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Yesterday's All-P.M. Hall of Names team calls to mind the fact that we have done a number of "all-initial" teams including every single double initial from AA through ZZ, as well as GM, PR, JR, MD, TO, BS, MO and JV, among others. Some of these rosters would be quite good -- some, well, not so much. But your challenge, Bauxites ... what initials would form the best possible team? Let us know your candidates ...

For instance, an All-AR squad could include Alex Rodriguez, Aramis Ramirez, Al Rosen, Aaron Rowand, Amos Rusie and Allie Reynolds. (Not to mention one Alexis Rios.)  Who can build a lineup, or even a full roster, to beat that one?

A few rules ...
  • The standard Hall of Names "no nicknames" rule applies, so if you want to go all-B.R. on us, you get Brooks Robinson, but you don't get George Herman "Babe" Ruth.
  • The equally standard went-by-his-middle-name exception applies, so, for instance, George Thomas Seaver is a T.S. like Tris Speaker (whose given first name was Tristram, in case you were thinking nickname there) and not a G.S. like Gary Sheffield.
Ready? Set? G.O.!
Reader Challenge: Initially Speaking | 85 comments | Create New Account
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dan gordon - Wednesday, October 15 2008 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#193331) #
The JM's would have a formidable pitching staff led by Hall Of Famers Jaun Marichal and Joe McGinnity, and featuring Jack Morris, Jim Maloney, Jon Matlack, John Montefusco, Jamie Moyer and others.  They could score a few runs, too, with Hall members Joe Morgan, Johnny Mize and Joe Medwick, backed by Joe Mauer, John Mayberry, John McGraw and a host of lesser names.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 15 2008 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#193332) #

Okay, I dare anyone to beat THIS team, which is significantly better than the aforementioned A.R. team -- meet the J.B. squad, and I bet I missed someone as I only looked at All-Stars and Hall of Famers ...

** Hall of Famer
* All-Star

Player/Manager: Jim Bottomley**

C Johnny Bench**
1B Jake Beckley**
2B Jeff Blauser*
SS Jay Bell*
3B Jeff Bagwell*(*) (yes, that's cheating -- came up as a 3B but never played there in MLB)
LF Jesse Burkett**
CF James "Cool Papa" Bell**
RF Jesse Barfield*
DH Jay Buhner*

C NONE (but Bench is okay with that)
UTIL Jackie Brandt*
IF Jimmy Brown*
OF Jeff Burroughs*
OF Jim Busby*
OF Jason Bay*

SP Jim Bunning**
SP Jim Bouton*
SP Josh Beckett*
SP Jim Bagby Jr.* (Jim Sr. was better but pre-dated the AS game)
SP Jim Bibby*

CL Jeff Brantley*
SET Jim Brewer*
RP Jack Billingham*
RP Jason Bere*
RP John Burkett*

Not even making the team from the list of All-Stars and HOFers: James Baldwin, Johnnie "Dusty" Baker, Jeromy Burnitz

Not All-Stars (yet) but coming fast: Jay Bruce, Jeremy Bonderman

smcs - Wednesday, October 15 2008 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#193333) #
The BB Guns would have quite the lineup, with the Bonds family, the Boone family, Bob Bailor, Billy Buckner and Bobby Bonilla, with a pitching staff featuring Bob Buhl, Boof Bonser and Britt Burns (retired in 1985 at age 26 with a career 111 ERA+).  Sadly, this team cannot feature Ryk Aalbert Blyleven.  At GM, this team could also use the astute mind of Billy Beane.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 15 2008 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#193334) #
The RC team might have the best offensive club with Campanella, Connor, Carew, Chapman and Cey around the infield, Colavito, Clemente and Cullenbine in the outfield and Carty DHing.  The bench would be excellent with Cano, Cerone, Clayton, Roger Cedeno/Ryan Church and Coomer.  Unfortunately, after Roger Clemens, the pitching falls off dramatically. 

seeyou - Wednesday, October 15 2008 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#193336) #
Personally, I'm a big fan of the M&M team.  No major holes anywhere, six all-star starting pitchers, and a pretty decent 4-5 punch in the line-up with Mantle and McGwire.

C Milt May (.263, 1970-1984) 

1B Mark McGwire (.263, 583 HR, 1986-2001)

2B Mark McLemore (.259, 272 SB, 1986-2004)

SS Marty Marion (.263, 1940-1953, 1944 NL MVP)

3B Melvin Mora (.280, 1999-2008)            

LF Manny Mota (.304, 1962-1982)

CF Mickey Mantle (.298, 536 HR, 1951-1968)

RF Mike Marshall (.270, 1981-1991)

DH Mike McCormick (.275, 1940-1951)



C Mike MacFarlane (.252, 129 HR, 1987-1999)

2B Mickey Morandini (.268, 1990-2000)

 2B/3B/SS Marty McManus (.289, 120 HR, 1920-1934)

OF Matty McIntyre (.269, 1901-1912)

OF Mike Menosky (.278, 1914-1923)

OF Mike Mitchell (.278, 202 SB, 1907-1914)


LHSP Mike Mussina (270-153, 3.68 ERA, 1991-2008)

RHSP Mike Moore (161-176, 4.39 ERA, 1982-1995)

RHSP Mike Morgan (141-186, 4.23 ERA, 1978-2002)

LHSP Mike McCormick (134-128, 3.73 ERA, 1956-1971)

RHSP Matt Morris (121-92, 3.98 ERA, 1997-2008)

LHSP Mark Mulder (103-60, 4.18 ERA, 2000-2008)


CL Matt Mantei (93 SVs, 1995-2005)

RHRP Mike MacDougal (50 SVs, 2001-2008)

LHRP Mike Myers (25-24, 14 SVs, 1995-2007)

RHRP Mike Maddux (39-37, 20 SVs, 1986-2000)

LHRP Mike Magnante (26-32, 4.08 ERA, 1991-2002)

vw_fan17 - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#193343) #
Hmm. I think Jorge (George) Bell might even qualify for the JBs. Saw his name spelled that way at least once or twice.. Too bad George Brett doesn't qualify for similar reasons.. That would solve your 3B problems nicely..
Mick Doherty - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#193353) #

seeyou, great minds think alike (and so do ours!) ... when I did the all-MM team about three years ago (part of the all-double-initials series mentioned earlier),below is what I came up with ... not many differences. I had McGwire DH and Marshall at 1B, which is a wash for your McGwire at 1B and McCormick DH'ing ... you start Mora and I have him on the bench ... I missed Mike Maddux and Mark McLemore entirely ... I should not have used Minoso, per house rules ...  I think you did slightly better than me, overall, though I think Mantle/McGwire would hit 3/4 not 4/5 -- and P.S., Mussina is a righty

M&M's: Not in Your Hands
**indicates Hall of Fame
* indicates All-Star

C Milt May (.263, 1970-84)
1B Mike A. Marshall* (.270, 148 homers)
2B Mickey Morandini* (.268 in 11 years)
SS Marty Marion* (.263 in 13 years)
3B Merrill "Pinky" May* (.275 in five years)
LF Saturnino "Minnie" Minoso* (.298, 1963 hits)
CF Mickey Mantle** (.298, 536 homers)
OF Manny Mota* (.304 in 20 seasons)
DH Mark McGwire* (583 homers)

C Matt Merullo (.234, 1989-95)
IF Mario Mendoza (.215 in nine years)
OF Matt Mieske (.262, 1993-2000)
OF Myron "Mike" McCormick (.275, 1940-51)
UTIL Marty Martinez (.243, 1962-72; all nine positions)
UTIL Melvin Mora* (.281 through 2005; all but P, C)

RHSP Mike Mussina* (224-127 through 2005)
LHSP Mark Mulder* (97-50 through 2005)
RHSP Matt Morris* (101-62 through 2005)
LHSP Mike F. McCormick* ('67 NL CYA; 134-128)
RHSP Mike Moore* (161-176)

CL-RH Mike G. Marshall* ('74 NL CYA; 188 saves)
LH-SET Mike Myers (20-22, 14 saves through 2005)
RH-SET Matt Mantei (93 saves through 2005)
RHRP Mike Morgan* (141-186)
LHRP Mike Matthews (14-10 through 2005)


zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#193354) #


The Right Hander's (RH.. )

With a rotation led by our own beloved Doc, I think this team would be a pain in the butt to play against but only be a slightly to above average over the run of a season, unless someone can find the offence one more big bat.  A deep pitching staff, a lineup containing a few stars but thin overall... is it enough??

Roy 'Doc' Halladay AS
Rick Honeycutt AS
Rich Harden
Rick Helling
Ray Herbert AS

A bullpen made up of average to above average starters and one AS closer...

