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Now that the wheeling and dealing is done, here's an overdue thread for the post-mortem. Because you're still talking, and the original now stands at more than 300 comments, which is pretty Unwieldy.



TRADE DEADLINE II | 55 comments | Create New Account
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Mike Green - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 07:25 AM EDT (#418936) #
Zach Pop is more interesting than I thought. He's got a very hard and effective sinker, a decent slider and good control. He has started throwing a changeup this year. It's possible they see starter stuff there.

Don't get fooled by his pedestrian ERA- he has pitched better than that.
scottt - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 07:44 AM EDT (#418937) #
I don't know if 3.60 is pedestrian, but I think the Aaron Sanchez comparison is valid.
whiterasta80 - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 07:47 AM EDT (#418938) #
24 hours later and I don't hate the deadline. We can't expect to empty the prospect pool every winter and trade deadline and we have made some very good trades recently. We are also a wild card team with essentially zero hope of winning the division. Better to pick a year where the players aren't all big market clubs (plus the twins). So I'm generally ok with yesterday.

But I'm troubled by a few things here:

First, I'm rather worried that Merrifield means that spinger is in worse shape than they are letting on. He's a good option if that is the case but we need Spring to have a shot.

Second, and I mentioned this in the other thread. Marlins fans had a "good riddance" reaction to the arms we got back. They are almost universally saying that the numbers don't match the eye test.

Finally, as some have said, whits vaccination status is an issue. I'm pretty confident that he gave some indication that he would get vaxxed for us to trade for him. But how long will that take? The next month getting springer right is probably the most value that he will have to us. Will he be available throughout? At least the next few games away.
Mike Green - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 07:50 AM EDT (#418939) #
3.60 in relief in Miami is pedestrian. Context.
Chuck - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:01 AM EDT (#418940) #
Merrifield means that spinger is in worse shape than they are letting on

While I do believe that Springer is more hurt than we think and could well land on the IL, I have a hard time believing that Merrifield is seen as a Plan B for center field. He's 33, hasn't hit for two years, and has spent most of his career at 2B and RF. If this truly is the organization's Springer contingency plan... yikes. I've been as down on Tapia as anyone, but I don't see how Merrifield is an obvious upgrade.

As to Merrifield's vax status, lots of weasel words from Atkins yesterday. I wonder if that was to hide any discussions he might have had, pre-trade, with Merrifield, discussions that might be considered verboten and akin to tampering.

Jevant - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:29 AM EDT (#418944) #
Have to think Merrifield was a last minute fallback (it even sounded that way from Atkins) when something else didn't go through (probably Happ...which still baffles me that the Cubs didn't trade him or Contreras).

I'm generally okay with this deadline. Prices seemed high. I'm not sure parting with a better prospect to go from White to Thor would have been worth it (especially since White has probably been just as good this year anyways). And I have to imagine that the Happ price is what meant the Cubs ended up stuck with him (they have to have overplayed their hand there).

Getting 2 relievers for Groshans seems by all accounts to be the industry's favourite move for them, which is the one that I think people were most worried about around here, which is interesting.

Bottom line is, this team is going to go as far as its best players will take them. Their best players need to be better, and fortunately they've been getting a bit better over the last bit (Berrios and Chapman trending back towards career norms has been huge). I don't think trading Moreno or Orelvis for Happ/RP would have made anyone happier than what they did, so I think they were smart to support where they could and dance with the one that brung ya.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#418945) #
Fangraphs combined rest of season projections

* Merrifield (33): 229pa, 99wrc+, 0.9war
* Bass (34): 24ip, 3.64era, 0.3war
* White (27): 15ip, 4.21era, 0.1war
* Pop (25): 11ip, 3.87era, 0.0war

note that that projected performance by Merrifield would be a substantial step up from what he's done the last 2 seasons.

I dont see any of these guys as clear upgrades tbh but at least they give us more lottery tickets at the bottom of the roster that can get hot at any given time.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:45 AM EDT (#418946) #
One assumes that Mitch White becomes Plan B in the event that Kikuchi falls on his ass again, and as always with a pitcher coming to town from Dodger Stadium, I want to see his Home Road splits. I'm not filled with enthusiasm.

Split  W  L  ERA    G  GS   IP    H   R  ER  HR  BB  SO  WHIP    SO9    SO/W
Home   2  2  2.60  18   6  52.0  38  17  15   3  21  51  1.135   8.8    2.43
Away   1  3  4.53  20   8  53.2  52  36  27   9  16  47  1.267   7.9    2.94

I grant it's only 50 some innings, at home and on the road.


