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Road trip! Beginning with the annual pilgrimage to Comerica Park. Not the hooly blisful martir for to seke, but rather to tangle with a Tiger or two. Or twenty-six.

The Tigers, until this very week, had sported the best record in the entire American League, a development I don't recall anyone forecasting. I recall myself noting that while their awful performances in recent years had landed them some very tasty places in the amateur draft, they didn't seem to be reaping the usual rewards. The Tigers got the first pick in the amateur draft twice in a three year period - (in half a century, the Blue Jays have never picked first overall) - they ended up with Casey Mize in 2018 and Spencer Torkelson in 2020. They missed out on Adley Rutschmann and Bobby Witt Jr the year in between. After a promising rookie year, Mize basically lost two full seasons to injury, and Torkelson spent three years looking like A Flop.

Mize has made it back into the rotation, and is having himself a fine season (9-4, 3.40.) He gives up lots of hits, and he doesn't strike out a whole lot of guys, but he doesn't walk a lot of hitters and generally keeps the ball in the yard. In other words, he's a younger version of Chris Bassitt.

As for Torkelson, after his disappointing 2024 season, he looks quite likely to duplicate his 2023 season numbers - but just a little better. There are incremental improvements - he's hitting a few more doubles, which has given his Slugging a bit of a boost, and he's drawing a few more walks to lift his OnBase a little. He's a 30-35 HR guy who's gone from .233/.313/.446 to .239/.339/.487 - and of course, offense in the AL is down a little from what it was in 2023, which makes what he's done more useful.

Of course, when you get a player as good as Tarik Skubal in the ninth round, you shouldn't be allowed to complain too much. The Blue Jays have been extremely good at missing Skubal's turn in the rotation. They haven't faced him since July 2023. On that occasion, Skubal was making just his second start of the season after returning from flexor tendon surgery, and the Tigers were still building him up. He was, at that point, just on the verge of becoming Tarik Skubal. On this occasion, he was pulled after four shutout innings and 63 pitches. (The Jays would come back to win in ten.) His one other appearance against the Jays came back in June 2022 - the Jays got to him for four runs in the fourth inning, keyed by Guerrero's two run homer, and tagged him with the L, behind Ross Stripling's six innings of one-hit shutout..

Like John Schneider, A.J. Hinch has taken merry advantage of the fact that he's got some very moveable pieces on his roster. Javier Baez has started more games (31) at shortstop than anywhere else, but he's seen plenty of action in centre field (28 starts) and third base (16 starts) as well. Zach McKinstry is as close as Hinch has to a regular third baseman (47 starts), but you can also see him in right field (28 starts), left field (9 starts), or shortstop (9 starts) as well. This is helpful, because the two men usually in the lineup at shortstop (Trey Sweeney) and centre field (Parker Meadows) don't hit much at all. But everybody else does and has. Only two AL teams have scored more runs.

As everyone knows, the Blue Jays are world-beaters and Yankee Killers at home in their dome. On the road, they're not so great. Basically, the offense falls off a cliff. They've scored 5.35 Runs per Game at the RC, and just 3.85 Runs per Game on the road. Clearly a Data Table of the Home/Road splits will be called for at some point. Gosh, who will provide such a thing?

The Blue Jays have hit .274/.346/.454 in their 54 home games - that's a pretty nice OPS of .800, and the highest scoring team in baseball (Yankees, damn Yankees) has a collective OPS of .787. So, yeah, the Jays have been swinging it really well at home. 

But when they get south of the border, then comes the crash - .246/.317/.357, which is an OPS of .674, and just a handful of teams have done worse. So let's look at the individuals involved and see who's taken the Biggest Fall. 

And because I have mighty Excel skills and I don't mind showing off, I have pro-rated all individual figures to that of a 162 game schedule (so they resemble normal season numbers.) I have done this by the clever tactic of multiplying all home numbers by 3 and all road numbers by 3.375. Math skillz, I haz them. 

At home, this is an impressive lineup.

              G   PA   AB   R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS   BB   SO  BAVG   OBP   SLG    OPS
                                                                    
Guerrero    159  711  594  102  168  42  0  27  108  3  6  105  114  .283  .392  .490    .882
Bichette    153  684  651   93  204  54  3  33  111  12  6  27  105  .313  .346  .558    .904
Springer    153  618  510  117  156  27  0  33  87  15  0  90  117  .306  .411  .553    .964
Clement    162  579  540   69  153  30  3  9  60  0  3  18  48  .283  .309  .400    .709
Kirk    135  540  480   45  135  18  0  12  75  0  0  51  51  .281  .350  .394    .744
Barger    132  480  438   69  126  30  0  27  78  6  3  36  102  .288  .346  .541    .887
Gimenez    93  360  324   48  75  9  0  12  39  12  3  18  48  .231  .308  .370    .679
Lukes    120  360  306   54  78  12  0  6  60  0  3  39  36  .255  .342  .353    .695
Santander    81  336  297   30  57  12  0  9  33  0  0  36  84  .192  .277  .323    .600
Straw    138  303  279   63  66  24  0  3  24  12  0  21  42  .237  .290  .355    .645
Schneider    66  189  150   36  42  9  0  9  27  0  3  33  45  .280  .429  .520    .949
Varsho    45  177  162   36  39  9  3  18  45  3  0  12  51  .241  .288  .667    .955
Wagner    54  171  150   27  51  18  0  0  12  0  0  18  33  .340  .411  .460    .871
Roden    63  156  132   27  30  6  3  3  15  0  0  9  33  .227  .308  .386    .694
Heineman    54  150  129   27  48  15  0  6  36  3  0  9  30  .372  .408  .628   1.036
Clase    42  135  117   15   30  3  0  3  12  9  0  15  30  .256  .356  .359    .715

But then, this happens.

             G    PA   AB    R   H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS   BB   SO  BAVG   OBP   SLG    OPS
                                                                    
Bichette    162  732  675   57  165  37  0   7   74   0  3   47  125  .245  .295  .330    .625
Guerrero    159  685  587  101  169  20  0  14   47  14  0   84  81  .287  .389  .391   .780
Springer    152  597  513   71  132  27  3  20   88  24  0   64  111  .257  .337  .441   .778
Clement    155  591  533   81  149  34  0  3   24  10  7   47  64  .278  .331  .361   .692
Kirk    138  540  493   41  162  20  0  10   71   0  0   41  54  .329  .375  .432   .807
Barger    115  432  408   61  105  41  0  17   61   3  0   24  122  .256  .297  .479   .776
Gimenez    101  398  348   34  71  14  0  3   34  20  0   34  78  .204  .291  .272   .562
Lukes    122  388  327   34   88  10  0  10   44   3  3   47  57  .268  .366  .392   .758
Straw    128  338  300   34   74  7  0  0   30  10  3   14  51  .247  .284  .270   .554
Santander    78  327  287   14   47  3  0  10   24   0  0   41  91  .165  .268  .282   .550
Clase    68  226  206   17   37  7  0  3   17   0  3   17  61  .180  .242  .262   .505
Roden    71  199  179   10   34  10  0  0   10   0  3   14  44  .189  .254  .245   .500
Wagner    54  182  152   10   20  3  0  0    7   3  0   24  41  .133  .278  .156   .433
Heineman    57  162  142   34   44  3  0  3   14   3  0   10  30  .310  .383  .405   .788
Varsho    30  138  128    7   20  7  0  7   17   0  0    3  47  .158  .171  .368   .539
Schneider    54  135  111   14   14  0  0  7   10   0  0   24  47  .121  .275  .303   .578

Two things leap out at me, and having ducked out of their path, I will tell you what they are.

First, the power just dries up. The number of home runs falls almost in half, and those 30 or so Big Flys turning into Fly Outs accounts for a sizeable chunk of the drop in BAVG, OnBase, and Slugging (roughly two thirds of it, I reckon.)

One hitter in particular has really struggled away from home. I mean, most of them aren't hitting nearly as well, but Bo Bichette really stands out: I mean, yikes! - .313/.346/.558 at home and .245/.295/.330 on the road? His OPS drops 279 points, from .904 to .625 (Wagner, Varsho, and Schneider have even bigger drop offs on the road, but their samples are pretty tiny, just 40-54 road plate appearances.)

Guerrero, Springer, and Barger are still solid hitters on the road, although their collective power shortage is not good. Kirk and Lukes have actually hit a little bit better away from home, and Ernie Clement doesn't care where the games are played. Bichette is the biggest culprit, and here's the thing - I'm pretty sure it's a fluke. Just One of Those Things. Coming into this season, Bo Bichette had about the smallest Home/Road split of anyone on the team. He's actually been a better hitter on the road in each of the last three seasons. Go figure.

Matchups

Thu 24 July - Lauer (5-2, 2.80) vs Olson (4-3, 2.71)
Fri 25 July - Berrios (6-4, 3.87) vs Montero (4-2, 4.28)
Sat 26 July - Gausman (7-7, 4.01) vs Skubal (10-3, 2.19)
Sun 27 July - Scherzer (1-0, 5.14) vs Flaherty (5-10, 4.77)
Toronto at Detroit, July 24-27 | 324 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
hypobole - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#464229) #
On Wednesday, Tarik Skubal went on the 3 day paternity list, which is why he's scheduled for Saturday. Hoping the baby decides to hang in a few more days. But I'm guessing if the baby tries that, some Tigers fan doctor will induce labour. Not sure exactly what inducing labour entails, but I think it means we'll be facing dad on Saturday.
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#464231) #
Little, Fisher, Green, and Nance are all very fresh for tonight. It would be nice if they could stay away from Hoffman.

Clement starts for the 41st time in the last 42 games against a RHP with typical career splits.

I don't quite understand why Varsho needs to play in Buffalo before rejoining the team.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#464233) #
It should be noted that Blue Jay pitchers have surrendered 80 home runs at home and 56 on the road. The Blue Jay batters have hit 70 at home and 36 on the road. It appears to me that there are three things at work in that last figure, 36,- the Blue Jay offence has less power than their opponents, the RC has been more conducive to home runs than the neutral park this year and (for some reason) Blue Jays hitters have inexplicably performed somewhat worse than expected on the road this year even taking into account the first two items.
mendocino - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#464234) #
Mark Feinsand @Feinsand

Eugenio Suárez is the crown jewel of this trade market, but sources say Arizona -- which is in sell mode -- is asking for "a ton" for the slugger, and if that price isn't met, the Diamondbacks might hold him and try to re-sign him in the offseason.
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#464235) #
Hoping the baby decides to hang in a few more days.

As best as I can tell, this is the first child for Skubal and his partner. First babies have been known to arrive later than expected (Eephus himself arrived ten days after his due date, and my sister had a similar experience.) As far as I know, they wouldn't induce labour for the heck of it, or to make sure he makes his start against the Jays. It's for specific circumstances.
hypobole - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#464237) #
I was trying make an another attempt at humour.

But you caused me to look up when would labour be induced. There are a number of reasons like pregnancies extending beyond 41 weeks, medical conditions like high blood pressure, water breaking without contractions and a number of others.

And you seem to be correct, husband making a scheduled start isn't there.
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#464238) #
I was trying make an another attempt at humour.

I figured as much, but I'd really like Skubal to be Unavailable!
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#464239) #
Imagine that. Disrespecting Ernie.
uglyone - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#464240) #
Friggin' ernie.
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#464241) #
You haven’t caught on yet eh? My power is unmatched.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#464242) #
Never disrespect Ernie or question his greatness.
hypobole - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#464243) #
Just about to thank you for the Ernie complaint earlier. Keep it up.
Katie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#464244) #
Well, this game was flipped on its head.
Glevin - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#464245) #
This team really is something else.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#464246) #
Now Loperfido has figured it out too? (884 OPS.) The magical 2025 Blue Jays season continues.
hypobole - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#464247) #
It's th9 opposite, greenfrog. 92-93 disses Ernie, Ernie rakes. 92-93 with no prio complaint means an 0-fer upcoming.
Katie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#464248) #
Keith Law's midseason Top 60 is out and he has two Jays on it: Arjun Nimmala (#36) and JoJo Parker (#55), as well as Trey Yeasavage as an Honourable Mention.

For comparison, Boston has 3 players, the Orioles and Yankees 2 and the Rays don't have any.

In case you were concerned about the state of the Dodgers, they have five outfielders on the list.
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#464249) #
The funny thing is you can literally just state face about Ernie the Great and it’s perceived as a slight.

Great swing on that cookie.
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#464250) #
*facts
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#464251) #
Two enormous swings from Vladdy tonight. It would be huge if they could win this without Hoffman.
earlweaverfan - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#464252) #
Magpie, I have known you over the years to be an erudite correspondent - at least eruditer than me. But casually dropping Canterbury Tales! I have been one-upped for sure. (I no longer use the expression "you trumped my ace").

Anyhow, you no sooner identify a Jays power weakness AWAY, when they hit twice the number of homers tonight than they did in the Yankees series. I think it’s high time you noted how rarely the Jays pitch a complete game! The fates will conspirel to make you look foolish!
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#464253) #
What was Ernie's WPA on that three-run home run in a tie ballgame?
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#464255) #
I think it’s high time you noted how rarely the Jays pitch a complete game!