Rich Hill
Ron Herbel
Roy Henshaw
Rip Hagerman
Ramon hernandez 1967-77 era+ 115
Roberto hernandez (cl) AS

Now, the lineup. I think RH might be the deepest set of initials for the catching position ever as there are at least 10 catchers with those initials and at least 3 All Star's.  I have included all 3 of them because I don't know them well enough to decide on who gets to start! Not to mention ever other infielder was an all star at least once. And one of them was really good.

The infielder and backups:

Randy Hundley C AS
Ramon Hernandez C AS
Rollie Hemsley C  AS
Ryan Howard   1B  AS
Rogers Hornsby 2B AS HOF
Ron Hansen    SS  AS
Roy Howell 3B AS

How was Hansen's defence? He was only a career .234/.320/.351 but with a 92 OPS+.  I also don't know much about Howell... the right side of the infielder is a little easier to understand. Hornsby and Howard.

The outfielder is thin but contains one legend:

Ricky Henderson
Richard Hidaldo
Ralph Hodgin

Would be my starters... as some of the backups on the team, whoever from above for catcher, and then AS Ron Hunt at 2B and Roy Hartzell looks like a good option at 3B... tons of other medicore, slightly below average hitters to pick from who played in a small amount of games to fill out the backup spots. The outfield is definitely the weak link on this team - find some guys!


Hernandez (Ramon)

And hope they play in the National League... they just need one more good batter for their DH to fill out the top half and let Hernandez form part of the middle with Hiladgo.



zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#193356) #
Richie Hebner (.276/.355/.438 OPS+ of 119 over 1908 games) might be a better option at 3B.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#193363) #
You met the Right-Handers (RH) -- now how about the Left-Handers (LH)?

First, because I am a rule-stickling jerk, my ace is Roy Halladay. Sure, he goes by his middle name, which makes him eligible, but Harry Halladay's given middle name is Leroy, so he fronts my rotation, not the RH rotation, Nyahhh, zeppelinkm. Now then ...

MGR Lum Harris (466-488, one division title, parts of 1961-72)
Coach Louie Heilbroner (23-25, 1900 St. Louis Cardinals)

C Larry Haney
1B Larry Howard (C played two games at 1B)
2B Lee Handley (mostly a 3B, but more than 100 games at 2B)
SS Lenny Harris (UTIL did everything but catch)
3B Leo Hernandez 
LF Larry Hisle*
CF Larry Harlow
RF Larry Herndon
DH Lou Hardie (19th century catcher)

RHSP Harry Leroy Halladay* :-)
RHSP LaMarr Hoyt*
RHSP Livan Hernandez*
RHSP Luke Hudson
RHSP Luke Hamlin

RHRP Leroy Herrmann
RHRP Larry Hardy
RHRP Loy Hanning
RHP Luke Hochevar
RHP Lum Harris (player/manager)
RHRP Luther Hackman

We have to stretch more than a little -- there is no bench. The second-best catcher on the team is starting at 1B, where he appeared briefly for two MLB games. Playing Lenny Harris at short won't make the pitching staff happy, but he did appear there 52 times in his 1200+ big league games. Speaking of pitching, how ironic is it that the entire 11-man pitching staff of LH Ps is made up of RHPs?

I limited what I looked at to players who had spent at least parts of two seasons in the big leagues, so there is probably the potential for a bench, but really, does it matter? I mean, look at that "roster"! Can you really blame me for stealing Halladay? The RH team still beats this team six times in a seven-game series!

The only way this team competes is if I include the seemingly dozens of guys last-name-H who were nicknamed "Lefty" ... and as noted, I am a rule-stickler, even when the team blows.


Mike Green - Thursday, October 16 2008 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#193366) #
The JC team is solid all the way around:

C Jeff Clement
1B Jack Clark*
2B Jerry Coleman*
SS Joe Cronin**
3B Jimmy Collins**
LF Jose Cruz Sr.*
CF Jose Cardenal*
RF Joe Carter* (Callison would be better, but hometown bias)
DH Jose Canseco*

C NONE (but Bench is okay with that)
UTIL Jorge Cantu
IF Jeff Cirillo*
OF Johnny Callison*
OF Joe Cunningham*
OF Jack Cust

SP John Clarkson**
SP Jack Chesbro**
SP Joe Coleman*
SP John Candelaria*
SP Jim Clancy*

CL Joba Chamberlain (** in waiting ;-0)
SET Jim Coates*
RP Jesse Carlson
RP John Cerutti
RP Jack Combs

Mick Doherty - Friday, October 17 2008 @ 01:12 AM EDT (#193370) #
Which Joe Coleman, dad or junior? They were both pretty good -- didn't they both make All-Star teams?

I see you have a cut-and-paste leftover on your bench, Mike -- no backup catcher? Didn't Callison catch some early on? He could fill that role, I guess ... and wasn't Cirillo an emergency catcher at some point?

I thought I'd resist (but obviously not) commenting on the JC's ... Jesus Christ, that's a good team!  That's some star power for your bullpen ... looking for a savior, you get THE guy ... and the team name, I assume, would be JC Saves?
zeppelinkm - Friday, October 17 2008 @ 07:27 AM EDT (#193371) #
Boourns!! We'll just ask him which team he'd rather play for...
Mike Green - Friday, October 17 2008 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#193374) #
Thanks, Mick.  Like the JBs, the JCs don't have any real backup catcher that I saw, though I might have missed one.

I thought that with Canseco and Clark, the JCs should be the JC Superstars, and the only question is whether their late inning song should be "I don't know how to love him" or Tracy Chapman's "Fast car". 

zeppelinkm - Saturday, October 18 2008 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#193391) #
Is Duke Snider eligable for a DS team? With Sutton, Stieb and Stewart leading the rotation, Snider would be the ultimate piece in a lineup already deep in talent with Darryl Strawberry, David Segui and Don Slaught behind the dish. Duke Sims is a pretty good hitter (and he went by Duane). With Snider on the team they could compete for a division title, me thinks. The other big question is, do Dick's quality for D or for R?
lexomatic - Saturday, October 18 2008 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#193393) #
I did a BC team
and while it's got some good players there was an insane quantity of mediocre players to choose from.
so the overall strength of the roster ain't great a few allstars though and a hall of fame manager. its' a very versatile roster with lots of positional flexibility. more speed than power and a deep pen that can pitch a ton.

Manager: Bobby Cox 28 years 15 1st place finishes
GP 4184 W2327 L1854 %.557

C bill craver c/ut 1871-77 290 302 374 ops+111
1B bob cerv* 1958 38 hr 305 371 592
2B ben chapman* of/3b/2b 1931 17 hr 61 sb 315/396/483
SS bobby Crosby 22 hr
3B billy cox 3b/ss 262 318 380 car 298/218 bb/k '53 10 hr 291 /806 ops
LF brady clark 277 258 386 2005: 306 372 426 13 hr
CF birdie cree 1911 22 3b 48 sb 348 415 513 ops+152 career ops+125
RF bernie carbo of .264.387.427 '70.310.454.551 20 hr 365 ab 94/77 bb/k

C bob clark 1886-93 C .230.296.280 71 sb 288 gp
IF buster chatham 3b-ss 1930 267 332 408
IF bill cissell 2b/ss 1932 315.349.440 18 sb 50 xb
UT bert campaneris* ss /ut .259.311.342 649 sb
1B bud clancy 1b 24-34 .281/325/368 ops+81
UT bob chance of/1b 1963-69 .261 .323.406
OF bruce campbell .290 .367.455

bartolo colon* rhp 2x 20 wins, 200+ k 150 w 2000 ip 1500 k era+112
bob caruthers rhp 1885 40-13 482 ip 430 h 57/190 bb/k 2.07 era 158e+
buzz capra* rhp 16-8 2.28 era 165 era+ 1974
bruce chen lhp 13-10 3.83 197 pi 2005

bill caudill * 1982 12-9 26 svs 235 ear 182 era+ 95 ip 111 k
bill campbell rhp 73-87 17-5 20 svs 120 era+ 1977 167 ip
bobby chouinard rhp 11-8 1sv 181 ip 110 k 108 era+ 1.44 whip
bubba church rhp 1950 142 ip 2.73 era 149 era+ 50 k
bryan clark 82 2.75 era 114 ip 70 k
buddy carlyle 08 62 ip 59 k 3.59 era

not bad.. but not good enough.
zeppelinkm - Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 09:01 AM EDT (#193399) #

It's been a slow week, don't judge me!

Below is a team that could score 900 runs a season easily! With an average pitching staff, they could easily win 90 + games a season. If a bonafide ace were to emerge (I know there is a HOF pitcher on the staff, but how good was he? True Ace material?). With the exception of 3B, no player is playing a position that wasn't their #1 position throughout their career. And many of these guys, were considerably above average at the positions they played.


