Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Two names off the market ...

Though he was probably never a serious candidate for the Jay job, cross the name Eric Wedge off the lsit of potential new skippers in TO. The 101-loss Mariners tabbed the ex-Indian chief (Har!) for their club's managerial post today, one former backup backstop (Wedge) to replace another (Don Wakamatsu). Good hire?

UPDATE: The Cubs have retained Mike Quade as manager, dropping the "interim" tag from his title after he took over a 51-74 team and took them to a 24-13 finish in 2010.

Quade was never a candidate in the Jay search. But ... Ryne Sandberg, anyone?

Posted by Mick Doherty on Monday, October 18 2010 @ 02:48 PM EDT.

Two names off the market ... | 83 comments | Create New Account

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TamRa - Monday, October 18 2010 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#224228) #

probably pretty good hire for them.

Rosenthal tweets that Sandy Alomar Jr will get a third (?! When did he get the first two ?!) interview with the Jays. Seems like he has an awfully thin resume...

Jevant - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#224240) #

Not a fan.

Still confused/surprised/disappointed that the Dodgers won't let the Jays interview Wallach.

Parker - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#224244) #

Is Ron Roenicke still in the running?

Thomas - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#224248) #

I don't think we know. I haven't heard any update on Roenicke. Aside from hearing about Alomar's third interview and that Valentine doesn't expect to get a second interview, there has been little word concerning most of the candidates.

Thomas - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#224249) #

I should add, one exception to my above comment is that Tim Bogar is apparently no longer a candidate. I read that yesterday, but I can't find the link.

Parker - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#224251) #

I found the Bogar info from a Maureena Mullen tweet via mlbtraderumors.com. I can't get the link to work, but here's the URL for copy/pasting:

http://twitter.com/MaureenaMullen/status/27699451069

FisherCat - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#224253) #

Apparently AA manager Luis Rivera is no longer a candidate for the Jays' vacancy, according to a Union Leader blog post on 10/14.

Kind of surprised that this hasn't got more coverage by the Toronto media or MLBtraderumors.

TamRa - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#224254) #

with Wallach off the list, Sandberg is probably my favorite out-of-organization candidate.

Might be an element there of being a sucker for a high profile name...

dan gordon - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#224257) #

Griffin thinks it could be Canadian Rob Thomson, the Yankees 3rd base coach.

ramone - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#224259) #

This tweet from Shi Davidi makes it a little clearer:

"Multiple sources: Rob Thomson, Dave Martinez, Sal Fasano, Luis Rivera told by Blue Jays they're out of running for manager job"

"(cont) Red Sox bench coach DeMarlo Hale, Indians 1B coach Sandy Alomar Jr., remain very much in running. Canadian Press story coming soon"

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#224260) #

Hadn't heard Hale's name in this -- he'd be a great hire.

Thomas - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#224261) #

From Davidi's article:

The status of Red Sox pitching coach John Farrell, Los Angeles Angels bench coach Ron Roenicke, San Diego Padres first base coach Rick Renteria, Philadelphia Phillies bench coach Pete Mackanin, Blue Jays third base coach Brian Butterfield, and bench coach Nick Leyva is less clear.

jerjapan - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#224262) #

Hadn't heard Hale's name in this -- he'd be a great hire.

Mick- what's the story with Hale? I'm not familiar with him.

Gerry - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#224263) #

I think it's safe to say that AA has been interviewing non-stop since the regular season ended two plus weeks ago. I think it is also safe to say that the list has been narrowed down to three to five names. There is only one possible coach of a playoff team who could be under consideration so the process should not be delayed much, if at all, by the playoffs.

So, AA should be able to get down to one or two names by the end of this week or early next week.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays named their manager between the championship series and the world series.

Gerry - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#224264) #

One other point:

Before the game tonight Mike Wilner on the Fan reflected back on his conversation with AA on Monday. Wilner also posted on his blog about it.

