A castle made of sand
A castle made of sand
The projections will like change substantially by the start of next season, but I just wanted to gather up the final Fangraphs Combined Rest-of-Season projections for our roster heading into the offseason.
the full projections are only available for guys on the active roster, so the guys not on the active roster i have ROS projections from whenever the last time i updated was.....might not be the very final projection for them but it should be pretty close.
an asterisk means that they are about to be free agents.
The pitching projections are a bit messier because the playing time projections get all weird, and also they don't really know how to handle guys that are both starters and relievers.......i think they key here is to just look at the ERA and FIP projections, and assume that they are projecting mostly on the role that they've been in for the most part, not for the role they might have. i.e. so even though Bassitt and Lauer are projected as relievers here, their actual stats projections are probably no different than if they were being slotted in as SP.
I've been stuck on Bargaining ever since, which is probably why those old epic tennis matches have been on my mind. But if you watched Rafael Nadal play stupendous, impossibly great tennis for 5 hours and 53 minutes at Australia in 2012 - and not win, to see Djokovic prevail in the end somehow - it actually changed your understanding of what sports can be. Seriously. It expanded it somehow. Because it was simply impossible to regard Rafael Nadal as a loser that day. It was almost immoral. All you could say was - well, the other guy won.
I'm sure this will pass. I'll think of the 1997 Cleveland Indians, and how they were three outs away from their first championship in 49 years. They didn't get those outs, and lost in extra innings. That will be depressing. So will the realization that Cleveland wouldn't make it back for another 19 years. And that they'd lose in extra innings. Again. That will also be depressing.
And then spring will come.
Hoffman gave up the most HR's for a reliever in the AL (2nd in MLB) and the Jays as a team gave up the 6th most home runs in MLB with only 5 bad teams ahead of them. It's actually remarkable that they even got this to point given their pitching staff, but losing because of giving up home runs was unfortunately on brand for this pitching staff. It's something they need to look into next season. Why do pitchers come to Toronto and suddenly start giving up HR's left and right?
Oh well, still not over this. Won't be for a while. Usually I'd be excited about the off-season moves but not now. I kind of wish the lockout that's going to happen next winter would have just happened now. If anyone could use a mental break from baseball, it's Jays fans.
If it's all pitchers, it's something on the other end of the battery.. I.e. catcher's calling patterns or pitching coach's preferences for certain pitches in certain counts. I already voiced my frustration earlier this year that if we get an 0-2 count, it seems like the modus operandi is ALWAYS to waste 2-3 pitches and then hope you can get a call on a borderline 3-2 pitch - running up pitch counts.. A lot of things went well for this team, but pitch calling seems like it's not ideal.
You can’t go halfway down the line on a secondary lead. Obviously, people who have been propagating this POV have never played baseball before. Had IKF got down the line as far as people wanted, he’d be picked off and then the same people would be wailing about how bad of a mistake that was.
- Bo Bichette - I suspect we'd all like him back, but how much will it cost? I suspect he is OK at 2B going forward (he seemed really good there during the WS despite the injury). A 7+ year deal (ages 28-35) will probably be needed at $30 mil per = $280 mil I'm guessing. MLB Trade Rumors has him as the #1 SS/2B option expecting something like Seimen's $175 mil deal.
- Shane Bieber - listed in the 2nd tier for starters by MLBTR, listed as a high end #3 arm. Bottom end tier 1 guys they listed at $25-$30 mil per for 5 years so I'd think Bieber would be similar.
- Chris Bassitt - listed as an 'effective late-career arm' at BR (same link as Bieber) he is expected to get a 1-2 year deal at $15 mil per.
- Max Scherzer (Same link) - expected to get a 1 year $10-$12 mil deal this time.
- Isiah Kiner-Falefa - listed at 3B at MLBTR is listed as 'multi position player' but no contract guess. I think it is safe to say well under $10 mil, which is below average for a player on the Jays roster now ($260+ mil expected payroll in '26) so very affordable if they want him.
- Seranthony Domínguez - "veteran setup guys" at MLBTR 'decent multi-year deal is possible' is the money quote suggesting someone will offer him $10 mil per for 3 I suspect.
- Ty France: gold glove notwithstanding there is nowhere for him here with Springer, Vlad, and Santander all (hopefully) healthy in 2026. No more than a part-timer now and a 1B/DH who can't hit isn't needed.
MLBTR also has their top trade candidates and where they might go. Jays factor in as 'place to go' in a few situations...
- Joe Ryan, RHP, Twins | projected $5.8MM salary; controlled through 2027 via arbitration - Jays on of many, many teams listed as interested.
- Steven Kwan, OF, Guardians | projected $8.8MM salary; controlled via arbitration through 2027 - an odd one, but Jays were after him in the summer. Best defensive LF in MLB so he fits the Jays MO. Solid 100 OPS+ bat who has reached the 120s twice and been in the 90's twice in his 4 year career.
Without looking, the 1991 All-Star game would be the top collection of talent. These game 7s, with both teams' stables of aces available, would have to be 2 - 3.
Surely there are many other evenings where the pitching talent was unusually exceptional.
Again, Petriello or whoever started this nonsense obviously never played an inning of baseball outside of oopsie ball in their life.
What I found interesting, however, were the stills from the release point of the ball home that showed IKF no closer to home than Varsho was to 1B.
I haven't seen a replay of that play showing a wide angle so I otherwise cannot comment on IKF's lead and break from 3B.
Four seamer, had IKF led off as far as people wanted, there would have been no Varsho ball in play at all, he would have been picked off easily after the first or second pitch. Varsho is a left handed hitter as well. Easy throw for the catcher. This is likely why Febles and IKF agreed before the at bat that he would have a regular to conservative secondary lead.
No offense, but this is nonsense. Nobody is saying that he needed to be halfway down the line. If you look at the screenshot of the play, the 3B was playing farther off the base than IKF was. He needed to be at least as far off the base as the 3B was playing (there is zero reason for him to be closer to the base than the defender that is supposed to be protecting it); and this would have been enough for him to easily score. Furthermore, the likelihood of the Dodgers throwing to 3B to attempt to pick him off is extremely low. You think they were going to risk losing the game on a throw to 3B which easily could be botched? No chance. And it gets even worse once you look at the fact the Varsho basically only pulls flyballs or pulls groundballs - he has one of the most extreme batted ball profiles in baseball. There was zero realistic need to fear him lining into a double play or hitting the ball towards third base.
Everything about that play was a choke-job. From IKF's positioning, to his horrible slide attempt at the end. And even with all of that it ended up being so close it needed to go to replay. He lost the game there. And yes, Varsho should have hit it into the air...but he ultimately made enough contact to score the runner had the runner not choked.
Off season moves are starting eg Bassitt. No word yet on Bieber's option.
Lukes and Clement are 31/29 years old. They both provided value to the team this year. Beside good D I believe their PAs were good quality in that maybe (not sure) they made the pitcher throw a lot of pitches. This helps drive the starter out of the game.
This off season I will concentrate on all additions. Even the non splashy ones. M Straw did ok. I accurately predicted that Yimi Garcia would sign but did not post this. All the other moves were surprises to me.
Starting with the Vladdy signing and continuing on with the zero tolerance for nonperforming players (even with contracts) and through to a big trade deadline and then a super aggressive prospect promotion.... for the first time since the early 90s the team finally actually walked the walk of a big market team prioritizing winning above all.
....and it paid off with getting as close to winning it all as is possible without winning.
and all signs now are that this will the the status quo going forward, and we clearly have the talent base to contend.
Things are so insanely better than they looked in january that i can't help but be stoked, and i can't be sad about the loss even if I try.
Now we have a 'model franchise' that looks like one every player should want to join. Vlad signed for 14 years, we have a super-hotshot kid for the rotation in Trey Yesavage. Addison Barger proved he is an everyday player (be it RF or 3B), Clement showed 2024 wasn't a fluke. Davis Schneider showed projections that had him as a 120 wRC+ player weren't wrong. There were bad things (Anthony Santander sucked when healthy, Leo Jiménez I have trouble imagining as a prospect, Orevis Martinez & Alek Manoah both were released) but so many positives it is impossible to list them all from memory. We'll see if Khal Stephen, Kendry Rojas, Alan Roden, Will Wagner, or Juaron Watts-Brown will make the Jays feel bad about the mid-season trades but I'd happily give up a future star for the ride we got this year.
