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Th is for Thursday and for theoretical and for thought experiment...


Okay. Think of Nick Swisher. To give yourself a frame of reference, think of what BA/OBP/SLG he is going to put up this year. No need to write it down or anything.

Now then. Consider the following two teams. They have identical pitching staffs and fielders, and they play in identical parks, against identical schedules, with identical uniforms, identical bench units, the same manager and the same mascot (it's an aardvark). The only difference is their lineups:

Team A Team B
1. Jeff Mathis
2. Jeff Mathis
3. Jeff Mathis
4. Jeff Mathis
5. Jeff Mathis
6. Jeff Mathis
7. Nick Swisher
8. Jeff Mathis
9. [pitcher]
1. Jacoby Ellsbury
2. Jose Bautista
3. Albert Pujols
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Jeff Mathis
6. Jeff Mathis
7. Nick Swisher
8. Jeff Mathis
9. [pitcher]

(... and a tip of the hat to Anders for suggesting Mathis, who's way funnier than Lou Marson.)

From the perspective of the traditional "protection theory," Swisher shouldn't really gain much from having four all-stars at the top of his order instead of four Jeff Mathises, since he has the same two guys in front of him and the same two guys behind him.

Nonetheless, I submit to you that Nick Swisher will put up better production stats on the second team. He will have a considerably better BA, OBP, SLG, possibly a better K/BB ratio (Swisher A will get pitched around or IBB'd in tie games, but rarely when his team is losing by 2+). I'd wager Swisher B would hit at least 20 points higher in a 50,000-PA sample. Maybe 40 points.

Why? The physical pitches he sees will be worse. Swisher B will face pitchers who are, on average, ...
- on higher pitch counts
- more likely to be long relievers
- less confident (whereas Swisher A will consistently face pitchers who are working on no-hitters and feeling ultra-locked-in as a result; I actually think this may be the most important point, particularly in its effect on Swisher's BABIP, but that's just hack theorizing)
- less likely to be late-inning shutdown relievers

And so on. As a result, he is going to have an easier time on the second team than on the first one, and that should be reflected in his production.

How do you test this empirically? I suspect it would involve pitch-fx and be extremely difficult. In the absence of such research, I think the logic here is unassailable and would be shocked if this effect didn't exist in real life. Jayson Werth's lousy 2011, after he moved from the stacked Phillies to the mediocre Nats, may be one example. Or perhaps he just got old and left a hitters' park. Or maybe he was good and the hits just didn't fall. Or... at any rate, it's clear that the effect would be really, really hard to isolate using the blunt stats.

I've never seen this idea stated explicitly anywhere, though I'm sure billions have come up with it before. At any rate, it's just a curiosity, most useful for fantasy baseball, awards voting, and assessing what effect switching teams will have on a player.

At the end of the day, as I see it, this little thought experiment leads to the stunning and profound conclusion that the better your team hits, the better your team will hit.
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Mike Green - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 08:50 AM EST (#251942) #
Batters hit for better slash lines when (a) runners are on base, and (b) when their team is up by 4 runs or more.  That can be easily seen from league splits.  Swisher #2 is going to get more PAs in situations (a) and (b) than Swisher #1, ergo he should do better, even while acknowledging that the aardvark will seriously affect the production of both.  Shockingly BBRef does not break down batter performance by mascot.

It is true.  One way to win is to batter the opposition into submission.  That was the way to win for your 1993 Blue Jays, who had a very good offence and a less than stellar pitching staff, but doubled down at the deadline with Rickey Henderson (the Phillies were unfortunately not going to be trading Darren Daulton at that time). 

MatO - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 09:41 AM EST (#251943) #
Good god Mike!  You mean baseball isn't 90% pitching and defense!
John Northey - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 09:44 AM EST (#251944) #
1993 Rickey - always makes me think of what could've been as minutes after verbally agreeing to it Gillick was called by the Mariners offering Randy Johnson for Steve Karsay (then a hot prospect) the same guy he was trading to get Rickey. He could've switched as he only gave his word, not his signature to Oakland but he wasn't the type to go back on his word. Worked out in the end, but just imagine the big rat being here (my mom's nickname for Johnson as that is what he looked like) for the 90's instead. Would've made 94 and beyond a lot more fun I suspect.

