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Marc Rzepczynski made his best rehab start of the year last night, and two of the affiliates won last night. I won't tell you which ones though! Unless, you know, you read the article where we list the scores and describe what happened in the games.

Fresno 4 at Las Vegas 8

Marc Rzepczynski made his best start of the year (which isn't saying much at this point) but he only allowed 1 run and went 6, loweing his ERA to under 13. He allowed 4 hits, walked 3 and struck out 4. The game only became close in the 9th, when Jesse Carlson allowed a bases loaded double and then a single before getting lifted for Jeremy Accardo, who promptly got Eugenio Velez to ground out to end the game, all while picking up the save. Prior to that the 51's offense did some damage, as Chris Aguila, Brian Dopirak, Jorge Padilla and Luis Figueroa had two hits apiece, while Brad Emaus led the way with 3, including 2 doubles and 2 RBI. Chris Lubanski also chipped in with a 2 run home run, while Adam Calderone had a run and a hit and scored twice. Brett Wallace had the day off.

New Hampshire 7 at Reading 12

This one was not pretty folks. Making his second AA start, Chuck Huggins got absolutely tagged by the Phillies' affiliate. He gave up 9 runs on 9 hits, 4 of which left the yard. He also walked 2 and whiffed 3. Danny Farquhar also struggled in relief, walking 3 and allowing 3 runs to plate, pushing a small deficit out of reach late. The Fisher Cats did chip in with 3 homers of their own, as David Cooper, Danny Perales and Shawn Bowman all went deep. Two runners were on for Bowman's shot in the top of the fist; he would later drive in another run with a double. Shortstop Luis Sanchez went 3 for 4 to raise his average to .182, while Manny Mayorson had a single and two walks.

Dunedin 4 at Fort Myers 0

The D-Jays outhit the Miracles 10-3 and outscored them 4-0, though the game was close until Dunedin broke things open in the 6th on doubles by Travis d'Arnaud and John Tolisano and singles by John Talley and Welinton Ramirez (not in that order) to put them up 3-0. Non-prospect Chad Beck was the star in this one though, as he pitched 5 scoreless innings of 1 hit ball. His K/BB rate was 2/2 though, and more of hits outs came in the air than on the ground. A parade of relievers combined for 4 shutout innings in relief; Alan Farina struck out the side in the 8th, and Matthew Daly K'd two in the 9th. John Tolisano was the offensive hero, going 3 for 4 with a double and a home run. Tyler Pastronicky, Travis d'Arnaud and Welinton Ramirez each had two hits, Michael McDade walked twice and John Talley walked and singled. Adeiny Hechavarria's stuggles continue though; he was 0-4 and hitless in his last 12 at bats.

Cedar Rapids 11 at Lansing 5

This one was over before it started, as Cedar Rapids scored 5 in the first, 1 in the second and 4 in the third. 2009 16th round draftee Dave Sever took the entire hit, going 2+ innings, though things weren't really his fault. He allowed 9 runs, only 1 of which was earned, on 8 hits, as the Lugnuts made 5 errors in this one.  In the first the leadoff runner walked and then Sever loaded the bases before striking out the next two batters. Unfortunately he would give up 2 singles and a double before getting the 3rd out. In the 3rd the first batter also reached on an error before the next two batters reached base to load them up; reliever Scott Gracey then had another ball booted behind him, followed by a flyout, sac fly, single, another error, a walk and a groundout. The Lugnuts would get on the board in the 4th, but by this point they were down 10 and it was too late. Gracey pitched 3 innings relief allowing 1 unearned run, while Casey Beck also pitched 3 scoreless innings, striking out 2. Kenny Wilson and A.J. Jiminez (DHing tonight) each had 2 hits, while Jiminez also had 2 walks. Mark Sobolewski, Sean Ochinko and Kevin Nolan each had a hit and a walk.

