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Welcome to quaint, old Fenway Park.

Twelve days ago, the Red Sox had to be feeling pretty good about things. They'd just finished sweeping the Damn Yankees, something always deeply satisfying to folks in New England. They'd got back above .500 and were riding a five game winning streak as they prepared for a nine game road trip. 

They'd already boarded the bus to the airport when they - and the rest of us - learned that Rafael Devers, merely the guy that the lineup had been built around, had been traded, and for what looked like a very marginal return. That, I promise you, is a kick n the head for any team. The Sox did keep winning for a while, taking three of their first four west coast games. But they've since dropped their last five games, and their season has a real chance to go swirling down the drain.

Let's see if the Blue Jays can help them on their Journey to the Bottom. The Jays will conclude the first half of the schedule tonight, and depending on how this evening's game goes, they'll be on pace for 86 wins. Or 88. Which is about what most people were expecting, as I recall. 

It's how they got there that's somewhat more interesting. Because it certainly had very little to do with any of Ross Atkins' big, splashy off-season moves - Max Scherzer, Anthony Santander, and Andres Gimenez have been either injured, underwhelming, or both. I realize Santander was, to a large extent, replacing Davis Schneider in the lineup, so it's not like much was lost. It's still been disappointing. There is, of course, still half a season remaining for that part of the story to change. 

But a great many of Atkins' smaller moves, that generally went completely under the radar at the time, have worked out better than anyone could have dreamed - getting Brendon Little in a straight cash deal, signing Eric Lauer off the refuse pile after he's been released by the Astros. Nathan Lukes was a six year minor leaguer who'd just hit .219/.294/.319 in AAA at age 24. Not to mention signing Ernie Clement after he'd been released by the Athletics. I would also suggest that Myles Straw has been far more useful than anyone could have dreamed, about as useful as a guy who really can't hit could possibly be. The dumpster diving has gone well, although I don't know if that describes Lauer - he was a quality starting pitcher on a contending team for a couple of years. He's someone recovering his form rather than a guy doing something completely unforeseeable.

But a key thing that's gone right was, I would suggest, quite easy to foresee. After all, I foresaw it, which suggests that it was probably Pretty Bleeding Obvious. The main thing that went wrong with the 2024 Blue Jays was the horrible, awful, no-good bullpen - something that should always be easy to fix, as useful relief pitchers grow on trees - and the surprising under-performance of three key hitters (Bichette, Springer, Kirk). Two of those three (Bichette and Springer) I was pretty confident would bounce back smartly. And so they have. Kirk's bat bouncing back to life as well has been a welcome bonus. 

And I would like to give some flowers to the manager. Someone should, and no one else will. Criticism of Schneider - like criticism of all managers - tends to happen on a micro level, on specific bits of game management (usually involving the bullpen.) Moves that didn't work - well, that's inevitable. It's the moves that don't seem to make sense, on any level that we can fathom, that tend to bother people most. But still, it's never interested me that much. For one thing, it's true of all managers. Trust me. All of them. While I may not know why Schneider's doing what he's doing, I do know what I don't know. Which probably amounts to at least half of what any decision of his is based on. No manager is going to share all of the factors that go into their decision-making with the general public. So, if I can restrain myself (alas, it's not always possible) I'd rather not even go there. I don't know which guys are nursing a hangover.

But on a macro level - well, this team had a brutal early schedule and basically didn't hit any home runs for the first month of the season. And it turned out they had just three competent starting pitchers. They could have easily been buried by mid-May. They weren't. They kept playing hard, and competing, and here they are. The manager should get some credit for that. 

One more thing. The Toronto Blue Jays are not exactly famous for playing smart, mistake-free baseball. Now, nobody's perfect and Jonatan Clase is doing his best to keep the old ways alive, but it's been a while since I've seen a Jays team that screwed up less often than this group. We probably have to go back to the veteran laden teams of ten years ago. They don't beat themselves as often as they used to. Maybe the manager should get some credit for that, too.

We can go into the second half cautiously optimistic. Santander and Gimenez are likely to clear the Mendoza Line at some point. Bichette and Guerrero have been solid, but neither has exactly been hot, and both are more than capable of carrying the offense all by themselves. They've done it before. And hey, Alek Manoah reportedly hit 95 in his last bullpen session (I know, the velocity returns before the command does.)

