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The #BlueJays head to Gotham for the first time this season to visit Edwin and his parrot after a series victory in Boston. #LetsGoBlueJays




Series Schedule / Probable Starters

Monday at 7:05 pm ET - Sanchez vs. Sabathia
Tuesday at 7:05 pm ET - Richard vs. TBA
Wednesday at 7:05 pm ET - Thornton vs. Paxton

The Yankees saw their eight-game winning streak get snapped by Houston but they are 49-28, 4-1/2 games ahead of Tampa in the American League East. JA Happ is 7-4 with a 5.23 ERA, striking out 66 over 84-1/3 innings. Edwin Encarnacion is hitting just .115 over 23 at-bats but two of his three hits have been home runs. The Edwing has 23 on the season after being stolen from Seattle recently, much like the way Toronto was fleeced in the Happ deal.

The Blue Jays captured the rubber match of their three-game set against the Red Sox with a 6-1 drubbing at Fenway Park. The Jays are 20 games below .500 at 29-49 but Baltimore has a seven-game bulge for the AL East basement.
Blue Jays @ Yankees - June 24-26 | 117 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
ayjackson - Monday, June 24 2019 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#376080) #
Sanchez sitting 87-88with the 2-seamer. Is that a concern?
PeterG - Monday, June 24 2019 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#376081) #
Of course. It is the fastball that is being hit the most.
Kelekin - Monday, June 24 2019 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#376082) #
My grade on Aaron Sanchez's fastball: 30
My grade on SRF's mustache: 20
Mike D - Monday, June 24 2019 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#376087) #
I am not particularly a fan of Grichuk, or even the idea of trying for third under those circumstances, but that was a true hustle play and I very much appreciate the effort.
scottt - Monday, June 24 2019 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#376089) #
I would have liked to see SRF start the 6th instead.
Another outing like this and Law should clear waiver without any concern.
Not that losing him would change anything.

katman - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 03:07 AM EDT (#376094) #
Law and Drury down, Romano and Bichette up. Soon, please.

Hope Merryweather is ready in time for the trades.
Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 05:47 AM EDT (#376095) #
Aaron Sanchez is looking completely washed up as a player, might as well put him in the bullpen.
scottt - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 08:17 AM EDT (#376096) #
The first 5 innings were not bad.
Sanchez used the curve well.
They should have used the ball that hit him as an excuse to take him out before the 6th.
It would be interesting to see what he looks like in the pen, but I'm not banking on that.
It's hard for him to go through the lineups 3 times if his fastball is getting hit.

Law's ERA is over 7 now and he's not getting outs.
Not sure Romano would be called over Pannone.
Either would be an improvement.

Bichette has probably another month of AAA to go through before he earns a promotion.
Technically he will take over for Galvis but they might trade Sogard instead.
I have no clue what they do with Drury.

They mentioned Deivi Garcia has a potential trade target for Stroman.
He has an ERA of 2.68 after 9 starts in AA.
He's 5'9", 160lbs.
He has high spin rates on both his fastball and his curve.


Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#376097) #
Since his recall on May 24th, Lourdes Gurriel has amassed the third most WAR amongst all left fielders with 1.2 and represents a bright spot on this team.

scottt - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 08:43 AM EDT (#376098) #
Maile hasn' t hit lefties all year, so I would have preferred to see Jansen against CC.

Blue Jays catchers hit worse than NL pitchers.
They would probably have better result by letting Stroman and Thornton hit and DH for the catchers.
I suppose Maile needs to make the last out as a pitcher to work around rule 5.11.

Speaking of DH, Vladdy as 3B, OPS .789. Vladdy as DH, OPS .558.

Also, I'd like to see Maile pitch more often.
His knuckler is better than whatever Law throws.
Let's have some fun here.
Just image the face of Boone.

Speaking of fun, Richard against all the right handers in the Yankees lineup coming up today.

uglyone - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#376103) #
Jays discounting tickets on Canada Day weekend.

that might be a first.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#376105) #
Jays discounting tickets on Canada Day weekend.

Imagine the optics of a half-empty stadium when the eyes of a nation are upon you. Professional seat fillers may be required for the upper decks.

Gerry - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#376107) #
Kendrys Morales DFA by the Yankees. I guess Edwin's arrival sealed his fate.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#376108) #
Kendrys Morales DFA by the Yankees. I guess Edwin's arrival sealed his fate.

Oh, irony. 
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#376109) #
Aaron Sanchez' selected career splits- opponent's slash and sample:
1st PA as reliever- .152/.222/.192   219 PA
1st PA as starter- ..226/.324/.317   765 PA
2nd PA as starter- ..266/.351/.416  746 PA
3rd PA as starter- .264/.337/.456    556 PA

He's not a "bum", just a guy who you cannot count on for 30-34 starts of about 6 innings most years.  I don't know why you wouldn't use him as an opener- one-two innings every  three games.  I am pretty sure that he would give you 80-90 good medium leverage innings in a year.  You can then come on with Thomas Pannone half the time.   
vw_fan17 - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#376110) #
Just catching up on some discussions, and of course, I have to give my input, because, hey, it's the internet, and my voice matters :-) And consume massive quantities of NaCl with this - I've only been somewhat paying attention this season..

