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Now that you have reviewed the top 30, itís time to consider those who did not make it.

Just Missed

The unluckiest was Gabriel Moreno who was named on three of the four ballots. Moreno had a breakout season but when you are 18 and playing in the GCL and Bluefield, it can be hard to get people to believe in you. By this time next year Moreno should be on the top 30 without any issue. Moreno hit .359 between the two stops this season and has great bat control.

Another catcher was close too. Alejandro Kirk was on two of the four ballots but came in 32nd. Kirk outplayed Hagen Danner, who did make the top 30, but Kirk has some physical issues that need to be resolved. To be more blunt, Kirk is oversized, or too fat, and needs to trim down to be considered a prospect. Kirk turned 20 a couple of weeks ago. Many Mexican players tend to be on the bigger side. If Kirk gets on a Blue Jay approved program over the winter he could look different by the spring. Despite that Kirk can really hit, he had an OPS over 1000 in Bluefield and his catching was decent too.

Jonathan Davis picked up a couple of votes. He had an excellent season including making his major league debut. He is older but he has continued to develop.

Otto Lopez got just one vote but it was the highest vote of those who missed. Lopez is very versatile but that can hurt him. Usually prospects get to play their position. The fact that Lopez bounces around the diamond suggests the Jays donít know what his position is. But he can hit.

Others getting one vote included Leonardo Jimenez; Josh Winkowski, Sean Wymer and Santiago Espinal. The first three played in short season leagues so still have time to produce. Espinal came over for Steve Pearce and did OK in New Hampshire and in the fall league but he hasnít stood out yet.


Dropped from the list.

The seven who dropped from last years list are: Justin Maese, Jon Harris, Yeltsin Gudino, Zach Jackson, Angel Perdomo, Kevin Vicuna and Josh Palacios. Of those Maese had surgery so his future is uncertain. Vicuna is often talked up by Blue Jay insiders and journalists as being a good prospect. He hasnít shown it at the plate yet but he is still young at 20 years old. Josh Palacios has been somewhat inconsistent, but he has shown flashes of potential. He had a great April and August, but didnít play as well in between. He turned 23 mid-season so next year will be his show me season. And Perdomo has left the organization.


Traded for, but not on the top 30

Julian Merryweather and Jacob Waguespack look like four A, sixth starter types, although the Jays did just add Waguespack to the 40 man roster. David Paulino is ticketed for the bullpen. Forrest Wall, somewhat like Espinal, hasnít done enough to claim a place. Demi Orimoloye came over late and the Jays didnít get a chance to have a look at him. Chad Spanberger seems like a first base type who has been eclipsed by Ryan Noda.


Surprised?

Among those who some might be surprised to not be on the list are Cal Stevenson who hit really well after being drafted this year. Many college bats hit the ground running until they get to Lansing, or sometimes Dunedin. If Stevenson passes the Lansing test, he should be on the list next season.

Yennsy Diaz made great progress this year at a young age but is he rotation or bullpen bound? The Jays added him to their 40 man roster so they are hopeful he can start. Diaz pitched well for Lansing but was less effective in Dunedin. He pitched this year at age 21. Maximo Castillo also had a good season but he doesnít throw hard, that seems to be a requirement these days.

Blue Jays 2018 Top Prospects - Almost | 100 comments | Create New Account
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85bluejay - Thursday, November 22 2018 @ 06:20 PM EST (#367985) #
Good for the system that some guys having encouraging years couldn't make the top 30 - Moreno,Paulino,Diaz and Merryweather would be in my top 30.

A shout-out to Cullen Large, who was tracking for some top 30 consideration until the injury bug hit - hope he's healthy next year, I'm intrigued.
TamRa - Thursday, November 22 2018 @ 10:50 PM EST (#367988) #
My list with notes:
1) VGJ
2) Bo
3) Jansen - don't really have to comment on these three, right?
4) Pearson - actually think his ceiling is higher but so is risk
5) Alford - I still believe
6) Pardino - the potential 1-2 in a few years could be insane
7) Gorshans - the guy who'll make it easy to move Vladito to 1B in 3-4 yrs
8) SRF - just keep polishing
9) Smith - Between him, LGJ, and Biggio there could be a hella flexible bench
10) H. Perez - take some comfort in the fallback bullpen option
11) C Biggio - lack of defensive home is mild concern, if he hits that way again and can be competent in LF it would be plus
12) D Paulino - I feel like he's getting overlooked, he'd be first in line for a shot at #5 for me if he does well at ST
13) O Martinez - just based on published reports
14) M Hiraldo - ditto
15) P Murphy - feel  like we still haven't seen/realized how good he can be
16) A Kloffenstein - published reports of course
17) TJ Zuech - lack of K numbers concerns me. Wouldn't mind seeing if he could flesh out a trade
18) G Conine - despite the suspension
19) B McKinney - can't get a read on him, cautious about reading too much into early Toronto games
20) L Warmoth - can't bail this quick
21) Y. Diaz - maybe not one of the 5 best ST in the end but probably plays up nicely in a p'pen
22) T Thornton - benefit of the doubt?
23) T Pannone - just on the fringe unless he plays up in relief. major league capable, not major league impressive
24) J Romano - the relief projectability and feel good story keep me interested in him
25) R Noda - need to see how this plays at AA before I'm sure
26) R Tellez - believed from the start because I want to live in a world where my team has a guy named Rowdy. but not premium maybe?
27) R Adams - should be higher, this is a function of a well stocked system.
28) C Young - intriguing but dunno how the bat plays in the upper minors yet
29) M Pentecost - I can't quit him. Not yet.
30) J Maese - don't think we should forget him
31) J McLelland - all about the velo baby
32) T Bergen - I fall in love with effective Lefties, often get disappointed
33) H Danner - expect him to climb
34) Z Logue - see Bergen
35) F Wall - not sold
36) S Taylor - really not sold, this is based on industry voices I see written up
37) L Jiminez - just because Gil Kim loves him so
38) J. Merryweather - benefit of the doubt
39) R McGuire - Luke Maile 2.0, has value but not the kind hat puts one in the top 20
40) J Waugespack - Only because they protected him, I had him in the 50s before that
41) B Lundquist - the 40's re where my "watch out for this guy" candidates fall
42) C. Stevenson - loves the numbers but college guy in Bluefield, show me that in Lansing or Dunedin
43) J. Davis - just a guy IMO, still think Pompey is markedly better
44) M. Castillo - they assigned him to full season at 18, tells me they see something
45) S Espinal - watchful waiting
46) Z Jackson - if he could only find the zone
47) J Palacios - intriguing enough to watch, not impressive enough to sell me yet
48) K. Vicuna - ONLY because he keeps coming up in published articles, I'm a skeptic
49) G Moreno - will know more a year from now
50) A Kirk - ditto