On to free agency, trades, and debating if Carlos Delgado should go to the HOF - the HOF 'modern era' voting list came out with 8 names - Clemens, Bonds, Delgado, Mattingly, Murphy, Kent, Sheffield, and Fernando Valenzuela. I see the PED crew as having no chance (Clemens-Bonds-Sheffield), with the rest depending on who is part of the final voters. If there are ex-Jays there then Delgado has a shot, ex-Dodgers Fernando. Old school guys will be looking hard at Mattingly & Murphy - both viewed as hard nosed 'played the right way' guys. Kent is a hard one - he played hard/old school but also was a jerk from reports and was part of the PED filled Bonds SF teams. We'll see on Decemeber 7th I guess.
This this this this this. So this.
For offseason I think it's a priority for the FO to resign Bo, Bieber and Bassitt. I would pay Bo 25 - 30 million/year. I expect this FO to move very fast and sign one of Bieber or Bassitt in the next week. Bo will take his time and that's why he's going to cost 300 million because he's going to get offers from Boston, NYY, NYM? and maybe the LAD.
Jays have Tiedemann coming and then next year they have Gausman and possibly Berrios leaving. Yeah maybe Berrios doesn't opt out but maybe he does. I can see this team trading someone like Tiedemann after signing free agent pitchers to go get someone like Kwan.
First Order Priorities:
Re-sign Bo Bichette
Re-sign Daulton Varsho
Re-sign Shane Bieber
Saturday night was just so crushing and wild that I need a bit of a break. I’ll just say that any player “taking responsibility” for the loss is noble but crazy. The Baseball Gods just picked a winner in the bottom of the 8th and so be it. You just have to live with that.
And the franchise is healthier now than it has been in a long time. The ownership and front office have gone all-in on the big market model and it seems to be working. The Jays were close to becoming figures of mockery in MLB because they were always trying to sign the biggest free agents and were always failing ("Ohtani is on a plane to Toronto!"). But no one is laughing now - Toronto will now be a serious option for anyone looking to further their career with a competitive team.
I see the 2025 Jays as being similar to the 1985 Jays in a lot of ways, and the next few years could wind up the same as the late 1980s: a team consistently contending but not necessarily getting as far as we hoped. Whether they ever get to the World Series again depends on luck - the postseason is a giant crapshoot.
Stanifer too. Both guys also might end up potentially dominant relievers for health/stuff reasons. On offense, Jays don't really have much to do. Re-sign Bo to play 2B, get Santander back and the bench/rotation is Lukes, Schneider, Straw, and Heinemen. Starting pitching is the big need area. Gausman, Yesavage, Berrios Lauer, Francis is top-5 now. Jays need one 1/2 sort of guy and maybe another backend guy. (if they want to spend and get 2 top-3 guys, I'd be very happy) Bullpen will have Hoffman, Garcia, Varland, Sandlin, Fluharty, etc... They can and should add but don't need much. I think someone like Gregory Soto makes a lot of sense as a hard throwing lefty who isn't Little.
Biggest questions after Bo are extensions. Varsho, Gausman, and Springer all free agents after 2026. Gausman will be 36 after deal expires but is still very good pitcher and pitchers can be effective as they get older. Would he go for a 2-year extension? Springer would be 37 and a DH so not sure I'd look to extend more than one year if at all even if he was fantastic this year. Varsho is key. Jays don't have any CF prospects coming through but it's likely Varsho at age 30 will want like a 5-year deal. Long history of steep decline of OF D after 30 but it isn't inevitable. Hope they can get something done.
One general area I'd like the Jays to improve is speed although hard to see with this same cast. The team was 28th in SB in an era where it's really easy to run. Soto led the NL! Josh Naylor was incredible with like 3rd percentile footspeed. If Gimenez is healthy, I think he runs a lot more and Clement and Varsho could also run a fair bit more (Varsho basically was never on 1B this year).
But I agree the position player roster is pretty much set as soon as they re-sign Bichette.
On the pitching side i hope they target the best possible SP and RP they can find, whether that's FA or trade. But not a whole lot more than that.
anyways, pretty damn funny that the only gold glove winner on by far the best defensive team in baseball is.....
....Ty France.
Not sure who I'd most like as a starter. I have Bieber like Ranger Suarez. Doesn't throw hard, gets good results. Michael King maybe in this group as well. Gallen a little behind those but if Jays think fixable or bad season was flukey, in same range. I like Cease the most because of the swing and miss I think. Valdez would be second but I think he has personality issues which doesn't fit Jays team at all. Anyway, it's definitely a year Jays can add to top of rotation via free agency.
Someone mentioned during the WS (on Fox, IIRC) that the Jays wanted to try Varland as a starter? Heck, why not see if we can get good Hoffman for 5-6 innings with 4 days rest? I mean, he wanted to be a starter initially. If it's easier to sign some good relievers, maybe Hoffman is better as a 4th/5th starter?
This season changed all that. Vlad is a Jay for life, they win the division and go to Game 7 of the World Series, unite an entire country. The trajectory of the franchise for the next decade+ has completely changed.
Completely ridiculous.
Bichette was running poorly before that last injury.
He might be OK at second base, but where does that leave Barger and Clement?
Barger might not be a platoon player after all.
It seems to me that the Jays relievers too often repeat the same pitch 2 or 3 times instead of mixing things up.
It's the same pitch in the same location over and over except half of them are off the plate.
So either they hang one or the hitter go get it outside the zone.
However, it's not really what happened.
The Smith homer was a bad slider on the heart of the plate.
The Rojas homer was a slider on the bottom of the zone which was following a slider on the top of the zone which should have been strike 3.
Walking the 9th hitter in front of Othani wasn't an option so that third ball call forced a pitch in the zone.
The Muncy homer was a splitter in the middle of the zone.
Can't really blame Yesavage.
The Bassitt walking of Betts was really bad.
Three of the balls were non competitive.
Bassitt, of course, calls his own pitches.
Muncy singled on two consecutive sinkers--trying to get a double play ground ball.
Against Teoscar, a sinker for a called strike, two more sinkers in the strike zone, both miscalled for ball 1 and 2.
A 4th sinker went foul and 5th one--right down the middle-produced an out at second.
Edman than hit a sac fly on a 4-seamer that followed 2 sinkers. All of those were high.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1984844060654191006
This link has the quotes from IKF (and also the video via the above link):
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25276826-blue-jays-isiah-kiner-falefa-explains-not-taking-bigger-lead-3rd-base-vs-dodgers
The runner on 1st (Kirk) also had a short lead. Barger on 2nd had a bigger lead (though he could see the middle infielders in front of him).
Varsho was at bat (Clement was on deck). The 3 outfielder positions are shown. There was 1 out, score tied 4-4, bottom of the 9th.
(To me it's hard to believe the coaches wanted the lead at 3rd to be that short.)
I think this is the year Rogers has to go big on payroll. With the lockout coming after 2026, and the uncertainty of what the CBA will even look like once 2027-beyond begins, I think you have to play for 2026 as much as you can.
Only thing I will add is that if the Jays bring back IKF, then I might have to reconsider my positive outlook. If there's one player I never want to see play a game in a Jays uniform again, it's him. Hopefully he catches on somewhere else...and hopefully the Jays are high on Leo Jimenez and just use him in the utility spot next season.
- C: set in stone with Kirk/Heineman with Brandon Valenzuela the #3 guy (prospect all D)
- 1B: Vlad, duh.
- 2B/3B: here is where things get complex. Clement/Barger could be the combo, but if Bo is resigned then he takes 2B and Clement 3B with Barger in RF, but if not, then it depends on if the Jays can find a good FA/trade who can play 3B or 2B or LF or RF and then shuffle accordingly
- SS: Gimenez - even if Bo resigns I can't see them putting Bo back there.
- LF/RF: see 2B/3B - this is a mess. But a good one. Barger in RF if an infielder is signed (Bo or someone else) if not then one corner is Santander and the other is Lukes/Schneider/Loperfido with RJ Schreck and Yohendrick Pinango fighting for a shot as well. Plus you can mix in that the Jays were after Steven Kwan mid-season (best defensive LF in baseball, has 2 years of 120 OPS+ and 2 years in the high 90's), plus it wouldn't be an offseason unless the Jays get rumored to be after the top free agent (Kyle Tucker this year most likely - 140 lifetime OPS+ with a 179 in 2024 but injuries in 24 and 25).
