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It might be a good time for a road trip.


Yesterday's game was obviously a very difficult one for the Jays to even play. The death of a child is an unnatural thing, it violates the basic order of life itself. As young as they are, enough of the Jays have children of their own to sense very, very sharply what Mark Budzinski and his family are experiencing. Parents should not have to bury their children, ever. It's just wrong.

But the games go on. You will have noticed that the team's offense, after its early season scuffles, has come around, and then some. They scored 4.04 runs per game in April and just 3.92 runs per game in May. In June, though, they scored 6.07 runs per game. By now,† only the Yankees have outscored them on the season, and the Jays have been steadily closing that gap.

Alas, the pitching went right off the rails in June. The team allowed 4.96 runs per game last month. It's a fifteen team league and only three teams have allowed more opposition runs. And the lack of depth is truly alarming. If anything goes amiss in the rotation - say Gausman isn't ready by Thursday - their best option looks like a 23 year old with 35 innings above AA. It's a concern!† I'm not nearly as worried about the bullpen, because relief pitchers grow on trees and Atkins is already beginning to start shaking them to see what might fall into his clutches.

There was some hope that Danny Jansen might begin a rehab stint this week, and maybe even return for the games in Seattle. That is probably a little optimistic - still, it can't happen soon enough. Alejandro Kirk has made truly impressive strides as a defensive player this season, particularly with respect to receiving the ball. And while it doesn't really matter that much in the modern game, his throwing mechanics are also much improved. It speaks very well indeed for both Kirk himself, and the work that he's put in to improve, and for the coaching that has helped him get better (one assumes this is mostly Luis Hurtado.) But Kirk is still extremely inexperienced to be catching at this level. No AL catcher has done as little actual catching. Kirk's got barely 200 pro games behind the plate, and less than 100 of them in the majors. Most AL catchers had played twice that many games behind the plate in the minors before they even made it to the Show. Even Jansen, who is himself one of least experienced AL catchers, spent five seasons in the minors before first seeing the AL in his sixth pro season. Jansen has more games behind the plate in the majors than Kirk does as a pro. And Jansen isn't nearly as experienced as I'd like my catcher to be.

So I would like to say that Kirk is still as green as the grass, because it's true† - but then what could I say about Moreno? (I'll just have to think of something.) The part of the game that still needs to grow for both young catchers resides in the dark arts of calling the game. Yes, one of those mysterious components of the game that we have no idea how to measure, and consequently tend to forget actually exists. But it exists, all right. And it's simply not a job you can delegate to the pitchers. Very, very few pitchers call every pitch themselves. They all reside somewhere between the two poles: the Buehrle (put down the sign, I'll throw whatever you call) and the Maddux (put down the sign for what I have already decided to throw next.)† Just making good pitches is hard enough, and most pitchers - especially the ones with the least experience - are happy enough to leave much of the thinking to the catcher.

Yes, the catcher can study the scouting report for the other team's hitters, he can discuss all these things between innings with the pitcher and the coaches. He can and he does. But so much of this job still happens in the moment, as the catcher sees what his man's pitches are doing on this day, in this inning, and this at bat - and how the hitters are reacting to them, in the day, in the inning, in the time at bat. It's an equation that's constantly changing, quite literally from pitch to pitch. There's a couple of runners on, a 2-2 count, and you have all agreed that the best pitch to this hitter in this type of situation is a back-door slider. Swell - except the batter is looking for a breaking ball. You have noticed, haven't you? Or maybe he's not, but your guy on the mound has been hanging his slider since he came out of the pen. You've definitely noticed that. So what's next? You need an idea, it needs to be a good one, and you need it right now. And you need your pitcher - who's also noticed that his slider is hanging - to believe you, to trust that you do indeed have an idea of what we can do instead. And you don't get to stop and think about it.

It's the most important part of catcher defense by an order of magnitude. Any measurement of catcher defense that doesn't focus, first and foremost, on this part of the game can, and should, be thrown straight into the dustbin. (And the few methods that actually do attempt to account for it have no recourse but to haul out our old friend, Catcher ERA. Express your enthusiasm for that here.) We're doing our best. We have a much better idea now how much pitch framing helps your man on the mound. Quite a lot. Obviously, catching and throwing the ball is kind of a necessary skill, as is the mobility to chase after pop flies - but this right here. This is the ball game.

