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This is a post from bauxite Mike D.

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An analysis of whether the Blue Jays’ bullpen has succeeded or failed this season is surprisingly complex.

Looking at the most basic mainstream measure of saves, the Jays have been an atrocious 6-for-16 in save situations (while the first-overall Cardinals have been a tidy 25-for-29). On the other hand, the Jays’ reliever ERA is better than that of eight other teams’ bullpens, and the bullpen’s K/BB ratio is second-best in the majors while holding opponents to the tenth-lowest opposing OPS.



So what gives? It turns out that the Jays’ bullpen has in fact been very good – except in high-leverage situations, where they’ve been utterly horrible.

Ahead by 4+ runs (47 2/3 IP): 3.59 ERA, 70% strand rate

Ahead by 3 runs (11 IP): 0.00 ERA, 100% strand rate

Ahead by 2 runs (7 2/3 IP): 8.22 ERA, 58% strand rate

Ahead by 1 run (9 1/3 IP): 15.43 ERA, 42% strand rate

Tied (13 1/3 IP): 5.40 ERA, 40% strand rate

Down by 1 run (21 1/3 IP): 0.84 ERA, 86% strand rate

Down by 2 runs (11 IP): 5.73 ERA, 50% strand rate

Down by 3 runs (15 2/3 IP): 2.87 ERA, 100% strand rate

Down by 4+ runs (31 1/3 IP): 1.44 ERA, 80% strand rate

In the aggregate and by my calculations, the Jays’ bullpen has put up a 2.91 ERA with a 71% strand rate with a lead of three or more runs. And they’ve posted an excellent 2.07 ERA when trailing by any score, with a 74% strand rate. But their performance when tied, or ahead by two runs or fewer, is ghastly: a 9.20 ERA and a 48% strand rate. They have given up 16 earned runs in 9 1/3 IP with a one-run lead – and 10 earned runs in 47 IP facing a deficit of three runs or more.

So the bullpen has been a key contributor to the Jays’ AL-best run differential, because they have consistently prevented inherited deficits from getting any worse. They’ve also been solid with a significant lead (after some early season problems in that department).

The Jays’ bullpen has been consistently effective in mop-up duty, but the bullpen is crying out for an experienced arm for higher-leverage situations. Aaron Loup ranks second in the Jays’ pen with both his 2.083 years of service time and his $527,000 salary. Speaking of Loup, he actually dramatically improved the bullpen’s strand rate with one-run leads (from 22% to 42%) when he struck out Hank Conger on the weekend with three inherited runners aboard, before Bo Schultz coughed up the lead an inning later.

Apropos of nothing, Jonathan Papelbon has a 1.50 ERA and has stranded all three of his inherited baserunners in situations where the game is tied or his team is ahead by one or two runs.


Thanks to Mike D.

The Jays Only Need a Closer | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
BlueJayWay - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#302488) #
This validates my impression of the pen. Down in a game, they're fine. Up by quite a few runs, they're fine. Tied or leading by a run or two late, they blow up.
92-93 - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#302492) #
Figured this would be good thread to respond to China Fan's point earlier.

"There's really no doubt that the bullpen is the obvious target for an upgrade at this stage of the season. The Jays have a league-leading 10 blown saves this year (in just 16 opportunities). An upgrade in the bullpen would be far more effective (and realistically achievable) than a trade at any other roster spot."

The question is are you better off upgrading the bullpen by acquiring a reliever, or a starter? Estrada and Sanchez look great right now, but do we really believe they will continue to take the ball every 5 days with satisfactory results (especially with Sanchez, who threw around 130 innings last year)? It may be in the team's best interests, both short-term and long-term, to acquire a solid-to-stud starter that allows them to transition Sanchez into the bullpen by the end of the season. It's likely better if AA takes an open approach to talent acquisition and doesn't pigeonhole himself into needing a capital C closer.
China fan - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#302495) #
".....It's likely better if AA takes an open approach to talent acquisition and doesn't pigeonhole himself into needing a capital C closer....."