- CF: Varsho with Straw as the backup. I hope to hear the Jays signing Varsho to a 5 year deal soon (covering ages 29-33) for around $100 mil.
- DH: Springer (duh). 1 more year, then he can either retire and let his body recover or keep going with someone, but probably not here as the Jays have Santander and 1001 corner OF now. It'll be sad whenever he leaves as he has been fun.
- SP: Gausman/Berrios/Lauer/Yesavage are locks, just need 1 more - ideally an ace (Cease/Tatsuya Imai/Suárez/Valdez all could be aces, Bieber right there too along with Gallen/Giolito/King/Woodruff) but resigning Bassitt as a 5th/swing man isn't a bad idea either after seeing him be effective in relief this year.
- RP: Díaz (3 bWAR this year despite being a closer - that ain't easy)/Robert Suarez/Brad Keller are all solid closers which would open up other uses for Hoffman and just make the team more injury safe. Lots of veteran left handers out there too Beeks/Coulombe/Ferguson/Milner and many others. One is bound to be less heart attack inducing than Little.
His performance this year and in the post season and the timing have changed the calculus for this FO and ownership to retain him. 300 million.
Moving on to offseason stuff. I am pretty torn on Bo. I have been vocal that Bo's next contract is likely going to be an albatross for whoever signs him, because players with his profile don't age well (Michael Young, and a less elite Nomar comes to mind). I still stand by that assessment because he doesn't have any supplementary tools like good defence or baserunning that can help him maintain value when his hit tool declines. That said, youth is on his side, even if his production craters on the earlier side, it is still 6 years until he turns 33. However, big market big money teams shouldn't think about the dead money at the end of the contract. All these big money contracts will likely be albatrosses at the end and the contention window is now. If Bo is their best bet of creating a winning roster than they should just back up the brinks truck to his driveway now.
As for pitchers, it is hard to feel that great about any of the FA pitchers. For all the emphasis on vibes and team chemistry, Framber Valdez seems like a non-starter. Suarez throws softer than Bieber, so is it like another Hyun-Jin Ryu? Not necessarily a bad thing but if his command erodes becomes imminently hittable. Both those guys are going to cost more than Bieber I'd rather roll the dice on the devil we know. If we can get Cease that immediately becomes the best option. He has true Ace upside, has the velo we crave, and his peripherals have been steady despite uneven results. What jumps out at me is that he has underperform league average strand rate for 3 years in a row. Are there adjustments he can make pitching out of the stretch that can help him improve with runners on base? In the few years where he was in contention for best pitcher on the planet he was rocking a 74-82% strand rate so maybe it is just multiple years of bad luck?
If we were really to dream, can we get Skubal without giving up Yesavage?
I am feeling kind of mercenary about Bo. I think we let go Bo go. I think the wins over the Yanks and Seattle and the loss to LA all point to the fact that don't need Bo, but we do need more pitching.
Bo Bichette
Age 21-27: 3292pa, .339babip, .294avg, .175iso, 122wrc+
Michael Young
Age 21-27: 2516pa, .323babip, .287avg, .146iso, 93wrc+
Age 28-36: 6096pa, .337babip, .305avg, .139iso, 109wrc+
Nomar
Age 21-27: 2764pa, .331babip, .332avg, .238iso, 139wrc+
Age 28-35: 3353pa, .297babip, .297avg, .183iso, 113wrc+
Altuve
Age 21-27: 4311pa, .339babip, .316avg, .137iso, 124wrc+
Age 28-36: 4385pa, .312babip, .290avg, .189iso, 133wrc+
Dawson
Age 21-27: 3740pa, .305babip, .285avg, .195iso, 123wrc+
Age 28-37: 5917pa, .282babip, .280avg, .213iso, 120wrc+
Yount
Age 21-27: 4258pa, .305babip, .295avg, .166iso, 121wrc+
Age 28-37: 6330pa, .308babip, .307avg, .147iso, 117wrc+
Pedroia
Age 21-27: 3201pa, .313babip, .305avg, .158iso, 121wrc+
Age 29-35: 3476pa, .315babip, .294avg, .124iso, 110wrc+
Marte
Age 21-27: 2455pa, .359babip, .289avg, .158iso, 120wrc+
Age 28-36: 3852pa, .328babip, .282avg, .153iso, 112wrc+
Alomar
Age 21-27: 4453pa, .324babip, .302avg, .126iso, 119wrc+
Age 28-36: 5336pa, .322babip, .302avg, .160iso, 118wrc+
Cano
Age 21-27: 3732pa, .322babip, .309avg, .180iso, 118wrc+
Age 28-39: 5818pa, .312babip, .296avg, .192iso, 128wrc+
Bernie Williams
Age 21-27: 3059pa, .312babip, .285avg, .164iso, 118wrc+
Age 28-37: 5994pa, .322babip, .303avg, .189iso, 130wrc+
JD Martinez
Age 21-27: 2112pa, .335babip, .275avg, .195iso, 118wrc+
Age 28-36: 4753pa, .340babip, .287avg, .240iso, 135wrc+
Trea Turner
Age 21-27: 2383pa, .339babip, .296avg, .184iso, 119wrc+
Age 28-32: 3223pa, .339babip, .298avg, .180iso, 125wrc+
I don’t think this means Febles or the staff is the issue, either. I’m just a bit annoyed that IKF is getting threats over this.
The pen right now is Hoffman, Garcia, Varland, Fisher, Little, Nance, Fluharty and Yariel Rodriguez.
Plus Burr, Bruhl, Sandlin and shultz competing for spots. T.J. Brock?
The rotation is Gausman, Yesavage, Berrios, Lauer and Francis.
Plus Bloss, Macko, Estrada, Lucas, Pina and Bastardo competing for spots.
Almost nobody can score from third on a ball hit to an infielder.
There were at least 2 double plays on hard liners in this series.
That's what was on everybody's mind.
It's like the Pages play. It's infuriating because he bowled the other outfielder and still made the play.
It's not a spectacular play if only one guy goes after the ball like they should.
It's like the ball wedged on the outfield in game 6 with the outfielders hopping around like little kids.
Bring back Bo, absolutely. Like Vlad he’s more valuable to the Jays than to any other team.
Bring back Bassitt if it’s with the understanding that he may be used as a swing man. But no way is he sufficient as the only starting pitching acquisition. My guy will be 37, he may or may not be above average in any role.
That was my denial era. Have been more somber in reflection since.
I have no doubt at all that the Jays will be very much chasing the best starter they can get. Expect them to be talking with Detroit right now about Skubal (if available as rumored the Jays would be foolish not to be asking about him), with a team of employees preparing packages for all the top free agent pitchers as well. I'm certain the Jays have talked with everyone internally about best options and have planned out who they want most, down to #10 or so among starters.
Also, I think the Jays need to get a closer this winter. Hoffman was protected a bit in October as the Jays wins in the post season were usually laughers, so he didn't have too many nail biters, but aside from Game 7 of the ALCS and Game 3 of the World Series where neither team could hit, the only other real high leverage playoff moment for him resulted in the same type of result that he got in the regular season way too often, which was a ball reaching the seats. I don't know if they should be going for Edwin Diaz or Robert Suarez, but a closer is absolutely a need so Hoffman can slide back into a non-closer role.
Yup. And he hadn't given up a home run in almost two months (one on September 10, none in October), so I guess he was due.
Of course, I also thought Varsho was due for a big hit at some point.
Anyway, I'm done with Bargaining. It did what I needed. I don't get Depressed, so I'm on to the Next Thing!
Uh, Leafs?
Francis is a candidate for #5. I expect the Jays to add 1 more SP. Someone like Scherzer has too important of a reputation to not be in the rotation if healthy because we can't embarrass him. Bassitt too most likely.
Minor injuries will knock out a few starts for the regular SPs which gives Francis an opportunity. I think Lauer and Lucas got opportunities with Lauer earning the spot permanently. A season ending injury to a regular SP makes a hole that causes us to possibly not make the playoffs if our replacement is not good enough. Scherzer only made 17 starts. Francis 14 starts.
A solid #2 like Bieber is needed due to SP shortages which is inevitable. So I like Francis as our 6th. Don't know about #7 & 8.
I'd keep the OF overstuffed, and also keep Barger in the mix at 3B, but I'd look for a faster alternative for IKF.
If Bieber doesn't resign, there are other options. If Bo doesn't, that's where things need to get creative, where you could 'replace' him at 2B, 3B, or LF/RF, depending on the best option.