As to the topic - a battered staff is a weaker staff. Might be worth checking guys on the 92 and 93 Jays teams as 92 was more pitching and 93 more offense so guys on both should've hit better in 93.
ayjackson - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 11:22 AM EST (#251950) #

Batters hit for better slash lines when (a) runners are on base, and (b) when their team is up by 4 runs or more.

I think you have cause and effect mixed up.  Wouldn't runners on base and lopsided scores be observed more often when slash lines are up (because the pitching is poor).  ie don't we observe the better slash lines in these scenarios because there is a greater ratio of poor pitching in the sample?

 

Mike Green - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 11:52 AM EST (#251952) #
In my view, batters hit better (at least from a slash line perspective) when runners are on base in large part because the corner infielders are usually sub-optimally positioned because of stolen base/double play considerations.  The other thing is that slash lines go way up with runners on third and less than 2 out because of the sacrifice fly scoring rule.  Swisher #2 would see a lot more of that than Swisher #1. 

Anyways, I wasn't arguing the causation.  I was just saying that Swisher #2 would find himself in those situations more often than Swisher #1 and would (for whatever reason) post better slash lines in those situations than others.  Hence Swisher #2 would post a better overall slash line than Swisher #1.  I don't think that it is a huge deal though; I do think that the general wearing down of the opponent's pitching staff is a valid consideration, although "general protection" might not be the best phrase to capture it. 
John Northey - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 12:21 PM EST (#251953) #
Now that it is lunch time...
Jays of 1992: 105 OPS+ 780 runs (2nd in league)
Jays of 1993: 110 OPS+ 847 runs (2nd in league)
Not as big a difference as I expected, but still ...

Carter 92: 264/309/498 119 OPS+
Carter 93: 254/312/489 112 OPS+ slight drop

White 92: 248/303/390 90
White 93: 273/341/438 108 solid improvement

Alomar 92: 310/405/427 129
Alomar 93: 326/408/492 141 solid improvement

Olerud 92: 284/375/450 126
Olerud 93: 363/473/599 186 wow, same guy?

Borders 92: 242/290/385 85
Borders 93: 254/285/371 75 solid drop

So among regulars we saw 2 drops, 2 jumps, and one skyrocket. Nothing that says anything really. Although Olerud sure had a killer 93 but digging deeper you see on August 2nd he was hitting 400/500/685 then dropped to 290/419/430 for the rest of the year which is what cost him the MVP I'm sure.

Is there a better paired year - I'm sure there has to be where the Jays shifted from low offense to high in one year.
John Northey - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 12:45 PM EST (#251954) #
Just found on B-R a year by year chart of offense per team.

The Jays biggest jump year to year was from 1997 to 1998 (0.97 runs per game). The biggest drop was from 2003 to 2004 (1.05 runs per game).

Common Jays with 300+ PA both years for 97-98 (98 being the 'good' year for offense) stats are avg/obp/slg OPS+...

Delgado 97: 262/350/528 127
Delgado 98: 292/385/592 150

Alex Gonzalez #1 97: 239/302/387 80
Alex Gonzalez #1 98: 239/281/361 66

Sprague 97: 228/306/385 80
Sprague 98: 238/301/424 86 (traded)

Green 97: 287/340/469 110 (471 PA)
Green 98: 278/334/510 116

Cruz Jr (101-97) and Stewart (113-107) both had limited time (under 300 PA) in '97 vs regulars in '98

So 1 big improvement, 2 slight, 1 big drop and 2 sorta drops (limited playing time year 1). Again, nothing of real note here. The offensive gain for the team was Delgado plus the new guys (Canseco, Fernandez, Stanley all 110+ OPS+) while dumping a few dead weights (Garcia, Santiago, Nixon, Carter, O'Brien all sub 80 OPS+) and giving kids a chance (Green, Stewart, Cruz Jr).

