I'll be the first to ask
Who?

Did we get a player to be born at a later date?

Switch-hitter John Hattig is batting .298/.413/.523 in 262 ABs thus far this season in AA.

If he ever makes the bigs, he'll be the first major leaguer born in Guam.

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/hattig-john.htm
COMN for John Hattig's page on SoxProspects.com. Born 02/27/80 in Decedo, Guam, 6'2, 215, Bats Switch Throws Right. Drafted in the 25th round 1998.

Hattig is 24 yrs old. Excellent Plate Discipline, good fielder, decent speed, and has pop in his bat.

He was drafted in the 25th round in 1998.

Was the 2003 Sarasota Player of the Year.

Pretty old to still be in AA.

B/B- type prospect.

Very rare to trade within your own division.

At least the Jays can save a couple of thousand dollars by dumping Adams. Don't forget Hentgen retired so he won't be paid for the rest of the season either.

With the Jays so thin on pitching which 2 guys will be called up? Is File still on the roster? If so I would expect him to be sent down.

With the Jays so thin on pitching which 2 guys will be called up? Is File still on the roster? If so I would expect him to be sent down.

File was sent down when Frederick was called up this week.

The majority guess is that Sean Douglass will take the vacant spot in the rotation to replace Hentgen.

How has Douglas pitched this season?

Dont the blue jays need to call up two pitchers? File or Nakamura back with Douglas.

Here's a link, it's official

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp?content=20040724_204206_2488

I wonder if Hattig will be sent to Syracuse, with Glenn Williams headed off to Athens. As a 1998 draftee, I think Hattig is eligible for the Rule 5 draft if not added to the 40-man... it's going to be quite a crunch this year, with all 2002 college draftees becoming R5 eligible.

My early take: Good trade.

it's going to be quite a crunch this year, with all 2002 college draftees becoming R5 eligible.

Good point, but in reality, who's going to be added from that class?

Bush is already on. So is Peterson. Adams has to go on. But that's it. Am I missing someone else?

I don't know why I still compulsively post at the official site, but I can't help it. The people that post there, by and large, are hilariously misinformed.

Anyway, this trade looks fine to me.

some info (see news archives):

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/hattig-john.htm

I think he's had a pretty good 2004 so far, with an increase in power.

I happened to see John Hattig at a couple of the Fisher Cat games I attended earlier in the year and considering the Sox minors are pretty thin to begin with, this guy was actually one of the better hitters in Portland. I believe he had a couple of multi-hit games against NH. Since Terry Adams pretty much sucked this year, any prospect for him is a steal!

I'm glad to see JP trade Adams, though I would have preferred him to be packaged with another player or two (Phelps? Cat?) in exchange for more of a B+/A- prospect.

Although he had some abysmal outings with the Jays, I think Adams might be useful to the Sox. His track record is better than he's shown so far this year, and he's been better the last couple of times out.

Does this trade have downstream ramifications? Perhaps a Hinske shift to first next season, in other words Hattig provides insurance/depth for a Delgado walk. I think it wise for management to have their bases covered but *if* this is a glimpse of the 2005 Bluejays count me as worried.

Adams has been on a bit of a roll the past three weeks. Looks to me he finally has settled down and settled in. I'm wondering how happy File and or Nakamura will make me the rest of the way and if a warm body that might never make the club is worth the limp through the final two plus months.

I guees its not a big deal though eh?

If the reports regarding his attitude are correct, it's for the best that Adams is out of here. To get anything resembling a prospect in return for him is a real coup.

ESPN's got it up now, so any doubt I had is erased.
I hope this isn't just a get-whoever-just-so-we-can-get-rid-of-our-guy trade, but it seems like Hattig is a good player. (Ignore that simplistic comment. :) Terry Adams wasn't my favourite Jay and if Hattig contributes at the MLB level in any way in the future, I like this trade.

Adams has been on a bit of a roll the past three weeks. Looks to me he finally has settled down and settled in.