Matchups

Fri 27 June - Berrios (3-3, 3.51) vs Bello (3-2, 3.31)
Sat 28 June - Bassitt (7-3, 3.61) vs Giolito (3-1, 4.53)
Sun 29 June - Lauer (4-1, 2.21) vs Buehler (5-5, 6.29)
Toronto at Boston, June 27-29 | 59 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
mathesond - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#462411) #
Thanks for that Magpie. Puts me in a good mood as I get ready to see Budos Band (I can only imagine the score I will see when I get home).
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#462412) #
Guerrero is off. Clement plays first. 

Boston is on a 5-game losing streak and has scored 3.11 runs per game since trading Devers.
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#462414) #
Lineup sure feels light without Guerrero. 

Anthony hasn't figured it out yet.
Exit velo is good. So is barrel %, but it has resulted in week contact.
He doesn't chase, but he's been whiffing on balls in zone.
25% K and 18% walks.
He seems to have done better on change ups and worse on fastballs.
0-for-18 on 4-seamers. His homerun was on a sinker. Uppercut swing, I guess.
vw_fan17 - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#462415) #
Speaking of better Jays defense (I agree!), did Manzardo (I think) really end up charged with 3 errors in one inning yesterday?

One wonders if anyone (Magpie?) keeps track of such things, and how often such things happen..
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#462416) #
Feels like Wagner should be up (likely for Clase) at this point. Jays don't have a backup 1Bman and Clement has now started 6 games there which is just absurd and Jays have so many Ofers as is.
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#462417) #
And now Vlad is back in which of course forces Roden out of the lineup.
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#462418) #
As long as he can swing, I'll have Vlad over Roden.

Jose Ramirez is still out of the Cleveland lineup.
It's only a win if Vladdy has a big hit.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#462420) #
One wonders if anyone (Magpie?) keeps track of such things, and how often such things happen.

Somebody else, maybe!

Willie Davis, playing centre field, famously made three errors in the same inning of a World Series game, the last start of Sandy Koufax's career.

And Bob Brenly, a catcher playing third base, made four errors in the fourth inning of a game in 1986, booting three ground balls and making a bad throw. He then hit a homer in the fifth, a two-run single to tie the game in the seventh, and a walk off homer in the bottom of the ninth.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#462421) #
Whoa. Tommy John once made three errors on the same play. That's special.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#462422) #
do not lose this series.
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#462423) #
I was at Jarry Park when (I’m pretty sure - it was 1974 or 75) Larry Parrish of the Expos made three errors on the same play. Ground ball hit to third which Parrish booted and the ball rolled towards the 3B dugout. The batter thinking he might make it to second rounded first but Parrish had the ball and tried to throw behind the runner at first but threw it into RF. The batter took off and by the time the RF got the ball there was a play at 3rd. The RF threw a perfect strike to get the runner except Parrish dropped the throw.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#462425) #
sweet 2 out offense.

but really, Springer spent most of his career as a leadoff guy, clearly deserves that role this year, and Bo doesn't.
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#462426) #
After Bo, 5 great ABs.
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#462427) #
What a play by Clement.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#462428) #
more babip killing clement vRHP
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#462429) #
I was at Jarry Park when (I’m pretty sure - it was 1974 or 75) Larry Parrish of the Expos made three errors on the same play.

I hate to be that guy (who am I kidding? I live for this stuff!) but according to bb-ref, he did not.

But I think I found your game! At Jarry Park against the Mets, Parrish misplays a groun ball by Del Unser of the Mets (Unser was a Met? I remember him as a Phillie) and then makes an error on the throw, with Unser taking second. 

But I couldn't find Parrish making three errors in the same game.
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#462430) #
That was definitely the play! They must not have given him an error on the catch. I promise you he dropped an out! Thanks for the research:). Very cool.
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#462431) #
Barger is struggling right now. I really don’t like Clement running through the stop sign but with Barger struggling I probably would have been more aggressive with the decision to send or not. All’s well that ends well but our 3rd base coach has been so good this year he should generally be obeyed.
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#462432) #
Don't love bunting in the second inning. Time to try to score lots of runs not to try to squeeze one run out.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#462433) #
can we get clement out of the lineup already.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#462434) #
Tommy John is still the king!

With one out and Jim Gantner on first, Jeffrey Leonard reached on a comebacker that John misplayed (error #1); he then threw the baseball into right field trying to get him (error #2) allowing Gantner to score. Dave Winfield threw the ball back in, John cut it off - and threw it into the dugout (error #3), giving Leonard a Little League homer.

