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Just don't drive after.

Here's some cheer, Player's Association style. I suppose I really shouldn't be surprised that the Union is spreading around the 'C' word but any time a Miguel Tejada-type gets signed to 6 years and $72MM, I'm inclined to think that the owner's aren't all on the same page.

Happy Holidays, everyone!
Hijack Central: Have a Cup of Holiday Cheer | 122 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Spicol - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 09:53 AM EST (#81750) #
BTW, the link above is for ESPN Insiders only. Essentially, the Union is seeking more evidence that the owners are colluding.

Listen, Fehr and cronies - there used to be lower numbers of free agents in an offseason, certainly fewer than 250something. You're going to have to hold what equates to a Sale in order to clear your inventory. That's not collusion, that's Adam Smith at it's finest.
_Ryan F. - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 10:04 AM EST (#81751) #
Quantrill to the Yanks...ho-hum.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 10:33 AM EST (#81752) #
http://www.syracuse.com/sports/poststandard/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1072172271111530.xml
Some minor league signings:

left-handed pitcher Dave Maurer,
right-hander Josue Matos and
outfielder Noah Hall

COMN for more details. Maurer sounds interesting.
_mathesond - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 11:05 AM EST (#81753) #
Any idea as to the ages of Maurer, Matos and Hall?
_Rob - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 11:21 AM EST (#81754) #
Maurer is 28, Matos is 25, and Hall is 26
_Robbie Goldberg - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 12:15 PM EST (#81755) #
To me, it seems like Matos has the most upside, though when your dealing with minor league free agents, these guys probably have a very miniscule chance of even becoming last-resort bullpen pitchers.
_mathesond - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 02:18 PM EST (#81756) #
Bit of a hijack here, something that arrived in my email from baseballlibrary.com

"28 YEARS AGO TODAY (December 23, 1975):
Arbitrator Peter Seitz announces a landmark decision in favor of the Players'Association, making pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally free agents. Seitz is immediately fired by John Gaherin, chairman of the owners' Player Relations Committee. McNally, who retired June 8th, will not return to the ML, finishing with a 184-119 career record.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/chronology/1975DECEMBER.stm#day23

Gotta love the management-labour history here!
_lurker - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 03:26 PM EST (#81757) #
Speaking of the "C" word, you should read Gammons's latest "insight" into the breakdown of the potential ARod deal. Funny stuff.

Perhaps the funniest bit was his insistence that the Boston front office had painted itself into a corner by telling Nomar that they offered him $12MM/year because (essentially) he was 1.33 times the player Tejada was, and Tejada would get only $9MM/year as a FA. Now that Tejada got $12MM for the O's, according to Gammons, that just gives Nomar room to argue that he deserves $16MM on the open market.

The funny bit, though, is later, when Gammons discusses collusion. He asks the rhetorical question, "If there's no collusion, how could the Red Sox have been so sure that Tejada would get $9MM?" Hey, Peter, Tejada didn't GET $9MM! He got $12MM! Would the actual event tend to be more relevant than the Red Sox FO's statement about what they THOUGHT Tejada would get in the open market?
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 05:36 PM EST (#81758) #
Lofton did sign with the Yankees according to the AP release on espn.con.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 05:53 PM EST (#81759) #
http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2496
From BP on Talley Haines:

Toronto Blue Jays - Talley Haines, RHP, Devil Rays, Age: 27
Haines is a split-finger artist who just might thrive as a reliever at the highest level. He's spent the last two seasons at Triple-A Durham and was quite impressive this last season... Barring injury, Haines should stick and be a productive member of the Toronto bullpen for the next few years.


COMN - premium article
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 08:38 PM EST (#81760) #
Pokey Reese signed a 1 year deal with the Red Sox. Reese and Bellhorn will play second for the Red Sox this year in place of Todd Walker and Damian Jackson.
_A - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 09:15 PM EST (#81761) #
Yankees officially get Lofton for 2 years, $6.2M. Not only is the price tag questionable but why give a 36 year old stop-gap signing a 2 year deal?...Oh yeah, because they can. Also because they can, Tom Gordon has a 2 year $7.25M contract.
_A - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 09:21 PM EST (#81762) #
To complete their deal with the Marlins, the A's have sent LHP Bill Murphy to the Sunshine State. Murphy was 7-4 with a 2.25 ERA for Single-A Kane County last season and 3-3 with a 4.09 ERA for Double-A Midland.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 09:56 PM EST (#81763) #
Yankees officially get Lofton for 2 years, $6.2M. Not only is the price tag questionable but why give a 36 year old stop-gap signing a 2 year deal?...

But to me, the best part is that the contract has some deferred money (same with Sheffield) so that the real value is lower, saving the Yanks a couple luxury tax dollars.
_Ben NS - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 10:05 PM EST (#81764) #
I find it hard to swallow when the Yanks throw 6 Million at Kenny Lofton and in Toronto, JP is pinching every penney. If you divided the Yanks' 185 million dollar payroll, you could field 3 winning major league teams and have some left over. I guess this just goes to show how that after a certain point, a lot more money helps a lot less.
_John Neary - Tuesday, December 23 2003 @ 10:16 PM EST (#81765) #
Sports-wired.com player pages:

Josue Matos
Dave Maurer
Noah Hall

Maurer made BP's All-Freely-Available Team a year ago. Dayn Perry notes that his home run rate is higher than one would like but his K/BB numbers are good.

As Mike Green pointed out on another thread, Matos has struggled in Puerto Rico this fall. His K/BB numbers are good, but he's given up nine four-baggers in 36-plus innings.