I agree with the "if you can get good pieces, trade Stroman, Giles, etc". However - I do NOT want to see trades for the sake of trades. Even if Stroman / Giles / Sogard / Galvis won't help us in 2024, I think it's a good idea to keep a few decent veterans around, just so the kids can learn from them. Plus, to have the chance to win once in a while. If Thornton pitches a strong 7 innings, you *NEED* a good setup man + closer (Giles?) to bring it home - few things are more demoralizing to an up-and-coming team than the Jay's bullpen in the 80s until Henke arrived. How many games did Stieb lose when he left with a lead? It wore on him, and the whole team, I believe. Or, if we're tied in the 9th, and you pinch-hit for Maile with Sogard/Galvis and they get the winning hit - that lifts the whole team.
Thornton seems like he's "getting there" as a decent starter. At least potential to stick longterm. I think he's trusting his fastball up in the zone more than before, and having success with it, so he's less afraid to "go after" hitters. I think this is one that Buck had right (he mentioned it earlier this season), although he may just have picked it up from the pitching coach..

Sanchez seems mostly washed up - or at least in need of an overhaul. His one good year, he seemed to have that 96 mph sinker that everyone grounded out on or swung over. It seems obvious his body (hand) won't allow him to keep throwing that pitch. Did the hitters ever adjust to that? Maybe someone could teach him the Halladay cutter? Even a lesser version of that might help? But obviously, BB are the big problem - he doesn't trust his fastball, because it keeps getting crushed, so he nibbles, and his curveball is on-again-off-again, and his changeup is not very good, AFAICT. Too bad.

Definitely want to see Bichette up sooner rather than later and end the Drury experiment.. Can Teoscar still hit? Jansen needs a reset - trip to the minors or something - to give his bat a chance to wake up. Rowdy's still got some leash to go, IMHO.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#376111) #
Mike, I see a skilled guy who hasn't improved one iota in any area since being drafted. Not his skill set, not his physical fitness, not his poise, not his approach - so much so that he's now just a plain bad pitcher....and you throw in him feuding with his hardest working teammate who was likely responsible for his only good year, and signing with the most self-serving agent of all time....well, I see a bum.
ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#376112) #
On the positive side, the more I watch Cavan Biggio play, the more I like him. He seems to have a better grasp of he strike zone than the umpires sometimes, and I see him as a steady, hard-working player who someday may be a star. He didn't have the buildup of Vlad Jr. and Bichette, but he has been one of the bright spots in a dismal season.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#376114) #
Concur, Island Boy.  Biggio has always had the fine strike zone judgment, but now he can drive the ball.  He's a smart baserunner too. 
John Northey - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#376115) #
I love a lot of the kids on the team today. Hopefully they gel into a winner by 2021. The offense is fun again. Who walks away from the TV when Vlad, Gurriel, or Tellez is coming up? Biggio looks like a potentially great leadoff hitter with all those walks. If Biggio can just cut those K's he'd be a great player. Heck, his OPS+ is just 1 point lower than Smoak's this year even with the 217 BA.

June has seen from the kids...
Vlad: 226/322/367
Tellez: 217/273/517 - modern Dave Kingman without the attitude?
Biggio: 200/361/431
Hernandez: 259/333/556
Gurriel: 310/359/583 - sweet!
Jansen: 182/280/227 - ugh.

Drury: 136/208/205 - why is he here?
Kelekin - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 07:19 PM EDT (#376118) #
Always fun to watch a televised Yankees batting practice session.
hypobole - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#376119) #
Awesome double play the Jays turned there.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#376120) #
So Richard is no good... and Sanchez is no good... and Jackson is no good... and Stroman is about to be traded...

So that leaves Thornton and what, four job openings?

Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#376121) #
Gurriel has a gun! Hes getting settled in on the outfield grass!
Kelekin - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#376124) #
Nice to see some defensive flair tonight.
Nigel - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#376125) #
Notwithstanding how painful some of this is, I think that this season is answering some questions. Unfortunately, many of them are being answered negatively but some appear to be turning to the positive (Gurriel and Biggio in particular). To Chucks point, I think you can say fairly definitively that the team needs to find a CF and about 6-8 pitchers. Before year end, Id like to see them answer the question of what position will Biggio play.

uglyone - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#376126) #
Really want to see gurriel get a shot in center. And for me Biggio is an LF. 1b maybe but we need that for vladdy.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#376127) #
My bet for positions for 19/20 are...
1B: Tellez
2B: Biggio
3B: Vlad
SS: Bo (very soon)
LF: Gurriel
CF: Hernandez for now, Davis if he can stay hot with the bat in AAA
RF: Grichuk
CA: Jansen/Maile this year, with McGuire taking over one of those slots in 2020.
DH: for days of rest, let vets/scrubs get in there.

Nice with all sub 30's and a lot of sub 25's. All under control for years. Hernandez in CF seems weird to me given how bad he was in LF, which is part of why I see Davis taking it over if his bat can do anything half decent (650+ OPS).