Ducey - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#418947) #
I'm not keen on losing Frasso and Brito but alas TINSTAAPP.

Otherwise content. Its clear the Jays have an eye on the future. They obtained some prospects and controlled players. Pop could turn out to be the closer in a year or two.

Did they do enough to overcome the Yankees? No. But none of the players traded would change that.

They did improve relative to the 4 teams who are trying to get into a wildcard spot. That means they improved their chances of making the playoffs. That's all that really matters.

They followed the Atlanta model of just get in and see what happens.
bpoz - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 08:54 AM EDT (#418948) #
How much $ is Merrifield due for his current contract?

Shapiro values $ a lot. Some quotes: "For a continued good budget we have to do well". "If our good players leave we will replace them". Shapiro did not say anything about Verlander but Verlander himself said the Jays were about equal to what the Astros offered. Verlander qualifies as a good replacement IMO. But the Ryu contract will not provide decent value. Springer's contracts so far also looks like it will not provide decent value.

Gausman's contract could also not provide decent value. $21mil/yr for Gausman should get you a #1/2 SP. So far so good. If Miami could trade expensive FAs to us in 2013 then maybe we can try that too. Also Boston traded Betts with Price to LAD as a money savings transaction. Betts is a superstar and Price is a reliever. Verdugo in Boston is healthy, cheap and doing fine.
Hodgie - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 09:04 AM EDT (#418949) #
I understand the Groshans trade, but the other two trades do not make any real sense to me. Are we sure that White is actually any better than Castillo? And the anti~vaxxer just screams last minute desperation.
Mike Green - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 09:07 AM EDT (#418950) #
Merrifield managed to post a 3 fWAR season last year, despite not hitting much.  How did he do it?  Slightly above-average defence and the 6th most baserunning runs in MLB (Bo Bichette was 7th).  It's funny- if you look at a longer period 2019-22, the baserunning runs leaders begin with Tommy Edman and Starling Marte, but perched at 8th between Trea Turner and Ozzie Albies is J.T. Realmuto. 

If you look at the duration of Merrifield's career from 2016-22, he's 10th in baserunning runs just a tiny bit behind Mike Trout.  That's awfully impressive for a player aged 27-33. 

His decline this year is due to a modest decrease in speed, power and line-drive rate.  He's 33 years old...However, I can a recovery as possible.  His contact rate is still good, and playing in Toronto might be good for him. 
Jevant - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#418951) #
I think that playing with a team that is not the Royals would be better for any player.

I often think we (not saying you, Mike, but the royal "we") forget these are real people. I've worked jobs where I'm going nowhere and struggling with the future of the company. It's hard to "get up" for going in every day when the org has no focus/direction/desire to excel. You still perform to keep the job and to prove it to yourself, but it's hard to find that extra gear.

I have to imagine the last few years in KC (especially for a guy like Merrifield who has historically been one of the best players for that team) have been pretty tough. I think there's a solid chance there is at least a partial bounceback, and playing with a more upbeat/positive/good team has to be a good thing.
Chuck - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#418952) #
How much $ is Merrifield due for his current contract?

Scroll 2/3 down this page, to the Salaries section.

bpoz - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#418953) #
Thanks Chuck. Good cheap contract.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#418954) #
Fangraphs with a rundown of the Miami trade.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/blue-jays-jazz-up-bullpen-with-pop-and-bass/

This caught my eye:
"The disappearance of Groshansí in-game power confirms some of the questions in his prospect profile, as heís never posted good exit velocities in the minors."
Does anyone here know where to find minor league EV's?
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#418955) #
I think the concern over Merrifield's vaccination status is overblown. I find it hard to believe Ross Atkin would trade for a player that will ultimately play only half the club's games. Also, there wouldn't have to be any tampering involved.

