Terrible trade.  Now they've got a hole in left field.  Lincoln seems like a much lower upside guy than Snider.  I don't get this at all.  Was the need for an extra bullpen guy that urgent?  Yikes. 

Maybe they're going to move Lincoln back to the rotation?  Even if they do that, I think this is a poor trade.  I like Zaunie's comment, straight to the point - "good trade for Pittsburgh".

Clearly, the Jays thought that Thames + Lincoln is better than Snider + Chad Beck.

Snider's the only one with upside there.

Given that they are acquiring Delabar, it makes even less sense now to trade Snider.  You've got a bullpen of Janssen, Lyon, Oliver, Frasor (when he returns), Happ, Delabar and Loup.  Throw in Lincoln and you've got eight.  I don't see how adding Lincoln to that bullpen helps them more than having Snider in LF instead of Davis or Gose.  Not to mention the superior upside Snider has vs Lincoln.

Thay had better have a deal tomorrow for a left fielder.

Do we just like Sierra that much more than Thames or Snider?

Seriously, I don't like the idea of Gose or Davis as a full time LF for us.

People have to get over the idea that Snider is a prospect. He isn't. We should be overjoyed that AA could get that much for him. The longer we kept him, the more his value diminished. I hope for his sake he can turn things around in Pittsburgh, because he sure couldn't in Toronto.

My issue is the Thames trade. I am not saying Thames is awesome but by trading BOTH of them does that make Rajai Davis a full time player? That is not good.

Hopefully another deal is coming.

I'll admit I'm not completely rational when it comes to Snider.  His wrist injuries are troubling.  I think he is figuring it out.  The Jays have thrown him his final curveball.

I do like Gose though.  He looks (a) very young and (b) like he will hit.  He has a very quick and quiet/compact swing.  By no means does he need to be in the majors now though.

Snider trade:

Initial thought - don't like it

Second thought - Left fielders are easy to find in the off season, Snider can be replaced

Third thought - relievers are easy to find in the off season, why give away a lot for one?

Fourth thought - don't like it

These trades and last weeks trade suggest AA is trying to win now, or at least in 2013.  He is willing to trade prospects for major league proven players, even if they are relievers.  It also suggests to me that the budget is not going to be significantly higher next year so AA doesn't think he can fill those holes in free agency.

Finally, the Jays are short major league ready pitching in the upper minors so AA has to trade hitters for pitchers.

I'm just commenting to say I'm not going to comment until after the dust settles. Does AA give Davis the full-time LF job and go with an OF of Davis/Rasmus/Bautista? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Any chance we see Encarnacion playing Left field?  God I hope not, I think he should be given the full time 1B position, but he was snagging flies there this spring.

I did know any of this prior to last night.  This morning I flipped through MLBTR and saw that Thames was traded for a reliever.  My first thought was ‘I guess Snider really won the LF job now’.  Then I scrolled some more and saw that Snider had been traded too.

I really like the Thames trade, although in the grand scheme of things it’s a small gain.  He’s essentially a replacement level LF (or slightly worse) and was flipped for a 28 year old reliever with almost no service time, a high K rate and low BB rate.  The HRs are high which is the concern (Unlucky?  Could have been worse but masked by the park? Both? Neither?).  Maybe he’s a 6th inning guy, or the call-up when there’s injuries, but I also think there’s a possibility that he turns in a few decent years for essentially the minimum.  That’s more than Thames was going to provide.

Snider is the more interesting move.  He has the pedigree and the tools, and is really likable (or at least I found him likable).  You always wanted to say that this was the moment when the light turned on and he’d become a dominant hitter.  But at this point, he’s had almost 1000 PAs and hasn’t done anything with it.  And on top of that he’s an injury risk.  At this point he’s more Josh Phelps (at the time he was traded) than an OF who’ll be a middle of the order hitter for 5+ years.  I think the Jays are viewing the move through this lens and I suspect they’re pretty excited about Lincoln.

I find the move interesting from the Pirates perspective.  They’re in a race and are trading a pitcher who’s been dominant in relief for a former top prospect who’s been up-and-down.  But upon further review they have by far the worse OPS from LF in the NL (.565…. ouch!) so I guess Snider doesn’t have to do much to improve upon that, and the Pirates get a little upside as well.

Time will tell, but I don’t think this is a move that will end up biting the Jays and could very well work out well.

Another interesting angle is, did they call Snider up to ‘showcase’ him?  Was the plan to trade him all along, or did they just come across an offer they couldn’t turn down?  Probably something we'll never know.

Also, while I know alot of people are looking at the gap in LF and wondering how it is going to be filled, can we please dispense with this whole "waiting for the other shoe to drop" thing?

I swear to God that this board has labelled every single trade that AA has completed as a "precursor to another move" these boards. 

While that statement in and of itself is factually correct, I don't think that we should be expecting to turn on Sportsnet at 3:30 and see Justin Upton.