The drop in 03-04?
Delgado 03: 302/426/593 161
Delgado 04: 269/372/535 129 big drop

Hudson 03: 268/328/395 87
Hudson 04: 270/341/438 98 increase

Hinske 03: 243/329/437 97
Hinske 04: 246/312/375 76 big drop

Wells 03: 317/359/550 132
Wells 04: 272/337/472 105 big drop

Johnson 03: 294/353/427 102
Johnson 04: 270/320/380 79 big drop

Phelps 03: 268/358/470 113
Phelps 04: 237/296/417 80 yikes!

Catalanotto 03: 299/351/472 112
Catalanotto 04: 293/344/390 88 (274 PA) big drop

Woodward 03: 261/316/395 84
Woodward 04: 235/283/347 61 (232 PA) big drop

Hmm... might have something here. 7 of 8 guys dropped visibly from one year to the next, in fact all were 20+ points of OPS+. Maybe it is poor hitting drags everyone down more than good hitting helps everyone. Frank Menechino (131 OPS+ vs 95 lifetime) and Hudson were about it for bright lights on offense that year.

An interesting bit to look at eh? Also a warning about how just because you have a batch of kids who look good doesn't mean they will improve (as a group) the following year.
Alex Obal - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 01:24 PM EST (#251959) #
It's hard to tease out the effects of injury and the general aging curve from the self-fulfilling offensive production idea, I guess.

"General protection" is about the 450th most accurate phrase you could use to describe this Offensive Snowball Theory of So-Called Protection. (6th most accurate: "Hitting is contagious.")

I was thinking of how sometimes people will say "Gosh, Jose Bautista has to hit with Adam Lind behind him so nobody ever pitches to him. We need to get him some protection." That's true in a way but misleading. Bringing in Pujols for Lind will make Bautista's job easier, but (I assert) it'll happen to a noticeable extent regardless of where Pujols hits in the order. It will probably be compounded a bit by the Specific Protection theory as well if Pujols bats behind him, and by the It's Easier To Hit With Runners On Base theory if Pujols bats in front of him.
Ryan Day - Thursday, February 16 2012 @ 01:58 PM EST (#251962) #
You'd have to subtract something from Swisher B due to the crippling depression and self-esteem problems caused by being told he has to hit behind two Jeff Mathises.

Conversely, Swisher A might benefit from pitchers forgetting how to pitch, as they repeatedly retire Mathises on 80mph fastballs.
Alex Obal - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 01:37 AM EST (#251982) #
Yep. That is where the whole thing falls apart.

A team with seven Mathises in the field to frame pitches would probably get its share of shutouts, too...

bpoz - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 11:01 AM EST (#251993) #
I guess luck, injuries, career years etc play a part in success. These factors cannot be accurately predicted.

I strongly believe if some or all or those factors happen to a team then they WILL over perform. Right?

But the effect of some factors can be sort of measured. A very good rotation should provide success. For example..Phillies & LAA. Probably the depth of TB as well.

I have also always believed that a very strong hitting lineup like the 1993 Jays should provide success as John N has said & proven. WAMCO, Fernandez, Maldonado, Sprague & Borders. Only Borders was weak offensively IMO. A smart manager that understands hitting & scoring helps. Arguments can be made about the value of Borders to the TEAM's success.

The 2012 Jays team probably only has Bautista capable of replacing one of WAMCO. Hopefully Lawrie will rise to that status. Don't know about Rasmus vs White, but also hopefully. JPA is something to IMO consider? Again Borders or equivalent, as 1st string C IMO would be the weakest hitter in either line up.

Chuck - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 11:46 AM EST (#251994) #

The 2012 Jays team probably only has Bautista capable of replacing one of WAMCO.

In terms of OPS+, WAMCO did the following:
W 108
A 141
M 143
C 112
O 186

Bautista figures to slot in nicely for one of the big boys (A, M and O), but hopefully others can step forward and assume the W and C roles.  White and Carter were good, but not other worldly.

