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Sorry, I can't think of anything witty, topical or otherwise interesting to say about this late-season matchup of two also-rans. Miguel Batista starts for Toronto, and seriously needs to regain his command; August and September have been brutal for him. He'll pitch to Gregg Zaun, not Guillermo Quiroz, but Russ Adams and Gabe Gross get the nod against Orioles righty Rodrigo Lopez. And that's pretty much about it.
Game 146: Playing Out The String | 52 comments | Create New Account
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_Tassle - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#19400) #
Wow, this is one depressingly empty thread. The game started 40 minutes ago, people. What an awful season.

WOO Vernon!

That is all
_sweat - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#19401) #
Stupid espn gamecast is screwing up. I came here hoping for some details. WAKE UP FOOLS!!
_Andrew Ward - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:49 PM EDT (#19402) #
Anyone know what Batista's lifetime record is?
_benum - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#19403) #
Ugly (4-1 O's bottom of the 2nd)

Gamecast sucks, try:

(way better)
_Andrew Ward - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:50 PM EDT (#19404) #
Anyone know what Batista's lifetime record is?
_benum - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#19405) #
No, but it's not very difficult to look up his lifetime record.
_6-4-3 - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#19406) #
He's 52-61 lifetime.

From 1996 - 1999, he went 11-17
In 2000, he went 2-7 (for Kansas City + Montreal)
In 2001, he went 11-8 for Arizona.
In 2002, he went 8-9
In 2003, he went 10-9
This year, he's 10-11
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#19407) #
Quite frankly,'s GameDay craps on everything else. Shocking to me that anyone even uses anything else.
_Nicholas - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#19408) #
Batista lifetime record including 2004 52 - 61 ERA 4.43...
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#19409) #
Not to be whiney, but I really don't like listening to Black and Tabler. In fact, I quite enjoy referring to the two of them as "Blabler."
_Thomas M - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#19410) #
Anyone know what Batista's lifetime record is?
52 Ws 61 Ls.
Thomas - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#19411) #
Wow. What's the record low for a game thread? We're on pace for about 30.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#19412) #
Yeah, that was answered 8 minutes ago. :-)

Geez, why does Gibbons have a .440 OBP wasted in the no.9 spot? ;)
Thomas - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#19413) #
Re: our discussion of unusual double plays from an Angels game a few days back.

Today, the Brewers turned a crazy 5-2-9-4-9-1-6 double play to end the ninth inning.
_6-4-3 - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#19414) #
I'm not sure what the official record is, but looking down the main page, on September 10th, there were 23 posts in the thread.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#19415) #
It seems lately there's very few people interested in watching the start of the game. Lots of people show up in the 8th/9th to bitch/celebrate, so I doubt this thread will only get 30 replies. By tomorrow, it'll probably be around the 60-70 we're used to.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#19416) #
Do any of the Roster members keep stats like that somewhere? Like, highest/lowest post total for a thread/poster, most used word, etc.

It would be interesting to look at, if the stats are kept.
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#19417) #
I'm becoming worried about Batista for 2005. He's been pretty bad the last month and a half and his command has absolutely deserted him. The thing that's always surprised me is how hard he gets hit when he makes a mistake. I think his stuff is better than that, and he could get away with some mistakes due to his movement. Either way...I hope he figures something out this offseason-perhaps just simplify things to refine his command.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#19418) #
Batista out of the game after failing to retire a batter in the third.

Here comes Ryan Glynn to keep it a 5-run game. Sac fly, 7-1 O's now. But at least there are two outs.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#19419) #
Boy, that's putting it mildly, Dr. Z.

Since the start of August, Batista has 30 walks and just 15 K's. That is just scary bad. If he has a back injury, hopefully it's fixable. And, hopefully it's not the kind of recurring back thing that Ed Belfour has.

Great catch from Wells! He's looked sharp today, anyways.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#19420) #
Yeah, I'd say Wells is sharp. :-)

What a BOMB!
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#19421) #
FIFTH DECK!!!! Yeah Vernon!! Hells yeah. That was crushed!!
_6-4-3 - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#19422) #
A month or so ago, there was a link posted to a stats page for the site, which had users arranged by number of posts, and then posts / thread was calculated.

I'm deeply concerned about Batista. Looking at his ESPN profile, his K's are down a lot, his walks are up a lot, and his slugging percentage allowed this year is the highest it's been since 2000, when he posted an ERA of 8.54 with the Expos and Royals. Hopefully it's just an injury, and that time will heal it.
_Dan H - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#19423) #
If it is an injury though, wouldn't they shut him down at this point?
_6-4-3 - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#19424) #
I think they might've had Towers not gone out with an injury. I shudder to contemplate who might possibly be behind Glynn on the "emergency starter" depth chart.