This is my list as of the moment, during the season i update it about every 3 weeks or so, in the offseason I might adjust it every time I get some new info - either a scouting report or something like "Oh? They sent him to the AFL? What are they seeing?" type of reaction - because once out of the top 15 it's all very fungible anyway. If you told me I really ought to swap 18 and 28, I would feel it worthwhile to debate you. So if i saw where  someone, say Hulet or McDaniels, said "I really think Chavez Young's bat will play as he reaches the high minors," I might very well go and bump him up 3 or 4 spots just on that note. ut as on11/22, this is my best guess.

Bonus: I assume that VGJ, SRF, Jansen, Pannone and Paulino will graduate next year - Probably McKinney and Thornton too

Rough guess at top 12 a year from now:
1. Bo
2. Pearson
3. Pardinho
4. Groshans
5. Alford (if he doesn't take the next step and graduate which if Pillar is gone he very much might)
6. Murphy
7. Kloffenstien
8. Hiraldo
9. Biggio
10. Smith
11. Martinez
with the caveat that the #1 pick will be in there somewhere, maybe as high as #5, but i don't know exactly obviously

Richard S.S. - Thursday, November 22 2018 @ 11:06 PM EST (#367989) #
Thank You TamRa, good list.
Mylegacy - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 01:09 AM EST (#367993) #
TamRa's list with notes: (Mylegacy's comments)
1) VGJ
2) Bo
3) Jansen - don't really have to comment on these three, right? (Agreed)
4) Pearson - actually think his ceiling is higher but so is risk (Agreed)
5) Alford - I still believe (Wish I did - but I don't)
6) Pardino - the potential 1-2 in a few years could be insane (Agree(ish) - his size scares me.)
7) Gorshans - the guy who'll make it easy to move Vladito to 1B in 3-4 yrs (I'm very interested in watching this guy grow)
8) SRF - just keep polishing (Lots of room for more polishing)
9) Smith - Between him, LGJ, and Biggio there could be a hella flexible bench (Agree 100%)
10) H. Perez - take some comfort in the fallback bullpen option (I'm very excited - he comes together - WOW)
11) C Biggio - lack of defensive home is mild concern, if he hits that way again and can be competent in LF it would be plus (Lazarus - given up for dead but back and kicking)
12) D Paulino - I feel like he's getting overlooked, he'd be first in line for a shot at #5 for me if he does well at ST (I 100% Agree - did I mention 100%?)
13) O Martinez - just based on published reports (Agree - but might be scary good)
14) M Hiraldo - ditto (See above)
15) P Murphy - feel like we still haven't seen/realized how good he can be (Agree)
16) A Kloffenstein - published reports of course (Ditto)
17) TJ Zuech - lack of K numbers concerns me. Wouldn't mind seeing if he could flesh out a trade (Yep)
18) G Conine - despite the suspension (Me - not so much)
19) B McKinney - can't get a read on him, cautious about reading too much into early Toronto games (4th OFer)
20) L Warmoth - can't bail this quick (If the ship's sinking - an' I thinks she be - bail!)
21) Y. Diaz - maybe not one of the 5 best ST in the end but probably plays up nicely in a p'pen (Or more)
22) T Thornton - benefit of the doubt? (I'm VERY intrigued)
23) T Pannone - just on the fringe unless he plays up in relief. major league capable, not major league impressive (Yep. Pannone is our projected fifth starter in 2019. Sanchez has no fingers. Stroman has no shoulder. Reid-Foley is just beginning to learn this "pitching thing" and Borucki is the only "star (sic)" - YIKES - some of the other guys on this list better become butterfly's fast. It's hard to get to the World Series with five starting caterpillars.)
24) J Romano - the relief projectability and feel good story keep me interested in him (Ya but to me that interest is on its last legs)
25) R Noda - need to see how this plays at AA before I'm sure (BUT - I'm reasonably sure I'll be sure)
26) R Tellez - believed from the start because I want to live in a world where my team has a guy named Rowdy. but not premium maybe? (Yep)
27) R Adams - should be higher, this is a function of a well stocked system. (Not a big fan)
28) C Young - intriguing but dunno how the bat plays in the upper minors yet (Exactly)
29) M Pentecost - I can't quit him. Not yet. (Agreed - but his rope is getting short and frayed - like my genes - not my jeans - they're OK)
30) J Maese - don't think we should forget him (Let's see what the Doc's have been able to do)
31) J McLelland - all about the velo baby (Amen, sister)
32) T Bergen - I fall in love with effective Lefties, often get disappointed (Prepare for an encore of disappointment)
33) H Danner - expect him to climb (Hope he'll climb - not expect)
34) Z Logue - see Bergen (Yep)
35) F Wall - not sold (Yep)
36) S Taylor - really not sold, this is based on industry voices I see written up (Ambivalent)
37) L Jiminez - just because Gil Kim loves him so (Yep)
38) J. Merryweather - benefit of the doubt (I'm really looking forward to seeing him and Thornton this spring)
39) R McGuire - Luke Maile 2.0, has value but not the kind that puts one in the top 20 (Ya but Top 30 to me)
40) J Waugespack - Only because they protected him, I had him in the 50s before that (Yep)
41) B Lundquist - the 40's re where my "watch out for this guy" candidates fall (Bit higher - but yep)
42) C. Stevenson - loves the numbers but college guy in Bluefield, show me that in Lansing or Dunedin (Ditto)
43) J. Davis - just a guy IMO, still think Pompey is markedly better (Yep)
44) M. Castillo - they assigned him to full season at 18, tells me they see something (Yep)
45) S Espinal - watchful waiting (I'm eating crackers, yawning)
46) Z Jackson - if he could only find the zone (Ship. Sailing.)
47) J Palacios - intriguing enough to watch, not impressive enough to sell me yet (A few ounces short of a pound)
48) K. Vicuna - ONLY because he keeps coming up in published articles, I'm a skeptic (Colour me skeptical too)
49) G Moreno - will know more a year from now (True - BUT I'm a near believer already!)
50) A Kirk - ditto (I love this guy. 3 feet high. 6 feet wide. Several thousand pounds. Hits like his day time job depends on it. I'm gonna LOVE watching his march to the Bigs!)

