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They've tantalized us before, these Blue Jays have. Mired in the depths of a very disappointing season, from time to time they've stood up to reel off several wins in a row, making their fans think that the slump is over and the real Fighting Jays are about to emerge. Alas, opposition sweeps and losing streaks have invariably followed instead, until it became clear to even the most ardent fans that this isn't just a bad stretch or series of stretches, it's a bad season from what has been, on balance, a pretty bad team. So is there any reason to think that the current winning streak will be any different?

I think there is, and I think the Jays are going to sustain this higher level of play throughout the balance of the season. With the brutal schedule ahead of them the rest of the way, this anticipated improvement may not necessarily result in many wins. But if we look carefully, I'm hoping we can see signs of real progress: hustle, smart baserunning, sharp defence, gutsy pitching. Virtually everyone on this squad is playing for their paycheque next season, and quite a few are playing for their careers.

That list of under-the-gun Blue Jays includes manager John Gibbons, who so far seems to have produced a more relaxed atmosphere and who has resuscitated the seasons of youngsters Orlando Hudson and Chris Woodward. Now, sure, it's fun to play loose and easy when the season is toast. But what the team brass is likely looking for now is real professionalism and competitiveness, players who aren't just punching the clock through September, players who still hate to lose and want badly to win. And the team brass is almost certainly looking for signs of real progress from key players, many of whom will probably not be here in 2005 if they don't show that progress right now.

The sweep of the Orioles was particularly gratifying because there suddenly seemed to be a confidence about the team, an expectation of victory, that hasn't been evident all season. That expectation of victory has to become ingrained in the clubhouse right through the end of September, and it has to start with what's left of this otherwise lost season. 2004 is a sunk cost, but there still remains the opportunity to finish strong and to lay the groundwork for a better year in 2005. And there are a lot of questions yet to be answered.

Will Woodward and Hudson open 2005 as the double-play combo? Are Vinny Chulk and Jason Frasor a fully reliable pair of ace relievers? Is Eric Hinske in fact among the league's top five at the hot corner, or is he just a replacement-level third baseman? Is Kevin Frederick a useful long reliever? Can Gabe Gross give the team 400 good at-bats against right-handers next season? Is Justin Miller a fourth starter or potential ace reliever? Can John Gibbons guide this team into contention next season, as originally scheduled? I expect that to a number of these questions, the answer will be "no." But now is the time to find out, and we should be able to look forward to a more intense and exciting style of play from the Blue Jays during what are essentially this team's final exams.

The first exam, tonight against the Red Sox, is a monster. Pedro Martinez takes the hill for the visitors, and so the Blue Jays will find out right away whether or not their offensive explosion in Camden Yards was for real. Ted Lilly pitches for Toronto, and he gives the Jays a fighting chance at a win. This one may come down to how well the Jays' bullpen can protect a late-inning lead. If it does, then for my money, I think we'll see Justin Speier out there to close the door. Tune in and find out.
Game 125: Finally, Turnaround? | 73 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#40113) #
Jays catch a bit of a break, so to speak, with the red-hot Jason Varitek serving a four game suspension. Still, this is going to be a trying series for the Jays.
_Daryn - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#40114) #
Does anyone keep stats for "meaningless" production?? The Jays must have more meaningless Homers than anyone (4 HR's on last day of season Carlos, to end up with 42... looks better than 38 right?) Woody hits Grand slam when already up by 6 or 7.

In fact in terms of general production, the Jays don't win many games by 3 or 4... if they get 4 ahead, they go nuts and win by 10!...

Do they relax once the game is decided (either way)... and tense up when its tight?...

Batting Coach Anyone?
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#40115) #
Carlos hit a grand slam in his first AB of the last game of the year and was pulled. The Jays and Josh Towers, if I recall correctly, went on to beat the Indians.

And I am going only on memory, but I would guess the majority of games won this year were decided by margins of 4 runs or less.
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#40116) #
Boy that Lilly for Bobby trade was brillant for the Jays.