You know you love him........ John Gibbons


C - Josh Gibson** the Babe Ruth of the Negro League
1B - Jim Gentile* 3 time AS, 136 OPS+
2B - Joe Gordon* 8 time AS, 1 MVP, career 120 OPS+
SS - Jack Glasscock, 1737 games from 1879-1895, 112 OPS+, unfortunate last name, 372 SB
3B - Jim Gilliam*, 2 AS's, .360 career OBP, 203 SB's
LF - Juan Gonzalez*, 3 time AS, 6 SS, 2 MVP's, 132 OPS+
CF - Johnny Grubb * AS, 120 career OPS+ over 1424 games
RF - Jay Gibbons/Jonny Gomes platoon
DH - Jason Giambi*, 5 AS, 1 MVP, 2 SS's, Terrible Moustache, 146 OPS+


James "Pud" Galvin** 364-310, 2.86 ERA, 107 ERA+
Jon Garland*  106-89, 4.47 ERA, 103 ERA+
Juan Guzman* 91-79, 4.08 ERA, 112 ERA+
Jeremy Guthrie, 3.89 ERA, 116 ERA+, 57 career starts
Jose Guzman, 4.05 ERA, 102 ERA+, 186 career starts


Jody Gerut, backup OF, 110 career OPS+
Jack Graney, backup OF
Joe Girardi, backup C,  AS
Jerry Grote, backup C/3B, 2 time AS
Joey Gathright, Pinch Running and Car Jumping specialist

Bullpen Candidates:

Jimmy Gobble
Jason Grimsley
Jason Grilli
Joe Gibbon, 3.52 ERA, 102 ERA+, 127 career starts, 419 games

How bout it? How many games do you think these guys win in a season? Can anybody beat the JB's???


Mike Green - Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#193404) #
Nicely done, zep.  Grubb was platooned most of his career, because he couldn't hit lefties for beans.  Unfortunately, Gerut, Gathright and Graney all bat/batted left, so poor Gibbons is left without a viable platoon option.  Galvin would have to throw 500 innings or so with that bullpen.
zeppelinkm - Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#193406) #

Well, as much fun as Gathright would be to have on the bench, maybe if we swapped him with Jose Guillen (he of a career 112 OPS+ against Lefties) the team would be better balanced offensively. Tho, the outfield might be a bit too exciting to watch on games that Gomes and Gonalez are both in the OF during the same game!

You want some help for the bullpen?!! I was just tired looking at the JC's so I kind of gave up on the bullpen but here are some more candidates that should help prevent any starter from being forced to throw 500 innings.

Here are two guys who would make the bullpen stronger (replace Gobble, add in one of these guys):

Jim Gott - 3.87 ERA, 101 ERA+, 1120 innings, 56-74.

Johnny Gorsica - this guy should replace Gobble in the pen so far. Career 98 ERA+, 4.18 ERA, 31-39 over 723.7 innings.

The pen is definitely the weak link on this team, but it just got a little bit better. Anyone else that should go in?

I think the JG's and the JB's would be like the Red Sox and Yankees of the East.

Anyone better?

zeppelinkm - Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#193408) #

Do any set of initials deliver a pitching staff as good/deep as this one?

Johan Santana
John Smoltz
Johnny Sain, four 20 win seasons, 3.49 ERA, 106 ERA+, 3 time AS, 139-116
Jason Schmidt*
James Shields
John Smiley*, 126-103, 3.80 ERA, 102 ERA+
Jack Sanford*, 137 - 101, 3.69 ERA, 98 ERA+

Joe Sambito*, 3.03 ERA, 115 ERA+ (but was consistantly well above 100 with the exception of a 107 and a 109 season for a 7 year stretch)
Jeff Shaw*, 3.54 ERA, 119 ERA+, 2 time AS

Started and Relieved:

Johnny Schmitz, 93-114, 3.55 ERA, 107 ERA+, 2 AS appearances
Jim Slaton, 151-158, 4.03 ERA, 94 ERA+, 1 AS game

OK... I might have come on strong to begin with my opening sentence. Certainly a very very good pitching staff, but methinks it could be beatable. I won't lie, I just thought of Santana, Smoltz, Schmidt, and Shields and I was like, GAH - surely there is some old timer or two I don't know who is AWESOME that would have pushed that foursome over the top. Alas, all I could find were a couple very good relievers and 2 more good starters.

Mike Green - Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#193413) #
Actually, the JS team is pretty damn formidable.  Pitching galore- add Joakim Soria, among several others. As for the lineup, it would be deep and good:

C- Stearns and Sundberg
1B-Joe Start (who was elected to the Hall of Merit)
SS-Joe Sewell
3B- Joe Stripp (a Seitzer type of the 30s)
OF- Stenzel, Sheckard and Jack Smith

Bench of Jim Spencer, John Shelby, Spivey and perhaps Joel Skinner.

Sheckard and Sewell at the top of the order would get on base plenty.  The middle of the order would be passable with Samuel, Stenzel and Start, and the bottom would be superb.  The team would score 800 runs, and I think, with the significant pitching and defence advantage, would be better over the long haul than the JBs.

Mike Green - Monday, October 20 2008 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#193434) #
The MS team would be pretty good:

C-    Manny Sanguillen/Mike Scioscia
1B-  Mule Suttles
2B-  Mike Sharperson
SS- Marco Scutaro
3B- Mike Schmidt
DH- Moose Skowron/Mike Stanley/Mike Sweeney
OF- Moose Solters/Mickey Stanley/Matt Stairs

Mike Shannon would be an excellent 3B/OF backup, and Mike Squires would be a glove at first. Mike Sandlock would be your pathetic back-up middle infielder, although frankly you'd be better off to move Mickey Stanley to short if you had to.

The rotation is good at the top, but has no depth:  Mike Scott, Mario Soto, Mel Stottlemyre, Mike Sirotka and Monty Stratton/Mike Smithson are your men.  The bullpen features Mike Stanton, Manny Sarmiento, Mike Schooler, Max Scherzer and Max Surkont. 

Suttles, Schmidt, Skowron and Stairs would make for a formidable power core, but there's no real leadoff hitter around.

lexomatic - Monday, October 20 2008 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#193435) #
I think I found the team to beat the JB's... the TH Thumpers...

Everyone one of the starting hitters is an all-star except for the DH..and the CF (but the backup is an all star). Most positions have no depth. but the pitching is deep. Many an all-star among the pitchers too. maybe it's due to the pitchign coach. Tom House.

C T. Hundley* 1997 148 ops+ 30 hr 273 394 549 500 pa
1b T. Helton* 328 428 574 141 ops+ 310 hr career
2b T. Herr * 1985 123 ops+ 80 bb 55 k 31/34 sb 38 2b
SS T. Harrah* 145 ops+ 1977 365 obp 114 ops+ career
3b T. Harper* lf/of/3b 1970 146 ops+ 31 hr 296 377 522
Lf T. Holmes* 1945 352 420 577 175 ops+ 28 hr 15 sb 70 bb 9 k
Cf T. Hartsel 1901 162 ops+ 335 414 475 16 3b career 128 ops+
Rf T. Henrich* 282 382 491 132 ops+ 712 bb 383 k
DH T. Hafner career 282 391 534 142 ops+ 147 hr 729 g

of Torii Hunter * 105 ops+ 213 hr 145 sb career
if T. Helms * 79 ops+
c/ut T. Houston 110 ops+2001
c toby hall 77 ops+ career
if t. hulett 80 ops+
of t hollandsworth 96 ops+

Higuera* L 156 era+ 20 w 207 k 1986 162 ear+ 16 w 192 k '88 240 k '87
Hughson* R 96-54 125 era+ career
Hughes R 1903 20-7117 era+244 ip
T Hudson * R 146-77 126 era+

henke* R 311 sv ear+ 156 1.092 whip 861 k 789 ip
hoffman* R 554 sv 145 era+ 1.04 whip 1055 k 988 ip
hume* R 1979 10-9 163 ip 17 sv 137 era+ 1196 whip
house L 196 era+ .984 whip 102 ip
Hughes R 1915 .94 whip 126 era+ 280 ip 171 k 58 bb 50 gp 25 gs
hall L 1970 11-6 155 ip 184 k 149 era+ 1.03 whip

Mick Doherty - Monday, October 20 2008 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#193437) #
Sorry, Mike.
Bill Skowron is not eligible for the M.S. team, any more than Babe Ruth was for B.R. ... but I betcha that B.S. team is nothing to sniff at!

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 12:22 AM EDT (#193438) #
Come to think of it, back in August of '07, we did an All-BS team ... and yes, Skowron was the 1B!
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#193441) #
Right, Mick.  With Moose Skowron, Moose Solters and Mule Suttles out, the MS team loses the animal punch that it needs.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#193446) #
In honour of David Price, the DPs:

Dickey Pearce, Mgr.