I can't see how Hall would ever make it to the majors in this organization.
_A - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 02:13 AM EST (#81766) #
saving the Yanks a couple luxury tax dollars
Pistol, I believe luxury tax is calculated with the average salery of each player over the life of his contract.
_A - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 03:12 AM EST (#81767) #
D-Backs sign Shane Reynolds and Steve Sparks to one-year contracts in an attempt to fill the spots in their rotation left vacant by Curt Shilling and El Artista. No financial terms were released.
Pistol - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 08:39 AM EST (#81768) #
Pistol, I believe luxury tax is calculated with the average salery of each player over the life of his contract.

It is, but the deferred money makes the value of the contract lower. So while it may be presented as 2 years $6.2 million, it may really be 2 years, $5.7 million in present value (which is what they'd use for the luxury tax).
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 11:07 AM EST (#81769) #
Todd Walker signed a 1 year deal with the Cubs.
_Wildrose - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 11:55 AM EST (#81770) #
I know this was posted on Primer a few days ago, but if you want to put a smile on your face, read this interview with Bauxite favourite Aaron Gleeman on this sight(scroll down to Dec 19th.).

In marked contrast to a certain, , cynical local Star columnist, you get the feeling this kid actually loves baseball. Best of the season to all Bauxites.
_Tassle - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 02:00 PM EST (#81771) #
I can't see how Hall would ever make it to the majors in this organization.
I don't know. Check out that OBP and walk rate. 91 walks in 491 innings with a .434 OBP is something that gets organizations like ours drooling. I could see him making it as a 4th outfielder down the road if we use some of our other young outfield guys as trade bait, which we're gonna have to do eventually. But 91 walks, that's just sick.
Joe - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 04:26 PM EST (#81772) #
http://me.woot.net
Spicol: owner's? :)
_John Neary - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 04:57 PM EST (#81773) #
Tassle,

I checked out Hall's OBP and walk rate. I also checked out his age (26 years, 6 months), his number of career at-bats above AA (2), and the list of outfielders blocking him (Wells, Cat, Johnson, Rios, Gross, Griffin, and possibly Jayson Werth and/or Jason Waugh.)

Perhaps I phrased things a bit too strongly. Hall could very well have a cup of coffee; if he gets extremely lucky, he could be Reed Johnson. But fourth outfielders seem to be much easier to come by than adequate relievers, so I'd put my money on Matos or Maurer over Hall. Moreover, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves in thinking that all of these MLFA's are being signed in the hopes that they'll make the 25-man -- some of them are probably being signed just to beef up the New Haven and Syracuse rosters.

John
_benum - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 04:58 PM EST (#81774) #
I'd love to see the Jays become a good defensive team (in time for the young pitching that is coming up). That is why I want to see O-Dog stay.

Here are the 2003 UZR numbers from TangoTiger

2003 Total Def runs per 162 games

1B Delgado -4
2B Hudson +21
SS Woodward 0
3B Hinske -15
LF Johnson 0 (33 games)
LF Catalanotto -13 (49 games)
CF Wells +5
RF Johnson -22 (50 games)
RF Catalanotto -38 (30 games)

Dearly Departed
LF Stewart -13 (73 games)
SS Bordick +21 (62 games)
3B Bordick +18 (18 games)
2B Bordick +27 (12 games)

I'm curious about how real the RF numbers are as the samples are on the small side.

Discuss...
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 06:03 PM EST (#81775) #
Shannon Stewart played 16 games in RF for Minnesota, and was scored plus 10 for his arm. The usual sample size warnings should be applied to these stats.

But, Frank Catalanotto has been measured as a below average defensive OF by UZR from 2001-03, and over a significant enough sample size, in my opinion. My impression was that he had average range, but that impression is apparently not accurate.
_A - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 06:28 PM EST (#81776) #
The MLBPA is reporting that the average salary in the Majors in 2003 was $2,372,189, an increase of 3.3%. Apparently this is the smallest increase the players have received since 1996 when it was only .8% (the predominent factor being the strike). Tampa spent the least on a per player basis, spending only $776,775. The Yankees had the highest average salary at $4,687,002 and first basemen held the highest average by position, $5.2M.

The Yankees also found out just in time for Christmas that their extravegant spending will cost them $11.82M in luxury tax.

And in the final installment of good news for the Bronx Bombers before Christmas, George Steinbrenner and other top Yankees' executives were subpoened by a New York state commission investigating the team's distribution of free tickets to public officials.
_A - Wednesday, December 24 2003 @ 09:37 PM EST (#81777) #
Spencer Fordin did a holiday interview with Mike Wilner. It was predominantly an educating anyone unfamiliar with how Jews asimilate on Christmas (and oh how he's right about movie theatres and Chinese restuarants being a Jews' choice by default on x-mas day!).

When the focus turned to baseball, Mike talked of the hardships felt by a father who spends most every weeknight at the ballpark instead of putting his daughter to sleep. In the end, Mike was asked to give his holiday wishes for the Jays, as well as another $15-20M he's requested...

"a long-term contract for Roy Halladay and a four-year extension for Carlos Delgado worth about $45 million. I'd also ask that Halladay, Delgado and Vernon Wells never, ever, ever, get hurt. And the big one, a move to the kinder, gentler AL Central division."
Mike Green - Saturday, December 27 2003 @ 04:51 PM EST (#81778) #
Here's a very wise move by the Texas Rangers. They signed Brian Jordan to a 1 year, 1.375 million contract with modest bonuses. A Boxing Week bargoon if I ever saw one.
_Ryan - Saturday, December 27 2003 @ 06:34 PM EST (#81779) #
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2003/27/c6867.html
In more real news (COMN), the Jays got their second lefty today, signing Valerio De Los Santos for $850,000. I have to say I'm underwhelmed by this one.

