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When Vin Scully began his broadcasting career, Connie Mack was managing the Philadelphia A's. How's that for for tying the game's history together?

The Blue Jays road trip continues with four games at Target Field in Minneapolis.

The Blue Jays like Target Field. They really like Target Field. They've gone 25-14 there since it opened in 2010. The Jays have been a better team (.498) than the Twins (.474) over that span, but they haven't been that much better. As it happens (and as an upcoming piece on Ballparks will confirm)† the Twins have a remarkable ability to derive very little benefit from the Home Field Advantage.

But they do have a pretty good team this season. They don't exactly have a comfortable lead atop the AL Central, but lead it they do. They were active at the deadline, adding exactly what they needed in starting pitcher Tyler Mahle and relievers Jorge Lopez and Michael Fulmer. A couple of former Jays, Aaron Sanchez and Joe Smith, were Designated for Assignment. The Twins can score runs - only the Yankees and Blue Jays score more often - but the rotation was down to four and the bullpen had been extremely shallow, with only Jhoan Duran pitching particularly well. Southpaw Devin Smeltzer came up in May and went 2-0, 1.50 in his first four starts - since then, he's gone 2-2, 5.58 and been optioned back to St.Paul. And the Jays will miss, again, their young ace Joe Ryan (8-4, 3.67) whom the Twins stole from Tampa Bay at last year's deadline in the Nelson Cruz deal.

Two regulars are out of the lineup and, remarkably, neither one is named Byron Buxton. This is Buxton's eighth season, and he's played more than 92 games exactly once. That was way back in 2017 when he was still far from becoming the hitter that he is today. Buxton and the little LH first baseman, Luis Arraez, are the leading lights of the team's attack. The lineup is missing C Ryan Jeffers and RF Max Kepler at the moment, and they haven't really found satisfactory fill-ins so far.

The Twins haven't yet announced their Friday starter, but that would be the day of Tyler Mahle's next start if he was still in Cincinnati, so I'm just going to hazard a guess. Likewise, the Jays haven't announced who fill Stripling's spot on Saturday, but one assumes that this is why Mitch White is on the team.

The Twins are in the Central Time Zone - tonight's game starts at 7:40 Toronto time, tomorrow's at 8:00, Saturday night at 7:00 and Sunday afternoon at 2;00

Matchups

Thu 4 Aug - Manoah (11-5, 2.43) vs Gray (6-3, 3.41)
Fri 5 Aug - Berrios (8-4, 4.96) vs Mahle ? (5-7, 4.40)
Sat 6 Aug - White† ? (1-2, 3.70) vs Bundy (6-5, 5.04)
Sun 7 Aug - Gausman (8-8, 3.06) vs Archer (2-5, 4.05)
Toronto at Minnesota, August 4-7 | 213 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#419065) #
Whit in CF right off the bat.
Gerry - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#419066) #
Merrifield, Bass and Pop active.

Collins, Gage and Peacock optioned.
Spifficus - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#419067) #
And Merrifield is vaccinated, so that's news.
Nigel - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#419069) #
Merrified in CF is a Blackadder level cunning plan to make us all stop complaining about Tapia in CF. Genius.
scottt - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#419070) #
It shows they're going to keep Zimmer for his late inning defense and running.
Probably the end of Jansen DHing.
Maybe the end of Kirk DHing as well.
Could be Springer's main spot for a while.

7:40 start? Not bad.
6 left bats against Manoah.
Teoscar grabs the cleanup spot from Bo.
Merrifield hits 8.
Biggio over Espinal today, hitting 9th.

Chapman hitting 7 has great numbers against Sonny Gray.


Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#419071) #
Merrifield says he'll be in Toronto "when the team is there" which suggests he got his shot(s) before the trade deadline. He says he knew this might be coming.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#419072) #
make us all stop complaining about Tapia

The complaining had kind of died down, hadn't it? Of course the guy hit .323 and slugged .528 in June/July, which is hard to complain about.
scottt - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#419073) #
Or only 5 left bats? I guess I can't count.

They are a bit short of catching, so Sanchez is the guy tonight.
They acquired Sandy Leon as the backup.

Buxton is the DH for this one.
Not unlike Springer, I think. He's their own glass canon.

Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#419074) #
Bo and Teoscar have flipped spots. The slumping Espinal gets a night off. Whose spot on the roster is Merrifield taking?
Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#419075) #
Never mind. I now see Gerry's post.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#419076) #
Springer's been just a little more durable than Buxton. He's played in 90% of his team's games since he came to the majors to stay (and more than Buxton every single season.) Buxton's only been able to play in 66% of his team's games since coming up for keeps in August 2015.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:20 PM EDT (#419078) #
Springer is DHing tonight. We'll see if he has recovered enough to be effective, but I have my doubts. The bar is high if he is taking PAs from Jansen and Kirk.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#419079) #
The bar is high if he is taking PAs from Jansen and Kirk.

I dunno. Kirk (who's catching tonight) is 3 for his last 21. Jansen is 2-24. The bar's not too high.
Joe - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#419080) #
I'd almost prefer Springer go on the IL for a couple of weeks, tbh. Maybe there's no short-term relief for what ails him (bone chips?), but his ground ball rate is worse than it's been for a long time, and his production shows it.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#419081) #
The primary goal should be to have Springer as healthy and productive as possible in the postseason. The teamís current decisions about resting or using Springer should reflect that goal.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#419082) #
I would definitely prefer him to go on the IL. He missed the All-Star game, and hasn't looked right since.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#419084) #
The secondary goal should be to keep him healthy in the longer-term. He is under contract for four more seasons!
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#419085) #
Manoah looks good; Springer not so much.
hypobole - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#419086) #
My guess for Springer is a bone spur. IL won't solve the issue. Surgery will, but that may cause him the rest of the season.
John Northey - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#419087) #
So, with Jackie Bradley Jr being released today do the Jays sign him for the minimum and dump Zimmer? Same type - defense and speed with horrid offense. But slightly less horrid than Zimmer. 58 OPS+ vs Zimmer's 29. Both are positive defensive WAR but negative offense. I'm more meh about it than I expected to be. But if they can IL Springer then might as well and see if he can be part of a mix-match in the OF.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#419088) #
It's not about solving the issue- it's letting the symptoms ease so that he can perform OK for whatever time he can.  It seemed to have been aggravated when he made those two throws from rightfield. 
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#419089) #
When the Jays bats go cold, they go really cold.
hypobole - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#419090) #
joe mentioned Springer hitting ground balls. Major league average is 42.9%. Our first 6 batters are all above that, from Kirk's 48.9% to Teoscar's 43.7%.
Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#419091) #
Anyone else sick of Jesse Pinkman? Or just me>
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#419092) #
Jesse Pinkman forced me to give up on watching Breaking Bad by season 1 episode 3.