It is so much better to wake up the morning after the disappointment and actually have expectations for this team.
Second question is "will Rogers pony up for Bo and does Bo have a price that needs to be reached where he will sign or does Bo intend to wait until Christmas and after the Winter Meetings turn draw out the negotiations?"
Both of those questions will impact how the FO moves in my opinion.
Bieber and Bassitt should be quick moves as I don't think either wants to draw things out.
Also is Berrios still part of the team? I heard he wasn't at the World Series
The ones you get over the winter are a total gamble
I don't think Scherzer has another year left.
Bieber would be fine.
A balanced lineup with 4 right bats, 4 left bats and a switch hitter wouldn't be the worse thing.
Vlad, Springer, Kirk, Clement, Gimenez, Varsho, Lukes, and Santander.
That leaves room for a left bat at second base.
I found this loss to be profoundly devastating, to the point where it has seriously damaged my baseball fandom. I am someone who lived for baseball in the summer, and it consumed most of my free time. I listen to 6 different podcasts, watched or listened to every game, read all the content I could find, etc.
When the final out was made, I was overcome with a feeling that I had wasted my time. I still feel that way. Devoting as much time and energy as I do to something so cruel, and random, just feels arbitrary and pointless. I’m happy to read that others can focus on the positives; I cannot. Those moments leading to this result I have never understood the emotional detachment some have here. I think now I get it. Im just not sure I can be a fan in that way, and I also don’t fan to be the kind of fan I was.
Thank you to all the wonderful contributors who have made this such a wonderful place to talk about the game, and learn. I need a long, long break.
This year was rejuvenating.
This year felt a lot more balanced in terms of my enjoyment and of course from September on I spent a lot more time. Now I am rejuvenated also and I re-purchased seats for 2026 and I plan to continue the 60%-70% viewership thing with increased podcast listening since I can have that on in the background and on the move.
Only time I felt like I wasted time this year was 1) west coast losses and 2) the 18 inning game loss
*I downloaded VPN and watched the LCS games from 2am - 6am local time when I was in Italy this fall. I definitely invest time in this team.
So now what? We have an ownership that has shown they are willing to spend (as they learned when this team does well Rogers pockets a lot of money). A team with 2 or 3 needs - a starting pitcher, a reliever, and a slugger who can play one of 2B/3B/LF/RF (ideally 2B or 3B). We have kids ready in the OF (Schreck, Pinango), kids for starting pitching (MLB experience: Macko, Estrada, Bloss; AAA: Tiedemann; AA: Stanifer, Arias, Perez and more). There is potential here. But we also need to keep 1993 in mind - Jays won it all, had 'WOW' prospects at the edge and blew it even though they drafted a HOFer shortly afterwards. And like 1992/93 we have an ugly strike/lockout looming for 2027. So enjoy the good stuff, look forward to a bright 2026 and hope that by some miracle the league and players don't go over a cliff and screw us all in '27.
My prediction for the Jays the next 5 years or so is 85-89 wins which makes us competitive until close to the end of the season. That is success because it generates good revenue which means a good payroll. The 85-89 prediction probably sounds a bit negative but I stand by that.
I expect NYY to challenge most years, Boston has a good farm and money so they will be good and the Jays should also be good. I would like/hope TB to be under 500 like they have been the last 2 years. The rest of the AL will fall into place mainly due to payroll restrictions.
but it says bad things about his character and it's going to be hard for him to win back the confidence of his teammates. it would be good for all concerneed if we could move him, even if it means eating salary.
are there any massive-contract SP who are way oveerpaid but still actually good that we might want to take on if it means unloading Berrios' deal?
There's Sonny Gray at 40 million but he only has 1 year left.
There's Eduardo Rodriguez with 57 million over 3 years...
There's Joe Musgrove who has 40 million remaining and 2 years and is coming back from arm injury next season....
If it was me I would trade More creative ideas... 57 million left to pay Josh Hader for 3 years. No way HOU is looking to clear him but if you can make a solid offer for him and include Berrios somehow in that deal it would be a big win.
I also like Luis Severino in Oakland with 42 million left on 2 years. I found this quote from MLBtraderumors.com where Luis Severino is listed in their "Top 40 trade candidates" for this off-season: "The A’s might have to pay some of Severino’s contract down or take back another underwater contract to make a swap work out, but Severino’s strong finish and open distaste for pitching in Sacramento both seem like they’ll prompt GM David Forst to revisit the idea of trading him." I looked him up because I remember he was trash talked by the commentators when he pitched against the Jays but he was absolutely filthy and Buck kept saying he wanted to be traded off the As.
Hard to find matches for 'problem vs problem' contracts. Teams have been a lot smarter it seems, and the bad ones tend to be super-bad (ie: 10 year deals with years to go and guy is hurt - see Washington and Strasburg for an extreme example - still being paid $35 mil by Washington in '26 but just 8 games since they won it all in 2019, 0 since 2022).
My bet right now is chasing Bo & Bieber, then if one or both don't sign adjusting to other free agents with a strong eye on the trade market. Trade market for relief help (one of our many OF'ers should be able to get a half decent middle reliever here). Guaranteed they are looking for another Gimenez/Straw type deal where a club wants to clear out a guy they feel is underperforming but has a few years of control left (Severino is a good example).
Imagine getting him without having to give up Barger, that would be crazy if they could resign Bo, keep Barger and trade for Ramirez with someone like Tiedemann or Parker as the center piece.
1) Kyle Tucker - 11 years / $360 million
2) Bo Bichette - 8 / 240
3) Framber Valdez - 7 / 220
4) Alex Bregman - 6 / 180
5) Pete Alonso - 7 / 175
6) Dylan Cease - 5 / 160
7) Shane Bieber - 5 / 150
8) Cody Bellinger - 6 / 175
9) Gleyber Torres - 7 / 160
10) Kyle Schwarber - 3 / 110
11) Edwin Diaz - 6 / 125
12) Munetaka Murakami - 7 / 140
13) Trent Grisham - 5 / 130
14) Trevor Story - 4 / 110
15) Michael King - 4 / 110
16) Eugenio Suarez - 3 / 75
17) Kazuma Okamoto - 5 / 85
18) Josh Naylor - 6 / 120
19) Ranger Suarez - 3 / 75
20) Devin Williams - 4 / 75
21) Brandon Woodruff - 1 / 27.5
22) Zac Gallen - 2 / 45
23) Jack Flaherty - 3 / 72
24) Ryan Helsley - 4 / 70
25) Lucas Giolito - 3 / 65
Sign me up for Bichette, Schwarber or Naylor (one year not ideal while Springer is here but they can figure it out).
I really like Bieber and think he still has lots of upside but I may prefer Michael King at a lower price.
When the final out was made, I was overcome with a feeling that I had wasted my time. I still feel that way. Devoting as much time and energy as I do to something so cruel, and random, just feels arbitrary and pointless. I’m happy to read that others can focus on the positives;
A lot of your thoughts certainly mirror my own.
I watched most of the regular season games this year. And most of the playoffs.
After watching the crushing Gm 7 defeat, I wasn't really angry or saddened. Just mostly numb & disappointed.
The rational part of me started thinking that losing in extra innings in Gm 7 of the World Series is a very off-putting narrative for future fandom.
If the Jays had won, a narrative could be formed that one can get excited about winning the championship and trying to defend it next year.
If the Jays had lost earlier in the playoffs to the Yankees or the Mariners, or even got absolutely curbstomped in the Fall Classic by the Dodgers, one could create a narrative that the Jays had a partially successful season, had made big gains, but still had a lot of room to build & improve.
But losing by a run in Gm 7 seems like a runner-up pinnacle with very little to dream on. The team came just a hair short. It's very unlikely that the lightning in the bottle of 2025 can ever be recreated.
After getting 99% of the way there, then failing spectacularly, what's the point of doing it all over again?
My two cents here if it helps is that this team can get back to the World Series with the revamped culture, budget and core that they have demonstrated now exists. The point of doing it over again is to change the outcome next time. I don't think they failed spectacularly. They're good enough to get back and can get better to win it. The LA freaking Dodgers had to use their top pitcher to win 3 games out of 4 in order to win the World Series against this team.
I think it's going to be exciting to see the Blue Jays defend their new title as AL champion and then augment the team to go to the World Series.
Naylor doesn't really make sense as he's a below average 1B/OF defensively and we don't really have room for that not just with Vlad + Springer, but also Santander.