Just one this year (Chris Bassitt, two weeks ago, shortened by rain.) I just ran outside and rolled up the car windows. Tonight could be the night!
Nigel - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#464256) #
92-93 - Clement can’t hit RHP, Clement isn’t clutch - factsonly in 2025. Fair comment. Clement responsibility for Barger slumping because of having to move back and forth from the INF - not so much:)
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#464257) #
Didn't the Jays beat the crap out of this pitcher three weeks ago, when he was a Yankee?
Cracka - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#464258) #
This is Eric Lauer's 190th professional start, but he's never completed one before. Tonight could be the night!
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#464259) #
You may have completely missed the point when I said that, Nigel. It was greenfrog who speculated that moving Barger around wasn't good for him.

And to answer your question, greenfrog - a lot more than the WAR Clement has put up over the last month! He was getting close to catching Santander, so it will help him separate a bit from the bottom.
92-93 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#464260) #
Schneider has a bunch of relievers who "need work", so it would be stunning if Lauer even gets close to the complete game.
uglyone - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#464261) #

Left-hander Brandyn Garcia and right-hander Ashton Izzi are headed back to the Arizona Diamondbacks from the Seattle Mariners for first baseman Josh Naylor, sources tell ESPN. That's the full trade.

And so begins deadline season. Buckle up.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) July 25, 2025
Mike Green - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#464262) #
The Blue Jays were hitting the ball hard early in the game, but at people (mainly Wenceel Perez). And then the worm turned.

I suspect they may have had their season high of balls hit with EV greater than 100 mph. It's at 11 and counting.
Nigel - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#464263) #
I often miss the point. Back to lurking.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#464264) #
Well, all the games count. Clement’s 2025 WAR after tonight will be high — probably top third of MLB players with a comparable number of PA. He’s having a very good season, even if he’s doing it differently than players who rely more on offense as opposed to defense-with-some-offense.
mathesond - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#464265) #
Lauer outlasts Bichette and Springer.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#464266) #
Izzi and Garcia are #13 and #19 on BA’s ranking of Seattle’s prospects (post-draft).
James W - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#464267) #
What was Ernie's WPA on that three-run home run in a tie ballgame?

.352
Cracka - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#464268) #
I actually thought that the rain was going to end this game, and give Lauer a "shortened" CG. But I'm glad that Chad was able to get some work in and give up his customary long ball.
scottt - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#464269) #
Garcia was an 11th rounder in 23. He's been converted to a reliever. Izzi was a 4th round pick in 22, but out of HS, so he hasn't reached AA yet.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#464270) #
Lauer is now 6-2, 2.61 ERA, 9.26 K/9 and 2.09 BB/9. Pretty good.
mathesond - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#464271) #
I'm starting to think that if the Jays trade for a starter, Scherzer might be the one to go to the 'pen.
scottt - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#464272) #
I am glad the Yankees slide by half a game in their off day. Curious to see if the Phillies can take the Bronx series given that they face Warren and Stroman.
SK in NJ - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#464273) #
Nice to have a laugher where the Jays win and only have to use Chad Green out of the bullpen.

Lauer making it impossible to take him out of the rotation if/when they add a starter in the next 7 days. Either going with the 6 man rotation or Scherzer graciously moves to the bullpen. I doubt the latter will happen, so it would probably be the former.
scottt - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#464274) #
The Jays picked Grant Rogers 3 picks before Garcia and Ryan Jennings 2 picks after Izzi.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#464275) #
With an older rotation and Scherzer’s thumb issue, I kind of like the idea of a six-man rotation for the rest of the regular season. Besides, it could become a five-man rotation at any time (if someone gets injured).

What to do with Manoah if the team adds a pitcher via trade?
mathesond - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#464276) #
"What to do with Manoah if the team adds a pitcher via trade?"

I suspect he'd have to force his way on to the roster by ripping it up at AAA, and even so I figure he'd be a bullpen/bulk guy for '25, with an eye to starting next year.
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#464277) #
I don't quite understand why Varsho needs to play in Buffalo before rejoining the team.

Because they can't figure out who goes to make room?

I'm serious! Loperfido - another LH batting outfielder - is the obvious guy, but he's hit .324/.361/.529 since coming up. How about Wagner? Well, he's only hit .341/.396/.463 since coming back. Maybe Davis Schneider? But he's a RH bat and he's hit .250/.378/.515 since coming back up.

I suspect they're waiting until they know who's going to be on the roster after the deadline...
Magpie - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#464278) #
Scherzer graciously moves to the bullpen.

Max hasn't made a regular season relief appearance since... checks... double-checks! 2008! Seventeen years ago!

He has come out of the bullpen in the post-season. Kevin Gausman remembers. Game 5, Giants-Dodgers 2021 NLDS. Justin Turner scored on Bellinger's ninth inning single to put the Dodgers up 2-1. Gausman came out of the San Francisco pen to get the last two outs. And Mad Max - who had lost 1-0 in Game 3 - came out of the Dodger pen and set down the Giants in order for his one and only career Save.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#464279) #
What if Varsho and Manoah are on their way out? I can see Varsho for Cease.
metafour - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#464280) #
Dalimon, they are not trading Varsho who is under control until the end of 2026 for 3-months of Dylan Cease.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 24 2025 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#464281) #
Yeah true but they aren't trading Orelvis Martinez for him either. I doubt the Loperfido and Schneider's of the world get a trade done. Reports say the Jays are in on Cease. If your SD and listening to offers from Toronto, who else would you ask for to give up one of your top 2 starting pitchers in Cease?
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:06 AM EDT (#464282) #
What reports say Toronto is in on Cease? Most rumors are for clicks/views this time of year with nothing but an (un)educated guess.
pooks137 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:25 AM EDT (#464283) #
With an older rotation and Scherzer’s thumb issue, I kind of like the idea of a six-man rotation for the rest of the regular season. Besides, it could become a five-man rotation at any time (if someone gets injured).

The problem with running a six-man rotation with the modern 13-man pitcher limit on the 26-man roster is that it forces you to run one reliever short.

Schneider and the current bullpen composition can't really afford to shave off a bullpen spot and an optionable AAA shuttle opening for two months. They are currently running without a long man, have too many one innings relievers, Schneider rarely lets guys go multiple innings with low pitch counts, etc.

The Jays are already going to have a bullpen roster crunch if they acquire multiple pen arms next week.

Michael - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:16 AM EDT (#464284) #
The way you make a 6 man rotation work with limited pitchers is to do what Bassitt did before the ASB and have pitchers available to throw an inning on their throwing off day 3 days after their start. If every pitcher does this you get an extra IP from each of them each time through - you might not need it if someone goes longer or has a blow out - but it gives you the extra outs you need from one less reliever.

Obviously it is the sort of things the team needs to be behind, both the SP being willing, and the team as it is the sort of thing that if someone ends up injured is very likely to be blamed, so a manager needs support to try something unorthodox, but I think it could work.
scottt - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 02:04 AM EDT (#464285) #
They want to make sure Varsho is ready to hit. If they don't mind letting Barger face LHP they can send Jimenez down. They could play Lukes less.
Jonny German - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:22 AM EDT (#464286) #
It’s bananas how well this team has played. From James G @orth.ca on Bluesky:

Best first 103 games for Jays

1985: 65-38
1992: 62-41
2025: 61-42
1987: 60-43
1993: 59-44
Glevin - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:52 AM EDT (#464287) #
Since June 1st, the Jays worst two offensive players still on team have been Straw (easily) and then Lukes. Straw should be the one sent down probably but I don't see that as likely. Most likely is that they end up sending down Loperfido or Wagner.

The Clement stuff is hilarious because he seems to know when people on here get frustrated with him and seems to always have a big game after. It's also funny how he'll go like 1/57 and then have a great game and people are like "that's why he's playing against RHP" as if his numbers against them aren't objectively atrocious.
greenfrog - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 07:37 AM EDT (#464288) #
Clement now ranks #53 in fWAR (2.3) out of 158 qualified players in MLB, even though he ranks only #101 on that list in terms of PA.

The Blue Jays are getting a *lot* of bang for their buck from Clement in 2025.
uglyone - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 07:38 AM EDT (#464289) #
vRHP

1. LF Lukes 214pa .360obp 115wrc+
2. DH Springer 281pa .394obp 156wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 338pa .379obp 125wrc+
4. RF Barger 239pa .336obp 140wrc+
5. C Alejandro 244pa .365obp 123wrc+
6. SS Bichette 346pa .321obp 113wrc+
7. CF Varsho 81pa .272obp 142wrc+
8. 3B Wagner 101pa .366obp 105wrc+
9. 2B Gimenez 172pa .333obp 100wrc+

B. UT Schneider 36pa .306obp 93wrc+
B. OF Straw 104pa .253obp 46wrc+
B. IF Clement 248pa .279obp 57wrc+
B. C Heineman 69pa .368obp 129wrc+

X. OF Loperfido 24pa .333obp 160wrc+
X. OF Clase 81pa .288obp 78wrc+
X. OF Santander 159pa .270obp 68wrc+
X. OF Roden 98pa .276obp 68wrc+



vLHP

1. 2B Clement 125pa .403obp 177wrc+
2. DH Springer 107pa .333obp 114wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 107pa .439obp 174wrc+
4. LF Schneider 67pa .403obp 150wrc+
5. C Alejandro 96pa .354obp 103wrc+
6. SS Bichette 104pa .317obp 104wrc+
7. CF Varsho 19pa .105obp -59wrc+
8. 3B Barger 54pa .278obp 82wrc+
9. RF Straw 97pa .323obp 91wrc+

B. UT Wagner 15pa .214obp 23wrc+
B. OF Lukes 26pa .304obp 75wrc+
B. IF Gimenez 66pa .212obp 22wrc+
B. C Heineman 34pa .455obp 202wrc+

X. OF Loperfido 12pa .417obp 127wrc+
X. IF Jimenez 18pa .222obp 49wrc+
X. OF Santander 50pa .280obp 46wrc+
X. OF Clase 31pa .290obp 44wrc+
X. OF Roden 13pa .308obp 41wrc+
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:06 AM EDT (#464290) #
Thanks Jonny. They’ve been almost as good as the post deadline 2015 team, which is insane. That was the most dominant stretch of Blue Jays baseball I’ve ever watched. This team gets there in a different way, but it’s been just as fun of a ride.

I’m now in a spot where I keep asking myself (and I admit it feels crazy to think this way) “can this team play better, post deadline, with a couple smart adds”?

The deadline can’t come soon enough! I hope everyone else is having a blast, like me.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:18 AM EDT (#464291) #
Buster Olney and John Herman both writing the Jays have been discussing Cease with Padres and "checking in." It's definitely all chatter but trade speculation is addicting. It's just very very interesting to wonder how they improve this team and who they trade and how they also deal with players who will be out of options.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:29 AM EDT (#464292) #
From another site:

"What the Padres Could Gain From a Cease Deal

The Padres’ logic for trading Cease, despite holding a Wild Card spot, centers on asset management. Cease is a free agent after this season and is set to earn $13.75 million. If they keep him and he departs, San Diego would only get a fourth-round compensatory pick due to their luxury tax status. By trading him now, the Padres could secure multiple controllable players or prospects, especially if a contender overbids for a frontline arm. The deal allows San Diego to strengthen its roster for both the remainder of this season and future years, rather than risk losing Cease for a minimal return."
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#464293) #
Bang on, Glevin. I was thinking of pointing out Lukes' recent play too before that big swing last night.

And frankly, there's been very little frustration in here, if any at all, about Clement playing while Varsho and Gimenez are injured. Ernie's big swings the last two nights have moved him up 2 spots and he now has only the 10th worst WPA in the AL among qualified hitters.

Straw isn't going anywhere, he's the perfect 13th man and will help the Jays have a very good OF defense to close out games down the stretch. Jimenez is the one who will be dropped for Varsho as of now.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:40 AM EDT (#464294) #
The writers for each team at the Athletic guessed which player (minors or majors) will be wearing a new uni post-deadline. Bannon's pick is Loperfido citing the 40 man outfield depth and Loperfido's stock being highest among the young guys.

Makes perfect sense to me and dovetails nicely with the Pirates needs, especially if they either move defence deficient Reynolds to DH or trade him away somehow.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#464295) #
I'm highly sceptical that the Padres would strengthen their roster for this season by trading away Cease.
greenfrog - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#464296) #
Fan disses player. Player immediately hits huge home run in an important game (going 2/4 with four RBI). Fan wakes up and disses player again.
James W - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:13 AM EDT (#464297) #
Obviously - if the causation implies the correlation, might as well repeat the causation.
SK in NJ - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#464298) #
I’m somewhat intrigued by Loperfido now with Popkins in the fold. He has some decent tools and seems like a hard worker/coachable type who will maximize whatever he can on the field. I’m less bullish on Wagner as a player. Doesn’t play great defense and has limited power. I think he’s the guy to send down for Varsho (or ideally trade at the deadline). Jimenez has more defensive value and has hit LHP at every level so until Gimenez comes back he has a place on the roster.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised now if the Jays don’t add a bat. Schneider’s resurgence has essentially removed the one glaring weakness the team could have upgraded on the position player side. Unless they are adding someone who is clearly better than one of their existing players, it doesn’t make sense to add there just for the sake of adding. Unless they are trading for Suarez, I’m not sure that upgrade exists in this market.