They also signed Chad Hermanson and Jayson Durocher to minor league deals.
Leigh - Saturday, December 27 2003 @ 06:43 PM EST (#81780) #
Durocher had a nice 2002 with the Brewers: 48 IP, 44 K, 21 BB, 1.88 ERA.
Lucas - Sunday, December 28 2003 @ 01:33 AM EST (#81781) #
Bad news to report: Ivan Calderon was shot and killed in Puerto Rico on Saturday.
_Mick - Sunday, December 28 2003 @ 01:53 AM EST (#81782) #
Here's a very wise move by the Texas Rangers. They signed Brian Jordan to a 1 year, 1.375 million contract with modest bonuses. A Boxing Week bargoon if I ever saw one.

If you were looking for a sign that the A-Rod/Manny deal is really, really, really (for real this time) not going to happen, this is it. Jordan will play the same OF position where Ramirez would have pla ... er, stood 'round with a glove on waiting to hit.
_Steve Z - Sunday, December 28 2003 @ 11:42 AM EST (#81783) #
According to Rotoworld.com, Toronto still seems to be a possible destination for Aurilia (probably the "primary alternative" to Seattle). The Rockies are no longer in the running, it seems, and might even look to trade for a young (and cheap) SS. The Denver Post mentions Guillen and, interestingly, Chris Woodward, as possibilities. Could the Jays sign Aurilia, while using the money saved (albeit only a few hundred thousand) by replacing Woody with Sequea on the roster?
Pistol - Sunday, December 28 2003 @ 05:28 PM EST (#81784) #
http://www.baseball-reference.com/
COMN and look in the upper left corner....
Lucas - Monday, December 29 2003 @ 02:53 PM EST (#81785) #
Cory Lidle is a Red.

1 year, $2.75 mill according to Rotoworld.
_benum - Monday, December 29 2003 @ 03:49 PM EST (#81786) #
The Denver Post mentions Guillen...
From near the end of the article:
"The Rockies have made an offer to reliever Cliff Politte that includes a roster spot, but haven't heard back"

Don't do it Cliff!!!
Mike Green - Monday, December 29 2003 @ 04:47 PM EST (#81787) #
It tempts fate for a pitcher named Cliff to play for the Rockies. The only people who may enjoy it are the headline writers, who aren't the nicest folks to begin with.
Lucas - Monday, December 29 2003 @ 05:16 PM EST (#81788) #
Texas signed David Dellucci. Buck Showalter is a fan of his. I'm afraid that instead of being a 4th or 5th outfielder, Dellucci could wind up in the heavy side of a platoon with Kevin Mench. Ugh.
Lucas - Monday, December 29 2003 @ 05:23 PM EST (#81789) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1696014
Brook Fordyce signed with Tampa Bay. COMN for exciting details.
Lucas - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 11:57 AM EST (#81790) #
http://bbfl.scottlucas.com
Richard Griffin sighting:

"If we had one wish for baseball in the new year it would be that more fans accept the game on the field for what it is and push away from the computer. We said so many times in print:

"(Baseball) has lost its imagination, colour and flair and is headed in the wrong direction. It used to be that the rite of passage for a baseball father and son was the moment a dad handed his youngster an old battered glove and took him to the yard to throw for the first time. Now, the rite of passage is the moment a dad hands his youngster his file folder of printouts and takes him to his first roto draft."


I don't know any fathers who have actually done this, but whatever. In any case, at my last football draft, everyone showed up with their laptops. Printouts? Bah.
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 12:20 PM EST (#81791) #
http://economics.about.com
Now, the rite of passage is the moment a dad hands his youngster his file folder of printouts and takes him to his first roto draft."

Meh. Doesn't he know that most roto players are childless geeks? :)

Mike
_Ryan Day - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 12:24 PM EST (#81792) #
Here's a good one:

The Jays are not now, nor will they ever be, interested in signing (Stewart) or Escobar to multi-year commitments." (Feb. 19, after Stew's '04 contract was settled before arbitration.)

Since the Jays offered Escobar a multi-year deal, one has to suspect they were interested in signing him to a multi-year committment. They may not have been interested in paying him very much, and Griffin was right to characterize the chances of re-signing him as "slim", but they did try to sign him to a long-term deal.

Strangely enough, Griffin doesn't refer to his suggestion that the Jays could lose 90 games.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 12:29 PM EST (#81793) #
If I have a problem with that passage of Griffin's it's that I think he overstates the problem. I imagine he puts those of us who frequent this website in the category of people who need to 'accept the game on the field for what it is and push away from the computer'. But, see, we do appreciate the on-field game. The computer, the internet, just helps us appreciate it more. God, I remember when I first became a baseball fan, and the winter was pure hell for me because there was no baseball to watch. Days would go by with no mention of baseball in the newspapers. That's not true anymore, not now that I can go to ESPN.com, to Blue Jay Way, to Primer, to Batter's Box, to any one of dozens of websites, and get all the baseball I need to tide me over until they start playing for real.

But when Griffin writes: "There is nothing wrong with going to an entertaining sports event for the joy of the game, not for the win", he's absolutely right, and I wish more fans would take this to heart.
_Marco - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 12:51 PM EST (#81794) #
i agree with comments that the internet does not push us farther from the game, but brings us much closer. when i was a kid i had to read the paper the next day to see how the jays did the previous night (i've never lived in toronto). now i watch most games on mlbvideo, or listen to tom and jerry on mlbaudio, or at least have a gamecast up on my computer. and i read every recap on espn and mlb and check this site hourly. all hail the internet! i can see the jays live only once a year-their may venture to chicago to play the white sox.
Lucas - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 01:23 PM EST (#81795) #
Jason Johnson signs with Detroit. 2 and $7.

Detroit is spending about $10 million on Johnson, Vina, and Rondell White. Whatever floats your boat.
_Ryan - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 02:50 PM EST (#81796) #
Except for the Clemens unretiring bit, the predictions Griffin is claiming victory for were all of the "Well, duh..." variety. It was obvious well before Griffin wrote his February piece that Stewart most likely would not be back.