C  -   Darrell Porter
1B-   Del Pratt
2B-   Dustin Pedroia
SS-   Dick Padden
3B-   Dean Palmer
RF-   Dave Parker
CF-   Dave Philley
LF-    Dan Pasqua


Dode Paskert (OF), Dave Pope (OF), Don Pavletich (C/1B), Don Padgett (C/1B), Damon Phillips (SS/3B) (Pratt was mostly a second baseman, so he'll fill in should Pedroia get injured)

SP-  Deacon Phillippe
SP-  Dan Petry
SP-  David Palmer
SP-  David Purcey
SP-  Duane Pilette

RP- Dan Plesac
RP- David Price
RP- Donn Pall
RP- Danny Patterson
RP- Dick Pole (I kid you not)

If Price and Purcey develop as they might, this team could have a very good rotation in 10 years. 

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#193458) #
All due respect to Pratt, but should Padden get hurt, you have a fine 19th-century shortstop candidate in player/manager (?) Pearce. I don't know many of the names on his most-comparable players list, but he strikes me as sort of an early-day Doug Flynn, if you remember the former Red and Met.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#193459) #
It appears that Pearce was a very good player and a better choice than Padden, actually.  He was 35 years old in 1871 when we first have statistics.  He played regularly into his 40s.  If you project backwards, he probably hit for a good average in his prime, and he . Here's the BBRef bullpen comment on him. 
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#193461) #
Ack, incomplete sentence alert.  He probably hit for a good average, and played very good defence at shortstop in his prime. Maybe like Dave Bancroft.  This discussion gives some sense of what the Hall of Merit people thought of Pearce.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#193478) #
The JTs have surprisingly good starting pitching (it shocks me that John Tudor was not an All-Star in his great 1985 campaign):

Mgr- Joe Torre

C-   Joe Torre
1B- Jason Thompson
2B- Johnny Temple
SS- Joe Tinker
3B- Jim Tabor
LF- Jason Tyner
CF- Jim Thorpe
RF- Jose Tartabull
DH- Jim Thome


C-   Jeff Torborg/JR Towles
U-   Jeff Treadway
OF-  Joe Taylor
OF-  Jim Traber


SP- Jesse Tannehill
SP- John Tudor
SP- Jack Taylor
SP- Jim Tobin
SP- Justin Thompson or John Thomson

RP- Julian Tavarez
RP- Jeff Tabaka
RP- Jeff Tam
RP- Jay Tibbs
RP- Josh Towers

Not quite good enough to play with the big boys, but good starting pitching and defence and quite a bit of pop has been known to take a team a long way.

Mike Green - Tuesday, October 21 2008 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#193483) #
The BHs (the Bad Hands?) have:

Mgr. Bucky Harris

C-   Brian Harper
1B- Bob Horner
2B- Billy Herman
SS- Bud Harrelson
3B- Bill Hall
LF- Brad Hawpe
CF- Billy Hamilton
RF- Bobby Higginson
DH-Butch Hobson


C- Bill Haselman
IF- Bucky Harris
OF- Billy Hatcher
UT- Buck Herzog


SP- Burt Hooton
SP- Bruce Hurst
SP- Bill Hallahan
SP- Billy Hoeft
SP- Bryan Edward "Moose" Haas

RP- Bryan Harvey
RP- Bill Henry
RP- Bobby Howry
RP- Brad Havens
RP- Bill Haas

This is a much better club than I would have expected.  The lineup really does not contain big names, but is just about perfect- Hamilton and Herman at the top of the order are great, you've got a  pretty good power core (too bad about Babe Herman) and some fine secondary talents like Brian Harper.  The starters were all good but not great, and the bullpen is very good. 

Big Bob Horner
stood on the hot corner
holding his baseball glove
he put in his thumb and pulled out a plum
and said "I'm a hungry man, love".

If Butch Hobson bobbled a ball, and could either throw late to 2nd to get the runner from first or late to first to get the batter, would that be scored a Hobson's choice?

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 22 2008 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#193501) #
The RGs are pretty good- Gedman, Roy Grimes, Gardenhire, Ricky Gutierrez and Rene Gonzales in the infield, Ralph Garr, Ron Gant and Rusty Greer in the outfield, Ryan Garko DHing, Robert Moses (Lefty) Grove, Guidry, Grimsley, Ruben Gomez in the rotation and Rich Gossage as the closer.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 22 2008 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#193503) #
Incidentally, the JMs (who dangordon alluded to at the beginning) are, to my mind, the best of the bunch:

Mgr- Joe McCarthy
Coaches- Joe Maddon, John McGraw, Jack McKeon

C-    Joe Mauer (** in waiting)
1B-  Johnny Mize**
2B-  Joe Morgan**
SS-  John McDonald
3B-  John McGraw (** as a manager, but his .466 career OBP is hard to miss)
LF-  Joe Medwick**
CF- Jerry Mumphrey*
RF- Jo-Jo Moore*
DH- John Mayberry*


Justin Morneau*, Jerry Moses (C), Jerry Morales* (OF), John Milner(OF), John (Bid) McPhee (IF)


SP- Jose Mendez**
SP- Juan Marichal**
SP- Joe McGinnity**
SP- Jim Maloney*
SP- Jack McDowell*

RP- Jose Mesa
RP- Jeff Montgomery
RP- Johnny Murphy
RP- Jamie Moyer
RP- Jon Matlack

Fabulous pitching and defence.  McGraw, Morgan, Medwick, Mize, Mauer and Mayberry at the top of the order is devastating.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 22 2008 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#193514) #

C-    Joe Mauer (** in waiting)

That's a tad ... premature. Sure looks like a nice bet now, but the only modern-day catcher on Mauer's "Most Similar through age 25" list is one Jason Kendall. So belay the induction ceremony just yet!

zeppelinkm - Wednesday, October 22 2008 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#193515) #

That to age comp with Kendall is excellent too. I hadn't realized how great a start to his career Jason had until this thread. Looked like a sure fire hall of fame bet himself early on.

Check it out:


22  130  .300/.372/.401  101
23  144  .294/.391/.434  114
24  149  .327/.411/.473  131
25  78     .332/.428/.511 136
26  152  .320/.412/.470  124

The guy also stole more then 90 bases during this time too, as a catcher! Admittedly he posted a .266/.335/.358 the next season and has been a shadow of his fast start ever since. He posted two big bounce back seasons at 29 and 30 but everything else has average at best.   Maybe he should have stayed with the Pirates...


22  131  .294/.372/.411  107
23  140  .347/.429/.507  144
24  109  .293/.382/.426  117
25  146  .328/.413/.451  137

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 22 2008 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#193516) #
Mauer's three most comparable are Bill Dickey, Mickey Cochrane and Kendall.  He's started off better than any of them.  A significantly positive W/K after 4 seasons at age 25 is a strong indicator of greatness.  Mauer has done it in the better league to boot, and he's a much better defender than Kendall was. 

We're still waiting for Mauer to put up a monster year, .350 with 30 homers and 100 walks, ie Mike Piazza with great defence, but I am betting that will happen within the next 4-5 years.  All that said, he could easily get hurt and turn in a Kendall-type prime.

zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 23 2008 @ 03:33 AM EDT (#193521) #

Oh what the heck, one more team. Not a powerhouse, but certainly not a group of pushovers. Fantastic outfield, strong top end of the rotation, this team would improve dramatically some better infielders.

The JD's

C - Jody Davis*
1B - Jack Doyle
2B - Jimmie Dykes* (.365 career OBP, 2282 games)
SS - Joe DeMaestri* (1121 career games... must have been some good defensively to play that long with a career .236/.274/.325 line)
3B - Jim Delahanty (1186 career games, career 122 OPS+)
OF - JD Drew
OF - Joe DiMaggio**
OF - Jermaine Dye*
DH - Johnny Damon*


Jay "Dizzy" Dean**
Joe Dobson*
John Denny (1983 NL Cy Young winner)
John Danks
Justin Duchscherer*


Jim Duffalo
Jean Dubuc
Joe Decker
Jim Deshaies
Jerry Dipoto


Juan Encarnacion OF
Jim Davenport* INF

Perhaps the next round of an all initial's team competition should exclude any team's starting with J.........

lexomatic - Friday, October 24 2008 @ 08:16 AM EDT (#193538) #
that's not a bad team. i've been still trying to find a better team.. procrastinating from schoolwork.
i was thinking the DW 40s would be the one..
but they have no middle infield
they could be a contender though with more strong infielders.
upgrades needed at C, 1B, 2B, SS

3b David Wright great start to his career
lf Dixie Walker
cf devon white.. great D
rf Dave winfield **

solid pitching staff - lots of lefties..
david wells L
dontrelle willis L
doc white L
dixie walker (a different one) R
dave wickersham R
don wilson R
Duane Ward R
dan wheeler R
donne wall R
david West L
david weathers R

what are the rules on nick-names and middle names?
dick (richard) williams would make a great HOF manager
dib (edwin dibrel) wiliams would at least be an acceptable SS offensively if he qualifies

definitely a good core for future greatness, too bad i can't think of anyone in the minors with those initials that might crack the roster. also a very strong jays connection.
Mike Green - Sunday, October 26 2008 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#193586) #
The JPs are pretty good:

C-     Jorge Posada
1B-   John Wesley "Boog" Powell
2B-   Jerry Priddy
SS-  Johnny Pesky
3B-  Jhonny Peralta
RF-  Jimmy Piersall
CF-  Juan Pierre
LF-  Jay Payton
DH- Joe Pepitone

Bench- Jim Pagliaroni (C), Jim Presley (1B-3B), Josh Phelps (RH bat), Jack Perconte (Util), Jose Pagan (IF)

SP-  Jim Palmer
SP-  Jake Peavy
SP-  Jack Pfeister
SP-  Johnny Podres
SP-  Jim Perry

RP- Jonathan Papelbon
RP- Joe Page
RP- J.J. Putz
RP- Juan Pizarro
RP- Joe Price

The pitching staff is great.  Pfeister was a fine pitcher during the Cub dynasty of the original aughts.  The rotation is solid top to bottom, and of course the three aces in the pen are easy to notice. 