I fully agree, and I'm fairly confident that AA is searching for anyone who can help the roster -- whether it's a reliever, a starter, an outfielder or whatever.   But every analyst has already noted that it's a seller's market this year, even more than usual, because so many teams are still within striking distance of a wild card or can convince themselves that they still have a shot.  Trades will be difficult.  AA will have to do whatever he can.  If he can get a top starter, allowing Estrada or Sanchez to strengthen the bullpen, that would be great.  But a reliever is probably easier to acquire than a Hamels or Cueto, 

As for pigeonholing a capital C closer:  I think the Jays, like most teams, have moved away from that old-fashioned stereotype.  The point is to acquire someone who can pitch in high-leverage situations, whether it's the 7th or 9th inning.  Papelbon, Clippard, Chapman....  or even an Estrada or Sanchez if the Jays acquire a starter....  There are lots of possibilities, but the bullpen needs to be strengthened.


China fan - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#302496) #
".....The Jays’ bullpen has been consistently effective in mop-up duty, but the bullpen is crying out for an experienced arm for higher-leverage situations..."

Fully agree.   Good analysis.
uglyone - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#302499) #
i'm not sure i buy the fact that our pitchers are better than other teams in low leverage then suddenly worse in high leverage. there may be something to be said about younger guys panicking a bit in their first high stakes situations but i would guess that the majority of the difference we're seeing is just small sample random variation.
Mike Green - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#302501) #
The decision to make Miguel Castro a closer was obviously ill-advised.  Since that time (a month and a half), Brett Cecil has been the closer.  He has come on once in the ninth with a 3 run lead and recorded the save and once with a 2 run lead and recorded the save.  He has not yet come on in the high leverage save situation (ahead by a run) nor has he blown any games since being put in the role. 

It would obviously be useful to have  a good reliever in addition to Loup, Hendriks, Osuna and Cecil.  Given Gibbons' managing style, it would be better if he had a right-handed "established" closer that he felt comfortable with so that he could settle into "conventional" middle-inning/set-up roles for the other four.  I had hopes that Gibbons might be able to make better use of the talent that he had; I imagine that Anthopoulos might have felt the same way.  You do have to, at some point, accept him as he is.
Lylemcr - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#302503) #
Excellent analysis Mike!
ayjackson - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#302504) #
I think it is a random occurence that our bullpen hasn't been good holding tight leads. I think if left alone, those numbers would moderate over the remainder of the year.

hypobole - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#302505) #
Gonna play the devil's advocate here.

Cecil is the closer many want to replace with a "proven" guy, and maybe at great cost. Cecil has blown 1 frikkin save this year, over 2 months ago. He hasn't had a save opportunity in over a month. Last 30 days, he has 8 IP, 2 R (both solo HR's), 0 BB, 11K.

So who has blown the other 9 saves?
Castro 2 - He's gone and injured(anyone have new info?)
Loup 2 - 4 Holds. Not effective this year, part of reason for Coke.
Hendricks 2 - 1 Hold. The epitome of the unclutchiness from the table above.
Osuna 1 - 7 Holds. Happens.
Delabar 1 - 1 Hold.
Shultz 1 - 0 Holds.

So I'm only guessing at this, but probably 28 closers have blown saves since Cecil blew his last one. Osuna has done the job (though I agree he may be wearing down). It's the 7th inning guys who've been the problem, and even though people here have a narrative that Gibbons doesn't trust anyone but his select few, they have given Gibbons almost no reason to trust them.

On the other hand it bears mentioning, we're talking SSS. Hendricks may seem to collapse in high leverage situations, but it's happened twice, and he's pitched very well otherwise.

My point - Maybe we're panicking for no reason at all, other than a statistical anomaly, or maybe the bullpen does have no clutch. Let's give it a bit more time to see which is the truth.
Mike Green - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#302506) #
Liam Hendriks. Kyle Hendricks.  This PSA has been brought to you by Torii Spelling, bringing baseball and variance together in a somewhat pleasurable fashion. 
ayjackson - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#302507) #
Mets have bumped Syndergaard back to Monday.

