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Three cities, one franchise ... greatest PHA/KCA/OAK Athletic?

Mickey Cochrane 1 (0.86%)
Eddie Collins 1 (0.86%)
Dennis Eckersley 5 (4.31%)
Jimmie Foxx 28 (24.14%)
Lefty Grove 13 (11.21%)
Rickey Henderson 64 (55.17%)
Catfish Hunter 1 (0.86%)
Eddie Plank 1 (0.86%)
Al Simmons 0 (0.00%)
Other (who?) 2 (1.72%)
Three cities, one franchise ... greatest PHA/KCA/OAK Athletic? | 7 comments | Create New Account
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Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 08:34 AM EDT (#173442) #

With apologies to the Yankees, this may have been the hardest team to pick a final list for so far -- oh, three or four teams, including NYY, have a greater list of pantheon players, but the A's had 18 or 20 legitimate "final nine" type guys -- how many other teams would have a list that didn't even include Rube Waddell, Rollie Fingers and the pre-controversy Mark McGwire, for goodness sakes? Those were the last three cut from the list, and that doesn't even leave room in the discussion for ... (and I will leave someone or more out here, apologies) ...

Jason Giambi, Jose Canseco, Reggie Jackson, Bob Johnson, Bert Campaneris, Jimmie Dykes, Sal Bando, Frank Baker, Eric Chavez, Max Bishop, Eddie Joost, Billy North, Carney Lansford, Joe Rudi, Gene Tenace, Chief Bender, Vida Blue, Dave Stewart, Jack Coombs, Joe Bush and of course, Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito ... is there a single name on that list that wouldn't, for instance, win the Devil Rays poll from a while back?

Mike Green - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#173445) #
It is hard to choose among Henderson, Grove, Foxx and Collins.  Henderson was a historically great player, and is the definitive leadoff hitter of all time.  Bill James had Grove as the 3rd best player of all time, behind Ruth and Wagner, in the original Historical Abstract in about 1984.  Collins has an argument as the best second baseman ever, and played a lead role on the great A's clubs of the early teens.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#173449) #

And Eckersly was arguably the greatest closer (actually, Fingers was arguably the greatest closer, too, but in a different era, and I couldn't include both on the short list. I recognize I may have picked the wrong one -- either wway). The guy on the list who'd be easiest to remove is probably Hunter.

That said, I voted Rickey. I paused on Foxx and Grove, but Rickey is Rickey and could probably still hit .240 and steal 45 bags right now at what, age 50?

Mike Green - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#173450) #
I voted Rickey, too. Another way to look at it is by the decade of their primes.  Collins was probably the fourth best player of the teens behind Cobb, Speaker and Johnson.   Foxx and Grove are arguably behind Gehrig and Arky Vaughan (who remains horribly underappreciated) in the 30s. Rickey was behind Schmidt and perhaps Cal Ripken in the 80s. 
Magpie - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#173451) #
One franchise, three cities... but you did glide soundlessly over the Kansas City years. No love for Norm Siebern?

Collins, Grove, and Eckersley just might be the greatest players ever at their position - and while Cochrane, Foxx, Henderson and Frank Baker aren't, they're right there in the argument, scuffling for a spot in the top five. The rest of the guys are just run of the mill Hall of Famers.

The franchise has always had trouble being able to afford their stars (a problem they solved in KC by not having any.) Being able to win while watching stars like Tejada and Giambi depart has helped to made Billy Beane famous - after all, Charlie Finley and Connie Mack suffered the same trial, and couldn't keep the team from going into the dumpster.

Lefty Grove.

AWeb - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#173495) #
These are the first results I strongly disagree with, as I've voted for Lefty Grove. Grove has a legitimate claim to being one of the top 5 pitchers of all time. He leads in career ERA+  at 148 (aside from Pedro, who's miles ahead at 160), he lead the league in ERA (and ERA+) 9 times in 14 years, making the top ten every other year but 1934. In 1934 his arm had serious problems, he lost his fastball, then came back and dominated as a control lefty in Boston. Grove, like Pedro, also pitched his best in an extreme hitting environment (1930's). Grove's peak  (basically his entire career except his first and last year) was like Santana or Koufax, except lasting 15 years. Plus he pitched in with 55 saves as well. His strikeout totals look modest now, but were high enough to lead the lead in K/9 5 times, and the league in total K's a remarkable 7 straight years (only Walter Johnson and Dazzy Vance, his NL counterpart at the time, managed to match that).

Yes, I likes me some Lefty Grove.


CeeBee - Thursday, August 23 2007 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#173497) #
If no one else votes for Collins I will have to. Can I have more than one vote?
Three cities, one franchise ... greatest PHA/KCA/OAK Athletic? | 7 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.