DSL Blue Jays at DSL Braves - Postponed

3 Stars!

3rd Star: Brad Emaus - 3/4 2 2B, 2 RBI, R

Second Star: Chad Beck - 5 IP 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 2 KK

Fist Star: John Tolisano - 3/4 HR, 2B, RBI, 2 R

Hey, Zep Didn't Completely Suck Today | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
John Northey - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#216174) #
One has to worry a bit about the wildness shown at the high minors by the pitchers.

AAA: 4.2 BB per 9 IP vs 6.6 K/9
AA: 4.0 BB per 9 IP vs 7.4 K/9

Given how walks kill you, especially in the PCL, this is a major issue. It is worth noting that in AAA the only pitchers below 2 for BB/9 are guys who've been in the majors - Carlson/Litsch/Cecil/Roenicke. 2 more are below 3 - Accardo & Register. The 6 worst are 28+ years old but includes Tallet & Purcey (worst with over 2 IP).

In AA we see Trystan Magnuson & Boomer Potts sub 2 (plus Uviedo in 1 game) but plenty of ugly figures too.

Guess the AA/AAA pitching coaches need to hand these kids a map of the strike zone.
Mike Green - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#216176) #
Jimenez is repeating the Midwest League, and has made huge strides most notably in the W/K department.  He is ready for the FSL, and there is a line of natural promotions that could take place anytime within the next month. If the Jays draft a catcher early out of college and sign him early, they could move Jeroloman, D'Arnaud, and Jimenez up and start Carlos Perez in Lansing. 
timpinder - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#216177) #
I'm glad to see Emaus playing 3B in Vegas.  Hill blocks him at 2B and I don't see the Jays having many other options at 3B once Encarnacion departs after 2011.
ayjackson - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#216181) #

Is Jaspe a legit catcher?  If I recall, he is our juicer and was really raking before he got caught.  He seems to be raking at AA now too.

China fan - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#216187) #

 ....I don't see the Jays having many other options at 3B once Encarnacion departs after 2011....

Encarnacion's contract ($7.6 million over 2 years) actually expires at the end of this season, and I doubt he'll be back in 2011.  That's why I'm watching Emaus and Bowman with such interest.   Bautista, of course, could play 3B next season, but he might be needed somewhere else -- the outfield, or maybe even 1B if Wallace is not ready yet.

Moe - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#216188) #
Encarnacion has one more year of arb. I doubt they'll get a good offer for him that they'd consider moving him. He'll be here next year.

Law has a new mock draft up: he has the Jays taking Colon. His take: "Could be Choice if he gets here or O'Conner. I'm hearing it's unlikely they do a prep arm here. It's pretty funny that Oakland and Toronto are on the same three guys. Just like old times!"
Chuck - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#216189) #

Unless some performance cratering takes place and Lewis and Bautista suddenly no longer find themselves in the 2011 plans, I would imagine that the outfield will be Lewis/Wells/Snider with Bautista taking over at 3B.

In fact, I would anticipate a return to this configuration once Snider returns from injury. Encarnacion did seem to buy himself some time with his homerun flurry in Arizona, but given his demise since, I'd say that he'll be the odd man out, scrambling for at-bats.

The legitimate concerns about Wallace (I am one of the few around here not terribly bullish on him) do raise an interesting question. What is plan B in 2011 if Wallace is not deemed major league-ready to start the season? After two seasons in AAA, will the Jays just force the issue and play him regardless?

Moe - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#216190) #
Some more info for non-insiders:

He has J. Sale, Whitson, and Choice go in that order right before the Jays.

I found his comment on Whitson interesting: He thinks if Whitson doesn't go at 9, he will fall a lot. I'd find that disappointing. I really hope the Jays would take him over O'Conner.
John Northey - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#216191) #
I suspect plan B is Lind to 1B and opening up DH for whoever.

Lubanski is hitting 304/355/613 in AAA, Adam Loewen could be an option (either DH or RF with Snider to DH) as he is up to 288/384/494 and has to be either in the majors or exposed to other teams this winter. There are always hitters available who cannot field each winter too.