Thankfully he wasn't in Better Call Saul (until last week) so he couldn't ruin the best TV series in history for me, too.
lexomatic - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#419093) #
Well I've had Sportsnet drop my cast twice surrounding the ball back to the mound. Always with cutting out during the dramatic moments.
lexomatic - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#419094) #
This is not a good development.
lexomatic - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#419095) #
And now bases loaded 2 outs just stops. Damn Rogers.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#419096) #
Watching Gray pitch is not fun. 
Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#419097) #
Thankfully he wasn't in Better Call Saul

Man oh man. Finding the Jesse Pinkman character annoying should not be a reason to not watch BB, especially on the heals of BCS where you get to enjoy the chronological continuity.

Hating on Aaron Paul for annoyingly hawking a gambling site is a whole other thing.

Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#419098) #
*heels
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#419099) #
Breaking Bad by season 1 episode 3.

The show doesn't get good until season 1 episode 7.

By the final season, it's as good as any TV has ever been.
hypobole - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#419100) #
Why do our hitters keep pounding the ball into the ground in crucial moments? Where is Dwayne Murphy?
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#419101) #
Thank you Hypobole Murphy!
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#419102) #
Teo carrying the team at the moment.
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#419103) #
he hit it that time but Bo is still hacking at everything.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#419104) #
Get the W for Mount Manoah.
Nigel - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#419105) #
Under discussed story - Vladdy has turned himself into one hell of a defender at 1B.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#419106) #
Yes! And how about those two plays by Chapman. Remember when the Jays tried Biggio at third base?
Spifficus - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#419107) #
No I don't, and you can't make me.

I don't recall ever seeing a 3B do everything so calm and confident, from picking 100mph short-hops to throwing at the 1B's chest every time. Heck, I was a bit shocked when that throw on the charging ball on the line nearly took Vlad off the bag. Of course, the next throw? Chest-high on the bag again.
whiterasta80 - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#419108) #
The Wire has something to say about Best show ever.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#419109) #
The Wire has something to say about Best show ever.

That's what it comes down to, I think. I think The Wire is Dickensian and Breaking Bad is Shakespearean. Dickens was pretty great, but Shakespeare's my guy.

By the way, that recent David Simon series - We Own This City - was really great.
Gerry - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#419110) #
Who is/was better, Chapman or Scott Rolen? I am not sure who I would pick.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#419111) #
Like brother, like brother? If Iím not mistaken, Yuli Gurriel (career .288/.332/.458 / wRC+ 115) once said that Lourdes was a better hitter than him.

In his career, Lourdes is now .289/.332/.478 / wRC+ 117. This year heís hitting .314/.367/.429 / wRC+ 125.
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#419112) #
I don't think Rolen had Chapman's range tbh.

and it's nice having vladdy in the 2-hole.
Nigel - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#419113) #
Itís really difficult to choose. I will say that Rolen probably made the play down the line with the long throw better than any Jay ever. Chapman is just so athletic.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#419114) #
Not often you see fans in the left stands jumping to get out of the way.
Spifficus - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#419115) #
That's funny, I was just going to say that Rolen seemed more athletic vs Chapman's smooth. I am watching a Rolen highlight reel, though, to refresh my memory.

I think I'll second option C: Don't Make Me Choose.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#419116) #
Chapman or Scott Rolen?

Geez, I don't know. Probably Rolen. I think. Maybe. He was near close to perfect. Just an amazing athlete for such an enormous person. But that's a really tough call.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#419117) #
I think that you can hit and run with Merrifield. 
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#419118) #
Chapman for me, for his all-around defensive ability. With the caveat that Rolen was 33-34 when he was with Toronto, whereas Chapman is only 29. So itís a bit of an apples and oranges comparison in that sense.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#419119) #
Rolen better on the ball in the hole; Chapman better coming in.  We didn't see Rolen until he was 33 (and he was still very good then). 

Rolen probably a smidge better, but Chapman is just a fabulous defender. 
Nigel - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#419120) #
As Magpie says, Rolen was incredibly athletic for an enormous man but I do think Chapman is more athletic (and much smaller). The defensive stats that have Chapman as average or just above average this year are broken.
dalimon5 - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#419121) #
Sopranos
Mare of Easttown
Homeland

Those are 3 of the best written shows.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#419122) #
For international espionage, Le Bureau tops Homeland.
Chuck - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#419124) #
Hatufim, the Israeli series upon which Homeland was based, also tops Homeland.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#419125) #
Other people have seen Le Bureau and Hatufim? Wow! And yes, really really good.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#419126) #
The first season of Homeland was pretty great.
Eephus - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#419127) #
I likewise would lean Rolen, though that might be pure young baseball fan nostalgia influencing the call. When he arrived I only knew the likes of Tony Batista, Eric Hinske or Troy Glaus (Glaus was actually pretty decent) manning the hot corner on a regular basis. Suddenly watching Rolen everyday was like dining at the best steak restaurant in town after a lifetime diet of various fast food burgers.

It's real close between them though, to be honest. Chapman seems a bit quicker on foot (shocker since he's younger as a Blue Jay than Rolen was) and has the superior arm I'd say... I mean I'm not sure I've ever seen any third baseman get the ball over to first with such true laser beam-like accuracy as Chapman. Rolen though was so technically sound and just remarkably fluid for a gigantic infielder... it seemed a miracle when anything (even rockets down the line) got past him. His initial read off the bat approached the level of clairvoyance.    
Eephus - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#419128) #
Alas, my knowledge of any of these TV shows is glaringly absent (beyond The Wire, which I watched over a decade ago. And it is pretty darn amazing)
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#419129) #
The Blue Jays had a lot of kind of partial third basemen, players with one elite feature but not all that much else. Gruber was so athletic. Glaus wasn't very mobile, but every single throw was just perfect, lasers on a perfect line at head height. And Tony Batista had the quickest hands - I've never seen anyone get rid of the ball quicker.

But Rolen and Chapman were/are both utterly complete. Everything about their defensive play is elite.
Magpie - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#419130) #
my knowledge of any of these TV shows is glaringly absent

Well, I used to work an overnight gig where I sat around for eight hours doing almost nothing, and I passed the time watching TV on my laptop. And because it had such crappy sound, I sought all those foreign shows because they had subtitles.
92-93 - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:46 AM EDT (#419131) #
Where can one watch Le Bureau and Hatufim in Canada?

Glaus was really good at charging in on the ball. I remembered him starting at SS for a few games, but forgot it was @ ATL in an effort to keep Hillenbrand/Overbay in the lineup. Sinking ships.
John Northey - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:18 AM EDT (#419132) #
Vlad has done well - FanGraphs has him at -3.5 for defense, but at 1B only 2 guys are ahead of him - Christian Walker (the only 1B with positive defensive), and Ryan Mountcastle (-2.4 in 70 fewer innings).