Before the game tonight, I had Alex Anthopoulos on to talk about the manager search and some trade/roster-type stuff. You can hear the whole interview in our Audio On Demand section on the front page of this website, but the one thing that Alex said that stood out to me, in talking about candidates for manager, was: �Some may not be ready for the opportunity, and we may have to say �This guy has a chance to be a star�. Maybe we would hire him on even if he needs a little bit more time.�

Wilner originally thought AA might be referencing Sal Fasano, but now he thinks it might be Alomar. Does this indicate AA is leaning towards Alomar?

Mike Forbes - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#224265) #

If tweets are to be believed, it sounds like there maybe four finalists for the Jays job:
- Brain Butterfield
- Sandy Alomar Jr.
- Demarlo Hale
- Ryne Sandberg (?)

So, lets say those are the four choices, who do you choose? The inhouse guy? The hot prospect? The vet? Or the hall of famer?

Mike Forbes - Tuesday, October 19 2010 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#224266) #

Of course, I mean Brian Butterfield. Brain will be a stupid nickname reserved for him if he fails as a manager.

TamRa - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:39 AM EDT (#224271) #

I make the current short list as Alomar, Hale, Butter, and possibly Sandberg. With Renteria, Roenicke, and possibly Mackanin on the fringes still.

On an unrelated note - the latest minor league transaction list says the jays have resigned Adam Loewen (and Crabbe and Perales) and assigned him to the AFL - and lists him as a first baseman(?) - i've been projecting that possibility for a while but this is the first hint i've seen it might be in their plans.

scottt - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 07:39 AM EDT (#224273) #

It may be that Ryno was applying just to boost his chances with the Cubs, but he's definitively available now.

Gerry - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 08:22 AM EDT (#224274) #

In the Star today Brian Butterfield says he hasn't spoken with AA since the season ended. He says it's good as he hasn't been told he is out but AA obviously hasn't needed a second interview with him.

Pistol - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 09:02 AM EDT (#224275) #

It also looks like the front office might have developed a leak, there is more information out on the interwebs about this search than there has been on anything the Jays have done over the last six months.

You have to contact other teams to interview people, and the people interviewed themselves don't exactly need to keep things under wraps once they're out of the running (and off the record if they're in the running). So it's not out of the question that these leaks are coming from outside the organization.

Manager searches never really seem to be under the radar for any team any way.

bpoz - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#224276) #

Mike Forbes,

Since you were gracious enough to make a list and ask our opinion, let me say:-

I really don't know.
I like BB's experience, teaching ability, familiarity with the personnel, ability to be well organized and IMO 3rd base coach has to be smart so his in game strategies should be pretty good. So he would be my choice.
I still think character is most important like handling pressure, making a decision and handling the complaints & bitching such as Player X has lost the Closer role, 5th SP spot, moving down in the Batting Order etc..

I don't know much about Hale. I believe Alomar is a catching coach or something. Now I don't know, but if it is a job down in importance to other coaching jobs like 1st base, hitting etc..., then if he or any of the others are considered future super star but lacks experience then they may consider a coaching position on the Jays's that is an upgrade. Of course a new manager may want to pick his own coaches.

Lastly and IMO very important AA must want someone that he sees eye to eye with. I am not sure but to me that is a reasonable assumption. If so then how would AA manage... Bunt, conservative or daring on the base paths, etc...
IMO based on the few players moves that AA has made so far, he will work extremely hard to get the type of players he wants and successfully do it. So if it is speed then he would choose that type of manager and coaches.

92-93 - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#224280) #

Is there a lot of precedent for managers having their brothers as coaches? Sandy Alomar Jr. got me thinking of a guy I'd like to have around as 1st base coach...

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#224282) #

"Doofus" is mildly offensive, but this "I see too much of Jimy Williams in Brian Butterfield" is actionable in 9 provinces and in at least 47 states. I hope that you lawyered up on this one, dude.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#224283) #

Well, if you need to lawyer up, Da Box is the place to be. I believe our last oganizational evaluation showed that seventy-four precent of Bauxites are barristers of some sort (and I'm married to one) ... new kids seeking clients, the line forms to the left!