I think that should be a very solid lineup for a few years. Some fear on defense but as others have said defense is getting less important. Otherwise we'd see a lot more of Urena who I see as the backup IF for the future.
hypobole - Tuesday, June 25 2019 @ 11:55 PM EDT (#376128) #
Devers at 20 was a worse defensive 3B than Vlad at 20. How's Devers now?
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#376129) #
My guess is once Smoak is traded they will put Tellez at 1B, Hernandez at DH, and Alford in CF. Alford is hitting .308/.392/.465 in his last 181 plate appearances (.414 BABIP) with a 25 K% and 11 BB%. Clearly luck involved there, but at this point he should get a real look to see what he has against big league pitching, especially in a historically bad season where wins/losses don't mean anything.

The pitching definitely looks bad beyond Stroman, who will probably be traded. Thornton has been a nice surprise but they need a lot more than that. Hopefully they can add some in trades because I'm not sure there is much on the horizon in the current upper minors.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#376130) #
If he loses the weight so that he can add some lateral quickness, I see no reason he can't be a solid average to above average 3B. He has absolutely shown flashes of potential.
Glevin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:29 AM EDT (#376131) #
My biggest issue with Sanchez is that he seems to always want to blame someone else or bad luck or something. he's walking 5 guys a game. Own it. Work to improve. Jays should be targeting starting pitching to some extent in trades but it's not like they have studs at every position so if they get a better position player offer, they should take it. Also, they do have a fair number of interesting pitching prospects now. Pearson, Kloffenstein, Manoah, Pardinho, Williams, Zeuch, Murphy, and Diaz all have a chance to be starters although you can never have too many pitching prospects. Braves make a ton of sense for Giles. They have a great team and bullpen is a weakness. Also, have a lot of starter prospects so they match up very well.
scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:40 AM EDT (#376132) #
Bref has Devers at .2 dWAR and on track for over 5 WAR over the full year.
About the same as Bogaerts.

I'll take that that until they can find a third baseman who can hit.
Maybe Groshans destroys AAA in 2022.

I don't think Gurriel ever moves from LF.
He's 25.

Biggio looks so-so at first. OK in the outfield, but not a great arm. Better at 2B, but not a great range.
A lot of Biggio's Ks are the ump striking him out on balls.
I don't think he'll change his approach there. If he does he'll walk less.
Hopefully the umps will eventually give him the close calls as he gets a reputation.

Grichuk looks set in RF until a power bat comes up.
Connine still has a long way to go.

The Jays have a lot of CF prospects, Alford, Davis, Young, Stevenson.
Hopefully we don't see Grichuk in center much after this year.

The bullpen should be good enough even without Giles.
Romano looks great. They have other arms who will end up in the pen.

Sanchez doesn't really nibble. He's just not a command guy and misses a lot.
His fastball has lost a bit of velo and a lot of movement.
Maybe that comes back. Maybe not.
I'm not sure he'd improve his BB/K ratio out of the pen.


James W - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#376136) #
My biggest issue with Sanchez is that he seems to always want to blame someone else

The Athletic had another piece yesterday detailing how the baseball has changed once again this season. The astrophysicist who wrote that article says, "Performing my own independent studies, I determined the decrease in drag could be traced back to an increase in lace thickness, which inadvertently produced a rounder baseball. The introduction of thicker laces also corresponded to a marked increase in pitcher blister injuries, suggesting that as a possible factor."

I don't think it's a leap to say Sanchez has been hurt by this change to the baseball. We'd love it if he'd just been able to adapt, but he hasn't. It's too bad, for both him and us, as fans.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#376137) #
Why would Teoscar ever go to DH? He can't even hit enough for CF?

And why would gurriel be barred from trying CF because he's 25 when he never played LF until 25 either?

Devers had 2 awful years defensively at 3B, he has now had a passable defense half season. He might be able to be passable there for a couple years before his body catches up to him and he starts losing range. I agree that that's also the best case scenario for vladdy over there, I just don't think getting a couple years of passable defense over there is worth it.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#376138) #
David Laurilia interviews Cavan Biggio on hitting.  Biggio gives the thoughtful answers you would expect about his approach, but the mechanical adjustments that he describes making after HIgh A were interesting to me. 
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:27 AM EDT (#376140) #
p.s. tiny sample size, but the early returns on the defensive metrics on teoscar's foray into CF are...not good.


* = too small a sample to be anything more than a suggestion at this point


Career drs/150 & uzr/150

Grichuk CF: 1874.2in, +10.8, -1.8
Grichuk COF: 2590.2in, +2.6, +5.4

Teoscar CF: 253.1in*, -26.7, -22.7
Teoscar COF: 1622.1in, -12.5, -6.3

McKinney CF: ---
McKinney COF: 585.2in*, -18.5, -11.3

Gurriel CF: ---
Gurriel COF: 249.0in*, +5.4, -5.7

Biggio CF:
Biggio COF: 51.0in**, -26.6, -69.3
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#376141) #
I agree, James W.  I still think that he can adapt in the bullpen. 