The only way to master these dark arts is by doing them. And Alejandro Kirk is still as green as the grass, and Gabriel Moreno is a seed that's barely begun to sprout. (Hey! I can do metaphor!)

Well, Oakland is the worst team in the AL. Despite playing in one of the best pitcher's parks in the league, they allow even more runs than the Blue Jays. They do have a pretty good starting pitcher in Frankie Montas, who's at the top of every contender's wish list, and Paul Blackburn is having a nice season. Neither of those two are scheduled to pitch against the Jays. There's not a whole lot else.† They've got two solid position players in RF Ramon Laureano and catcher Sean Murphy. I'd be worried that they were beginning to run Murphy into the ground (two catcher interference calls in the same inning?) except that it hardly matters what they do anyway.

I smell a trap.

Matchups

Mon 4 July - Manoah (9-2, 2.09) vs Irvin (2-6, 3.58)
Tue 5 July - Kikuchi (3-4, 4.74) vs Martinez (1-1, 6.30)
Wed 6 July - Berrios (6-4, 5.72) vs Kaprielian (1-5, 5.43)

Toronto at Oakland, July 4-6 | 139 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#416764) #
I agree that game-calling is very important, but it seems to me that pitchers these days are leaning more to the Maddux than the Buehrle side of the ledger.  And for what it's worth, I am not a fan of the earned/unearned runs distinction for catcher ERA and I'm well aware that the catcher has a limited impact on the runs allowed.  With that said, how many runs were surrendered while each of the catchers have been catching this year and last?  The team has allowed 356 runs in 712 innings so far in 2022, so it's a nice even .5 runs per inning or 4.5 runs/9IP.  In 2021, it was 663 runs in 1405 innings for .47 runs per inning or 4.23 runs/9 IP. 

2022
Collins 65.2 IP 29 runs      3.98R/9IP
Heineman 50 IP, 35R         6.3 R/9IP
Jansen 137 IP, 66R            4.34R/9IP
Kirk       353IP, 156R           3.98R/9IP
Moreno 106IP, 70R             5.94R/9IP

2021
Adams  63 IP 32R             4.57R/9IP
Jansen 481.1IP, 238R      4.45R/9IP
Kirk       338IP, 131R          3.49R/9IP
McGuire 523IP, 262R        4.51R/9IP

Short summary-  Kirk has been very good.  And if you're wondering about the impact of Manoah, it's definitely there but not as large as you might think.  Kirk has caught Manoah for 138.2 innings over his career and the team has allowed 2.47R/9IP; McGuire and Jansen caught him for 67.2 IP and the team allowed 3.99R/9IP. 

In my view, some of the qualities that make Kirk such a fine hitter play into his defensive game as well. 
Magpie - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#416765) #
I think it's something in between - they have a plan, the pitcher has veto power, some exercise it more than others.