TamRa - Love your stuff as always. Good to see we agree on quite a lot! Great to read your ideas!
dan gordon - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 02:08 AM EST (#367994) #
Stevenson's 64 walks vs 24 strikeouts was ridiculous. His home numbers were way better than his road numbers though, almost 400 points of OPS better. I thought maybe it was a case of padding stats in a hitters' park, but most of the other Bluefield batters seem to have hit better on the road, so it's probably just a small sample size fluke. I assume Stevenson plays at Lansing next year, given his age, with a call up to Dunedin if he keeps getting on base like Ricky Henderson.
Glevin - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 06:46 AM EST (#367995) #
"38) J. Merryweather - benefit of the doubt (I'm really looking forward to seeing him and Thornton this spring)"

Merryweather won't be back until late in the year.

Love the different lists. So much to debate. What I like about the system now is that starting at the end of last year, we are getting to that wave after wave thing where you expect every year to have a couple of key players on the team from your system. The Jays have the fewest PAs from rookies in the last decade in baseball. They have been 21st in rookie pitcher WAR and 24th in rookie hitter WAR.
85bluejay - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 07:45 AM EST (#367997) #
Interesting to me that Gabriel Moreno missed the list partly because he "was 18 and playing in the GCL and Bluefield" while the 16 months older and less regarded defensively Hagen Danner playing in Bluefield made the list - And Cal Stevenson missed because of being a college bat tearing up short season (which I agree with) but Connie Griffin disappointing turn in short season was overlooked, I tend to think because of pedigree - That's what makes these list so much fun for debate, no two opinions are alike and most of us haven't seen these guys play.
85bluejay - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 07:51 AM EST (#367998) #
Merryweather had his surgery in March, I will be surprised if he doesn't come back before "late in the year."
Glevin - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 10:46 AM EST (#368001) #
Recovery to game action is usually afaik roughly 11-30 months with average around 20 months. He night not even pitch this year but if we do see him, I'd be surprised if it's in first half of season. Jays have no reason to rush things.
hypobole - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 12:02 PM EST (#368003) #
https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/ten-interesting-facts-about-tommy-john-surgery/

18.2 months average from this.
Spifficus - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 12:51 PM EST (#368006) #
One thing those timetables don't (and can't) account for is an off-season. If you assume a no-setback return-time of say 12 months (just for the sake of argument) the recovery time for TJS in October will appear longer than April, since there are no games to pitch in for about 6 months.
whiterasta80 - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 01:47 PM EST (#368008) #
My list with comments

1 Vlad Jr
When he retires with 761 HRs the current management team will be lit up for keeping him down this year (and the inevitable 3-4 weeks next year)

2 Danny Jansen
He is already the best catcher to ever be drafted and developed by the Jays. Sad but true

3 Bo Bichette
Very good prospect but this years dip does raise concerns about ability to perform at the highest levels. Still a MLBer even if the dip is real.

4 Sean Reid-Foley
I think he figures it out

5 Nate Pearson
That arm thoughÖ

6 Rowdy Tellez
His understanding of the strike zone and contact ability (SSS in MLB aside) will be his calling card for 15 years

7 Billy McKinney
He's an MLB player. How good? I don't know yet

8 Cavan Biggio
Normally I hate high K% but his BB% is equally crazy and the power is there

9 Jordan Groshans
Really really like the player and skill set. I also really hate ranking recent draft picks too high. This seems like the appropriate balance. I think he's top 3 next year.

10 TJ Zeuch
Exactly the type of pitcher I always overrate

11 Eric Pardinho
Not as sold as some

12 Thomas Pannone
Ranking purely on proximity to the majors. I don't think he ever really helps a team unless its as a swingman

13 Adam Kloffenstein
See Groshans comment

14 Orelvis Martinez
See Groshans/Kloffenstein but replace draft pick with signing.

15 Maximo Castillo
I think he deserved better than an honourable mention on the list. This is probably an overreaction to that

16 Reese McGuire
Career backup catcher. Might catch lightening in a bottle from time to time. Basically one of the lesser Molinas.

17 Hector Perez

18 Miguel Hiraldo

19 Patrick Murphy

20 Kevin Smith
I hate high K% when it isn't accompanied by a BB% spike

21 Chavez Young
I hate high K% when it isn't accompanied by power.

22 Santiago Espinal

23 Justin Maese

24 Hagen Danner

25 Anthony Alford
I really hate high K% when it isn't accompanied by a high BB% or power.

26 Richard Urena

27 Logan Warmoth

28 Jordan Romano
Numbers suggest to me that his arm is blown out

29 Jon Harris
Probably overrating him. Its a pattern (see Castillo and Zeuch)

30 Ryan Noda

The rest could be in any order really.

31 Max Pentecost

32 Kevin Vicuna

33 Griffin Conine

34 Samad Taylor

35 Riley Adams

36 Travis Bergen

37 Rodrigo Orozco

38 Forrest Wall

39 Jonathan Davis

40 Dwight Smith Jr.

41 Yennsy Diaz
John Northey - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 04:28 PM EST (#368012) #
Interesting to think about is Danny Jansen already the best catcher developed by the Jays? BR lists the top 50 Jays by WAR. Checking there I see...

Which catchers are on the Jays WAR leaders?
#15: Ernie Whitt - expansion draft
#27: Gregg Zaun - signed as a free agent after the Expos said goodbye to him
#38: Russell Martin - free agent

Guys I know the Jays developed who did something...
Greg Myers: 2.8 WAR as a Jay, 7.3 career, 3rd round draft pick
Pat Borders: 4.4 WAR as a Jay, 3.6 overall (sucked elsehwere) 6th round pick, WS MVP 1992
whiterasta80 - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 05:20 PM EST (#368014) #
Borders, JPA, and Myers are the only competitors.

