Well the Mets have self destructed in one afternoon. Why not just throw Wright into one of those horrible deals?

It's the Lefty Lineup today:

Rios rf
Menechino 2b
Wells cf
Delgado 1b
Phelps dh
Johnson lf
Hinske 3b
Gomez ss
Cash c
Towers p

I think the mets made out like bandits. In the past they have been burned by Paul Wilson, Bill Pulsipher, Jason Isringhausen, Kirk Presley, Pat Strange, Grant Roberts, Aaron Heilman. Wilpon and his son are probably wary of the word "pitching prospect." The mets organization epitomizes the term T.I.N.S.T.A.A.P.P. Now Rick Peterson gets two highly talented pitchers to mold. Conversely, Kazmir has the goods but his small size could curtail his promising careeer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1849462
COMN above for the mets trade. Kazmir for Zambrano. How is Zambrano going to help the Mets at all?

so instead of dealing Kazmir earlier this year for Soriano, they dump him for Zambrano...

sorry wrong thread :(

maybe this is the wrong thread, but its current to this game....

The Sportsnet Control Center guys are calling the Dodger-Marlin trade one that "paves the way" for Randy to go to LA...

How does sending Brad Penny to LA pave the way for Johnson??.... When I saw this I thought, "Johnson to Florida?"

Prediction: Phelps will homer tonight. Against Seattle he showed a fondness for soft-tossing lefties that come inside.

How does sending Brad Penny to LA pave the way for Johnson?

Penny (and probably Murphy) would be in the package going to Arizona. If RJ doesn't agree to go, the Dodgers still improved themselves.

It's the Lefty Lineup today

Phelps is 1-for-his-last-20 and hasn't had an AB for a week. He did get a 2-run double in that last start off Mark Hendrickson, who is similar to Halama, and Chuck just reminded us what he did off Moyer and Blackley earlier in the month.

Glad to see Cash getting in there hopefully he can keep the Ray's baserunners in line.

Looks like the Tampa heckler has a new target, Phelps.

hey... "THAT GUY" is all over Phelps.. that's not right!!

man who let cash play? he sucks

I love that heckler. He works really hard! Its not easy screaming for three hours!

Towers is using the whole park...

Wow. a five pitch inning is incredible!

I love that heckler. He works really hard! Its not easy screaming for three hours!

I thought work was supposed to be productive, not narcissistic self-indulgence.

I'm sure his family must be very proud.

I *love* that heckler. He seems to inspire our guys to do good things.

Prediction: Phelps will homer tonight. Against Seattle he showed a fondness for soft-tossing lefties that come inside.

Good call. Got any stock tips? :-)

Where is a good place to get general Minor Leaguer info, for example Kazmir

Great prediction on Phelps homering Chuck. Nice job.

Prediction: Phelps will homer tonight. Against Seattle he showed a fondness for soft-tossing lefties that come inside

**Daryn tips his hat**

The Mets are screwed. This is really a bad day for us- things were starting to look up, especially with the way Hubner has progressed. Kazmir was looking great in limited action. This is why having money to spend and playing in a big media market can be a mixed blessing. The Mets are basically out of it, and have traded their future for a couple of mediocre pitchers. It reminds me of the Loiza and Traschel (was it Trax? i don't remember) deal the Jays made under Ash, but worse. Clueless management.

Towers had a 7 pitch inning.. I like it..

Hijack..
is there a thread talking about the A-Rod suspension? (Search didn't find one)

Does 4 games for A-Rod and 3 for Kent make sense to anyone? Kent had two fistfulls of umpire, I thought they'fd throw the book at him but for A-Rod to get one more, doesn't make sense to me...

Somebody needs to tell that heckler to shut up. If I was a Rays fan I wouldn't be able to stand that for 81 games.

1. Buck Martinez

Umm...wow.

Can we get Phelps in the lineup a bit more please?

There's your new RBI leader folks.

Considering he's been benched numerous times this year, I don't know if it's a good or bad thing.

Ladies and gentlemen, your lefty-masher, Josh Phelps.

Now trade Phelps for Petit. Raid the Mets blind

Josh Phelps s Left-Handed Pitching.

No arguement.

But, he's still struggled immensely against righties this year, so don't be too surprised if he still doesn't get in the lineup every day.

Wait, why do you want the heckler to shut up? Isn't he targeting Phelps?

I am not watching so I would love a report on if he sticks on him or sadly eases up.

someone should consider heckling Phelps every game...