Then again, it might just be a nagging injury that won't go away for a while and can't get worse. I honestly haven't heard many details about it.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#19425) #
I shudder to contemplate who might possibly be behind Glynn on the "emergency starter" depth chart.

It's Douglass. ;)
_Dan H - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#19426) #
My concern over it being a nagging injury that might not get worse is that he may alter his mechanics to compensate for the discomfort, opening himself up to further injury elsewhere.

Not that I'm second guessing the Jays; I know they're in a lot better position to make a call like this; just curious (and a bit concerned) :)
_Fozzy - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#19427) #
I gotta say, we need a rally monkey, or something to get people fired up in big situations.
_Tassle - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#19428) #
Man, it feels nice to see Vernon snap out of his slump. I can't wait to see how he rebounds next year.
_6-4-3 - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#19429) #
The Jays already have their rally program. How can you forget:

Get up on your feet, Skydome!
We are Toronto!
We are Baseball North!

Of course, I have to believe that this would be more effective if the Blue Jays only used it in actual rally situations. Nothing was funnier than when the Jays tried to pump up the crowd with it during the bottom of the ninth of Monday's 9-1 loss.
_braden - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#19430) #
Anyone else concerned with Rios's strikeouts lately? He's up to about 75 now with 21 walks. It seems as though he's been k'ing at least once, usually twice a night the past couple of weeks.

I've always been concerned about the fact that he appears to fall behind in the count nearly every at bat. It could be that I'm just watching him a bit more closely than the other players, but I've gotta say, I'm a tad purturbed.

Arrrgh, I thought that was going to be a big inning.
_Ryan Lind - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#19431) #
Jays load the bases with no outs, but only score one run.

Well, it's one run more than usual, so I'm happy. Plus, I didn't expect much once BJ Ryan came in. I wish Mighty Mouse had PHed for Hinske though, then I would have at least felt a little bit confident.
_Scott Levy - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#19432) #
It's time for my usual (BB)Batista bitching for tonight..

Trade him. Quickly. For anyone.

I'm finished.
_James W - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#19433) #
Well.. they'd scored 1 run before getting any outs. So really, it was bases loaded, 0 out, and 1 run in. And they ended up with 1 run. Brutal, and typical, unfortunately.
_Rob - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#19435) #
At least we have our health.

But no Wilner tonight.
I am quite dumb when it comes to Jewish holidays, which one is this? And, when will he be back? ;)
_JackFoley - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#19436) #
Rosh Hashanah, which I believe ends tomorrow.
_Rob - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#19437) #
Ah. Thanks, JF.

"The" Alex Gonzalez was just traded to San Diego, by the way. Heard it on the FAN.
_JackFoley - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#19438) #
I was wondering if the Pads would do something in the wake of Greene's injury---interesting move. Might be too little too late for the fathers, though.
_Andrew S - Thursday, September 16 2004 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#19439) #
For what it's worth, I recall the word on Batista being that he's a lower endurance starter, and tends to struggle towards the end of the season.

Hmm. I could maybe rally up some stats to see if this is true, but I have an earlier class tommorow.
_Ryan Lind - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#19440) #
Meh, I'll do it. Stats is my middle name.


Obviously there's more to it than ERA by month, but there's a quick look for ya. I don't see much consistency, except he's always good in July, and always bad in September. His August last year was good though, and his August '02 was awesome.

_6-4-3 - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 12:11 AM EDT (#19441) #
(Consarn it, I was beaten by 8 minutes . . . )

Miguel Batista's three year splits (from ESPN):

April 65.2 innings, 4.25 ERA
May 86.1 innings, 3.23 ERA
June 91.2 innings, 3.83 ERA
July 93.2 innings, 3.08 ERA
August 91.2 innings, 3.44 ERA
September 82.2 innings, 5.12 ERA

Pre All Star 272 innings, 3.77 ERA
Post All Star 245 innings, 3.75 ERA
(here is pre and post numbers in K's, walks, batting average, etc are almost identical)

Miguel Batista's monthly splits, this year

April 28.1 innings, 6.04 ERA
May 38.1 innings, 4.46 ERA
June 37.1 innings, 1.93 ERA
July 39.0 innings, 3.92 ERA
August 34.2 innings, 6.49 ERA
September 10.1 innings, 7.84 ERA

His walks have been steady (around 17 per month), but his Ks have been all over the place (from April: 15, 30, 21, 16, 11). From May -July, batters generally hit around .250 against him. Since the All-Star break, batters are hitting .301 against Batista.