Myers developed after leaving here IMO.

JPA was a net negative even if WAR says otherwise.


Borders? 2 weeks one October aside was basically a replacement level player most of his career. Hes the gold standard for drafted and developed catchers but I'm comfortable predicting that Jansen exceeds him.
bpoz - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 06:19 PM EST (#368016) #
Who was Myers traded for? He was a good Lefty bat.
I believe Borders blocked pitches in the dirt very well. So his defense was good. I believe a #1 and backup was the way to go in those days.
I cannot remember who all the backup catchers were.

The expansion draft produced many good catchers. R Cerone and A Ashby come to mind.
GabrielSyme - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 07:43 PM EST (#368020) #
You're missing Yan Gomes, drafted and developed by the Jays and traded for a song because the Jays thought JP Arencibia was blocking him. 11.7 WAR at BR, 14.6 WARP at BP, which incorporates framing. Terrible oversight.
jerjapan - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 08:43 PM EST (#368021) #
Nah.  Nobody thought much of Gomes, a career backup in the minors.  It was a bad trade, but it seems like every year or two I have to point this out - I was the only poster bummed to see Gomes dealt, because I've got something of a fetish for versatility, which at the time wasn't considered as valuable.  Gomes was a throw-in type because his track record indicated throw-in. 
bpoz - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 09:28 PM EST (#368022) #
I too liked Yan Gomes.
John Northey - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 10:52 PM EST (#368023) #
Just did a search to find the old article for when he was traded to see reactions...
https://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20121102152303850

dan gorden: Not really a fan of this trade. Always thought Gomes was a pretty good prospect who never really got full time AB's.

AWeb: Someone like Aviles or Gomes can have a flukey season and be hugely valuable

Seamus: his is a nice trade. Rogers was very good once he got out of Colorado. I'll take that over Aviles/Gomes.

Keith Law: Slight preference for Rogers over Aviles/Gomes. Good cheap pen piece.

Really not much said - that was all I could find. Lands under the 'yawn' category of trades it seems. No one here seemed to care much one way or the other. Was surprised to see I didn't say anything to be honest. I'd say AWeb called it best - Gomes had 2 great years (3.9 and 4.0 WAR's in 2013/14, last year was his only other one over 1.5 WAR (2.6). Thanks to those 2 years he will make over $23 million in his career for certain, possibly more. Otherwise he'd have been lucky to get much more than the minimum each season.
TamRa - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 11:20 PM EST (#368024) #
the comparative catcher discussion is intriguing. My list are always heavily influenced by what I read of professional scouting opinion. There's simply a lot more commentary from his draft year on Danner than either Moreno or Kirk have been able  accumulate yet. I do have a weakness for scouting stats and if Danner hadn't shown progress this year offensively I might have deferred to the raw numbers, but I expect that by springwe'll have a lot more in the ecosystem than we did last spring on several of these guys. Sickels, for example, might well take note of them.
Richard S.S. - Friday, November 23 2018 @ 11:40 PM EST (#368025) #
If Vladimir Guerrero Jr. doesn't win Rookie Of The Year Award in 2019, should we disappointed? I think we should because he's a generational talent who could and should be one of the very best Jays' Players ever.
ayjackson - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 01:38 AM EST (#368026) #
I think Bichette's "dip" last year may be a bit overstated by some. He OPS'd .888 after the all-star game, so at worst it was a bit of an adjustment. A 20 year-old SS in AA taking a bit of time to adjust is acceptable. But i actually think, that iirc he had a dreadful 2 or 3 weeks in July and otherwise handled AA really well. I even wondered if he might have been nicked up a bit.
dan gordon - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 02:31 AM EST (#368027) #
Yes, as my comment above stated, I thought the Jays had made a mistake trading Gomes. They never gave him a chance at a full time job in the minors, although if you took his stats prorated over a full season, he always was a good hitter. I was surprised and disappointed at the time that the team couldn't see that. Some players just got pigeon-holed by teams as reserves/non-prospects, and not given a full chance, and it's great if you can spot somebody like that and take advantage of the oversight. I think teams are more stats conscious now and that type of oversight is rare.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 02:43 AM EST (#368028) #
RHP Justin Maese was a rising star, with a bullet his first 1.5 seasons. He possibly played hurt/was uncomfortable through the balance of 2016. Now at age 22, he misses all of 2018 - mandatory shoulder surgery. Was it anyone's fault or just stinking bad luck?
Thomas - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 04:57 AM EST (#368029) #
Richard, I think it's harsh to be disappointed if Vlad doesn't win rookie of the year. Eloy Jimenez of the White Sox is a top 5 prospect in baseball who is the same situation as Vlad (i.e. will be promoted less than a month into the season). There may be Japanese players who are posted and sign with North American teams. Plus, often times rookies that aren't the leading Rookie of the Year contenders have strong rookie seasons (such as Eric Hinske) and win the award, regardless of whether they have a productive career or not.

If Vlad hits .200 and only hits 13 homers in nearly a full season, that will be disappointing. However, if he isn't otherwordly out of the gate, I'm going to reserve judgement until later.
whiterasta80 - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 06:19 AM EST (#368030) #
Does Pittsburgh get credit for drafting and developing Jose Bautista?

I'll acknowledge that just because gomes was drafted by the Jay's and reached the majors it was an oversight. But Yan Gomes is a cleveland success story IMO.

He had a wRV+ of 67 as a jay and then doubled that in cleveland.
whiterasta80 - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 06:24 AM EST (#368031) #
I completely agree that we dont need to worry about Bo. That looks like an adjustment period to me. It's just that up until now he didnt look like he needed adjustment periods and I was happy to label him 1b next to vlad. That bump (probably a better word) was enough to separate them for me.

Also, my notes were intentionally provocative. Fully expect and welcome debate.
whiterasta80 - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 06:51 AM EST (#368032) #
Myers was traded with Rob Ducey to the Angels for a mark eichhorn redux in 92.

Eichhorn was passable in 92, very good in 93.