Sanchez-Syndergaard

Where's justin nicolino when you need him!
Chuck - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#302508) #
If you give up a lead in the 7th or 8th inning, is it reasonable to be called a blown save? It's not like you were in the game to get a save in the first place. There really should be a Blown Hold stat for anything that goes on before the 9th inning.
Alex Obal - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#302509) #
I'm in favor of preemptively adding a fireman to hedge against the risk of our incumbent relievers getting hurt. I'm pretty confident random variance has a lot to do with the unclutchness, but if that angle is what convinces them to break down and pay Papelbon, I ain't complaining.
China fan - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#302510) #
".....Cecil is the closer many want to replace with a "proven" guy, and maybe at great cost....."

I don't think that's necessarily what we want.  What we want is not a "proven" closer but just someone who is likely to pitch more effectively in high-leverage situations than a Loup or a Tepera or a Schultz or a Delabar.  Then you can demote the 7th reliever to the minors, you can add the new guy to the potential mix for the 8th and 9th innings, and you can reduce the need for a Loup or Hendriks in a high-leverage situation.  I'm not saying that those two are incapable of high-leverage work -- of course they are often very capable -- but it would be better if you can use them a little less often in those situations.  Adding a top reliever would just benefit the entire bullpen, top to bottom.  It's not a matter of targeting Cecil or anyone else in particular, but just allowing a broader diversity of choices in high-leverage situations.


Chuck - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#302511) #
Liam Hendriks. Kyle Hendricks.

And Kyle Kendrick.

hypobole - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#302512) #
Thanks Mike; it was a high leverage post and my spelling collapsed.
Chuck - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#302513) #
but if that angle is what convinces them to break down and pay Papelbon, I ain't complaining

Except that he'd be an awfully difficult guy to root for, even when wearing your team's laundry. That said, I imagine if we really knew the players personally we'd probably be surprised to learn which ones we suddenly pull for and which ones leave us cold.

Mike Green - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#302514) #
I'm in favor of preemptively adding a fireman to hedge against the risk of our incumbent relievers getting hurt. I'm pretty confident random variance has a lot to do with the unclutchness, but if that angle is what convinces them to break down and pay Papelbon, I ain't complaining.

...my impression is that it's all about the dollars.  Maybe if 35,000-40,000 fans keep rolling in, they'll decide to loosen the purse strings a touch.  It's too bad the homestand wasn't longer...
Alex Obal - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#302516) #
Makes you wonder how the actual finances work there. They'll probably be playing meaningful games in September™ even without Papelbon's permascowl, but how much does he need to increase the likelihood of a playoff run to be worth it? Lots of questions in there - how good is Papelbon, how good is the existing bullpen, will Osuna pitch lefty in August, how much revenue does a playoff run actually earn Rogers, does Rogers even care about the possibility that the Jays could be more profitable, etc.

I would not like to see the Jays pay for Papelbon. That would be dumb. If you're going to sell the farm, do it for a SP.
Dr B - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#302518) #

China fan - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#302519) #
"....If you're going to sell the farm, do it for a SP....."

But let's take the example of Pentecost, as someone mentioned in the other thread.  Pentecost probably has more value to other teams than he does to the Jays.  He's blocked by Martin for the next five years. He has health issues.  He's had two shoulder procedures since the end of last season.  He's 22 and hasn't played at a higher level than Vancouver.  Maybe you sell high on him?  If Pentecost and one or two other low-level prospects can get you Papelbon or Chapman -- a huge upgrade over half of the Jays relievers, allowing a much worse reliever to be demoted to the minors and allowing better pitchers to take the higher-leverage situations -- maybe you do it, and maybe it's not selling the farm.  Maybe the short-term benefit is much greater than the potential cost a few years down the line.
Dr B - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#302520) #
Apologies for the multiple posts, but is this working at all?
John Northey - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#302521) #
When it comes to hard to cheer for Rickey Henderson was the hardest in Jays history - he was the bad guy, the guy who killed us and he was fun to boo.  Then suddenly he was us.  Always wondered what if to the Randy Johnson trade that Gillick was trying to finish when he gave in on Rickey Henderson.  Imagine the big unit here for 1993 and beyond.  That would've been fun.

hypobole - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#302522) #
China Fan - read the post title, read the comments, that's exactly what we (as in the majority) want and/or are discussing as a trade target. No mention of effective 7th inning guys.

Dr B - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#302523) #
Last go. Blog is eating my posts. Yum, yum.