Granted, Tommy John - who was 45 years old at the time - would pitch 8 innings that night, improving his record to 8-3, and the Yankees would win 16-3.
greenfrog - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#462435) #
Clement’s fabulous 2025 continues apace. He’s not going to stop until the doubters capitulate!
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 08:14 PM EDT (#462437) #
I have zero idea why Clase is getting ABs over Roden.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#462438) #
165wrc+ for Clase in his last 5gms helps.
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#462439) #
Huge hit by Kirk. Now, want the Jays to trash the Red Sox bullpen to help setup rest of series.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#462440) #
Give Berrios the 8th, coach.
hypobole - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#462441) #
Prior to tonight, Clement had walked 26 times in 779 PA's as a Jay - so what he's done today would have taken 90 PA's. .
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#462442) #
Yeah but his exit velocity on those walks was just lucky.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#462443) #
Prior to this season, Clement had never walked twice in the same game. Ever. This year - once in April, once in May. And three times tonight.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#462444) #
The Importance of Playing Ernie, a play in 9 acts.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#462445) #
Gimenez clears the Mendoza Line!
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#462446) #
Don't let up!
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#462447) #
The best news of the night is that Gimenez has looked better tonight than at any time since the first week of the season.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#462448) #
jays now have a positive run differential (+8), Red Sox a negative one (-2).

yanks won, but tampa blew a 6-0 lead and is trailing the Orioles 11-8 in the 7th.
greenfrog - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#462449) #
Clement wRC+ now up to 119. His Savant Fielding Run Value is 96th percentile. He’s on a 5+ WAR pace for the season.

Pretty good for someone people think is (a) unenjoyable to watch play baseball, (b) should be benched more often, (c) has a disappointing WPA (*), and/or (d) should be dangled as trade bait this summer.

* This is the first I’ve ever heard this argument made about any player (has a bad WPA).
greenfrog - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#462450) #
The Importance of Playing Ernie

By Oscar “Effectively” Wilde.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#462451) #
heh, nice.

to add to your other post - Ernie is currently tied for #20 WAR in MLB.
Gerry - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#462452) #
Italics Be Gone
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#462453) #
Boy do i love beating the red sox. Badly. And in Fenway.


Rays now down 7 heading into the 8th.

Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#462454) #
always great to beat the Red Sox. Would love to bury them this series but one win at a time!
92-93 - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#462455) #
There is no argument about Clement’s WPA, it merely is what it is. He hasn’t been that clutch this season, as can be seen by his RBI total (perhaps you’ve heard people mention a player’s RBI total in the past). It doesn’t mean he won’t be clutch moving forward. His good night tonight made up for half of the negative WPA he posted in the Jays’ last loss.

The “trade Clement” idea is a natural response to people floating the idea of the Jays trading their RBI leader/starting SS for pitching help, as well as the lavish praise heaped on our cheap, 6-WAR player. If you want players like Skenes and believe Clement is this good, teams like the Pirates would be interested in such a prolific talent. Clement is certainly more valuable than Bichette if you're looking around for a pitcher, because the selling team has 3.5 years of a prized asset at bargain bin prices.

I'm old enough to remember when people were concerned with what jerking Barger around between 3B and RF would do to his confidence, and there's been a noticeable drop in his offense since Gimenez returned and he stopped playing 3B everyday.

It was great to see Vladdy right back in the lineup tonight. I can't recall ever seeing a batting order changed for the better without an injury, so it was a very nice surprise.

Team MVP Kirky is on some kinda roll right now. For all the complaining we've done about the Jays never taking a gamble on their own, it's looking like a fantastic contract extension right now.
greenfrog - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#462456) #
Tremendous team win.

Someone (Glevin?) mentioned Sonny Gray as a potential trade target. Looks like he’s lost a bit of velo this year, but he’s having another very good season. He could be a good veteran pickup for the Blue Jays.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#462457) #
Rays now down....14.
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#462458) #
Cash must be pitching at this point.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#462459) #
Cash must be pitching at this point.

It was Jose Caballero who finished up, and who's now played everything but catcher and first base this season.
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#462460) #
Jays have now a positive run differential and Boston's gone negative. Could be a turning point.
Magpie - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#462461) #
Mick Abel, tonight's starting pitcher for the Phillies, threw no pitches and faced no batters. He's still the starter of record. Strange but true. (Two hour rain delay - they decided to make it a bullpen game instead of getting him warm again.)