For OOA it goes Walker (11), Mountcastle (4), Vlad (3)
For DRS you get Walker (15), Vlad (6), CJ Cron & Josh Bell (3).

No matter how you cut it it seems Vlad is now one of the best defensive 1B in baseball at the moment. I thought it was mostly hype by broadcasters and hometown bias but the stats seem to put him as #2 or #3 in MLB, and maybe #1 in the AL (Walker is in Arizona). I love his doing the splits and he always seems to put 100% into it out there.

For a quick check, in 2021 he was 17th in Def (-12.1), 7th in rPM (4), 11th in DRS (2). FOr 2020's freak year he was 22nd (guys with 200+ innings) in Def (-4.1), 27th in DRS (-4). So no question we've seen a MASSIVE improvement each year from him.

For comparison here are the Def ranks for other positions for Jays (qualified only with Springer an exception)...
  • 2B: Espinal: 5.9 (3rd)
  • SS: Bo : 3.8 (14th)
  • 3B: Chapman: 1.6 (7th) - sounds way too low to me.
  • LF: Gurriel: -5.2 (10th)
  • CF: Springer: 0.0 (18th for guys with 400+ innigs)
  • RF: Teoscar: 0.0 (5th)
  • OF: Tapia: -6 DRS (52nd out of 57), his Def isn't listed on leaderboards but on his own page is -7.7 (yikes!) but his bat has improved so his overall fWAR is now up to 0.0. Took a killer hot streak but he finally reached replacement level.

So now what? We have a decent looking team at the moment. Merrifield is the new Swiss Army Knife of the team (taking Biggio's slot more or less) and will probably be in CF a LOT for the next week as Springer tries to keep playing despite being hurt (1-4 with a walk, a run and 2 RBI suggests it could work out and Kirk probably needs some rest with his current slump). A couple of interesting names on the waiver wire in Jackie Bradley Jr (probably an upgrade on Zimmer) and Didi Gregorius (a pure SS who hasn't hit since 2020 but used to be a 120 OPS+ guy - I suspect someone will give him a shot to play everyday despite his 60 OPS+ this year). If Bradley is willing to be a 5th OF he'd be nice but I doubt he would - odds are he'll wait for someone to offer him either an everyday position or at least a platoon type situation. Zimmer, on the other hand, appears to have accepted his 'play the 9th inning' role.
scottt - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 05:54 AM EDT (#419133) #
I'm not sold on Springer. His out at the fence looked better than his hit through the infield.
Guerrero's swing on his homerun was impressive. That was some bat speed.
Bichette awoke.
The ump was very stingy on the bottom of the plate and Polanco walked on 2 balls to score.
Garcia also walked a guy on 2 balls.

Megil is their long guy and had an ERA under 2. (up to 2.92).
I think he's in the low leverage bucket because he's a rookie.
He's averaged a little over 4 outs per outing, not unlike Thornton.
This is what I was talking about regarding the 1 inning per reliever versus having some guys who can give you 6 outs. Megil having a scoreless inning doesn't improve his odd when he comes back for a second one. Duffey is their lowest middle reliever. They didn't care how many pitches he threw. (44)

Both team used 3 relievers. Mayza was stingy again with 8 pitches. Garcia threw 20 against the middle of the order. It seems unfortunate to have to use him here. Bass threw 18. Might want to sit all 3 today. Might not see Megil and Duffey again in this series, depending on what happens on Sunday.

scottt - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 06:14 AM EDT (#419134) #
Merriffield was a 27 year old rookie. He played at the university of South Carolina. He signed a club friendly contract but it was more about guaranteed money than the love of baseball.  He made 1M his last pre-arb year than 5M, 6.7M and 7M during his arb years. He's only making 2.75M next year--plus a 500K buyout, which would have been his free agency year.

I don't known who would be a good comp, but Pillar for example, was a 24 year old rookie and made considerably less during his years of control.

Chuck - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 06:31 AM EDT (#419135) #
Where can one watch Le Bureau and Hatufim in Canada?

I have not seen either available on streaming services so it was DVDs for me. Some library systems have robust DVD collections.

scottt - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 07:24 AM EDT (#419136) #
Le Bureau des Legendes is on the French (France) channel of the cable. (Probably doesn't help you.)

greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:02 AM EDT (#419138) #
Apple TV
lexomatic - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#419142) #
<br>I am pissed the offense exploded after I got booted from Sportsnet app for the last time and gave up following the game.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#419144) #
In April I predicted Manoah would win the Cy Young Award this year. But it's going to be tough to beat 39-year-old Verlander (15-3, 1.73). Imagine if the Jays had landed him in the off-season. Gausman, Ohtani and McClanahan are some other AL SPs having very good seasons.
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#419145) #
Despite the bizarrely low defensive ratings for Chapman, both DRS (3rd of 30) and FG (5th of 30) agree with the overall eye test - the Jays are a very good defensive team.

Only uglyone commented on my post in the other thread, but Bo's now at 107 wRC+ vs righthanders this year, almost exactly in line with his previous seasons, despite an increase in his K's.

Positive debut for Merrifield, although his 1st hit looked more like an error to me. If he's able to return with the team to Toronto on the 11th, how long ago would he have had to get vaxxed? Thought it was 14 days.



lexomatic - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#419146) #
Only uglyone commented on my post in the other thread, but Bo's now at 107 wRC+ vs righthanders this year, almost exactly in line with his previous seasons, despite an increase in his K's.

I wonder how much of this season has been related to the news about his dad becoming public? Would definitely explain extra issues beyond change in offense league wide.

Despite the bizarrely low defensive ratings for Chapman, both DRS (3rd of 30) and FG (5th of 30) agree with the overall eye test - the Jays are a very good defensive team.

I said it before, I think the shift is really impacting Chapmans individual defensive ratings, but not team defense, so it's good there's some evidence to support that.
92-93 - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#419147) #
Officially it is indeed 14 days, and it would be odd if Merrifield got vaccinated before he was traded to the Jays. Perhaps he meant that he will join the team during the homestand, or his Paint skills are on point.

Verlander will be a free agent this offseason. If Scherzer got 3/130, is Verlander worth 50MM on a one year deal?
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#419148) #
I wonder how much of this season has been related to the news about his dad becoming public?

I find it beyond strange no reputable news sites picked up on this, because it would be a big deal if true. Is this supposed Dante jr Instagram account really his?
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#419149) #
is Verlander worth 50MM on a one year deal?

Verlander turns 40 in February.  There has been precisely one pitcher in major league history who has given good value on that kind of contract at age 40- Randy Johnson.  A few pitchers have been OK at that price point- Nolan Ryan, John Smoltz, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn. Justin Verlander is great, but he's not Randy Johnson.  50MM is high, but 45MM is within reason.  We'll see how he does the rest of the year and in the playoffs.  I think the Jays will rough him up if they face him...
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#419150) #
Joe Posnanski wrote this column in 1995.  Dante Bichette is named, along with Robert Parish and Bobby Cox.  I do not know how I did hear about this at the time (or worse yet, have forgotten).
Bid - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#419151) #
Late to the TV show party...