At the time of the deal myers had accumulated 1 war over 4 partial seasons- largely on the back of his defense (which wasn't really valued back then plus borders was better and had an incredible 1990 on his resume). He outplayed borders in 91 but definitely not in 90 or 92. We also had ed sprague, randy knorr, and some guy named carlos delgado as catching prospects at the position then. Greg o'halloran and sandy Martinez may also have been in the equation. The fact that I can even remember those names without a google search is an indictment (I bet twins, giants, and cardinals fans cant name failed catching prospects).

Anyway myers wasn't very good until the twins in 96. or really ever...
whiterasta80 - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 06:57 AM EST (#368033) #
Shout out to Pat Borders for sporting the greatest "is it or isn't it a moustache?" Ever.

Posting blitz, done.
Chuck - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 07:08 AM EST (#368034) #
I think it's harsh to be disappointed if Vlad doesn't win rookie of the year.

Agreed. Griffey had a "modest" 3-WAR rookie season (albeit at age 19!) before going nuts on the league.

AWeb - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 07:10 AM EST (#368035) #
I had posted in another thread about the debuting with the JAys, and yeah, as far as I could tell Borders, Myers, Arencibia, then Jansen and McGuire from last year were the (fangraphs) WAR leaders. So Jansen is basically one good year from the top of that list. I'll defend Myers in 2003 - he was a great hitter for a a lot of that year, absolutely crushed the ball the entire first half, liners everywhere. That was in the string of very good years by old catchers the Jays got (Zaun, Myers, Fletcher, Molina). Not every year of course, but the Jays managed to get some good production out of the position, even if it was always an old external guy. WEirdly, it's not like Catcher has been a problem position relatively speaking, despite a lack of any good player development there.
Glevin - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 09:12 AM EST (#368036) #
I never blamed AA for trading Gomes. He wasn't a great prospect and he figured it out. You can't keep every mediocre prospect hoping they manage to turn things around.
hypobole - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 10:26 AM EST (#368038) #
The Gomes situation, as was mentioned, was similar to Bautista.

With Jose, it was mostly Murphy and Cito, with a dash of Vernon Wells, who helped him learn to harness his power.

In Gomes case, it was very much Kevin Cash who helped mould him into a plus defensive catcher.
bpoz - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 10:48 AM EST (#368039) #
The current FO is talking more about player development than previous FOs.

The coaching staff of each farm team is responsible for teaching their players. Add in roving instructors. Higher up are Gil Kim and Ben Cherrington. I believe after each game the manager submits a report to higher ups (who ever they are). So call it progress reports.

The media are not told anything. But the players and coaches give fairly regular interviews. No important information is given/leaked out. The opposition does not need to know that a certain pitcher is going to use his weak pitch more eg CH to improve it. Bad results will happen until he masters his new pitch.

If a player does not agree to this and chooses to mainly use his best pitch eg 100 mph FB then the opposition picks up on this and know what is coming. Maybe they can't hit it. So great results. But the Major League hitters may crush that 100 mph FB.
scottt - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 12:30 PM EST (#368041) #
The problem with that trade was buying high on Esmil Rogers.
When Rogers found some success in the pen in Cleveland, it didn't mean he could start in the AL East.

SK in NJ - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 12:35 PM EST (#368042) #
If Iím remembering correctly, Kevin Cash worked for the Jays in 2012, left for the Indians organization after the 2012 season, and recommended to the GM there to acquire Gomes shortly after joining them. While the Jays viewed him as a utility player, possibly due to the other catchers in the org, Cash saw him completely differently.

The trade wasnít the issue, it was not realizing Gomes was a good catcher that was the bigger problem.
bpoz - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 02:27 PM EST (#368043) #
That is how it happened SK. I remember.
AWeb - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 06:54 PM EST (#368045) #
Gomes is a good example of what has gone wrong in the past developing catchers, hopefully something the org has figured out now. Given the current terrible state of catcher hitting in mlb, if Jansen turns out to be able to replicate his 2018 numbers he's a top 10 catcher already. Given his milb hitting and profile...low k, good bb, some power...there's no reason to think he was way over his head in 2018.
bpoz - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 07:10 PM EST (#368046) #
This FO used the DH spot to give more ABs to catchers. This develops their hitting. All AAA, AA & A+ catchers got 350+ ABs. Ryan Gold got 208 ABs in Lansing once promoted from Extended ST on June 7th.
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 08:16 PM EST (#368048) #
I think there were definitely some warning signs for Danny Jansen in his debut. He had a 0.341 wOBA versus against a 0.310 xWOBA. He really didn't hit the ball as hard as I was expecting. His average exit velocity was 380 out of 454 batters with 60+ BIP, which is more like 30/40 game power. Its a small sample size and he's young so clearly he can show more power than this hopefully.
John Northey - Saturday, November 24 2018 @ 10:33 PM EST (#368049) #
The last Jays prospect anywhere near as hyped as Vlad was probably Travis Snider who flopped in the end. Hyped to the same degree would be Carlos Delgado who got a September call-up in 1993 (back then teams didn't worry too much about service time) then was put in LF for 1994 and tore the cover off at first before slowing to a dead stop and got demoted for the rest of the year, then was down most of 1995 (up for May hitting for a 585 OPS, September a 507 OPS) as well before getting to play all season in 1996 (112 OPS+), and beyond but it took until 1998 (his age 26 season) for him to show the MVP form that nearly got him to the HOF (950 OPS for his age 26 to 36 seasons at which point he was done).