I'm currently reading Moneyball (around the 200pg mark) and I think the book overlooks a few things to the success of the A's. I know the book keeps on hammering the point of how OBP is the best offensive stat in baseball. And the book paints Beane as the smartest GM in the game. What they don't say is how Beane has found a way to build a good regular season team that can't even win one playoff round. Also they might as well rename "moneyball", "Mulder, Zito, and Hudson" because without those 3 the A's go nowhere. If you look at the numbers the pitching staff's era is always in the top 10.

Also in the 2002 draft it paints Beane as brilliant when we don't even know how those players he selected will turn out. It's too early to judge when we haven't seen them in the big leagues (or if they even make it that far).

But I must say it's a great baseball book so far.
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#40117) #
Boy that Lilly for Bobby trade was brillant for the Jays.

I'm currently reading Moneyball (around the 200pg mark) and I think the book overlooks a few things to the success of the A's. I know the book keeps on hammering the point of how OBP is the best offensive stat in baseball. And the book paints Beane as the smartest GM in the game. What they don't say is how Beane has found a way to build a good regular season team that can't even win one playoff round. Also they might as well rename "moneyball", "Mulder, Zito, and Hudson" because without those 3 the A's go nowhere. If you look at the numbers the pitching staff's era is always in the top 10.

Also in the 2002 draft it paints Beane as brilliant when we don't even know how those players he selected will turn out. It's too early to judge when we haven't seen them in the big leagues (or if they even make it that far).

But I must say it's a great baseball book so far.
_Daryn - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#40118) #
my apoloies, the 4 HR's was on Sept 25th, 2003, Tampa Bay.... but the season WAS over..
_StephenT - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#40119) #
Ron, the point is that the A's have great players despite one of the lower payrolls (though it's up to almost $60 million this year).
_David A - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#40120) #
Ron if you look at the numbers of those players drafted by Beane as Aaron Gleeman and Craig B have done you'll see the majority of the top prospects have done fairly well so far in the minors. Obviously it doesn't always translate over to big league success, but it's the best indicator available - obviously that's what the Jays are counting on.
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#40121) #
I agree the A's have great players but like you have pointed out the A's payroll is starting to climb and all of the big 3 are due for big raises soon (if Beane decides to keep them). The main goal is to win the championship and the A's haven't done that under Beane.
_Ryan Lind - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#40122) #
Hopefully the Jays get a chance to beat up on their old pal Terry Adams in this series.

I don't think we saw him in the last series.
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#40123) #
Way to go Sparky!
_Tenobia - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:19 PM EDT (#40124) #
A home run and now a triple off Pedro. Very nice way to start.
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#40125) #
Well can't ask for a better start than that.

Reed with the leadoff HR, O-Dog with the triple right after.
_Daryn - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#40126) #
I got curious....
The Jays are at Jays 124 games, and 52 Wins
22 of the were by 4 or more runs. (42%)
6 were by 8 or more... (11.5%)

in the Jays losses (72)
34 were by 4 or more runs. (47%)
and 7 by 8 or more (9.7%)

but it means nothing.. what I can't tell is how many of the tighter games had several runs scored after the game was already decided...
_Daryn - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#40127) #
Nice Triple
_Tenobia - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#40128) #
Holy curve ball Batman
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#40129) #
Wow Lilly's on tonight. 3Ks to end the 2nd inning in very quick fashion.
_Ryan Lind - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#40130) #
Lovin' this.

-K. Millar struck out looking
-D. Mirabelli struck out swinging
-B. Mueller struck out looking
-End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)

Remember that game at Fenway where Lilly had like 10 K's through 7 before taking a ball in the leg? Yeah.
Thomas - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#40131) #
Lilly's curveball looks quite sharp today. That one to Millar was a beauty.

Pedro's location was off in the first inning. He was leaving balls out over the plate. Mirabelli called for a high fastball to Hinske and it was well inside. He didn't looks particuarly sharp at all.
_CaramonLS - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#40132) #
My god that curve is ELECTRIC tonight.
Pistol - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#40133) #
http://www.athleticsnation.com/
Ron - There's a 3 part interview with Billy Beane at Athletics Nation that's worth reading. COMN.
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#40134) #
Pistol - Thx for the link, I'll check it out.
_Nigel - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#40135) #
What I like even more is that even with all the K's, Lilly's pitchcount through 3 is a pretty reasonable 44. In some of his high k outings his pitchcount has gotten pretty high pretty early.
_P Smith - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#40136) #
Faulds called it a "good" at bat by Delgado, Cerutti a "very good" at bat.

