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How was that a base hit? The ball struck the shortstop in the wrist, because he misjudged the trajectory and jumped too soon. If this ballgame were being played in Seattle, that's an E-6 and Felix Hernandez still has a chance to make history. Anyway, lots to talk about tonight, including Dave Bush's quick hook, Brandon League's rebirth, and a near-comeback torpedoed by a fine Jeremy Reed catch. That's as good a game as you can ask for between two also-rans in late September.
Mariners 3, Blue Jays 2 | 28 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
R Billie - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#128538) #
Hey you have to be happy that they weren't no hit or shut out. So many groundball outs tonight.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#128539) #
You can tell I'm a little demoralized at the end of the year -- I was stunned by the two-run homer in the bottom of the ninth. I could barely believe it happened.

I giggled to myself early on when Shea bailed out of the way of that Felix Fastball -- it was like he said to himself "Hell, my OBP is over .350, I don't need this".
Keith Talent - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#128540) #
I am happy we didn't get no-hit.

It's all right if you're a contending team (remember: Nolan Ryan striking out Alomar who falls to his knee). But when you're out of the race, it's an insult. Like when David Wells tossed the perfect game against the Twins way back. It was "Yay! David Wells perfect game!" quickly to: "Yeah, but against the Twinkies".

We could do without the embarassment.

All the negatives of the season get overblown, in a bad year, when you're no hit.

Even the thin attendance becomes a figure in history. We dodged a bullet. Thank you, Koskie.

Question: Does Rios get a "don't run" sign when he's on first in the 9th inning? I would think so. I heard Gibby has a laissez-faire attitude with the bases, but I think in that situation you had to have a red light.
Flex - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#128541) #
If anyone can do a WWJP report, that would be much appreciated.
jsut - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#128542) #
So what exactly is the breakdown between games that they lost but brought the tying run to the plate, and games they lost and didn't?

Named For Hank - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#128543) #
J.P. says they'll break out the retro uniforms eventually.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#128544) #
J.P. believes that Batista is just slumping, "like a batter who goes 4-for-40".

He also says if they can upgrade the closer they will upgrade the closer, but they'd be happy to have Batista as the closer next year.

There's an incredibly loud fire alarm going off and disrupting the show.

J.P. thinks Hillenbrand is stronger defensively than Hinske at first (answer to a "who do you think is better" question).
Named For Hank - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#128545) #
Gotta run. Anyone else want to write up WWJP?
Tyler - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#128546) #
I don't think that there's any shame in being no-hit by a guy like Felix Hernandez. He's something special. The amount of ground balls to first he induced was something else. The Jays batters were doing well with him initially-Zaun had a fantastic at bat early in the game, but it seemed like Hernandez started to figure them out. A really enjoyable pitcher and enjoyable game to watch tonight.

I admit, I was hoping he'd do it from about the fifth on. Nice to hear some scattered boos when they posted it as a base hit. Really nice to see a nice ovation for Hernandez when he left the game. It was almost like being at a baseball game. Then Ryan Greer came back on, Ace started dancing and away it went.
Dave Till - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#128548) #
I was curious, so I counted the number of times the Jays came back to almost tie it, but lost by one run. There have been 12 of them this year:

Apr 8: Bos 6, Tor 5 (was 6-2)
Apr 17: Tex 6, Tor 5 (was 6-0)
Apr 21: NY 4, Tor 3 (was 4-0)
May 8: Chi 5, Tor 4 (was 5-0)
May 28: Min 4, Tor 3 (was 4-1; 2 runs in 9th)
May 30: Sea 4, Tor 3 (was 4-1)
Jun 27: TB 4, Tor 3 (was 4-0)
Jul 10: Tex 9, Tor 8 (3 runs in 9th)
July 16: TB 6, Tor 5 (was 6-3)
July 24: KC 6, Tor 5 (was 6-4; 1 run in 9th)
Sept 16: NY 11, Tor 10 (was 11-4)
Sept 21: Sea 3, Tor 2 (was 3-0; 2 runs in 9th)