The three Davids: Milch, Simon, Chase...

Deadwood, The Wire, The Sopranos.
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#419152) #
See, that's my point. The assault by Dante on his wife, at a time when domestic abuse was largely swept under the rug, was reported by Posnanski in the Tribune. I found it in a 1995 SI article.

But this one, at a time when the public and media acknowledge the serious nature of such allegations seems to be only reported on junk websites, i.e. clickbait with no fact-checking. Makes no sense if true.
jerjapan - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#419153) #
Fleabag is the best written show I've seen in a few years now. 
lexomatic - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#419154) #
I wouldn't have read a US paper in the 90s, so I'm not surprised it didn't come up until this year. Though not great on Toronto media for covering for Bobby Cox, even though he was gone.
But I think it was mostly snippets like this that didn't explain the whole horror of the abuse until the big revelation this year.
There's always been a lot of cover for covering up in pro sports. Starts with amateur sports (hi, Hockey Canada, St. Mike's, etc., all those rape cases vs college athletes where nothing happens).
It's a systemic thing, and people with money and power are too interested in maintaining money and power over doing the right thing.
Current Blue Jays admin has been consistent - get rid of the people, but also don't share reasons. So there's doing the right thing, but also maintaining cover. That's last part is complicated, and who knows who asked for stuff to be quiet etc.
I feel good that current management won't look past those issues for staffing/ signing if they are aware of them. But maybe that's optimistic because they are better than many orgs.
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#419156) #
The three Davids: Milch, Simon, Chase...

Hey, what about Larry?

Haven't seen the last few seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I thought it was great. Although that may be because I turn into a Susie Green clone when I watch the Jays.
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#419157) #
I assume you guys are all talking about what you think the best shows are AFTER the undisputed #1 Better Call Saul, of course.
johnny was - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#419158) #
I would make a case that For All Mankind on Apple TV has quietly become the best current TV drama after BCS. It's an alternative history of the space race starting in the 1960s that explores a number of familiar social issues (the glass ceiling, race, gay rights, blowback against environmentalism, etc.) via fictional characters.
Leaside Cowboy - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#419159) #
Bryan Cranston presented Vin Scully the lifetime achievement honours at the 2017 ESPY awards.
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#419160) #
I'm not sure how much lateral range Vladdy has - that is a very hard thing to judge from TV alone - but in all other respects I think Vladdy has become an outstanding defensive 1B. Perhaps the best the Jays have ever had at scooping balls in the dirt.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#419162) #
John Olerud is the gold standard for Blue Jay first basemen defensively.  Vlad Jr. does a bunch of things very well- receiving throws (including picking), throwing on the 3-6-3 and occasionally for other purposes, ranging into the 3-4 hole. 

I've never seen Better Call Saul.  Maybe I should give it a try.
Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#419163) #
Perhaps the best the Jays have ever had at scooping balls in the dirt.

We actually kept track of that back in the day, and it turned out that Lyle Overbay was about as good as it gets. Great arm, too.

I generally put The Wire and Breaking Bad at the top of my mountain (waiting for the final season of Better Call Saul to conclude, so I can just inhale it all, so don't tell me what happens to Kim!). But I feel a shoutout to The Leftovers is needed. And Mr Robot. And... oh, stop me now.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#419164) #

But this one, at a time when the public and media acknowledge the serious nature of such allegations seems to be only reported on junk websites, i.e. clickbait with no fact-checking. Makes no sense if true.

It's messy.  Dante Bichette Sr. is no longer with the Blue Jays.  Dante Bichette Jr.  is out of baseball and making music.  Bo Bichette is very much in baseball.  Here's an interesting 2011 interview with his mother Mariana, who grew up in Brazil and whose parents were Brazilian and Chinese. 


hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#419165) #
Mike, it's not messy. If true, it would be news. Why wouldn't the Toronto Star (among a myriad of other trustworthy news sites) have reported Bichette jr's allegations?
Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#419166) #
I would make a case that For All Mankind on Apple TV has quietly become the best current TV drama after [Better Call Saul].

I've just started it - so far, so good - but I'm still going to bang a drum on behalf of Succession. I thought I might have the same issues with it that I always had with The Sopranos (the characters are all so utterly loathsome that it's impossible to care about them), but perhaps entitled rich jerks aren't as troublesome as thugs and killers. And so much of the show is about these awful people getting messed over so thoroughly (by the other awful people) that there's a deeply disturbing pleasure in watching them suffer.
92-93 - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#419167) #
What exactly is the news? It was reported long ago what Dante Bichette did. Should the Toronto Star be asking Bo Bichette what he thinks about his dad striking his pregnant mother 30 years ago?
Chuck - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#419168) #
but I'm still going to bang a drum on behalf of Succession

Succession denies the viewer an entry point, a sympathetic character to whom we can hitch our wagon. All the characters tease you with small amounts of humanity, almost enough to sucker you into their camp, but that only ever lasts a brief time. All that's left is the schadenfreude of enjoying the awful treating the awful awfully. Probably like a family weekend at the Trumps'.

Chuck - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#419169) #
And because this thread has taken a TV-themed turn, let me plug the little seen, but critically celebrated, Rectify. Some will recall the showrunner, Ray McKinnon, as the reverend in Deadwood.
Michael - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#419170) #
Put me in the camp of the best ever show being The Wire.

There have been a lot of good recent shows too (not necessarily part of the "best ever" conversation), I'd recommend to all The Expanse (which probably just had its final season this past year), Arcane (one season so far), and the Third and most recent season The Orville was really surprisingly very strong.

And on the movie front, I was late to see it when I went Wednesday night but Everything Everywhere All At Once is definitely worth seeing.

On the baseball side I'm glad that Manoah being drilled on another comebacker only seemed to effect him for a couple of batters and that he is still the dependable ace starter we need.
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#419171) #
Wow that is very weird, I very recently described watching Succession like watching a Trump family dinner party:) It's a very well done show but totally unwatchable for me.
Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#419174) #
this thread has taken a TV-themed turn

Passing the time while we wait for first pitch... I'm taking a break from the reams of ballpark data I've been reviewing... schadenfreude is exactly the pleasure that Succession provides, thank you Chuck! I probably enjoy that too much, I suppose. And the quality of the performances. I always meant to check out Rectify, forgot to do so, it might be tricky now.

There seems to be an unspoken assumption that the only shows worth consideration are hour long dramas. Half hour shows do tend to be comedies of some sort, not that comedy isn't a high art itself.
vw_fan17 - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#419175) #
Re: all the TV stuff.. Heard all the reviews of Breaking Bad - couldn't get past the bathtub scene in EP 2 or 3. Assumed BCS was more of the same.