Actually, even though his ERA is better, Adams has given up over two baserunners per inning over the last month (a 2.03 WHIP). He's been terrible and lucky.

Does this trade have downstream ramifications? Perhaps a Hinske shift to first next season

That's putting a little more pressure on young Hattig than is necessary. He's a younger version of Shawn Fagan, and while he might be useful, he probably won't be be impactful on the big club next season.

It looks like Douglass will be up for the time being and I expect Miller to get a rotation spot back as soon as he is healthy. Frederick already came up and I would not be too crazy about seeing either Nakamura or File (please no) as the replacement for Adams. They might as well give Peterson's upside a shot and let him work through his problems in a long relief role.

Hattig looks like depth and insurance at the corners, which the Jays have exactly zero of in AA and AAA at the moment. Not a tremendous trade but one that should help the team by the middle of next year.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20040724&content_id=808988&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp
COMN for Fordin's article on the trade.

The fact that the Jays had to send cash in the deal says that they think Hattig has some potential. It also says to me that Boston is far from finished keeping money reserved for an impact player before the deadline. I wonder how much of Adams salary they Jays have kept on the books?

http://minorleaguebaseball.com/players/?search=hattig

I'm not sure about that analysis on Hattig. He has struck out 66 times in 258 at-bats, although he does have 48 walks. He also seems to have added some power to his game, with 21 doubles and 12 homers, which isn't all that bad.
For a guy like Adams, who assaulted his wife in a hotel room last season, didn't seem to have any show of love or emotion for the Blue Jays, and really didn't perform all that well, I say this is a good trade. I'm not sure if Adams is really a character guy.

I'm wondering how happy File and or Nakamura will make me the rest of the way and if a warm body that might never make the club is worth the limp through the final two plus months.

What's the dropoff from Adams to Nakamura (or Aquilino, or whomever) over the course of the remaining 65 games? I say 2 games, absolute max. 2 games. 78 - 84 or 76 - 86. Happy? I don't like either, so I don't care which it is.

I agree that Hattig goes as corner infield depth, and I think he's definitely got potential to be useful. As I posted above, he's gone .298/.413/.523 in 262 ABs thus far this season. In an attempt to improve the context of those numbers, I divided them by Portland's 2003 PF of 1.048 (per BP2004) and got .284/.394/.499. (I can practically see Robert Dudek cringing at this abuse of a park factor). I think this dodgy methodology actually sells him a bit short. He looks like a fine hitter to me.

An interesting move. Sites to learn about Mr Hattig via stats...
(thanks to Jonny German above for this link) http://www.soxprospects.com/players/hattig-john.htm
http://www.baseballamerica.com/cgi-bin/statsfindplayer.pl?player=hattig

Worth noting...
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/chat/040107redsoxchat.html

This chat has a comment about Hattig which is interesting ...
"Hattig has to improve his conditioning and defense and keep hitting like he did last year, and he's not a true third baseman."

Basically, the Jays would see him as a first baseman or DH I suspect.

A switch-hitter playing only at third base with 9 errors over 70 games there (4 other games as either DH or PH). Through yesterday at AA he was hitting 298/413/523 over 262 at bats. His BB-SO was 47-67 with 3 SB and 3 CS. 12 HR but just 35 RBI (probably used early in the lineup).

His minor league EQA (think of it as putting all batting skills into a single number that is similar to batting average, 300 is a great hitter, 260 mediocre, sub 200 stinking up the joint) is at http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/AA_Eastern.html and is listed as 316 for AA and 244 as a major league equivalent (factoring in age, league at, park factors, etc). The best in the Eastern League (where he was playing) for a third baseman is 276. The Jays best in that league (with over 100 PA's) is Anton French at 241 followed by J-F Griffen at 212 tied with Dominic Rich. In Syracuse the only ones over 240 are Julius Matos (260) and Stubby Clapp (246) and both barely make the 100 PA cut-off. At 200 PA's Glenn Williams (230) and Gabe Gross (229) are the best available.