The ideal situation for him, in my view, is 2-3 innings every 3 games, but given the 5 game starter pattern, it doesn't really work. It is hard to avoid overusing him or underusing him, but I think you're better off underusing him and getting effective innings.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#376142) #
I have never been a fan of Sanchez (our debates here prior to 2016 are proof of that). He literally had no track record at all in the minors to indicate he could be a SP. His 2016 season made us think maybe he had turned the corner, but since then he's been right back to what he was prior to that. At this point, blister or no blister, he probably is what he is. With all that said, I think my main issue with him as mentioned already is his attitude. It is one thing to have injury issues or have trouble improving a weakness (ex. talent issue), but he seems like someone who thinks he is an ace the way he is and doesn't take accountability for his own shortcomings. I think either a light bulb will go off in his head that he needs to improve (possibly in 2020 when he and Boras see dollar signs on the line), or he'll slowly fade away and become a RP who floats from team to team.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#376143) #
I couldn't agree more sk. His attitude is terrible... on many occasions ive said to myself..."did he just say that?" Things along the lines of


"i know how great my stuff is and that i can be one of the best starters in the league, my track record shows it."


"This is only my 4th or 5th start and i didn't play much last year, so the walks are normal."

"There's only a few pitchers that can do what i've done."

Those are quotes i've read (ive generalized them) and heard on the telecast from Buck who wasn't paraphrasing. I remember Buck kind of calling him out by repeating the quote on tv.


jerjapan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#376144) #
Sanchez is a frustrating player to be sure, but dealing with recurrent blisters must be enormously difficult.  It's not like you can rehab it / hit the gym and fix the problem.  That has to wear at a player, especially given that it seems to be a result of the new ball - it's completely out of his control. 

It's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, especially when you are talking about talent that you know you have but can't demonstrate because of bad luck. 

Those quotes don't look good on him, agreed, but I have some empathy for him.  And I think a future of the type described by Mike Green would maximize his talents.  That is likely too innovative for our FO though.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#376145) #
even blisters could plausibly be the result of him having to overcompensate for a lack of prime physical conditioning. he's still the skinny-fat guy he was when we drafted him.
jerjapan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#376146) #
maybe?  I don't have the medical knowledge there but that does sound plausible.
If a 'lack of prime physical conditioning' is evidence of bad character though, I'm in trouble...
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#376148) #
If [Guerrero] loses the weight so that he can add some lateral quickness

Yeah. Just trying to think of some guys who were smaller at 25 than when they were 20.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#376149) #
I'm surprised that someone who was a terrible corner OF is also a terrible CF:) 2019 hasn't been kind to any of Hernandez, McKinney or Drury. None of them are young, none of them appear able to be more than bit parts (at best). None of them need to go today (because there aren't any prospects who absolutely need to be in Toronto in their stead) but all should be moved on from at the first chance. I'm hoping that later in the year all will be gone and replaced with Alford, Davis and Bichette. That's what 2019 should be about - finding out if your marginal roster players have anything to offer.

Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#376150) #
especially when you are talking about talent that you know you have but can't demonstrate because of bad luck.

I'm wondering if Sanchez can only be effective if he pitches in short bursts, holding the ball the way he'd like to hold the ball, thereby mitigating the blisters that may have resulted from throwing more than 15 or 20 pitches at a time. This alternative pitching style, designed to avoid blisters, just isn't working out.

And if there is any truth to my armchair diagnosis, what would it take for Sanchez to agree and accept a changed role?

Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#376151) #
Sanchez was outstanding for three seasons (well, two and a half, I suppose). Nobody knows anything, ever, but I'm assuming that he starting trying to make adjustments to try to prevent the finger problems, and in the process lost contact with the strike zone. Of course he thinks he can get back to what he was. He's still just 26 years old, for another week anyway. He actually looked pretty good to me the other night, until that ground ball went off his foot and seven of the next ten batters got base hits.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#376152) #
Just trying to think of some guys who were smaller at 25 than when they were 20.

Devers lost a bunch of weight in the off-season. Of course, whether or not he can sustain the lifestyle change indefinitely remains to be seen. I wouldn't want to bet money on it though, human nature being what it is.

Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#376153) #
Hernandez, McKinney or Drury. None of them are young... I'm hoping that later in the year all will be gone and replaced with Alford, Davis and Bichette.