Towers is having a good game- they should deal him for Reyes...

Clueless management.

dp, Ash gave up Brent Abernathy for Trachsel, so that wasn't terrible, but Mike Young for Loaiza didn't turn out very well, and there was also Woody Williams for Joey Hamilton. Gordo made a bad deal worse by throwing $16.5 million at Hamilton. Hell, they paid Steve Parris almost $4 million. Those were the days...

Can we get Phelps in the lineup a bit more please?

Hey, I'm very happy for him tonight, but Josh is still hitting .191 and slugging just .295 off righties, so he's earned the platoon role. In his rookie year, he had a .955 OPS v. RH, last year it dropped to .800, right now it's .551 -- below the Ordonez line. I wish I knew why, and sure, it would be nice to give him an indefinite amount of time to work it out, but you can't win many games in the AL when your DH is a black hole.

Towers is having a good game- they should deal him for Reyes...

I still can't believe the Mets gave up Kazmir and Huber for Victor Zambrano and Kris Benson. Yuck. If the Mets offered Kazmir and Huber for Batista (who is better than Benson and Zambrano), I would have done it. Yeah, yeah, TINSTAAPP, but Kazmir looks very good right now, and Huber projects to be more of a 1B than a C, which would have helped us. A risk sure, but a good one, IMHO.

Choi would have helped us too, but I can't imagine putting a package together similar to the ones the Dodgers gave up, Mota in particular, LoDuca is a bit overrated and Encaracion is garbage.

Here I come to save the day!

Menechino was 6 foot 4 on that looping liner.

My condolences to all the Mets fans out there on a dum trade. If the Mets were in contention I might, might understand this trade, but the Mets are 3 games under .500, with 8 teams ahead of them in the wild card race. Like I said you have my condolences.

Abernathy looked like he might turn out ok, Mike Young had been a fine hitter. The Hamilton deal turned out horribly. I loved the way Gordo would pay a guy before they performed, almost like the contract was a vot of confidence, or he didn't want to offend the. Raul comes to mind. The worst thing a club with bad ownership (like the Mets) can do is hang around the edge of contention. Of course, the day that should've been doom for the Jays was the Garcia/Merced trade, but that turned out pretty bad for everyone. I really never thought Dan Plesac would wind up being the best player in that deal...

I've got Phelps on the bench in BBFL b/c I forgot the Rays were starting a lhp. Drafted him in the 2nd (non-keeper) round. Uhg. Really though he was gonna break out this year.

As good as Towers has looked tonight, he's still "pitching for 29 other teams," as Cerutti recalled him saying when he was sent down to Syracuse. If Justin Miller is healthy, he'll take over for Sean Douglass, then when Doc comes back -- he's aiming for September 1 -- that will give the Jays six pretty good starters.

Great catch by Menechino.

Is there really any point in having Halladay pitch again this season? If anything happens to his arm, we're screwed.

Did you see the pregame interview, Leviathan? Doc says he feels better, will take one more week off without throwing, then start playing catch. Obviously, at the first sign of any problems, they will shut him down, but if he's pain-free, he wants to get back out there.

Yea, I saw it, he said Sept 1st is a reasonable target, basically enough to know that he's ok for the off season

Hey, I'm very happy for him tonight, but Josh is still hitting .191 and slugging just .295 off righties, so he's earned the platoon role.

Hey I agree, but if he was taken out of the lineup earlier in the season to fix his swing, then you would think that once it's fixed he would get back in the lineup more. Judging by his July numbers (.300/.378/.700) he appears to be doing much better, of course that could be because he's only playing against lefties, I dont know. He's never had these dramatic of splits before so Im hoping that it's an abberation rather than a trend. I just hope he doesnt get labelled as only being able to hit lefties based on less than 200ABs during a time it was admitted that he was having problems with his swing.

Like I posted before, I believe the deal is a high risk/ high reward for the mets. Zambrano is in his prime at 28 years old, possesses a live arm & really could take it to the next level under Rick Peterson. Benson is a 30 year old almost fully recovered from Tommy John surgery. It looks like after all these disappointed years he has recently learned to effectively get batters out without the use of just hard stuff. The mets are definitely banking on potential. They have the reserve cash to lock up both also.

Now Scott Kazmir is a 6-0" 170 pound power pitcher with electric stuff. Comparisons to a lefthanded Roy Oswalt are somewhat accurate. But the question that needs to be asked is will he struggle to stay healthy like Roy Oswalt?? I really have my doubts about this kid maintaining his body after 200+ innings of pitching each season. Perhaps the worst case scenario is that the rays turn him into a Billy Wagner type closer if he isn't durable. It should be interesting how this turns out.