Atkins, in conversation with the KC management, probably said," Look, we're interested in Merrifield. Do you think he'll get vaccinated?" The Kansas City GM then conveyed this to Merrifield or his agent, and Merrifield agreed that he would get the shot. Now this is conjecture because I don't know how strong Merrifield's convictions are, and his family would have to be vaccinated, too, to join him. What I do know is that most athletes play to win and you would think he would want to get out of Kansas City and play on a winning team and participate ( hopefully) in the playoffs. I just can't see it being a Kyrie Irving situation.
85bluejay - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#418957) #
When Merrifield missed the series in Toronto because of his vaccination status, did he not cause a ruckus by saying he may have vaccinated if he was playing on a contending team - now he is.
Nigel - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#418960) #
Iím with Hodgie. I can understand the Groshans deal on many levels. I would have traded more prospect capital for a higher leverage reliever but I can understand the reluctance of others to do so. After that, I think they lost the plot. Neither of the other deals are terrible because the cost wasnít high, but getting Merrifield to play a corner OF role against LHs if Springer is hurt is filling as fringy a need as you can get. And Iím with Chuck, Iíd rather see Tapia in CF than Merrifield and I think Tapia in CF is a bad idea on any given day.
bpoz - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#418961) #
This trade deadline was a wild and exiting experience. Bauxites were constantly upgrading the trades as they were made.

What I found most interesting and scary to me, was that ML baseball had become a much bigger financial field than before. Maybe for many teams each winning season provides a lot of revenue. This probably means that if you lose for long enough "heads will roll". Well maybe not that bad.

So actually going far with an expensive and hopefully contending team is a survival goal. AA getting Iglesias makes that playoff pitching a "no coming back from a deficit" team.

LAA is in trouble. The Cubs should make less money with this rebuilding team.

The Jays have to make the playoffs at an acceptable rate in the AL East to get the big revenues. A good pen is crucial for this to happen.
92-93 - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#418962) #
Merrifield might have said he would consider getting vaccinated for a contender, but the family issue is a very real one and that contender being Toronto changes the equation completely. If his wife isn't vaccinated as well that means she too will need to get the shot to bring the kids to Canada. Hopefully the Jays checked in with his team before they acquired him, although you could probably make the case that with the price they paid (and the likely removal of a vaccine mandate by next spring?) that even having him for only road games in 2022 was a worthwhile move.
Ducey - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#418965) #
Merrifield's family is largely irrelevant. He has 2 months to play this season. It would be very unlikely his family would move to Canada in that time.

Who knows what restrictions, if any, will look like next summer. And in any event there are lots of players (NHL, NBA, MLB) who play in Canada but don't move their families.

Finally, if Whit gets vaxxed and does not spontaneously combust, maybe his family will too.
Polite Nate - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#418967) #
I have to imagine he'll get it done, if for no other reason than he's staring down 50% of his pay vanishing to the restricted list up until the rules change. But counting on that being the case is a frankly pretty irresponsible move by the FO regardless of how it turns out, IMO.

Stripling to the IL. Good time for Castillo to get another spot start, d'oh.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 11:31 AM EDT (#418968) #
Shouldn't have traded for an anti-vax baby regardless.
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#418974) #
I really donít like the White trade. I always feel that if a contender trades you during the deadline it shows they donít feel heís a playoff roster player.

Frasso was a personal favourite of mine in his draft year, and the Dodger did alright there. If he has a good year next year he could be a top 100 guy with his size, fastball velo and athleticism.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#418978) #
Baserunning
Montoyo 88 games -4.9
Schneider 15 games -1.3

On a rate basis, Jays are doing worse since Montoyo's dismissal. But they are more exciting.
92-93 - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#418980) #
What does that baserunning stat measure? Getting thrown out trying to steal second when you're up 1-0 in the 9th inning is much different than the same CS down 1-0 in the 4th.
John Northey - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#418981) #
So a quick summary...
Traded away
  • Max Castillo: a nothing before this season when he broke out in AA/AAA with a combined 1.92 ERA, and a 3.05 one here over 20 2/3 IP - hate to lose him, but a year ago none of us would've noticed.
  • Samad Taylor: despite a good year he wasn't put on the 40 man last winter. His best case was to become Whit Merrifield.
  • Nick Frasso: made it to A+ this season with a combined A/A+ ERA of 0.74 and 14.0 K/9 vs 2.5 BB/9 - this guy could look as bad as Syndergaard did for the Jays in a few years. 4th round pick in 2020, was #13 on the BA mid-season Jays prospect list.
  • Moises Brito: 20 year old RHP in his first pro season 1.86 ERA 32-1 SO-BB ratio. Looks good but way too soon to know if he will be anything of note.
  • Jordan Groshans: was a top 100 prospect for a few years, but his power vanished this year completely. At 22 he could rebound, but I expect the Jays saw his value dropping fast and decided to cash him in before he lost all value.
  • Jeremy Beasley: traded away - bet most didn't notice. Just for cash I think.
  • Andrew Vasquez: lost on waivers as a consequence of deals - 6 2/3 IP 6 ER and signed as a free agent so not a big loss.