Parker - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 07:07 PM EST (#252004) #
It's not too much of a stretch to think Rasmus could match or beat White's OPS+. Lawrie could continue to hit at an Alomar/Molitor level. I don't think it'd be too difficult for a 1B platoon of Lind/EE to produce an OPS+ of 112. If Bautista doesn't regress, he covers Johnny O's production. The team doesn't really have another Alomar/Molitor-capable hitter, but if Rasmus really broke out, he could theoretically hit a 140 OPS+ and then Escobar takes over Rasmus' task of hitting better than Devon White. Or maybe Eric Thames does. Or Snider could finally figure out how to be a consistent threat at the plate.

The big issue though isn't the hitting, it's the pitching. The 1993 Jays might not have had the greatest pitching staff, but they were at least league average. Combined with that offense, you've got a powerhouse. It's a lot harder to contend as a great-hitting team if your pitching stinks. Just ask the Texas Rangers.

There is significant upside in the Jays' pitching though, so at least we have cause to hope for improvement.
Parker - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 07:13 PM EST (#252005) #
Huh, I don't know how I missed this, but the team actually pitched better than it hit last year. For some reason I was under the impression that the offense was above-average and the pitching was below. Turns out they were BOTH below, but hitting slightly more so than pitching. I guess having offensive black holes at 2B and CF will do that.

I still hold to my (irrational) belief that the team is more likely to hit well than pitch well this year.
Richard S.S. - Friday, February 17 2012 @ 10:13 PM EST (#252007) #

Huh, I don't know how I missed this, but...

I wrote under the CORE TALENT post about my opinion on the Starters.   If you assume 4-6 more wins by the Bullpen in fewer blown saves, 4-6 more wins by Starters because of who is not Starting for this club, 4-6 more wins by Offense/Defense, means this Team can contend.   It doesn't mean you are expecting hugh improvement, just not underachieving by anyone.

sam - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 12:12 AM EST (#252008) #
To possibly answer some previous questions on TV revenue

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/bruce-dowbiggin/how-the-blue-jays-dropped-the-ball/article2342993/page1/
jgadfly - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 01:15 AM EST (#252009) #

questions on TV revenue ...

     Wow ... doesn't that shoot alot of holes in the Rogers line  ... for a guy who loves to talk Beeston seemed to be in between the proverbial rock and a hard place ... somehow I don't think Dowbiggin was thanked as profusely for his questions as those in attendance at the State of the Franchise lovein ... and wouldn't the players union like to reopen the CBA with all those poor struggling owners

Mike Green - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 03:32 PM EST (#252015) #
The Dowbiggin article linked to above is pretty clear.  Rogers declined to be interviewed, and this is not really a surprise.  The only misleading thing is the headline- "dropped the ball" suggests that the organization made a mistake when negotiating with itself over broadcasting rights.  Cue masturbation humour. 
John Northey - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 03:47 PM EST (#252016) #
I figure the TV revenue is a shell game for the Jays. Basically, Rogers holds onto it until the Jays request it. They saw the mess under JPR and Ash (millions blown and no results) thus are saying 'build it first, then we'll give you cash'. Can't really blame them. Still would've liked it if they did get Darvish or something this winter though.
Ryan Day - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 04:18 PM EST (#252017) #
What a bizarre series of comments from Beeston:
“I don’t think anything affects team payroll,” Beeston said. “What affects team payroll is our ability to put a team on the field for what we think we can do.”
...
“The only thing that matters and should matter is what kind of team we put on the field and what type of dollars we have to build our organization. The last time I looked we had the dollars necessary to build a team.”

As Mike says, it's silly to frame this around the Jay "negotiating" with Sportsnet. Every division surely wants to be as profitable as possible, but it's still in Rogers' best interests to have all its parts operating smoothly. It doesn't matter if the Jays receive $5 or $5 million for broadcast rights, when the money is just moving from one Rogers account to another.
hypobole - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 06:52 PM EST (#252019) #

“I don’t think anything affects team payroll,” Beeston said. “What affects team payroll is our ability to put a team on the field for what we think we can do.”

Would someone please translate what he said? My level of reading comprehension seems to be no match for the team prez.