It is worth noting that other prospects for 1B/DH have fallen off - David Cooper hitting 219/289/383 in AA, Brian Dopirak down to 241/263/387 in AAA.

Basically, finding someone to cover 1B or DH should not be an issue for a decent GM (yes, I remember the JP nightmares).
jerjapan - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#216193) #

Who is Danny Perales?  Unremarkable minor league numbers, even this year, had me questioning the promotion, but he's off to a hot start in AA ...

As for the lack of control in Vegas, is this an issue with the pitchers themselves, or is it a byproduct of the fine hitting environment? 

Mike Green - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#216194) #
I can hear a voice from way down south whispering "Plan MM". 

The strange part of seeing Lind as Plan B is that the club did run out a lineup this year with Ruiz playing first and Lind DHing. It seemed to me that this was pretty strong evidence that the club had given up on the idea of Lind being a first baseman.  It was only once, I guess.

Who knows?  Maybe Plan B turns out to be Lyle Overbay...

Chuck - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#216195) #

I suspect plan B is Lind to 1B

At this point, I can envision Lind not logging a single inning at first base over his entire career.

China fan - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#216196) #
I agree with Mike that Adam Lind is unlikely to be the solution at 1B next season, even temporarily.  Year by year, Lind is increasingly being slotted at DH for a higher percentage of his games.  In 2007 and 2008, he was primarily an outfielder, rather than a DH.  But in 2009, he was at DH for two-thirds of his games.  And this year, he has been the DH for about 80 per cent of his games (42 of 51 games).  I'd say the trendline is a pretty clear indication of how the Jays assess him.  If the Jays can't find any place for Lind aside from DH in a rebuilding year, they're not exactly preparing him for a non-DH role next season.  And 1B would be even riskier than LF, I would think, given that he hasn't played at that position for many years.   Randy Ruiz at least had 432 games of experience at 1B in the minors.   Lind has a grand total of exactly 1 game at 1B in his entire professional career.  I know that some people think that 1B is an easy position to play, but even someone like Wallace is getting some months of minor-league experience at 1B before he's considered a candidate to play the position in the majors.  Lind has basically no professional experience at all at 1B.  To throw him into that position next year might be quite risky.
China fan - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#216197) #
Or, what Chuck said, in much less verbose fashion.
MatO - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#216198) #

Who is Danny Perales?

With 6 minor league teams (not counting the DSL team), the Jays need 150+ players to fill out the rosters.  Of those 150, at most, there are 30-40 real prospects.  The rest are there so that the 30-40 have full teams to play on.  Perales is one of the "rest".  Where he plays has more to do with need than performance. 

Sano - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#216199) #
I wouldn't mind the Jays giving Lind some sort of trial in next ST at 1B.  It seems that there really isn't a lot to lose with him learning another position and giving the club another option should Wallace not work out.
Gerry - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#216200) #

OK, pop quiz, small sample size format.

We will look at OPS over the last ten games for some New Hampshire hitters.

Player A: 1155

Player B: 1154

Player C: 986

Player D: 983

All four players have been hot, even a 983 OPS is good in the Eastern League.

So who has been hot in New Hampshire?

Shawn Bowman has been really hot, he has been on a tear recently and looks almost ready for AAA.  Bowman is player B, he has hit .400 over his last 10 games with three home runs.  His full season OPS in AA is 951.

Brian Jeroloman has had a good 2010, his season OPS is 1005 and his OPS in April and May was 1001 and 990 so he is keeping up his productivity.   But Jeroloman has been a little bit cooler over his last ten games and he is player D.

Adam Loewen has been hitting well recently.  His OPS was 721 in April, OK but not great.  In May he moved that up to 881 and he has been the hottest over the last ten days.  Loewen is player A.  His June OPS is 1500.