One thing I do think they should consider if the team goes back to Jansen for 3 and Kirk for 2 - pairing Kirk with Manoah and Gausman. They've split Manoah and Berrios in the rotation, and had Kirk catch both of them, because they have very similar pitch repertoires. I don't know that they have the same approach, and Kirk-Berrios hasn't really worked this season. Jansen hasn't caught Berrios since the Opening Day disaster, but his three starts with him last year were just fine.
Gerry - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#416766) #
Danny Jansen and Jimi Garcia are joining Buffalo for their game today. Tomorrow is an off day so if required they could play again on Wednesday.
Gerry - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#416767) #
Frankie Montas was expected to be Oakland's prize trading asset this July but he left yesterdays games with a tight shoulder. Not good for Oakland.
Mike Green - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#416768) #
The one who really clicked with Berrios last year was McGuire.  Jansen isn't getting as many low strikes as both Kirk and McGuire.  Which makes sense. 
John Northey - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#416769) #
With catchers game calling there are so many variables I don't know how to measure it. Who is batting, who is pitching, stadium, etc. Probably cERA or OPS against is the fairest by starter. Relievers have too few PA to really measure. So here is OPS against each starter by catcher. I'm skipping Hatch as he was a disaster (Kirk was catching for what it is worth).
  • Manoah: Kirk-575; Jansen-NA; Moreno-NA; Collins-NA: Heineman-NA
  • Berrios: Kirk-783; Jansen-2347 (just 7 PA); Moreno-1426; Collins-NA: Heineman-NA
  • Gausman: Kirk-611; Jansen-797; Moreno-926; Collins-437: Heineman-2333 (3 PA)
  • Stripling: Kirk-829; Jansen-491; Moreno-634; Collins-357: Heineman-711
  • Kikuchi: Kirk-794; Jansen-746; Moreno-1026; Collins-1074: Heineman-775
  • Ryu: Kirk-1000; Jansen-832; Moreno-NA; Collins-NA: Heineman-NA
Huh. Kirk is the only guy to catch Manoah. Didn't know it was that extreme. They certainly pair up well. Kirk is also the primary one for Berrios with Jansen & Moreno having very poor results out of him. Gausman did excellent with Collins, but next with Kirk and the rest not so much. Stripling Kirk doesn't do well with, but Jansen sure does, as does Collins. Maybe next time Stripling gets a turn you put Collins behind the plate just to see if there is something there. Kikuchi seems about equal with Kirk/Jansen/Heineman but very poor with Moreno & Collins. Ryu is Jansen's only (18 PA with Kirk).

Basically Kirk has done well except with Stripling and his tiny bit of time with Ryu. He was a bit worse than Jansen with Kikuchi but not enough to be of note imo. Moreno has ugly OPS against stats with everyone outside of Stripling. So yeah, when Jansen is ready Moreno getting more AAA time makes a ton of sense to work on his defense/game calling. I am surprised Collins does as well as he has with Gausman and Stripling. Given these stats I suspect Kirk will keep it up with Manoah and Gausman once Jansen is back while Jansen gets the rest. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
scottt - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#416770) #
The biggest variable is obviously the opponents. Umpire is probably second.
Shifting is possibly bigger than the catcher's influence.
When you're shifting you want to pitch inside and get a ground ball.

Most pitchers don't let the catcher call their games.
Heck I see Romano shaking 4 or 5 times routinely and he only has 2 pitches.
The only starter who might be influenced by the catcher is Berrios, but I'm not really sure here.
Hatch was probably letting Kirk call the shots, but does it mean anything?

Assuming the pitcher makes all the decisions, why wouldn't Collins do well?
His weakness is blocking and throwing.



Mike Green - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#416773) #
Skye Bolt is a great name for a centerfielder. That is all.
Gerry - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 07:48 PM EDT (#416774) #
Jansen was 1-2 with a walk in Buffalo. Jimi Garcia struck out two in an eight pitch inning.
Gerry - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#416775) #
Matt Gage optioned to make room for Anthony Banda.
Nigel - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#416776) #
Oof this team isnít playing well right now. Very surprised Gage went down. He was one of the few bullpen arms pitching well.
Gerry - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#416777) #
They are talking about the Chapman trade on the broadcast so I looked up the players. Kevin Smith and Zach Logue have spent some time with the A's but both are back in AAA and not playing particularly well right now. Kirby Snead is in the A's bullpen but has a 7 plus ERA. Gunnar Hoglund is getting ready to pitch.

Chapman hasn't hit as well as expected but at least for now the Jays have the best of the deal.
Magpie - Monday, July 04 2022 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#416778) #
This team really needs a day off.
scottt - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 06:07 AM EDT (#416779) #
They need to stop talking about the bullpen needing some rest.
It's just bad bullpen construction if they don't have a guy who can go several innings in a loss.

I guess nobody was expecting a bad Manoah outing with reduced velocity.
Now every starter is a question mark.

I don't get replacing Gage. Banda has no splits. They could have sent Thornton down for a bit.
Banda averages about 2 outs per game.