And isn't this quote from Griffin...


3. We were correct on opening day regarding what the Jays needed to have happen to compete in the difficult AL East.

"Carlos Delgado and Roy Halladay need to have huge years. Delgado, the team's highest-paid player, must return to the monster stats he posted in 2000. ... Halladay, at 26, must build on that 19-7 record. If he improves, he will win between 23-25 games, challenging for a Cy Young."


...a lot like saying "if the Blue Jays want to compete, they must play well"? Of course, those two did have big years and the Blue Jays, while good, still didn't compete.

If these items were the only things Griffin was right about during the past year, he should be embarrassed.
_A - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 05:35 PM EST (#81797) #
Since when is a person with the following description worth $3.5M per season???
Johnson, 30, was the Orioles' second-winningest starter behind Sidney Ponson last season, going 10-10 with a 4.18 ERA in 189 2/3 innings. His victories matched a career high, set in 2001.

Even for the Tigers this seems excessive for marginal starting talent. Especially considering is K/BB was 1.45 and he allowed 216 hits, including 22 homers, it's no wonder Johnson is quoted saying he likes the direction the club is going in.
_Mick - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 05:58 PM EST (#81798) #
Another Blue Jays - A's connection ...

The A's have hired Justin's pa Chris Speier to be their bench coach.
_R Billie - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 06:48 PM EST (#81799) #
Detroit is spending about $10 million on Johnson, Vina, and Rondell White. Whatever floats your boat.

Such is the cost of trying to save your job and getting people to join a club that lost nearly 120 games.
_Ryan Day - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 07:41 PM EST (#81800) #
Since when is a person with the following description worth $3.5M per season???

I dunno... next to spending $3 million for two years of Fernando Vina, Johnson looks like a great signing.
Craig B - Tuesday, December 30 2003 @ 08:50 PM EST (#81801) #
Griffin writes: "There is nothing wrong with going to an entertaining sports event for the joy of the game, not for the win

Presumably then, Griff would be overjoyed to see the Jays cut the payroll to $10 million and become the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. After all, the "joy of the game" is the thing, and not the win.

I am so glad I gave up entirely on reading that guy.
Lucas - Wednesday, December 31 2003 @ 03:02 AM EST (#81802) #
David Wells signs with the Padres. Well, the New York Post says so, anyway.

1 year, $1.5-$1.75 plus incentives that could double the money.

Any deal involving a 40-year-old with back trouble is high-risk, but San Diego isn't forking over too much money and Wells might have another worthwhile season in him. He's pitched at least 200 innings with an ERA+ of at least 103 in seven of the last nine years. A solid signing.
_Gwyn - Wednesday, December 31 2003 @ 09:26 AM EST (#81803) #
More crazy ARod rumours. Surfing a few blogs this morning and a couple mention ARod to the Yankees for Giambi and Soriano. Jeter to third, Boone to 2nd.
No attribution just rumours. Will Carroll also mentions that Giambi 'may deal with the same sorts of issues that JD Drew did during the 2003 season. Ouchie.'
_R Billie - Wednesday, December 31 2003 @ 11:46 AM EST (#81804) #
I wonder if the Padres will still pursue Maddux now. I think they might but the signing gives them a little more leverage in negotiations. Of course with Wells out of the mix maybe the Yankees will now be interested in Maddux.
_R Billie - Wednesday, December 31 2003 @ 11:51 AM EST (#81805) #
Rotoworld is also reporting that Aurilia is close to signing with the Mariners and that Carlos Guillen may be sent to Detroit afterwards.

Javier Vazquez is also close to a 4 year $45 million deal with the Yankees. Which is a pretty nice price for a true front line starter even in today's market. I would expect a similar deal for Halladay but slightly lower due to the fact they're buying out arbitration years as well as free agency.
_Andy - Wednesday, December 31 2003 @ 12:46 PM EST (#81806) #
As odd as Detroit's signings are, I wonder if they are trying the old, "sign a guy to get prospects at the deadline" deal, similar to what Pittsburgh was able to do with Suppan and Lofton this year. I would say that nobody in their right mind would want an inconsistent pitcher like Johnson (you could rationalize his record with the fact that he played for the Orioles-like the Tigers will be any better-but that ERA is no great shakes), or Vina, but hey, Jeff Suppan was traded for Freddy Sanchez, so anything is possible.

The Padres have some pretty good bats with Nevin, Klesko, and Giles, and some decent infield prospects coming up (like Khalil Greene), so I'd say in a year or two they could be pretty good, but signing Wells seems to show that they are gunning for 2004. I don't know about that, and Wells isn't exactly the right guy to mentor young pitchers like Peavy and Lawrence. Maddux is.
_R Billie - Thursday, January 01 2004 @ 12:18 PM EST (#81807) #
Wells doesn't represent a tremendous investment for the Padres. In fact he's probably a much better deal than the Jays' $5 million investment in one year of Lidle. They have more money to spend in their situation this year and even if they don't make the playoffs they do want to put a huge dent in their win total. They need some veterans to complement Peavy and company and maybe they still have enough room to sign Maddux.
_Gwyn - Friday, January 02 2004 @ 08:12 PM EST (#81808) #
Dan Plesac was offered a job as a Jays colour analyst unfortunately he said no.
Lucas - Friday, January 02 2004 @ 09:12 PM EST (#81809) #
Is Plesac mediagenic or is the current analyst deficient?
Coach - Friday, January 02 2004 @ 09:44 PM EST (#81810) #
Is Plesac mediagenic or is the current analyst deficient?