So who is player C?  Player C's OPS in April was 632 and in May 665.  But over the last ten days he has player better.  David Cooper is player C.  He is hitting just .229 over the last ten games but he has 4 walks for a .300 OBP.  Five of his eight hits have been home runs and six have been for extra bases.  So while his OPS is excellent it is high because of walks and home runs.

And that brings me to BABIP.  The major league average is around .300 while elite hitters are around .350 - .360.  Bowman and Loewen, at .374 and .392 respectively, are on the high side but not way out of line.  Jeroloman is still over 500 at .506.  I have been saying for a while that it can't stay that high but he is proving me wrong.

Cooper's BABIP is only .260.  He doesn't strike out much but until recently he doesn't get good wood on the ball either.  Even though his OPS is high he hasn't yet shown an ability to hit for average.

uglyone - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#216201) #

Not to say that there aren't serious concerns about our 3B position going forward, but I just have to say that it's kind of funny that we are so worked up about it, given what our organizational third basemen are doing so far this year.

  • J.Bautista (29, MLB): 190ab, 16hr, 42rbi, .247/.370/. 584/.954 (1st in AL 3B OPS)
  • E.Encarnacion (27, MLB): 79ab, 7hr, 18rbi, .203/.283/.519/.802 (6th in AL 3B OPS)
  • J.Hoffpauir (27, AAA): 219ab, 8hr, 37rbi, .332/.385/.536/.921
  • B.Emaus (24, AAA/AA): 149ab, 6hr, 30rbi, .275/.396/.456/.852
  • S.Bowman (25, AA/A+): 148ab, 6hr, 21rbi, .331/.414/.561/.975
  • M.Sobolewski (23, A): 149ab, 3hr, 22rbi, .315/.344/.470/.814

Not bad for a supposed "black hole" in the organization.

Sano - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#216202) #
@uglyone- I think that the emergence of Bautista has caught everyone by surprise.  He also has never kept this level of production up for a season, so really his stats should have an asterisk by them.

With regards to the others you list, Hoffpaur is a AAAA player.  Yes, sentimentally we'd like to think he could hack it at the MLB level, but at this point should not be relied on.  Sobo's at A so a long way off and not exactly raking.  Bowman's new the organization so again stats should be taken with a grain of salt.  Emaus, well, he just strikes me as a placeholder.  I would love it for him to turn into an above average thirdbaseman, but I'm not holding my breath.  A few weeks at AAA should illuminate his potential.

So 'black hole' talk, overblown yes.  Is it a position which we have future above average MLB players at?  Very unsure.

Mike Green - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#216203) #
Jeroloman has absolutely destroyed RHP so far this year, with an even W/K and lots of pop, but has been overmatched against LHP. It seems pretty clear to me that he isn't going to be an everyday catcher in the major leagues, but I don't know what the downside would be to finding out whether he and Arencibia would make a serviceable platoon for a couple of years while the younger catchers develop.  That would presumably start in Las Vegas.
uglyone - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#216204) #

no doubt. big question marks everywhere there. not one clear candidate to be a dependable 3B going forward as of yet.

still thought it was funny that for a team with this black hole at 3rd, that has to be the best group of third basemen so far this year in any organization...and probably by a good margin.

92-93 - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#216205) #

Encarnacion has one more year of arb. I doubt they'll get a good offer for him that they'd consider moving him. He'll be here next year.

He isn't worth the contract he'd earn in arbitration, so I hope he isn't here next year. He isn't good enough to be a 6m regular and likely wouldn't take a pay cut to be a utility player off the bench.

The strange part of seeing Lind as Plan B is that the club did run out a lineup this year with Ruiz playing first and Lind DHing. It seemed to me that this was pretty strong evidence that the club had given up on the idea of Lind being a first baseman.  It was only once, I guess.

It's unfair to say the club has given up on the idea when there's a placeholder manager making those decisions. What is Anthopolous supposed to do, call Clarence after the game and say - "Lind should be playing 1B in that scenario, not Ruiz"? We all know that isn't even remotely close to a bone worth picking when it comes to Clarence's roster decisions.

ayjackson - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#216206) #

It's unfair to say the club has given up on the idea when there's a placeholder manager making those decisions.