The Jays are now 16-28 in one-run games (but, oddly enough, are 8-7 in extra inning games). According to ESPN, their expected won-loss record, given their runs scored and runs allowed, is 81-69.
Ron - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#128549) #

(When a fire alarm goes off, I thought people are suppose to exit? Wilner and JP kept on trucking along with the fire alarm going off in the background)

- "If Miguel was our closer next season, I wouldn't be that disappointed"
- Batista is not a starter. JP wasn't real happy with what he saw last season with Batista as a starter
- Thought the basehit in the 7th inning was an error
- On Batista not talking to the media: JP doesn't really mind it. It's his choice whether to talk or not.
- Won't spend big big money on a power bat. Wilner chimed in and said he read Konerko wants 4yrs/50 mil and mentioned it was like Delgado money. These type of players are hard to get. It will have to be aquired through trade.

Personal Comments:

- I sure hope he's blowing smoke with the power bat comments. From the sounds of things it seems like he's going after another hitter in the class of Hillenbrand/Koskie. He menntioned something about power bats take up a lot of payroll. Heck the main reason Mr. Rogers gave JP an increase is to provide him with the funds to shop at Armani instead of The Bay. If you give me a choice of having a type of player like Konerko vs. 2 Hillenbrand type hitters, I'll type Konerko.

- With the exception of one caller (who ranted on jerseys) the people were very positive. Lots of people were kissing his ass and saying how great of a GM he is. I'm starting to wonder if JP is paying the people that call in:)

Named For Hank - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#128550) #
The jersey caller was the best, complaining that J.P. lets Gibby wear "army fatigues" in the dugout.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#128551) #
Gibbons needs to get rid of his sideburns, too.
Keith Talent - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#128552) #
Yeah, but that jersey caller didn't really know what he was talking about. "Traditionalists" never do. There's no such thing as a "golden age" and "traditionalists" are full of sentimental, fictional crap.

We think of grey road uniforms as traditional because the only evidence we have of them are black-and-white photos. Some research done, talking to players of the era, suggest road uniforms were actually more like the San Diego Padres tan that they wear on the road.

The doo-dads at Rogers Centre is the hand-operated scoreboard at Fenway 80 years later. Imagine 2 old farts in Boston in 1930: "Ya hear they put on of 'em TELEGRAPH machines in the outfield so we know when someone in some god forsaken city scores a run! Jeez! Would people just relax and watch a baseball game!"

A lot of the retro-style wall decorations you see in retro parks are actually retro advertisements. So, it is actually Rogers Centre which is being truer to form than these wannabe stadiums.

On managers dress: Connie Mack wore a suit.

Still: Ryan Greer has got to go. Same with those dugout dancers: gets so tired after 80 home dates. And Ace! Memo to the boardroom: Mascots can't be cool! They have to be goofy. If you're in a mascot outfit, and you're not being goofy, something is really wrong.
VBF - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#128554) #
Agreed, Keith. With the exception to the last few days (sparse and quiet), crowds have been pretty good this year. We don't need a fan activation team, a truck race, or Klondike bars. Now we can focus on the team and cut out the Mickey Mouse stuff. People want to come back and will spend money to watch the team play.

I was the caller who asked about the Hillenbrand/Hinske defensive comparison because in all honesty I think Hinske is a much better defender than Shea (which I thought was a general consensus) and often wondered why he would be DHing while Shea's at first. It's certainly an interesting answer.

Then that stupid alarm started going and I couldn't even hear myself much less Wilner and JP so I asked some muffled question that Alex wanted to know about why Menechino didn't pinch for Adams. I was also distracted by visions of "Hoffman" and "Giant Bell in section 518" that I didn't know what to ask. Not to mention my "Bring the Big Hurt to Toronto" campaign. He will be healthy!