> i would guess that the majority of the difference we're seeing is just small sample random variation.

Amen to that.

What we have is an excellent explanation of what happened, but is not necessarily enough to draw conclusions about the quality of the bullpen. The sample size is just too small as Mike D. alludes to here:

> Speaking of Loup, he actually dramatically improved the bullpen's strand rate with one-run leads (from 22% to 42%) when he struck out Hank Conger

That's the sound of sample size shouting at you. That's not to say one shouldn't upgrade the bullpen, it's simply that you need a bigger sample size to use this type of evidence as justification.

Jonny German - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#302524) #
" He has health issues. He's had two shoulder procedures since the end of last season. He's 22 and hasn't played at a higher level than Vancouver. Maybe you sell high on him? "

You do make a compelling case for his value being at a high!
Spifficus - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#302529) #

If Pentecost and one or two other low-level prospects can get you Papelbon or Chapman

As Jonny bemusingly points out, Pentecost, for the very reasons you highlight, probably isn't the most valuable trade commodity at the moment. He'd have more value to the organization if they hold on to him and get him playing again. I mean, if someone treats him as something near full value, that's different, but at this point, it's probably safe to assume that other teams will be looking at him as a discounted lottery ticket.

Also, given that a lot of the system's strength is high ceiling live arms in the lower minors, "low-level prospects" probably needs some fleshing out. Labourt? Tirado? Tinoco? Reid-Foley? Smoral? Greene? On the bat side, Davis? Alford? Urena? Tellez? There are definitely devils in these details.

Do you really see Papelbon having the approximately same trade value as Chapman? If so, I know which way I'd be steering. How much of the contract do you see being paid down? I think you have to assume the vesting option gets exercised (if it doesn't have to be guaranteed for the trade to go through). Otherwise, you didn't get 33 games finished (from today). So that's $21M due Papelbon, and $5M plus a year of arbitration for Chapman.

John Northey - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#302530) #
I think the big issue will be cost/benefit.  What is the cost of each option (starter, closer, etc.) and what kind of return should he give the team?

A closer has the bonus of shifting the entire pen into lower leverage situations (in theory).  A starter would do a similar thing as someone would then move to the pen and help relieve some of the pressure there.

Teams that are weak (over 6 games back) have potentials...
Colorado: John Axford is their closer with a 0.50 ERA he is a free agent after 2016 3.40 lifetime FIP 3.25 ERA.  over a K per inning lifetime but just 6.5 this season so far.  Only making $2.6 mil this year.  Could be a good target depending what the Rockies want.
Arizona: Brad Ziegler very low 4.8 K/9 this year 6.0 lifetime.  $5 mil this year, $1 mil buyout or $5.5 next year so affordable but is he worth getting?
Milwaukee: Francisco Rodriguez is their closer (9.4 K/9 2.7 BB/9, 0.4 HR/9), Will Smith is their LH setup and doing wow (13.1 K/9 3.9 BB/9 0 HR) but is very cheap and not available I suspect.
Philly: debated to death
Miami: A.J. Ramos having a good year but is cheap and controllable for a long time, not someone Miami would trade easily. Dan Haren having a good year in the rotation (3.12 ERA) but had 3 years of sub 90 ERA+'s before that so I'd be nervous.
Oakland: current closer is meh. Evan Scribner has been wow as setup but is pre-arb so doubtful availability.  Scott Kazmir having a good year again and is a free agent after the season so there is a possibility.

China fan - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#302534) #
"....(Pentecost) probably isn't the most valuable trade commodity at the moment...."

He's generally ranked as a top-10 prospect in the Jays system, and he's only a year removed from being a first-round draft choice.  His status might decline sharply if he doesn't play much this year, due to injury.  That's what I meant about "selling high" now, while he's still seen as a top prospect.  But of course there's an alternative argument that he'll gain more value after he has fully recovered from the injury.  And who knows how he'll be perceived in 2016.  Nobody really knows how to "sell high" in baseball, any more than they know how to sell high in the stock market.  If it was obvious to everyone, we'd all be stock-market billionaires.


cruzin - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#302536) #
I would like to believe it's the whole SSS issue with the unclutchiness of this bullpen.