I remember Vernon Wells (very good career) getting lots of hype, as did Sil Campusano (flop). That's about it for the super-hype that can compare remotely to Vlad's for the Jays.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, November 25 2018 @ 12:47 AM EST (#368051) #
Another week to go before the Tender/Non-Tender Deadline. Ross Atkins will most likely be working the Trade Market trying to move Solarte, rather than just non-tendering him. After his ugly second half of the season, I can't see any reason to keep him beyond August 31st. Then again, I can't see why he was kept this long. Are the Jays planning on keeping him next year?
GabrielSyme - Sunday, November 25 2018 @ 12:50 AM EST (#368052) #
Thanks SK, for reminding us of the details of the Gomes trade. Obviously, the trade was reasonable if the Jays' assessment of Gomes was reasonable - but it really wasn't. How you think a catcher isn't capable of being defensively strong enough to be a backup, and then, the next year, he is one of the best defensive catchers in the league blows my mind. You have to know your own assets.
Jdog - Sunday, November 25 2018 @ 01:03 AM EST (#368053) #
Speaking of Catchers and hype. Wasn't Josh Phelps a catcher at one point in the minors, and did he not come up to some hype? I remember thinking he was going to be a regular allstar after his stellar 2002.
dan gordon - Sunday, November 25 2018 @ 03:03 AM EST (#368055) #
Gomes always hit well in the Jays system, but they refused to give him regular AB's. In 2009, his OPS was .809, in 2010 it was .780, in 2011 it was .770, and it 2012 it was .938. Plus, in the AFL in 2011, it was .810. The guy could flat out hit, right from the start of his pro career. It's simply not true that he wasn't a good prospect, the Jays just didn't see that he WAS a good prospect. They didn't think he was a regular catcher, and kept trying him at 3B/1B as well as C, and only playing him part time. The very short stint he had n Toronto was only 98 AB's, which is basically meaningless.
bpoz - Sunday, November 25 2018 @ 10:42 AM EST (#368056) #
I saw it exactly the same way Dan Gordon. So I ask what is the correct/best way to develop a player?

You need in game playing time. H Danner, A Kirk and G Moreno are all catchers that hit well at Bluefield. I hope they all are in the Opening Day roster of Lansing. If so they all will need ABs.
Jonny German - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:00 AM EST (#368059) #
A little late to the party, but here's my current top-30. I didn't "cheat" by taking other people's list into consideration (which means you can all have a good laugh at how high I put Warmoth), other than to add Thornton after seeing him on TamRa's list. I had simply forgotten to have a look at him and decide where he should be on my list. The closer I look at him the more I scratch my head that Aledmys Diaz wasn't worth more to this management.

1 . Vlad Guerrero Jr
2 . Bo Bichette
3 . Danny Jansen
4 . Nate Pearson
5 . Anthony Alford
6 . Sean Reid-Foley
7 . Eric Pardinho
8 . Jordan Groshans
9 . Kevin Smith
10 . Cavan Biggio
11 . Orelvis Martinez
12 . Adam Kloffenstein
13 . T.J. Zeuch
14 . Logan Warmoth
15 . Hector Perez
16 . Miguel Hiraldo
17 . David Paulino
18 . Billy McKinney
19 . Chavez Young
20 . Samad Taylor
21 . Patrick Murphy
22 . Yennsy Diaz
23 . Reese McGuire
24 . Rowdy Tellez
25 . Griffin Conine
26 . Forrest Wall
27 . Otto Lopez
28 . Riley Adams
29 . Trent Thornton
30 . Thomas Pannone
ayjackson - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 08:20 AM EST (#368062) #
Interesting to think how may prospects might actually graduate next off the list next year...maybe as high as 9 or 10? Looking at Dan's list...

Vlad Guerrero Jr
Danny Jansen
Anthony Alford
Sean Reid-Foley
David Paulino
Billy McKinney
Reese McGuire
Rowdy Tellez
Thomas Pannone
ayjackson - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 08:21 AM EST (#368063) #
Sorry, *Jonny's list.
Mike Green - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 08:54 AM EST (#368064) #
I didn't consider Thornton because he was added after the season and wasn't on the BB consideration set.   I'd probably have him in the low 20s.
Chuck - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 09:08 AM EST (#368065) #
Wasn't Josh Phelps a catcher at one point in the minors, and did he not come up to some hype?

Look into this site's archives. Hype is an understatement.

Jonny German - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 09:29 AM EST (#368066) #
Good point Mike. Without Thornton I had Pannone at 29 and Brock Lundquist at 30.
bpoz - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 11:00 AM EST (#368067) #
You are correct ayjackson about so many prospects graduating.

I was not Sure about D Paulino, but he has 42.2 Ml IPs. So close to 50 and off. He burned 1 option in 2016. 2017 and 2018 most likely were rehab games 3 Starts in 2017 and 6 in 2018. The those options may not have been burned.
If he has 2 options left then the FO may try him as a SP in the minors since they place such a high value on SPs.
I really don't know how good a SP he will be. He is probably behind Zeuch. P Murphy, Y Diaz and H Perez are not that far behind him.

Zeuch has a great opportunity to come up in Aug. He could do 50 IP and also graduate.
Shoeless Joe - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 11:52 AM EST (#368068) #
David Paulino is out of options next season and has to stay with the big league club. I would assume they might try him out as a starter in spring and then have him as the long man in the bullpen.
Mike Green - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 12:06 PM EST (#368069) #
Chuck, the archives only go back to BB's relaunch in 2005.  The hype was before that.  But your memory isn't fooling you- Phelps' hype was somewhere between Bichette's and VGJ's in intensity.
Nigel - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 12:07 PM EST (#368070) #
Lundquist is an interesting prospect. In retrospect, I think he should have been on my top 30 list. Although he doesnít look like he should be able to, I think he can put up good defensive value in addition to a decent mix of offensive skills.
ayjackson - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 12:09 PM EST (#368071) #
With 271 upper minors IP, Trent Thornton would be a graduation candidate this year as well. Others with possibilities in addition to my list below would be Bichette, Biggio, Zeuch and Perez. Obviously, 2019 has to go very well for those four to see significant time with the club in August/September.
greenfrog - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 12:17 PM EST (#368072) #
Lawrie has to in the conversation as to heavily-hyped players who ultimately fell short of expectations. The swooning effect on fans created by Lawrieís 2011 debut (157 wRC+) was similar to that of Phelpsí 2002 season (141 wRC+).
Dewey - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 12:50 PM EST (#368073) #
Donít forget Eddie Zosky, for a while a hype-champ.  Then he vanished, without trace.
whiterasta80 - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 01:04 PM EST (#368074) #
I remember being more excited for Eddie Zosky than for Carlos Delgado. That had as much to do with my opinion of Manny Lee, Alfredo Griffin, and Dick Schofield than actual excitement for the player (whose minor league stats were never really that good).
Mike Green - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 02:27 PM EST (#368075) #
Noda vs. Lundquist is an interesting discussion.  I'd say that Noda is the better prospect, but I see the other side.  Lundquist is 2 months older than Noda, and they played together most of the year in Lansing (Noda was the better hitter there, although he did have a higher K rate).  Lundquist went to Dunedin and put a nice slash line, with the help of a .390 BABIP. 
Gerry - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 02:44 PM EST (#368076) #
Donaldson might be heading to the Braves on a one year deal.
Gerry - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 02:46 PM EST (#368077) #
One year $23M for Donaldson. That's more than I thought he would get but there are no bad one year deals. Plus the Braves just made $100M so they can afford it.
ayjackson - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:05 PM EST (#368078) #
If I had gone out as far as 30 prospects for my list, I think I would have included Joshua Palacios. He fits the bill of a 5-tool player (think Black and Decker, not De Walt), with the power still to emerge. I think it will be an interesting year for him, especially with that short porch in New Hampshire.