In the end, this pretty much suggests that the new guy is the best hitter in the Jays minor league system at the moment. Of note though is that prospect is prospect and Rios, for example, was at just 193 before being called up. I don't think Hattig is considered a 'true prospect' thus his numbers should have that grain of salt added to them.

As for the Major Leaguers, Hinske has a EQA of .258. Guys around the mark that Hattig has are Delgado (245), Woodward (241), Phelps (235), and Gomez (255). Ugh. Who'd have thunk Delgado would be hitting like Woodward and worse than Gomez at this stage of the season?

Bottom line? Hattig is a solid guy to bring into the fold and could be called up in September for a few AB's before given a shot at the (potentially) vacant 1B or DH slot in 2005 with a good shot at producing at least as well as Delgado and Phelps have this season for a heck of a lot less.

Worth checking some info for the pen. Using pre-break numbers via http://www.stephent.com/jays/stats/20040711.html

Terry Adams EQA factoring in defense (ie: if hits fell at a league average rate) is 256. Nakamura is at 263, barely any different. Not factoring in defence the numbers are 249 and 313 (!). Basically the two are similar quality of pitchers but one has been lucky with his defensive support (Adams) while one has been amazingly unlucky (Nakamura). For the rest of the season I'd see no reason for one to be better than the other. ie: for the Jays this is basically a no-lose situation. A prospect for a guy who they already have an equivalent available in AAA. Now, Adams does have a better major league track record but (as I've said in past threads) Nakamura looks like he should be a success at the ML level if he just gets average luck.

To be the bottom line is the Jays got cheaper and got someone useful for someone not useful.

So long Terry!!! Don't forget your gas can!!:

Bottom 10 ML Relievers at preventing inherited runners from scoring
(Ranked by Inherited Runs Prevented)
Pitcher Team IRnr EIRs IR EIRf IRP
-------------------------------------------------
DeJean,M B/N 27 9.6 17 0.0 -8.0
Stanton,M NYM 41 14.3 20 1.0 -6.9
Gonzalez,M PIT 15 5.0 10 0.8 -6.2
Ligtenberg,K TOR 17 5.7 12 0.0 -6.2
Adams,T TOR 29 9.3 15 0.0 -5.7
Weathers,D N/H 28 9.2 14 0.0 -5.1
Parrish,J BAL 27 9.0 13 0.7 -5.0
Stewart,S CLE 26 8.6 13 0.6 -4.9
Mateo,J SEA 36 11.2 16 0.3 -4.8
Wagner,R CIN 16 5.6 10 0.0 -4.7

Hopefully Lighter is the next one out of town

I have a headache from reading all those numbers:)

Time to play MVP Baseball to clear my brain!

Ligtenberg actually has his own Bobblehead Day coming up. I wonder how that was planned? Any idea if they'd have worked something like that into his contract? Maybe I missed it but IIRC, Wells hasn't had a Bobblehead yet so why would Ligtenberg have been scheduled for one first -- especially considering V-Dub's 200 hit season. (He's probably had a Bobblehead already and I now look like a dumbass...If I didn't before ;-)

Kerrysene has a bobblehead day so O-Dog will have another one to put in the blender in next year's Baseball North commercial.

I think I like this trade. The Sox are not idiots though and will not have given us Hattig if they thought he had serious star potential. I think he is good for organisational depth and potential emergency callup, but he might never even make it to the major league club if things go well for other players.

I'm also glad to see the back of Adams. Although his demeanor was of a tough battler, I just didn't like him as a character. I didn't like his pitching much either.

With Hentgen retiring and some of Adams' money gone (does anyone know how much cash we gave Boston?) we should have saved a bit on payroll. If we could just move Ligtenberg or Speier (one of those two is on a 2 year contract aren't they?) more could be saved. The extra million or two might make the difference when it comes to offering Delgado a new contract, and organisation appears strong in relief arms.

Ligtenberg's bobblehead day could be amusing. Make sure you take a box of matches or lighter with you, so if he gets into the game and screws it up you can burn him in effigy there and then.