Beeston added that the Blue Jays are “spending more money than anybody in the amateur draft and in the international draft."

This seems to be one more for 92-93's "Paul Beeston Mendacity Collection"

In reading the article, and a number of reader comments, it affirmed my feelings about the the public's perceptions about the Jays. It almost seems that the team isn't thought of as the Toronto Blue Jays anymore, it's the Rogers Blue Jays.

If one were to do a poll about people's thoughts of Rogers, there would only need to be 3 choices:
1. I don't like Rogers
2. I hate Rogers.
3. Hate isn't a strong enough word to describe my feelings about Rogers.

Bernie Madoff would almost be perceived a charitable figure next to Rogers Corporation, because at least Madoff sucked money from people and institutions we neither particularly like or care about.

92-93 - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 08:00 PM EST (#252021) #
Nothing Beeston says ever makes any sense. Beeston is a used car salesman who will tell you whatever he needs to get to 5 minutes from now.

For the record, the Jays are most definitely not spending more than anybody in the amateur and international market. Just another one of his blatant lies.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, February 18 2012 @ 09:03 PM EST (#252023) #
What kills me about Beeston is he says stuff as if he thinks no one is listening, or will remember anything he said.  It's like he doesn't realize his words are being recorded, and will be compared to his future words and actions.
gnor - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 07:08 AM EST (#252024) #
I am not going to dig up figures for you, but consider this: The Blue Jays farm system rose from near the bottom of the pack in 2009 to top 3 or 4 this year. If you can tell me how that happened without an huge investment in scouting, player development, and signing bonuses, I will be happy to listen. In the meantime, maybe you could tell us which teams spent more in the "amateur and international market".
gnor - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 07:11 AM EST (#252025) #
Interesting post. They say hitting is contagious, and this may be part of the explanation.
bpoz - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 09:37 AM EST (#252028) #
Thanks for your input on WAMCO Chuck.

Using baseball- reference I looked up some facts.

Pitching lost Key, Cone & Henke. Unless proven otherwise the replacements were weaker. Ageing #1 pitchers may not perform as #1s any more, which is a factor.

If this were the off season before 1993...
Stewart replaces one of Key, Cone and A Leiter replaces the other. For Henke..?----IMO an obvious weakening.
For hitting Molitor for Winfield is basically even, Fernandez for Manny Lee was huge & Maldonado for ? was probably positive, mainly due to consistency.
If this is the off season before 1993, should I be concerned? Molly wanted his WS ring, so the Jay's interest was a cherry on top for his HOF career. Tony, Mosby and a few others IMO would always welcome any Jay's interest.

The above writing was mainly for my enjoyment in putting words to fond memories.

But having a point to this would be good. How about not messing with what works, if possible that is. I am not saying that we closed our own window, but 94,95 & 96 were the beginning of our slide. Timlin (92) comes in but Ward gets injured so no more Henke/Ward. Maybe that made it inevitable. So Ash had a partial rebuild on his hands. Delgado, Green, Stewart & A Gon1 was a head start. The pitching would never be the same. Guzman & Hentgen were a strong base Stottlemyre & Leiter were not bad for 4th & 5th rotation spots. But overall the pitching was probably weak & definitely not deep. Of course this is in hind sight.

For a 2nd point to all this, AA chose a total rebuild as his strategy. No position players that he inherited are left. Lind was not his 1st baseman. His inherited pitchers were IMO not strong enough to contend in the AL East. Halladay, Romero, Marcum, Litsch, Janssen, League, Fraser & Downs, Camp. This and a bunch of kids were certainly not proven.
Changing practically everything and suffering for it, makes some sense?? For 2012 his hand seems to be full of wild cards. However clearly his players are younger and many are saying that there is unproven talent in the organization. At this time young & high talent levels are probably a good point to be at.