Bregman is a good fit, but 6 years is about 3 years too long. I'd rather do Bo 8/240 than Bregman 6/180. Note Bo in 8 years is younger than Bregman in 6. Also note elsewhere are estimating 8/212 for Bo, which I think is more fair of a contract than 240.
feels really good.
Maybe he believes in himself and if he has a big year in 2026, full year post TJ, then he can get an even bigger contract this time next year.
Or he has enough money and just enjoyed being on the Jays (unlikely).
I think this is it.
Although! He could have perhaps gotten more $ on a one year deal in a more pitcher friendly environment. So, some positive vibes at play here.
Btw, Tim Britton of The Athletic just posted an article listing his projected free contracts for this offseason. His projection for Bieber? 3 years, $63 million. So if this news is correct, the Blue Jays came in way below the general perception of his likely market value.
Yes I could see this being a precursor to an extension as well. That makes more sense than a mere $16m option. I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
Seems low.
Would have to be a no brainer for the brain trust.
If they can bring back Bichette, and with Bassitt as a swing man, the Jays are well on their way to making it to the playoffs again.
As others alluded to, Berrios may be the odd man out, especially if they can sign another starter.
I think Bieber has an agreed extension or he has a commitment from management that some other players are returning like Bo, Bassitt or even Max Scherzer.
Last year he only considered playing/signing with two teams - Cleveland and Boston.
Gausman-Bieber-Yesavage (locks, all potential #1's) Berrios-Lauer with Varland being stretched out to see if he can be one too. Plus kids - Bloss, Tiedemann, Stanifer, and others in the wings. Not to mention Estrada, Macko, and Lucas who all are possible starters too.
At this point the Jays have to be looking at trading Berrios to free up space and then go after another top notch starter if they can. As the saying goes, you can never have too much pitching. Lauer & Varland can both flip flop pen/starting as needed, kids can stay in the minors until fully set.
Options post-2025: 3: Yesavage, Fisher, Sandlin, plus anyone who has yet to be on a 40 man roster; 2: Fluharty, Estrada, Schultz, Pina; 1: Little, Varland, Bloss, Macko, Francis, Lucas; No options: Bastardo, Tate, Bruihl, Lauer, Nance, Rodriguez
A few tough choices coming up there - the no option guys have a few issues. If the Red Sox make a deal then Bastardo could be sent down (listed as no options due to being a rule 5 pick), Tate will certainly be released, as I suspect will Bruihl. But Nance you'd like to keep around but if he cannot be yo-yo'ed between here and Buffalo he might be lost anyways. Lauer & Yariel are locks I'd think. Bloss, Macko, Francis, and Lucas are all needing to prove they belong this year while being on the shuttle between AAA/Majors.
The pen is pretty full, but many could be dumped easily I figure: Hoffman-Garcia-Varland-Fisher-Little-Nance-Fluharty-Rodriguez is a nice 8 but could be better. Lord knows if Garcia is ready, if Varland goes to the rotation then Lauer goes back to the pen and a better setup is needed (or closer with Hoffman moved to setup). Another ace for the rotation and suddenly the rotation becomes Dodger level - Gausman-Bieber-Yesavage-FA-Berrios/Lauer/Varland. And damn if that wouldn't be nice. A kid might earn a slot mid-season giving us a problem like 2025 had with 6 solid starters. A damn fine problem to have.
For me what will be interesting is if the Jays can make upgrades even if mostly set. That is, flipping guys like Berrios or Santander who are fine but taking roster space and instead going for guys who are better than fine like Cease and Tucker. I doubt it but would be cool if possible.
Woodruff's average fastball was down 3-4 MPH from where he was. Coming off surgery, maybe it comes back but there's definitely risk there. Imanaga's stuff was way down and was very hittable and looks like a starter for a non-contender to me.
If Berrios can be traded (or by some miracle Santander) then more salary space freed up and a top notch starter from Woodruff to King to Cease could be added.
Ah, the offseason when all things are possible, especially after signing a top notch starter for just $12 mil.
From its vantage point (left-field corner) the lead actually looks more reasonable. (Thanks soupman.)
There's another comment there that it's actually not that unusual to get so close (though I haven't fact-checked):
"It happens. Rangers were one out away from winning the World Series twice in one game.
Cleveland had a chance to put away the Cubs 3 times and failed."
P.S. There's a Whitey Herzog quote I remember from 38 or 40 years ago that has stuck with me, something like 'if you lose Game 7 of the World Series, it means you had a heck of a year'.
It seems like they really are having lots of fun playing for us
They pushed Bieber to game 4 to make sure he had a great start. This gave him a great platform to opt out.
The pen needs 3-4 guys. I don't advocate for big FA market signings necessarily as most top relievers come from the scrap heap (milb free agency, waivers, small moves). But Suarez might be a good fit. Bassitt back as a swing guy would be huge.
One other big need is to get faster/more athletic..
Too many slow base-to-base situations/runners late in 2025. Santander will only make it worse.
To trade Berrios, you'd probably have to get him down to $15M with the salary offset - a big if he's healthy which it sounds like he isn't and it's worse than they've let on... which is also why the Toronto media isnt talking about it.
However, Berrios will rebound. Maybe he's not a machine anymore, but he's a pretty good number #3 when healthy.
The Toronto media is kinda like the guys who wanted to break IKF's legs.
If Gausman, Bieberr and Yesavage are good enough to start World Series game, they're good enough for anything.
I think the pen is fine. They just need to pick up some guys on minor league contract as depth pieces. Now, the Dodgers need 5-6 guys.
Bieber not opting out was not much of a surprise to me. I wanted to post that but did not mainly because speculating very late in the season while trying to win 1st overall was not right IMO. It was SSS so I felt he was not going to get the big long term contract. A good 2026 will get him a better deal. Good means 180IP, 200IP is better and 160IP or less is not that good. I expect prices in general to increase year by year. So waiting is good. He could of opted out and signed for $19mil/yr which is a comfortable price. Getting $22-25/mil/yr was probably not going to happen now but could happen later.
Gausman and Bassitt use it. Hoffman uses it. Francis had a lot of success with it last year and now Yesavage.
It seems to me that they could use someone who throws a plus change up.
That should the "different look" to go after.
A pitch that looks like the fastball all the way in.
Yariel Rodriguez has to focus on being a late inning guy now and narrow it down to 3 pitches.
Varland and Lauer can be stretched and compete for the 5th spot.
I expect them to add Valenzuela as the 3rd catcher.
It's time to trade Leo Jimenez. They can use Kasevich if they need a SS.
It's funny that there's not enough room for all the folks who really want back and are not just paying lip service.
I do think the Jays have a pressing need and that's to signa proven closer like Eugenio Suarez or Edwin Diaz. If you're a serious contender, you can't have someone as homer-prone as Hoffman closing out games.
and i'd also prefer not to turn varland into a starter.
The more i look at the numbers the more i just want us to pay up for Cease. He's got the consistent heavy workload, the velo, and the K% to make me believ in his floor and his ceiling. His shallow arsenal is a bit of a worry but i think that's my #1 choice.
And Cease is the only SP on the FA market that I like (maybe Michael King at the right price).
I am not optimistic about Yesavage. My eyes and heart tell me he will be "found out" and become an average #3 SP which is still good. I think he and Tiedemann will both be mid rotation starters "after the dust settles," and league adjusts. They will have #2 upside. Marc I'd love to hear your thoughts on those two, their floor, ceiling and compare. I know you touched on Ricky a bit in the summer when I was asking.
Barger - Ugly and Marc do you guys see him as a legit top 4 bat in the line up or a trade assett?
Another former supernova prospect is Luis Patino who was dealing prior to more elbow issues. The Padres out righted him at the end of the year, but maybe there’s something there if he can avoid surgery again (he had just come back quickly from TJ before issues cropped up). Since the Jays have managed a lot of guys through this maybe they can offer rehab a d take a flier. He’s exactly the kind of high velo and upside arm they could use in the pen.
"The Blue Jays ran a wRC+ of 128 in the playoffs. That’s the 15th-highest mark in postseason history. It puts them in the 97th percentile."
"One thing makes all this even more impressive: the expanded postseason. It’s one thing to have a great series, but the Blue Jays kept this up for their entire postseason run, which consisted of a four-game series and two seven-game series. It’s a lot harder to keep up an outlier performance like that over 18 games and 750 plate appearances – the most ever."