Oh and that stupid siren is always going off. It's not even a real alarm, alarm.
Flex - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#128555) #
Thanks for the WWJP play-by-play. Had to take care of the flu-ridden wife.
Speaking of rookie pitchers, I was pretty impressed with what I saw of League tonight.
rtcaino - Wednesday, September 21 2005 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#128556) #
Good call VBF. From what I could hear you held your own with the big boys.

The Jay Force definitely has to go. Have you ever been at a game and seen the faces of the people sitting near the dugout? Half of them are disinterested, and the other half are just confused.

As for mascots, BJ birdie was way better than Ace is. Though I never considered BJ to be “goofy”.

I respect JP for not wanting to spend 12 mill plus on a power bat. It is true that the way to go is to develop your own. Only problem is we haven't yet. I sure hope he can swing a deal for someone though.

I don't think it is fair to say that JP wants another Hillenbrand type hitter. There is a big divide separating a Konerko/Delgado and a Hillenbrand. Hopefully we can get a guy somewhere in-between. Hopefully that guy can be on the high end of that in-between.
Twilight - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#128558) #
Tonight though is an example of what power can do for your ball club. The Ortiz/Ramirez combo of the Red Sox is a prime example; how much do you think those players are worth? A heck of a lot if you ask me. Boston has a good team but they would be nowhere without those two guys.

Inconsistency seems to be a problem with the club. First, Rios is hot, hitting everything. Then all of a sudden, he can't hit, and Adams hits everything. Now Adams can't hit anything, and Rios is hot again. Both these players, I believe, will improve greatly in the next couple of years, and I can see Adams being a very consistent .320 hitter eventually...but if the Jays plan to make a pennant run or a run for the wild card, and beat one of Boston/NY and Cleveland and Oakland, they're going to need consistency.

I was also impressed with League. That guy has great stuff, and when it goes where he wants it, he's tough. I don't think he gave up any hits. Also kudos to Marcum for keeping the Jays in the game by not giving up any runs.

About Koskie's hit: that was a base hit IMO. Betancourt really had to jump for it, and didn't get all of his glove on it. This is MLB, but I think scoring that as an error is really pushing the expectations of what needs to be caught.

If the only way to be consistent is to pay $10 million for a 40 home run hitter, well so be it. A team that really wants to contend can't lose 1-0 to the Devil Rays.

And a final comment about Hernandez. Wow. No hitter or not, that guy can pitch. If he stays healthy, I see multiple Cy Young awards for him.
VBF - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:15 AM EDT (#128559) #
Oh, could someone actually tell me what he said? The line was so bad, I eventually had to cut off. I couldn't hear anyone on the other end.
Lefty - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:18 AM EDT (#128560) #
Other than seeing Syracuse in Ottawa this spring tonight I got the closest to seeing a game live in many a year. Flying to Halifax today I had to change planes at Pearson and flew over the opened roof of the RC at 6:45 eastern.

I am truly blessed.
rtcaino - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 02:31 AM EDT (#128562) #
Twilight: League went 3 2/3. 0h 2bb 2k. The problem with league is that so far he has been unable to locate his incredible stuff. Apparently it has to do with finding a consistent release point, though I could be wrong. If this guy develops into the bullpen ace he is capable of being, that would go a long way to securing the Blue Jays spot as a perennial contender for the next 5 years.

Sorry VBF, I didn't hear his answer to your second question. Between the sirens and my clock radio static.
Andrew K - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 05:27 AM EDT (#128563) #
I respect JP for not wanting to spend 12 mill plus on a power bat. It is true that the way to go is to develop your own. Only problem is we haven't yet. I sure hope he can swing a deal for someone though.

I don't respect JP for this. I will be extremely disappointed if he doesn't sign a top tier bat this offseason: that would be the point at which I give up on him, admit that I was wrong about his talent, and start wanting him to leave. I just hope he's misdirecting other teams, with his current comments, because I do not think he can be successful otherwise. How many teams succeed without a scary big name batter? Oakland (to some extent) and that's about it.