John Northey - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#224285) #

I wonder if a lot of leaks are intentional too. Think about it, AA wanted to do interviews with the media and seeing how these guys handle being in the news and how the papers react to certain names (especially ones like Alomar Jr) can give AA a view to how things would go in the short term after a hiring.

Of course, it could also just be plain old speculation in a lot of cases. If he wanted to test how leaky things are just toss in a 'lets interview Barry Bonds for the managers role' comment in a meeting and see if it gets out :)

Ryan Day - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#224286) #

I don't think that media test would reveal much. Interviewing for an important job is generally a positive thing, and it's not like the media would put a lot of time or effort into covering candidates for the job. "How do you think the interview went?" isn't nearly the same thing as being asked for the 15th day in a row why you're keeping Overbay in the lineup or letting Kevin Gregg close games.

Unless Athopoulos leaked incriminating material about the candidates, so they think they're showing up for a show-and-tell, but instead get asked about drug habits and marital infidelities. :)

Original Ryan - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#224287) #

During this managerial search, AA has been forced to deal with a lot of people outside the organization. I suspect most of the leaks are coming from the organizations the candidates are currently with, or from the candidates themselves.

smcs - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#224289) #

Does anyone know the rules regarding interviewing minority candidates? I know the NFL has the Rooney Rule in regards to interviewing and the hiring process, but does MLB have something similar? Dana Brown, special assistant to the GM for the Jays, got interviewed for the Mets GM opening. This article specifically states that he is "the first minority candidate to be interviewed" which makes me think there is a rule, but I've never heard about it before.

Gerry - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#224291) #

There is a minority rule for managers, I am not sure about GM positions.

Cito Gaston and other minority candidates have declined interview requests because they felt they were being interviewed to meet that requirement.

Noah - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#224292) #

Report just came out the Farrell, Hale and Alomar Jr. are the 3 finalists for the job and a new manager should be chosen within the week. Looks like Butterfield missed the cut which should mean a pretty extensive overhaul of the coaching staff.

Flex - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#224293) #

It troubles me a little that Butterfield seems not to have been informed that he's out, especially since others outside the organization have been given that courtesy. But maybe that's just a matter of the delay between when he mentioned that to Griffin and when it was reported. I hope at least that he was informed before this list of three finalists was made public.

Gerry - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#224294) #

If this post is true then I would expect Butter to leave to hook up with his buddy Buck Showalter. These reports are out of Boston, understandable as there are two Boston names on the list, so the report might not be 100% accurate. For political reasons I would assume the Jays would give Butter a second interview.

Flex - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#224295) #

Of the three names mentioned I have to say I'm most interested in Farrell, mainly for his connection to the success of Boston's young starters. He also seems to have been sought after for a while by other teams, forcing the Red Sox to rewrite his contract and give him a lot more money. Demarlo Hale seems very viable too. I like that he's had extensive experience as a manager, tho' not in the majors.

Given the situation of this team -- its state of development and the division in which it resides -- I think Alomar would be a very risky choice. No question a bold, maybe even an inspired move, but one that could easily blow up in AA's face.

ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#224296) #

I hope that you lawyered up on this one, dude.

I'm thinking someone else just saw Social Network.

ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#224297) #

I think Alomar would be a very risky choice

I'm curious why Alomar Jr. would be a more 'risky' choice than the other two you mention.

Mylegacy - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#224298) #

I'm gonna get yelled at...

While I'm on record as wanting Butters (mostly for internal continuity reasons, and 'cause I admire the guy) - the honest - real - truth is I have no frigging idea who would be best. Hell, I don't even know who would be adequate. I - and I strongly feel "WE" - have no idea - nada - zip what any of these guys philosophies of management is - and - even - IF - they have a "philosophy of management" how dependent is that on the players they have to work with? In addition - even IF we KNEW exactly what their philosophies of management were - so what? Truly - which approach is the best? A numbers guys, a numbers guy with a heart, a communication guy, a communication guy with a love of numbers, what really works?

The Yank fans want Girardi's balls - the Sox fans want Francona's dangly parts - and so on and so on. I strongly suspect that when all is said and done - some day in the far and distant future - a Bill James study is going to reveal that actually - honestly - the pitchers and the hitters and the defenders will be shown to be responsible for winning the OVERWHELMING majority of games and the manager's greatness, or not-so-greatness, as the case may be, wins or loses one or two a year.

