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It is the middle of August and this qualifies as a "playing out the string" game. Both the Rays and Jays were active in trading away some of their prized assets in July so the remainders will take the field tonight.

From the pre-game chatter, Marcus Stroman will test his finger today to see if he can pitch on Sunday. Giiby has gone on the record, again, as saying if there is going to be a full rebuild he needs to get out of here so he is making it easy for the front office to get rid of him, if they want to. Gibby might have been saving his major league manager money over the last few years and will be happy to go home and sit on the porch.



Friday, 7pm: Blake Snell vs. Marcus Stroman

Saturday, 4pm: TBD vs. Sam Gaviglio

Sunday, 1pm: Tyler Glasnow vs. Marcus Stroman

Let us know how many of the Tampa players you have heard of before? Kiermaier is there, and Gomez. But Wendle, Choi, Bauers, Adames, Lowe? I am kidding, sort-of, but the rebuild in Tampa is in full swing, again.

Rays at Blue Jays - Aug 10-12 | 50 comments | Create New Account
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hypobole - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#363571) #
If we merge the Blue Jays and Rays into one team, the "Blue Rays" would be 50.5 games behind the Red Sox.

Anyway , my bold prediction: No Tampa starter will throw a complete game in this series.
85bluejay - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#363572) #
Given the Jays rotten luck this season, Estrada throws up a stinker and tanks his trade value.
85bluejay - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#363573) #
I think Gibby knows he's gone and after staying home next year on his paid salary - Jays organisation will probably welcome him back as a consultant/scout or something - so Gibby will be nice as he walks the plank.
hypobole - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#363574) #
Gerry, I didn't know of Wendle and Choi, but the other 3 are/were real prospects. Definitely Willy Adames who was part of the David Price deal with the Tigers and Jake Bauers, part of the Myers trade with SD. Tampa has 3 frikkin Lowes, 2 of whom are brothers and all Top 30 prospects. No clue which one is in the majors.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#363575) #
Jays organisation will probably welcome him back as a consultant/scout or something - so Gibby will be nice as he walks the plank.

Be nice as opposed to what? What would he otherwise do?
hypobole - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#363576) #
One other thing, Gerry. Is Marcus going to test his finger by starting today and Sunday? Or is Estrada starting tonight disguised as Stroman?
hypobole - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#363581) #
Why do the Rays constantly make the Jays look like a bunch of rookies up from A ball?
Vulg - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#363582) #
Why do the Rays constantly make the Jays look like a bunch of rookies up from A ball?

It's pretty maddening and reminds me of Brewers vs. Jays when they were still in the AL.
Gerry - Friday, August 10 2018 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#363583) #
I was at the game tonight. Pannone looks very slight on the mound, his fastball was topping out at 89 on the stadium gun. He doesn't have much margin for error.

Now that Pannone has pitched today who pitches Monday? SRF is a possibility.
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 08:28 AM EDT (#363585) #
I will admit that I was expecting a little bit more out of Pannone. He does seem to have some deception, but had a lot better control than command really.
vw_fan17 - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#363586) #
hypobole in the Red Sox thread: To those who think the Jays going to drop in the overall standings, who exactly is going to pass us? The 2 teams closest are Texas and Cinci. Cinci has 10 games left vs teams below us in the standings. Texas has 3. We have 16.

Apparently, we have another 12 games left against the Rays.. So, 2-10, and yeah, we have a shot to move down :-)
Magpie - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#363587) #
Jays organisation will probably welcome [Gibbons] back as a consultant/scout or something

On the other hand, Gibby's old boss is now running the Atlanta Braves, and their manager will be 63 years old in a couple of months. Snitker's spent almost 30 years as an organizational soldier and I'm sure he's enjoying his moment, at long last. But if they stumble next year....
John Northey - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#363588) #
Jays right now are in the 'meh' pile at the middle.  In the 450-550 winning percentage group (IE: not good enough to win, not bad enough to get a top draft pick) along with Colorado, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa Bay, LA Angels, SF, and Minnesota.  Really, these are 522 to 455.  Jays are at the bottom end. 