C'mon guys; that was a GREAT at bat.

And now Hinske singles, RBI.
_Daryn - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#40137) #
Lily looks good...
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#40138) #
Lilly's into double digits Ks now. Great game.
_Ryan Lind - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#40139) #
This is fantastic.

Let's just hope Lilly doesn't take a ball in the leg before serving one up to Manny...
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#40140) #
Ok it's official. Ted Lilly pitches every game against the Red Sox next year.
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#40141) #
New career high for Theodore! 12 K's
_smarchee - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#40142) #
Lilly looks great tonight - 12 K's
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#40143) #
This is great baseball.
_Elijah - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#40144) #
Speak softly and carry those big sticks back to the dugout. 13 Ks.

- Theodore Roosevelt Lilly
_Ryan Lind - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#40145) #
I don't like Lilly coming in for the ninth..

Frasor has struggled lately, but still...118 pitches is quite a bit.
Pistol - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#40146) #
Your 2005 starting SS:

Eric Hinske
_Loveshack - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#40147) #
I feel the opposite. Lilly has been rockin' tonight. If he feels good enough to stay in then let him until he shows signs of struggling. Pitch count be danged.

Besides the fact that the Jays dont have a lights out closer makes it an easy decision imho.
_CaramonLS - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#40148) #
Well, its not like they are saving his arm for anything meaningful this year.
_CaramonLS - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#40149) #
Further to my point, the bullpen has been scary in the last few outings... Lilly staying in is the right move.
_Scott Levy - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#40150) #
9 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 13 K, 126 Pitches

Wow.

I don't like the pitch count, but it's only the 2nd time this year he's gone to 120 pitches, so I guess it's okay.

Great outing. Congrats to Teddy Ballgame!
_Ryan Lind - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#40151) #
You were right, I was wrong.

Lilly induces three popups and the game is over.

Game of the year.
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#40152) #
In a season from hell this was a game from heaven!
_RhyZa - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#40153) #
what a gem... highlight of the season.

I guess his neck is okay, and if it wasn't Orlando gave him a pretty good celebratory headlock there.
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#40154) #
Did Vernon Wells re-injure himself?
Thomas - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#40155) #
Lilly was lights out. That was a gem of a performance.
Thomas - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#40156) #
Faulds said that his calf (the one that put him on the DL) cramped up and that's why they had the defensive change.
_sweat - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#40157) #
Have'nt been posting, as i have been glued to the TV. What a great game from Lilly, his curveball kept hitting all night. Got to see some nice D, Hinske, and some timely hitting, Hinske, Hudson. With a healthy rotation the Jays look to have a pretty solid starting rotation. Gibbons made the smart play by having Lilly come back out to start the ninth, as the lead off man was a good hitting lefty. Bats were a little silent, but that was Pedro after all, and he was looking pretty good himself.
_JackFoley - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#40158) #
Thanks Thomas, I missed that.
Thomas - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#40159) #
In case anyone missed the broadcast, the 13 K's is a club record for a southpaw, and his 6 consecutive strikeouts are also a club record.
_Rob - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#40160) #
Wow, how many pitchers strike out 13 and bat third? ;)
_jsoh - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#40161) #
Jason Bay for Bush? Wilner's stompin on that one, with good reason
_R Billie - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#40162) #
Bay for Bush would be a fair trade but that all depends on what the Jays' priorities are. I think they'd like outfield insurance but not necessarily insurance that they'd have to give up a lot for. Bush gives them a nice option in either the rotation or pen.

Tonight was an example of what Lilly can do when he actually has control of his curve. A few days ago I suggested he not throw the curve as often to preserve his pitch count but tonight he was able to throw it any time in the count with good results. If he can do that consistently he will become one of the better starters in the league but history suggests those are long odds.
robertdudek - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#40163) #
I'm looking at Scott Kazmir on my TV screen. This ought to be fun.
_greenfrog - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#40164) #
All I can say is...wow.