John Northey - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 11:00 AM EST (#252031) #
Lets compare 2009 (last year JPR ran the show) to 2012 probable (this year) OPS+ in brackets for 2011
CA: Barajas (97) vs JP Arencibia (90)
1B: Overbay (85) vs Lind (95)
2B: Hill (76) vs Johnson (93)
3B: Rolen (82) vs Lawrie (152)
SS: Scutaro (110) vs Escobar (111)
LF: Snider (65) vs Snider or Thames (104)
CF: Wells (83) vs Rasmus (89)
RF: Rios (65) vs Bautista (181)
DH: Lind (95) vs Encarnacion (110)

So 2 guys are still starting (sorta) who were in 2009 - Lind (moved to 1B) and Snider (if he starts).

As to how the replacements have done...
Better: 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, CF, RF, DH
Worse: CA
Tie: SS (1 point might as well be a tie)

Surprising actually. I figured a few more positions would've been a drop and I wouldn't have thought Barajas had a better (offensive) year than JPA last year without looking it up. Is there a single position you'd do a 1 for 1 trade for there?
Ryan Day - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 11:53 AM EST (#252034) #
The awesomeness of WAMCO was largely based on several career years. Olerud easily had his best year ever, and both White & Alomar were at or near their career best. Alomar's 1993 was his best season to date and best as a Jay, and Devo was coming off a lousy 1992, and was a fairly erratic hitter.

The Jays have a number of players who could bust out and play at a high level - Rasmus, Johnson, and Lind have all had All-Star calibre seasons, and it's not impossible for Lawrie, Snider, or Arencibia to step it up. (Lawrie, admittedly, doesn't really need to "step up" as much as "continue being awesome.")

But of course, who knows what'll happen? Jose Bautista might slip down to mortal levels, in which case the rest of the team would need to make big improvements just to stay still.
John Northey - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 12:08 PM EST (#252035) #
So very true. If everyone hits like they did last year we'd have 2 superstars (Bautista, Lawrie), 2 above average hitter (Escobar, Encarnacion), 1 average hitter (Thames) and 4 sub-par hitters. Would that be enough? Would they be likely to repeat? Sadly the least likely to repeat would be Bautista & Lawrie. Johnson & Rasmus should both be better though, and one hopes we can get more than a 104 OPS+ out of the regular LF'er (Thames, Snider, whoever).
hypobole - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 12:14 PM EST (#252036) #
Interesting numbers, John. What is truly amazing about the ongoing rebuild of the team is that is has been a lot more painless than most. The position players who left provided little major league talent in return. The farm system when AA took over was weak. Incoming free agents have all been relatively inexpensive.
Compare the Jays rebuild to Baltimore's. The Orioles have been one of the bottom 5 teams in MLB for 6 years in a row. Yet the Jays major league talent is better and the minor league talent is better. And the Orioles managed to outspend the Jays by almost $20 million per season the past couple of years.
Gerry - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 12:28 PM EST (#252038) #

I am not surprised the Jays refused to comment, it seems like the author had a point of view before he started writing.

There were a couple of points in the story that I thought were odd. Here is a quote:

Because of revenue-sharing arrangements among MLB teams, MLB employs a firm in Denver, Bortz Media and Sports Group, to conduct assessments of markets to monitor TV rights values. According to sources, the Blue Jays roughly adhere to the formula provided by MLB in its TV payments to the club.

I read that to say the Rogers TV rights payment is in line with market values, even though the tone of the rest of the story is that it is not.

The other point that I thought was stretching numbers was the descriptions of the 20 year deals and the average value. If you actually calculate a present value for the 20 years, assuming healthy inflation in annual TV rights, a $150M average annual value is worth $80M today, based on a 6% inflation rate. That is still a lot more than the reported $36M the Jays are receiving but using the AAV overstates the differential.

At the end of the day this is a payroll argument. Even if Rogers paid more or less than the $36M there is no guarantee the payroll will change. The salary budget is not 100% aligned with the revenue budget. In my opinion it's fine to talk about the salary budget, but the revenue discussion is essentially Rogers internal accounting and not necessarily related to the payroll.