Is it April yet - have the Yanks been eliminated - has justice been restored to the galaxy?

Jonny German - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#224299) #

I'd agree that Alomar is a risky choice, because he has no managerial experience.

The same is true of John Farrell, tho he does have 4 years of Major League coaching experience to Alomar's 1.

DeMarlo Hale (note the spelling, you folks who still get "Frasor" wrong) has the by far the strongest resume of the 3 in terms of managerial experience, and he also has more extensive Major League coaching experience.

PeterG - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#224300) #

Farrell is my choice. Even though he has less experience than Hale, I have heard many good things about him from a player who was once in the Cleveland organization. He could be the more inexperienced gem that AA was referring to a couple of days ago. My money's on him.

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#224301) #

I'm thinking someone else just saw Social Network.

Yep. Good movie.

This is purely subjective, but I do like that Anthopoulos has cast an appropriately wide net in his search for a new manager. This does seem to be a general characteristic of his, gathering information from a wide variety of sources about his options. The cheerful discreet competent p.i.; you couldn't make a much of a movie about him though...

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#224303) #

The cheerful discreet competent p.i.;

Alex Anthopolous IS ... Ace Ventura? No, arguably less than competent, anyway.
Alex Anthopolous IS ... Magnum, P.I.? Not terribly discrete, though perhaps discreet?
Alex Anthopolous IS ... Columbo? Not really cheerful.
Alex Anthopolous IS ... Nancy Drew! Or maybe Frank and Joe Hardy, anyway ...

ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#224305) #

I have to say that I'm a huge fan of the direction that Anthopolous has taken with the organization - returning to the focus on scouting, and on Latin American player acquisition, but also the players he's brought in that have drawn criticism here but have performed at a level above expectation and are now in a position to bring in prospects. I suspect that the factors he'll put emphasis on will be the right ones.

i like the little I know about Demarlo Hale's minor league resume but I wouldn't go overboard in weighting it. I like the fact that Alomar Jr. is a former catcher as opposed to first baseman or pitcher. I like the fact that Alomar Jr. speaks two languages.

I want someone who'll know that a guy like Jose Bautista has potential, and who won't be taken in by Randy Ruiz's PED and hitting environment-driven numbers. I want someone who players will show up to play for rather than head down the tunnel to punch out.

I liked a comment by Magpie in an earlier thread where he noted that Gaston is suspicious of the view that managers will pull a rabbit out of a hat to win the game (admittedly my words, not his). I suspect that most people (take Mike Wilner for an example) who have that view of managers don't work in a field where everyone's smart. I think the question, is who makes the best longterm judgments and has the appropriate temperament. I also agree with the view expressed earlier in this thread that the players on the field are the ones who are going to determine the results, rather than some 'too-clever-for-words' manager.

I don't know why Anthopolous would be drawn to Farrell, but if he goes that way I'll simply assume he saw what he knew he wanted and it was the right move to make. I say the same about Alomar Jr. and Hale. I don't think this is a quasi-scientific decision, but a discretionary call based on good judgment and giving the appropriate weight to the right factors.

A friend of mine once described his investment strategy as figuring out what another friend would do, and then doing the exact opposite. I think my approach would be to figure out who the 'too clever for words' choice would be, and then doing the opposite.

At this point, I hope if the choice is a 44 year old Latino former catcher, with only 1 year of major league coaching experience, that he and Anthopolous will be given the benefit of the doubt and given a greater level of support than Cito Gaston was on the blogs. I say the same about both Farrell and Hale. Whoever Anthopolous chooses will be someone whom I assume he thinks will do the best overall job, and his judgment to this point has proven impressive.

Last, Brian Butterfield's been a great contributor to this organization. Not only has he done a great job as an infield coach but he also organized spring training and to my knowledge did a fabulous job. Should he go, and that looks to be a possibility, I only wish him the best and I'll be cheering him in Florida in March if he ends up with Showalter.