JohnL - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#462462) #
Re: Kirk & extension:

I only saw the end of the game, but watched through all the talking heads afterward. Caleb raved about Kirk. Said he'd originally disagreed with the extension, but takes it back now. Usual stuff about hitting (Campbell said he's "hitting like Ted Williams now"), framing, etc., but especially how much Kirk's "matured" behind the plate, supporting his pitchers.

Used an example from the 5th where Berrios didn't get a very close pitch. Video showed Kirk & ump in an extended disagreement about the pitch. "Supporting his pitcher" said Caleb, suggesting it could pay off in the stretch.

Also commented how Kirk is showing more emotion now. (Maybe the benefits of a nice secure contract...)
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#462463) #
Gray just blanked the Guardians. Instant karma.
scottt - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#462464) #
Doesn't he have to face 3 batters?
Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#462465) #
Clement actually causing Barger’s slump is a new and innovative angle. I’m at the point where I wish they would just DFA him so that we could move on.
John Northey - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#462466) #
Wow, Tampa has to hurt after that one - up 6-0, 92.7% win probability, just to lose 22-8. Ouch. 7 pitchers used, 7th a shortstop who threw 28 pitches and allowed 6 runs. I suspect some pitcher(s) will be sent down tonight so they have fresh arms for tomorrow.

Jays now 1 1/2 games behind Tampa for the top wild card slot, 3 behind the Yankees for the division lead. 3 1/2 ahead of the Guardians/Angels who are just out of the playoffs right now.

So half way there and 3 way tie for lead in HR's at 11 (Springer, Vlad, and Bo). The pace for 22 would be the lowest over a full season for the Jays since 2008 (Vernon Wells led with 20 HR), then 1982 when Willie Upshaw led with 21 HR, 1981 with John Mayberry at 17 (106 game season), 1979 with Mayberry at 21, 1978 Mayberry at 22, and 1977 with Ron Fairly at 19. 22+ hit in shortened seasons '94 and '95, but not in 2020 of course (Teoscar led with 16).

So yeah, the homers are low this year, but not unprecedented. No one on pace for 100 RBI, Vlad on pace for 100+ runs scored, Bassitt leads in wins at 7 (pace for 14), Hoffman on pace for 34 saves, no one on pace for 200K's though, but Berrios on pace for 200+ IP. Always fun to check 'on pace for' stuff. So no record breaking things this year for the Jays, but I'll be happy with a playoff appearance and very happy if they can win at least one round at long last.
92-93 - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#462467) #
That would be silly. He has tremendous trade value. Look at what the Nationals got 3.5 years of Juan Soto.

Both you and Barger will come out richer for the experience, Nigel.
92-93 - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#462468) #
It might be a good idea to switch Roden and Wagner, who homered last night for Buffalo. Wagner is a better fit for the MLB roster because he can play 1B, and Roden could use the ABs.
uglyone - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#462469) #

Clement as a Jay:

MLB: 784pa, 107wrc+, 4.6war/650
AAA: 320pa, 139wrc+

clearly he has massive trade value as a superstar that costs nothing, but how could you hope to get a better value then him in return?

guess we have to keep him.


Nigel - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#462470) #
I have zero intention of getting further down into the Looking Glass so I say, in all seriousness, thank you 92-93 for looking out for the best interests of Barger and myself. Peace out.
Glevin - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#462472) #
Clement would be a great trade piece if the Jays were out of it but Jays are competing and he's a really good player making very little money so why would they trade him?
92-93 - Friday, June 27 2025 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#462473) #
It’s true, uglyone. They’d have to get more than the Nationals got for Soto, another 6ish WAR player, because Soto had massive arb salaries. Clement will make what, 15MM total in his 3 arb years?

Perhaps they could get Alcantara and prospects for Clement and Green, which might still leave them some $ to acquire other talent at the deadline.
hypobole - Saturday, June 28 2025 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#462474) #
Ernie will not be traded because unlike Rafael Devers, he's more than willing to play 1st base. Also unlike Devers, no fans seem to want him playing 1st base.

Ernie was drafted 132th overall back in 2017, one year after the Jays drafted Josh Palacios 132nd. There have been really good players drafted in that spot. Ray Durham, Chone Figgins, James Paxton, but the best ever is a much loved ex-Jays player who is still with our organisation. Who?
Toronto at Boston, June 27-29 | 59 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.