Traded for
  • Zach Pop: 4 1/2 years of control, 105 ERA+, 3.1 BB/9 vs 7.8 K/9 lifetime - just 2 walks in 20 IP this year.
  • Anthony Bass: ex Jay cheap team option for 2023, crazy 290 ERA+ this year in 44 2/3 IP 2 BB/9 vs 9.1 K/9 - if he figured something out then he'll be a great bargain.
  • Mitch White: 5 1/2 years of control, 117 ERA+, did the Jays sneak a stud in here? Perfect timing with Stripling on the IL. Lets hope he can keep that up as a starter with an ERA+ over 110 would be sweet right now.
  • Whit Merrifield: the weird one - anti-vaxx who now need to get a shot or will lose half his pay. On May 10th was hitting 139/179/167 but 4-4 on the 11th and hitting 280/333/426 since. Speed up the wazoo - I expect him to get a LOT of CF time to give Springer a break (hits better than Zimmer, fields better than Tapia I'd have to hope) plus 2B time to ensure Espinal gets rest. Seems to be the type of player the Jays love - plays multiple positions, has speed.
  • Alex De Jesus: appeared an afterthought in the White deal - 20 year old SS/3B in A+ hitting 282/376/421, not much speed (just 8 lifetime stolen bases), an IFA in 2018 (first played in 2019) was #43 on the Dodgers prospect list at FanGraphs pre-season, listed as a 35+, but up to #18 on BA's mid-season update - most definitely a lottery ticket, a decent one.
I think that covers it. Basically 5 lottery tickets for 2 relievers, a starter, and an everyday 2B/CF. The next shoe will be when these guys get here and more players have to be dropped from the active roster. Gage/Peacock/Thornton are all at risk on the pitching side for Pop/Bass/White, for hitting it'll either be Collins (who is pretty much just a caddy for Kirk/Jansen) or Zimmer. I'm guessing Collins goes back to AAA as he has gotten into just 4 games since being called up on June 25th going 0-6.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#418984) #
I disagree that Castillo was a nothing prior to this year. He was always good enough for me to keep personal track of him, and i dont track fringe guys really.

Groshans is probably bad but this is the first year he's been less than a well above aveeage hitter and he's always been young for his levels.

Frasso is far too old for his level to love him as a prospect but his numbers are good enough that you gotta be interested in him at least until he gets up to a level he cant handle

For me those are three interesting kids and i dont love giving them up for guys who i wouldnt be shocked to see be replacement level for us.
jerjapan - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#418986) #
Me, i really like the miami deal.  you get years and options with pop, and you are betting that bass has really figured something out, rather than SSS.  i'll leave it to smarter minds than mine to parse the numbers.  worst case, one more middle reliever raises the floor.  best case, he's a legit #2/3 option.  Atkins has never been shy about punting on a prospect on the way down in the rankings, or trading top prospects in general, that's for sure.  i like this deal for miami too.

i know too many anti-vax people personally to judge anyone, but i like buying low on merrifield, even though i seem to be Castillo's biggest fan round here. as an 'asset' his vax status helped us buy low.  his versatility will help even if he doesn't rebound with the bat, and if he does, this lineup will be even more formidable.  what merrifield brings when he is 'on' is unique on this team. 

and i liked the White deal too, although Frasso is on the rise for sure.  you can't help the stripling comp, and people hated that deal round here at the time.  i haven't followed williams since, but i liked that trade.  i have a soft spot for versatility and this org values versatility in it's pitching as well, although their definition of who is eligible for a versatile role seems strangely rigid.  perhaps schneider will help.


uglyone - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#418987) #
At least we can all now agree that the idea of "saving money for the deadline" is dumb, eh?
Nigel - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#418991) #
Did anyone believe the "saving money for the deadline" schtick? I never did. I think its just something that management says when they are being questioned about the breadth of their offseason moves.
Thomas - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#418994) #
you can't help the stripling comp, and people hated that deal round here at the time

Well, not everybody...