(please...the 5-tool was more in jest....he looks "toolsy" though)
Shoeless Joe - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:12 PM EST (#368079) #
I think that the number is about right for Donaldson, I hope he has a healthy and productive season in Atlanta. There will definitely be storylines in the coming days around playing for his old boss.
uglyone - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:25 PM EST (#368080) #
lol we ditched the only GM to build a playoff team here in 2 decades, the very year he made the playoffs.
PeterG - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:30 PM EST (#368081) #
#BlueJays have fired bullpen coach Dane Johnson and hired Matt Buschmann, 34, as his replacement, per @ShiDavidi.
Mike Green - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:32 PM EST (#368082) #
I guess that they have been planning to move Camargo to right-field.  I wouldn't do it.  He's a perfectly good defensive third baseman, and at this point, you might get a lot worse than that from Donaldson. 
Glevin - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:46 PM EST (#368083) #
Donaldson makes sense for a braves. Heís from the area and the deal is not much of a risk for one year.. They can trade Camargo as well in part of a package. The Braves system is amazing and they have a ton of depth to trade from and it would surprise me if they didnít pursue a top starter this offseason as well. Syndagaard would make so much sense if they werenít in the same division but there are other pitchers available.
Nigel - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:47 PM EST (#368084) #
Lundquist versus Noda is an interesting comparison. I haven't seen Noda play but I understand from reports there are questions about his ability to play the OF. Lundquist is stocky and doesn't look like he's a good athlete but I would say that he played an above average RF in Vancouver. He's faster than he looks and he has a strong and accurate arm. I think the issue for Lundquist is whether he has enough power to offset some swing and miss in his game. I think Noda and Lundquist are pretty equivalent prospects. I have a bias to the player that can play some defence but Noda does offer an interesting offensive upside.
Gerry - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 03:59 PM EST (#368085) #
Very sad to report that the Jays have fired bullpen coach Dane Johnson. Johnson was the former minor league pitching coordinator and gave us several interviews here on Da Box. Johnson had been with the Jays for 19 years.

He has been replaced by Matt Buschmann, who seems to have links to Montoyo. That's part of the life of a major league coach, you have almost no job security.
JohnL - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 04:00 PM EST (#368086) #

lol we ditched the only GM to build a playoff team here in 2 decades, the very year he made the playoffs.

Technically, he ditched the Jays. Although the Jays did fire the manager - after 1 year - who led the team to the most wins they'd get in those 2 decades.

PeterG - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 04:01 PM EST (#368087) #
#BlueJays are hiring Mark Budzinski, formerly of the #Indians, as their first base coach, sources tell The Athletic.
PeterG - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 04:05 PM EST (#368088) #
#BlueJays also hiring former big-leaguer Shelley Duncan, most recently a manager in #DBacks organization, as Major League Field Coordinator, sources tell The Athletic.
bpoz - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 04:14 PM EST (#368089) #
AA has 28 pitchers on his 40 man roster. McCann and Donaldson make 42.

McCann's deal is 1 yr $2 mil. Donaldson for only 1 year is a good gamble.

The NL East is weak at the moment. Washington is old and everyone else is rebuilding. Everyone has to destroy Miami. If they cannot, they will be out of the playoffs IMO.

Atlanta is already the favorite in the NL East but by only a small margin IMO. They need to think like Houston when they got G Cole last off season. Just add more in their division than anyone else this off season.
Chuck - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 04:57 PM EST (#368090) #
That's more than I thought he would get but there are no bad one year deals.

Were a QO-related draft pick attached, it would have been a very different story. All the seeming acrimony notwithstanding, the Jays did Donaldson a favour (and likely themselves, for reasons of optics at least) by taking the QO off the table.

Chuck - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 05:02 PM EST (#368091) #
Chuck, the archives only go back to BB's relaunch in 2005. The hype was before that.

Right, forgot about the relaunch. As I recall, Coach, the site's originator, was extremely enthralled by Phelps. And Burley, too, I think. And their enthusiasm was not fueled by wee drams (as is that of our noted unabashed optimist, MyLegacy).

scottt - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 06:34 PM EST (#368093) #
That's classic AA. Donaldson can still be offered a QO, so there's extra value and little risk.
Also it's not the first time he inks a veteran catcher who is also a local favorite.

PeterG - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 06:37 PM EST (#368094) #
Toronto has claimed Oliver Drake and DFAd Mark Leiter Jr.
scottt - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 06:40 PM EST (#368095) #
Miami will compete with Baltimore for the first pick.
The Mets are a mess.
The Nationals will try to rebound and Philly is going to spend a tons.

Isn't Cleveland the only team assured of winning it's division?
Houston is pretty close behind.

JohnL - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 07:00 PM EST (#368098) #

Chuck, the archives only go back to BB's relaunch in 2005. The hype was before that.

Those pre-2005 pages can't hide from Google. "Phelps' power is off the charts": January, 2003 https://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20030123111937999. There may be more.

Mike Green - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 07:37 PM EST (#368100) #
Thanks, JohnL.  Glad I didn't embarrass myself in that thread.  I thought highly of Phelps but at a lower level than some.  After Phelps, Ryan Howard came along with much the same profile and was a pretty good player for 4 years. 
bpoz - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 08:17 PM EST (#368101) #
I got fooled by everyone. All optimism.