A resounding "yes" on both counts. Plesac is smart, funny and a great talker. There's a platoon of Cerutti and Candiotti on one network, with Pat Tabler on the other, and all of them make us long for the days of Buck Martinez -- the analyst, not the manager. I've always thought David Cone would be good, if he's interested.

Plesac loves his horses.

"This is all I’ve really wanted to do my entire life. I always hoped to have a career that would lead me to be secure enough to train and have my own horses. The first half of my dream has come true with my baseball career."

When he gets one good enough to race at Woodbine, maybe we'll see him around the Dome again.
_Ryan - Friday, January 02 2004 @ 11:04 PM EST (#81811) #
I've thought for years that Plesac would be a natural as a colour analyst. He has the right personality for it and a good voice. I'm glad one of the networks at least asked him about a job.

Darrin Fletcher is another one I thought could wind up doing colour. Whenever he was being interviewed on television, he was funny and informative, and seemed to have good poise in front of the camera. He's another one who should be on a list of options for the Jays colour job.

Has anyone heard who might be replacing Rob Faulds (or if he'll be replaced at all)? Anyone know if Mike Wilner is being seriously considered?
_Steve Z - Saturday, January 03 2004 @ 01:27 PM EST (#81812) #
Rios was 1-2 with 2 BB yesterday, as play resumed in the PR league. (It was a playoff game, I presume, as #1 Caguas was facing #3 Santurce, with #2 Ponce facing #4 San Juan; BA's boxscores also show new statistics).

Miguel Negron, my candidate for "Blue Jays Breakout Prospect of 2004," went 1-3 with a SO.

TheMinorsFirst.com ranked Rios #3 overall in its 2004 Top100 Prospects List. Quiroz (#30), Mcgowan (#39), and Gross (#72) round out the Jays making TMF's list:

Rios had a fantastic breakout season in the Eastern League last summer. You can't argue with his tools. But, he is still raw in some important areas. His knowledge of the strike zone isn't Major League ready and while he has very good speed, he at times seems like a novice on the bases. He has so far offset the prior by having great plate coverage and he has had a knack for making consistent hard contact. You don't often see 6'6" center fielders in the Majors. I'm assuming he'll eventually be a corner outfielder. Rios could become a mega-star, yet I still consider him risky. His awesome performance in winter ball vaulted him over Jeremy Reed as the top OF.

Any other "Breakout 2004" predictions? (preferably prospects nowhere near the top 10 right now)
_Dr. Zarco - Saturday, January 03 2004 @ 02:02 PM EST (#81813) #
I love seeing that there's only one Yankee on the list.
_Jonny German - Saturday, January 03 2004 @ 02:54 PM EST (#81814) #
Steve, thanks for the link to The Minors First, I've started up a separate thread for discussion of that list.

I call Brandon League for a breakout.
_Steve Z - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 06:02 AM EST (#81815) #
In their second playoff game, the Rios/Negron duo was at it again for Caguas. Rios (RF) went 2-5 with a 3B and 2 RBI, while Negron (LF)was 2-3 with a BB and SB.
_John Neary - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 09:25 AM EST (#81816) #
Steve: Who's playing CF for Caguas? I'd like to know who bumped Rios to RF.

Also, what's your source for PRL game reports?
Mike Green - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 09:52 AM EST (#81817) #
John, in BA's website under Stats, you'll find "Fall/Winter Leagues". The Puerto Rican League is one of the leagues there, and they have boxscores.

Luis Matos has been playing CF for Caguas. It's quite a team, with Alex Cintron and Alex Cora being the double play combination, but Rios has been easily the best player.
_John Neary - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 01:18 PM EST (#81818) #
Mike,

Thanks -- I was using that page for winter league stats, but I forgot that the boxscores were linked from there as well. I thought that BA was publishing boxscores but I was foolish enough to look under "Scoreboards."

John
_Jabonoso - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 02:26 PM EST (#81819) #
it is difficult to follow winter ball in the net, best bet is BA but even they choose to publish something leaving some stuff out.
Juan Diaz a cuban slugger is batting very well in his fourth slot with the Caguas team. Negron is also an excellent CF so that Of most be quite spectacular ( like seattle's: 3 cfs roaming the pastures ) and PR parks tend to be in the smaller size spectrum.
My breakthrough candidate ( a candid one ) is Chacin. He definitely tired out last month of his pitching in Lara but still his numbers are spectacular.
_Jordan - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 02:34 PM EST (#81820) #
My breakout candidate: Jesse Harper. You read it here first.
_John Neary - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 04:02 PM EST (#81821) #
Wow, a breakout candidate free-for-all. I'll take Vince Perkins before all the good ones are gone. Mind you, Perkins and League are pretty fair top-10 prospects (I'll bet that BA has one of them as high as sixth), so that's not really fair. Make mine DJ Hanson.

Who's left? ... Chad Pleiness? Adam Peterson? It's hard to call anyone from Auburn a breakout candidate.

And who was the Jays' breakout prospect of the year this year? Rios, Quiroz, McGowan, Bush, and Gross were on a lot of top 10 prospect lists, IIRC. Reed Johnson? Simon Pond? Jorge Sequea? Bubbie Buzachero? OK, I'm pushing it with Buzachero.
_Donkit R.K. - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 04:47 PM EST (#81822) #
I'm tabbing Peterson.
Mike Green - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 05:20 PM EST (#81823) #
I'll take a real longshot: Rodney Medina.
_Jordan - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 06:18 PM EST (#81824) #
And who was the Jays' breakout prospect of the year this year?

As quickly as Rios and McGowan became top prospects, Guillermo Quiroz was not considered nearly as highly by many observers before this past season. He really put everything together this year, at a very young age and at a level higher than he'd ever played before. Among lesser-known names, Pond has to be considered the out-of-nowhere breakout guy of 2003.