Fangraphs has a write-up of the Dodgers deal. They don't declare a winner, which I appreciate in the rush of articles to say who won and lost the deadline. However, it's fair to say they are quite high on Frasso's potential, with all appropriate caveats.

jerjapan - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#418996) #
ugly, i'm vaxed and strongly pro-vax, but these guys aren't babies, and calling them that kinda makes you look like a privileged jerk.  try talking to one of 'them' sometime. 

i get the whole 'underwhelming' argument around the deadline, but these moves all seem smart to me.  they will go big - last year with Berrios.  and of course, a lot of people thought that was way to much to give up then.  if they see what they perceive as 'the right' move, they will make it, big or small.  disagree with their premise sure, but they are very consistent in the way they operate, which in itself is laudable.  and of course, risk-averse has its merits at times 

i'm all for going all-in but this ain't the hand.
jerjapan - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#418997) #
no more Vasquez and Beasley is a win on it's own, all power to em both.  just, somewhere else please.  

so what's the bullpen depth chart look like to you guys?  how does the Buffalo depth cue up after all this?  as for the injured guys, i have no idea of any news - any guesses?
92-93 - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#418998) #
The only thing dumber than "saving money for the deadline" is when people try to pretend that money saved when they run lower payrolls will be reinvested into the team in the future when the time is right. In reality, the only thing fans are advocating for is Rogers pocketing more money while ticket prices continue to rise.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#419004) #
privileged my ass. they're the privileged pampered ones.

half my family and friends are anti-vax. they're dummies and babies.

it is what it is.
Lylemcr - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#419006) #
I am a bit confused about the Whitfield trade, but other than that it was a light upgrade in depth. Here is how I see it.
1. With so many teams in the hunt this year, the costs went up. More buyers this year and less sellers. I don't think the Jays could match what was given up for Soto and Castillo.
2. The Jays have the core pieces in place. I like White as an insurance policy for Kikuchi. They gave up a couple decent prospects, but we can't expect to get something for nothing.
hypobole - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#419008) #
Some teams have set budgets. Some don't. Rogers did. Prime example was with AA back in 2014. AA learned to work with set budgets, which is one reason Atlanta with Liberty Media, another set budget owner, hired AA. Now AA might have been lying about what occured in 2014, but I believe him more than I agree with constantly grouchy posters here. But feel free to have your own opinions, just like ant-vaxxers have a right to their own opinions.
Nigel - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#419016) #
Oh I believe that Rogers sets an internal budget and that certain deadline transactions may or may not exceed those budget constraints. I just don't happen to believe that most teams plan around "saving budget room" for a deadline deal. That's pretty dumb.
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#419017) #
You donít believe in leaving buffer in your budget for unforeseen circumstances or opportunities? Quite frankly, I find that very hard to believe. Every single large corporation I know of leave a contingency within their operating budget. I canít see why baseball would be different. In fact I would believe all teams leave themselves some room, itís just a question of how much.
whiterasta80 - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#419019) #
Side note. Do we know that Merrifield is anti-vax or are we just assuming?

It's a subtle distinction but not being vaccinated is not the same as being anti vax.

I've only ever seen him question the efficacy of this particular vaccine.

Read a different way, his quote could actually be considered pro-vaccine in nature.
Nigel - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#419020) #
Of course I think that they have a built in buffer. I just don't believe that that amount is material. I don't believe that they were leaving $20m (for example) for some major acquisition. I believe that any material acquisition would be a special circumstance which would require ownership sign off.
slitheringslider - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#419022) #
I am not blown away by any of the upgrades nor do we feel like we need to be, but the trades address needs at a price that is palatable. Who are the Jays really worried about trading away that they are really going to regret? Groshans is becoming Austin Martin 2.0 with his lack of power, what's the likelihood he becomes better than Santiago Espinal? Max Castillo we basically want to become the next Mitch White or Ross Stripling. Frasso has potential sure but he's still just a 23 year old in A ball.

If anything the biggest gripe is probably the Jays player scouting/player development for not being able to produce more trade chips to cash in at the deadline. I am happy rolling with Manoah, Gausman, and Berrios as the 3 starters in a playoff series and the lineup we have is excellent top to bottom. Landing a high velo high K% reliever would've been ideal but the upgrades the Jays got is at least adequate.

On another note does anyone else get some Brandon League vibes from Pop? Delivery and lack of strikeouts with elite velo.
bpoz - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#419024) #
Alex De Jesus turned 20 in March with power and a strong arm. He walks a lot but also Ks too much. 338 ABs so far this year in (A/A+) so healthier than Groshans. I will wait and see. Injuries are seriously holding back the development of Groshans and Pearson. I sympathize for those 2. Pearson has weird setbacks. Mono, hernia and now I don't know.