Bichette is certainly young, but that's it. Davis is older than every one of those guys. Even Alford is a couple months older than McKinney.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#376154) #
Drury is certainly baffling. He'd actually established himself as a major league player, at a certain level of effectiveness - he's got almost 1,000 ABs in the Other League and he hit .271/.319/.448 through his age 24. I've also grown accustomed to seeing RH hitters with some pop come to Toronto from the NL and going "Whoa, I like hitting here." Jose and Edwin are the obvious examples, but you can thrown in guys like John Buck and Alex Gonzalez (the Second) as well. Hasn't worked out the same way for Drury, or Grichuk for that matter.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#376155) #
I wasn't suggesting that Alford or Davis were younger or better. They do offer the ability to actually, you know, play CF which would be a nice change of pace. But my view on marginal prospects in a rebuild is that you should try and give them their proverbial 500 ABs. See what they can do. Hernandez, McKinney and Drury have had their shot and have been found wanting. Give Alford and Davis their shot - you might catch lightening in a bottle. I don't have any issue if your view is that all of Hernandez, McKinney, Alford, Drury and Davis will amount to nothing - that's the most likely scenario. I've been saying all season that the next Jays CF currently is outside of the organization.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#376156) #
yeah my "young" cutoff is usually around 24. I think i'll push that to 25 in Gurriel's case, but have a hard time going any older than that - i.e. teoscar, drury, davis, brito, hanson, etc. Even though we have the experience of guys like bautista and donaldson blossoming at that kind of age, it's not something I realistically hope for anymore.

even the 24yr olds are pushing it imo - Jansen, Tellez, mckinney, alford - they're still young but not that young. they get the rookie allowance but for me they're at the age where they should be showing they can contribute at the mlb level. they're all too old for AAA time to be justified or to help them too much I think.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#376157) #
give them their proverbial 500 ABs. See what they can do.

Well, McKinney's barely halfway there. But it's all pretty confusing. Drury put in a couple of full seasons as a solid major league player before he got here. McKinney was pretty decent in his two months last year - really, a 116 OPS+ would be pretty welcome on this year's team. And Hernandez didn't have to take a big step forward from what he did last year to be a pretty useful bat. He was pretty close already. It's really alarming how all the young hitters - hello, Danny Jansen! - have begun dancing madly backwards since arriving with the 2019 Jays.

I fear for Vladdy! And Cavan! Stay where you are Bo, til we figure this out.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#376158) #
if your view is that all of Hernandez, McKinney, Alford, Drury and Davis will amount to nothing - that's the most likely scenario.

Just to clarify - that's not my view, although I'm pretty confident that Davis is no more than a September pinch-runner and defensive replacement. The other guys - too soon to tell, although Drury and Hernandez had already started to amount to something before taking a massive step backwards.
bpoz - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#376159) #
Devon White when he had success was 25. He needed a change of scenery. Junior Felix was 22.

So you never know.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#376160) #
I always view players who were signed at 16 as IFAs, or 18 as HS players, differently than the college bats that sign at 21 or 22. I am willing to give a college player a little bit more breathing room because I don't feel the college game helps all that much in comparison to the players that go right into the system and live and breathe it for years. Also these players are not moved as aggressively as in the past in most systems. It's more likely to get a 24 or 25 year old late bloomer out of college than it is to get Byron Buxton out of a high schooler.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#376162) #
Junior Felix was 22.

You mean "22".

bpoz - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#376163) #
Thanks Chuck.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#376164) #
Well that first inning surely checked all the TTO boxes.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#376165) #
man, lourdes is just slamming no-doubters regularly now.

i am preparing an exquisite plate of crow for myself on this one.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#376167) #
oh boy Danny finally got a hold of one. so good to see.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#376168) #
It's really alarming how all the young hitters - hello, Danny Jansen! - have begun dancing madly backwards since arriving with the 2019 Jays.

Is "dancing madly backwards" the equivalent to "open sesame", with the door to enlightenment now open?  Early returns are good- it does evoke a nice loose feeling so important to hitting.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#376169) #
"dancing madly backwards

Obscure 70s musical reference.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#376171) #
Well that first inning surely checked all the TTO boxes.

Not bad. 6 for 6 TTO. I wonder what the record is for the most TTO in an inning where every plate appearance is a TTO.

Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#376172) #
I am really confident with Biggio as a leadoff hitter moving forward.
Nigel - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#376173) #
But that's the thing, most of the young hitters problems didn't start with the 2019 Jays. Drury, Grichuk, Hernandez and McKinney all had previous organizations that gave up on them or sold them for close to a song. Jansen is a different kettle of fish on that front to me.
budgell - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#376176) #
Vladdy hugging and rubbing his bat on Gueriell to try and transfer some of that hot streak is all kinds of awesome.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#376177) #
Starting to get a bit nuts what gurriel is doing.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#376178) #
I admit I didn't watch the 2018 product very much, but I didn't think Gurriel Jr would hit like this either. I don't have a lot of confidence in guys whose entire production value is based on getting the ball in play and are going to take like 20-25 walks in a year.

His BB rate, while abysmal, is up this year. Though his K rate is too, and high K rates are always a concern for potential regression or inconsistent years.

I also would like to see him try out CF. I think Hernandez will improve, but I just don't see how we have room for three outfielders in the identical mould.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#376179) #
I also would like to see [Gurriel] try out CF.

I was thinking that arm might look pretty good in RF. But I'm also thinking - once he stopped changing his defensive position three times a week, his play improved. It's wonderful to have versatile players, but just doesn't a guy can play all over the diamond doesn't mean he should.

Not that it seems to bother Biggio very much.
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#376180) #
Gurriel showed last season he is a streaky hitter with his multi-hit streak, but when it all settles out I think he will be a solid above average hitter.