The offence has a good shape.  Pesky and Priddy will get on base, Powell, Posada, Pepitone and Peralta form a nice power core and Piersall, Pierre and Payton will make contributions from the bottom of the order.

But, what will the team name be?  The Warrants?  Priddy had a few run-ins with law, and it might be safer to name them something like the Dirtbags in honour of the home nine's GM.

KL - Tuesday, October 28 2008 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#193603) #

I love Hall of Names. It's the perfect nerdy addition to any baseball website.


Mikey Cochrane**
Max Carey**
Miguel Cairo
Mike Cameron*
Miguel Cabrera*
Melky Cabrera*
Michael Cuddyer
Milt Cuyler

A bunch of outfielders and a pair of third basemen, in addition to a HOF catcher. I have no idea, other than Cairo, who would play middle infield, but with a Carey/Cochrane/Cabrera 2/3/4, it shouldn't matter much.

Mike Cuellar*
Matt Cain
Matt Clement*
Mort Cooper
Mark Clear

Matt Capps
Manny Corpas

Good staff.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 28 2008 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#193606) #

This team, of course, will be known as the Masters of Ceremony ...

You missed a Hall of Famer in Max Carey -- another outfielder, unfortunately!

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 28 2008 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#193607) #
And on second look, *I* missed Carey in your list. So, um, nevermind.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 28 2008 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#193617) #
The LB Weights (do they play the Band's The Weight in the late innings?) have more oomph than I would have guessed:

C-    Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra**
1B-  Lance Berkman*
2B-  Lou Bierbauer
SS-  Lou Boudreau**
3B-  Les Bell
LF-  Lou Brock**
CF- Lyman Bostock
RF- Larry Biitner
DH- Lu Blue


MI-  Larry Bowa*
UT- Lance Blankenship
UT- Larvell "Sugar Bear" Blanks
OF- Larry Bigbie
C-   Lou Berberet


SP-  Lew Burdette*
SP-  Lloyd Brown
SP-  Len Barker*
SP-  Lou Brissie
SP-  Larry Benton
RP- Larry Bradford
RP- Larry Bearnarth
RP- Lynn Brenton
RP- Lew Brockett
RP- Lorenzo Barcelo

Your batting order is Brock, Boudreau, Berra, Berkman, Bostock, Blue, Bell, Biitner and Bierbauer.  Everyone hits except Bierbauer and he's not bad for a second baseman.  The bench is solid.  The starting pitching is pretty good, but there is absolutely no relief.

In the AL East of 2008, this team scores 950 runs and allows 800, and wins 92.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 28 2008 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#193618) #
Lyman Bostock! What a tragedy. I am saddened every time I see his name and I wasn't even a Twins/Angels fan ...  he was becoming one of the truly best OF in the game when he was gunned down at the age of 28. I may remember him too postively -- I was only 12. The only positive of that whole situation was that it helped brace me less than a year later when Thurman Munson's plane crashed.

If I remember right, in his first year with the Angels after signing a then-huge seven-figure free agent deal, he hit about .125 for the first month and actually tried to return his salary check to the club. Youngsters out there, if you don't know the name Lyman Bostock, shake your head to the rueful refrain of "what might have been."

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#193619) #
It is true. Bostock was not really on a Hall of Fame track even at his best, but he was quite comparable to Ken Griffey Sr. (although he didn't run as well).  He might very well have gone on to a long successful career.  I don't remember the details except for his murder, but apparently he was a good guy.

To cheer you up, here's Mavis Staples singing "The Weight".
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#193620) #
One more thing.  The LB team is a real winner from the names side of things, if not on the scoreboard.  What are the odds that "Yogi" and "Sugar Bear" would be on the same club, with Lu Blue added for insurance?
KL - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#193622) #
The Rhyme Sayers

Ryne Sandberg** 2B
Ron Santo*(*) 3B
Roy Smalley* SS
Dick Stuart* 1B
Riggs Stephenson OF
Roy Schalk (manager too, naturally) C
Rusty Staub* OF
Reggie Sanders OF
Ruben Sierra* DH

Red Schoendienst** IF
Reggie Smith OF
Bob Schmidt* C
Red Shannon IF
Richie Sexson 1B
Roy Sievers OF

Rick Sutcliffe*
Bob Shaw*
Rip Sewell*
Bobby Shantz*
Bob Stanley*

Rafael Soriano
Rudy Seanez
Bob Scanlan
Ray Scarborough

Lineup has one HOF, six all-stars (a couple of them perennially), bench has a couple all-stars and a HOF. Pitching is between decent and good, with a Cy winner and an all-star rotation. I think this is the team to beat.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#193624) #

Great collection of talent, KL. The only hold in the lineup is the outfield defense -- I guess you'd have Sanders play CF? He was not a great outfielder, for all his speed, and playing next to Staub, there'd be a whole lotta "gappers" to worry about. And you might think about dropping Stanley from the rotation into the closer's role -- he had 132 career saves (and "just" 85 starts).

Oops, then again, Daniel Staub doesn't qualify for this team, but Reggie Smith is every bit the player Le Grande Orange was ...

KL - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#193626) #
I was so certain that Rusty was his actual given name. It didn't warrant baseballreferencing.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 29 2008 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#193630) #
The RBs are a force:

C-   Roger Bresnahan**
1B- Raymond (Rube) Bressler
2B- Ross Barnes (great player of the 1870s)
SS- Rick Burleson*
3B- Ray Boone*
LF- Ryan Braun
CF- Rocco Baldelli
RF- Roy (Beau) Bell*
DH- Ron Blomberg


Rod Barajas (C), Ron Belliard (2B-3B), Rafael Bournigal (IF), Russell Branyan (corner), Rick Bosetti (OF)


SP-  Rik Aalbert Blyleven* (should be **)
SP-  Ray Brown**
SP-  Ralph Branca*
SP-  Ray Burris
SP-  Rex Barney (!)
RP- Rod Beck*
RP- Rafael Betancourt
RP- Rich Bordi
RP- Ricky Bones
RP- Ron Bryant

You've got  2 guys who can get on base and run at the top of the order (Barnes and Bresnahan), a good power core and not one weak bat in the lineup.  On the pitching side, you've got an excellent top 2, a solid #3, and four interchangeable starters for the 4-5 slots, and a good closer and set-up man.  They'd have won 100 games in the AL East of 2008. 

zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 30 2008 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#193645) #

OK, so I guess I can pull out one more!

Just Kidding. .. Not..

The JoKer's:

C. Jason Kendall*
1B. Joe Kuhel*
2B. Jeff Kent*
SS. John "Buddy" Kerr
3B. Jerry Kenney
OF Jason Kubel
OF Joe Kelley**
OF John Kruk*
DH Jim Kelley (put up considerably above average numbers for a total of 215 games)


Jimmy Key* LHP
Jim Kaat* LHP
Jim Konstanty* RHP
Jerry Koosman* LHP
Jack Kralick* LHP


Jim Kern*
Jack Kramer*
Johnny Kucks*
Johnny Klippstein
Joe Kennedy


Johnny Kling* C
Jeff Keppinger (should start all games at SS versus LHP unless Buddy really destroys LHP)
Joe Knight OF (... one very fine season in 1890)

So... what do we have? A great starting rotation and a good bullpen. 3 good bench options. The big weak link on this team is at 3B.  If someone can find out if George John Kurowski (Better known as Whitey Kurowski) went by George or John  then he would be a massive upgrade to the tune of 3 - 5 wins I'd think, as he is an elite hitter and the guy we currently have in at 3B is... well not.

We should have a vote, who do you guys think win the most games in the 2008 AL East? Maybe rank all the teams from top to the bottom and put # of predicted wins next?

