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This Day in Baseball TDIB 9 April 2008
What a game.

Though he was shaky, I was happy to see Brandon League get an inning. One of the faults of Gibbons' managing is that sometimes he completely loses faith in a reliever (a la Frasor last year). Last year, Milwaukee showed us what happened when you overuse certain relievers at the beginning of the year.

I guess B.J. and Armando will be up soon anyway. If those 2 can stay healthy, what a pen.
Posted by Dave Rutt on Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 09:56 AM EDT.
TDIB 9 April 2008 | 28 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#182414) #
Stairs' throw to the plate on the sac fly early in the game was extremely weak.  I wonder if his sore hip is still bothering him.
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subculture - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#182420) #

a very exciting game.

I kept thinking it must be perfect hitters conditions, b/c they all looked comfortable up there, while few of the pitchers did. 

Burnett had more of those types of games earlier with the Jays, here's hoping that was a rare glimpse of that for this year.  On a good night, he would have mowed that lineup down.. Tallet looked very tentative as well. 

I liked Gibbons putting Accardo in the game despite being tied... too bad it didn't work out but I appreciate he didn't reserve him for 'save only' situations.  League needs more work, he looks like his stuff is back... hitters do NOT look comfortable against him.

I earlier wrote how much I liked this Jays lineup, and so far I'm pretty happy with the offence!  Overbay and Stewart are not even hitting yet, and Rolen will be big....

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timpinder - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#182421) #
If Ryan and Benitez both eventually join the Jays, who's gone?  Wells might be the easiest arm to give up, but the Jays could lose him to the Cubs.  Wolfe and League have options, but Gibbons seems to really like Wolfe.  Frasor is rotting away in the Jays' pen and could be traded, I suppose.  My guess is that League is sent to AAA and Frasor is traded after Ryan and Benitez are called up.
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Mike Green - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#182422) #
The evidence that Armando Benitez is, at this point in his career, a better pitcher than Jason Frasor is difficult to find.  The logical move is Ryan up/Wolfe down or Wells out, but I am not counting on it.
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rtcaino - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#182423) #
What is the deal with Armando Benitez?

I hadn't heard much about him until recently. His numbers in the most recent three years have been rather poor. Why do we expect him to be able to contribute with the big club this year?

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timpinder - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#182424) #
I agree that Frasor is a better pitcher than Benitez right now.  I also think League could be throwing in the 7th or 8th right now.  Personally, I'd bring up Ryan and let Wells go back to the Cubs.  I just don't think that's going to happen though.
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ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#182425) #
Frasor is rotting away in the Jays' pen and could be traded, I suppose

Gibbons did get Frasor up a couple of times in the pen last night.  I don't know why he wasn't brought in though.  Thing is, we've just been fortunate so far to have some great outings by our starters.  A few more outings like yesterday and everyone will get their work in.

None of that really matters though as I assume you're referring to past history with Frasor and I just don't see what everyone else sees with him to indicate a necessity for greater usage.  When he's on, he's definitely on, but a glance at his game logs from the past few years shows that he can lose it all of a sudden and really hurt you.  His bad runs don't seem to be random as they would with other people, but come in heavy clumps.  And his rough patches don't seem to be a result of inactivity (end of April last year following consistent action and end of June last year following consistent action).  I don't see a spot as a late-inning reliever for someone like that, and if you're a middle reliever, I don't think you ever get used much more consistently than Frasor has.

Gibbons has managed to find a way to get Frasor 50+ games and 50+ innings each of the last 4 years, which includes 2 years with stints in the minors.  That's right in line with how any team will use their 4th or 5th reliever and I don't see how Frasor has proven himself better than the likes of Ryan, Accardo, Janssen, Downs, and Speier who are guys that put him in that spot as 4th / 5th arm out of the pen.
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zeppelinkm - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#182426) #

Argh! I'm sending Roger's a request for hair compensation. I want my hair back.

Seriously, if last night wasn't the most frustrating, toy with your emotions game in the last 4 or 5 years...

Did Burnett fall behind 2 - 0 to every hitter? Aside from the ones that got a hit on one of the first 2 pitches, it seems like a good possibility.

Pretty sure the turning point in last night's game was the 3rd pitch to the 3rd batter of the first inning. If Burnett gets him out, my gut tells me that last night would tell a completely different story. IF, he got him out.... and we all know he didn't.

Some positive's from last night:

Despite 2 walks, League looked good - his stuff did, at least. Way better then last year. That sinker has sharp bite, and at 97 mph, I simply say "good luck".

Thomas and Wells. A) Both seem to be getting off to a better start then last year and B) This isn't artificial - it's not like they've opened the season with 4 out of 7 games against lefties. They are hitting RHP early in the season.

ummm... the only other positive would be the fact that 3 guys - Burnett, Tallet, and Accardo - talked before the game and thought it would be most beneficial to the team to all have a bad night the same game. I think maybe Eckstein over heard them, too...