I like Gurriel in the corners, but generally Grichuk has better instincts/athleticism than Gurriel and even he can't hack it in the middle. I know there is a big need up the middle, but the Jays are going to have to trade for that player.

Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#376181) #
I'd like to see Sogard get rewarded for his fine play and sent off to a contending team for a fun summer. A few contenders could certainly use him. Then commit to leading off Biggio and seeing where that goes, ideally with a set position in mind (is he any worse a 2B than Travis would have been?).
Nigel - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#376182) #
I agree that the best plan is just to leave Gurriel where he is right now. Trading Sogard is an option but, funnily enough, he might be the ideal super utility player given his age and career stage. Put Biggio at 2B and let Sogard play 3/4 times a week at 2B, SS, 3B and LF. It seems a better plan than trying to turn literally every prospect into a utility player. He offers some things that this team really needs right now (LH, BB%) and he's the best infield defender on the team not named Galvis. I'd actually like to see him resigned.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#376183) #
Just a few thoughts on Willians Astudillo, who is a man out of time (and the seeming love child of Bartolo Colon and Ivan Rodriguez). First off, his listed size, 5'9" and 225 lbs, seems a tad generous in height and modest on weight.

Second, he is the anti-TTO player. In 235 career PA, he has walked just 4 times and struck out just 8 times. And he has hit just 6 HR. He has TTO'd just 8% of the time. He may well remember each of his TTO plate appearances, so rare were they.

Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#376184) #
All the respect in the world to Astudillo. When your 162 game average K total is 19...I mean, imagine if he COULD take walks. I'd love to see a modern player who takes walks at like 4-5x the rate of strikeouts. Most impressively, he has been in the Minnesota system for 10 years, and still has yet to hit 100 career strikeouts.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#376185) #
He has TTO'd just 8% of the time.

I always thought it would be hard to get under Damaso Garcia's numbers (TTO of 11.8%) but someone found a way!
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#376186) #
Astudillo sees fewer than 3 pitches per plate appearance. Not enough pitches for a walk or strikeout. It's a burglar's strategy. Get in and out before they even know you were there.
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#376187) #
"Drury is certainly baffling. He'd actually established himself as a major league player, at a certain level of effectiveness - he's got almost 1,000 ABs in the Other League and he hit .271/.319/.448 through his age 24."

The thing is, though, that Drury was playing half of his games in a tremendous hitters' park. If you looked at his road numbers, you got the true picture of how good he was. His road numbers while he was with the D-0Backs, were .241/.291/.346 in 2016 and .236/.266/.373 in 2017. He wasn't a good hitter then, and he isn't a good hitter now. His road numbers so far this year are actually very close to what he did in Arizona those 2 full seasons, .217/.280/.358. Nothing has changed - he's the same player he was then.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#376188) #
Kingham in high leverage. Interesting choice.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#376189) #
Slave to the save or is something up with Giles?
Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#376190) #
Point taken. And while players often improve on what they were when they were 23 and 24... they don't always.

Smoak coming back on Friday, most likely. Who's gone, Drury or McKinney? One or the other, right?
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#376191) #
"Starting to get a bit nuts what gurriel is doing."

In his 31 games since being recalled from AAA, Gurriel has 12 HR's, counting today. That's a 60 HR pace.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#376192) #
That's a 60 HR pace.

Perhaps it is apocryphal, but Roger Maris is said to have suffered hair loss from the stress of chasing Ruth's 60 in the year he broke Ruth's record. I'm trying to picture how that would look on Gurriel.

BlueJayWay - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#376193) #
Well, Gurriel's obviously not this good. 60 hr pace with OPS of about 1.100 or something since the recall from Buffalo. I wonder what his real level is, though? Could he be an actual star player?
Last year he had the 11 game multi-hit game streak. That's such a rare thing that maybe it's an indication he has some exceptional hitting talent.
Original Ryan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#376194) #
Montoyo has been steadfast in his refusal to use his closer in tie games on the road. I suspect Hudson was the designated closer on Friday night in Boston (to avoid using Giles in back-to-back games), and Montoyo went with Romano in the 9th and 10th instead.

I like Montoyo overall, but this aspect of his bullpen management is driving me up the wall. Even Gibby and Farrell were willing to use their closers in tie games on the road, at least some of the time. Considering how much analytics have shaped in-game strategy in recent years, it's baffling that some managers continue to value saves more than team wins.

Apparently Montoyo wasn't even asked about Giles in his postgame media availability. That's borderline malpractice by the reporters with the team.

jerjapan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#376196) #
Agreed OR.  Montoyo certainly hasn't demonstrated the creativity that I expected coming from TB.  Glad I forgot it was an afternoon game - Kingham in the 9th makes me pine for the good old days of Javy Guerra.
PeterG - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#376198) #
re Giles: he was warming up in pen along with Kingham.

Kingham needs to be given more innings not less.
Kelekin - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#376199) #
Bullpen management is still one of the absolute worst aspects of the game. Gibbons drove me nuts during his first tenure in regards to bullpen management, and he was never great at it overall, and I'd say a good amount of managers are pretty poor at it. It's one of those nonsense intrinsic feel things that have no place in a game with this level of analytics.

