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Features Meet Da Box's All-Time Rotation

Yesterday, we posted a "thought experiment" here on Batter's Box, in which we asked users to name what their all-time starting rotation would be. That's not necessarily "the five best starting pitchers ever" (though some took it that way) but rather a true five-man rotation.

As of this writing, and obviously in the online world results can change rapidly, more than two dozen Bauxites have stepped up to answer the challenge. Actually, 27 folks chose a five-man rotation (okay, one guy named six, so there is a split vote in the results) naming no less than 25 pitchers, a list that could fill FIVE rotations.

Only one man cracked even the two-thirds barrier in vote total (Roger Clemens, 77.8 percent), but seven received double digit support. Fortuitously, two of our top five vote-getters are/were lefties, while interestingly, four of the top five are active. That said, let's meet ...



The All-Time Batter's Box Starting Rotation:

  1. RHSP Roger Clemens - 21 votes
  2. RHSP Pedro Martinez - 17 votes
  3. LHSP Sandy Koufax - 13 votes
  4. RHSP Greg Maddux - 12 votes
  5. LHSP Randy Johnson - 11 votes

Others Receiving Multiple Votes:

  • 10 votes: Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson
  • 7 votes: Bob Gibson
  • 6 votes: Tom Seaver
  • 3 votes: Steve Carlton, Christy Mathewson, Dave Stieb
  • 2 votes: Nolan Ryan, Warren Spahn, Cy Young
  • 1.5 votes: Roy Halladay, Babe Ruth

Receiving One Vote Each:
listed alphabetically

Mordecai Brown, Chris Carpenter, David Cone, Don Drysdale, Addie Joss, Joe McGinnity, Phil Niekro, Juan Marichal, Satchel Paige, Fernando Valenzuela

Posted by Mick Doherty on Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 12:16 PM EDT.
Meet Da Box's All-Time Rotation | 6 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#168993) #

I admit, with as great as that front five is, I'm not at all sure that the second five -- Johnson, Grove, GIbson, Seaver, Carlton as the second lefty -- wouldn't be better! And the third five of Mathewson, Spahn, Ryan, Young and Steib -- while slanted to the right side -- wouldn't exactly suck, either. Might have to go to Ruth as the second lefty there, leaving Jays Steib and Halladay as the only multiple-vote-getters not in the top three rotations.

[ Reply to This ]
Magpie - Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#168996) #
You can construct a pretty decent rotation out of guys who didn't get any votes at all. I'd happily go into battle with Pete Alexander, Kid Nichols, Dizzy Dean, Bob Feller, and Robin Roberts.

So I don't have a lefty? So what!
[ Reply to This ]
ayjackson - Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#169005) #
I guess I chose the consenus rotation, except for having Walter Johnson in for Greg Maddux.  I'd probably consider Maddux if he could bring his own umpire.
[ Reply to This ]
John Northey - Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#169007) #
4 actives and one guy who I've always thought was overrated. Interesting.

Given how few looked into the pre-1900 stuff (of course they threw underarm and from a shorter distance for most of that) I figure I should give a 5 man for that (even though it tended to be one man staffs).

Al Spalding - 1871-1877
253 W 65 L 2.14 ERA 142 ERA+, 5 year stretch of 400+ IP with one year going up to 616 1/3 IP with 23 BB and just 11 SO. Yup, a different era. And yes, he is the one with the sporting goods company.

Kid Nichols - 1890-1906
361-208 2.95 ERA 139 ERA+, effective in the pre and post-underarm era. Spent his age 32/33/37 on seasons in the west coast 'minor leagues' which were in many respects just as good as the real majors.

Cy Young - 1890-1911
267-151 3.05 ERA 139 ERA+ pre 1900
244-165 2.19 ERA 135 ERA+ 1900 on
There is a reason the award is named for him.

John Clarkson - 1882-1894
328-178 2.81 ERA 134 ERA+ 1978 K's
Back then he was one of the best strikeout pitchers there was. Cracking 300 twice. His ERA+ of 124 in his last ML season suggests he wasn't done yet, but he had a losing record those last two seasons and odds are that is all teams looked at.

Tommy Bond - 1874-1884
234-163 2.31 ERA 111 ERA+
From his second season at 19 to his age 23 season he was amazing - 2.11 was his highest ERA, between 6 and 11 shutouts a season (hard with the poor fielding back then). Three times over 40 wins. The next season something went wrong and in his last 3 seasons would pitch less in total than he did in any one season before it. He was the last member of the 1876 National League to pass away, back in 1941.
[ Reply to This ]
daryn - Thursday, May 31 2007 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#169045) #
Votes like this, which are primarily popularity contests, nearly always overweight the more recent players.

Those are all good players though


[ Reply to This ]
ayjackson - Friday, June 01 2007 @ 01:08 AM EDT (#169065) #

Is ERA+ normalized for variances in runse scored across eras?  What Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, and Randy have been able to due is quite impressive given the longball era.  I'm not an expert on what runs scored was like throughout the last century.

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