This leads inevitably to the question of who was the biggest prospect disappointment of 2003? And even though it may be unfair, what with a groin injury and all, I think that title goes to Dominic Rich.
Lucas - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 06:47 PM EST (#81825) #
http://bbfl.scottlucas.com
Juan Gonzalez signs with Royals.

1 and $4, incentives could push it to $6.

A dramatic upgrade from Ken Harvey or any outfielder not named Beltran, unless he breaks down again.
_S.K. - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 09:17 PM EST (#81826) #
Wow, another solid move by KC. I haven't been overwhelmed by anything they've done this winter, but almost every move has made sense (and they're not throwing away their future).
_S.K. - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 09:42 PM EST (#81827) #
On the other hand, this does block David DeJesus from the majors.
Anyone know anything about DeJesus, how far along he's supposed to be, etc? IIRC, he was supposed to be just about ready - he's now guaranteed another full year in AAA.
Pistol - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 10:04 PM EST (#81828) #
I don't think Gonzalez will be blocking Dejesus.

If Sweeney plays 1B most of the time, you have Gonzalez, Guiel, Stairs and Dejesus splitting time between the 2 corner OFs and DH.

Jays '04 minor league breakout - Miguel Negron
_S.K. - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 10:12 PM EST (#81829) #
I don't think Ken Harvey will be cut loose, so that's five now. Unless you're going to keep one of Stairs or Harvey nailed to the bench, I'm not sure DeJesus would get enough playing time for it to be worth bringing him up.
_Steve Z - Sunday, January 04 2004 @ 11:44 PM EST (#81830) #
If I had another couple selections for "breakout candidate" I'd take Tracy "Tree" Thorpe, and Robinzon Diaz (who had a breakout season this year really, with very little fanfare, since it was at Low A). Diaz will also be the Jays' 2006 World Series catcher (Yes, he will supplant Cash, and even Quiroz in the next couple years).
_Steve Z - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 02:19 AM EST (#81831) #
And the beat goes on... Rios was 2-6 with 2 HR and 6 RBI yesterday (a grand slam and two-run shot, assumes Captain Obvious) as Caguas took a commanding 3-0 lead in their best-of-seven series with San Juan (edging them again, this time by a 9-8 margin). Negron didn't play, and Pond has been MIA for Santurce for several days now. Does anyone have any idea what happened to him?
_Steve Z - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 06:46 AM EST (#81832) #
Oops. That should read 2-5, not 2-6 for Rios.
Coach - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 11:26 AM EST (#81833) #
John-Ford Griffin is my breakout guy; by the end of this season everyone will know where to hyphenate his name. If Griffin is "ineligible" because he's already had so much publicity, I'll go with Ryan Roberts.
_John Neary - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 11:33 AM EST (#81834) #
Steve -- It must have been two three-run shots:


CAGUAS AB R H BI
A.Cora 2B 4 2 2 0
J.Munoz 3B 4 2 1 0
A.Rios RF 5 2 2 6
J.Diaz 1B 5 1 1 1
L.Matos CF 3 1 0 0
J.Pachot DH 4 1 1 1
A.Cintron SS 4 0 1 0
H.Ortiz CAT 4 0 1 1
J.Padilla LF 4 0 0 0

(boxscore excerpt cited from BA)

If Rios had hit a grand slam, one of Cintron, Ortiz, or Padilla would have had to score on it.

This has got to be the pettiest post ever ;)
Mike Green - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 12:11 PM EST (#81835) #
John, figuring out what happened from a boxscore is a pet hobby of mine. Well done.

For clutch hitting aficionados, your deduction also means that Rios hit the game-winning 3-run shot in the 7th for Caguas. Caguas won despite being outhit 16-9, thanks to Rios' heroics and 5 double plays (Cintron and Cora being the likely major participants).
Craig B - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 12:18 PM EST (#81836) #
Can a Triple Crown winner break out? I suppose not, though I'd love to pick Vito Chiaravalloti, I think he will do very well in the FSL.

My candidate (given how many have already been taken) is Bubbie Buzachero, who I think will be killer as the Dunedin closer... good enough to be moved up to AA.
_Jabonoso - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 12:55 PM EST (#81837) #
Pond is not playing winter ball, anymore. It is always a frustrating matter that MLB teams pull out their players at very odd times. It may very well be that Caguas are in the Caribean series, having a very good shot at it, but somebody decides that: a) rios season has been very long, b) it is time to travel to Dunedin to meet with brass c) exactly now, chances for an injure are not worth taking...
above is an example of things that happen all the time and that nobody really understand the logic behind. Why Pond is not playing? Does he has to do some paper work? hard to understand, I hope he gets all the chances to play for team Canada this summer...
Gerry - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 02:53 PM EST (#81838) #
It could be that Pond went home for Christmas and is not going back. Spring training is six weeks away, Yippee!
_Ken - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 04:51 PM EST (#81839) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1700328
I don't think the Vaquez contract has been mentioned anywhere else on BB. Looks like the Yanks got a good deal, COMN.
I think that while on the face of it the Yankees have a great pitcher in his prime for the next 4 years, this isn't all bad news for the Jays. You have to like what this contract does for Toronto with regards to the price of tying up Halladay.
_Andy Martin - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 06:28 PM EST (#81840) #
I'll go with Nick Thomas as my breakout candidate. He has a nice blend of power, average, and plate discipline. He's still fairly young, he turns 21 in february. Also Left handed hitters who are converted pitchers seem to have a good chance for success. At least in the cases of Babe Ruth and Stan Musial they did. Didn't Ted Williams start out a pitcher as well?
_Steve Z - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 07:28 PM EST (#81841) #
ESPN.com's John Sickels answered a few questions today regarding some underrated pitching prospects, including Jays' farmhand Jamie Vermilyea (he of the "eye-popping K/BB ratio"):

Vermilyea's fastball is average, but his splitter and slider are sharp, and his command is exquisite. The lack of a plus fastball keeps him out of the Bush/McGowan/Banks class, but I think Vermilyea is just a notch below that. His ratios are exceptional. We need to see what he can do in Double-A, but I am very optimistic about his chances.
_S.K. - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 09:54 PM EST (#81842) #
Gotta love ESPN not mentioning anything about the Vazquez contract until the 11th paragraph of a story titled 'Pitcher Agrees to Four-Year Deal'.
Mike Green - Monday, January 05 2004 @ 10:08 PM EST (#81843) #
Tug McGraw passed away today from brain cancer. He was a likable character, and a fine reliever. He will be missed.