Your best pitcher was available, and he was available before going into a day off. There is no excuse for it.
scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#376200) #
Personally, I think Montoyo is doing the right thing with the closer.

There's no need to put pressure on Giles and potentially affect his results by putting him in a situation that is not how interested teams would use him.

Might as well lose in the 9th than in the 10th or later.

scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#376202) #
Sogard is a free agent. Whenever Bichette comes up, they'll need to free one spot on the infield and Galvis has an option for next year. I think it's up to what teams are willing to offer for either or both of them.
scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#376203) #
Speaking of centerfielders, Pillar leads the Giants in hits, run scored, RBIs, HRs and stolen bases.

Yeah,  they don't have a great team.



Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#376204) #
And the pitcher who gets credited with the W today? Would that be someone who knows what it's like to see a team lose while their best relief pitcher is looking on from the bullpen? Yes, it would. Hey, Zach Britton and Edwin are teammates now.
scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#376205) #
Drury would be a shock. McKinney just got here. Maybe they put someone else on the IL.
scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#376206) #
Astudillo is known as La Tortuga.
I'm guessing he doesn't run well.

Magpie - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#376207) #
Maybe they put someone else on the IL.

So long as you're not asking the manager to struggle along with just 12 pitchers on the active roster. Because that would be...
Original Ryan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#376208) #
There's no need to put pressure on Giles and potentially affect his results by putting him in a situation that is not how interested teams would use him.

He's used in tie games in the 9th at home, so doing it on the road wouldn't be unfamiliar territory. In fact, it probably would've been better health-wise to use him in the 9th today, rather than potentially keeping him warming up and on perpetual standby in the bullpen during extras (e.g. Zack Britton in the 2016 Wild Card game).

Also, we have no idea how an acquiring team will want to use Giles. It's not uncommon for closers to go to contending teams and be used in non-closer roles, so Giles could very well find himself pitching in these types of situations elsewhere. At this point, other teams are probably more interested in knowing that Giles is healthy and effective, and sitting him for a week isn't a good way to demonstrate that.

scottt - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#376209) #
Drury, like Voit, is a right handed hitter who hits the other way.
He had a chance to fit in Yankees Stadium with the short porch in right, but that didn't happen.
We'll probably never know what the Jays liked about him.

hypobole - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 08:14 PM EDT (#376212) #
Montoyo wasn't hired to be a tactician, he is a player development guy. When the Astros were awful Luhnow hired Bo Porter. Only when they were ready to contend is when Hinch was brought in. Some with the Epstein in Chicago, Dale Sveum through the rebuild, Maddon to contend.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#376213) #
I am ecstatic that the Jay's lost the final game of the first half. They are ready to soar in the second half and reward all of us with an off-season of BGs.

Biggio's hit in the 9th was exactly what I wanted to see- going away against the shift. And once to see Jansen getting some hits with a little bit of luck finally.
Original Ryan - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#376214) #
Even Tim & Sid on the quasi-postgame show were questioning not going with Giles in the 9th. You don't need to be a great tactician to know that you should go with your best reliever with the game on the line and not (arguably) your worst.
hypobole - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#376215) #
When Montoyo was hired out of the Rays system, people (including myself) thought he would bring the Rays thinking with him. I think he pretty quickly indicated he's an old school guy like Buck Showalter. Don't think what he did was the right move to win the game, but not surprised in the least he did what he did.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#376216) #
I also expected Montoyo to be in the Rays mold of managers, but he's pretty much the exact opposite. He is the definitely the guy who will manage the tanking years and then be replaced when the team is looking to contend.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#376217) #
What kind of FO hires a manager to be fired and replaced?
SK in NJ - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#376218) #
How many (good) manager candidates would have taken a job when they knew the team was going to be awful, possibly for multiple years? Some times you need a stopgap manager who will be around for all the losing when any candidate with options wouldn't take the position. If Montoyo looked like Kevin Cash from a game to game strategy standpoint then that's a different story, but he's an older manager (for today's era) with an old school mentality who likely would have never managed anywhere else. The crux of his experience is dealing with AAA aged players and helping developing them. Seems like a pretty obvious fall guy, unless the team suddenly becomes good in 2020, which looks highly unlikely.
hypobole - Wednesday, June 26 2019 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#376219) #
"What kind of FO hires a manager to be fired and replaced?"

Well, I just mentioned both the Astros and Cubs.
dan gordon - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#376224) #
"Last year he had the 11 game multi-hit game streak. That's such a rare thing that maybe it's an indication he has some exceptional hitting talent."