If you think Cito's calling the shots, you haven't been paying attention.  It seems on numerous occasions that Gaston, AA and Lacava meet to make decisions like this.  Lind at 1B seems to be ancient history.

Mike Green - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#216208) #
Well, the club didn't exactly rush to give Lind a chance at playing first base during the pre-Gaston years either, even in a fill-in role.   I suppose they could change gears now. 
uglyone - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#216209) #

I think people are overreacting a wee bit to Wallace's first slump of the year.  And that comment about his power being due to vegas is a bit off considering he had the same slg in sacramento last year.

He'll be our 1B next year.

 

92-93 - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#216210) #

If you think Cito's calling the shots, you haven't been paying attention.  It seems on numerous occasions that Gaston, AA and Lacava meet to make decisions like this.  Lind at 1B seems to be ancient history

AA and TL have zero say on who Clarence pencils into the lineup card on a nightly basis, and where. I don't need to watch every pitch (which I coincidentally have anyway) to realize that. If Ruiz had played first 15x and Lind 0, then maybe that claim would be valid. One game? No.

Well, the club didn't exactly rush to give Lind a chance at playing first base during the pre-Gaston years either, even in a fill-in role.

That has more to do with roster construction than Lind's ability. The team never had a viable LFer until Lewis arrived, and Millar was around to play 1B on the days Overbay wasn't playing last year. In 2008 Overbay played basically every day, and in 2007 you had Reed Johnson as your other option in LF, somebody who can't hit RHP.

I'm not even saying I want Lind to play 1B - I don't. I would have preferred if he was going to be the everyday LF before Lewis arrived, eventually rendering that point moot. I'd much rather sacrifice D in LF than at 1B.

ayjackson - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#216212) #

It's an organizational decision to play Lind at 1B because he hasn't played there since a few games in college five or six years ago.  It's not about just pencilling him into the lineup.  I appreciate your comments here but I don't think you're being genuine on this point.  They considered sending Lind to instructionals last year to teach him 1B and opted against it.  They also opted against giving him innings at first this spring.  It's the organization that's decided he won't be a first baseman, not Cito.  Maybe they know something we don't, like he's no good there.

92-93 - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#216215) #

Those points are all very fair, if true. They weren't what I was responding to though.

There might be a bigger issue at play here, one that was discussed prior to the season. I'm not enthusiastic about a scouting team that decides Lind CAN NOT play 1B and that Wallace has no long-term potential at 3B (where his bat would play much better) at the same time as believing Edwin Encarnacion has the defensive ability to be an everyday 3B.

ayjackson - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#216216) #
I think it has to do with the philosophy that you have to be a plus defender first.  I think the Jays are targeting hitters that can be at least an average defender at a position.  I don't think they see Wallace as average at third and Lind as average at 1B (or OF), but they did believe Wallace could be an average to plus defensive first baseman.
Ron - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#216217) #
Jeroloman must be wondering what else he has to do to get promoted to Vegas. The big knock on Jeroloman was that he had no power but that has changed this season. There’s no reason Jeroloman and Arenecibia can’t share catching/DH duties in Vegas. If this were to happen, Chavez would be demoted or released and Dopirak would get his AB’s reduced. The Jays long term catching situation is fuzzy and Jeroloman isn’t getting any younger. Let’s find out what he can do against a better level of competition.

Hechavarria is nearing 100 PA’s and he has 1 walk. A 21 year old should be displaying much better strike zone discipline than this. Even if he was performing well in all other areas, I wouldn’t promote him to AA unless he vastly improves in this area.

Chuck - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#216220) #

at the same time as believing Edwin Encarnacion has the defensive ability to be an everyday 3B.