I will be veru surprised if we ever see Hattig in a Jays' uniform. He'll fill the gap until Cosby comes back next year and be a good orginizational player. At best his numbers suggest nothing more than a Berg-type...

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/07/25/adams_acquired_from_jays
this from the boston globe COMN

"The Sox will assume the balance of his $1.7 million contract."

sorry posted to quick. boston globe also saying jays get cash.

"the Red Sox last night acquired righthander Terry Adams from the Toronto Blue Jays for Double A third baseman John Hattig and cash."

If the reports regarding his attitude are correct, it's for the best that Adams is out of here. To get anything resembling a prospect in return for him is a real coup.

I agree. Frankly, I'm surprised Adams held any true value in the open market. By my estimation, anybody who can help with a corner infield position in the minors while still maintaining some of the indicators that at least give him a shot in the majors (strike zone judgement, increasing power) is great.

I'm also intrigued by what JP had to say about Hattig:

"We've been following him for some time. When we asked about him a week ago, Boston initially said no."

Of course, this may have been posturing on Boston's part, but I'll trust the same organizational scouting that saw something in an "over aged" Jason Frasor.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/news/bos_news.jsp?ymd=20040724&content_id=809202&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp
didn't see link to globe in sunday roundup oh well. from red sox offical site.

"acquiring right-hander Terry Adams from the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for switch-hitting minor league third baseman John Hattig and cash considerations"

At best his numbers suggest nothing more than a Berg-type...

Well let's see how Berg was doing at age 24. 491 at bats, .268/.348/.428, 54/80 bb/k, 27 2b, 8 3b, 9 hr

Not bad except that was at low-A ball. Hattig at the same age is doing significantly better across the board in AA. Dave Berg never touched double digits in homeruns in the minors through age 27. Hattig already 12 homeruns and 21 doubles in just 264 at bats this year.

Hattig well, well beyond Dave Berg. If anything he's closer to a guy like Eric Hinske, maybe a year behind where Hinske was at the same stage. Plus Hattig's a switch hitter but until I see his splits that may or may not be a good thing.

Bush is already on the 40 man roster. So is Peterson. Adams has to go on. But that's it. Am I missing someone else?

I don't think so.

Or said another way, if someone was taken in the Rule 5 draft it wouldn't hurt the club.

There's also guys not taken in the 2002 draft class that the Jays could lose if they don't protect.. like Negron and Brandon League (I believe).

At any rate, I can't see the Jays losing anyone of significance in the Rule 5.

This is one of those very good deals for everyone concerned. There wasn't a chance that Adams was coming back to Toronto for 2005. He wasn't having a good time here, and he won't be missed. For Terry, going to a playoff contender has to be like a new lease on life in a thus-far miserable season.

Fans who advocated trading him for a bag of balls should be thrilled to get a Brian Daubach-type player in return. Hattig is also a big winner here; he was blocked by the real Daubach and 27-HR man Earl Snyder at the corners in Pawtucket, so even a .930 OPS wasn't enough to earn a promotion. With the Jays, I expect he'll get a chance to prove himself in Triple-A then a long look next spring. That's not a prediction that he'll make the big club, merely an observation that he potentially fills a need. I really wasn't sure whether they needed a RH corner bat or a LH corner bat, so it's a bonus that he's a switch-hitter.

Kevin Frederick must also be smiling today. Though he hasn't appeared yet (because Tosca wanted to use him in low-pressure situations first, and the Jays have been winning close games) this opens up more of an opportunity for him to pitch meaningful innings and secure himself a job.

Lots of winners, no losers -- well done, J.P. and Theo.

i concur. hattig might not have any star potential, but since adams had no value to the jays, getting a solid org. soldier/backup/sleeper for him is a good trade.

Most of the Sons of Sam Horn love this deal too.

Some posters think Adams could be a long reliever and spot starter. If that's the expectation, he will likely disappoint.

I'm glad to see JP trade Adams, though I would have preferred him to be packaged with another player or two (Phelps? Cat?) in exchange for more of a B+/A- prospect.