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-weekly-mailbag-november-3-2025/
Clemens thinks 5/155 for Cease. Bichette 7/203. Suarez 5/130. Devin Williams 2/24 (I'd take that in a heartbeat), Helsley 2//24 (I'd take that risk too), Woodruff 2/34.
1. DH Springer 36
2. LF Lukes 31
3. 1B Guerrero 27
4. 2B Bichette 28
5. RF Barger 26
6. C Kirk 27
7. CF Varsho 29
8. 3B Clement 30
9. SS Gimenez 27
B. HT Santander 31
B. OF Straw 32
B. IF Schneider 27
B. C Heineman 35
X. HT Schreck 25 --- Pinango 24
X. OF Loperfido 27 - Clase 24
X. IF Jimenez 25 --- Kasvich 25
X. C Valenzuela 25 -
1. RH Gausman 35
2. RH Cease 30
3. RH Bieber 31
4. RH Yesavage 22
5. RH Berrios 32
1. RH Hoffman 33
2. RH Varland 28
3. LH Little 29
4. RH Fisher 25
5. LH Fluharty 24
6. RH Rodriguez 29
7. LH Lauer 31
8. RH Nance 35
X. LH Tiedemann 23
X. RH Bloss 25
X. RH Sandlin 29
X. RH Francis 30
X. RH Schultz 28
Bloss had his surgery mid May 2025 so 14 months to recover + rehab means about Mid August 2026. He could be a reliever in the ML.
Fernando Perez finished Vancouver dominantly. Then dominated NH. 6 starts with shutouts in 3 of his last 4. 6IP, 7IP and 5IP shutouts. If he gets to AAA within 2 months he could be in the ML by the end of the year. He has room to fill out. Just 22 years old in Feb 2026.
If that were to be the entirety of the offseason, I'd be happy. Nance is the only name listed that I'm not sure is a big leaguer, and he looked good this year.
Varland looks great as a 'relief ace', so unless the club knows something I don't, I'd be happy to see him back in that role.
I haven't been posting much lately, but I really enjoyed coming here and reading you all during that playoff run.
Honestly, you guys deserved a run like that. Best fans on the internet!
Cease, Gausman, Bieber, Yesavage, Lauer (Berrios - INJ?)
Suarez, Hoffman, Varland, Fluharty, Tiedemann, Bassitt, Fisher, Y. Rodriguez, (Y. Garcia INJ?)
Kirk, Guerrero Jr., Donovan, Barger, Gimenez, Springer, Santander, Varsho, Lukes
Heineman, Clement (playing most days), D. Schneider, Straw
40-man depth:
SP: Lucas, Francis, Bloss (INJ)
RP: Macko, Schultz, Estrada, Little
C: Valenzuela
IF: Kasevich
OF: Loperfido, V. Arias
Plus 3 open spots
Non-40-man AAA Depth
RP: R. Jennings
OF: RJ Schreck (and Y. Pinango although a milb FA if not added to 40-man)
Barnes and Lovelady were on the opening day roster!
I have no doubts that these guys will be highly motivated during the winter.
The big X-factor is that 2026 is a World Baseball Classic year.
Many guys will have an abbreviated spring training.
Maybe Santander can stick if he can be the back-up 1B as he did play 72 innings there in 2023 with 1 OOA according to Baseball Savant but still the bulk of his time would be in the OF.
Is it palatable to view his signing as unnecessary given the development of the team during 2025 and eat $25-$30 million of the remaining $70 million in order to free up $40-$45 million that can contribute to extending Varsho or signing Bo? Does any team take him at $40-$45 million over 4 years? Does it create bad vibes to sign a guy and dump him a year afterwards from the perspective of potential incoming free agents or future Jays free agents?
My first pass at solving this "problem" is to pay down $30 million of his salary and send him to the Rockies for Tyler Freeman. Freeman doesn't seem like a great fielder but is a right-handed bat and hits the ball hard though with few home runs. He still has an option left too and would likely cost little in terms of salary. Kind of a lottery ticket with some Cleveland history that the team seems to like. Perhaps they can coax a bit more power into his bat. A passing glance at his Baseball Savant page has him comparable to a right-handed Nathan Lukes. This doesn't look as bad if Bo is resigned as then there is some power from the right side of the plate.
Brendan Donovan is a bit intriguing but what would we have to give up to a rebuilding Cardinals team for him given that he's 2 years from free agency and will only cost them around $5.5 million (Fangraph's forecast). Nimmala? Tiedemann and Johnny King (because the Cards want young arms)? They certainly don't need OFs of the type the Jays have to offer (unless it's Barger).
Just thinking aloud.
Now, if Barger goes to 3B (Bo signs elsewhere, no other substitute found) then RF is opened up for Santander to go to and Lukes/Schneider platoon in LF.
The offense I'm not so worried about, a backup IF needed (hopefully better than IKF, but not critical - Jimenez out of options so has to make the team or be let go) but that is secondary.
Pitching is the issue - perfect world one more #1 level guy, Cease, Valdez, Suarez are all projected as 3+ fWAR pitchers for 2026. 2.5+ fWAR FA's are Woodruff, King, Kelly - the Jays really shouldn't be digging deeper than those guys unless it is a killer deal and/or their scouts love a guy and feel he is going to do better than projection systems think. Bassitt is at 2.1 btw, just under Imanaga and ahead of Eflin. Scherzer is at 1.4 (24 starts is the projection with a 4.42 ERA).
Relief help is more variable, as always. Edwin Díaz is #1 for projection at 1.3 fWAR, then LHP Jordan Montgomery at 0.9 followed by Ryan Helsley & Devin Williams. Steven Matz is actually the #2 projected LH reliever - having a good start to a second life as a reliever.
That's not so bad.
Semien got 7/175M but he hit 45 HR, runs well and plays good defense.
That was a need at the deadline, but that was only to platoon Lukes and Barger.
Still, these are all first class problems to have!
Maybe it’s partly due to losing to the Dodgers but I think targeting Imai to create that Japanese pipeline would be huge for the Jays. The Dodgers have a billion starters so they may not be looking to spend big there. The Jays would have a real shot if the Dodgers were not in the way, and there’s youth, upside, and a splitter (which the Jays love) in Imai’s favor. Curious to see if the Jays are in on him. They should probably target a controllable starter somewhere.
and I'm not sure if Steamer changes their projections between now and the start of the season.
For pitchers Tatsuya Imai is the best coming from Japan - ZIPS projects him at a 95 ERA+ entering his age 28 season, throws right. Certainly worth digging into I'd think.
So a few interesting options from Japan - 2 at 3B (shift Clement to 2B unless Bo signs up again, then Clement becomes a super-utility guy you mix in however you can) and a pitcher. This is where scouting becomes critical - can these guys adjust to the majors? Murakami has a massive range of potential - from 50 HR to a guy who K's so much he can't survive in the majors - but damn if his LH bat wouldn't be perfect for this team.
Jimi Garcia, Nick Sandlin, Bowden Francis and Angel Bastardo reinstated from IL.
Ryan Burr and Dillon Tate clear waivers and elect free agency.
Robinson Pina clears waivers and is assigned to AAA.
QO to...Kyle Tucker, OF, Cubs; Kyle Schwarber, OF/DH, Phillies; Bo Bichette, SS/2B, Blue Jays; Framber Valdez, LHP, Astros; Dylan Cease, RHP, Padres; Ranger Suarez, LHP, Phillies; Edwin Diaz, RHP, Mets; Zac Gallen, RHP, D-backs; Shota Imanaga, LHP, Cubs; Michael King, RHP, Padres; Trent Grisham, OF, Yankees; Gleyber Torres, 2B, Tigers; Brandon Woodruff, RHP, Brewers;
Guys who were expected to but didn't include: Lucas Giolito, Robert Suarez, Devin Williams, Luis Arraez. There are a few there the Jays might have an interest in (the 2 Suarez pitchers, Ranger a starter, Robert a reliever, plus the assorted other starting pitchers potentially - Valdez, Cease, Giolito, King, Imanaga, Gallen and the closer Diaz).
If they lose Bo they just get a compensation pick after the fourth round has been completed. The Jays might say 'screw it' too due to the high cost - as a competitive tax payor they'd lose their second- and fifth-highest selections, as well as $1 million from their international bonus pool for the upcoming signing period. If they sign multiple qualified free agents, they would forfeit their third- and sixth-highest picks as well. Basically if they sign one, they might as well sign 2 as the 3rd and 6th highest picks are minimal value vs the $1 mil international bonus pool and 2nd/5th picks that signing anyone will cost.