Now Scott Kazmir is a 6-0" 170 pound power pitcher with electric stuff.

He's also 20 years old. Everyone here who weighs what he weighed when he was 20 please raise your hands.

(raises hands)

I'm 6'1, 175, age 20 (really). People consider me lanky, so Kazmir is definitely on the skinny side as well. Can't deny his stuff though.

Victor Zambrano is the human BB. He strikes out a good amount of batters, but walks almost just as much. He's on pace for 154 walks in 205 innings. He'll probably top out as a #4 starter on a good team, not worth giving up your best pitching prospect.

Bad deal.

Why not just hold Halladay off until like the last start of the season? Have him pitch 3 innings to stop us from getting all paranoid over his health then have a callup come on and shut down the Yanks so we can be praising him all winter?

Nice! Was that Scott Carson getting face time? :)

Yeah, that was Scott. Sounds like it hit Faulds in a bad place (the hands) and bounced to Cerutti. Funny stuff.

Another nice observation by Cerutti, as Frasor didn't look comfortable on the mound walking the leadoff man. Jason sure looked sharp against the next three batters, all lefties.

Great pitching by the Jays and just enough hitting from Phelps. A satisfying win.

Love those curveballs from Frasor.

Great win.

I think I get more satisfaction out of beating the stupid Devil Rays than I do from beating the Yankees.

Did that sportsnet guy just say that's Phelps' first multi-homer game? That cannot possibly right.

Who told Brad Fay that was Phelpsy's first multi-homer game? Man, you'd think those guys would have been watching when he torched the Rocket or did it three weeks ago.

Frasor with one blown save so far. Not too shabby for a rook.

Of course, the day that should've been doom for the Jays was the Garcia/Merced trade, but that turned out pretty bad for everyone. I really never thought Dan Plesac would wind up being the best player in that deal...

PTBNL Craig Wilson ended up being the best player in the deal. Which, of course, is even more unexpected than it would've been had it been Plesac.

Sounds like it hit Faulds in a bad place (the hands) and bounced to Cerutti.

The PVR coming in handy - Carson excitedly pumping his fists (nice tattoo!) while Faulds shakes his left hand in pain, and Cerutti holds the ball, a very pleased expression on his face... funny stuff, indeed.

And the intrigue continues. From the USS Mariner:
"If you believe in praying, start. There's a chance the M's could pull off a deal that would best the Kazmir to the D'Rays move from today. It's a work in progress, so I've been asked (told, ordered, take your pick) to keep names out of it. If it goes down, it's a better deal than the Garcia trade. Seriously."

Ah, that Josh Towers, the player that Toronto management just doesn't believe in. How many times has he been sent to Syracuse, Designated For Assignment, etc???

Just give him the ball every five days and let him get to it. Watch his pitch counts. He is a fierce competitor, smart, and crafty. So what if he does not throw 95 MPH?

Congratulations on a great game, Josh!

Josh Towers is a like a bad case of genital herpes. He keeps coming back just when you least expect it. :)

PTBNL Craig Wilson ended up being the best player in the deal. Which, of course, is even more unexpected than it would've been had it been Plesac.

I dunno- Wilson's having a great year, but it took him a long time to give a solid return on the deal. Since the trade, Plesac has been the best overall performer. I do remember people being pretty high on Wilson at the time.

No way.

What Wilson has done combined with what a reasonable expectation for him in the near future is of greater value that a decent lefthanded relief pitcher.

Genital Herpes?

For crying out loud, let's all give Towers some respect. Does he have to write poetry, have civil-war sideburns, or have played for the A's to be taken seriously?

The Mets deals are so bad it's laughable. I heard somewhere today that Duquette didn't want any part of them and it's all Wilpon. That would not suprise me in the least. The idea that the Mets are somehow going to make the playoffs is absurd. Throw in the fact that you could sign Benson at the end of the year anyway and it's even sillier.

You've got to love Harold Reynolds. He claims that the Dodgers just handed the Marlins the pennant. I'd give the Marlins maybe a 30/70 shot of even making the playoffs even after that deal.

I wonder what Fergie Olver is doing these days?

Damm Cash is only hitting .197 right now. The Jays have a decisionsto make in the off-season. Do they resign Zhaun and play him and Quiroz or let Quiroz pair with Cash, or does JP send Cash down to the minors?