Interesting looking at BR and MLB wins above Avg by position.  Jays are top 15 (top half of MLB) at CA (#6!), 1B (9th), CF (13th).  16-20th for PH & RF, 21st or worse for... #21 at relief, starting, overall OF, overall non-pitching, 24th for overall, pitching, 2B, SS, 26th for LF, 27th at 3B, DH.  Note: Boston is dead last at 3B - Rafael Devers is doing good as a 21 year old but overall not well enough, wonder if they might be interested in Donaldson if he can get healthy pre-September as he'd be perfect for them - just a month on the contract then a free agent so Devers could take it back over in 2019 if they want, or they could blow a fortune and resign him.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#363589) #
Vlad homered. Again.
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 11 2018 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#363590) #
Solarte down, time to bring Jansen up so Martin plays 3B from time to time? Urena down, J-Leb up?
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#363592) #
There are rumors that Janssen will be called up and Martin will play a more utility role.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 07:56 AM EDT (#363593) #
Also more rumors that SRF is in Toronto and will get the start on Monday.

Watching Stroman, Sanchez, SRF, Borucki, Pannone, Gurriel and Jannsen will give some reason to watch the Jays the rest of the season.

It is amazing that a few call-ups later and the team suddenly looks a lot more promising. I hope that continues in September with Tellez, Pompey and McKinney getting some burn while sitting Morales, Granderson and maybe some Pillar. Overall I think McKinney could probably fill the role of left handed corner outfielder that Granderson held this year.




ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#363595) #
Watching Stroman, Sanchez, SRF, Borucki, Pannone, Gurriel and Jannsen will give some reason to watch the Jays the rest of the season.

I suspect Aaron Sanchez' days as a starter may be coming to an end. In 2017 and 2018, he's pitched a total of only 115 innings. One suggestion has been that the torque is too much for his fingers. I wonder if he could succeed as a reliever, and a new role in set-up or even closing.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#363596) #
I've also wondered that about Sanchez. Since he's had success relieving, and with Osuna gone now, he might be the next closer.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#363597) #
I am not sure how jamming your finger has anything to do with throwing a baseball.

dalimon5 - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#363598) #
Sanchez should finish out the year, come back strong in '19 and then be traded for a strong haul of prospects. If he doesn't improve his stock then move him to the bullpen or 3/4 starter. Stroman should hopefully finish strong and be traded this winter.

Sign one or two rebound candidates and wait for the rest of the farm.

Trade Travis sign Lemahieu
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#363599) #
I am not sure how jamming your finger has anything to do with throwing a baseball.

That's because the word 'jam' is not very helpful at all. He didn't jam his finger in a car door. The fingers on his pitching hand have been the cause of him missing most of the last two seasons.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#363600) #
"The Blue Jays remained vague in the details of how the injury occurred. Sanchez said, "That's not important," when asked how it happened, but he did say he jammed his finger before arriving at Angel Stadium for his start."

He didn't provide much details, but it didn't happen in a game. If the cause of the his current injury isn't game related, why would this affect how the Jays use him in a game situation?

I am worried about blisters moving forward, but this latest injury doesn't affect those concerns in the slightest. If the Jays used him as a starter this season after last year's blister issues then they will continue to do so after this latest injury.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#363601) #
I think Monday in KC is a great place to try out Sean Reid-Foley. He'll be in against one of the lightest hitting teams in the league. Here's hoping he can avoid walks, he's done better in Buffalo at that than previously in his minor-league career.

His next start would be in YS next weekend. They'll be missing Judge and Sanchez.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#363602) #
Bobby Meacham is reported to have informed Danny Jansen by saying "Kid. You're going to the big leagues. I don't want to see you again." I like it.
Chuck - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#363603) #
Three injuries later (Gurriel, Drury, Solarte) and Martin can start living his dream of being an infielder, unimpeded by competition. At least until Donaldson comes back. If Donaldson comes back. He wants to come back and establish some cred for this off-season, no? Or is it too late for that?
PeterG - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#363604) #
Donaldson will likely be traded within days of returning.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#363605) #
He wants to come back and establish some cred for this off-season, no? Or is it too late for that?