I don't think this is the case. The Jays were forced to take Encarnacion back in the Rolen trade, so are basically stuck with him until his contract expires. He had some success in Cincinnati and he's not exactly in anyone's way here (save for Babe Bautista, once Snider returns) so the team has nothing to lose by playing him.

If they offer him arbitration after this season, that will be a sign that they consider him a viable everyday third baseman. For now, he's just a dude they are stuck with and are kicking the tires on.

rtcaino - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#216221) #
Jeroloman has absolutely destroyed RHP so far this year, with an even W/K and lots of pop, but has been overmatched against LHP. It seems pretty clear to me that he isn't going to be an everyday catcher in the major leagues,

I'm fine with that. Very fine with that.

Most pitchers are right handed. It seems hitting LHP is a more common ability among catchers, as it is with most positions. Also, catching requires more rest than any other position, and lends itself well to a platoon situation. 

If this guy can proficiently hit RHP in the majors, then finding a complementary player who can play good D and hit lefties should not be a difficult task; with JPA looking like a very possible candidate to do just that.

(I have been a fan of Jeroloman for a little while. My enthusiasm was dampened by his struggles last year, but hope has been renewed with his solid showing n 2010.)
dan gordon - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#216222) #

I think people are overreacting a wee bit to Wallace's first slump of the year.  And that comment about his power being due to vegas is a bit off considering he had the same slg in sacramento last year.

He'll be our 1B next year.

Yes, but Sacramento is in the PCL as well.  A more realistic look is what he did in Memphis last year, which is not in the PCL.  His SLG in Memphis was .423.  Looking at Wallace's numbers from all the places he's played at last year and this year, and making appropriate adjustments for the PCL, I doubt he's ready to produce big numbers in mlb.  Since he is only 23, turning 24 in August, there is reason to believe he will improve with time.  He needs to.

jmoney - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#216225) #
Good gravy Batista is a beast this year. And to think, most of us on da box weren't too bullish on keeping him around.
greenfrog - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#216226) #
Romero, Cecil, Marcum, Bautista, Snider, Hill, Lind, the Wells contract...somewhere, JP Ricciardi is saying, I told you I knew what I was doing!
jmoney - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#216227) #
Well I think most metrics showed that J.P. built very good ballclubs. Ultimately, the Yankees and Red Sox, (Plus his mouth but mostly the Yankees) spelt his demise.
sam - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#216228) #
Good gosh Kenny Wilson gets caught stealing a lot.
uglyone - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 01:12 AM EDT (#216229) #
The Jays were forced to take Encarnacion back in the Rolen trade, so are basically stuck with him until his contract expires.

You keep stating this as if it is fact, when it is just your opinion - and an opinion based on having to ignore the fact that Encarnacion is a 27 year old 3rd baseman with a very good track record in every single year of his career, save last year's injured season.


Spifficus - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#216230) #
Given the prospects that came back and the money involved, it's the most reasonable assumption that Encarnacion's main role was money-balancing, one that was more palatable to the Jays than writing a check because he possessed some bounce-back potential. The Reds were willing to give him, a top 100 prospect and a decent relief prospect for the privilege of paying the rest of Rolen's contract. That's a pretty high cost for the improvement, which means they thought there was a lot to improve upon. Given the horrid defense that usually ate up any offensive value he had, they were right to want to upgrade.

I'd imagine if the Jays had the option, they wouldn't have taken back the extra salary. Given that they have him they'll play him to see if he does bounce back enough to have trade value. Heck, they might even offer arbitration if they don't have another reasonable option at 3B next year (though Bautista seems to be higher on that list now). He's still not any sort of a medium or long term answer. He's not Ryan Braun - he can't out-hit his defensive shortcomings unless he can limit the damage with the glove.