Ryan Day - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#224306) #

"I hope [Alomar] and Anthopolous will be given the benefit of the doubt and given a greater level of support than Cito Gaston was on the blogs."

That's really funny. Cito Gaston managed 1,731 games in the majors, won 2 World Series, and was by most accounts liked and respected by players, and plenty of critics acted like he was an illiterate yahoo who'd never even watched a baseball game.

It doesn't really matter who the manager is: People will criticize and ridicule him. Some of it will be deserved, and plenty will be uninformed conjecture and second-guessing.

In that sense, there's just no preparing for the job. Not even the best coaches or minor league managers have to deal with that kind of scrutiny from the fans and media, and there's no telling how someone will react to it.

Magpie - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#224307) #

I have no frigging idea who would be best.

You and me both. The proof of the pudding..

scottt - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#224308) #

I'm not a big fan of Cito's style, but but for the most part he did well with the players he had.

I'm eager to see the starting 9 for '11.

Flex - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#224309) #

This interview, in which Alomar discusses coaching, makes me feel a little better about his chances as a manager.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ7vHSqL-T8

We still don't know how he would react to crisis and pressure over the course of a year, so that's why I think his hiring would be risky. On the other hand, handling pressure as a big league catcher for 20 years augers well.

Rich - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#224310) #

Will be surprised if it's Farrell if for no other reason that the fact that he was a pitcher. Bud Black seems like a good manager but unless I'm mistaken he is the only former big league pitcher piloting a club. Don't really know if there's a valid reason why pitchers rarely become managers or not but if I was a betting man I'd say Farrell's chances aren't great.

JohnL - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#224311) #

Will be surprised if it's Farrell if for no other reason that the fact that he was a pitcher. Bud Black seems like a good manager but unless I'm mistaken he is the only former big league pitcher piloting a club.

I don't know if Black is the only ex-pitcher manager, but according to the Verducci SI article about the pitcher/manager question, it's extremely rare now. (Lasorda & Clark Griffiths being a couple of very notable exceptions from the past).
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/01/23/pitchers.managers/

And the chart confirms the general impression that ex-catchers seem to be favoured. Are the usual reasons cited actually valid? As commented in the thread in another context, I have no friggin idea.

But I hope the idea of "catchers make good managers" isn't too big a factor in Anthopolous's decision, and that it's based on the quality and potential of the candidate.

The Jays already had a manager with many years' experience as a respected catcher (I heard Stieb talking about Buck last month). I always assume the failure was Martinez's lack of coaching/managing experience.

Not that he might have been a successful major league manager with some experience, but because the Jays (I think Godfrey) hired someone with no evidence at all that he could handle the situation with all its peculiar demands, and had no track record that counts in the job he was hired for.

So Alomar, with, I think, just 2 years minor-league instructor experience and just one year of major league coaching, worries me a bit. But maybe his skills and potential are obvious to those around the baseball world.

JohnL - Wednesday, October 20 2010 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#224312) #

Having now watched the interview with Alomar that Flex posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ7vHSqL-T8), I think my Martinez/Alomar linkage might be a bit weak. Alomar certainly strikes me as having some superior awareness of coaching issues and approaches to players... at least from my view in the very back row of the bleachers.

TamRa - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 02:48 AM EDT (#224314) #

Postulating the possibility that it ends up being Alomar, it's almost a given you need a wise grizzled guru (a don Zimmer if you will) to sit by him on the bench. is Nick Leyva good enough to be that guy? if he's not, who should we expect (particularly, who's the older guys that have past connections to the Jays or to the current staff of execs)?

The only old timer that comes to mind for me is Felipe Alou and he's gotta be pushing 80 or something, is he not?

Tere's Davy Johnson but I don't see him being anyone's coach.

Mike Hargrove managed SAJ most of his Cleveland career - might be a connection there?

Richard S.S. - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 05:45 AM EDT (#224315) #

Are DeMarlo Hale, John Farrell and Sandy Alomar Jr. the final selections for Toronto's future manager? Or is there more to come? Do New York, Texas, San Francisco and Philadelphia have anyone better qualified AA should be looking at, or has AA already "been there"?