Check out Lilly's numbers for the year:

159.2 IP
135 H
72 BB
138 K
3.66 ERA

And Bobby Kielty? (In 214 AB)

.206 BA
.313 OBP
.355 SLG
_Ron - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#40165) #
Another stat is that hitters are only hitting .232 off of him, that's 2nd best in the AL behind soon to be CY Winner Johan Santana
_Tom in NY - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#40166) #
Man, if the Jays hadn't made that trade, this season would even be worse, if one could fathom such a thing.
_Dan H - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#40167) #
Great game all around. Lilly has impressed me this year; perhaps I'd heard too much about his inconsistancy. I thought we would be in for a much more up and down season from him, but he's been solid for the Jays.

If only he had last year's offense behind him...
Named For Hank - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#40168) #
Just got back from the game -- I AM NAMING MY FIRST CHILD AFTER TED LILLY.

Boy: Theodore.
Girl: Lilly.

Now I have to convince Mrs. Hank.
_Dan H - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#40169) #
Girl: Lilly.

It took a lot of doing, but I had actually convinced my wife to name our child Lilith (Lily) if it was a girl; it was a boy, so we went with Aidan. Not that anyone cares, but I thought I'd share.
_Dan - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#40170) #
I guess you know your obsessed with baseball when your thinking about naming your kids after baseball players.
_Dan H - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#40171) #
Friends of my wife named their first son Ryan and their second Nolan. We asked if they were baseball fans, and she said no and looked at us like we were nuts.
_R Billie - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:42 PM EDT (#40172) #
Scott Kazmir is making his first career start against Seattle tonight. So far he has 4 shutout innings but he's already thrown 89 pitches. 3 hits, 3 walks, 3 strikeouts. Lots of room for improvement for this 20 year old.
_Tyler - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:42 PM EDT (#40173) #
Especially when it's your daughter
_Dan H - Monday, August 23 2004 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#40174) #
You could always name your daughter Diamond.
_Mick - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 12:33 AM EDT (#40175) #
If you have girl triplets, name them after the home run leaders and see if anyone notices: Erin, Ruth and Mae.
_sweat - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 12:37 AM EDT (#40176) #
Naming your daughter diamond would be sealing her fate as a future hooker or stripper.
_MrPurple - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 12:41 AM EDT (#40177) #
http://www.naturesguard.com
Only if your hoping she will make better tips when guys find out its her real name Dan
_doctor_payne13 - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 02:44 AM EDT (#40178) #
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/doctorpayne13-fedex.jpg
I made the 2 1/2 trip to Toronto to see the game tonight, and needless to say, I was very pleased with the result. Lilly was fantastic, the game was excitng, the dome was electric (even though alot of the noise was from the Sox fans), and I even got one of those Fed-Ex Deliverey of the Game Packages. COMN to see its awe-inspiring contents...
_Smiley - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 02:59 AM EDT (#40179) #
Dude, no frisbee? They used to always come with a frisbee. Er, novelty flying disk.
_benum - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 03:42 AM EDT (#40180) #
If you have girl triplets, name them after the home run leaders and see if anyone notices: Erin, Ruth and Mae.

Barry or Bonds? I don't think either fits very well. Berrie?
_Paul S - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 05:53 AM EDT (#40181) #
Berry might work.

Also, I am right pissed that Lilly decided to pitch the game of his life against my team. He better show this kinda stuff on Saturday!
Named For Hank - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 07:19 AM EDT (#40182) #
Geez, they used to come with a frisbee -- now they're even worse. Not a Blue Jay themed item at all, eh?

I guess you know your obsessed with baseball when your thinking about naming your kids after baseball players.

Hey, it's a family tradition. Mick, if we have triplets I'm going to push for those names. But the kid that will be born late December or early January is singular.
_dave bell - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 07:20 AM EDT (#40183) #
The Aussies win!!! The Aussies win!!! Hope we get to play you guys in the final, which would truly be a clash of loyalties. What is this, no game chatter for the biggest game in canadian international baseball history?
Named For Hank - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 07:34 AM EDT (#40184) #
Wow, go Australia!
_dave bell - Tuesday, August 24 2004 @ 07:55 AM EDT (#40185) #
Yes, former major leaguer Dave Nillson financed the entire enterprise, or so I have heard. Big result after a disappointing tournament in Sydney, will do a lot to put baseball on the mainstream map if we manage to win.
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