Doesn't Snider have no options left? IF the Jays had no space for him next year(or this year), wouldn't they lose him anyway?  It also tells me the Jays have different plans for the OF and they just wanted to make room. 

I think they are clearing way for Gose.  With Snider\Thames around, Gose would always look over his shoulder.  The Jays might be saying to the kid, "You have 2 months to prove yourself or we will deal with this in the offseason...."

I think this was a good trade for all.  Snider needed a fresh start and you can never have too many servicable bullpen arms. 

Another thing...  Lincoln was drafted before Snider in the same year.  So, when it comes "prospect status", wouldn't they really be about equal?

True, but I was just looking at each team's current LFers.

I believe Suzuki has only played RF for the Yankees.

Just saw the photo, couldn't agree more. Happy for Sierra making it to the bigs.

Also, Sierra up, Crawford/Carreno down, clearing the additional spot needed for two RP's.

If you want to know what today is like in the front office Dan Evans has a very informative piece at BP.

In many organizations, deciding where the team stands at the deadline is the most difficult part of the process. There are 17 teams within five games of a playoff berth today, and herein lies the tough call. Are we a buyer or a seller? This conversation isn't comfortable, as it requires a sit-down with ownership about where you are as a franchise. This is a critical phase, since you need to come clean and then find out what direction ownership wants to take. If you are the general manager, it also is a job review of sorts, since your work is under inspection. This chat requires some preparation, because you have to go into the meeting with a plan. For some GMs in fragile stages of their contracts, it can be the beginning of the end of their employment.

Everyone likes to talk about what you're looking to add as a contender, but the other path is the much more difficult one. If you are one of the 13 or so clubs who woke up today with little or no chance to play in the postseason, you have to evaluate who is part of your nucleus for the following year and beyond and whom you might consider moving to try to contend in the future. This is where your scouts and minor-league staff become critical decision makers if you're doing it right. If they can evaluate well and are realistic about your personnel, you can make shrewd moves. If not, two years later you'll still be waiting for guys to get out of Double-A. It is extremely tough to communicate with your staff if you are going to change course, but if there is a distinct plan, they will be part of the solution, not the problem.

If Thames was our fulltime LF, we are not a contending team.  Average bat with poor defense. I like Thames, but there are at least 4 players in the minors that would rather see in the outfield before him. 

We are romanticizing Snider.  His value is near gone and he has no options left.  Time to move on.  Good luck Travis..

They should solve the bullpen issues for this year and next, though. That's a plus.

Maybe, but how does trading better offensive players and replacing them with worse offensive players make you better?  I think the plan is to go with a 13 or 14 man pitching staff.  These extra position players were just getting in the way of the grand scheme.

Last time I checked the Jays were the highest scoring team in baseball, accomplished without any meaningful contributions from Snider or Thames.

I hope AA isn't using that logic when making trades.  Maybe he should trade Gose and Marasnick as well for more relievers because they haven't contributed either.

Look, like it or not, the bullpen is part of a major league team.  Like with any other roster component, you want average-or-above players, preferably not in decline.

If you want any average-or-above player in or approaching your prime, there are three ways to get it:  (1) development, including drafted/signed amateur players and past trades for prospects; (2) overpay in dollars for big league free agents; (3) overpay in young talent via a trade.

Jays ownership has ruled out (2), definitively and inflexibly.  That leaves (1) and (3). 

(1) has failed with respect to the bullpen, in part because of injuries (although I do think that there was a bit of a penny-wise, pound-foolish approach to the Jays' pitching staff -- relying on young, cheap starting options have really taxed a lot of arms, both SP and RP).  The Jays have not successfully groomed power arms in the high minors for the bullpen, and most of the exciting arms in the system are still in the low minors -- and most, if not all, of them are still being groomed for a potential starting role.  Having the AAA affiliate in Las Vegas also really hurts on this front -- very hard to evaluate AAA performance (and, if you're a pitcher, to develop confidence) in such a skewed environment.  But (1) won't work for all positions in all years -- not for any organization.  There will always be some gaps in the pipeline.

So you need to take option (3) if you want a controllable twentysomething reliever who's been lights-out this year.  I'd rather them use (2), at least occasionally on short-term deals, more often to avoid having to always drain depth from the system.

"Quick, someone tell the Yankees they aren't really contending as long as they keep playing Raul Ibanez."

And next year the Jays can have Ibanez for bucket of balls to play left field.

What I mean is that Thames is not going to be the player that we can build around.  7th/8th hitter at best.  We can always pick up an Ibanez like player in the offseason.  I like Thames, but the team is not going to be decimated because of it.

What's even worse is that the Jays did the same thing twice in one day.  I know some people don't like Thames but I'd rather try and catch lightning in a bottle with him than have to trot out Davis (not good) and Gose (not ready).

The philosophy is easy to understand: The Jays don't think Snider is likely to achieve his high upside.

You're just assuming that.  Maybe the thought process was that they liked Snider but they really wanted an 8th inning guy to shore up the bullpen and that was the price they were willing to pay.  Now there's a scary thought.