Negatives:

This wasn't just last night, but Stairs has not looked good at the plate this year. Can someone remind me, but my memory says he didn't start looking good at the plate last year until a couple weeks had gone by, so maybe he's just still shaking off the rust.

But regardless, i'm itching more and more everyday now for Lind to be called up, Coats to be sent down, and Stewart and Stairs to be two excellent bench players. Lind can change this team.... think of what him if he's hitting well, would do to our lineup. THINK ABOUT IT!!!

PS: I want Rolen back ASAP. I like Scutaro and think he was a good pickup, but the Jays need Rolen back.

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ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#182427) #
This wasn't just last night, but Stairs has not looked good at the plate this year. Can someone remind me, but my memory says he didn't start looking good at the plate last year until a couple weeks had gone by, so maybe he's just still shaking off the rust.

But regardless, i'm itching more and more everyday now for Lind to be called up, Coats to be sent down, and Stewart and Stairs to be two excellent bench players. Lind can change this team.... think of what him if he's hitting well, would do to our lineup. THINK ABOUT IT!!!

You're right about Stairs.  It wasn't until about game 30 that Stairs really started to put things together last year (at least as far as outcomes, hard to take a quick glance at K rates and such).

as for Lind, I think he needs more time in AAA right now - his horrible year in the majors last year isn't yet offset by his 6 games in the Cuse so far.

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Alex Obal - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#182429) #
CJF, just curious - if some omniscient being told you (but only you) Adam Lind is a .295/.360/.470 hitter vs RHP in the majors this year, would you still want him to spend another month in Syracuse to 'prove himself' worthy of a promotion regardless? Like, for optics reasons or character building or somesuch?
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Rob - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#182430) #
What is the deal with Armando Benitez?

Magic closer dust. Gibby and the Mets. Something like that.

It's a pretty small thing to worry about, but I'm with Mike. If Benitez is here in the Charles Vincent Chulk Memorial Role...whatever, Frasor can do that. If he's supposed to be crucial to the bullpen, well geez, nobody tell anyone that Benitez turned opposing batters into Vladdy Guerrero in high leverage situations last year.
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scottt - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#182431) #
deja vu
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HollywoodHartman - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#182432) #
Profanities!
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ChicagoJaysFan - Wednesday, April 09 2008 @ 11:54 PM EDT (#182433) #
CJF, just curious - if some omniscient being told you (but only you) Adam Lind is a .295/.360/.470 hitter vs RHP in the majors this year, would you still want him to spend another month in Syracuse to 'prove himself' worthy of a promotion regardless? Like, for optics reasons or character building or somesuch?

Of course not - I'd like Lind in the majors in that case.

I want Lind in AAA because he looks like he still has stuff to learn there.  He has had a grand total of one month in AAA where he's lit it up (the end of '06).  He still hasn't had a total of 300 ABs at AAA and his last 174 there (last year) his OPS was .824.  That's good, but it's not something that indicates you're beyond AAA.

Furthermore, instead of the .295/.360/.470, Lind put up .270/.308/.464 last year against righties.
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ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#182434) #
Sorry, those are Lind's career #'s in the majors against righties, not last year's.

Last year, Lind went .251/.289/.430 against RHPs.

We have someone else in AAA who puts up similar #'s against RHP.  Should we find a spot for the 27 year-old who in his major league career has a .264/.324/.399 line against RHPs including an improved .259/.333/.426 last year?  Or do you think Russ Adams isn't quite major league caliber?
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ANationalAcrobat - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:22 AM EDT (#182435) #
We have someone else in AAA who puts up similar #'s against RHP. Should we find a spot for the 27 year-old who in his major league career has a .264/.324/.399 line against RHPs including an improved .259/.333/.426 last year? Or do you think Russ Adams isn't quite major league caliber?

Adams can't play proper defense unless he's at second base, and Hill is pretty firmly entrenched there.

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katman - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:43 AM EDT (#182436) #
Man, it hurt watching Accardo again today. What's with him?
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Radster - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 12:59 AM EDT (#182437) #

Wells has been designated for assignment and Jess Carlson is called up.   I guess Armando isn't quite so high on the depth chart (yet)!

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Alex Obal - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:20 AM EDT (#182438) #
Alright, that's all I was asking. Realistically, I'd probably expect something average, like .260/.335/.438 say, with 19 homers, in a full season.