He could come back and hit for a .757 OPS, which is what he was doing before he left. He could also come back and injure his calf again. He may decide he's better off just rehabbing the rest of the season and then trying to sell some team on a 'everything is fine' story in the offseason. I imagine he'll not get close to the money Toronto offered him earlier in the year. He's 33 next year, with a sharp performance decline, and a chronic injury risk. If he can come back soon, he could potentially be moved to the Indians, who have to replace the DL"d Encarnacion. But there's not a lot of time to come back for a guy who can't sprint and hasn't been able to for three months.
cybercavalier - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#363606) #
Can Donaldson's injuries be compared to Josh Reddick's? Reddick injured and the Dodgers released him; the Astros signed hm afterwards for a multi year contract with much more cash than his Oakland's. Donaldson injured and has been disabled for months so his future contract can be unaffected by his current injury.
Gerry - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#363607) #
Jansen, Reid-Foley, Gurriel, Borucki, Pannone.....now lets see what we have.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#363608) #
The Blue Jays have graduated so few prospects in the last 3 years it is strange to see so many up at once.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#363610) #
When trading Players in August, waivers come into effect. Players either clear waivers or are claimed. The earlier in August the better the return but quality is not a consideration. Trading someone with term is another story. Impact players should come back. That being said, who the Jays have put on waivers is a mystery. Have they done anything?
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#363611) #
Marco Estrada was claimed on revocable waivers about one hour before his last stinker. He spends a lot of time worrying about that, occasionally it shows when he pitches. Itís unlikely he will get traded, the return offer might not be good enough. John Gibbons says he needs him to pitch for them, but do they?
Gerry - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#363613) #
Danny Barnes being demoted for SRF.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#363614) #
Through the time before the first ever Jayís Game until the strike/lockout in 1994, it was a very special time to be a Jaysí fan. The 2015 mid-Season through the start of the 2017 Season was another very special time for new and old Jaysí fans. When that special time returns no one knows.

In the period without playoffs the Jaysí never earned a top three Draft Pick. The lowest they drafted had one of the worst drafting G.M.s at itís helm. Despite that there was a lot of good talent acquired via the draft. A.A. drafted well, but with all the extra picks he didnít always maximize his returns. The new hires have been drafting very well, hopeful with continued success.

The Jays regularly win too much to get a top draft pick and they lose too much to get in the post-Season. Itís what I call the mushy middle. Hopefully the drafting continues to be at least as sucessful as it has been.
cybercavalier - Sunday, August 12 2018 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#363615) #
Do Pillar and Granderson feature a good RHB and LHB outfield combo?
Glevin - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 06:15 AM EDT (#363617) #
" A.A. drafted well, but with all the extra picks he didnít always maximize his returns."

The Jays drafts 2011-2015 were awful and a big reason why the system was in such bad shape for so long. Players picked in the first 2 rounds in this period. Beede (unsigned), Anderson, Musgrove, Smith, Comer, Norris, Gabryzewski, Davis, Stroman, Smoral, May, Gonzalez, DeJong, Bickford (unsigned), Hollon, Hoffman, Pentacost, SRF, Harris, Singer (unsigned). That is 20 picks (17 with the 3 who didn't sign) in the first 2 rounds in 5 years including 14 in the first and first sandwich rounds. Draft picks are always a bit of a crapshoot but you need to hit on more picks than this.
lexomatic - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#363618) #
If you are using them for trades that counts too.
hypobole - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#363620) #
Trades have nothing to do with how well a team drafts. They are independent of each other.

bpoz - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#363621) #
Trades and drafts are interdependent on each other. Philadelphia's good drafting got them Halladay.
The Cubs? got A Chapman for their strong drafts.
dalimon5 - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#363623) #
Trading good draft picks (at the time of trade) for quality players counts in my books as good drafting. If you are stuck with those picks and don't trade them for quality players then it is bad drafting.

Literally speaking, it is bad drafting because of how those players turned out, but realistically, that's not what people are referring to when they talk about the quality of AA's drafts. If he drafted busts but was able to trade them before they "busted" then that makes it even more impressive.

AA was a great GM but had a big flaw and that was trading away prospects...he either traded away too much for the wrong players (Reyes/Dickey) or didn't trade enough (never traded anything significant again except Barreto for JD). Lawrie was a ML player when traded.

What he did that I loved was trade high end prospects (at the time - Norris, Hoffman) for standouts David Price and Troy Tulowitzki. But alas, for me, that was not AA the GM that was AA the guy who lost his job and was given 3 months to run the job without worrying about keeping his job in TO.
85bluejay - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#363624) #
Of course, the ago old question is did a team draft poorly or develop players poorly or both - J.P. Ricciardi regime I think did both poorly.
John Northey - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#363625) #
Glevin... tough crowd.  Stroman has been solid (barely less WAR than Syndergaard who was drafted a year earlier and more than Sanchez also drafted in 2010), Musgrove is over 2 WAR now most of it this year for Pittsburgh (he was part of the J.A. Happ trade).    Hoffman  has flopped so far for Colorado but was key in getting Tulo.  Bickford didn't sign, then looked great for the Brewers (drafted later and traded there by the Giants) and was caught twice on minor substances...now a reliever with a poor looking future due to wildness. Beede also unsigned but has reached after signing elsewhere with crazy wildness this year (7 BB/9 in AAA, 9.4 in majors). 