I don't know if it's Atkins, but somebody likes to have struggling vets rather than rookies who are doing well like Maximo and Gage.

lexomatic - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:33 AM EDT (#416780) #
<br>That veteran magic a competitive team needs?
I don't really get this either.
ISLAND BOY - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#416781) #
The Jays are really in a funk now. When you have your best pitcher going against one of the doormats of the league, it's not Guaranteed Win Night, but pretty close to it. The concern I have is that for at least the last 3 weeks the Jays have not only been playing at the .500 level but they've been looking like a .500 team, as well.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#416783) #
Right now the Jays are dead tired. 5 games in 4 days plus a flight to the west coast (normally gets you a day off) with 4 of those 5 games against the Rays (always a tough opponent). They are human. That is a ton of high pressure games, mixed in with a horrifying death (a teenaged daughter of one of the coaches) makes things very tough. Yeah, they aren't playing well, but that was to be expected.

Current pen is...
1 inning guys: Romano-Cimber-Phelps-Mayza-Richards-Romo-Banda
More than 1 inning: Thornton

Yes, I'd like more than 1 guy who can go more than 1 inning regularly, but with 7 other guys that shouldn't be a big deal outside of extreme situations. And lately it has been just that, thus leading to call ups like Lawrence, Castillo, and Hatch.
Cracka - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#416786) #
I don't know if it's Atkins, but somebody likes to have struggling vets rather than rookies who are doing well like Maximo and Gage.

I think these decisions were made solely in an attempt to build bullpen depth. The regular season is (exactly) half over and we had essentially run out of viable minor league callups. Now we're having veteran "tryouts": Romo, Banda, maybe Derek Holland, and probably some other guys too... There's a very limited trade market for bullpen arms, and this seems to be an attempt to catch lightning in a bottle. Thornton will likely be optioned for Garcia and then that would give us 3 "legit" callup options (incl Max & Gage). I don't think Gausman is going to make his next start (he's still sore). If he goes on the IL, I think they recall Max to start in his place. If he doesn't go on the IL, they might turn to Casey Lawrence for a spot start - he's traveling with the team on the taxi squad.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#416788) #
Generally for the back end of the pen you prefer vets who if they go stale from lack of use who cares? You just release them and get the next live arm. Gage might be a useful piece in 2023-2028 so you want him working today, same for Castillo. Gage is older so I see him coming back up if the vets brought in have troubles quickly. Castillo you want pitching regularly so he can take over a rotation slot if needed. His last game was in the majors on July 2nd vs Tampa, so he could be used for Gausman easily if he looks like he can't pitch on Thursday (the Jays probably know by now one way or the other). Gausman has 2 starts pre-ASG - Thursday and July 13th so it might be wise to sit him for those 2 and make sure he is 100% for the second half. Give those starts to Castillo and see if he has what it takes. If the pen is drained beforehand call up Lawrence as well to eat innings.

I think this method - grabbing retreads and seeing if lightning in a bottle can be had - isn't a bad one, although I'd much prefer to see a solid guy or two brought in instead. But relievers are so bloody variable you never want to give up much to get one. Sadly the Jays I think were counting on Pearson being healthy by now, and for Ryu to be decent so Stripling could be that long man in the pen. With those 2 things not happening 2 key pen arms are missing, who both could go 2+ innings. I think Castillo could cover one of those slots but the question is do the Jays want to have him sit on the ML bench for days at a time or develop his arm more in AAA so he can fight for a rotation slot in 2023? If Romo and Banda can cover a few innings and do well then you can develop Castillo more in AAA, and give Gage more pressure innings in AAA too so he is ready to cover if/when one of those guys flops.

I suspect the Jays will keep grabbing off the waiver wire, and will try hard to make a deal for a really good arm. Keep an eye on Yosver Zulueta who was moved to AA recently - 13.3 K/9 this season so far, and age 24 so he has to be pushed hard imo. If he can do well in AA in July (off to a poor start - he is a starter) then he could be a pen piece for August/September. Adrian Hernandez is a good one to watch too - up to AAA as a reliever, 12.8 K/9 vs 3.8 BB/9 but is on the minor league IL right now. I'm sure there are others.
bpoz - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#416789) #
Castillo looked ready to me. I am interested how much he pitches in Buffalo. If at all. Everything depends on Gausman being ready for his next start.

Atkins maybe knows how to bring Max up as soon as he gets his 4-5 days rest. Max frees up a 26 man spot for now.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#416790) #
Gms 01-40: 22-18 (89 win pace)

Gms 41-80: 22-18 (89 win pace)

plus a loss in game 81, for an 88 win pace.