With all this in mind, I'd say it's entirely fair to state with a reasonable degree of confidence exactly what Chuck wrote - that the Jays were forced to take EE back in the Rolen deal, and are basically stuck with him until his contract expires. The only caveat that could apply is if he overcomes the odds and sees a massive improvement in his glove and has his bat return to his heyday. Since those are the things hopes, dreams, and wishbones are made of, he probably didn't need to toss those in.
TamRa - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:13 AM EDT (#216231) #
Random thought:

With Jeroloman back to being a prospect, and d'A on his way, how realistic would it be to consider pushing JPA out to 3B when the catching gets too crowded (assuming, for the sake of the question, that JPA ever proves to be a major league hitter)?

Didn't Ed Sprauge (for a handy example) come through the minors as a catcher?

TamRa - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:29 AM EDT (#216232) #
Oh, and speaking of position switches, before the Jays acquired Wallace, i had a hunch that Adam Loewen might be groomed for 1B at some point. Seems to me having a guy that big over there might be a defensive plus....


sam - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:39 AM EDT (#216234) #
Apparently Mike Wilner has been suspended because of a heated exchange between him and Cito
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/on-deck/article1593309/
China fan - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 05:33 AM EDT (#216235) #

There's a more detailed account of the Wilner suspension at this link:

  http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/06/04/disagreement-with-jays-manager-earns-radio-announcer-the-weekend-off/

This is actually a fascinating story, which probably deserves its own thread.  It's fascinating because of the complexities involved:  freedom of speech, freedom of the press, vs. the oddities of one of Toronto's more controversial sports personalities.  There's been lots of passionate argument about the case on DJF if anyone wants to scroll through the DJF discussion threads over the past couple of days.

A few quick points:

1) Wilner is a Rogers employee, and so is Gaston.  As a corporation, I suppose Rogers doesn't want its employees to be feuding in public, especially if a junior employee is clashing with a senior employee.  Hence, the corporation cracked down on the lower-ranking of the two.

2) On the other hand, the Toronto chapter of the Baseball Writers Association has sent a protest letter to Beeston, and they make a legitimate point:  you can't punish a journalist for asking tough questions.  That's his job.

3) On the third hand, Wilner is notorious for cutting off callers who question his opinions. So his suspension seems like a little dose of his own medicine.  Unlike most other journalists at Gaston press conferences, Wilner has a tone-of-voice issue:  he can be annoyingly sarcastic, hostile, arrogant.  But when Gaston cuts HIM off at a press conference, suddenly he complains that Gaston is "belittling" him.  So, it's okay for him to cut off and belittle his callers (okay, mostly the jerks), but he objects when someone cuts him off and belittles him?  Can't take his own tactics when they are turned on him?

4) At the heart of the dispute with Gaston was Wilner's persistent hostile questioning of Gaston's use of the bullpen in the 7-6 loss to Tampa.  Gaston responded to Wilner's questions by repeatedly saying "Look at the statistics."   Wilner, I think, may have misinterpreted the statistics that Gaston was alluding to -- or may have imagined that Gaston was referring to different statistics that he was actually referring to -- because Gaston didn't go into a detailed explanation of his decision.  He just said "Look at the stats."    Frankly, I'm on Gaston's side on this issue:  there is nothing that obliges him to go into a detailed discussion with Mike Wilner about statistics in a post-match discussion.  He shouldn't have to give a detailed sabermetric defence of every decision that he makes.  It's unreasonable, and it doesn't resolve anything -- as we know from our own Bauxite discussions.  So I agree with Gaston that he shouldn't have to engage in marathon statistical debates with Mike Wilner.  On the other hand, purely on freedom-of-speech principles, I don't think Wilner should be suspended for asking tough questions -- but ultimately he's a Rogers employee so there should be absolutely no doubt that Rogers will do whatever it wants to him.

Chuck - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 06:34 AM EDT (#216236) #
Bautista now has 28 homeruns in his last 302 AB.
TamRa - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#216237) #
RE Wilner

Let me preface by saying that every journalist Ive seen a comment from disapproves and the writer's association letter was written by Dick Griffin who's clearly not a Wilner fanboy, so there's that.