It's certainly one indication, although a very small sample of games. One of the main reasons why I've been so optimistic about Gurriel for quite a while is the time he missed in his development. He didn't play pro ball for about a year and a half right in the middle of what would be important development years. Some folks here just look at a players age compared to their level and make an assessment - you know the "he's too old for his level" comments. Well, age is absolutely an extremely important factor in assessing a player's potential. But it's not the only consideration - you have to look at situations where a player hasn't played for significant periods due to injury, or like in Gurriel's case. Young players improve not just because they're getting older, but because they're playing games and learning various aspects of hitting, pitching, fielding, etc. To do that you have to be actually playing. Gurriel's 25 now, but factor in the year and a half he missed, plus some time to get back into it when he started playing again, and he's more like a 23 year old player in terms of his development. He's going to have a great career.
Glevin - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 03:25 AM EDT (#376227) #
The past couple of weeks is how I envisioned the season going in and much more bearable. Some good play, some bad play, some hopeful things, and plenty of losses. I am fine with the Jays losing if young players develop. The issue earlier in the year, is that nobody looked any good except our veteran middle infielders, so it was losing without any long-term hope. Now, it's possible to see future building blocks which makes watching the team a different experience.
Magpie - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 03:41 AM EDT (#376228) #
What kind of FO hires a manager to be fired and replaced?

I think it happens often enough - a team knows it needs a development specialist to work with the young kids as they turn into major leaguers, and that they'll need someone else when Winning Time arrives. Obviously, no one's ever going to say that out loud at the time.

The Blue Jays certainly did it, back in the day. Bobby Mattick wasn't really a manager at all (he'd managed a couple of years in the minors, but that was literally decades before the Jays put him in the dugout.) He was a strictly a player development guy. Didn't even want to wear a uniform in the dugout.
scottt - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 06:12 AM EDT (#376229) #
The win/loss this year is not important.
Especially not the remaining games of this year.
I've always hated how the already eliminated Jays used to win in September against teams just ahead of them in the standings just to pad out the manager's record at the cost of the draft.

Sure, try to beat the division rivals, but the priority is to develop the young guys and put the trade assets in good light.

scottt - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 06:15 AM EDT (#376230) #
I still think you need to give Jansen the platoon advantage as often as you can.
Basically all lefties this series and he did better.

scottt - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 06:17 AM EDT (#376231) #
I was thinking of Hernandez going to the IL because of a setback with his wrist.
scottt - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 06:32 AM EDT (#376232) #
even blisters could plausibly be the result of him having to overcompensate for a lack of prime physical conditioning. he's still the skinny-fat guy he was when we drafted him.

That's probably not your best narrative.
Stro might have come up with his blisters because of his shoulder. Possible.
Sanchez's blister this year, seem to have happened because he was rubbing his cold hands between innings. Sounds a bit weird, but possible.
I'd venture that maybe a lack of manual exercise during the off season was a larger contributing factor than a lack of cardio.
hypobole - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 08:28 AM EDT (#376233) #
Sanchez blister issues resulted from the new, thicker seamed balls. He's changed his grip to alleviate the issue, but his 2 seamer simply has not been effective anymore.

Speaking of the new balls and bad pitchers, the O's gave up 5 more dingers to bring their season total to 165 in 80 games. They're hoping to get to mid-August before they blow past the record 258 the Reds gave up 2 years ago. They've allowed 25 more HR's than the next worst Mariners, who along with the Phillies and Angels are also on pace to pass the Reds record.
Only 4 years ago, in 2015, the Tigers 193 allowed was the worst in baseball. 24 teams this year are on pace to surpass 193.

Our staff is in the next tier down, on pace for *only* 240. Somewhat surprisingly the 120 we've given up so far is sandwiched between the Astros 121 and Yankees 118.

And one hopeful note for those worried about our pitching 2 years from now - the record setting Reds of 2 years ago trail only the Rays in yielding the fewest HR's this year.
AWeb - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 09:08 AM EDT (#376235) #
Sanchez simply has fingers which aren't well suited to starting pitching. He had a finger ligament strain once too, which is a rare injury as far as I can tell. Some pitchers have recurring bum shoulders or elbows, he's got bad fingers.

The organization seems to have no stomach for dealing with him as what he has been so far - the worst starting pitcher in baseball who qualifies for the ERA title. Sanchez has the worst WHIP by a good margin, worst ERA+, worst K/BB ratio, worst fangraphs WAR, worst walk rate, and is high on the HBP and WP totals too. His performance demands either a demotion to the minors to work on something (anything?), or a demotion to the bullpen at the least. As suggested above, maybe make him a 3 inning opener or something and see if he can manage 60 good pitches, because he can't manage 100. The only justification I can see is the desperate need for innings from someone. I mean, he's better than Jackson was at least...
PeterG - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#376242) #
Interesting article on Grichuk and the adjustments he is trying to make:

https://www.bluejaysbeat.com/2019/06/27/whats-behind-randal-grichuk-struggles/
hypobole - Thursday, June 27 2019 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#376244) #
Thanks, Peter, great find.
hypobole - Friday, June 28 2019 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#376280) #
Couple of interesting bits from the Twins-Rays 18 inning game yesterday:

The teams used a total of 19 pitchers. In this era of 3 true outcomes, they had a combined 11 BB's, 39 K's and ... 0 HR's.

"Five players went 0-for-7 or worse, the first time that has happened since 1901, according to Elias Sports Bureau research. Max Kepler and Avisail Garcia each went 0-for-8" - from ESPN.
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