Just for fun, and because I have too much time, I give you Miguel Batista's report card ratings:
April "D": His wildness and inconsistency mentioned.
May "C": More control problems.
June "A" : But his low K/IP ratio is mentioned, "bad things to come" predicted
July "A-": Again his low K/IP ration is mentioned, first question as to whether he is hurt
August "D+": Fatigue is mentioned, as are the facts that he's never pitched 200+ innings and usually pitched out of the bullpen for parts of the season. Possible shut-down / injury mentioned.

To summarize, in general he falls off in September, but this year's decline has been faster and steeper than his usual one, possibly because of the combination of fatigue and injury.
_Ryan Lind - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 12:37 AM EDT (#19442) #
Nice. Now if someone can make a graph...
_doctor_payne13 - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 12:50 AM EDT (#19443) #
COMN for the TSN game recap, which includes notes on Batista pitching only in short relief situations for the rest of this season, then possibly becoming the closer next year. I know there was a Griffin article on this earlier this year, but this comes straight from the mouths of Patterson and Batista.

Does anyone agree that a move like that would be completely insane? In addition to strong performances recently by Speier, and a very possible rebound season next year from Ligtenberg (we still haven't seen him at full health), Batista seems to be at his worst at the start of the game. He can't be make mistakes in the 9th inning the same way he does in the 1st inning. Not to mention how all the walks he gives up would absolutely kill him as a closer... Jason Frasor, anyone?
_P Smith - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 01:55 AM EDT (#19444) #
It would be risky, but not insane. Batista has made many relief appearances in his career, and pitched well enough that he worked his way into the starting rotation.

I presume that his approach to coming out of the bullpen will differ from starting a game, and hopefully improve his performance against the first few batters. But he definitely has to improve his control to survive in any role next season, starter or relief.
_Ron - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 02:04 AM EDT (#19445) #
I find it strange Batista is being discussed as a bullpen guy now.

JP said yesterday the rotation was basically set for next season with the guys on the current roster and said a trio of Doc, Batista, and Lilly gives the Jays a fighting chance in every series.

Considering the Jays work on a 50 mil payroll, why waste that much money on Bastista as the closer then.

As mentioned above Batista is a slow starter and do you really want a closer that has very poor command of the strike zone and doesn't K people?

The Batista signing right now looks like a huge bust similar to the Hinske long term deal.
_Fozzy - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 03:05 AM EDT (#19446) #

The article simply said they were "considering using him in short relief for the remainder of the season in a potential tryout for the closer's role next season." What happens next year is anyone's guess; I just think it's a little premature to get in a tizzy about next year based on "what-ifs" in one passing article.

If he's going through dead-arm now, why not? The season is a bust and with Halladay back they have some luxury to spot start Douglass or Glynn.

The Batista signing right now looks like a huge bust similar to the Hinske long term deal.

Why would you say that about either deal? Sounds like needless harping to me.
_Ron - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 03:15 AM EDT (#19447) #
The Batista signing right now looks like a huge bust similar to the Hinske long term deal.

Why would you say that about either deal? Sounds like needless harping to me.

I just feel like Batista isn't worth the money the Jays paid him this season. And with his age, I tend to believe he's on the downward path of his career. I sure hope I'm dead wrong and perhaps Batista is injured (although if he is, he's better off telling the club because he's not helping the club right now)because he's locked for 2 more seasons.

As for Hinske ....... he's hitting at replacement level. I take into consideration he's getting a pretty big bump in salary the upcoming seasons.

I'm just frustrated at the whole season. Da Box has helped curb a little bit of misery because I enjoy discussing the Jays with you guys but I just feel so defeated.
_Fozzy - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 03:36 AM EDT (#19448) #
Ron, I feel your pain. This season has been a tough one to endure.

I'll go so far as to agree that the salaries could be a bust, but they're part of the gamble of professional sports. If all that the Jays ever did was sign 1 year deals, I think two things would happen. 1) no one would ever want to play here, and they have enough problems with that already (plus the loss of the reward system for good play) 2) when a player wildly exceeds expectations, signing them will be next to impossible. See Ted Lilly for a prime example. If all JP got last year was a 1-year deal (which quite a few people were ripping on him for giving him a multi-year in the winter), he'd be as good as gone next year; if not that then there would be a lot of the extra spending money for next year's budget. Same thing with the Hinske and Wells deals. While they may have seemed strange at the time, consider if Wells stays healthy, and hits near .300 with 35 dingers a year for the next 2 years, while winning 2 gold gloves; depending on the market we could have lost him halfway through the deal with arbitration.