I like Barger (LHB), Orelvis and De Jesus. All IFs with power and strong arms.

hypobole - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#419028) #
Ben Clemons with his terrific take on the deadline, including "Life Experience Comparisons".

The Jays: Look, shopping at Wayfair isnít glamorous, but it makes your house look better and doesnít cost that much.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/this-isnt-your-typical-deadline-winners-and-losers-post/
John Northey - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#419029) #
I think the Jays did what they needed to - yeah, I'd have loved to get Soto or one of the premium pitchers but the cost would've been sky high (Moreno and others, maybe even Bichette based on rumors I read). Right now the Jays have quality at every position (top 2/3rd of AL in sOPS+ at literally every position) and a very solid big 3 in the rotation (which is all that will start for most of the playoffs) plus a solid closer and setup in Romano/Garcia and decent secondary guys in Cimber/Mayza. Upgrades were needed for the floor - #4/5 starter and #5/6/7/8 relief and backup for CF. Those were addressed with White (SP), Pop (RP), Bass (RP who might be a #3/4 guy based on his performance this year), and Whitfield (can cover CF and 2B - the biggest risk positions on the field right now).

As to the budget stuff - I don't care. The Jays clearly had the budget this past winter to get whoever they wanted, just didn't win the biggest names for whatever reason (not the $, but Verlander wanting to go back to Houston for example, but he has said the Jays were very close) but still got what they needed most (replacements for Ray & Semien in Gausman & Chapman). This winter I suspect they'll chase down a solid long term CF so Springer can move to RF (yes, my usual ask - Moreno for Carroll please!) and clear out one of Hernandez/Gurriel for more pitching of some kind (SP or relief) while trying to sign the other long term (3-5 years max) depending on how minor league prospects are doing. There isn't much question the Jays can shoot over $200 million when needed but want to leave that space for when it is needed (for Vlad & Bo & Manoah most likely). This winter will be interesting - if the Jays are tied to Judge then we know they are given a massive budget to work with (dang would he look nice in RF/CF with Springer - the two of them alternating as needed for rest purposes). If Jansen is traded then we know Moreno is staying put. Etc.
scottt - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#419030) #
Talking to a guy who does his own research? Really?
Vaccines are effective and save lives.
The side effects are rare and less than the sequels of the virus.

What is most amusing with athletes is that most of these guys would be doing PEDs if they  knew they wouldn't be caught.

scottt - Wednesday, August 03 2022 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#419031) #
Pipeline ranks De Jesus 8th in the Jays system.
Slow, but great arm. Average 3B defense.
Easy power but strikes out too much.
Still hitting .282 .376 .421 in A+ ball.

uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#419050) #
Post-Deadline Roster

Lineup based on 2022 Stats:

* CF Springer 381pa, 122wrc+, 4.1war/650
* 1B Guerrero 443pa, 139wrc+, 4.0war/650
* DH Kirk 346pa, 142wrc+, 5.5war/650
* RF Teoscar 327pa, 128wrc+, 4.0war/650
* LF Gurriel 375pa, 123wrc+, 2.1war/650
* 3B Chapman 385pa, 121wrc+. 4.4war/650
* C Jansen 107pa, 111wrc+, 3.7war/650
* 2B Biggio 183pa, 101wrc+, 3.6war/650
* SS Bichette 454pa, 97wrc+, 2.3war/650

* UT Merrifield 420pa, 80wrc+, 1.1war/650
* OF Tapia 285pa, 94wrc+, 0.0war/650
* IF Espinal 385pa, 92wrc+, 2.7war/650
* C Moreno 60pa, 66wrc+, 2.2war/650

* C/1B Collins 79pa, 89wrc+, 0.0war/650
* OF Zimmer 86pa, 29wrc+, -2.3war/650





Lineup Based on Past 1 Calendar Year Stats

* CF Springer 569pa, 125wrc+, 4.1war/650
* 1B Guerrero 704pa, 137wrc+, 3.7war/650
* RF Teoscar 567ps, 137wrc+, 4.9war/650
* DH Kirk 469pa, 131wrc+, 4.6war/650
* LF Gurriel 558pa, 132wrc+. 3.2war/650
* 3B Chapman 578pa, 121wrc+, 4.8war/650
* C Jansen 172pa, 145wrc+, 6.8war/650
* SS Bichette 693pa, 106wrc+. 3.2war/650
* 2B Biggio 187pa, 106wrc+, 3.8war/650