Now I have no problem with the strategy of developing your own hitters. But JP isn't following that strategy, because he doesn't draft enough of them very high up, and neither is he trading for them at minor league level. And those hitters drafted pre-JP are not being developed successfully either.

JP has to wake up. This team is not on a trajectory to success without the import of one or two elite players. He's been given the money to do just that. Now execute, or give the job to someone who will.

90ft_turnleft - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 06:12 AM EDT (#128564) #
Before the season ends I just want to send major kudos to all who have contributed to this site with very articulate,well thought out and extremely informative posts.
I didn't stumble onto this baseball/blue jay site until unfortunately(for me)the season was 3/4 done.

I look forward to all of your year end comments,be it from a baseballiophile(making up words as I go)or neophyte fan.

Keeping with the etiquette of this particular posting(commenting on last nights game)it seemed to be a microcosm of their entire season.For the most part a well pitched game once again layed to waste by very little run support,all due apologies to the Seattle phenom who pitched a masterful game.

I hope at years end the more astute and learned bluejayiophiles will compose a graded score for the entire team,including coaches and management.........that's right Godfrey even you pal.
I would be very interested to read any/all your comments...........I have a few of my own,more than a few for sure,to add to the mix.
Anyhoo,my $.02 worth,and I do spend it wisely.
Joe - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 07:30 AM EDT (#128565) #
I was a bit disppointed that JP said he didn't want to sign a big power bat because it would cost too much, but keep in mind he specifically said that he couldn't sign such a bat, and implied or said outright that it'd have to be acquired through a trade. I don't think anybody would cry crocodile tears if we had a big bat that was acquired through trade instead of signed for $15 million/year.
VBF - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#128570) #
I might. We'd certainly have to give up something for this bat, and it would definitely come at a price. (Unless it was a salary dump sorta thing). Whereas, if we spend money (which is the pupose of money in the first place), we can maintain an almost exact copy of this team, but with the addition and we'd still have 10-12 million to spend elsewhere.
jsut - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#128583) #
The only potentiall good thing about a trade is that it's also the only way they are going to solve the too many people for too few positions problem.

However, chances are they are going to have to give up at least one person that you really don't want them to in order to actually get someone back that you want.
Jacko - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#128598) #
I'm happy enough to see Gross get an extended trial next year. Johnson can spell him against tough lefties, and also give Rios a break now and again.

Which leaves the following for DH/1B/3B:

<new scary power bat>

I think we have to face the fact that Hinske is basically untradeable. He's also not nearly as bad as people make him out to be (i.e. his hitting is league average, and his defense at 1B is a cut above). The only way I could see him being traded was if the Jays agreed to take on an expensive contract (say, Jim Thome?)

I think Hill goes back to AAA next year unless Hudson is traded.

To make room for a big scary power bat (TM) they Jays are going to have to find takers for 2/3 of Cat, Hillenbrand, and Koskie. Koskie's down year combined with his highish salary makes him almost as untradeable as Hinkse.

Therefore, I think Cat and Hillenbrand will be part of a trade to land that power bat they Jays are desperately seeking.

I'm still a big fan of minor league sluggers like Marcus Thames and Joe Dillon, but I do understand that the Jays have reached the point where they've got plenty of spare parts, and need to concentrate on landing some stars.
TamRa - Thursday, September 22 2005 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#128629) #
The problem is that Kenrko is not REMOTELY worth an 8 figure salary. He's not a consistant threat to top 1.000 OPS and that's what a 10 mil plus hitter needs to be.

And he's far and away the best hitter on the FA market.

So we'll either have to deal for one (Dunn, ferinstance, or Jose Guillen) and pay him whatever he's due...or we'll sign a hitter who makes something less than Kenerko is demanding (Piazza? Thomas?)
Mariners 3, Blue Jays 2 | 28 comments | Create New Account
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