Wildly different strengths and weakness in Q1 and Q2, but overall the same result.

Good team. Borderline contender. But they admitted they had the resources to be more than that this offseason and they chose not to.
Cracka - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#416791) #
There's a 15-day "waiting period" before an optioned pitcher can be recalled (12 more days for Castillo). But if someone goes on the IL, there's no waiting period.

Gausman is scheduled to make two starts before the break (July 7 & 13). If he goes on the IL, he cannot return before the break, and his next start would be on/after July 22. But if he skips this turn and is ready by July 12th (9 days rest), he could still make two starts before the break (July 12 & 17). I guess a lot will depend on how he feels on Thursday - but an IL stint is essentially 3 weeks long due to the AS break.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#416792) #
Basically to get Max up for Gausman's start you'd need to IL someone - probably Gausman for 10 days. Retroactive to July 3rd (pitched on the 2nd) would mean he is out from 3rd to 12th, able to pitch on the 13th thus only gone for 1 start. Except it appears pitchers need to go on a 15 day IL, not a 10 day one thus he'd miss both starts pre-All-Star Break. So it all depends on how the Jays feel about his condition. Pitchers are required to stay down for 15 days unless there is an injury. Casey Lawrence was the 27th man for the double header thus is eligible to be called up immediately. Pitchers on the 40 man - Casey Lawrence, Anthony Kay, Thomas Hatch, Matt Gage, Hagen Danner, Max Castillo, Jeremy Beasley, and Shaun Anderson. I don't see Hatch being used after his horrid start (plus a 5.12 ERA in AAA), Kay has barely pitched this year - his longest game is 2 2/3 IP. Gage & Beasley (longest game was 4 IP) & Anderson (last start May 13) & Danner are all relievers, Castillo we all know. So I see it as Castillo (via a IL stint for someone) or Lawrence (has done well, 2.22 ERA in AAA, 1 bad game in the majors when asked to go as far as possible and went 5 2/3 giving up 6 runs vs Tampa) to go along with 3 so-so games (3.68 ERA over 7 1/3 IP). I'd much rather see Castillo given the start but figure the Jays will go the least resistance route and put in Lawrence.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#416794) #
uglyone - wow, amazing that the Jays did that. Identical records in the first 40 and second 40 games. Doing a quick check it seems the runs for/against are...
first 40 : 145-154 - exp: 19-21
second 40: 235-202 - exp: 22-18

So a bit lucky in the first 40, but pretty much dead on in the second 40. Fits with how those first 40 felt - with so many 1 run wins and the like. 1 run record: First 40 11-6; second 7-6. Should be interesting to see how the 3rd set of 40 goes.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#416795) #
they had the resources to be more than that this offseason and they chose not to.

It wasn't really a choice. This was not a normal off-season. For more than four months they actually weren't allowed to do anything. They were able to get Berrios, Gausman, and Garcia signed before the game shut down. They signed Kikuchi and made the Chapman and Tapia trades as soon as the game was open for business in March.
scottt - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#416796) #
You cannot build bullpen depth with guys out of options.
These guys have to hold a spot or they're gone.
The Rays traded for a guy who can be optioned. He wasn't very good, but that's how you build depth.

We're close to the trade deadline when the team can get an extra high leverage guy.
Castillo and Gage were getting it done.
If you replace Thornton with Garcia, who can go down when you need an arm?

I think they really need to look into using a position player to pitch the mop up innings.
It's allowed if the run differential is 6 or more. That would literally save the pen.

greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#416797) #
Also, the Jays probably did well not to sign Seager or Semien, based on how theyíve done this season (both may be adequate performers over the next few seasons, but their contracts are enormous).

And the team did try hard to trade for Ramirez (which probably would have cost Kirk plus other players).

Spending the extra cash to acquire Verlander would have been nice. The Jays were reportedly in on him, too. I always go back to what AA said ó you should plan to go through about eight starting pitchers in a season. Unfortunately the team only planned six deep (including Stripling).
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#416798) #
I think they really need to look into using a position player to pitch the mop up innings.

I did think we might see Espinal return to the mound - he's done it twice before - in the second game on Saturday. Mayza and Cimber each got an inning instead.