Keep meaning to watch The Wire at some point.
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#419177) #
yeah The Wire and The Sopranos are obviously right up at the top too. But Better Call Saul is really a magnificent work of art and a departure from pretty much any other show, including Breaking Bad. I don't really have any problem putting BCS right up at the top it's so unique and awesome and rich in every possible way.

And despite the suckage that came after they ran out of Martin's material, GoT has at least 5 seasons of awesomeness that gets in GOAT territory too. Many other "GOAT" shows didn't have a run of quality that long.

Succession is fun as hell. The Boys is great fun too.

Expanse is a good one but man the acting has some tough stretches.

and of course Stranger Things. even this season 4 i'm halfway through is way better than I expected.



Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#419178) #
A great actor is usually enough to draw me in, and I'd probably watch Brian Cox doing infomercials (we used to say "read the phone book," I'm looking for a substitute phrase!)

Stanger Things was more fun than I expected - the kids make it work, they're really good. Which reminds me - Reservation Dogs is back.
mathesond - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#419179) #
I recently started watching Mythic Quest (on Apple), and have been pleasantly surprised.
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#419180) #
The news is that a couple of weeks ago "Dante jr" claimed his father regularly abused him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Torontobluejays/comments/w62l14/dante_bichette_jr_brother_of_bo_opens_up_about/

Posters here mentioned this at that time, not the 30 yr old abuse. If Dante jr regularly got bloodied protecting Bo, some legit site would have delved into the accusations is what I'm saying.
Hodgie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#419190) #
Not quite in the GOAT pantheon, but Broadchurch is a fantastic, seemingly little-known show this side of the pond - David Tennant and Olivia Coleman are brilliant.
scottt - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#419192) #
Today's a late 8:10 start. (I drunk extra coffee.)

Lineups are not up yet, but Tapia is 4 for 10 against Mahle and Merri is 2 for 3.
Springer has great numbers against the Saturday starter.

AWeb - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#419193) #
I don't think news sites would be all over the Bichette family problems...there are many, many stories of abuse and misbehaviour around pro sports and it's rare for one to break through. In Canada, in particular, the massive scandal around hockey Canada has likely occupied the few reporters who would touch a story like this one.

I do think the abuse making the news could put Bichette off his game...clearly close to his father, likely abused himself in some manner. Not around to support his mother/brother/father (whoever he would side with). Rough.
hypobole - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#419194) #
How about even 1 legit news site. Find 1.

Bo is playing defence better than he ever has. He's hitting RHP's about about the same as he has in the past. Lefties, who he mashed in the past, have killed him this year, partly swing and miss, partly horrible BABIP luck.
scottt - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#419195) #
Springer on the bench.

Merri leading
Gurriel hitting 3rd DH
Teoscar still cleanup
Jansen hitting 7th
Tapia 8th
Espinal 9th.

Looks close to optimal offense/defense.

Paul D - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#419198) #
There are some fantastic shows about villains like BCSw, Breaking Bad, The Shield, The Wire..

But if you want to laugh, I think you should leave and Nathan for You are both brilliant

I also really liked Severance
Petey Baseball - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#419199) #
The Wire is Dickensian, perhaps, but it was always intended partially as a modern twist on a Greek tragedy.

The politics/police politics stuff in The Wire was pretty much a copy of the great Kubrick film Paths of Glory.

The scenes of the drug trade were very much taken from Clockers by Richard Price.

This is not to disparage the masterpiece, David Simon is very open about where he stole from.

See if the Jays can get the division lead under 10 games
after tonight.

Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#419201) #
That was a good baserunning risk by Hernandez.  If you never get thrown out, you're being too cautious. 
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#419202) #
Sorry but that was bad base running by Hernandez (with no outs).
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#419203) #
I canít really agree Mike - but part of my problem is that he didnít run hard to first. He then turned it on after he saw the CF had cut it off.
Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#419204) #
I was shocked that they got him. Perfect defensive play.
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#419205) #
It was a good throw but watch Hernandezís running. I think you will be less impressed with the whole thing.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#419206) #
I did watch, Nigel.  I thought that he ran hard straight out of the box.  Maybe I missed something. 
Magpie - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#419207) #
Well, that went to hell in a hurry.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#419208) #
Looks like Berrios is breaking bad (again).
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#419209) #
Any kind of breaking would have been good. 
Nigel - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#419210) #
Fair enough Mike. Iíve watched it three times now. I see him running about 75% to 1B, he rounds 1B, sees the CF cut the ball off, and then he goes full out. But itís all irrelevant with this imbalance in starters.
Eephus - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#419211) #
Iíll wear this one guys. Got home and started watching just an inning ago when it was 0-0 and started licking my lips at Mahleís then elevated pitch count. Needless to say, things have gone poorly since.
Eephus - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#419212) #
Berriosí Jekyl and Hyde act is very strange. Nights like tonight (the Hyde nights) he seems to get squeezed a lot, like that last AB to LeonÖ but then his problem is the opposite of Kikuchiís. Berrios was throwing meatballs down the middle and he might honestly be fortunate to escape with only the five runs allowed (depending on how Richards does to bail him out)
lexomatic - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#419213) #
Though there was a nasty pitch right after the HR to Gordon. But yeah, Robo Umps can't come soon enough. 
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#419215) #
The Jays were in a bind at the trade deadline. They really could have used someone like Castillo to help create a more formidable front three in the rotation. But they didnít have the trade chips to make it happen. Iím glad the team didnít sell low on Moreno or Tiedemann, but Berrios is going to get crushed in the postseason if he pitches like this.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#419216) #
Whoa. Vladdy is good.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#419217) #
Espinal looked a lot better, even striking out.  More coming.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#419218) #
Pop looked pretty good. Nice debut.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#419219) #
Bichette got a good pitch to hit leading off this inning, but he fouled it off. Then struck out on a slider out of the zone. Frustrating in a one-run game.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#419220) #
I would not have used Pop for more than one inning after a successful scoreless inning in his debut.
Eephus - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#419221) #
Phelps does have a bit of nonchalance when heís out there, especially in a tough spot doesnít he? Never noticed it before this season (although he has previously only pitched a couple dozen innings as a Jay due to separate circumstances of course). Serious veteran moxie.
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#419222) #
oh boy was I ready to to pounce on Tapia there.

he must have felt it.
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#419223) #
Who needs Soto or Happ?
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#419224) #
I love love love love that inning. those were playoffs quality at bats.
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#419225) #
this sport is good sometimes.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#419226) #
Great game, huh?
greenfrog - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#419227) #
I love Garciaís determination in that inning. And the way he picked up his teammate (Biggio).
Four Seamer - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:33 PM EDT (#419228) #
Those were some bush league ABs from Hernandez and Bichette.
uglyone - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#419229) #
oh Danny boy...
Four Seamer - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#419230) #
And some bush league D in the bottom of the 10th.
Mike Green - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#419231) #
Painful ending, but a great game. 
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 12:44 AM EDT (#419232) #
Indeed.