Also, I agree Clement having a big game after being criticized here has become a fun meme this season.
uglyone - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#464299) #
Im skeptical Loperfido can be a sell high guy but absolutely do it if possible.
uglyone - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#464300) #
Also i've lost no faith at all in Roden coming up and being a very good two way player sometime soon.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#464301) #
To be fair, we're not the only ones. AJ Hinch dissed Clement by intentionally walking Barger.
electric carrot - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#464302) #
The only player I will support being traded to the Jays at the deadline is David Cone.

Ok, I mean someone who fits the profile of David Cone. I think an ace is really the missing piece here. Good luck finding him Atkins. Dylan Cease? Not sure he moves the needle that much. Anyway the Padres aren't trading him at the deadline -- let's be real about it.

Tom Henke? Maybe if there was a Henke out there I would go for that. Good luck with that one too!

Don't mess with the position players. There's some special baseball voodoo magic with these guys. Don't mess with it! Do NOT mess with it Atkins! Put the phone down!
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#464303) #
That’s the second time, right? Didn’t they walk Santander to get to Clement in the last series at the Dome?
Glevin - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#464304) #
"Fan disses player. Player immediately hits huge home run in an important game (going 2/4 with four RBI). Fan wakes up and disses player again.

Dissing player=accurately reporting his numbers? I don't see this as a criticism of Ernie anyway. He is terrible against righties but it's not like he isn't trying or something. He just shouldn't be playing regularly against them. It's a criticism of Schneider who somehow doesn't seem to acknowledge the splits.

Blake Murphy posted "Since May 8, the Blue Jays have only given 14.3% of their plate appearances to hitters below league average. The league-wide rate is 47.5% in that time."

I think this is clearly the secret to the Jays success and why it's hard to upgrade the offense. If you look from June 1st, where do you upgrade? Straw is easily worst but Varsho should be back in a few games. Wagner, Schneider, and Loperfido who are part-time players have WRC+ of 159, 151, and 149 in that period. Not easy to trade for better production. Similarly for starters. All the guys have been good to fine over the last couple of months so trading for some mid-rotation guy just doesn't make sense. (If there is an ace to be had, it makes a ton of sense). Bullpen makes most sense to upgrade. Add one or two guys there and it can be a huge improvement.


Mike Green - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#464305) #
After a loss on May 27, the club was 26-28 and 8 games behind. Since then, they have gone 35-14 and are 4.5 games ahead. That's an awfully fine almost 2 month stretch of over .700 ball.

Full credit to Ross Atkins and John Schneider for getting quite a bit better at their work. In player age terms, they are the equivalent of 25-26, so it does happen as they learn (but often not).
electric carrot - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#464306) #
"If you look from June 1st, where do you upgrade? Straw is easily worst but Varsho should be back in a few games. Wagner, Schneider, and Loperfido who are part-time players have WRC+ of 159, 151, and 149 in that period. Not easy to trade for better production. Similarly for starters. All the guys have been good to fine over the last couple of months so trading for some mid-rotation guy just doesn't make sense. (If there is an ace to be had, it makes a ton of sense). Bullpen makes most sense to upgrade. Add one or two guys there and it can be a huge improvement."

Yes, I agree with Glevin on all of this.
Mike Green - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#464307) #
Glevin, I prefer to look at splits over a longer time frame. Clement added some power in his age 27 season in triple A. Since that time he has gone .268/.287/.375 vs. RH pitchers in the major leagues. That's not world-beating, but entirely typical for a fine-fielding middle infielder.
Cracka - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#464308) #
I really do think the Padres would like to trade Cease. He's got a great reputation and strikes out a lot of guys, but he's also been their worst starter this year and has a poor track record in the postseason. I don't think they see him as a playoff starter, but there are probably a bunch of other teams that do. I bet he gets moved...
Katie - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#464309) #
The Padres reportedly also don't have a ton of financial flexibility, so trading Cease would allow them to free up cash in order to add someone else in the same or a different deal.
uglyone - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#464310) #
Yeah i don't expect Clement to be as bad vRHP or as good vLHP as he has been this year going forward.
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#464311) #
The only lefty the Jays are facing before the trade deadline is Skubal, but they are slated to face 3 lefties (Bubic, Cameron, and Rich Hill!) when the Royals roll into town to kick off August. It would indeed make sense to keep Jimenez around through that stretch, assuming he isn't traded before then.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#464312) #
Wagner, Schneider, and Loperfido who are part-time players have WRC+ of 159, 151, and 149 in that period. Not easy to trade for better production.

Well of course it’s hard to find better production than that, but to me that’s the wrong analysis. To me the question is, can you find someone who you expect to produce more than what you expect to get from any of those three guys? And to me, that should be an easy Yes. Those guys are doing a great job but I think it’s unrealistic to expect anything close to that production to continue. They should regress, so it’s not bad to look for an above average hitter with power to protect against that. I do agree though that 2 back of the bullpen arms are by far the biggest area of need, and would make the team a serious WS threat. What a fun time to be a fan!

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#464313) #
From what I've read on Crase, San Diego would only consider trading him to improve their offense. The Jays aren't a fit there are they have no one to offer that's a cheap MLB regular or MLB-ready in the minors. Barger is one of the top bats in the lineup - no way he goes... Loperfido or Jimenez doesnt get it done and Roden would need a lot more added.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#464314) #
I'd be inclined to keep Loperfido over Varsho since one has 1 year remaining of control and the other ... 6 or 7?

That's a big difference and although Varsho is a much better player does he improve the team as much as Loperfido + whatever you get back in trade for Varsho + whatever you spend the ten million or more that Varsho is likely to be paid next year?

The team is performing without Varsho and has more flexibility carrying Schneider and Lukes in terms of splits and they have the defensive element with Straw and Santander hopefully returning before September ends.

I want the best possible return in trade, but I'm ignorant to values. For all I know Loperfido may be worth much more on the trade market than Varsho already in which case, ship him out though for the record I'd prefer to keep him and Lukes over Schneider, Wagner and Jimenez.
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#464315) #
I think 2024 Loperfido might be closer to reality than the 2025 small sample version.
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#464316) #
The Jays will not be trading their cheap, elite defensive CF with 25HR power. Straw has a 67 OPS+ and that isn't far from his norm.

Nor will they be trading their starting SS who leads all of baseball in hitting with RISP.

Division leaders don't trade away regulars.
Glevin - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#464317) #
The drop from Varsho to is bigger than any gain they would get from trading him.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#464318) #
I know this is meaningless, but if you want a good chuckle it’s worth looking at the proposed offers for Cease in the MLBtraderumors story.

From Tampa:
Taj Bradley +

From the Yankees:
Schlittler, Lagrange, Jones, Selvidge, Stroman

For Cease and Suarez

From the Jays:
Varsho and Tiedemann

SK in NJ - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#464319) #
There's no chance they trade Varsho, nor should they. An elite defensive CF with power and league average-ish offense is extremely valuable. Straw is one of the worst hitters in the league, and Loperfido (while I think he has some potential) is no where near a lock to reach it. Lukes isn't a CF defensively. Varsho also has a year of control for 2026. The Jays are leading the division with a real shot at the best record in the AL this season with the right upgrades. They won't be subtracting from the big league roster to do it, unless it involves the fringey/depth pieces (Wagner, Loperfido, etc).
scottt - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#464320) #
Tiedemann isn't starting games in August.
Ryan Day - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#464321) #
Loperfido hasn't played centre since being recalled, suggesting the Jays may not see him as a centre fielder.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#464322) #

Has Varsho been a regular this season, truthfully? How healthy will he be this year and next and how can you say the drop off is too much? Sure the drop off offensively and defensively in CF will be too much but you have to compare that to the increase elsewhere, obviously. If Cease comes in for Varsho you get a pitcher with 30% K rate among starters who has 2 months to improve under Pete Walker.

Look at the names the Padres are looking at right now: Kwan, Robert Jr and Laureano. You have a surplus of OFs and you're going to have to suffer on defense eventually if you plan on playing Springer and Santander in the playoffs. To me the question is which do you prefer?

Playoff set up of

a) Varsho in center field with Springer and Lukes/Schneider in the corners and Gausman/Berrios starting games 1/2

b) Straw in center field with Lukes/Scheider and Springer in the corners and Gausman/Cease starting games 1/2

* Santander assumes DH role in both cases

Some preferable options people have bandied about is to acquire a "Ryan type" starting pitcher using prospects so you don't need to trade someone like Varsho. Then you get the best of a and b options.

Other proposals include strengthening your back end bullpen so much that you rely on Gausman/Berrios and Bassitt for 4-5 innings only with "improved stuff" before sending to lights out parade of bullpen arms (Scherzer, Rodriguez, Little, Dominguez, Helseley, Hoffman)

dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#464323) #
Let me walk this back. I'd prefer this FO trade prospects to acquire a pitcher like Ryan or Cease and add to the RP. If they can't make that happen though then I wouldn't mind seeing them trade someone like Varsho to improve those areas if the alternative means no upgrades.

Of course Varsho brings so much to the team and isn't an asset to discard.
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#464324) #
The dropoff from Varsho to Straw is enormous, far bigger than Cease to any Jays starter.

And the OF alignment in the playoffs will be Lukes/Varsho/Barger vs. RHP, as things stand now. Springer will DH. It's possible that Springer will be in the OF vs. a lefty, but that depends on how Straw's bat looks over the last few weeks and how well Barger handles lefties the rest of the way.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#464325) #
Sorry who do you have playing 3B against a RHP if not Barger???
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#464326) #
Ernie the Great, obviously.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#464327) #
Man that's a terrible idea. Barger needs to be your 3B in the playoffs unless you bring in another 3B via trade. The drop off from Varsho to his replacement in CF is less than Barger to Clement at 3B against a RHP.

I'm fine with Clement playing 3B against RHP absent Santander and Gimenez and Varsho. If he's your starting 3B in an elimination game against elite RHP you're asking for trouble.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#464328) #
“You don’t want to disrupt what’s gotten you here, for sure, and I know that the general sense is like just go get everything that you can, but you have to do things that make sense for you. And I think we have a pretty good idea of how we can make this group better without kind of forcing it.

I think you look more at how (additions) would fit into what we’re doing right now. It’s kind of a tricky one. It’s something that when you’re intros spot, you don’t want to do anything over the top just to say you did something"

Manager John Schneider
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#464329) #
Or you're just asking for the best defense you can muster across the diamond.

I suspect the Jays will be adding a bat if they believe Santander's season can't be salvaged, making this all moot.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#464330) #
We shall see we shall see. I will continue sinking my teeth into erroneous, BS and click bait articles until that happens. Buckle up folks!
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#464331) #
Gregory Soto to Mets
soupman - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#464332) #
Mets gave up more than I’d expect for a middle relief rental. I do like Soto but…this might be a painful deadline for the prospect clutchers.
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#464333) #
Aren't those guys pretty low on their prospect lists?
SK in NJ - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#464334) #
Clement is going to be the starting 3B even if/when Varsho, Gimenez, and Santander are all back in the lineup at the same time. If Santander isn't back then it makes it even more likely. Should Barger be playing 3B as much as possible? Yes, but Schneider is going to twist himself into a pretzel to adjust the lineup to ensure that Clement is starting against a RHP. I've learned it's better to accept that than to get annoyed every time it happens. A few weeks ago the Jays had Lukes bunt over a runner to 2B so that Clement could face Mason Miller in the 9th inning with a runner in scoring position. They either have no idea that Clement has struggled against RHP this season, or they realize it and don't care.

Either way, barring a trade for Suarez or an outfielder who can start in RF, Barger is the RF in 2025, for better or worse. That likely changes next season when Barger can play 3B without interfering with Clement's playing time since Ernie can cover SS in place of Bichette.
pooks137 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#464335) #
Straw should be the one sent down probably but I don't see that as likely.

Straw isn't going anywhere, he's the perfect 13th man and will help the Jays have a very good OF defense to close out games down the stretch. 

It was discussed many times in the offseason and earlier in the spring, that Straw crossed the service time threshold very early in the season when the Jays decided to bring him north from Dunedin. So he can't be demoted anymore without his permission.

The only way now to get him off the 26-man from now until the end of the 2026 season is to trade him or DFA him (and have to pay out his entire salary for this year and next when he opts for his release and FA).

The Jays had their own Rusney Castillo situation this winter where they traded for a player with an 11 million dollar salary obligation that was owed either way, but was in purgatory off the 40-man.

With Varsho's offseason shoulder surgery recovery, the FO opted to put Straw back on the 40-man and attempt to get some value from the 11 million obligation. But it also came at the expense of long-term roster flexibility (unless the GM can stomach releasing an 11 million dollar bench player down the road).

Straw has performed better defensively than anyone could've hoped. He also turned out to be more valuable and delayed more difficult 26-man decisions with Varsho having a second prolonged absence with his hamstring injury.