The situation came up three times in June. Each time, the last man in the pen sucked up most of the remaining innings and each time he was optioned to Buffalo the next day - Beasley twice, Lawrence once.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#416799) #
"
It wasn't really a choice. This was not a normal off-season. For more than four months they actually weren't allowed to do anything. They were able to get Berrios, Gausman, and Garcia signed before the game shut down. They signed Kikuchi and made the Chapman and Tapia trades as soon as the game was open for business in March."

Yes they did a solid job of re-signing and/or mostly replacing the guys they lost.

But they could have done more and said they had the resources to do more and didn't.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#416800) #
This team still has a chance to do well in the postseason. What matters is the composition and health of the team in early October. There will be some changes before then.

Winning the first half of the season (like winning the offseason) is nice, but the more important thing is to be a powerhouse in October.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#416801) #
What I'm saying is they had the resources but didn't really have the opportunity. They did make sure to take care of the starting pitching before getting shut down. But for four and a half months, all they could do is think about what they wanted to do. Without being able to actually do anything about it.

There wasn't enough time, Michael. Wasn't enough time.
scottt - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#416802) #
They had a decent offseason.
Nobody on the team is having the year Judge is having.
Closest is Kirk which is pretty good actually.

It just seems like despite talking about team accomplishments they do better in individual performances.

Thornton is not a multi-inning guy. He averages 4 outs per outing.
Some of the 1 inning guys are closer to 2 outs per outing and nobody else is above 3.

So, by outs, the pen can do less than 24 outs if everybody is used the same day.
That's not enough. Anybody getting more than 3 outs can't pitch the next day.

Garcia will soon be back, but they will also need someone to take Gaussman's start.
Maybe put Gaus on the IL, bring a guy up and then send him down and activate Garcia?
And then what about his next start?

Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#416803) #
Thornton is not a multi-inning guy.

By the standards of modern relievers - he surely is. He's worked 2 innings or more 9 times (8 were scoreless) this season, despite spending a chunk of it in Buffalo. All the other relievers combined have made just 10 appearances of 2 innings or more, led by Lawrence with 3 of them.

What Thornton is... well, there's no in-between with this guy. He either puts up a zero - which he usually does - or he gives up multiple runs. He almost never goes 1.2 and allows a single run.
bpoz - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#416804) #
Ray is having a good season. Manoah is much better as I expected because he has never struggled and Ray took over 5 years to become very good. Gausman is close to equal to Ray.

I have hopes for Castillo. He has not really struggled. His 1st 2 batters hit Hrs and then he got the next 3 batters which shows a lot of inner strength. He gave up 2 runs and then zero runs over 8.1 innings. I "think" that is correct math.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#416805) #
All the other relievers combined have made just 10 appearances

Forgot about Stripling, who went 2 IP twice. Make that 9 for Thornton, 12 for the rest of them.
Cracka - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#416808) #
Devon White has been called up from Buffalo's coaching staff and will serve as the OF coach in Budzinski's absence. He's in his sixth season now as a AAA coach and will wear an MLB uniform for the first time in 21 years.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#416809) #
Devon White has been called up from Buffalo's coaching staff.

Don't think he's getting his old number.
Gerry - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#416810) #
Vlad gets the night off. So far this season he has played first base in 61 games, been DH in 18 and I believe has one day off. Maybe I'm just an old guy but why does a guy who plays 75% of the games in the field need a day off?
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#416811) #
Could be an effort to rest his sore wrist.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#416812) #
18 games in 17 days?
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#416813) #
https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/blue-jays-vladimir-guerrero-jr-turns-down-home-run-derby-to-protect-wrist/
Chuck - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#416814) #
Don't think he's getting his old number.

Is even getting his old name? I thought I read that his real surname is Whyte and that he had gone back to that.

Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#416815) #
Walk walk start. Oh Kikuchi. I just never understand how you can not be able to throw strikes as a major league pitcher. I know pitching is hard. But cripes.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#416816) #
Best start we've had in a while.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#416817) #
I thought I read that his real surname is Whyte and that he had gone back to that.