Meanwhile, the Yankees bullpen blows another one. And the Dodgers don't seem too shaken by the upgrades in San Diego.
92-93 - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 02:25 AM EDT (#419233) #
Ironic that the Jays lost tonightís game because the Twins were aggressive on Chapman in the bottom of the 10th while the Jays were conservative on the 1 out single in the top half of the inning.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 04:07 AM EDT (#419235) #
the Jays were conservative on the 1 out single in the top half of the inning.

That wasn't conservative. It was a no-brainer. He'd have been out by at least ten feet if he tried to score. He had no jump at all - he had to wait and make sure the ball cleared the infield.
scottt - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 06:49 AM EDT (#419236) #
The home/road splits for Berrios continue.

Apart from Vladdy taking his walk, the ABs in the 10th were underwhelming.
Overtime on the road, you play for 2. I get it, but I sense that game wasn't heading into the 11th and I called it a night.

lexomatic - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#419237) #
<br>ibstopped watching almost immediately, turned it on for the hr to make it 5-0, then sportsnet quit.
Looking status the boxscore I see Romano with a K but no IP. Was there a mid AB switch?
Mike Green - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 07:59 AM EDT (#419238) #
Nope. Romano's third strike was in the dirt and the batter reached (Jansen blocked the ball and it rolled up the first base line and...- never mind, watch the play, there was a lot going on)
Gerry - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 08:01 AM EDT (#419239) #
Romano got the strikeout but the batter reached on the Jansen error on the throw to first.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#419241) #
Last night's game was fascinating and a couple of things stuck with me, which I will write about after the market. The title of my Game Report will be "Under Pressure- decision-making in motion and a partial defense for Raimel Tapia". /teaser
hypobole - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#419245) #
Shouldn't have mentioned yesterday how good the Jays have been defensively lately.

Chapman has been great lately but that was a brutal short hop he gave Danny in the 10th.

Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#419246) #
that was a brutal short hop he gave Danny in the 10th.

It was not an easy play for Chapman - he had to rush because the runner was off on contact, and the ball took him a few steps in the wrong direction - but you have to get lucky to catch a throw like that cleanly.

The game story I saw referred to two "miscues" by Jansen. Give the guy a break! There was the short hop from Chapman, and before that Vlad not giving him a good lane to throw to first on the third strike in the dirt (as Joseph - an ex-catcher, natch - noted immediately after the game.)
92-93 - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#419249) #
It absolutely was conservative base-running by Biggio, Arraez was nowhere near catching the ball. Then the throw home came way up the first base line. An aggressive-running Biggio would have easily scored on the play.
92-93 - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#419251) #
At least they came back down from 5-0. It would be great to see these guys morph into the 2015 club, where any early deficit felt like a small hill to climb. They have the talent to make the Yankees sweat in September, assuming the rotation stays healthy and Manoah isnít too limited down the stretch.

It was pretty telling that Springer either wasnít available to pinch hit last night or he was considered a lesser option than Merrifield, Tapia, Jansen, and Biggio. He probably needs a couple weeks off.
lexomatic - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#419257) #
<br>springer DL retroactive to 5th. Shame he wasn't DLd a few da6s ago when we all knew it was necessary.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#419258) #
Lopez active to replace him, and Thornton optioned back to Buffalo to clear a spot for White.
Glevin - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#419262) #
Bo looks like he's just guessing on every swing and usually he's guessing "74 MPH screwball".
John Northey - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#419263) #
Well, he did guess right his last AB. Now if a few other guys would just start guessing that.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#419264) #
Bichette almost always looks terrible when he makes an out, and just like everybody else, he makes an out more often than he succeeds. It's just the way he hits. He's hit better than Kirk, Jansen, Espinal, Springer, Biggio these last few weeks. But you'd never know it.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#419265) #
Polanco doesn't have nearly as large a platoon split as they're suggesting. Over his career, it's not a big deal at all.
Hodgie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#419266) #
The baseball gods are not being very kind to the Blue Jays so far tonight.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#419267) #
And they're not getting kinder.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#419269) #
Recovery time for a dislocated shoulder varies from case to case, but the Blue Jays will be very lucky if Mayza can play again this year.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#419270) #
That was a strange decision.
Petey Baseball - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#419271) #
I am really looking forward to hearing the thought process behind Tapia pinch hitting for Merrifield.
Gerry - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#419272) #
Just wondering....does Bo ever dive? Has he made plays like Correa did earlier in the game where he dived and popped up to make the throw?

I can't remember any right now.
hypobole - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#419273) #
I am really looking forward to hearing the thought process behind Tapia pinch hitting for Merrifield.

From the Monty Burns school of managing "It's called playing the percentages."
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#419274) #
I assume it was about getting the platoon advantage - what else could it be? Tapia had never faced Duran before, Whitfield had faced him five times and got a base hit against him the night before. I dunno.
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#419275) #
does Bo ever dive?

It's not his go-to move - he's more likely to make a big lunge - but I found a YouTube video of defensive highlights, and there are indeed a few diving plays, beginning at 2:03!
Magpie - Saturday, August 06 2022 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#419276) #
Jordan Montgomery and three relievers toss a two-hit shutout, Yankees lose 1-0. Karma!
scottt - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:58 AM EDT (#419277) #
I've been surprised by Merrifield taking lots of pitches down the pipes and striking out a lot, but he's gotten his hits.

Mayza was used a lot, so this will hurt.

Nigel - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#419278) #
I think it was fairly predictable that Mayza would get hurt. He was the player without an obvious replacement on the roster and they didnít find one at the deadline. This is what the baseball gods do - they are spiteful and punish those who spit into the wind.
Mike Green - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#419282) #
Tapia gets the start today in CF against Archer with Merrifield on the bench.  Espinal is at second base while Biggio plays first to give Guerrero Jr. a DH day.  Kirk catches.

It appears that we will be seeing a rotation of sorts at least while Springer is out.  It will be pretty straightforward when facing a LHP, but facing a RHP, I anticipate that there will be a lot of moving around.  Merrifield will probably play 2/3 to 3/4 of the time. 
hypobole - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#419283) #
Guessing Atkins is asking Jake McGee's agent if McGee has any interest in Buffalo.
krose - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#419285) #
Real good at bat by Tapia. Best I can remember seeing from him.
Mike Green - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#419286) #
They post a little stat bit on the screen showing Kirk is 0 for his last 17 with 6 walks and 2 Ks.  The W/K tells you that it's not your typical cold streak. 
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#419287) #
[Mayza] was the player without an obvious replacement on the roster

Of the six non-closer relievers on the roster with a significant track record - Mayza, Garcia, Phelps, Cimber, Bass, Richards - Mayza, as you would expect is the one with the biggest platoon split. The toughest on LH batters, the least effective against RH batters. Garcia is the one with the smallest platoon split, suitable against all kinds of hitters.