Since 2011 the Jays have had 4 picks in the top half of the draft (#15 or higher) - Bickford, Pentecost, Hoffman and Groshans.  A DND, flop, trade piece, and who knows.  Bottom line is this is way too early to know about these drafts for certain.  Around 2025 we'll be certain.
John Northey - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#363629) #
For 5 year stretches lets take a look...

  • 1977-1980: a bit short, 4 picks, 3 in the top 3, only Lloyd Moseby made the majors (27.5 WAR)
  • 1981-1985: 3 top 10 picks, 3 made the majors but only John Cerutti had more than 15 games, getting 6.6 WAR
  • 1986-1990: no top 10 picks, 4 reached the majors with Steve Karsay  at 11.1 WAR the best, next is Ed Sprague 5.4, the other 2 flopped with -0.6 WAR each.
  • 1991-1995:now things get interesting - no top 10 picks but lots of extras (12 picks in 5 years).  Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter, Shawn Green, Shannon Stewart all cracked 20 WAR, sadly the only ones to crack 1 WAR as well in this time frame of the 9 who reached.  The others were all below 0 WAR.
  • 1996-2000:3 top 10 picks, 8 picks overall.  Vernon Wells and Alex Rios both cracked 20 WAR (actually over 27 each).  Felipe Lopez and Billy Koch  both over 5 WAR.  Dustin McGowan  and Joe Lawrence  both reached but neither cracked 2 WAR.
  • 2001-2005:6 picks, all reached, just 1 in the top 10 picks.  Aaron Hill at 23 WAR the only one over 10, although Ricky Romero came close.  Gabe Gross was a decent 4th OF, David Purcey barely cracked 0 WAR (0.1), while Russ Adams  is the definition of replacement level (0.0 WAR lifetime).
  • 2006-2010:13 picks, 11 made it with a few standouts.  Noah Syndergaard best at 11.6, James Paxton 10.6 (did not sign), funny how Noah was signed as a replacement for not signing Paxton.  Aaron Sanchez close behind in the 9's, Brett Cecil  over 7, Travis Snider a 'so much potential' 4.3.  J.P. Arencibia at 2.0 and the rest below that.
  • 2011-2015:1 top 10 pick, 15 picks overall, 5 reaching so far Marcus Stroman  at 11.3 easily the best with Joe Musgrove the only other one over 0.5 WAR so far.
  • 2016-now: No top 10 picks yet, none reaching of the 4 picked. 

Drafts take a long time to know what worked, or didn't work. 
cybercavalier - Monday, August 13 2018 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#363634) #
For 5 year stretches lets take a look. Drafts take a long time to know what worked, or didn't work.

Only 25 men are there on each team and 30 MLB teams in 2018 season, not to mention that there were less team and thus less roster space in previous seasons. Regarding individual players, Travis Snider and Ricky Romero are still playing professional baseball at high levels of minor leagues in North America.
ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, August 14 2018 @ 07:23 AM EDT (#363652) #
Man, Ricky Romero was one of my all-time disappointments as a player. He went from being an ace in 2011 ( 15-11 record, 2.92 ERA, 225 innings giving up just 176 hits ) to 5.77 ERA the next year. !n 2013 he pitched only 7 innings, couldn't get anyone out and was out of the organization by 2014.
scottt - Tuesday, August 14 2018 @ 09:47 AM EDT (#363657) #
Players drafted in the first rounds of the draft will have high trade value in their first couple of years.
Especially now, if you spend millions signing guys, they better have trade value the following 2 years.

bpoz - Tuesday, August 14 2018 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#363660) #
Very good point scottt.
scottt - Tuesday, August 14 2018 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#363663) #
Players drafted in the first rounds of the draft will have high trade value in their first couple of years.
Especially now, if you spend millions signing guys, they better have trade value the following 2 years.

ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, August 14 2018 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#363665) #
Very good point scottt.
Rays at Blue Jays - Aug 10-12 | 50 comments | Create New Account
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