Cueto, Kazmir and Chapman would be interesting trades where you have to give up something of significance and would probably justified to do so. For the others that provide the presumed bullpen closer (Chapman aside), I'd pass unless the prospect ask was quite low.

But if it's truly a sellers market, then it might be better to move forward with what you have. Let's not have another overpay like the Dickey trade that was suppose to put the Blue Jays over the top.
Alex Obal - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#302538) #
Incidentally, if your idea of an ideal closer is a hard-throwing righty who pounds the zone - you've heard of this Hendriks guy, yes? "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" would probably be an above-average entrance song. The hard part would be convincing Cecil that the setup role is actually a promotion.
John Northey - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#302539) #
If Hendriks can do it then alternate him and Cecil depending on who is coming up (LH or RH mainly for the next 3-5 hitters).  Much like the Mets did in 1986 with Orosco and McDowell (20+ saves each iirc).
ayjackson - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#302540) #
Jeebus. Six different threads have posts in it today. Haven't seen that in a while. Need a Series thread to ice the cake?
scottt - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#302542) #
Kazmir has never won more than 13 games in a year. Not exactly the ace that Dickey and Buerhle would defer to.


cruzin - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#302547) #
"Kazmir has never won more than 13 games in a year. Not exactly the ace that Dickey and Buerhle would defer to."

Except for the fact that he has, specifically last year when he won 15. No Kazmir wouldn't be as ideal Cueto in that regard, but still with the current starters and the hitters on this team, could go places.
Mike D - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#302548) #
A few follow-up observations.

Regarding sample size, you might think that at 9 1/3 IP the Jays bullpen has only had a handful of one-run leads to protect. But that total actually reflects a substantial amount of appearances in which the team surrendered runs (16 earned runs plus some additional unearned runs) before recording many (or any) outs, thus taking them out of the 1-run lead situation. The Jays have tended to cough up one-run leads alarmingly quickly. In happier games, the Jays' bats have also taken their bullpen out of the one-run environment by adding on runs in later innings.

Also on the sample size point: Papelbon has collected 23.3 career WAR. The entire current 7-man Jays bullpen has 7.5 career WAR -- Osuna was born in 1995 and is 4th in career WAR; Tepera is 5th at 0.0 WAR.

In other words, the Jays have put out the least pedigreed bullpen in baseball, other than arguably the Mets' pen which has dealt with 6 DL stints and a steroid suspension. Which is to say: It may be a reach to assume that the Jays' strong low-leverage performance when behind is sustainable, even as we hope that their poor high-leverage performance might work itself out. Wouldn't we all be happy with Osuna finishing the year at around a 3.00 ERA?

Finally, when I used the shorthand "closer" I of course meant a high-leverage relief ace, and not one limited to hidebound usage patterns of only the 9th, only when ahead, etc.

For years, pitchers have regularly stated in interviews that high-leverage relief feels different than ordinary relief work; doesn't common baseball sense indicate that an inexperienced bullpen would fail in exactly the ways the Jays' bullpen has failed? I say the team should add a reliever with some dirt under his fingernails, so to speak.
Dave Till - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#302549) #
Fun bullpen fact, thanks to the wonderful Baseball Reference: only one team in the entire American League East has blown a lead in the ninth inning. That was the Boston Red Sox on May 31, who went into the ninth with a 3-2 lead against Texas but surrendered two to be walked off. The Jays have won three games when they were trailing going into the ninth.

The 1983 Jays lost eight games in which they held the lead going into the ninth. The 1985 Jays also did this, but managed to win 99 games anyway.

While I would like a new bullpen pitcher - hey, I'll take three - I believe that the bullpen is often held to a higher standard than the starting rotation. It gets to the point where people say things like "The starter left the game with a 4-3 lead after six, but the bullpen couldn't hold it."
Dr B - Friday, June 12 2015 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#302552) #
If one inning's work changes a result by 20% one has sample size issues. So the analyis is insightful, but not predictive.