Career vs LH batters:
  	   G	 PA    AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR   BB   SO  BAVG   OBP   SLG   OPS 																	  
Mayza 193 340 312 32 62 11 1 7 24 87 .199 .263 .308 .570
Garcia 230 412 375 50 78 16 2 20 28 91 .208 .267 .421 .688
Richards 150 761 663 78 151 22 7 23 83 179 .228 .315 .386 .701
Phelps 308 1349 1182 162 290 51 9 42 137 311 .245 .330 .410 .740
Bass 302 906 809 129 213 44 6 27 81 152 .263 .332 .433 .765
Cimber 201 335 288 42 70 23 4 8 36 78 .243 .337 .434 .771

And against RH batters:
            G   PA    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR   BB  SO  BAVG   OBP  SLG    OPS
                                                                   
Garcia    269   676   620   73  131  24   2  23   35  191 .211  .263  .368  .630
Cimber    269   715   663   87  170  25   4  10   28  114 .256  .297  .351  .649
Bass    322 1109  1001  127  233  44   8  23   90  219 .233  .297  .362  .658
Phelps    331  1463  1303  141  316  43   8  27  127  332 .243  .314  .350  .664
Richards  153   951   849  124  220  47   3  38   82  235 .259  .327  .456  .783
Mayza    193   462   410   65  110  23   1  16   42  119 .268  .339  .446  .785
Richards has a  very clear reverse split - he's tougher on LH batters. (He and Mayza have been roughly the same against RH batters, but Mayza's been much tougher than everybody else against LH batters.)
Mike Green - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#419288) #
I don't know why you would pull Gausman here.  You keep him in the blowout to get an opportunity for the win, but here, when it really matters, he's gone after 84 pitches (fewer than in the blowout) working on a shutout.
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#419289) #
I imagine he's thinking - he pitched 8 innings last time, and I've got the three guys I want - Bass, Garcia, Romano - each lined up for a clean inning. And I Have a Quick Hook!
92-93 - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#419290) #
It isn't even a particularly hot day at Target Field, and the bullpen has been thrown a lot of the pitches the last 3 games. 7-8-9 due up, they were 0/6 against Gausman.
92-93 - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#419291) #
That would make 3 appearances in 4 days for Bass and Garcia, rendering them both down or tired for tomorrow's game. Gotta ask for more from your SP.
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#419292) #
I can definitely see why he might want Garcia for the top of the order - Garcia is the best guy standing against LH batters. But I would have been more than fine with one more from Gausman.
Hodgie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#419294) #
Extra innings in part due to a balk and an HBP is an annoying development.
Polite Nate - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#419295) #
I'm surprised they overturned that, but if that didn't count as blocking the plate then the rule would be meaningless.
Mike Green - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#419296) #
That was close.  I thought that Sanchez dropped the leg before he had the ball, and that the overturning was reasonable given the rule. 

Miranda is a heckuva ballplayer. 
Chuck - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#419297) #
The folks at Mensa will not be reaching out to Kepler.
krose - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#419298) #
Gurriel doesnít always make good, quick decisions on the basepaths.
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#419299) #
That was intense, as the Repo Man says.
Mike Green - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#419300) #
Thanks for the shoutout, krose. And yes, Gurriel Jr. does sometimes make strange decisions both on the basepaths and also in the field.


Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#419301) #
Gurriel often seems to think he runs faster than he actually does.

I was reminded of Jim Rice today - it's the 50th anniversary of the day he jumped into the stands and literally saved a kid's life - and it occurred to me that our Vladdy is basically Jim Rice with (much) superior plate discipline.
greenfrog - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#419302) #
I didnít watch this one, but based on the boxscore and the last couple of games of the series, this was an important win for the team.
uglyone - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#419304) #
Didnt watch....why was Gausman pulled on 84 pitches while cruising?
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#419305) #
We were all wondering that very thing!
scottt - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#419306) #
Romano wasn't great with a runner on first.
The slide step seems to impact his ability to locate the slider.
Need to work on that one some more.
 
The win is the important thing. Gaus was great even if he didn't get the W.

Gage could be a lefty option, but for now, they probably need Thornton to provide depth.


Michael - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:20 PM EDT (#419307) #
I'm glad they overturned the ruling at the plate both because it meant the Jays won and also because it protected the rule.

There were at least two problems with the way the catcher played that ball:

1. He setup before the throw was even coming with no lane to the plate (a no no by the rule).

2. While the throw was to him in an area where he'd (probably) have to be giving no lane to field it, he (probably) didn't need to drop the leg to fully cement the block in advance of getting the ball.

From the meta processing, as long as you are going to have the rule in the first place, you can't let fielding like that be rewarded with an out or else you'll be back to most plays being collisions.

Also count me in the crew that live while watching the game would absolutely not have pulled Gausman after 6. He was averaging 14 pitches an inning right on and seemed as effective in the 6th as any earlier and was due to face the end of the order (7/8/9) so getting him to pitch the 7th and leaving fewer innings to the bullpen would make sense. When he was on 70 innings after 5 I was trying to figure out where I'd want him after 7 innings to pitch the 8th and I figured, if it were me, if he seemed effective and was at or under 90 pitches after 7 I'd let him pitch the 8th (or at a minimum start it), but certainly at 84 I'd let him pitch the 7th (and he'd still be on pace to finish 7 on less than 100 pitchers).

Also, Archer had pretty much the worse follow through of a pitcher I've ever seen. It seemed like every other pitch he was possibly injured with the falling down and complete lose of balance on his delivery. That he was still somewhat effective was I think largely due to the umpire giving a lot of questionable calls of balls as strikes. There was only one walk in the game (the intentional walk to Vlad in extras), but there were several guys that were thrown 4 balls with a couple of them called as strikes. Bring on the roboumps!
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#419308) #
Rocco, as you can imagine, is not happy. Post-game, he described the call as "ch*ck*nsh*t" and expanded on his views:

It's one of the worst moments I think we've seen of umpiring, in any game I've ever been a part of in baseball. I think it was pathetic.