I'd expect the Jays to be more after the non-compensation guys due to the value draft picks and IFA's have. We will see I guess.
Of note: Pete Fairbanks was let go by the Rays (they had an $11 mil option on him). He'd be a nice guy to have in the pen imo. He was a 12+ k/9 guy for years, then the last 2 dropped below 9 k/9 but over 107 games 105 2/3 IP he was still very effective (3.15 ERA 50 saves vs 9 blown with just 18% of inherited runners scoring). He'd be a very solid setup/#2 closer to have with Hoffman as a mix/match. Plus no draft pick compensation.
DH Springer (36): 123wrc+, 2.7war/650
LF Lukes (31): 109wrc+, 2..3war/650
1B Guerrero (27): 153wrc+, 4.8war/650
2B Bichette (28): 120wrc+, 4.0war/650
RF Barger (26): 110wrc+, 2.9war/650
C Alejandro (27): 121wrc+, 5.9war/650
CF Varsho (29): 100wrc+, 2.2war/650
3B Clement (30): 99wrc+, 2.2war/650
SS Gimenez (27): 94wrc+, 2.6war/65
HT Santander (31): 106wrc+, 1.4war/650
OF Straw (32): 72wrc+, 0.4war/650
IF Schneider (27): 105wrc+, 2.3war/650
C Heineman (35): 81wrc+, 3.0war/650
UT Kennedy (27): 91wrc+, 0.0war/650
OF Schreck (25): 96wrc+, 0.0war/650
IF Jimenez (25): 95wrc+, 2.3war/650
C Valenzuela (25): 66wrc+, 0.0war/650
RH Bieber (31): 3.87era, 3.77fip
RH Yesavage (22): 3.86era, 3.90fip
RH Gausman (35): 4.05era, 3.95fip
RH Berrios (32): 4.52era, 4.53fip
LH Lauer (31): 4.56era, 4.72fip
LH Tiedemann (23): 4.23era, 4.35fip
RH Francis (30): 4.49era, 4.55fip
RH Varland (28): 3.44era, 3.48fip
RH Hoffman (33): 3.46era, 3.48fip
LH Little (29): 3.43era, 3.73fip
RH Garcia (35): 3.63era, 3.66fip
RH Nance (34): 3.83era, 3.79fip
LH Fluharty (24): 3.96era, 4.18fip
RH FIsher (25): 4.04era, 4.07fip
RH Rodriguez (29): 4.04era, 4.15fip
LH Bruihl (28): 3.96era, 4.18fip
RH Pina (27): 4.08era, 4.14fip
RH Schultz (28): 4.27era, 4.37fip
RH Sandlin (29): 4.28era, 4.43fip
#We'reSoFucked
"The great thing about Jeff is he’s not married to that (closer role) … I think he would be open to anything that makes us better.”
Hopefully this means they are targeting a closer this winter. I don't think I want to see Hoffman pitching in the 9th inning ever again after 2025.
- #1 Kyle Tucker: 11 years $400 mil - Jays listed as a potential suitor (along with Dodgers & Phillies) mostly due to the 3 teams all being willing to spend
- #2 Bo Bichette - every one of them (4) predict he'll resign here. 8 years $208 mil seems possible.
- #5 Alex Bregman: 6/$160M: expected to go back to Boston but Jays listed along with the Angels, Mariners, Mets, and Phillies as possibilities.
- #6 Framber Valdez, SP: five years, $150M: again, Jays listed as a possibility (sensing a theme)
- #8 Cody Bellinger, OF/1B: five years, $140M: yep, listed as a 'possibility'
- #10 Ranger Suarez: 5/$115 - one has the Jays signing him, 2 the Cubs, 1 the Giants.
- #13 Edwin Diaz, RP: four years, $82M: 1 has the Jays signing him, the other 3 have Dodgers/NYY/Giants - basically this will be a bidding war that will be decided by who he wants to be with.
- #16 Devin Williams, RP: four years, $68M: one has him going here, others have Giants, Mets, Dodgers. Could be a fit.
- #21 Robert Suarez, RP: three years, $48M: listed as a possibility
- #23 Jorge Polanco, 2B/3B: three years, $42M: listed as a possibility
- #24 Chris Bassitt, SP: two years, $38M: listed as 'may try to get him back' but sees others as more likely
- #25 Merrill Kelly, SP: two years, $36M: listed as may make a bid
- #37 Gleyber Torres, 2B: one year, $22.025M: if Bo doesn't resign might go after
- #38 Justin Verlander, SP: one year, $22M: listed as 'makes sense'
- #43 Seranthony Dominguez, RP: two years, $18M: one has the Jays keeping him, A's, Braves, Cubs also listed
- #44 Pete Fairbanks, RP: two years, $18M: one has the Jays, others are Marlins (twice), Cubs
- #45 Gregory Soto, RP: two years, $16M: two have the Jays, others are Mets & A's
- #48 Max Scherzer, SP: one year, $15M: one has the Jays, others are Guardians, Tigers, and Giants
- C: 2nd; 1B: 8th; 2B: 13th; 3B: 10th; SS: 8th; LF: 13th; CF: 4th; RF: 13th; DH: 4th;
- SP: 23rd; RP: 18th;
- Defense: #1
What killed the rotation was that only Gausman & Bassitt had 2 fWAR+ last year, and Berrios was the only other to crack 1, Lauer was 0.8. Francis dragged it down big time with his -0.8, but everyone else was -0.2 to 0.4 (ie: statistically the same as 0 pretty much).
No question the rotation and pen are where the Jays need to focus after signing Bo (or a replacement for him). There are lots of quality free agent relievers who don't have a QO dragging them down (Suarez, Fairbanks, Helsley, Williams, Matz, etc.) and the Jays just need to get 2 of them to make the pen much deeper. Heck, Bassitt could be one if he is willing to move to the pen. Rotation they need to find a #1 to go with Gausman-Yesavage-Bieber as Gausman is old, Yesavage young, and Bieber recovering - all with high risks associated. Just look at how fast Ryu ended, Manoah fell apart, and recovery from Tommy John isn't a straight line. Outside of the Japan pipeline (Tatsuya Imai) the best non-QO guy is probably Merrill Kelly. So this will probably be a trade situation for the Jays unless someone slips through the cracks and becomes cheap in spite of their QO (not betting on that).
And williams was terrible all yesr long no?
Bieber, Gausman, Yesavage, Berrios, Lauer, Tiedemann, Varland
The top 3 rate to be right up there with anyone, Berrios is a fine #3 in the #4 spot, and allowing Lauer/Tiedemann/Varland fight for the #5 is good.
This isn't to say I wouldn't love to try to land another #1 or something (you can never have too many starters), but just this is a good rotation already.
The pen needs help (but relievers are hard to figure out).
If we're not going to be able to get a true ace to top the rotation then i'd like to at least make up for that by having fewer question marks on the backend (and yeah all of Berrios, Lauer, Tiedemann, Varland are very large question marks). One question mark slot is fine but two is asking for trouble imo.
I have to assume that Garcia and Sandlin will bounce back next year.
I wouldn't drop a couple of draft picks on a reliever with a QO attached.
The price for Bieber was a second rounder.
By contrast, Ohtani has had as many surgeries already and is younger, yet not regarded as injury prone.
The rumours at the deadline were that Texas wanted to shed payroll, and if the Rangers are truly ready to rebuild, maybe DeGrom and Semien would be a good way to add without giving up too much.
And this is my regular reminder that the best bullpens are usually made up from minor signings, castoffs and less heralded milb players... look at how well LA's big ticket relievers did... and, well, Hoffman.
According to B-R, aside from his rookie season with Hou (IIRC), he had the highest FIP of his career last season. If he's worth $20M and everyone would be willing to pay that, I can't imagine Tampa wouldn't have picked up the option and traded him to get something back in return?
Not saying I know either way (he's done or Tampa was foolish).
The Athletic also profiled Tatsuya Imai (possibly a #3 SP in the majors with good but inconsistent stuff) and Kazuma Okamoto (power-hitting corner IF type, age 29 and more of a pure hitter than Murakami but with less power).