As for WAR, this could be useful if the comparisons are based on the same number of innings. But it's more complicated than than that, because as soon as you have groups of pitchers, you have to dig a bit deeper before drawing conclusions. Do you have one pitcher who is a god and a bunch of stooges, or do you have a bunch of so-so's, who contribute equally to the sum? Bullpen A is of course much better, because you can use your star for the high-leverage. However, I do get what you are saying about the experience, or lack thereof, of the current bullpen, and WAR is valid for that I think.

In any case, I do agree with your general point. I am fairly sure that Papelbon would be an improvement. For evidence, I'd probably look at the pitcher peripheral stats for the last couple of years. So, for example one might look at K/BB and HR/9 over the last couple of years, and you'd probably need to look at their home park to do it properly. Papelbon's K/BB is about 4, and Cecil's (for example) is about 3 for the last couple of years and the other stats aren't too far off.





Petey Baseball - Saturday, June 13 2015 @ 04:05 AM EDT (#302619) #
Mike I wholeheartedly agree that the attendance figures play a key role in this. How this team has drawn in the past month, plus how they the in the next, is critical to who they'll be able to afford. Another reason why this win streak has been so badly needed.

Beeston isn't as cryptic as most would believe. It's pretty clear that payroll has been tied to attendance in his second go around as president. Increased attendance in 2012 was the main impetus behind the payroll bump that winter. The drop in attendance at the end of '13 and the first half of '14 led to the trade deadline debacle. And now, voila, we have Beeston yesterday giving the "show them we're serious" interview again.


TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, June 13 2015 @ 04:33 AM EDT (#302620) #
Woke up (over here, in these parts) to the awful sound of my Fooled-by-Randomness siren. Got on the internet to find the source of the problem, and was led to this thread. In addition to the usual small sample sizes leading people astray, this thread comes complete with post-hoc narratives:

doesn't common baseball sense indicate that an inexperienced bullpen would fail in exactly the ways the Jays' bullpen has failed? I say the team should add a reliever with some dirt under his fingernails, so to speak.

This narrative is complicated, of course, by a 20 year-old rookie with no prior experience beyond freakin’ A-ball being the star performer of the whole lot. Well, hold on. Maybe we can search the post-hoc narrative file for an expl… just a sec… Yeah, here we go: “Too young to know better. The cocky assuredness of youth.” Ah, yes.

Thankfully, the good Dr. B was on hand to provide a little sanity. I also agree with those skeptical of a Papelbon trade — he probably comes at too high a price, given the abundance of teams in the playoff hunt and his expected contributions (perhaps 1 WAR rest-of-season?). He’d help, sure — every little bit helps — but any look at the peripherals tells you that the current bullpen should be just fine. Get Stroman back -- at this point, I'd call it likely -- either in the rotation or in the pen, and that provides a nice internal solution that doesn’t sacrifice the long-term.
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, June 13 2015 @ 04:40 AM EDT (#302621) #
led to the trade deadline debacle

"Debacle averted" would be more accurate. For the price, perhaps, of Pompey and Norris, maybe more, we could have finished slightly less far behind in the standings.
hypobole - Saturday, June 13 2015 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#302628) #
FWIW, there was a question on Jeff Sullivans chat yesterday as what would be the cost of acquiring Paplebon,
Sullivan's answer was a barely significant prospect with Phillie eating some salary.

China fan - Saturday, June 13 2015 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#302630) #
Would a slightly better prospect allow the Phillies to absorb more of Papelbon's salary?  Because with the whims of the Jays owners these days, the prospect might be easier for AA to provide than the money.
uglyone - Sunday, June 14 2015 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#302701) #
some nice insight on Coke that provides promise, from a totally unbiased non-toronto source. he's made distinct changes in his arsenal and approach which may or may not make him better but will most definitely change his pitching profile...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-cleveland-taijuan-coke-more/

"Phil Coke has changed more than uniforms. He’s also tweaked his delivery and swapped his signature slider for a combination of cutters and curveballs. He needed to. As the 32-year-old southpaw put it, “I was tired of working so hard on something that didn’t seem to be working so much anymore.”

If you’re a Tigers fan, you probably read those words and thought “No (expletive).” Coke had his moments in Motown, but recent seasons – especially 2013 – were littered with ugly outings. As a result, Detroit bid him adieu in the offseason. After a brief hookup with the Cubs, the refurbished reliever is now a Blue Jay. He joined the north-of-the-border ball club on Friday.