I would've preferred Straw have been left in AAA for 2 years simply for roster flexibility reasons. But given the team's position and his minor role, rostering him for the 1st 100 games was likely the right decision. I also have a soft spot for Miles, always hoping he can be more than the .600 OPS backup CF anytime he's at the plate.

The next challenge will be to see what the FO is willing to do with Straw after the deadline. Once Varsho returns, pretty much all Straw's future defense value is lost if Daulton is healthy.

Depending on what-if-any position player bats are acquired at the deadline (and if any 26-man roster players like Wagner or Loperfido are shipped out), Straw's 4th or 5th OF spot on the team may be needed for the last two months of the season to make this team the best it can be.

A little bit like the high-salaried Chad Green (and to a lesser degree guys like Erik Swanson & Spencer Turnbull), the next challenge will be to see if Atkins & Rogers are willing to use financial might to pay out salary obligations for the fringe guys on the roster to replace them with better options that fit team needs better and improve them incrementally.

With 100 games down, Straw's 11 million obligation acquired is down by 40% or so. In an ideal scenario, maybe a similar deal to the Kevin Kiermaier/Ryan Yarbrough trade could be made even if Toronto has to send money along to make it work.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#464336) #
Gregory Soto off the list going to Mets
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#464337) #
Sorry about that delayed post.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#464338) #
Pooks, I think you have to be careful assuming Varsho will be back for the rest of the season. Hamstring injuries can linger for a lot of people, and I don’t think this FO would be comfortable with Lukes as the every day CF for the stretch run and playoffs. I think Straw stays, and Jimenez, Loperfido, then Wagner are the players who are at risk of going down.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#464339) #
Agreed. Jimenez and Wagner go down before Loperfido and Straw doesn't go down at all unless Varsho is healthy.
mendocino - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#464340) #
Mark Feinsand@Feinsand

Breaking: The Yankees are acquiring 3B Ryan McMahon from the Rockies, per source. Colorado will receive two prospects in return.
mathesond - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#464341) #
Makes sense, they needed a Rockie to replace DJ LeMahieu.
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#464342) #
Better McMahon than Suarez IMO... McMahhon's numbers on the road are brutal.

I don't think the Mets gave up much of anything for Soto. Maybe Ryan Jennings and Gilberto Batista would be a comp.

greenfrog - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#464343) #
Guess the asking price for Suarez was too high. Plus, the Yankees really needed to shore up their defense.
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#464344) #
The Yankees system is pretty thin after their top 3-4 guys and I heard they don't want to deal them. Not going to get Suarez for that...
Gerry - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#464345) #
Rockies get the Yankees #17 prospect and an unranked prospect. Not much of a return so I assume it was a salary dump.
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#464346) #
I'd say the return for McMahon was essentially Stanifer and Wentworth, although Stanifer might have a little more ceiling than Herring.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#464347) #
This NYY trade is a massive upgrade for them. Not so much if the Jays acquired him.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#464348) #
IMO, this was a salary dump by Colorado. Pointless paying him $32 million the next 2 seasons with them being at least a few years from contention.
vw_fan17 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#464349) #
Cavan Biggio DFAed by the Royals..
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#464350) #
I’m kind of happy to see the Yankees get McMahon. He’s a 216/302/362 career hitter outside of Coors. How long with that be playable for them?

Queue the posts about Yankee magic and cheating :)

I’m just saying, of all the potential guys McMahon is one of the least scary to me. I wonder if it signals that the Yankees will be less aggressive than many anticipated. That would also be great

hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#464351) #
On the subject of Biggio, isn't it time to replace him on the Batter's Box banner?

I recommend Ernie Clement. Or maybe Alejandro Kirk as a fallback option. Or the the other way around. You know what? Forget I even mentioned Ernie.
scottt - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#464352) #
Eventually McMahon will adjust to playing outside Coors. Hopefully, we're talking weeks or months. Yankees stadium is a great place for left bats with zip.
Ryan Day - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#464353) #
Remember when people thought Braydon Fisher wasn't a good enough return for Biggio?
mathesond - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#464354) #
Heck, I'm so old I remember when Varsho was a terrible return for Moreno & Gurriel.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#464356) #
I am happy to redo the banner if someone can put me in touch with the right person and specify who they want in it.
adrianveidt - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#464358) #
dalimon5 would you be interested in upgrading the forum software to something more modern?
pooks137 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#464359) #
Remember when people thought Braydon Fisher wasn't a good enough return for Biggio?

I recall a lot of people were arguing that the Jays were making a mistake effectively cutting Biggio in the '24 first half & that even a diminished Cavan was still a valuable everyday player if you squinted enough.

I've always liked Cavan and his profile. And he still has time left presumably. But Biggio is now 30 and a few MLB teams have agreed with the Jays' assessment.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#464361) #
I don't have the experience or bandwidth to support that. No programming experience unfortunately. I have access to a graphic designer who can put together any design based on any parameters. Example, "update existing photo but change players to this," or "make new banner with "Batter's Box" in the middle in x colour and add this or that."

He's a commercial designer.
uglyone - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#464362) #
Jays about to slide up into 1st overall MLB.
Joe - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#464363) #
Finally got around to using the photo of Daulton I took in Spring Training of 2024!
Gerry - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#464364) #
Hey hyperbole,

Our man Joe updated the header just for you.
Gerry - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#464365) #
Hypobole, autocorrect got me again.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#464366) #
I never realised I could ask for things and people will do it for me. Even my family doesn't do that.

Thanks, Gerry et al.
scottt - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#464367) #
I have asked for this many times before, so thank you.
greenfrog - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#464368) #
Unstoppable.
92-93 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#464369) #
This is unbelievable to watch.
greenfrog - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#464370) #
If the team can only acquire one elite player this month, I hope they go get a top-notch controllable leverage bullpen arm like Smith, Duran or Jax.

There are some other names on my "in a perfect world" wish list. Joe Ryan. Steven Kwan (his two home runs yesterday suggests to me that he might be getting close to fully healthy again).
mathesond - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#464371) #
This is unbelievable to watch.

I am enjoying the irony that the year I give up cable is the year the Jays are fun watch. Still not gonna shell out for the SN app, following on the radio takes me back.
mathesond - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#464372) #
Radio team just said this start is the 3rd in the past 4 for Berrios where his velocity has been down 'across the board'. Wonder if this is deliberate.
christaylor - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#464373) #
The mlb.tv prices after the break are a decent value if you are into watching non-Jays games and MILB.

Are the Jays blacked out on MLB.tv in Canada? They weren't when I left but that may have changed (it probably has given Rogers monopoly).

christaylor - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#464374) #
Cool. I often thought Biggio was... Emblematic on the Jays sticking with the three sons for too long. He looked good at times but never put it together.

I wonder if he'd have had better success without the pressure of Vlad and Bo.
christaylor - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#464375) #
Didn't that happen last week? ;)
Cracka - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#464376) #
Best record in baseball for the first time since August 2nd, 1992 (they beat Mattingly & the Yankees that day).
metafour - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#464377) #
What pressure?

He had some success that one season when the balls were juiced, but ultimately once pitchers found out that he had no pop and never swung the bat he got exposed hard. He is way too passive at the plate and doesn't make enough contact to be a viable MLB hitter.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#464378) #
I gave up my season's tickets this year. Don't regret it.

Nice update to the banner.
Glevin - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#464379) #
Just amazing. Team just keeps rolling.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#464380) #
Huge test tomorrow. Can they beat AL (and maybe MLB)’s best starter?

I think…maybe! Why not?
Marc Hulet - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#464381) #
I received notice that my Sportsnet+ subscription is going up $75 year over year to an eyewatering $325min September. No thanks. I didn't even pay the $249 during the last renewal - I took a "we want you back 40% cut" the last time they jacked it up and I walked.

Not sure what I'll do but I'm not paying $325. That's just nuts.
johnny was - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#464382) #
As for the banner update, I can't think of anything more likely to disrupt this team's positive mojo than the return of an everyday player with a 30% K rate. I'd have voted for Barger, FWIW.
JohnL - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#464383) #

Nice update to the banner

Perhaps even someday, “The following comments are owned by whomever posted them” could be corrected ;-)

Joe - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#464384) #
For the banner, I'm afraid I'm limited to the photos I took in Florida, and my Barger photos just aren't as good.

Plus, Varsho's currently my scampering favourite — though I delight in Barger's breakout any chance I get.

Cracka - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#464385) #
Astros getting crushed tonight by the Athletics - Nick Kurtz had one of the greatest games in MLB history: 6-6, 4 HR, 8 RBI, 19 TB... and he's just 22 years old.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#464386) #
Was about to post this.He looked great in the last series before the AS break. Drafting a 1st baseman with a top 5 pick rarely works out, but it sure seems to have for the A's.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#464387) #
Thanks, Joe. You did the work, you choose the player. No complaint from me.
John Northey - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:42 PM EDT (#464388) #
Thanks for the banner update Joe - I'd have picked Kirk (locked up for 5 years) but if you are limited to shots you personally took then that is a limitation.
John Northey - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#464389) #
Wow, Sportsnet at $325? Just checked their site and it still has $199 per year for standard (gets all Jays games) which is what I get. I miss when I could pickyback on my Dad's account (he used to use satellite TV and it included free Sportsnet online access - sadly he passed away this year). Kind of amazed I got away with it for a few years.

At $199 per year it is a bit pricey imo, but I live with it.
hypobole - Friday, July 25 2025 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#464390) #
Blue Jays season in 2 parts:

1st 52 games 25 wins 27 losses -27 run differential
last 52 games 37 wins 15 losses +70 run differential
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:15 AM EDT (#464391) #
Just for those interested, I pay for Bell's "Good" package which costs me $80/month and gives me a Bell box with PVR and a bunch of channels. I download the SN app on my phone and on my streaming devices (Google TV, Apple TV 4K) and I log in using the "log in with TV provider," and I get full access to the Sportsnet app for free. Picture quality of all Kays games is very good and in UHD.
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:18 AM EDT (#464392) #
Jays games*
Michael - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:52 AM EDT (#464394) #
It is fantastic to be in 1st in late July. I will not be upset if we add no one at the deadline, the team doesn't need anything (absent new health problems). If they can add a true ace or some bullpen help without impacting current team great - if not, standing pat isn't so bad. The Jays also lead the majors in BA (by 4 points) and OBP (by 1 point) right now; 6th in OPS (by 43 points) and 9th in SLG (by 44 points). They are still a little below average in HR and barely above average on BB so it is the league leading hits and the fewest K of any team that are really carrying the offense so much. The Jays pitching staff is a little bit the complement of this with the 4th most K of any team, but also 4th in HR allowed for marginally above average in WHIP but marginally below average in ERA.

As for Biggio, I always liked him as an overachiever for fringe skills, and thought he'd benefit from roboumps as at least when he first came up he had an elite eye but suffered from a fair number of close balls ending up miss called as strikes.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:46 AM EDT (#464396) #
Atkins will definitely add at the deadline, for multiple reasons. First, to show the team he believes in them. The 2014 and 2015 Jays teams showed the psychological effects moves, or lack of moves, can make.

Second. In 2022, Seattle picked up Castillo, the Padres Soto and Hader. Atkins' pickups were White, Merrifield, Bass and Pop. FG noted while the other teams were shopping high-end, Jays bought Wayfair.

I don't see that this year. Upgrading the bullpen is needed and most doable, and I believe Atkins is shopping the Hader section rather than the Bass/Pop section. The cost will be much higher, but this team has shown they are worth it.

Starting pitching is the wild card. We have no way of knowing what the team thinks of Scherzer's ability to hold up and contribute. If the FO believes, the Jays may stand pat there. If not, we may see a shiny new starter as well.


greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#464397) #
I agree that Atkins/Shapiro will add two or three players before the deadline, for the reasons mentioned.

Also, the pressure on the Blue Jays to win in the postseason has been mounting year over year. Thanks to the team’s outstanding performance in 2025, now is the time to make an impact move or two. And the improved farm system has put the front office in a position to do this.

I expect the front office to make at least one significant move for a player like Duran/Jax, Ryan, Suarez, or Kwan.
scottt - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#464399) #
Schneider said that not only does he discusses possible adds with Atkins every day, but the veteran players are consulted also. They don't want to disrupt the clubhouse with a "bad" guy.

With Varsho, Gimenez and possibly Santander coming back, the needs are pitching, pitching and maybe pitching.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#464400) #
Pitching may be the priority, but if you have the opportunity to add a veteran like Kwan or Suarez, you have to seriously consider taking it. Those are the kinds of veteran position players who could really help in the postseason when the pressure is dialled up to 11.
pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#464401) #
As for Biggio, I always liked him as an overachiever for fringe skills, and thought he'd benefit from roboumps as at least when he first came up he had an elite eye but suffered from a fair number of close balls ending up miss called as strikes.

Another issue with Biggio's decline & profile as TTO hitter is that his power and ISO have disappeared, leaving him as a walk-heavy utility guy with no pop, no contact skills and lots of Ks.

I recall one Spring Training the Jays had Biggio playing a lot of 3B. I seem to recall him taking multiple scorching line drives off his bare non-glove hand defensively in fairly quick succession during camp and in early season play.