Richard S.S. - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 09:08 PM EST (#368102) #
It's much better to be optimistic, brighter outlook on life.
bpoz - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 09:30 PM EST (#368103) #
Exactly Richard. I am ok looking like a fool. Big fool too.

I have a beer. Cheers!!!!

I dream of another WS or 3.
Richard S.S. - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 09:59 PM EST (#368106) #
With this year's contract added, Josh Donaldson has earned about $80.0 Million thus far in his career, $23.0 Million as a non-Blue Jay. If he can stay relatively healthy, he can have good success with $18.5 - $25.0 Million one year deals.
Gerry - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 10:46 PM EST (#368109) #
Harold Ramirez is now a former Blue Jay, he has signed with Miami.
85bluejay - Monday, November 26 2018 @ 11:58 PM EST (#368110) #
Good landing spot for Ramirez - the Marlins desperately need outfielders and Ramirez should get an opportunity to show he belongs - If the Jays decide to move on from Dalton Pompey (I'm strongly in favour of keeping him), the Marlins is where I hope he goes for opportunity & maybe the chance someday to play with his brother.
Gerry - Tuesday, November 27 2018 @ 12:59 PM EST (#368124) #
I will develop a top 30 list based on posters top 30's. So far, the four top 30 threads have seen top 30's posted from bpoz; Mike Green; Nigel (but not ordered); tamra; whiterasta 80; and Jonny German.

Ay Jackson posted a top 20, I can't use that unless its a top 30.

If you have a list you want considered you can either post it here or email it to roster at battersbox dot ca. You have a few days if you need it.
bpoz - Tuesday, November 27 2018 @ 01:26 PM EST (#368125) #
Thanks Gerry. I was going to say that you should not have to work extra because you do so much already. But I suppose spreadsheet skills would give a good list with not much work. At least I think so.
Gerry - Tuesday, November 27 2018 @ 01:26 PM EST (#368126) #
Actually bpoz I just noticed you never posted your top 10.
bpoz - Tuesday, November 27 2018 @ 02:02 PM EST (#368129) #
Top 10.

1) Vlad
2) Bo
3) D Jansen
4) SRF
5) N Pearson
6) E Pardinho
7) J Groshans
8) K Smith
9) A Alford
10)TJ Zeuch.
ayjackson - Tuesday, November 27 2018 @ 03:14 PM EST (#368132) #
I emailed my complete top 30 to the roster account. Not from my registered address though so it is awaiting moderator review, or some such thing.
Jonny German - Wednesday, November 28 2018 @ 09:29 AM EST (#368147) #
Thanks Gerry, that'll be interesting to see.
dan gordon - Wednesday, November 28 2018 @ 11:36 PM EST (#368163) #
FWIW, here is my top 30, after reviewing the BB Top 30, considering the ones that were significantly different from my list, and making a few adjustments where I felt I was a bit off. Took out a couple of guys who no longer officially qualify. The 10 extras are just outside the 30, but at that point, you're kind of splitting hairs in terms of where a prospect ranks.

1. V.Guerrero Jr
2. Bichette
3. Pearson
4. Jansen
5. K.Smith
6. Groshans
7. Reid-Foley
8. Pardinho
9. Alford
10. O.Martinez
11. Kloffenstein
12. Biggio
13. Zeuch
14. M. Hiraldo
15. H.Perez
16. C. Young
17. P.Murphy
18. Tellez
19. Pannone
20. Y.Diaz
21. S.Taylor
22. McGuire
23. Paulino
24. McKinney
25. Adams
26. Danner
27. Noda
28. O.Lopez
29. Z.Jackson
30. Bergen

And 10 more I like, in no particular order:

Stevenson
Gudino
Palacios
Moreno
Kirk
Abbadessa
Copping
Warmoth
McClelland
Romano


Glevin - Thursday, November 29 2018 @ 05:38 AM EST (#368168) #
We all have general personal preferences for prospects. For me, I am biased against pitchers in general and especially pitchers lower in the minors. You just have to look at 2017 top prospects to see why. Top-4 pitching prospects were Kopech, Buehler, Honeywell, and Reyes. 3 of them have already had Tommy John since. And those were close to the major league prospects. Look at someone like Urias who was an elite prospect. He might bounce back and be a great pitcher but the Dodgers lost 2 years of cheap control over him already. For hitters, I prefer more risk lower in the minors.
Mike Green - Thursday, November 29 2018 @ 09:35 AM EST (#368170) #
I really don't know what to make of Anthony Alford. He had ACL surgery in high school and re-injured it in April, 2016 and then had a concussion (aka MTBI) in June, 2016.  He started off 2017 hot in New Hampshire, got the call to TO and promptly injured fractured his wrist.  In 2018, it was a significant hamstring strain at the start of the season that derailed him.   He hit .282/.324/.388 in August with 3 walks and 24 strikeouts in 116 PAs.  He had turned 24 in July. 

There are a lot of similarities with Pompey.  Alford is an exquisitely talented player whose career has been derailed by injuries (as it happens, Pompey has had the same areas of injury- knee, wrist and head).  Alford is a year and a half younger, so he is (perhaps) a better bet to stay healthy and contribute at the major league level. 
dan gordon - Thursday, November 29 2018 @ 03:22 PM EST (#368179) #
That's a good comp, Mike. I would love to see what both guys could do with a fully healthy season. I still think both can be significant mlb regulars, but if they just can't stay healthy, it's not going to happen. In looking at Alford's age, you also need to consider how little baseball time he has had compared to other prospects - he may have more improvement still to come than most 24 year old's because of that.
Glevin - Tuesday, December 04 2018 @ 03:34 AM EST (#368310) #
Alford can play CF and well. Pompey is a corner OFer. That's a huge difference in what offensive marks they have to hit to be useful. Pompey has not been interesting since 2015. Alford was a top-50 prospect in 2017. Very different places. Pompey you can see as a 4th OFer if he can stay healthy and put things together. If Alford does the same, he's a starting player and maybe an All-Star. Apparently, Alford looked awful this year so I am not so optimistic but I'd gamble on him bouncing back way ahead of pretending Pompey is the same prospect he was 5 years ago.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 04 2018 @ 09:00 AM EST (#368311) #
We'll see, Glevin.  Maybe both will make it as regular players under Montoyo.  Stranger things have happened. 
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