Is it just me or were there a lot of untimely deaths from brain cancer among the players/managers of the late 70s and early 80s? Howser, Quiz and now McGraw. Several others from the era have, I think, survived it. I have no idea how common brain cancer is, but it does make me wonder in particular about Astroturf.
_Steve Z - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 06:19 AM EST (#81844) #
Here's a frightened Scott Rex (of OnDeckBaseball.com) on Rios' latest barage:

I'm writing this from my winter home on Mars because it's the safest place to be right now. Why am I so scared? Blue Jays RF Alexis Rios is frightening me. Rios once again blew down the PRL doors yesterday, going deep twice and driving in 6 runs to help power Caguas to a 9-8 victory over San Juan. Rios has now hit 14 homers in 43 games this winter. Crayzay. Hold on. I just heard somthing crash in my backyard. I'm now moving to my panic room.
_Ryan - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 08:59 AM EST (#81845) #
Hold on. I just heard somthing crash in my backyard.

That was the Beagle 2.
_Steve Z - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 11:21 AM EST (#81846) #
Sickels: "The lack of a plus fastball keeps him out of the Bush/McGowan/Banks class, but I think Vermilyea is just a notch below that."

Comparing Vermilyea to Bush, McGowan, and Banks seems to imply that Sickels sees (or projects) Vermilyea as a starter as well. Does he know something that we don't, because from what I've read, Jamie's more than happy staying in short relief.
_Jordan - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 11:45 AM EST (#81847) #
Jeff Cirillo to the Padres for Kevin Jarvis, Wiki Gonzalez and Dave Hansen; the Mariners pick up most of Cirillo's salary and take two other contracts off San Diego's hands. Nice deal for the Padres, even if Cirillo is only ever an infield backup and bench bat: he's not a .205 hitter, and he simply has to rebound to some extent. I still have no idea what they're doing in Seattle.

Vermilyea has expressed a preference for relief, which is fairly unusual for a young pitcher, and heaven knows the Jays could use bullpen help sooner rather than later. But I'm sure the organization will put him in the rotation in Dunedin early in the season and see what happens -- if he's really as good as he's shown so far, he needs to be a starter. The pen will always be there as a fallback option.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 12:02 PM EST (#81848) #
I'm not as sure how the organization will deal with Vermilyea's preference, in light of the glut of starting pitching prospects for Dunedin and Charleston. A rotation of League, Perkins, Rosario, Banks and Isenberg in Dunedin wouldn't be chopped liver. Alternatively, they could try a tandem starter regime, with Vermilyea, Hanson and Chris Leonard or Tom Mastny thrown in the mix.

Personally, I would try to work with a pitcher's preferences. Better an effective reliever than a less effective starter. The player himself probably knows his own arm, and its tolerances, better than management.
_S.K. - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 12:12 PM EST (#81849) #
Terrible winter to be a fan in Seattle. Does anyone know if Gillick endorsed Bavasi as his successor? I'm assuming from the degree to which the Mariners are being torn apart that Gillick will be as horrified as everyone else who wants to see the Mariners succeed.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 01:34 PM EST (#81850) #
Robbie Alomar has decided to sign with the D-Backs according to espn.com. Salary details have not been released.
_Andrew Edwards - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 01:51 PM EST (#81851) #
Primates say Molitor and Eckersley and that's it. Sandberg in 3rd.
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 01:54 PM EST (#81852) #
I believe Dick Scott said that Vermilyea will be starting next year. (COMN) I'd imagine he'll start out in Dunedin like Bush did this year.
Pistol - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 02:00 PM EST (#81853) #
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/book/
No more cover jinx! COMN
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 02:33 PM EST (#81854) #
http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00000857.shtml
Oops, I forgot the link.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 03:20 PM EST (#81855) #
Unfortunately, Ryan, the link to the article doesn't work. Dick Scott's comments which are referred to in the thread were made prior to Rosario's performance in the instructional league.

Vermilyea's build is tall and lanky. Asking him to start could get you another David Bush, or it could get you another Justin Maureau. It's easy to be persuaded that he is capable of starting because of his varied repertoire, and forget the injury risk issue. Vermilyea threw over 170 innings last year, between college and pro. It would probably be better for him if he threw less than that this year.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 03:31 PM EST (#81856) #
Steve Z - I think Sickels made that comparison, only because the e-mailer did.
_Ben NS - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 04:16 PM EST (#81857) #
Plesac is brilliant with the mike; relaxed, poised, informative, humourous, insightful. Having said that, Mike Wilner is the man and is by far the best part of the Blue Jays' radio program and better than anyone I've ever heard in Detroit, Chicago or Cleveland. Okay, I guess I've got to put Ernie Harwell on a separate level, but let's say that he's the most interestng non-hall-of-fame radio announcer I've ever heard.
_Ben NS - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 04:16 PM EST (#81858) #
Plesac is brilliant with the mike; relaxed, poised, informative, humourous, insightful. Having said that, Mike Wilner is the man and is by far the best part of the Blue Jays' radio program and better than anyone I've ever heard in Detroit, Chicago or Cleveland. Okay, I guess I've got to put Ernie Harwell on a separate level, but let's say that he's the most interestng non-hall-of-fame radio announcer I've ever heard.
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 06:04 PM EST (#81859) #
Mike, obviously Vermilyea would throw less than 170 innings whether he was in the rotation or not. And that 170 was thrown over a span of 7 months instead of 5. I think we both have enough faith in the Jays organization to trust that they would not put his arm through any unnecessary risk. He certainly has a much more suitable frame for starting than Maureau.