From all reports Cash didn't take any time off after last season ended and went to work right away at his swing. Looks like those countless hours didn't do a damm thing because he's scuffled all year at the plate. As good as his defence is, you can't start a guy that hits below .200

Genital Herpes?

For crying out loud, let's all give Towers some respect. Does he have to write poetry, have civil-war sideburns, or have played for the A's to be taken seriously?

I think Chris *was* giving him respect.

It just happened to be in a way that forced coffee to spew from my nose.

:)

If you recall, Cash got off to a hot start and was also injured. He's taken a while to adjust at each level, but he always has, at least to the point where his offence is acceptable considering his defensive abilities. In terms of game-calling I think Cash can handle it, but I think they still need a veteran with a live stick to back up.

Remind me not to drink coffee while visiting Da Box : )

I'd give the Marlins maybe a 30/70 shot of even making the playoffs even after that deal.

What??? Are you serious? The Marlins just walked away with the NL East, guaranteed.

Everyone here who weighs what he weighed when he was 20 please raise your hands.

5-9, 175 here. I'm 17 years old, so consider my hand raised tentatively, and as long as I don't lose five pounds in the next three years, I'm good.

Which, as anyone here who has gone to university can attest, does not happen. :)

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Over the last two seasons with the Jays Josh Towers is now 14-4, 4.33 in 129 innings, which is a pretty good match for Kris Benson 2004. (4.22 in 132 IP) It would be awfully nice if JP could find a desperate GM and sell high.

In fairness to Josh, we do need to work a little harder to find a better nickname for Towers than "Genital Herpes." Aptness aside, that's the type of moniker that could haunt a guy.

Plesac is not decent. He is a superhuman reliever who holds the Milwaukee Brewers alltime record in games pitched, saves, ERA, WHIP, H/9, K/9, and ajdusted ERA. I believe it's 200 IP minimum standard. If that's your idea of decent.....

Now accepting applicants to the Dan Plesac fan club. Inquire within.

Hey...if there's a market for the amazingly average Kris Benson, could there be a Josh Towers market at this point?

Thomas,

Of course I meant since the trade to Toronto. He was a great reliever earlier.

Aptness aside, that's the type of moniker that could haunt a guy.

Not unlike genital herpes.

What??? Are you serious? The Marlins just walked away with the NL East, guaranteed.

Care to make that interesting?

Robert, I just meant that until now, by value since the trade, Plesac's been more valuable. Wilson's going to have a huge career, but Plesac was in the majors pitching pretty well from the start of the deal, while Wilson just started playing full time this year. At the time, I really thought Plesac was the worst of the three the Jays got. Orlando Merced was unnecessary. I thought Garcia was decent at the time, but looking back I have no idea why- maybe some good games against the Mets.

What??? Are you serious? The Marlins just walked away with the NL East, guaranteed.

Care to make that interesting?

What? How can anyone make the NL East race interesting? ;)

Choi would've looked great replacing Delgado next year. LA made out really well on this. Any chance they want Greg Zaun? When does Myers come off the DL?

Since this is the most active thread, I thought I'd ask this here:

Is Zambrano a free agent after '05 or '06? I thought I heard '05 somewhere, but given his service time, '06 would make more sense.

Re: Victor Zambrano

At the conclusion of the 2007 season.

After the end of this year he'll still be under 4 years of service time, which means that after 2006 he'll have less than 6.

Thanks Robert. That makes a lot more sense. Not sure where I heard the '05 figure.

Towers is what he is.

A 5th starter who will kill against a weak hitting team and in large ballparks. If he pitches against the Yanks, he will get torched. He has been great for us with all these injury problems and I wish him the best of luck next year.

Maybe, but having Towers as 5th starter is dramatically better than having Hentgen out there. He's certainly been useful this year.

I would hate to give up any pitching. So we've got six starters! We've seen what injuries will do -- and I think Justin Miller would just be a sick closer.

Care to make that interesting?

I know. The winner has to give the loser genital herpes.

So in other words, there is no true winner.

Unless the winner already had genital herpes.

I don't think Towers is anything special and I don't care if he comes back next season. I would rather have Miller than Towers.

Towers does well against weak hitting teams but watch him go up against the Yanks/Red Sox and other mashing teams and he gets smoked.

For what it's worth, at 20 I was about 6'4" and maybe 220 pounds.
6'1" and 170 is plenty lanky, especially for an athelete. Add 25 pounds to that at 20 and you're built.