AA told all the Team Staff they had a job next year in the organization. Does Hale, if Manager, want Farrell and/or others? Does Farrell, if Manager, want Hale and/or others? Who would Alomar want, his brother and/or others?

Alomar has the most upside, the most potential, the most value at this time. The genaeral understanding is Sandy AlomarJr. will be a manager, the general opinion is already !?!?!

Pistol - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 09:19 AM EDT (#224316) #

How does one, viewing from the outside, determine that a potential manager has the 'most upside, the most potential, the most value at this time'?

Is it just a matter of thinking that because AA is considering someone without much of a track record?

Mike Green - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#224318) #

It is not well known, but early in 1968 when Earl Weaver was a first base coach for the Orioles, he got into a dust-up with an umpire. It was very early days, so his pecking at the umpire with the bill of his cap was not perfected (including one embarrassing miss where Earl nearly fell over) and his effort to "dust" the umpire resulted in dirt being distributed as much on him as the umpire. I distinctly remember Joe Garagiola saying, "Curt, I think Earl's definitely got upside as a manager" and "Allan Roth has some Kick fX numbers for us while we watch that again in slo-mo...the dirt left his shoe at 94 mph and while his control was erratic, it's just a matter of time before he harnesses it"

smcs - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#224319) #

Rob Bradford of weei.com has come back to say that Brian Butterfield is another finalist in the Jays hunt for a new manager.

AA told all the Team Staff they had a job next year in the organization. Does Hale, if Manager, want Farrell and/or others? Does Farrell, if Manager, want Hale and/or others? Who would Alomar want, his brother and/or others?

I believe the arrangement was that all of the coaches have offers for jobs somewhere in the organization. If the new manager wants to keep Bruce Walton as the pitching coach, but has a better bullpen coach in mind, Rick Langford will be offered a job elsewhere in the organization (minor league roving pitching instructor), but is free to leave. My guess is no matter who the new manager is, the staff will remain largely the same. I'd bet there will be a new bench coach, but Leyva and Butterfield (if he does not get the job) may swap jobs.

Mick in Ithaca - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#224320) #

I think that if Alomar gets the job, the fact that he hasn't managed might mean that it's less likely that he has a coterie of guys he'll want to bring in as coaches. If that's true, then it's also more likely that he'll keep some of the current staff. To my mind, keeping Walton around would be the most important thing. I would think that if Butter doesn't get the job, he'll be gone. I can't imagine Leyva staying on no matter who gets the job.

If it's true that Alomar is the guy who's maybe not quite ready but whom they think is going to be an elite manager, then I hope they make the bold move and hire him. I'm impressed with what I've seen of him on YouTube interviews; he seems to be a real baseball thinker, an articulate and exciting speaker, a guy (like AA I suppose) who really puts in the due diligence on whatever responsibility he's taken on. The catching program he designed for the Mets appears to be something into which has gone a lot of thought and dedication. His 20 year career as a major league catcher bodes well for his understanding of pitchers and the use of the bullpen, as well as what he might be able to offer the young catchers the Jays will be developing at the major league level starting (one hopes) this coming spring.

Matthew E - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#224321) #

I still remember Farrell as a player - as a rookie starter with the Indians in '87, he stopped Paul Molitor's hitting streak. I think he also pitched for the Angels, and was never great, but had a couple of decent years.

JohnL - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#224322) #

There has been a lot of discussion about how a GM hires a manager: what are the criteria, what would be in an interveiw etc. (I think there was more discussion in the other manager thread).

The Star has an article today about Dan Duguette's basis for judging a prospective manager. He hired 3: Felipe Alou in Montreal and Kevin Kennedy and Jimy Williams in Boston, so perhaps his evaulation techniques needed a bit of tuning

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/878666--searching-for-a-skipper

chocolatethunder - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#224325) #

Its interesting that Bradford still has inside scoop of the Jays goings on....thought JP was the mole but seems someone else in the front office is,??