It does make one wonder if there was some undisclosed injury that sapped all his power. Although, one would think a carpal bone contusion or a hamate fracture would've been documented officially and led to time off on the IL somewhere.

His ISO decline also doesn't fit well with my memory. He still had a normal-for-him ISO in the .130s in 2023. It wasn't until the first half of '24 that it dipped down 30 points to closer to .105 and below where it has remained.

dalimon5 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#464402) #
Here's a silly hypothetical. Who "hangs up first?"

Guardians trade:
Jose Ramirez
Caden Smith
Steven Kwan

Blue Jays trade:
Addison Barger
Arjun Nimalla
Trey Yesavage
Khal Stephen
Joey Loperfido
Will Wagner
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#464403) #
MLBTR:

Aaron Judge Undergoing Testing For “Elbow Issue”

Aaron Judge isn’t in the Yankees starting lineup for the first time this season, as manager Aaron Boone told reporters (including YES Network’s Jack Curry and the New York Post’s Joel Sherman) that the superstar is undergoing testing on what Boone described as an “elbow issue.” Judge had some difficulty making throws from right field in yesterday’s 12-5 loss to the Phillies, so the scans were ordered to examine what exactly is wrong with the reigning AL MVP’s right arm.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#464404) #
The Sportsnet broadcast showed Judge wincing in RF at one point during the recent Toronto series. Guessing that was the elbow issue MLBTR just mentioned.
John Northey - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#464406) #
It'll be interesting to see what deal(s) the Jays make. Tons of AAA OF'ers who are close to aging out, a few hot prospects in the lower minors, a few pitchers who might be tempting to a young team. It'll be interesting to see what happens. The dream is Pittsburgh's GM gets really really stupid and deals Skenes - I'd give up anything in the system they want for him, ideally without hurting the ML team this year. More likely is Bednar from Pittsburgh for a few decent, but not 'wow' prospects. Pittsburgh has a 78 OPS+ so they'd take any offense they could get. Horwitz has been terrible for them - 1B with an 88 OPS+. Ugh.
scottt - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#464407) #
Regardless of returns, the only way they trade Skenes is if they think he needs TJ before the next trade deadline.
JB21 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#464408) #
"The dream is Pittsburgh's GM gets really really stupid and deals Skenes"

That's quite the dream!
JB21 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#464409) #
Even then, not happening
pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#464410) #
Horwitz has been terrible for them - 1B with an 88 OPS+. Ugh.

Horwitz has kind of had a lost season to injury.

Apparently he had a chronic wrist issue even during his good 2024 run with Toronto. The Guardians and the Pirates knew about the issue upon trading for him.

Horwitz' offseason didn't go well, as an apparent attempt to rehab the wrist injury failed, leading to a Feb 2025 wrist surgery close to the start of ST.

So Spencer missed ST. He missed the first 7 weeks of the season and was reactivated May 17th.

His monthly splits show an awful two weeks in May (OPS+ 69) a decent June (8 doubles, 1 HR, OBP .349, OPS+ 117) but then another slump in July (3 XBHs, OPS+ 71).

Not surprisingly after a wrist issue, Horwitz' power is down - .112 ISO, only 1 HR a month for a total of 3 over 210 PAs.

scottt - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#464411) #
Ramirez has full no trade protection.

There will be enough changes to the lineup with Varsho, Gimenez and possibly Santander without trying to field a completely different team.
SK in NJ - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#464412) #
Since May 1, the Jays are 1st in MLB in runs, 1st in team wRC+, 1st in position player WAR, and 1st in K%. They are 13th in HR over that span, so that's the one area they could improve on, but they've been without Santander and Varsho for a lot of this run, which explains some of that. My hunch is that they'll stand pat offensively. Whether that's the right move remains to be seen, but I don't see them messing with the position player chemistry unless they get a clear upgrade in a market where that may not exist.

The easiest position to add impact is the bullpen. I think the Jays match up well with Pittsburgh for Bednar. The near ready depth, especially in the outfield (Roden, Loperfido, Clase, etc), will probably interest the Pirates more than other teams who may prefer prospects further away with higher upside. Not sure about Clase and Duran. That's going to cost a lot, and I've never been a believer in trading top prospects for relievers. They are just too volatile. If the Jays make a big splash where they trade top prospects then I think it's for a starter, but one has to be available that is worthy of that.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#464415) #
I suspect it'll be someone like Willi Castro, a switch-hitter who can play multiple positions competently... and two relievers. I'd also get catcher Fortes from Miami for AAA insurance - he has options, plays good D, and MLB experience.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#464416) #
Relievers are often volatile but some are consistently very good. Duran and Jax have a solid track record year over year. Duran is 27 and Jax is 30, so neither is especially old.

I agree that, other things being equal, trading for an elite SP or position player is usually preferable to trading for an elite RP. For example, Andrew Miller was terrific from around ages 27-32 but then he declined fairly quickly.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#464417) #
What happened to Bednar in 2024? He was not good that year.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#464418) #
Someone mentioned Sonny Gray as a potential trade target. He could be a good pickup for Toronto. He’s under contract for 2026 as well.
vw_fan17 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#464419) #
First, props to Vlad on 2 clutch hits early on when they were trying to get a lead. I've been very critical of the contract / expected performance, so I'll balance it out a bit here.

It will be interesting to see what happens when people return from injury. To me, this team is one of the highest (for lack of a better term) comraderie-driven Jays teams I can remember. I'm too young (and wrong continent) to remember the Pirates "we are family" or much about Billy Ball (and whether it was considered a positive or not in the end), but this team feels like not just a collection of good players. No Dave Stieb death stares, just players tripping over each other to pick up a fellow teammate who had a bad AB or a dropped ball (occasionally), and clapping for each other on one great play after another. And daring to try to make those difficult catches, because they won't get ostracized if they miss.

There is such a thing as subtraction by addition. I remember when (ok, it's the Leafs, so all bets are off, but..) the Leafs in 2002 were somehow making it work without Sundin (McAuley centering Roberts and Mogilny). Only for the team to rush Sundin, who had been injured for a good stretch, back in the middle of a series and totally kill the chemistry.

Now imagine they trade for Suarez. Then Varsho and Giminez and Santander (unlikely, but for the sake of argument) come back, and suddenly there are few ABs for Lukes, Loperfido, Clement, Wagner and Schneider. That's changing half of the "best" team we've had in 30 years. On paper, it's a better lineup, say Giminez platooning with Clement, Straw as a late inning replacement for Springer/Santander in the OF. But will it feel the same?

I agree with many here - pitching is what we should target - less disruptive to the overall lineup. Even if we overpay. 

And don't rush every injured player back - give them lots of time to get into game shape and ready to smoothly slide in and only one at a time - don't put 3 players into the lineup who have been out for months on the same day. I like that Varsho is playing several rehab games before rejoining the team - and he doesn't have to start 5 games in a row right off the bat. Bring Straw in after the 6th/7th (if leading / blowout) to reduce wear and tear on a newly-healed shoulder and give him a day off here and there. No sense pushing him to get injured again in 2 weeks.
92-93 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#464420) #
Lefties have a .447 OPS against Skubal this year. All-righty lineup today with Kirk at DH, or will Schneider throw an LHB to the wolf? If so, I'd go with Loperfido. Or let Barger bat righty. I just want to see a competitive game from the squad.

The Pirates are getting very little from their OF corners this year, so maybe they would be interested in some of the Jays' excess. Bryan Reynolds was a Box darling and still had a 119 OPS+, 3.6WAR last year, but he's been terrible this year.
SK in NJ - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#464421) #
I guess what the Jays do on the position player side, if anything, depends on Santander and Gimenez's health. If those two and Varsho are back soon, then the roster is essentially set. If it's just Santander that is out for a while, then maybe they add a RHB off the bench, but nothing crazy. If it's Santander and Gimenez both missing significant time for the rest of the season, then that changes things entirely. Gimenez in particular is a very important piece here.
pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#464422) #
The Jays have a very full 40-man roster at the moment unless they are willing to pay guys like Chad Green or Miles Straw to go away. Or cutting Tommy Nance which won't be a big issue as he's a placeholder anyhow.

This makes it harder to make marginal trade deadline upgrades unless you send marginal 40-man roster players the other way to stem losses.

This alone means that it makes more sense to buy expensive rentals or players with term at the deadline because the cost to open 40-man spots is relatively high.
92-93 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#464423) #
"Significant time" with 58 games left can be hard to quantify, but Gimenez started running the other day and it supposedly went "better than expected".

The amazing thing about this team is that it's all happening despite the front office seemingly completely whiffing on the offseason (so far). Lauer has been better than Gimenez, Santander, Hoffman, and Scherzer combined!

The YES broadcast is talking about Tommy John surgery for Judge, and whether it's worth it for the Yankees to have him DH for the rest of the season before having it.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#464424) #
Maybe this is obvious, but the key for Gausman seems to be consistently throwing strikes. Looking at his 2025 game logs, his very best starts seem to be when he walks zero, one or two batters.
Dr B - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#464425) #
I have been (mildly) surprised that Chad Green is still on the roster given his performance. In 2024 he posted the worst SO rates of his career and 2025 has been even worse. But the standout for 2025 has been his truly taterific 2.3 HR/9. That's 12 HR and counting in 42 innings. He's only given up 13BB in that time.

The salary is sunk cost. Yet, only as far back as 2023 he was a very good pitcher, and he has been ab excellent one for a very long time. I guess they hope he can still recover some of the old magic but time must surely running out.
lexomatic - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#464426) #
His ISO decline also doesn't fit well with my memory. He still had a normal-for-him ISO in the .130s in 2023. It wasn't until the first half of '24 that it dipped down 30 points to closer to .105 and below where it has remained.


Pooks, this feels like the kinda situation where maybe there was A ( or several) mild or asymptomatic covid infections, and the strength just wasnt there anymore.
Other thought, tiny mechanical change from self doubt messing everything up, but not being able to undo it.
metafour - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#464427) #
I don't think that they have any hope at all about Green. Take a look at their usage (or non-usage) of him recently. He is just holding a roster spot down until they trade for a reliever(s). I expect that he is gone as soon as that happens.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#464428) #
Roden up, Wagner to the Restricted List.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#464429) #
Loperfido started against a tough lefty (Rodon?) not long ago.The reason given was something like his bat path suited the starters pitches. Can't remember exactly how they put it on the broadcast, but I can't recall ever hearing a bat path rationale before.
SK in NJ - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#464430) #
Green is definitely getting DFA when they add relievers at the deadline, unless they can find a way to trade him (doubtful). They were forced to use him in the Yankees series when the bullpen was decimated, but otherwise they've been waiting for the least leverage situations possible to use him. Even in Game 1 of the Tigers series with the Jays having a big lead in the 9th they were warming up Nance after Green gave up a few runs. There's zero faith there. I'd be shocked (and very disappointed) if Green is still on the team a week from now.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#464431) #
Wagner's attending his father's induction into the HOF.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#464432) #
Green is beloved on the team. Not a great reason to keep someone but it's been made very clear that the club values player relationships and a strong clubhouse.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#464434) #
Phillies up 4-1 on the Yankees. Stroman pulled after 3.2 IP charged with all 4 runs, pushing his ERA over 6. Romano yesterday gave up 2 runs in 1 inning of work and his ERA sits at 6.99.

Challenge trade idea: Green for Romano :(
Magpie - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#464435) #
Green had actually been pitching much better heading into the break. He'd given up a single run in 11 appearances in the last month heading into it.

He's still got plenty of giddyup on his fastball, but I suspect he's trying a little too hard to get there. Every pitcher knows that movement and location will always trump velocity, but velocity is the thing that's easily measured. They can never help chasing an extra 2 or 3 mph on the fastball, and it always straightens out when they do.
metafour - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#464438) #
Green may have only given up a single run over those 11 outings, but the underlying metrics were still terrible. He had just 7 strikeouts to 5 walks in 10.2 innings pitched, with the main difference being that he only gave up 1 HR during that stretch, but he was still getting hit hard (ie: there was luck involved).

Take a look at his Statcast page this season, it is revolting:

5th percentile in Expected ERA
4th percentile in Average Exit Velocity (ie: he is getting hammered)
1st percentile in Barrell % (LMFAO)
2nd percentile in Hard-Hit % (LMFAO)
11th percentile in Groundball %

He does literally nothing well. He is a complete flyball pitcher who gets barreled with ease, and the ball explodes off the bat against him. This is the magic recipe to how you produce a 2.57 HR/9 rate (or 18.5% HR/FB rate). The worst part is that he doesn't even strike guys out, so its not like he can minimize hard contact by keeping the ball out of play - he is in fact a pitch-to-contact guy.

So no, his 11-outing streak really wasn't indicative of anything other than the fact that the ball managed to stay in the park better than expected over that stretch.
scottt - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#464440) #
Judgeless Yankees look pretty bad.
John Northey - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#464441) #
The pen will be a challenge whenever new guys come in.
  • Locks: Hoffman-Rodriguez-Little
  • Solid: Fisher-Fluharty-Nance
  • Bubble: Bruihl-Green
  • Injured: Garcia-Sandlin-Schultz-Burr (Burr not coming back in 2025)
  • AAA: Estrada, Pina, Lucas
So if you add 2 more relievers my guess is Bruihl goes to AAA, and Green gets made part of a trade with Jays paying his salary (sent to NL?).