I'd definitely take the risk of Vermilyea turning into another Maureau if there was just as good a chance he'd turn into another Bush. Of course I'm not nearly as down on Maureau as most Bauxites seem to be. He was very solid in his first couple starts before imploding after the injury. He had an ERA over 10 for a while IIRC. In the second half, he was very quietly one of the better pitchers in a strong Dunedin bullpen. I'm expecting a big year for Maureau next season.

I don't think Rosario's performance has changed things much. He was always expected to be in the picture next season. I like the tandem starters idea, at least for the first couple months while they are still stretching their arms out. Then once the injuries/breakouts/flops start to occur they can start spreading those 8-10 pitchers out between Manchester and Charleston.
_Steve Z - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 06:26 PM EST (#81860) #
In addition to acquiring Baez today, The Rays signed former-Jay Trever Miller (1 yr/$650,000 + performance bonuses).
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 07:55 PM EST (#81861) #
Ryan, I too still like Maureau, but the failed effort to make him a starter will significantly affect his career IMO.

I would have no problem with Vermilyea as a tandem starter, going 4 innings or so every 4th or 5th day. Heck, he was more or less in this role last year. But, I wouldn't ask him to go 6 or 7 innings every 5th day unless he wanted to.
_R Billie - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 10:01 PM EST (#81862) #
There is apparently a report from ESPN which says the Jays have signed Terry Adams to a one year $1.7 million deal. I don't get ESPN and I haven't found confirmation from a news source on the web but if it's true this is a nice addition. Adams features decent strikeout numbers, good homeruns allowed, strong groundball tendancies, and a balanced performance versus lefties and righties. He walks a few too many guys but as an added bonus he can also start if needed which gives the Jays what I feel is much needed insurance for injury or ineffectiveness in the middle to back of the rotation.
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 10:35 PM EST (#81863) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor
COMN for confirmation. Under "Players Signed" at the top, and a bit down the page on the right. Closer?
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 10:41 PM EST (#81864) #
As a reliever in the National League, Adams has been consistently above average (ERA +'s of 145, 93, 101, 121, 122 and 156 in seasons over 60 innings in which he wasn't a starter). Last season was his best, and it was his age 30 year. I don't think he should do any closing in the midst of A-Lo, Speier, and Ligtenberg but I do think he'll be a valuable fourth member of this 'pen (which, IMO, looks like it could be a strength now with those four and Jason Kershner...as long as Jason is as good as I think he is). After the best season of his career, he just took a 1.2 million dollar pay cut. I think that says something about the current market and, hopefully, the repuatation of J.P.'s Jays. I don't think he'll be as good as last year, I guess, but an ERA + of about 115 in 70ish innings sounds alright.
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 11:05 PM EST (#81865) #
After the best season of his career, he just took a 1.2 million dollar pay cut. I think that says something about the current market and, hopefully, the repuatation of J.P.'s Jays.

I think it probably has more to do with the 2 assault charges, 1 harassment charge and 1 child endagement charge that Adams is/was facing for alledgedly attacking his wife while his 4 month old son was in the room back in July.
_Jonny German - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 11:41 PM EST (#81866) #
Thanks for the scoop on Adams, guys. I've got a separate thread ready to go, but I want to hold off on posting it until I see a more solid confirmation. Coach doesn't take rookie mistakes lightly!
Coach - Tuesday, January 06 2004 @ 11:52 PM EST (#81867) #
Jonny, go ahead and post your Adams thread. This has been confirmed on The Score and ESPN, so if it turns out to be premature, I won't hold you responsible.
_Jonny German - Wednesday, January 07 2004 @ 12:09 AM EST (#81868) #
Done!
Mike Green - Wednesday, January 07 2004 @ 11:39 AM EST (#81869) #
There's an interesting comment on Angel reliever Derrick Turnbow's use of andro: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040107turnbow.html.

He's now throwing 98 mph, and will be invited to spring training notwithstanding his suspension from Olympic participation. Andro is apparently available in over-the-counter nutritional supplements in the US. As Barry Bonds has said that he does not use steroids, but has used over-the-counter nutritional supplements, I fear that he too may have taken a supplement containing andro and that his recent records may be tarnished in the same way that Mark McGwire's were.

More generally, if MLB has plans to go global, it had better start worrying about its image.
robertdudek - Thursday, January 08 2004 @ 01:49 AM EST (#81870) #
There is little doubt that many many nutritional supplements contain substances that are (or soon will be) banned by the IOC. An athlete literally has no idea what they're ingesting, as many tested samples of supplements contained different substances than were stated on the label.
Mike Green - Thursday, January 08 2004 @ 10:17 AM EST (#81871) #
That's true. Andro is a substance that is banned by the IOC for very good reasons. It is a performance-enhancing drug with significant long-term health effects. And, as the Turnbow article points out, it was in a nutritional supplement, without any identification. The athlete may indeed have had no knowledge that he was on steroids.

It's hard to believe that the situation could have gotten worse after the Johnson disqualification and the Dubin inquiry, but at least Ben Johnson was aware that he was taking steroids, and these were administered by a doctor who suffered professional sanction for his acions. As these nutritional supplements do not require a prescription, no one need take responsibility for the consequences of their use.

Where are the athlete's unions on this issue of obvious importance to their members?
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