Coke instituted his changes this winter, working with Poway, California-based pitching instructor Dominick Johnson. The repertoire change came with consistency in mind. Coke’s slider was lethal when sharp, but too often was flat and found gaps.

“In years past, I hung a lot of breaking balls,” admitted Coke, who hasn’t thrown a slider all season. “The way my cutter comes out of my hand is just easier to repeat.”

Mechanics were a big reason his slider was erratic. He wasn’t always getting on top of the ball, and his motion was a big reason why. Correcting that was crucial to his remaking.

“I’m not at a 45 (degree angle) and turning my back to the hitter anymore,” said Coke. “What it comes down is creating angles. With sharper angles – being closed off – your body has to repeatedly fight through to get to a consistent release point. I was getting rotational, trying to get out of those angles.

“My arm stroke was also getting too long. As soon as I separated out of my glove, you could see the ball all the way up to the top, and all the way through to my release point. That allowed hitters to track the ball the entire way. Now that I’m in line, my arm is more behind my body, and I’m not out there saying, ‘Here it comes, here it comes. Ready? Here you go. See it? Here it comes.’”

Will a cleaner delivery and no more here-it-comes sliders turn around Coke’s career? He didn’t get much of a chance with the Cubs, with whom he fell victim to a numbers crunch. Time will tell if he can make a difference with the Jays."
uglyone - Sunday, June 14 2015 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#302702) #
some nice insight on Coke that provides promise, from a totally unbiased non-toronto source. he's made distinct changes in his arsenal and approach which may or may not make him better but will most definitely change his pitching profile...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-cleveland-taijuan-coke-more/

"Phil Coke has changed more than uniforms. He’s also tweaked his delivery and swapped his signature slider for a combination of cutters and curveballs. He needed to. As the 32-year-old southpaw put it, “I was tired of working so hard on something that didn’t seem to be working so much anymore.”

If you’re a Tigers fan, you probably read those words and thought “No (expletive).” Coke had his moments in Motown, but recent seasons – especially 2013 – were littered with ugly outings. As a result, Detroit bid him adieu in the offseason. After a brief hookup with the Cubs, the refurbished reliever is now a Blue Jay. He joined the north-of-the-border ball club on Friday.

Coke instituted his changes this winter, working with Poway, California-based pitching instructor Dominick Johnson. The repertoire change came with consistency in mind. Coke’s slider was lethal when sharp, but too often was flat and found gaps.

“In years past, I hung a lot of breaking balls,” admitted Coke, who hasn’t thrown a slider all season. “The way my cutter comes out of my hand is just easier to repeat.”

Mechanics were a big reason his slider was erratic. He wasn’t always getting on top of the ball, and his motion was a big reason why. Correcting that was crucial to his remaking.

“I’m not at a 45 (degree angle) and turning my back to the hitter anymore,” said Coke. “What it comes down is creating angles. With sharper angles – being closed off – your body has to repeatedly fight through to get to a consistent release point. I was getting rotational, trying to get out of those angles.

“My arm stroke was also getting too long. As soon as I separated out of my glove, you could see the ball all the way up to the top, and all the way through to my release point. That allowed hitters to track the ball the entire way. Now that I’m in line, my arm is more behind my body, and I’m not out there saying, ‘Here it comes, here it comes. Ready? Here you go. See it? Here it comes.’”

Will a cleaner delivery and no more here-it-comes sliders turn around Coke’s career? He didn’t get much of a chance with the Cubs, with whom he fell victim to a numbers crunch. Time will tell if he can make a difference with the Jays."
hypobole - Sunday, June 14 2015 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#302704) #
Yeah, I read the Coke writeup earlier.

Odd that he hasn't thrown a slider all season and added a curveball, but if you look at pitch type on Coke's page it says he hasn't thrown a curve all season and thrown between 13-16% sliders.

When a pitcher changes his repertoire so dramatically, how can past statistics/performance be used in any predictive fashion? I know we hate kowtowing to authority, but at least until we see for ourselves, pretty well have to give the Jays decision makers the benefit of the doubt as to whether Coke can pitch effectively in the majors.
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