Mick Doherty - Thursday, October 30 2008 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#193648) #

Konstanty was one of the early great closers in baseball history -- an All-Star in '50, even, helping redefine the role. I think, with all due apologies to Jim Kern, that Konstanty is the closer and Kern sets him up. Kucks was an All-Star SP in '56, so he probably goes in the rotation -- ironically enought, Kucks and Konstanty were Yankee teammates that year.


zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 30 2008 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#193674) #

Well, seeing as how this thread will soon be bumped down to the infamous "2nd" page it will probably soon die. So, while it's still on page 1 I just wanted to say this topic was a lot of fun and was a great idea. I learned about a lot of ball players I had never even heard of and had fun doing so. Thanks!

zeppelinkm - Thursday, October 30 2008 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#193676) #

OK, this is the first team I built but never posted because I couldn't complete the roster... this team is missing a SS and a 3B and has two fantastic catchers so I have one of those guys DH'ing. Whomever is better defensively should start tho, obviously!

C - Terry Steinback*
1B - Tony Solaita, good hitter, short career
2B - Ted Sizemore, I hope he was good at defence.
SS -
3B -
DH - Ted Simmons* (was a C his whole career really)
OF - Tim Salmon
OF - Tris Speaker**
OF - Travis Snider


Tom Seaver**
Truett "Rip" Sewell
Todd Stottlemyre
Tom Sturdivant
Tully Sparks


Takashi Saito* closes for this team
Tim Stoddard
Tim Scott

Bench: Not much!

So, some obvious holes to fill. But a considerably above average rotation (1 legend, a legit number 2 and then 3 above average guys), a great closer and a couple of good relievers make the staff well above average. A lineup with 3 seriously good hitters( Speaker, Salmon, Simmons), 1 above average (Steinback), 1 guy who is at the least average and has the potential to be as good as any of these guys (Snider). They would score some runs, regardless of who you trotted out there at SS and 3B, but depth is an issue. Perhaps in a few years this team will be worth revisiting if we get some young guys with these initial's coming up!

Mike Green - Thursday, October 30 2008 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#193680) #
Tom Satriano played a fair bit of third base; Tommy Sheehan played a bit of short and Terry Shumpert would be a decent backup infielder.   Ted Savage would be a fair backup outfielder and Tim Spehr a generic backup catcher. 

Tom Seaton had three very good years as a starter in the early teens.  I'd move him into the rotation and Sturdivant to the pen.  Tom Seats is the subject of a good Leo Durocher/Branch Rickey story re-told in the original Bill James Historical Abstract.  Seats was a nervous kid pitching for the Dodgers, and to settle him down, manager Durocher gave him a drink (brandy?) before a game.  GM Rickey (aka "the Mahatma") found out about it and was apoplectic.  "You gave a man in uniform alcohol; you should be fired".  Durocher pointed out that there was a W column and an L column, and the manager's job was to put as many into the W column as possible.  Durocher stayed on,  but Seats never pitched again for the Dodgers.

Tanyon Sturtze is a candidate for the taxi squad (any TS team worth its salt should have one).  On a related note, Tony Suck posted a career OPS+ of 25, proving that you sometimes can judge a book by the cover.

Mike Green - Monday, November 03 2008 @ 08:15 PM EST (#193775) #
It occurs to me that Battersbox (myself included) unwittingly gave a swiftboatload of free publicity to John McCain with all the attention to the JM team.  Equal time should be accorded to the B & O Railroads:

Mgr- Bob O'Farrell

c-    Bob O'Farrell
1b-  Billy O'Brien
2b-  Brian Ostrosser
ss-  Billy Osterson
3b-  Bob Oliver
lf-     Ben Ogilvie
cf-    Bill O'Hara
rf-    Bill O'Neil
dh-  Barney Olson


Bruce Ogrodowski (c), Bob Oldis (c-3b),  [a little thin there]


sp-  Billy O'Dell
sp-  Bob Ojeda
sp-  Bob Owchinko
sp-  Bob Osborn
sp-  Bob O'Brien
rp-   Bryan Oelkers
rp-   Bill Oster
rp-   Bill Otey
rp-   Brian O'Connor

This club would need the luck of the Irish to win 50 games in the AL East of 2008 or to force a sixth game of a seven game series against the JMs.  Sometimes art does not imitate life.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 05 2008 @ 09:26 PM EST (#193860) #
The CM club is an interesting group of mainly lesser-known players:

Mgr.                    Connie Mack
Bench Coach   Charlie Manuel

C-    Clyde McCullough*
1B-  Cal McVey
2B-  Charles Solomon "Buddy" Myer * (arguably a **)
SS- Cass Michaels*
3B-  Carlos Martinez
LF-  Charlie Maxwell*
CF- Clyde "Deerfoot" Millan
RF- Carlos May*
DH- Carmelo Martinez or Candy Maldonado

the other of Carmelo and Candy, Charlie Moore, Craig Monroe, Chad Meyers and Mack (a third catcher)


SP- Christy Mathewson**
SP- Carl Mays
SP- Cliff Melton*
SP- Connie Marrero*
SP- Carl Morton

RP- Carlos Marmol
RP- Cla Meredith
RP- Clarence Mitchell
RP- Cal McLish
RP- Chuck McElroy

On offence, Milan and Myer will do a nice job at the top of the order of getting on base and scooting.  Maxwell, McVey, May and Maldonado would make an acceptable power core, and you would get some offence from the bottom of the order. 

The pitching staff is very, very good. Matty is a great; Mays probably would have been a HoFer had it not been for the Chapman beaning, and Melton, Marrero and Morton were all above average pitchers.  The bullpen is solid, with Marmol a pretty fair bet in the ace role. 

How many wins in the AL East of 2008?  Pitching a little better than the Jays, defence on the left side not as good.  They'd score 850 runs. In other words, they're a better club than the Rays of 08, so let's say 98.

zeppelinkm - Friday, November 07 2008 @ 10:09 AM EST (#193905) #

I see your C and raise to D!

The Dungeon Master's ! (Although I don't think this team would be anywheres close to the dungeon of any division in MLB!)

C  Damian Miller*
1B  Don Mattingly*
2B  Danny Murphy
SS  Denis Menke*
3B  Don Money*
RF  Dale Mitchell*
CF  Dale Murphy*
LF  Dwayne Murphy
DH  Don Mincher*


Dennis Martinez*
Dave McNally*
Denny McLain*
Daiske Matuzsaka
Dustin McGowan


Doc McMahon*
Don Mossi*
Donnie Moore*
Don McMahon*
Damaso Marte
Dyar Miller


Dave May* OF
Don Mueller* OF
Dave Magadan IF (.390 career OBP)
Doug Mientkiewicz IF
Doug Mirabelli C

An above average starting rotation, albeit not outstanding , but an excellent bullpen backs them up.

In the field, Menke and Murphy (Danny) form an above average offensive MI. Miller is adequate behind the dish as the starting C. A decent bench that is well balanced.  Mitchell, Murphy (Dwayne) and Mattingly get on base in the 1-2-3 spots and Murphy (the greatest D M) with some help from Mincher and occasionally Money, drive em' in. Probably a notch below the CM's? I like a team with a genuine ace in the rotation. 90 - 94 wins.

And if you could find a way to get these 9 guys onto the field and in the lineup together, would any other 9 score more runs, honestly? Doing some majorrrrrrrrrrrr stretching, here is a mock lineup:

Great Scott!

C   Geovany Soto
1B George "Mule" Suttles**
2B George "Snuffy" Stirnweiss*
SS Gary Sheffield*
3B George Scott*
RF George Sisler**
CF Grady Sizemore
LF George Silkirk* (.400 career OBP)
DH  Gus Suhr*

Not ba-a-a-a-a-d.  Too bad they have nobody to pitch for them... let anyone that would WANT to pitch with Gary Sheffield still manning short...

Mike Green - Friday, November 07 2008 @ 10:26 AM EST (#193906) #
Mule, Snuffy and Twinkletoes (George Selkirk) makes for an interesting Hall of Nicknames lineup.
Mick Doherty - Friday, November 07 2008 @ 12:19 PM EST (#193909) #

Those DMs are one of my favorite teams assembled yet, initially speaking -- alas, one of your pitchers must be eliminated as Henry "Doc" McMahon is an HM ... what an interesting "careeer" though ... one game started, a complete-game 14-hit, three-run victory, in a game in which he got two base hits (in five at-bats) himself> There must be SOME kind of backstory there! And no * there -- there wasn't even an All-Star Game been invented yet!

The DM's are stuffed with guys who'd make an All-Almost-HOF team -- Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, Dennis Martinez, Dave McNally ... but nobody with those DaMn initials has ever been inducted?

For the GS team, with Sheff and Scott manning the left side of the infield, Selkirk (note spelling, not Silkirk) better stay plenty loose to back them up!

zeppelinkm - Saturday, November 08 2008 @ 12:47 PM EST (#193928) #

Thanks for the background info/stories guys, they're easily one of my favorite aspects of these threads.