To your points:

1) I note the irony here of all those years of callers to Winer's show (and commenters on the blog) suggesting Wilner's objectivity was constrained by the fact he worked for Rogers. This would speak to that charge by indicating he didn't feel constrained...and maybe he should have?

2) they have it exactly right

3)  I think Wilner's style on his talk show is irrelevant because what you describe is SOP for radio talk shows. if a talk host induldges every caller (even the good ones but especially the nutters) he won't have listeners or a show for long. You can't do that job any other way. Does he occasionally sound condescending to a caller?

Oh yes. But the majority of the time (by far) said caller is saying something positively loopy (proposing a ridiculous trade, or suggesting we dump a good player after one bad game, or - just for a recent example - concluding "we can't play with the big boys" because of those two ninth inning losses. Most of us would be condescending on such suggestions aswell.

In fact, i dare say 90% of those who object to the way Wilner condescends to a goofy call wouldn't hesitate to condescend to a post here or elsewhere that insisted on taking a laughable position.

Further and more to the point, take the listy of the top 20 talk show hosts by ratings and tell me if you see one on there who DOESN'T display a marked lack of tolerance for idiots.

THAT, as a talk show host, is every bit as much his job as asking Cito tough questions.

Cito, on the other hand, is in a job which requires just the opposite sort of behavior.

4) What should Cito have done? Here's a thought - he could try something new and allow as to how maybe - just MAYBE - he could have done it better...that he in retrospect made a mistake. Something like this:

"You know Mike, that's not a bad point. Clearly looking back it didn't work out as I'd hoped. In those situations I have to make a snap judgment and, just like Kevin Gregg or any of the other players i'm human and it's obvious sometimes I'll get one wrong. Whether or not I got it wrong last night is open for debate of course, but if I get caught up in second guessing myself, I'll make a lot more of them.
That being the case, i kind of have to leave the hindsight discussion to people like yourself."

Not a direct admission of error - but allowing the possibility and showing some humility and class along the way. Cito has a reputation for class . . . not so much for humility maybe.


By the way, Wilner pointed out on his blog that the one statistic Cito was right about - Downs' record vs the Rays - is moot because Cito's opening of the point was that if he'd had Downs (or Frasor or Camp) still available to relieve Gregg he would have used him.

uglyone - Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 03:55 AM EDT (#216325) #
sorry, Spiffy, but the idea that Rolen wasn't highly in demand (I just read an article today arguing he belongs in the hall of fame), and that we'd have to take a salary dump in return to trade him is hard enough to swallow in the first place.

and then arguing that a 27 year old with an excellent track record in every year of his career aside from one injured season, on a contract worth less than $5 mil, has negative value seems pretty silly on top of that.

Rolen is an excellent player that was making a big salary.

Encarnacion is a good player making a mediocre salary. The two good-but-not-great-prospects made up the difference.

Spifficus - Sunday, June 06 2010 @ 06:10 AM EDT (#216328) #
I look at Rolen as a once-great player in the downside of his career who was in the midst of a BABIP-fueled mini-resurgent season (to the point of being good, not very good, and not great) at the age of 34 at the time of the trade with a huge recent injury history, and set to make $17M for 1 1/3 seasons (he had a $4M bonus on top of his $11M salary for 2010).

Encarnacion was someone who, prior to his wrist injury, had a decent offensive history that was augmented by his home park and probably by the 'strength' of competition. He also had a defensive profile that was somewhere between abysmal and cataclysmic, and would wipe out almost all of his offensive contributions. He had about $5M left for 1 1/2 seasons.

Stewart was a top 100 prospect, and was the major value of the deal. Roenicke was a decent but not excessively overwhelming prospect.

This is how the trade broke down for me, and which is why I still see Encarnacion's major role as salary relief for the Reds (for whom he would be redundant). I say this having defended Encarnacion more than once. Getting someone back with some offensive upside and a hope and a prayer with the glove (if Butters could work magic) is better than adding zeros to a check.
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