I'd be pretty mad myself.
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#419309) #
Meanwhile, the Cardinals roughed up Frankie Montas for six runs in three innings, and they just scored another three on Scott Effross. The lead could be down to single digits by the end of the day.
Chuck - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#419310) #
Do yourselves a favour and flip over to the Mets game.
mathesond - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#419311) #
Oof, Chuck, that was a heckuva jinx :)
Chuck - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#419312) #
I stepped in it real good.
mathesond - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#419313) #
I did have to laugh - I'm streaming music through the TV, so went to gameday to see what was happening. Just as I was scrolling through the boxscore to see DeGrom's no hits, 1 walk, and 12Ks, Swanson homered.
Chuck - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#419314) #
It was no hits, no walks, and 12Ks when I summoned the alert. My days as town crier may be over.
Magpie - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#419315) #
It's possible though that no team improved itself as much at the deadline as the Mets did. Just by activating That Guy.
Gerry - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#419316) #
Originally I thought it was a 50/50 call for that play at the plate. But after the game Caleb Joseph was saying that Sanchez should not have setup over the plate like he did as now catchers generally receive the ball in front of the plate and swipe the runner.

There was a similar play in the Baltimore game today with the same result.
DavidtheDeuce - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 07:19 PM EDT (#419317) #
Great win today. Bo with a clutch bullet toss to Biggio to finish the game.
John Northey - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#419318) #
Say what you will, but these guys are not boring. Blowing the lead, scoring via a challenge, scary bottom of the 10th. Keeps you watching.

Hypobole I suspect is right - the Jays should be checking in on Jake McGee about now. Last year he was lights out - 8.7 K/9 vs 1.5 BB/9 over 59 2/3 IP 153 ERA+. This year he has stunk with a 60 ERA+ 2.3 BB/9 (not bad) vs 5.0 K/9. As a LHP he'd be nice in the pen if the problems are more fluke than permanent. I figure the Jays have him fully evaluated by both scouts and stats. Certainly has the potential of being ideal as generally he has been a very effective left handed reliever. Problem being who do you drop? Thornton is the obvious choice but the Jays need a long man tomorrow for sure (Kikuchi pitching).
Kasi - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#419324) #
At least our weekend went better than SDs. They get all excited about getting Soto and such only to be wiped out by the dodgers. Still some time to salvage a single game from the series today.
92-93 - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#419325) #
It's nice having the mandated 4-man bench without the unnecessary 3rd C. It allowed Schneider to bring Zimmer into the game in the 7th inning for defense, even though there was a decent chance Tapia's spot would come back up in the order. With Espinal, Biggio, and Merrifield covering 2B and Lopez on the bench there's a lot of versatility and flexibility to make moves. They can add Moreno to the mix in a few weeks and have the whole diamond well covered.
99BlueJaysWay - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#419326) #
It was interesting listening to the post-game interviews. I was surprised the call was overturned, because Merrifield could have gone wider to escape the tag. He said he went straight into the plate because he thought Sanchez was blocking the plate.

I know the catcher has to give the runner a lane, but until today I thought the catcher chooses what to offer. I guess thatís incorrect after reading the rationale and the players talk about it. The runner chooses where they want to slide and the catcher canít impede the runner in any way until he has possession of the ball. When you hear the Twins talk about it, they clearly believed that the catcher chooses what lane to offer, so I can understand why youíd be upset if thatís your understanding of the rule.
John Northey - Sunday, August 07 2022 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#419327) #
Agreed 92-93. Today showed the value of only having 2 catchers. Generally I felt it was a good idea to have a 3rd as the last man on the bench rarely played or had much purpose but now with so many who can play all over the place - Biggio, Lopez, Merrifield, Espinal can all cover an assortment of positions while Zimmer & Tapia can cover LF/CF/RF as needed. Of note: despite being in the minors most of the season and only having 60 PA Moreno has twice as many hits as Zimmer (86 PA) although Zimmer has more extra base hits (4 doubles, 2 HR vs 1 double). Each player has a purpose on this roster now which is good to see.

Of note for 2023: Lopez will still have an option, as will Thornton, Pop, Pearson. I think Merryweather's bonus option will still be in effect as he was in the minors on rehab not option IIRC (I could be wrong). Saucedo also will have one left. Collins won't (so I expect him to be let go once the season is over), Capra and Moreno will still have options left. Hatch, Kay, Peacock, Griffen all will still have options left too. But White and Casey Lawrence won't.

How the Jays handle their 40 man this winter will be interesting. I don't think it is a super crunch yet, but choices will be hard. Just like the 26 man roster will be. If they make the playoffs (and odds are very good, up by 2 on Tampa & Seattle for the top wild card, up by 4 on Baltimore & Cleveland for a wild card of any kind, ChiSox are 5 back, Red Sox 7 behind the Jays. Everyone else is too far back to worry (12+ games behind are Texas, LAA, KC, Detroit, and poor Oakland 19 1/2 behind the Jays). Jays are now 9 1/2 behind the Yankees for the AL East title so not 100% out of reach - very hard to catch them but stranger things have happened.

First 3 of 15 vs Baltimore starting tomorrow. Kikuchi going (gulp) so the pen better be ready for at least 5 innings of work. Manoah against a guy with an ERA over 6 for game 2, and Berrios for game 3 (on the road so the pen again better be ready).

Weird stat of the day - quality starts by Jays - Manoah 17, Gausman 12, Berrios 11, Kikuchi & Stripling 3 each. Ryu had 1. Who'd have thought before today that Gausman ERA+ 129 would've had as many QS as Berrios ERA+ 76. Baseball is a funny game.
scottt - Monday, August 08 2022 @ 06:20 AM EDT (#419328) #
Runners go wider when the catcher is in front of the plate so they can slide under the tag while out of reach.
There's no point in sliding wide when the plate is blocked.

The spirit of the rule is to avoid contact at the plate.
So while the rules says you can stand on the plate to receive a throw, it seems you have to let the runner slide and try to tag him before he reaches rather than block him.

Merri could have bowled Sanchez over and he would have been out.
It's all a reflection on how early the ball was there.

Magpie - Monday, August 08 2022 @ 08:37 AM EDT (#419329) #
Merryweather's bonus option will still be in effect as he was in the minors on rehab not option IIRC

He's on a rehab assignment now, but he was optioned to Buffalo for two weeks back in May. He was down there for 16 days.
John Northey - Monday, August 08 2022 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#419332) #
Thanks Magpie. I couldn't recall of he was optioned down or not. That cuts his value in 2023 significantly as he'd have to stick on day 1 throughout the season. Wouldn't be shocked then if he gets taken off the 40 man early in the off season. A shame as he has looked good at times, but right now I wouldn't lock him in for a 26 man slot.
92-93 - Monday, August 08 2022 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#419333) #
You need to spend 20 days in the minors to burn an option, so Merryweather might still have one.
Michael - Monday, August 08 2022 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#419347) #
Yeah, the catcher can choose what lane to offer the runner and then the runner needs to use that lane. But when the catcher offers no lane (which is what Sanchez did on this play), then the runner chooses a blocked lane, and Merrifield chose the direct middle lane as the fastest to the (blocked) plate and slide feet first rather than try an outside (longer/slower and still blocked) slide path.
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