I'm not picking on Greenfrog here, as a few people have talked about moving Phelps to pick up a better prospect. But has anyone noticed that Bauxite fave-to-be Justin Morneau's AAA stats and Josh Phelps 2002 AAA stats are nearly identical? Phelps walked a little more and hit for more power (.360 Iso (wow) vs .309 iso for Morneau), while striking out quite a bit more.

This post is neither here nor there, but I just wanted point out that

a) if Phelps was on another team, I'm sure Bauxites would be clamoring to pick him up with his minor league AND major league success to date, while villying said management for keeping him on the bench.

b) Morneau may never become any better than Phelps.

I guess I should point out that Phelps was one year older than Morneau is though (24 vs. 23).

Here's part of what BA said about Hattig:

He has a good swing from both sides of the plate as well as emerging power, and the Red Sox envisioned him taking a Brian Daubach-like career path. Hattig missed time with back spasms earlier this year but pounded the ball when healthy. He must continue to watch his weight at 6-foot-2 and 225 pounds, and his lack of first-step quickness may eventually force him to move to first base.

Morneau may not be any better than Phelps? That's rediculous... Morneau has All-Star written all over him. Well, not literally, but you know what I mean.

And most thought the same thing after Phelps' rookie year.

How soon people forget, eh Pistol?

Phelps was as good a prospect two years ago as Morneau is now. That's why a bird in the bigs is better than two in the bushes. And always will be.

I'm told that it's a "small amount" of cash going to Boston and that the Jays will still save a significant amount. I would suspect (then) that the cash amount is less than the $300,000 that would require Commissioner approval. So of Adams's approximately $700,000 remaining, the Jays are probably saving most of it.

Tom and Jerry are talking about how Lance Carter has been sprinkled with the Magic Closer Dust. Come on, guys! There really is no such thing - and Lance Carter is a prime example.

Dropping in from afar ... count me among those liking this deal. I think Spicol is in the right ballpark when he calls Hattig a young Shawn Fagan, though I do think Hattig has more power than Fagan could ever summon. He could well end up as a poor man's Kevin Youkilis, though he could also just as easily top out as Simon Pond. Either way, his floor will be very useful in Syracuse and his ceiling could be quite helpful in Toronto. He was developed and valued by one smart organization, and sought out and acquired by another, so that tells me there's something there. Very nicely done, JP.

Aloha, Patch. We should recall that Adams was a late and relatively cheap addition to the bullpen at the end of the off-season; unlike Ligtenberg, about whom we all overreacted when he was signed, Adams was a windfall of a slow free-agent market. I doubt he'll be missed, and I'm glad the front office turned him into more than just minor-league fodder.

Two things.

1. Morneau strikes out less and walks more. I think he's a way better bet for success than Phelps.

2. Hattig was behind Youkilis in the Boston depth chart, so it made sense for them to deal him. Toronto is awfully thin at the corners in the high minors, so he fits in well in our system. I think Adams was more or less waiver wire fodder, so getting back someone with even a little potential is great.

And Jeff Bagwell was behind Scott Cooper ...

No, I'm not saying Hattig will be Bagwell. Of course not. But the historical similarity to the acquisition of a set up guy in a pennant race they're simply not likely to win anyway does bring visions of Larry Andersen to mind.

No, I'm not saying Hattig will be Bagwell. Of course not. But the historical similarity to the acquisition of a set up guy in a pennant race they're simply not likely to win anyway does bring visions of Larry Andersen to mind.

Or, for a more recent example, Dan Plesac for Tony Batista. (probably more comparable scale, too)

Morneau strikes out less and walks more.

Not true. As I stated earlier Phelps walked more in the minors than did Morneau (Phelps has a higher OBP despite Morneau having a higher BA). Maybe you meant BB/K ratio (which Morneau leads convincingly)?

Thanks, Mick. I completely missed the set-up guy for minor league third baseman analogy. Does mentioning Larry Andersen's name contravene any by-laws in Boston?