85bluejay - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#224326) #

chocolatethunder

I don't think Bradford column rules out JP as the mole - first, you are assuming the report is complete, a big

assumption given that yesterday he had only 3 finalist - also, 2 candidates from Boston org. where it's likely

Mr. Bradford has very good contacts, Rosenthal had previously mentioned that Sandy was having a 3rd. interview

so you had to include him and today he added Butterfield who has a connection to JP

finally watched the 2 YouTube clips of Sandy Alomar during the Indians spring training - very impressed with not

only his Thoughtfulness and planning, but his ability to communicate that to the media.

TamRa - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#224330) #

I can't imagine Leyva staying on no matter who gets the job.

Leyva made the comment more than once early on that he wanted to be back regardless because he thought he could be valuable to whoever got the job as someone who knew the players well (as would Butterfield but he was speaking of himself)

if Leyva isn't on the staff it won't be because he wanted out unless he was brazenly lying or changed his mind.

Someone mentioned lesewhere the idea that, if Butter moved on to Baltimore, that SAJ might hire Robbie as an infield instructor but...i LOVE Robbie and would like him to have a place here...can we assume that a guy who was a tremendous instinctive talent is naturaly going to be a good coach for those not as gifted as he was?

I really don't have any frame of reference to say yes or no on that but i don't think it's a given that just because he was a magician that it would translate to being an above average positional coach.

TamRa - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#224332) #

he's working as an instructor in florida for the jays as we speak, for whatever that's worth...

perlhack - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#224338) #

Since there's no general comments thread, I'll post this here.

If you intend on making projections for the performance of Blue Jays hitters in 2011, keep in mind that Bautista played most of 2010 with a hernia.

Chuck - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#224339) #

I was wondering why he didn't hit 75 homeruns.

damos - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#224342) #

Peter Gammons via Twitter:

"Three G'Ms today insisted John Farrell will get the Toronto job. The final list was the product of exhaustive, thoughtful due diligence

Mick Doherty - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#224345) #

Oh, that wacky Gammons -- there he goes using a whole bunch of words he doesn't understand again!

bpoz - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#224346) #

WillRain... If correct I am glad that A Loewen is still with the Jays. Since he was never on our 40 man then he must still have options.

Mylegacy... I cannot remember your exact words, also my computer skills are limited so i don't want to check back and lose stuff. But you said something like Bill James maybe proving that the manager has an insignificant effect on the winning of games. While debatable which I will leave to others I must say this week I AM SCARED. I am afraid that a wrong choice, will make us pay for the next 3-5 years. But I don't know. I don't know how to measure a manager like I can measure a fastball or running speed or a lazy jog to 1st base. While I have thrown in my 2 where is the cents button , I don't have a cents button $.02, I would have to give out change. AA has to be sweating about this move. He cannot make a list like in player acquisitions, lets say 10 players on his list, he acquires 6 and then chastises himself for the 4 missed opportunities. After all a % WILL work out.

I have to go now and find the thread on prospects, so I can challenge the Bauxite who likes C Perez better than JPA. If he is willing to trade them even up right now then he has bigger Bs than me. Just kidding but...

Mylegacy - Thursday, October 21 2010 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#224348) #

bpoz let me save you some time...

Perez is quite superior to JPA. Carlos is a better receiver, game caller, thrower, runner and hitter. JPA has a slow long swing that will be exploited by big league pitchers but wonderful power - that is good but he is nowhere the overall package that Perez is.

Richard S.S. - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 03:14 AM EDT (#224349) #

If John Farrell becomes our next Manager, who becomes Boston's next Pitching Coach?

Magpie - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 05:31 AM EDT (#224350) #

I still remember Farrell as a player

Me too. He was a pretty decent pitcher until the termites got his arm...

Farrell was the Cleveland starter in the first game of Cito Gaston's managerial career, back in May 1989. A couple of two run HRs by Moseby and Bell did him in as Jimmy Key beat him 5-3.

Ryan Day - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#224352) #

The more I hear about Farrell, the more I like. Pitching coach of a successful team is certainly a good qualification, but he also spent several years as Cleveland's farm director; this article from 2005 considered him an eventual candidate for a General Manager gig. He knows pitching, but also player development, which presumably includes some exposure to hitting talent as well.