Personally, I think that if even one of Hinske and Wells can reach their potential, then both long-term deals will be worth it. Ditto for Batista and Lilly, which, from all viewpoints this far, seems to be in the cards. At worst with Batista, you have a guy that can give you 4 or 5 months of excellent starts and 2 months of bullpen, at a time when you want to be bringing up young guys through a rapidly advancing farm system. Somewhere the Arnolds and the Rosarios and the McGowans and the Leagues and the Chacins are going to have to start, and with Halladay, Batista, Lilly, Towers, Miller and Bush already there, someone or two is going to get the bump.

As for Hinske, when you also factor in how "rich" the crop of third basemen in the majors is (all I can think of is Chavez and a converted shortstop as premier AL players at the spot), to have one locked up for another 3 years is pretty good. .285 with some power and solid defense for the price doesn't seem that bad a deal when the numbers are crunched, and it's certainly not in Manny or Carlos territory, especially when the payroll is unknown that far into the future; for all we know Rogers could invest another 30 million into the team's budget by then and the lot of this conversation will be forgotten. IMO, I still think we haven't seen the best from Hinske, but I think to expect much more than his rookie campaign would be to set the bar a little high. To call him a bust though is a bit much.

This Jays team seems to reward hard work and results. Don't be surprised if we're on here next year discussing the long-term deals for Orlando Hudson and the year after, Alex Rios and Dave Bush.
_Fozzy - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 03:48 AM EDT (#19449) #
Ooops, with Hinske as 285 I of course meant potentially. And if we're calling Hinske a replacement level hitter, when you consider that this year's BA title is held by (in order): a rookie with 9 games under his belt (Adams), someone out for the season (Cat), another rookie who's played less than 100 games (Rios), backups Gomez and Menechino, the perverbial fourth outfielder (Johnson), and then the guy who was supposed to hit .300 (Wells), it's pretty much been a sad story all around. So with the exception of 9-game player Russ Adams, no one is hitting above 300; the closest active player is Rios with .285. Hitting for average at replacement level is the lot of this year's team, especially someone like Hinske, who, being pretty much the only position player not to sit out part of the season with injury, had the lot of the offense put onto his shoulders, and the results speak for themselves.

Just looking at the stats, I see that everyone's relegated fourth outfielder Reed Johnson leads the team in hits, followed by Hinske. Yes folks, it's just been that kind of year.
_Ron - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 03:58 AM EDT (#19450) #
Woah .... I didn't know Hinske was second on the team in hits..... yikes

Bad combination of injury problems and poor performance for the Jays this season.

I just feel like Hinske should be a better player than what he is. He's a hard worker and he plays with passion. I still remember in his rookie season when he was yelling at an ump from the dugout to protect a teammate. That had leader written all over it. From what Hinske said in Spring Training (best shape of his life, fully recovered from injury)I thought he would have a similar season to his rookie campaign.
_Smack - Friday, September 17 2004 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#19451) #
Who didn't hear the little kid at last night's game yell, "Hinske, You Suck!" after he failed to score a runner with the bases loaded.

Hinske cannot be considered a bust yet. And people who complain about his deal have to realize he is playing to his salary right now. The big pay hike starts next year, and if he remains at this performance level, then he is a problem for the team. But at the time, I don't know any team who wouldn't have locked teh two guys up like that, considering what arbitratration would have cost each year and the chance of them being too expensive to keep. Fozzy was bang on, and if you remember Hinkse's rookie year, people thought his batting average was pretty good for his first year, but expected the power and defense to imprive because of his late season exploits, and his hard working attitude. I bet if like so many people suggest, we give him away for a bag of pucks, the same people would start crying if he becomes a solid above average 3rd baseman. Some gambles are neccesary.

On another note, JP said he was looking to draft someone that would progress through the system fast. I really hope they don't overlook other skills for maturity if they are drafting 5th or 7th overall. When you are in the middle of the first round, the gap in talent is much smaller, and things like time to Majors is important, but we have enough solid prospects to take a stalwalt player who might progress early, or may take a while to be real good. I think we can all wait, since the goal is to become a perennial contender.
Game 146: Playing Out The String | 52 comments | Create New Account
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