Right now there are dozens of decent relievers out there, but to be an upgrade we need proven setup/closer types. David Bednar is one of my favorite targets (Pittsburgh) - free agent post 2026, been damn good 4 of the past 5 years, K's a ton (12.3/9 this year), 15 saves, 0 blown this year. Yeah, he'd be sweet to mix/match with Hoffman for the 9th.
pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#464442) #
Roden up, Wagner to the Restricted List.

Very interesting news. Dan Shulman specifically talked about how the Jays were going to have to play a man short for the next two games because there was no provision in the CBA for a player to miss a few games for ceremonial purposes, but there are specific clauses for things like paternity leave.

Dan & Joe were specifically talking about the irony that there was no MLB/MLBPA CBA provision to excuse a player in-season to attend a MLB-sponsored event!.

Green is beloved on the team.

First I hear of this but I trust Marc's intel.

It seems forever ago, but beyond the salary, the Jays FO & coaching staff may remember that Green was really their only trusted reliever for the second half of '24 after all the rentals were traded away. And tons of warm bodies off the waiver wire were being plugged in just to keep the bullpen going.

I don't really remember it, but it looks like Green got hurt in mid-April '24 and missed about 6 weeks.

He returned on May 28 and was fire until he seemed to be running out of steam in Aug/Sept.

June '24 - 10 IP, 1 HR, 9.9K/9, OPS against .542

July '24 - 13.2 IP, 2 HRs, 8.6K/9, OPS against .542

Aug '24 - 11.1 IP, 1 HR, 6.4K/9, OPS against .520, 8 SVs

Sept/Oct '24 - 8.2 IP, 14 Hs, 2 HRs, 7.3K/9, OPS against 1.015

So Green was probably John Schneider's most trusted reliever from May 28th to about Sept 1st last year, before he tired and imploded.

But there were already some worrying signs, as his K/9 plummeted each month even when he was being dominant and hasn't recovered.

pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#464443) #

Another interesting tidbit looking at Green's game logs from 2024 is that the awful Jays of last year were 38-15 in games Green appeared. This includes 6 losses on Green, 17 saves, 3 blown saves and 7 holds.

This is probably more of a reflection on usage than performance, but still an interesting stat in a lost year way below .500.

A lot of this must reflect Green being setup man and de facto closer once Romano went down and Garcia first got hurt then was dealt to Seattle (and got hurt again).

For comparison, the Jays are 26-17 this year in '25 when Green appears, with only two losses personally hung on Green.

So '25 is not as unusual as '24 given the Jays 1st in the MLB record. But not necessarily all that dissimilar from their '24 results with Green, considering his demotion to low leverage.

The '25 W-L results suggests that Green is pitching more in low leverage wins than low leverage losses. Though I suppose it helps that they haven't lost much at all in the last 66 games or so.

pooks137 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#464444) #
Reading into it a little more, the Wagner to the Restricted List move is a double-edged sword.

Good:
- Jays don't have to play a man short and have a full bench
- Roden gets the weekend in the majors (but not likely a start tonight against Skubal).

Bad:
- sounds like Wagner forfeits two days pay to go see his dad at Cooperstown

One would hope that the FO & Rogers would do the right thing and make a bubble rookie whole.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#464445) #
Yankees lost, Blue Jays up by 6 games in the AL East.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#464446) #
Last 30 days, best bullpen ERA is Miami's 2.09. Jays are 9th at 3.16.

29th place O's at 5.75. And the worst pen with a 6.80 ERA - the Yankees.
uglyone - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#464447) #
"The amazing thing about this team is that it's all happening despite the front office seemingly completely whiffing on the offseason (so far)."

Pains me to say it but the biggest move of the year was that dink Rogers Jr. stepping in and forcing that vladdy deal to happen. Anyone looking for a cause of chemistry/camaraderie this year can thank that move imo.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#464448) #
Based on comments from several Blue Jays players, the addition of Popkins and the rest of the hitting coaching staff has made a big difference to this team.

Also the team’s less-heralded additions like Lauer, Little, Fluharty and Straw have helped a lot.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#464449) #
The Vladdy contract was a positive signal to the players and fanbase that ownership is investing heavily in the team. The other off-season moves (such as Santander and Scherzer) were also positive indications that the front office and ownership were trying hard to win.

Early in the season Bassitt praised the front office’s moves, saying that they showed the FO listened to what the players said the team needed.
Joe - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#464450) #
Just for y'all, here are some ridiculous photos of Barger that I took last year:

John Northey - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#464451) #
Looks like Barger needs bigger pants or risk losing circulation.
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#464452) #
Davis Schneider going for a gold glove. Great catch!
scottt - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#464453) #
Nance has a 4.60 ERA in Buffalo.
He's not a high leverage arm.
Gerry - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#464454) #
If you were to pick a Blue Jay who would get picked off on the bases, Vlad would be the number one choice.
earlweaverfan - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#464455) #
What happened to Kirk?
electric carrot - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#464456) #
"If you were to pick a Blue Jay who would get picked off on the bases, Vlad would be the number one choice."

2024 Vladdy, yes
2025 Vladdy, not so much.
Glevin - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#464457) #
Uh oh with Kirk. Maybe the single player Jays can least afford to lose.
Gerry - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#464458) #
Kirk - Foul ball right off the mask, hard hit.
92-93 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#464459) #
Kirky took a foul ball square in the middle of the mask that jerked his neck back. Siddall said right away it was a cause for concern, that those are the worst ones. The Jays might have a new need at the deadline.

That was a tough one for Vladdy with the safety squeeze on, but he still needs to be smarter. Not a big fan of the call by Schneider with a 2-1 count, Heineman’s swing looked fine on the first pitch.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#464460) #
I've said a couple times that the Jays should grab Fortes in Miami - they have two other young, promising catchers in the majors and he's a luxury they can afford to part with. Good defender (not great throwing) and has options.

Bethancourt and Sanchez are both in the lineup tonight so we should see who comes out, unless it's Clarke, whose on the bench.
electric carrot - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#464462) #
Ok Bo you know what to do.
Glevin - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#464463) #
Incredible AB by Bo.
92-93 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#464464) #
What on earth was Springer doing there. Sigh. Before the game Schneider said they need to run the bases well to have a chance against Skubal.

Incredible AB by Bichette against the best. At least they’re showing they can beat him.
Glevin - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#464465) #
Springer had foot in base I think I'm case he had to dive and catch it but that's not a likely scenario and he made it so he wouldn't score on hit or sac fly so really, he should have been just close enough so that he wasn't going to get doubled off and then he would have scored easily.
electric carrot - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#464467) #
who hits for Jimenez, Roden or Loperfido?
electric carrot - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#464468) #
nevermind. Gameday was late showing that the review went against the jays and thus no baserunner.
Glevin - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#464470) #
This team... No words. How can you not love these guys?
Magpie - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#464471) #
Tommy Nance goes for his first career save. Can he do it?
greenfrog - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#464472) #
The score is obviously great, but how is Kirk doing? I’m not watching but Sportsnet said he is on the bench, so maybe it’s not a bad injury? If he misses a week or two, that’s fine. If he’s out for the season, that would be devastating.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#464473) #
Took a foul tip to the mask. Probably precautionary.
SK in NJ - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#464474) #
Wow what a fun season this has turned out to be. Incredible.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#464476) #
This is becoming almost unbelievable 
Magpie - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#464477) #
I suspect Madison was right - Springer got decoyed by Skubal pointing to second base. He just doesn't want to admit it!
hypobole - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#464478) #
Mentioned Atkins buying Wayfair at the 2022 deadline. Royals are shopping at Dollarama in their attempt to "go for it." Just added Grichuk after trading for Adam Frazier last week.
ISLAND BOY - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#464479) #
On this year's Jays team there seems to be a new hero every night. In this game it was Kevin Gausman and Bo Bichette. Gausman was outstanding with 10 strikeouts in 7 shutout innings. Bichette drove in the games first two runs and had probably the most incredible at bat of the season with a 13 pitch duel with Strubal before earning a walk.

Tarik Strubal is going to make mega bucks on his new contract next season.
Glevin - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#464480) #
Jays have 57 games left. If they went, 29-28, they'd finish with 92 wins. To get to 100 wins, they need to go 37-20. To equal last year's record, they'd have to go 11-46.
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#464482) #
Paul Skenes is more impressive than Skubal to me after watching Skubal tonight. If I was an owner and could sign Tarik at 30 or Skenes at 28 it would be Skenes. If I had to pick one now it would be Skenes.
92-93 - Saturday, July 26 2025 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#464483) #
And if the Jays go 29-28 the Yankees would have to go 37-21 (with Judge on the IL for at least 10 of them) to win the division. The Red Sox, who are probably the greater threat right now, would have to go 37-19.

.500ish ball the rest of the way might win the division.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:23 AM EDT (#464484) #
The one thing that could possibly derail the Jays after the deadline are injuries. Obviously losing Vlad, Bo, George, Kirk or Addison would be a huge blow. But there is a bit of depth. The bullpen should be augmented at the deadline, so there will probably be some depth there.

Starting pitching is worrisome though, with no one in AAA showing that they can step up. The one big positive is the group of Gausman, Berrios and Bassitt. Between the 3, they have over 10 seasons as Jays and I don't think any of them have hit the IL once. That's amazing nowadays. Lauer has been healthy since he had IL stints in 2022 and 2023 AFAIK. Scherzer is the obvious concern. So picking up a starter or at least a decent swing man would be prudent.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:45 AM EDT (#464485) #
The Blue Jays moves in the coming days should be really interesting to follow. How big do they want to go?

The team suddenly seems to have a lot of good relievers, even with Yimi down: Hoffman, Yariel, Little, Fisher, Fluharty, Nance, Bruihl

I expect that they’ll add one more high-leverage arm, maybe Bednar, Smith, Duran or Jax (Bednar does seem to be a good fit, as John N mentioned), or someone one tier down, like Detmers.

I think they’ll acquire a SP, either someone good (Ryan, Keller, Cabrera, Alcantara, Kelly, Gallen, Gray) or more of a depth arm (Heaney type). Assuming Ryan isn’t going to happen, I like Keller and Gray as good-but-affordable (in terms of acquisition cost) options who could start in the postseason and also join the rotation next year.

A position player seems less likely given how well the current group is playing, but they could consider Kwan (if he’s available) or Ramirez (if he’s available) or Suarez, if they want to go this route.

The 1% chance trade — Skenes — almost certainly will not happen, but it’s probably worth making the inquiry nonetheless.
Michael - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:50 AM EDT (#464486) #
That was a pretty incredible win. Worth remembering the Tigers are a very good team, and that was one of the few true aces we were facing, in their own park no less.

Springer likely would have been safe if he slid on the bases-loaded-base-hit-to-fielders-choice, couldn't tell from the highlight coverage if the next batter to come up was giving Springer the slide signal or not, so it might not have been strictly Springer's fault.

Hope Kirk is ok, health is definitely the main possible challenge to the team.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:47 AM EDT (#464487) #
Michael, Barger was the next batter and he just stood there admiring the play. I'm sure that caused Springer to assume the throw wasn't coming home. Barger then struck out to end the inning leaving the bases loaded. I'm wondering if Barger took that out to the field because the first ball hit to him clanked off his glove for an error.

Fortunate that learning experience came in eventual win.

hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:07 AM EDT (#464488) #
The win Saturday took the Jays to 26-25 on the road, the 1st time this season they've had a winning record away from the RC.

Mentioned on the broadcast that Fluharty altered his delivery slightly down in Buffalo to hide the ball better. Felt he had been tipping his pitches.
John Northey - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:19 AM EDT (#464489) #
Insane - I remembercoming out of the break thinking 'if they can get through these next 10 vs SF/NYY/Detroit in first or close then they have a real shot'. Instead they have gone 8-1 with 1 game to go so far and moved from 2 up to 6 1/2 up on the Yankees, and now Judge is on the IL which will push the Yankees further down.

FYI: in 2015 they NEVER had a 6 1/2 game lead, in 1993 they peaked at 8 games up on September 30th and weren't up by 6 or more until September 24th, in 1992 they never had a lead of more than 5 games, in 1991 they reached a peak of 8 games up on July 13 & 15th, finishing the season up 7. 1989 they never had a lead of more than 3 games, 1987 3 1/2 was the max lead, 1985 peak lead was 9 1/2 August 2,3,4. Others I checked were 2016 (max 2), 2021-2023 (max 1.0 game lead), 1984 (never lead), 1983 (max 3), 1999 (max 2), 2000 (max 3). Seriously doubt any other years saw leads of 5+.

So this is very rare air indeed. Reached only in 1993, 1991, and 1985. Can they keep it up? Who knows, but I intend to enjoy the ride.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:36 AM EDT (#464490) #
OK, saw the Springer out from another angle and Barger did give a little hands wiggle. Similar situation in the eighth on Bo's single and Heineman was emphatic with the slide call.
scottt - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 05:12 AM EDT (#464491) #
It was a weird one. Springer seems to leave third late and doesn't run at full speed.