For the record though I don't see what Lind really stands to gain from AAA at-bats other than repaired confidence. After his merely okay 2007 he's still a career .336/.413/.519 in 329 PA at AAA, not counting this year. My impression is that the fastest way for him to learn to keep his strikeout rate out of the stratosphere at the major-league level is by gaining regular experience against AL pitching that goes after him. At some point in the near future, the marginal returns of being pitched around by guys who lack major-league command or stuff are going to hit zero.
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greenfrog - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:22 AM EDT (#182439) #
A few notes:

- You think the Jays are missing Casey Janssen (setup version) right about now?

- I think Benitez will make the team. Just a feeling. I think his power arm + experience will edge someone (Wolfe?) out, at least temporarily.

- It's hard to get a handle on this team. Are they (potentially) really good? Mediocre? Somewhere in between? I guess it's just too early to tell, especially with two key players still MIA. There are a few red flags, though. They don't seem to be in sync.

- I have completely, utterly forgotten what it's like to have the Jays go on a prolonged winning streak. When did that last happen? 1999? 1996? I'm thinking seven, eight, ten games. That would be nice.

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Ishai - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 01:47 AM EDT (#182440) #
There once was a man who said, "This is a sinking ship!"
Well, maybe he wrote it, and maybe he didn't capitalize, or add an exclamation mark, but I think I captured the essence of it.

Not wanting such a negative influence in the clubhouse, we traded him to a stupid GM.

Now the man we got for him is sinking our ship. The ghost of Shea lives on.

I propose that every time Accardo blows a close game, sinking ship jokes must made.
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IceCreamJonsey - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 03:28 AM EDT (#182441) #

I couldn't catch the game tonight, but it sounds like Accardo induced a ground ball with one out, a runner on first and the lead. Scutaro made a bad decision (from what I've read) followed by a bad throw. Don't know how much I can blame Accardo for this one. If he was completely automatic and could mow down three guys in a row, the Giants wouldn't have let him go in the first place. That being said, in a month we have Rolen and Ryan making those plays at the end of the game instead of Scutaro and Accardo, so I'm not going to get overly frustrated.

 

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christaylor - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 06:10 AM EDT (#182442) #
I know it is a little early but this team doesn't seem to be appreciably different from the last two seasons, you know, the one that could be a 90 win team but has something missing.

I'm hoping that something is Rolen and Ryan, but I won't hold my breath.

There's just been too much that's been woefully familiar, in both the wins and the losses.
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scottt - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 06:42 AM EDT (#182443) #
Definitively missing Janssen.

Kind of weird when all the pitchers struggles all of a sudden. Was there an easy inning last night?  Curious to see if the trouble continue with Barajas behind the plate.

Could be worse. Facing Kansas City, the Yankees started the game with the bullpen to keep Kennedy fresh because there was rain in the forecast. Still trying to understand that one. Kennedy comes in in the 6th when they're down by 2 and quickly surrendy 2 runs on 2 hits and a walk.

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timpinder - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 08:26 AM EDT (#182444) #

This is the first game in which I believe injuries really hurt the team, and likely contributed to the loss.  A healthy Ryan probably doesn't lose a game and blow a save two days in a row.  Rolen likely doesn't throw an inning ending double-play ball 15' wide of home plate, and he might add a run or two with the bat as well.

Wells has been cut and Carlson has been called up.  Carlson's promotion will probably only last until Ryan is ready.

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ChicagoJaysFan - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 08:35 AM EDT (#182445) #
For the record though I don't see what Lind really stands to gain from AAA at-bats other than repaired confidence. After his merely okay 2007 he's still a career .336/.413/.519 in 329 PA at AAA, not counting this year. My impression is that the fastest way for him to learn to keep his strikeout rate out of the stratosphere at the major-league level is by gaining regular experience against AL pitching that goes after him. At some point in the near future, the marginal returns of being pitched around by guys who lack major-league command or stuff are going to hit zero.

He definitely won't be pitched around by everyone - his sub .800 OPS against lefties in AAA (career) can still be improved and I doubt that any LHPs down there will pitch around him until that gets corrected.

Also, I think that you have to have some degree of ability / competitiveness in order to learn at a level.  Hitting at such low levels that Lind did last year in the majors can be just as likely to induce bad habits in order to find anything that works as it can be to actually learn something.  At the end of the day, if Lind ends up mashing over .900 OPS, he'll be promoted, likely after 2-3 months in the minors, especially if we're still not getting much from the LF spot in the majors.
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uglyone - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#182467) #

well, on the topic of Lind, here's how he's done through his first 8 games (including today):

8gms, 28ab, 2hr, 9rbi, .429avg, .500obp, .750slg, 1.250ops

maybe it's just a question of "when" now, not "if".

 

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uglyone - Thursday, April 10 2008 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#182470) #

sorry for the repeat post......but he ended up having one more AB today....new totals:

A.Lind: 8gms, 29ab, 2hr, 9rbi, .448avg, .515obp, .759slg, 1.275ops

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TDIB 9 April 2008 | 28 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.