Here's one I thought was interesting... I was looking at putting together a B G team (trying to figure out if Bob's go under B or R, I settled on R and thus no B G team...) and came across this player, Billy Grabarkewitz. He had an absolutely fabulous rookie season (.299/.399/.454) and made the AS team playing in 156 games but then never played a full season again in the majors (never more then a half season, really). So I wanted to try and find out what happened - nothing too crazy, befuddled by injuries the next 2 years, he got traded and just never really rediscovered his form.

The interesting part was that the Dodgers in 1970 organized a write-in vote campaign for him to try and get him onto the all star team as a starter.  Thousands of fans simply wrote "Billy G" on the ballot, not knowing how to spell his name. Ultimately the vote fell short but he was added as a reserve.  Here's one quote I enjoyed reading: "Don't forget, fans, you spell it G-R-A-B ... uh, hang on a minute ..."

MIke, you had started putting together an R G team... their pitching staff just improved, and now they have some B. Gibson guy to take the hill after that Grove fellow...

Mike Green - Saturday, November 08 2008 @ 10:30 PM EST (#193930) #
CM, about the EM Eyes (I don't know if you can play the Sex Pistols during the late innings)

C-        Ed McFarland
1B-      Ed Morgan
2B-      Eddie Miller*
SS-     Ed McKean (arguable 19th century HoFer)
3B-     Eddie Mathews**
RF-     Edmund (Bing) Miller
CF-     Eddie Milner
LF-      Eli Marrero
DH-    Edgar Martinez* (may be a **)


Eddie Mayo*(2B- Eddie Miller can slide over top play short if McKean gets hurt), Eric McNair (UI), Eddie Malone (C), Earl McNeely (OF), Ed McDonald (3B)


SP- Ed Morris #1
SP- Earl Moore
SP- Ed Morris #2
SP- Eric Milton
SP- Ernie McAnally
RP- Ed Moyer
RP- Eddie Matheson
RP- Ed Mars
RP- Earl Mattingly
RP- Ernie Maun

McKean and Morgan would be pretty good at the top of the order, Martinez, Mathews and Bing Miller would be up-to-snuff in the 3-4-5 slots, but after that the offence peters out.  The club could really use one more bat in the outfield.  The starting pitching is flat, with only Ed Morris #1 being a good pitcher, but the infield defence is very good, and there's no better way to make average pitching look pretty good.  There is no relief at all.

The Eyes would score 830 runs, allow 740 and end up with 89 wins and tied for the third in the AL East of 2008. 

Mike Green - Saturday, November 08 2008 @ 10:48 PM EST (#193931) #
I missed an important EM.  Irish Meusel's first name was Emil.  There's your left-fielder and a fine #6 hitter.  The difference between Meusel and Marrero is probably 20 runs or 2 wins in a year. 
zeppelinkm - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 07:24 AM EST (#193935) #

Eddie Murray respectfully submits his resume to play 1B for the EM Eyes.

And oh, what a fine resume it is! You're hired!

zeppelinkm - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 10:37 AM EST (#193937) #

And if you put Eddie Murphy on the bench instead of Earl McNeely, the depth improves further. Now you've got Ed Morgan's bat on the bench as well. The "x" M teams would make for a pretty tight division!

I built an S & M team, but they are desparately lacking mid level talent to fill out the roster.

C  Sandy Martinez
1B  Sam Mele 97 OPS+
2B  Stu Martin* 86 OPS+ 722 games
SS  Steve Mesner (451 games, mostly at 3B, only 13 at SS...)
3B  Saturnino "Minnie" Minoso 130 OPS+ 1835 (Only played 116 games at 3B and was apparently a good outfielder, but we need him at 3B!)
OF  Sherry Magee 136 OPS+ 2087 games
OF  Stan Musial**
OF  Shane Mack 120 OPS+ 923 games

SP  Sal Maglie* 127 ERA+ 119-62
SP  Sam McDowell*
SP  Scott McGregor*
SP  Shaun Marcum  112 ERA+
SP  Silvio Martinez 95 ERA+, 87 career starts

BP  Stu Miller* 115 ERA+ 704 games
BP  Steve Mingori 126 ERA+ 385 games
BP  Sean Marshall 100 ERA+ 79 games so far, 119 and 116 ERA+ previous two seasons
BP  Steve McCatty

To bad Steven Rance Mulliniks doesn't qualify, because then we could shift Musial to 1B, Minoso to the OF and have a much improved lineup. They could also use Charles Solomon Myer at SS, but alas, thems the rules. This team has no DH and 3 significant holes in the lineup. Despite this, they still have a few very good offensive players and the pitching staff is no group of pushovers from top to bottom.

Mick Doherty - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 01:57 PM EST (#193940) #
Hm, what do you name that S&M team? The Painkillers?
CeeBee - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 02:59 PM EST (#193941) #

The R C's, better known as the remotes.

C- Roy Campanella

1B- Roger Connor

2B- Rod Carew

3B- Ron Cey

SS- Ray Chapman

RF- Rocky Colavito

CF- Roberto Clemente

LF- Rico Carty

Subs - Rick Cerone, Robinson Cano, Royce Clayton, Ron Clark, Roy Cullenbine, Roger Cedeno, Ray Coleman

SP- Roger Clemens, Ray Collins, Reggie Cleveland, Ray Caldwell, Ray Culp

RP- Rheal Cormier, Rick Camp, Ray Corbin, Randy Choate, Roger Craig

Pretty good offense and a fairly good rotation but the bullpen is the weak link. Will score lots of runs and give up a lot too.

Mick Doherty - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 04:49 PM EST (#193943) #

That is a GREAT starting lineup for the RC squad. I think I'd want to play Cullenbine in LF so you get hide Carty's glove at DH. And before anyone challenges Rocky Colavito on the No Nicknames Rule, dude's given first name was "Rocco." So there!

Somebody do an MP team so we can have an RC/MP matchup and play the game on horseback! Mike Piazze will be their first Hall of Famer in a few years ...

CeeBee - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 06:15 PM EST (#193947) #
Roger Cedeno could also be dropped into center field,  Clemente moved back to right and Rocco Colavito to left which would improve the speed and defense. Yeah, I looked up Rocky before I posted the lineup because I was thinking he'd probably have some other Italian first name like Guiseppe or Fransisco.
Mike Green - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 08:21 PM EST (#193957) #
The MPs are ridiculously pitching heavy- Milt Pappas, Mel Parnell, Mark Prior, Monte Pearson and Mark Portugal would make 5 above-average starters, and there is a decent supporting case although no lights-out ace reliever.  The offence consists of Piazza, Pags, Mitchell Page and that's it. 

I can't believe that I missed Eddie Murray for the EMs.  Murray, Mathews and Edgar is about as good a 1-2-3 punch that you'll see on one of these clubs.

Mike Green - Sunday, November 09 2008 @ 09:38 PM EST (#193961) #
The CK Dandies line up like this:

C-   Clyde Kluttz (as long as Bob Walk isn't pitching, the club should be OK)
1B- Casey Kotchman
2B- Chuck Knoblauch*
SS- Clem Koshorek
3B- Corey Koskie
LF- Chuck Klein**
CF- Charles Chick King
RF- Charlie Keller*
DH- Craig Kusick

Bench- Chad Kreuter (C), Charlie Kress (1B), Charlie Kelly (SS-3B), Charlie Kalbfas (OF)...very thin


SP- Charles Silver King
SP- Clayton Kershaw
SP- Clay Kirby
SP- Chris Knapp
SP- Charlie Kerfeld
RP- Clyde King
RP- Curtis King
RP- Cal Koonce
RP- Chad Kimsey
RP- Curt Kaufman

They'd score 750 runs and allow 825 in the AL East of 2008.  75 wins.

Mike Green - Monday, November 10 2008 @ 10:30 AM EST (#193970) #
The BWs are very good:

C-    Butch Wynegar
1B-  Bill White*
2B-  Burgess Whitehead*
SS-  Bobby Wallace**
3B-  Brandon Wood
LF-  Billy Williams**
CF- Bernie Williams
RF- "Bad Medicine" Brad Wilkerson
DH- Bob Watson

Bench- Bill Wilson (C), Bill Wilson (OF), Brad Wellman (UI), Bill Wambsganns (UI)


SP- Brandon Webb*
SP- Bob Welch*
SP- Bill Walker*
SP- Bob Wicker
SP- Bill Wegman
RP- Billy Wagner*
RP- Bob Wickman*
RP- Ben Weber
RP- Brian Wilson
RP- Bill Wight

In the "Did you know?" section, Bobby Wallace not only had an excellent glove and hit well, but like Ruth, had a promising career as a pitcher before, with 400 innings and a career ERA+ of 126. 

This club has an excellent defence, solid pitching all the way around and plenty of pop.  There is no natural leadoff hitter, but a young Brad Wilkerson would be OK there. At this point, Brad Wellman would get most of the work at third while the BWs wait for Brandon Wood to hit. 