Magpie - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#224353) #

who becomes Boston's next Pitching Coach?

I'd like to nominate Oil Can Boyd.

Hodgie - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#224355) #

For what it is worth, Griffin quotes Anthopoulos as saying that he hasn't made a decision yet. Given Anthopoulos' modus operandi, it is fair to say that the "exhaustive, thoughtful due diligence" continues on in whatever form Gammons imagines that to be.

Gerry - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#224356) #

It's unclear whether Gammons comment means that three GM's would pick Farrell if they were in AA's position, or if three GM's believe the Jays have already picked Farrell. Given AA's comments I would suspect the former.

Ryan Day - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#224358) #

Depends on which GMs they are, too. One would think that Boston & Cleveland have at least some inside information on the process, while other teams might merely be speculating.

cascando - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#224359) #

I think the fact that Farrell was the starting pitcher in Gaston's first game as manager is a fantastic coincidence. Signifying nothing, perhaps, but I really enjoy this kind of connection.

JPA has a slow long swing that will be exploited by big league pitchers but wonderful power - that is good but he is nowhere the overall package that Perez is.

I am about as far from being a fan of Arencibia as one can be (I'm somewhat hoping the Jays cash in on his fantastic minor league season and trade him in the offseason) but I really don't think he has a long, slow swing. A bit long, perhaps, but he has some of the quickest hands I've seen on a young hitter and his power is likely a product of excellent bat speed. It is his overall approach to hitting that makes me think he isn't likely to have great success in MLB.

Pistol - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#224360) #

""Three GMs today insisted John Farrell will get the Toronto job."

I don't really think there's a lot of room for interpretation here.

1. Gammons isn't reporting that Farrell is the next manager. Although by the manner in which he does this on Twitter, if Farrell is the manager he looks like he was the first to mention it, but if it's someone else it was other people that were misinformed - a no lose situation. (Bill Simmons had an interesting column on the subject in regards to the Moss trade a week or two ago)
2. But by using 'insisted' it's more than a guess by these GMs (although why they would have insight on the matter is a fair question).

That AA says that he hasn't decided is probably just a matter of finishing up everything. Once he decides on a candidate they still have to come to terms on a salary and number of years on a contract. And he probably has to get Godfrey to sign off on it, and perhaps people further up the Rogers chain. If any of that falls through then you have to go to your next candidate. If there's any chance of any of that falling through you can't tip your hand so you just tell the media you haven't made up your mind.

My guess is that they're in the process of negotiating terms with Farrell and, unless either side has unreasonable demands, he'll be the next manager.

JohnL - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#224362) #

he probably has to get Godfrey to sign off on it

Godfrey? Did he hide out in a closet somewere in the Rogers Centre? I thought him leaving was one of the best things to happen to the Jays for a few years...

Original Ryan - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#224363) #

Gammons just tweeted a partial mea culpa:

"Told I may be preamture on John Farrell , that Alex Anthropolous last night still considering Demarlo Hale. Decision very soon"

Pistol - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#224364) #

Beeston, of course, not Godfrey.

bpoz - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#224365) #

Thank you for your response Mylegacy and also the comments of others.
The #1 topic should be decided B4 the end of the month as a new manager is announced.

I made my JPA comment in hopes of discussion on other things. AA's flipping moves really intrigue me, ie B Wallace... Moves within moves. Less intriguing but still interesting J Guzman for M Sharperson and an OF from I believe the Phils (G Bell Rule 5)and recent M Scutoro & J Bautista. I really liked catchers GQ & R Diaz as they moved up the minors.

IMO the missed opportunities AA spoke of I am guessing happened at the July trade deadline. He & A Tinnish had Draft choice negotiations to deal with so keeping his ear to everything had to be difficult. Still the information his army of scouts had acquired can now be much more useful this off season than last when they were just starting out.

JohnL - Friday, October 22 2010 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#224368) #

Beeston, of course, not Godfrey.

Whew. That was like a bad acid flashback. :-)

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