Mike Green - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 04:44 PM EST (#252040) #
That is true, Gerry.  However, when the organization points out that attendance isn't great and draws the connection between payroll and attendance, this is the logical response.  The author of the article also did not point out the internet/cable connection.  Viewers of the Jays in Buffalo on mlb.com are not blacked out from watching the Jays live, while viewers of the Jays in Vancouver are.  The lack of blackout for Buffalo negatively affects live attendance revenue, while the blackout for Vancouver protects cable revenue. 
Gerry - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 04:52 PM EST (#252041) #
Yes Mike. I will say that I don't believe the spin from the business side of the front office. I will believe all stories about payroll when I see them. Basically I don't pay too much attention to payroll issues, they can aggravate one without the opportunity to do anything about it. Serenity now.
Parker - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 06:24 PM EST (#252042) #
What kills me about Beeston is he says stuff as if he thinks no one is listening, or will remember anything he said. It's like he doesn't realize his words are being recorded, and will be compared to his future words and actions.

I'd agree with you on most of his comments. However, there was this:

"I don’t have to say whether it’s accurate or not. But I don’t understand where [The Globe] comes up with the number."

His refusal to confirm or deny something that might be outed as an obvious lie in the future seemed like the work of a career politician.

What I don't get is why Beeston agreed to allow Dowbiggin to quote him on ANY of that stuff. Beeston's answers really didn't have any value at all, but they sure generated a lot of negative discussion. He's not a moron; he must've known how his responses would've sounded. This is more the sort of condescending rhetoric I would've expected from J.P. "It's Not a Lie if We Know the Truth" Ricciardi.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, February 19 2012 @ 06:33 PM EST (#252043) #

Way back, somewhere/time - after 2008 or 2009 (possibly in or after very early 2009) - Blue Jays were running a deficit.   A higher up at Rogers said, something to the effect; profits, losses, even payroll of the Team doesn't influence the Bottom Line, it's all discretionary funds.   I am sorry I can't be more specific, or have a better memory, although I think it was mentioned on this site back then.

Rogers is a Billion Dollar Business, the sum of money involved in running the Baseball Business is insignificant to the bottom line.   I think how, when and why you spend the money is more important than what you spend.

If you consider the top 10 teams in MLB, compare our roster as to who would be on those teams.   I think you will find possibly 2 Starters, possibly 4 Relievers, possibly 1 Outfield, possibly 3 Infield and possibly 1 or 2 on the Bench.   I am disappointed we didn`t get Darvish or Fielder, I just don`t think they`d help us enough right now.   Adam Lind`s options start the year Votto is a free agent, in case in-house options underpreform, as they might.   As good as Johnson is, 2B looks to be a long going need throughout the System.   Escobar is under control for 4 years, and as good as Hechavarria might be, who the next ones will be is a mystery.   Brett Lawrie might just possibly be a Hall Of Famer, he`ll still get hurt and the next best thing is a long way off.   And I could go on...

But make no mistake, Darvish and Fielder would help us compete this year, they would just need a lot of help.  Until the minors develop more, we`ll need money to compete, then more money...

bpoz - Wednesday, February 22 2012 @ 06:52 PM EST (#252153) #
Guys, I still cannot understand the math for some of these stats.

For example A Lind in 2011. 499AB, 125H, 32BB, 16doubles & 26HR.
Avg= 125/499=.251 OK Here.
OBP= (125+32)/499=.315 not .295
SLG= ?
OPS= OBP+SLG=.295+.439=.734 OK again.

In my further analysis, each batter can come to the plate with the bases full or empty. This is not in his control, instead it is his team mates.
How fast does the runner at 1B have to be to score on a 2B...avg or above avg.
This analysis can get deeper & deeper.
Paul D - Wednesday, February 22 2012 @ 07:10 PM EST (#252154) #
bpoz, OBP is based on plate appearances, not at bats.

SLG is total bases divided by at bats.
bpoz - Thursday, February 23 2012 @ 11:34 AM EST (#252164) #
Thanks Paul D.
John Northey - Thursday, February 23 2012 @ 01:45 PM EST (#252172) #
A nice easy way to get definitions is to go to any team or player page at Baseball-Reference.com and hold your mouse over the stat you are wondering about. It gives a nice quick definition which, imo, was a great idea on their part.
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