I feel good about the Jays right now and their ability to evaluate risk. If they did get him, they could mix in Clement at 3B for late innings or even to start vs LHP in 2026, then move Murakami to DH for 2027, splitting DH/1B with Vlad. Clement could be a super-utility guy who plays nearly everyday alternating all positions to give guys rest while improving defense everywhere but CF and maybe SS. The lineup would be killer. Springer (DH)-Murakami (3B)-Vlad (1B)-Bo (2B)-Barger (RF)-Kirk (C)-Varsho (CF)-Santander (LF)-Gimenez (SS) - only #9 would be a weak spot and if Santander starts hitting like he did pre-signing he could move up easily. If no Bo then shift everyone up a spot and put 2B as Clement in the 8 hole. The Yankees would be given a run for their money in power with this lineup and the Jays still would have killer defense, just shifting the weak spot from SS (Bo) to 3B - given how Bo looked in the playoffs on bad legs I think he might be a plus defender at 2B.
Santander makes a lot of outs on balls in play. Not the same thing at all.
- C: Kirk #2 - we ain't getting Cal Raleigh (#1)
- 1B: Vlad #1 - OK, can't do better
- 2B: Clement #24 - not actually listed, but took his WAR at 3B and put him at 2B. Bo's 3.6 at SS would make him #2 at 2B.
- 3B: Barger #17/Clement #23/Murakami (ZIPS has at 3.4 WAR which would be 5th best - Bregman at 3.6 is ranked higher and is a free agent as well)
- LF: Schneider #31/Lukes #32 combined (Platoon) would be #9, Kyle Schwarber (FA) slightly higher. Santander would be #38 but is at only 1 WAR (if healthy he'd be better).
- CF: Varsho #22 with negative defense (????) - this one makes zero sense and makes me question all rankings from Steamer this year.
- RF: Barger #15 - seems low to me, but the 110 wRC+ makes sense, a slightly negative defense makes sense too given his creative routes out there, which I expect to improve if he is left there instead of flip flopping 3B/RF.
- DH: Springer listed in RF for some bizarre reason, but is a DH now - he'd be ranked #5 if moved there directly. Only one ranked better who might be available is Kyle Schwarber (FA).
Gate revenues--when all is included--are probably around 75M from what I read.
It's not like they can spend beyond the Luxury tax without penalties.
You can't really add up guys who play different positions.
WAR is position dependent. You can't just take WAR at SS and move that 2B.
Ben Clemens of Fangraphs predicts 7/$203m for Bichette. Tim Britton of The Athletic's projects 8/$212m for him. It wouldn't surprise me to see some team make a higher bid than that, so that they can add a high-calibre bat to their lineup for at least the next few years.
I think if we offer him either of those contracts he's back for sure. it won't take a bidding war.
Clement's WAR at 3B would likely go up moving to 2B because 2B usually hit less than 3B (and Clement's defense might be worth more at 2B too) so his hitting line would be worth more. Similarly Bo's SS WAR would likely go down moving to 2B because a SS hits less than a 2B (however because Bo is theorized to be a less bad defender at 2B than SS maybe the defensive change would make up some/all of the difference).
In other words a player that has league average defense and is worth say 1.5 WAR based on their hitting at 1B, wouldn't be worth 1.5 WAR at SS even if they could play league average SS defense. A bat that is like a 1B at SS would be quite a bit more valuable. Conversely a 1.5 WAR SS who played average defense at SS would be worth less than that if you made them a 1B, because the bat wouldn't play as well.
The position independent nature is your team should be just as good if you have a 4 WAR SS and a 1 WAR 1B as if you have a 1 WAR SS and a 4 WAR 1B. Moreover, a 4 WAR SS would be a fair trade for a 4 WAR 1B.
- Resigning Bo (8 years $208 mil = $26 mil per year)
- Signing a top starter, say Framber Valdez (seems to have most rumors, plus is a LH which would be nice to add in) 5/$150 mil = $30 mil per
- Signing 2 relievers (LH & RH), ideally closer potential. Devin Williams 4/$68 = $17 per, Gregory Soto 2/$16 = $8 per.
- Bonus: Power LH bat for heart of order, Munetaka Murakami 8/$180 = $22.5 per
Basically, it comes down to choices. Do you add 2 relievers, a starter, Bo, and Murakami? Then the payroll goes up to very high levels. Luxury Tax hits at $244 mil, then goes up for each $20 mil added, maxing out at $304 mil. Safe to say the Jays want to avoid hitting the maximum even though they can afford it most likely given the high TV ratings that Rogers greatly benefits from and the packed stadium I'd expect for all of 2026 and any playoff revenue. Winning the AL added at least 2 bonus home dates in the playoffs which added greatly to the Jays profits in '25. I wouldn't be shocked if they cheap out on the relief help and add just guys making sub $5 mil who are recovering from either injuries or bad years, get a $15 mil starter, thus freeing up more cash. Might try to do deferred payments for Bo (good for him in taxes, perhaps to butter it up do a big bonus at start of each year instead of standard salary pay - better tax wise as I recall). Berrios, Santander, and Rodriguez all could help by being traded (tax hits of $18.7/$13.7/$6.4 respectively) but only Rodriguez would be an easy trade. The players I listed are premium ones, but any player signed will cost similar if we want higher end ones. Outside of a trade for a high end kid who is early in arbitration or pre-arbitration. But those would require giving up substantial assets in the minors, far beyond what I suspect the Jays are willing to give up.
The choices the Jays make will be interesting. At least Murakami won't require cap space like Susaki did last winter, thus avoiding the drama that added. Plus it'll be over in 45 days no matter what. I'd love to see Murakami here just because the idea of a second 80 power (Vlad was rated there) from the left side is such a beautiful thing to dream of, but I'm betting on Seattle or the usual Dodgers (that all Japanese players seem to migrate towards). Another power option is Eugenio Suarez - 3/$63 mil, but had 49 HR in majors, entering age 34 season - I see him as a guy who might linger awhile on the market due to age and high K rates (K's around 200 times a year - averaged 199.5 K per 162 G for 2021-2025) but no QO so tempting.
Yes, with Clement we don't need a 3B but the Jays want more offense and Suarez or Murakami would provide that in spades and open up Clement to be used everywhere as needed (train him a bit in the OF so he can be a near everyday player without a single position).
- Eugenio Suarez, 3B: three years, $63M ($21 per)
- Robert Suarez, RP: three years, $48M ($16 per)
- Ranger Suarez, SP: five years, $115M ($23 per)
I'm generally not a fan of defensively-challenged position players who strike out 27-30% of the time, but occasionally they can still be very valuable (Schwarber is one such player). So although there are some red flags with Murakami, I wouldn't automatically write him off. But it sounds as though he's more of a 1B/DH type than a legitimate third baseman.
That works for a guy like Varsho or Gimenez who provide defense value.
It's worth reading the whole thing. Clase started doing this in May 2023, so more than 5K for sure.
It must have felt like the World Series for Pages.
I agree reading the full text is worthwhile. I'm struggling to understand 'why' here, especially in Clase's case - he had ~$30million in salary lined up including $20million in club options for 27/28.
It took them 2 years to catch him, and initially it was Ortiz that they caught. It's the sports books that are nailing guys. What about instances where it's the bookies getting the action? It seems it will be a lot harder to catch guys who aren't screwing over the criminals.
It seems like, from my reading, that the wagers were getting larger and more bold over time.
So basically, he helped 2 buddies make around 4K by betting on pitch types or pitch speed in 23 and 24.
This year he took it to another level by giving his buddies up to 15K to bet on his behalf and asked for a cut of at least 12K.
The Jays don’t make money off the secondary market. Those are people selling the tickets they bought from the Jays re-selling them to the highest bidder. The $500 is also too high. By round my tickets in section 127 went 150-300-450. Regular season was about $100 per seat.
I could almost imagine people using neutral non-public information (like someone day-to-day is still injured and not going to play, or is recovered and is going to play). I could almost imagine pitch rigging that was neutral like deciding in advance what your first pitch would be (slider, fastball, changeup, etc.).
But even doing the above, risking your MLB contract/life seems crazy for anyone. And certainly going above that to specifically tank (even if only for a few pitches) by doing less than your best only due to the bet is criminal in both the mlb and legal sense.
Throwing a slider or a cutter on the first or 3rd pitch?
I don't see an impact.
Throwing a ball on purpose?
Wasn't LIttle doing that most of the time?
A single ball has very little impact if most of the other pitches are strikes.
Clase lead the league in saves in 22, 23 and 24.