The Jays are only 3 and a half ahead of Detroit and having to play a wild card series. They play so well at home, it would be great having the home field advantage.

In the division, Boston and Tampa are catching up to New York and the Rays are visiting on Monday.
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 06:53 AM EDT (#464492) #
Hazel Mae asked him about it during an interview after the game and he admitted he should have slid and that the play was on him.
99BlueJaysWay - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 07:59 AM EDT (#464493) #
I mean, it was a force play. The bases were loaded and Heinemann technically hit a single (he wasn’t credited with one because George made an out). The fastest way to get there is to run straight through.

The slide wasn’t the problem, it was slowing down halfway and looking back.
Michael - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#464494) #
While it was a force the catcher wasn't set up on the plate and thus the question was tag or not. On the running I think he thought the CF was going to be off balanced or diving and either catch it on the fly (for him to tag) or drop it and miss it (for him to score easy) so when the CF played it on the short hop for the momentum throw to home he was late having been more or less tagging up from 3rd. Or at least that's what it looked to me.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 09:06 AM EDT (#464495) #
I'm a dinosaur. Still have cable, so I get Jays in 30. I've re-watched it about 5 times now. The best angle to see exactly what Barger did was the centre field angle. It wasn't much. And yes George had to wait at 3rd in case the ball was caught.

The out was ultimately on George for assuming the throw wasn't coming to the plate and slowing down to a trot momentarily. But Barger gave him very weak help.
electric carrot - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#464496) #
I think George may have been a bit slow on the uptake on the likeliness of the ball being caught. Vladdy who was more vulnerable to being picked off than George was almost at third when George started breaking for home. Not sure if Vladdy was being rash or that he definitely had a better read on the play than Springer but in either case Springer read it less adeptly.
Marc Hulet - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#464497) #
At the end of the day, you should never assume and he should have slid, although Barger also should have been far more aggressive with his actions.

It's similar to the Ronald Acuna throw to 3B to nail the Yankees runner.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#464498) #
So I'm cheering for the Rangers, Red Sox and Mariners the next few days. Wins there will probably convince the fringe teams, maybe with the exception of the Royals, to give up and sell.

Tampa and Cleveland are the questions. A month ago Tampa swept the Royals and sat 11 games over .500. They have played 8 series since and lost 7, going 7-17. A lot of teams only 2.5 games out might still buy, but Tampa have traditionally been future oriented and will probably sell barring anything unforeseen. New ownership may change the equation, though.

Cleveland, 3 back of the WC are going in the opposite direction. Lost 10 in a row, but gone 12-4 since. But they have traditionally sold or stood pat in these situations.

In the NL, will Cincy buy and how much if they do? Can't see them selling. SF with Posey in charge won't give up IMO. How much they buy is the question. The Cards I don't see as buyers. Maybe that will change if they win their next 2. A loss to the Padres today and Marlins tomorrow may even convince the to sell.

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#464499) #
Twins, Pirates, Padres and Guardians are the four most interesting teams to watch as potential sellers.

Duran, Ryan, Cease, Kwan, Clase, Keller and Bednar are some big names with lesser chances of moving. I'm hoping the Jays can get any of these guys.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#464500) #
Joey Loperfido looks very different from last year. Jays have tweaked his swing, but the big change seems to be his swing decisions. He really seems to have bought into Popkins contact oriented approach.

His SwStr% has dropped from 17.1 to 9.2. Statcast has his O-Swing% down from 33.7% to 27.7%, and O-Zone contact way up from 38.9% to 55.6%.

He has had BABIP luck. .416 wOBA vs .347 xwOBA. But even that latter number would put him ahead of Kirk and Bo. The big questions are twofold. How much does the Jays FO buy into these tiny sample size changes? And are there any teams that buy into it more than our FO?

85bluejay - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#464501) #
The Jays are probably hoping that Cleveland (unlikely) and St. Louis become sellers as 2 of the Jays favorite trading partners.

How Max Scherzer and his thumb perform today along with how Alex Manoah's simulated game went on Saturday will probably inform the Jays on the urgency of adding a starter.

Will be interesting to see which of the outfielders the Jays part with - Loperfido has performed encouragingly since his return - Clase is toolsy but in last option year and spotty defence makesc him a strong candidate to be dealt - With Varsho about to return wonder if the jays will put Lukes in play - had solid season, cheap and years of control and can play all 3 OF spots but limited upside - I'd be inclined to sell high.

Many want the Jays to go all in but Atkins seem best doing smaller moves that pay off and the team will want to remain competitive in the coming years with Vladdy signed longterm.

I least want to give up quality starting prospects with the Jays having expiring starter contracts and the exorbitant cost of Free Agent starters.

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#464502) #
Who are the quality starting prospects that can fill in for expiring contract starters? Trey Yesavage? That's one arm for Bassitt. I don't think he's going to pitch 150+ innings in his first year. Who else are you talking about?
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#464503) #
The Jays have been the best team in baseball for a while now. Are we sure that we want there to be more sellers?
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#464504) #
Not sure if this was posted here before or in an older thread but apparently Jeff Passan reported that the Twinkies want two top 100 prospects for Duran. Would you trade Nimalla and Yesavage for him? That seems an incredibly steep price.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#464505) #
Since May 28, the club has gone 37-14. The offence has been far and away the best in the major leagues thanks to a .350 OBP despite having only league average power. The defence also far and away the best in the major leagues, and the pitching league average.

No one player has led the way, with all performances consistent with their career. Eric Lauer has thrived with the excellent defence and pitched better than ever.

The platooning and the positional flexibility that the organization has long prized have been used to great advantage.

The areas of greatest need are:
-a serviceable third catcher
-a starter in case of injury
-another reliever

Bednar would be the likeliest target.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#464506) #
I would not do that trade, especially after Yesavage’s four perfect innings in his last start. Incidentally, Keith Law ranked Nimmala around #36 (something like that) and Yesavage just outside his top 60 in his recent top 60 prospects list.

I think a BA writer said Rojas and Stephen are now close to top 100 prospects. That might be a more reasonable prospect package for Duran (assuming Stephen doesn’t have a significant injury).
Hodgie - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#464507) #
Can’t trade Yesavage and Nimmala for Duran when they are obviously going to headline the package for Skubal..
scottt - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#464508) #
I wouldn't trade a first round pick--outside of an obvious bad pick like Warmoth--for a reliever. Every year you see elite relievers struggle or fall apart due to injuries. The Jays already have Rodriguez, Little, Hoffman...

Morton yould be an interesting pick. He's been decent out of the pen, can provide starting depth and wouldn't cost much.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#464509) #
The Blue Jays should figure out their likely postseason strategy and then make trades with a view to executing that strategy. At this point, their chances of winning the division are good.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#464511) #
Have there been any updates on Kirk?
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#464512) #
Are we sure that we want there to be more sellers?

The more sellers, the wider the assortment and the lower the price, especially for rentals. And expiring bullpen rentals are usually best. Swanson was the latest example of how little years of control matter for bullpen arms.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#464513) #
Answering my own question. Kirk was just placed on 7-day IL with a concussion.
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#464514) #
Nice post on top 4 prospects Greenfrog. That sounds about right.

Speaking of Stephen does anyone have an update?
pooks137 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#464515) #
Joey Loperfido looks very different from last year. Jays have tweaked his swing, but the big change seems to be his swing decisions. He really seems to have bought into Popkins contact oriented approach.

Hitting coaches get too much credit when the offense is good & too much criticism when things go wrong.

Nothing personal against Popkins, as I know zero about him other than all the praise he has received ever since the offense kicked into gear in May.

By I in particular would take issue with Popkins getting credit for a Joey Loperfido hot cup of coffee when Loperfido wasn't even with the big club for the first 3 months.

I suppose a devil's advocate argument would be that Popkins' tutelage carried over from ST. But Loperfido wasn't particularly good offensively for his 1st couple of months in AAA this year, a reason why he got passed on the 40-man AAA OF depth chart multiple times by the likes of Alan Roden, Jonatan Clase, Will Robertson, etc even with major injuries to Varsho & Santander.

I'm not really a believer that hitting coaches have any measurable impact on roster performance other than some in-season maintenance & troubleshooting swing tinkering. But even then, major league hitters play too many games and are facing competition that is too good from March until October to do anything other than survival mode.

TL; DR - If I'd assign any credit to anyone other than Loperfido himself for his hot callup, I'd give it to whomever is the AAA hitting coach whom I can't even name. Though I suppose the AAA manager and Popkins would also get a sliver of credit as his supervisor.

92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#464516) #
I’m not a prospect guy (and I certainly don’t care what one did over 4 innings in his last outing) but that doesn’t seem like a high price for 2.5 years of an elite reliever at arb prices. If you want elite talent, you need to pay up. The Cubs didn’t regret trading Gleyber for Aroldis.

It’s reasonable to suggest the Jays should keep their best prospects and just target impending FA relievers though. They just need a couple of arms that will allow Schneider to stay away from using Hoffman 4 times in 5 games and in 4 run leads.

More sellers means lower prices for the teams the Jays will be competing with too. Cost will never be too high for Yimi-esque talent.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#464517) #
I love how some people are always ready to ship out the team’s best prospects at the drop of a hat, but then they also love it when a homegrown prospect like Barger turns into an elite player for the Blue Jays.

Atkins and Shapiro have generally made good decisions as to which players to trade and which ones to hold onto. I have confidence they’ll make good decisions in the next few days.
scottt - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#464518) #
Cubs were 1 and done. It's the Astros that everybody wants to emulate.
Marc Hulet - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#464519) #
I would not pay two top prospects for 60 innings of a high-leverage reliever, especially given the volatility of the role.

Stephen (if he was healthy), Roden, and Stanifer or Watts-Brown would be a fair package.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#464520) #
Yesavage’s recent outing is significant and very positive, in my opinion. It shows that he is quickly adapting to AA and making adjustments to address his recent control issues.
uglyone - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#464521) #
Never been a big Loperfido fan, but that was mostly about his way too high strikeout rate, and while his overall AAA line this year was mediocre, he did manage to reduce his K rate bigtime in AAA this year, which is promising and might be credited to the org / popkins.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#464522) #
Barger wasn’t an elite prospect though, so his (brief) success thus far is kinda proof of the opposite. Three years ago people didn’t want to part with Tiedemann for elite talent, and before that it was Pearson.

The Jays don’t lead (or even compete for) the division too frequently, so they probably shouldn’t hesitate moving a guy that prospect mavens seem to think projects as a #3 SP.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#464523) #
Duran is 150 innings, Marc Hulet, if you include 3 deep playoff runs! Unless you’re predicting injury, it certainly isn’t 60.
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#464524) #
"The Cubs didn’t regret trading Gleyber for Aroldis."

The Rangers certainly regret giving up Cole Ragans for Aroldis.

It's not "trade your best because it's worth it or don't." It's often times the sweet spot of achieving both short term gain without sacrificing the future. There is a way.
Glevin - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#464526) #
"The Cubs didn’t regret trading Gleyber for Aroldis."

The problem I have with this way of thinking is that it's binary but real life has options. Chapman had a 3.45 ERA in the playoffs. Could they have traded lesser prospects for a slightly lesser closer and won? Probably. Washington got Melancon who had a great year and scoreless 4 innings in playoffs for a couple of minor prospects. Andrew Miller took a couple of real prospects (Clint Frazier) but Miller was under contract for a few more years. He was absolutely dominant in the playoffs. Do Cubs win with Miller? Certainly and then they have him for a few more years too. Do the Cubs regret the trade? No because they won but they could have won in different ways.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#464527) #
Ragans was never a top prospect though, so not sure what his relevance to this discussion is unless you’re suggesting the Jays just shouldn’t trade any young talent lest they turn out to be better than people expected. If anything, his inclusion suggests people shouldn’t get too caught up in whether a certain Jays prospect is on somebody’s Top Prospect lists or not.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#464528) #
I agree, Glevin, which is why I have been saying for weeks now that the Jays should just make a couple of reverse Garcia trades and ship out a few Clases and Wagners. I just find it amusing that other people for weeks have speculated on elite talent but now aren’t willing to part with it.
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#464529) #
You're suggesting you have to trade your best prospects for elite relief help (under control) and that that's just the price. Then you suggested perhaps trading for a rental to lessen the price. Ultimately the cost is not what a player is ranked but what that player becomes while they could have been under your control. Trading Bautista for nothing doesn't mean it was a nothing trade with a low cost for the Pirates because he wasn't good at the time. Obviously...

If you're not a "prospect guy" like me then maybe we should give more weight to someone like Marc who points out a less costly and more realistic package the Jays would have to make. In any event time will tell who is right, who is wrong and who will win during the 2025 MLB Trade Deadline Sweepstakes ™

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#464530) #
BTW I may be willing to part with a package like Nimalla and Yesavage for controllable elite talent. I don't know enough about values but I'm definitely interested to find out. So I don't disagree with your observation either.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#464531) #
No, the cost is what a player is worth today. If you buy a stock and it goes down 80% your cost isn't lowered, just like it isn't raised if it triples for you.