* UT Merrifield 686pa, 84wrc+, 1.6war/650
* OF Zimmer 269pa, 63wrc+, 0.7war/650
* IF Espinal 478pa, 98wrc+, 3.3war/650
* C Moreno 60pa, 66wrc+, 2.2war/650

* OF Tapia 408pa, 80wrc+, -0.6war/650
* C/1B Collins 133pa, 85wrc+, -1.0war/650
uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#419054) #
Post-Deadline Roster


Starting Pitching based on this year's stats

* RH Manoah 60era-, 6.3ip/gm, 5.3war/32gms
* RH Gausman 76era-, 5.6ip/gm, 5.3war/32gms
* RH Berrios 123era-, 5.5ip/gm, 1.0war/32gms
* RH Stripling 78era-, 3.6ip/gm, 2.5war/32gms
* RH White 93era-, 3.7ip/gm, 1.6war/32gms
* LH Kikuchi 120era-, 4.1ip/gm, -0.4war/32gms

Bullpen based on this year's stats

* RH Romano 62era-, 1.0ip/gm, 1.5war/65gms
* RH Bass 36era-, 1.0ip/gm, 2.2war/65gms
* LH Mayza 61era-, 0.8ip/gm, 0.8war/65gms
* RH Garcia 63era-, 1.0ip/gm. 1.4war/65gms
* RH Phelps 59era-, 0.9ip/gm, 1.1war/65gms
* RH Cimber 80era-, 0.9ip/gm, 0.8war/65gms
* RH Pop 93era-, 1.1ip/gm, 0.7war/65gms
* LH Gage 34era-, 1.2ip/gm, 0.6war/65gms
* RH Thornton 106era-, 1.4ip/gm, 0.0war/65gms
* RH Richards 133era-, 1.0ip/gm, -0.7war/65gms


Starters based on Past 1 Calendar Year Stats

* RH Manoah 68era-, 6.1ip/gm, 4.9war/32gms
* RH Gausman 82era-, 5.5ip/gm, 4.7war/32gms
* RH Berrios 110era-, 5.6ip/gm, 2.1war/32gms
* RH Stripling 84era-, 3.4ip/gm, 2.0war/32gms
* RH White 92era-, 3.8ip/gm, 1.5war/32gms
* LH Kikuchi 125era-, 4.2ip/gm, -0.3war/32gms

Bullpen based on Past 1 Calendar Year Stats

* RH Romano 53era-, 1.0ip/gm, 1.9war/65gms
* RH Bass 49era-, 1.0ip/gm, 1.5war/65gms
* LH Mayza 59era-, 0.9ip/gm, 1.1war/65gms
* RH Phelps 59era-, 0.9ip/gm, 1.1war/65gms
* RH Cimber 69era-, 0.9ip/gm, 0.9war/65gms
* RH Garcia 86era-, 1.0ip/gm, 0.9war/65gms
* RH Pop 75era-, 1.1ip/gm, 1.0war/65gms
* LH Gage 34era-, 1.2ip/gm, 0.6war/65gms
* RH Thornton 109era-, 1.3ip/gm, 0.0war/65gms
* RH Richards 111era-, 1.0ip/gm, -0.3war/65gms
92-93 - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#419060) #
Guerrero and Bichette really stand out there. They have not played up to reasonable expectations over either time frame. Junior has been heating up, though. Bo should do his "run producing" batting 7th.
hypobole - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#419062) #
Bo wRC+

2022
vs LHP 67
vs RHP 104

2021
vs LHP 156
vs RHP 111

Career
vs LHP 137
vs RHP 111

uglyone - Thursday, August 04 2022 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#419068) #
That's interesting.
bpoz - Friday, August 05 2022 @ 07:44 AM EDT (#419137) #
Merrifield looked really good. Great hustle.

Atkins spoke. I liked that he gushed about the additions yet said basically nothing. No talk about expectations but that this is a group that "we" feel confident in.

My end of 2021 season prospect list had Max Castillo #13 (13 on KC's list). Samad Taylor my #17 (23 KC).

NYM reliever A Ottavino was a mediocre minor league SP but became a good reliever. E Diaz was a good SP in the minors but is now a good closer.

Jordan Romano was a decent minor league SP but now a great closer. We need more of this to happen from our farm and trades/pickups like Thornton & Beasley.
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