Mick Doherty - Monday, November 10 2008 @ 10:43 AM EST (#193971) #
Alas, Harold Wynegar is not eligible to catch for this otherwise pretty decent squad ...
Mike Green - Monday, November 10 2008 @ 10:55 AM EST (#193973) #
Is "Butch" a nickname?  I guess so.

On a related note, the SM club should be called "the Big Sticks" and the team motto should be "We take managerial competence seriously".

CeeBee - Monday, November 10 2008 @ 03:54 PM EST (#193990) #

The AC-DC teams... rock and roll electrically though neither of these teams will so much as cause a fire or put on much of a show

C -  Al Campanis              Del Crandall

1B- Archi Cianfrocco         Dolph Camilli

2B- Asdrubal Cabrera      Dave Cash

3B- Alex Cintron                Darnell Coles

SS- Alex Cora                    Dave Concepcion

OF- Al Cowens                  Dave Collins

OF- Allan (Dusty) Cook    Duff Cooley

OF- Alex Cole                    Doug Clemens

DH- Allie Clark                  Danny Cater

Subs- Alberto Castillo, Art Croft, Alexi Casilla, Andujar Cedeno,Adam Comorosky, Andy Cohen for the AC's

            Doug Camilli, Dave Campbell, Domingo Cedeno, Dave Chalk, Dave Clark, Darell Chaney for the DC's

Pitchers- Aaron Cook. Alvin Crowder. Andy Coakly, Allan Collamore Al Cicotte,Alex Carrasquel, Archie Corbin, Al Corwin

Dean Chance, David Cone, Danny Cox, Don Cardwell, Daniel Cabrera, David Clyde, Dan Casey,D.J. Carrasco, Dennis Cook and Doug Capilla

The DC's should win the matchup between these two teams but not much else  and even combining the teams would not a contender make.


Mick Doherty - Monday, November 10 2008 @ 04:36 PM EST (#193996) #
The DCs might steal 300 bases -- they'd still only win 70 games, but they'll do it fast.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 11 2008 @ 08:36 PM EST (#194040) #
The GW Bushes:

C-    Gil Whitehouse
1B-  Greg Walker
2B-  George Wright**
SS-  Glenn Wright
3B-  John Cusack aka George Buck Weaver
LF-  Gene Woodling
CF- Gerald Gee Walker
RF- Gary Ward
DH- George Wood

Bench- Glenn Wilson (OF), George Wrigley (IF), George Possum Whithead (OF),  George Whiteman (OF)


SP- George Rube Waddell**
SP- George Hooks Wiltse
SP- Gus Doc White
SP- George Rube Walberg
SP- Gregory Woody Williams
RP- Gabe White
RP- Gus Weyhing
RP- George Stump Wiedman
RP- Gary Wagner
RP- Gary Wayne

Excellent rotation.  Mediocre relief.  A bunch of good, but not great hitters, and medium range pop only.  90 wins in the 2008 AL East.  Gil Whitehouse as the catcher for the GW Bushes seems like a natural even if he wasn't.

zeppelinkm - Tuesday, November 11 2008 @ 10:53 PM EST (#194045) #

The JH's have showed up, and these guys can play some ball.

 C  Jim Hegan* (5 time AS)
1B  Joe "Moon" Harris (.317/.404/.472)
2B  Jose Hernandez*
SS  JJ Hardy*
3B  Jim Ray Hart*
OF  Josh Hamilton*
OF  Jimmie Hall*
OF  Jeff Heath* (.293/.370/.509)
DH  Johnny Hopp*

SP  Jesse Haines** RHP
SP  James "Catfish" Hunter** RHP
SP  Joe Horlen* RHP
SP  Jack Harshman LHP (69-65, 109 ERA+)
SP  Joey Hamilton (74-73 career 94 ERA+) or Jim Hardin (43-32 career 105 ERA+) or Joe Hatten (65-49, career 101 ERA+)

BP  John Hiller* LHP
BP  Joe Hoerner* LHP
BP  Joe Haynes*  RHP
BP  Jay Howell*  RHP
BP  Joe Heving   RHP

INF John Hummel (1161 games, career 102 OPS+, could play 1B/2B/SS/OF)
OF  Jeremy Hermida
OF  Jeffrey Hammonds*
OF  Jim Hickman*
 C  Jack Hiatt

Harris, Heath, Hamilton, Hart, Hardy make a great 2-3-4-5-6 and with help from Hall and Hopp would generate a lot of runs. Hopp leads off, Hall bats 7th. Hernandez isn't a black hole. Hegan starts, as 5 AS games will guarentee for just about anyone, but Hiatt was a better hitter so he makes a nice 2nd option for the C position. However, they don't need to score too many runs with a rotation fronted by Haines and Hunter (although weak in the #5 spot) backed by an outstanding bullpen. When Hermida breaks through you can have him DH and move Hopp onto the bench (or Hall). I really like how the entire lineup can handle the bat well, and there is a good mixture of OBP oriented guys and SLG oriented guys.

Anyone know if this is the optimal way to deploy these troops defensively? Should Hardy and Hernandez swap? And who'd be the best #5 guy for the rotation?

And if you remember Tony Suck, he of the career OPS+ of 25, well I'd like to introduce you to his good buddy Jack Doolittle Hardy who had a whopping 55 AB and posted a career 29 OPS+.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 12 2008 @ 09:47 AM EST (#194049) #
You could try something innovative out of the #5 slot.  Hardin is a right-hander; Hatten is a left-hander.  You could have them share a start every 5 days, and have them throw an inning or two in the middle.  You would choose your nominal starter depending on the lean of the opposing team. 

Haines and Hunter are two of the weakest Hall of Fame pitchers ever.  Both had the perfect storm supporting them- great clubs with good defences and (in Hunter's case) favourable pitching environments. Rube Marquard and Herb Pennock would be two more of this type.  There is quite a gap between these guys and legitimately great pitchers like Luis Tiant and Tommy John.  

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, November 12 2008 @ 11:28 AM EST (#194055) #
Memories of childhood heroes do fade, don't they? I would have bet my house that John Hiller was right-handed. Alas, in his great year(s) I was but six or seven, so it is apparently all a blur.
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 12 2008 @ 04:43 PM EST (#194070) #
The WC Handies

C-     Walker Cooper*
1B-   Will Clark*
2B-   Wayne Causey
SS-   Wil Cordero*
3B-   William Wid Conroy
LF-   Willie Crawford
CF-   Walt Cruise
RF-   Warren Cromartie
DH-  Wes Covington

Bench- William Boileryard Clark (C), Warren Hick Carpenter (3B), William Coon (UI),  Wes Chamberlain (OF), William Bunk Cogalton (OF)

SP-  William Candy Cummings**
SP-  Wilber Cooper (3500 innings, 116 ERA+)
SP-  William Watty Clark (1700 innings, 112 ERA+)
SP-  William Dad Clarke
SP-  Walter Clarkson
RP-  Walter Rip Coleman
RP-  Walker Cress
RP-  Walt Craddock
RP-  Will Cunnane
RP-  Wilfred Causey

Things could have been better; Roger Clemens' full name is William Roger Clemens.  If he had just gone by Will or Rocket, that would have been OK.  Nothing against the name "Roger", but...Walker Cooper was the brother of teammate Mort Cooper; I wonder if there have been other fraternal batterymates.  Cooper didn't get a real shot until he was 27, with the Cards preferring to give Mickey Owen and Gus Mancuso chances.  I wonder what was up with that.  Cromartie was a favourite of mine from the Expo years. 

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, November 12 2008 @ 05:18 PM EST (#194071) #

The WC Handies

I suppose they play in a ballpark called WC Fields?

Mike Green - Thursday, November 13 2008 @ 09:54 PM EST (#194106) #
In honour of Jordan Furlong, the JFs:

C-   Joe Ferguson
1B- Jimmie Foxx**
2B- Julio Franco* (** in our hearts)
SS- Jim Fregosi*
3B- Jim Finegan*
LF- John Tito Francona
CF- Johnny Frederick
RF- John Buck Freeman
DH- Jack Fournier

John Flaherty (c), Jeff Francoeur (OF), Junior Felix (OF), Jim Fogarty (UI), Jeff Frye (3B) or Joe Foy (3B)

SP-  Jeff Fassero
SP-  Jeff Francis
SP-  Jesse Flores (970 IP, 112 ERA+)
SP-  Joe Finneran
SP-  Josh Fogg
RP-  John Franco
RP-  Jason Frasor
RP-  Jim Faulkner
RP-  John Farrell
RP-  John Frascatore

They'd have easily the best offence in the AL East of 2008, and might score 1000 runs, but they'd give up 820 or so.  Ferguson would only play 2/3 of the time, but Foxx can slip in behind the plate with Fournier taking over at first base, Freeman to DH and Francoeur in RF.  Fournier is the Dazzy Vance of position players; he didn't really play until he was 30, but he was a great, great player for 8 years after that. 

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