And while I will certainly defer to Marc Hulet's prospect knowledge, he has made it clear he doesn't actually watch the big league club and doesn't know Duran is under control for 2.5 seasons.
John Northey - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#464532) #
In the end what matters most is winning. Prospects come and go but flags fly forever as they say. The problem is in the playoffs there are many other teams also going for it. In 1992 trading Jeff Kent (who'd be a near HOF'er) for David Cone was well worth it, but in 2000 trading Michael Young's solid career for Estaban Loaiza wasn't (didn't even reach the playoffs).

So do you trade Yesavage or Nimmala for a rental? I'd hesitate on that unless there was an obvious hole in the team that was holding it back. Now, if it is for a guy who'll be here for a few years (ala Berrios in 2021) and the Jays are seeing holes in Nimmala or Yesavages game that we (and other teams) aren't seeing, then sure.

The #1 thing to remember is most prospects don't make it.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#464533) #
Very fresh bullpen today. Only Fisher and maybe Nance are down, while Hoffman and Bruihl are drifting into the "needs work" category.
Marc Hulet - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#464534) #
I should have said 60 per year. I do know he's a controllable asset. Wouldn't do two Top 100 prospects for any reliever and I'm not sure many GMs would, either.

I can tell you during my time at Fangraphs I was the first person to ever talk about Griffin Jax as a future big league reliever and one of the first, if not first, on Duran. I have a long history with them and still wouldn't do it.
Michael - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#464535) #
"The more sellers, the wider the assortment and the lower the price, especially for rentals."

I think the point that was being made was that the non-Jays playoff teams likely need to add more pieces or get more help than the Jays. If you forced every team to play as is with no trade help, that would likely be better for the Jays than for the other playoff teams as the Jays are a more complete team.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#464536) #
I think the point that was being made was that the non-Jays playoff teams likely need to add more pieces or get more help than the Jays.

No the point was other playoff teams would pay a lower cost as well. While true, do we care if the Mets or Dodgers pick up players for less than if there were fewer sellers? I don't.

I would be pleased however if we could pick up the players we want for less than if there were very few sellers, no matter what other teams pay.
Katie - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#464537) #
Personally, I'd rather give up a lesser prospect for Phil Maton than give up two of Nimmala, Yeasavage and Rojas for Duran.
Katie - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#464538) #
Maton being more an example than the exact reliever I would want.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#464539) #
Michael had it right. If the Jays aren't targeting elite talent, we don't want Detroit, New York, Boston, Houston, etc. to be able to add elite talent at lower costs.

Very encouraging signs from Scherzer today on this scorcher, results notwithstanding. With the doubleheader on Tueday, the deeper Max can go the better.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#464540) #
Another phenomenal AB from Bichette, the kind that WAR (and WPA) can't begin to capture.
Katie - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#464541) #
Looking through the Cardinals' bullpen, I didn't realize former Blue Jay farmhand Matt Swanson had a 3.12 ERA in 26 big league innings.

If you remember, he was the price the team paid for 13 awful games from Paul DeJong.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#464542) #
My bad. I misinterpreted what you said. Don't agree we'll settle for Yimi-esque talent, but that was a reading comprehension fail on my part.
electric carrot - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#464543) #
earlier in the season ball 2 would have been a strikeout for Ned Flanders.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#464544) #
Schneider was rung up more than a few times on pitches that far out of the zone. He's been an effective hitter when that isn't happening.
Glevin - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#464545) #
Pinch hitting Myles Straw for anyone is just insane to me.
Joe - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#464546) #
Those 13 games from DeJong were honestly shockingly, "I didn't know it was possible to be that bad" bad. 13 games, 44 PA, -77 wRC+, -0.8 fWAR. Incredibly efficient in his awfulness.
92-93 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#464547) #
Holton has extremely good numbers vs. lefties and Straw has come through many times for Schneider so it's an easy move for the manager to make, even if his career numbers suggest otherwise. The main reason I didn't like it was because Loperfido was leading off the 7th, so if they did manage to chip away that spot was going to come up again. It would have made a lot more sense if it was being made as the 3rd out of the 7th or in the 8th inning.
greenfrog - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#464548) #
Why was Green the RP of choice for Schneider down 3-0 in the eighth inning?
BlueJayWay - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#464549) #
Assuming he was saving the real relievers for the heat of Baltimore
scottt - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#464550) #
That was one of the lowest leverage spot they've had all week. They used Nance up by 2.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#464551) #
Hot take - Chad Green and Justin Bruihl will not be on the Jays roster August 1. In fact Bruihl will probably be optioned before tomorrow's game.

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#464552) #
Real hot take - Addison Badger's stock will NEVER be higher.
scottt - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#464553) #
They are finishing their last long stretch of the season.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#464554) #
Why was Green the RP of choice for Schneider down 3-0 in the eighth inning?

It may have been a combination of what Scottt said and to a lesser extent "we're giving you one more chance". Players know that as much as they like and respect someone, team comes first and the decision to cut him will be strictly for baseball reasons.

I really hope I'm right on this and there is no way he's still around post-deadline.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#464555) #
I felt the decision to use Green had something to do with the tough ending to the stretch of games. They play a day-night doubleheader on Tuesday followed by a day game on Wednesday. With all of the key members of the pen rested, they should be able to get through it OK. Scherzer's fine performance obviously was a great help.

Sometimes in 162 games, you just have to take the loss and make the best of it.
SK in NJ - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#464556) #
As mentioned before, Chad Green is not going to be on this roster in a few days. The chances of winning this game were slim even if Green kept it 3-0 (the Tigers would have just used a better reliever) so take the L and save the good relievers for the 4 games in 3 days stretch coming up.
Glevin - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#464557) #
Reliever remains easiest and most important spot to upgrade. Ideally, two mid-late inning guys one lefty and one righty.
christaylor - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#464558) #
That's quite the best given that he's young and never seems like at claim that there is a 0% probability he will not improve.
hypobole - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#464559) #
Surprised no chatter on Scherzer. After he gave up the jack to Torres, I'm thinking here's another poor to mediocre start and will Atkins try to find a way to get rid of a pitcher who's looking more and more like he's washed.

Then he sets down the next 13 in a row, 8 by strikeout, looking like the Max of old. Now I don't know what to think.
John Northey - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#464560) #
Scherzer is a puzzle. But, the big but, is the Jays have to be hunting for an ace type to help in the playoffs and if they get that then it is either a 6 man rotation or someone is dumped and Scherzer appears to be the weakest link right now, even after his 7 IP 3 R game today.
  • Berrios: 3 7+ IP games (2 R 1 ER between all of them combined), 3 sub 5 IP games (16 R/ER over those 3 games)
  • Gausman: 3 8 IP games (2 R 1 ER total), 2 7 IP games (1 R/ER), 3 sub 5 IP games (16 R/ER)
  • Bassitt: 3 7+ IP games (9 R/8 ER between them), 2 sub 5 IP starts (14 R/13 ER)
  • Lauer: 1 7+ IP game (8 IP 1 R/ER), 5 starts sub 5 IP (11 R total - thus pitching well but hit pitch limits)
  • Scherzer: 1 7+ IP game (today) 3 R/ER. 2 sub 5 IP games (4 R/ER total - pitch limits again).
So really none of them are spectacular, none are terrible. By FanGraph's xFIP (decent for looking forward) you get Bassitt 3.61, Lauer 3.70, Scherzer 3.76, Gausman 3.89, Berrios 4.30, Lucas 4.37, Francis 5.09 (yeah he sucked). That is everyone with 10+ IP as a starter, including today's game.

Hrm. Scherzer is right there with Lauer and Gausman and Bassitt - Berrios is an oddity but he is here long term and is seen as a more or less steady middle rotation guy. Dang, this is tough. What to do if they get an ace? Odds are low of it as unless a deal shows up that cannot be refused I suspect all resources are going to the pen or to Eugenio Suárez (3B with a 144 OPS+). Hard to picture the Jays really being in on anyone else. Any upgrade outside of the pen has to be a spectacular one. Mitch Keller doesn't qualify with his 4.05 xFIP, Sandy Alcantara is a long term plan if you can get him but in 2025 he wouldn't be likely to add more than anyone we have here now. Dylan Cease would be (3.37 xFIP) but would be damn expensive. Sigh, so hard to guess what could happen, but I'm certain it'll be relievers unless a white whale drops in Atkins lap.
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 27 2025 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#464562) #
KC resigning Seth Lugo.
scottt - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 06:51 AM EDT (#464563) #
KC is 2 games under .500, but they have an easy schedule, on paper at least.
92-93 - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#464565) #
As I said upthread during the 5th inning, I thought Scherzer looked pretty good (and certainly not “washed”) even before his strong finish. I don’t think they can trade for a starter unless they plan to run a 6-man rotation.

Down 3-0 is a good spot for the last man on the bullpen chart ahead of 4 games in 3 days, and Green got some big outs for this team against the Yankees this very month. Even if the Jays acquired a righty tomorrow, he’s not the guy I would cut. I’d rather keep the depth, for now.
scottt - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#464566) #
They have quite a few days off now, so a 6-man rotation would not be ideal either.
uglyone - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#464567) #

vRHP

1. LF Lukes 224pa 119wrc+
2. DH Springer 292pa 161wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 349pa 130wrc+
4. SS Bichette 358pa 119wrc+
5. RF Barger 247pa 138wrc+
6. C Alejandro 247pa 120wrc+
7. CF Varsho 81pa 142wrc+
8. 3B Wagner 103pa 100wrc+
9. 2B Gimenez 172pa 100wrc+

B. UT Schneider 37pa 87wrc+
B. OF Straw 105pa 49wrc+
B. IF Clement 257pa 56wrc+
B. C Heineman 73pa 115wrc+

X. OF Loperfido 31pa 152wrc+



vLHP

1. 2B Clement 130pa 165wrc+
2. DH Springer 111pa 117wrc+
3. 1B Guerrero 111pa 173wrc+
4. SS Bichette 107pa 111wrc+
5. LF Schneider 71pa 142wrc+
6. C Alejandro 99pa 111wrc+
7. CF Varsho 19pa -59wrc+
8. RF Straw 101pa 89wrc+
9. 3B Barger 60pa 76wrc+
mendocino - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#464569) #
Jeff Passan@JeffPassan

BREAKING: Cleveland Guardians closer Emmanuel Clase has been placed on non-disciplinary paid leave as part of MLB's sports-betting investigation, sources tell ESPN.

Clase is the second Guardians pitcher on leave tied to the investigation, joining right-hander Luis Ortiz.
mendocino - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#464570) #
Jeff Passan@JeffPassan

Cleveland Guardians closer Emmanuel Clase's non-disciplinary paid leave is through Aug. 31, MLB said in a statement.
dalimon5 - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#464571) #
Wow. He gone. Now go get me a Kwan or J-Ram.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#464572) #
Value aside, can players on administrative leave be traded?

The August 31st point is important because that’s the deadline to be on the 40man if you are going to be playoff eligible.

Hodgie - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#464573) #
"BREAKING: Cleveland Guardians closer Emmanuel Clase has been placed on non-disciplinary paid leave as part of MLB's sports-betting investigation, sources tell ESPN."

This suspension is brought to you by FanDuel, the official betting partner of MLB. Please play responsibly.

dalimon5 - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#464575) #
Nobody's ever going to want Clase pitching for them. Didn't he also take drugs earlier in his career?
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#464576) #
People said the same thing last year about Ohtani. We’ll have to see.

I haven’t seen any actual details, so it’s not clear to me if this is an “abundance of caution” situation, or a “we think we got you but need time to figure out a penalty” situation.


hypobole - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#464578) #
Never said Max was washed, just looking more and more so. Why on earth would i think that after he hung that pitch to Torres?

41 year old pitcher misses much of the season to injury which may well still be lingering. Made 6 starts on the low side of mediocre with 0.00 WAR as I pointed out last thread, without any argument from any other poster. Gives up the HR to Torres raising his ERA to 5.58. If anyone thought he was looking good at that point, they sure didn't post it.

Agree by the 5th he was looking good and from there on, looking like the Max of old, as I said.

Chad Green season; -0.3 bWAR, -0.7 fWAR. 2.78 HR/9 169th of 169 qualified RP's.
Green Last 30 days: 9 games 5.10 K/9, 4.15 BB/9 , 7.27 ERA.
92-93 - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#464582) #
He didn't hang anything, he just missed his location with a fastball. It happens. He looked very good in the first and second inning as well.

He's been consistent, and has given the Jays a chance to win every time he has taken the bump. It's not like he's being paid to be an ace.

Chad Green, from June 18th through July 24th, before giving up pretty irrelevant runs in two straight appearances - 11.2ip 1.54era with 3 holds, 0 blown saves, and a win. He helped the team for a month even with bad peripherals.
Mike Green - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#464584) #
Chad Green:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/chad-green-643338?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Bowden Francis:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/bowden-francis-670102?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Comes a time.
greenfrog - Monday, July 28 2025 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#464587) #
Baseball Savant suggests that a trade for Duran and Ryan from Minnesota (replacing Green in the bullpen and Scherzer in the rotation) would significantly strengthen the pitching staff. Both have a 94th percentile pitching run value this year, in contrast to 9th percentile for Green and 29th percentile for Scherzer.
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