According to Wikipedia (got to be true) he legally changed it back to the original "Whyte" around 2003 at the request of his children. But he still signs "White," apparently.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#416818) #
Oh hey biggio is ahead of Tapia. Baby steps.
Chuck - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#416819) #
Watching Kikuchi nibble is a form of torture.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:18 PM EDT (#416820) #
I've never actually seen him eat before.
Nigel - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#416821) #
Unless my math is wrong, Biggio is now third on the team in wRC+.
Chuck - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#416822) #
Nuke Laloosh!
Chuck - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#416823) #
The Blassification is apparently in full swing.
tercet - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#416824) #
Who needs pitching when you can have 3 catchers, lol
Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#416825) #
5 BBís and 2 HBP in 2.1 inn. How long can this continue at the major league level for a contender? Not that there are other great options but this really is painful. I imagine the fielders agree.
Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#416826) #
And to torture us further, Thornton agreed that walks look like fun.
tercet - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#416827) #
UO you think for the first time ever Ross Atkins will overpay for pitching?
Or just continue to dumpster dive/bargain bin shop?
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#416828) #
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#416829) #
you think for the first time ever Ross Atkins will overpay for pitching?

Quite a few people around here thought Martin and Woods-Richardson was very much an overpay for Berrios.
Hodgie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#416830) #
That was cute of Bolt to believe he had any shot at that blast from Teo.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#416831) #
Here's the Berrios-for-Martin/SWR trade thread.

https://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20210729204708105
Chuck - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#416832) #
Is the ump 7 feet tall?
tercet - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#416833) #
Quite a few people around here thought Martin and Woods-Richardson was very much an overpay for Berrios. Not for me, if you live or die by the "prospect rankings" sure maybe, but alot of the red-flags/warts were showing for AM/SWR last year before they were traded. The Twins will be lucky if either of those two have any sort of a mlb career now lol
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#416834) #
The Twins will be lucky if either of those two have any sort of a mlb career now lol

This time last year, they were both a lot more shiny and new. It's easy to take the test after they tell you the answers. Which aren't in yet, anyway. Still plenty of time for both of them.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#416835) #
Loved that Berrios trade.

But not sure we have anyone that fits the hype over performance model like Martin did.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#416836) #
This might be the year to use the teamís financial clout (taking on salary) to improve the terms of a deadline move.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#416837) #
You're thinking about eating the Moustakas money as part of the price for Luis Castillo, aren't you.

Well, they don't need a catcher, that's for sure.
Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#416838) #
What Thornton is... well, there's no in-between with this guy. He either puts up a zero - which he usually does - or he gives up multiple runs. He almost never goes 1.2 and allows a single run. Heh. Thornton does nearly that with 2.1 inn and 1 ER. I agreed with you at the time, Magpie!
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#416839) #
The Jays sending Kirk home on the Chapman single with two on and one out. Kirk thrown out by a mile. The little things, again.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#416840) #
Just trying to - italics begone - make me look bad.
Nigel - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#416841) #
Hard to remember a time recently when the team played worse fundamental baseball.

And as for PH for Biggio but not Tapia? Thatís a joke. Montoyo does have a blind spot.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#416842) #
Aggressive call be the 3B coach but Tapia was coming up so whatever.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#416843) #
Begone I said.
Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#416844) #
Italics. Sorry, team. My bad. Been awhile since I tried that. Iím obviously not very bright.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#416845) #
But you're a Dr.!
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#416846) #
If the Jays have that little confidence in Tapia then Kirk should have been running for home off the swing of the bat, not holding up to see whether it would fall in.
Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#416847) #
And clearly not all of us are bright :)

I am actually a physician, but the nickname has nothing to do with it. My real nickname is Marco, but it got combined by my buddies with Dr Z like 20 years ago when I did weekly fantasy football predictions, like Dr Z in sports illustrated. Ah, to have that much time again.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:42 PM EDT (#416848) #
Aggressive call be the 3B coach but Tapia was coming up so whatever.

Tapia making the second out doesn't end the inning. It brings one of the team's two lefty-mashers to the plate.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#416849) #
Forgive me Dr.Z....

Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#416850) #
Heh, nice, ugly. I was never a huge Simpsonís guy.

I actually didnít think the send was that bad. The left fielder made a nice play on a weird hop, hit the second baseman on the button and Kirk was out by perhaps 8-10 feet. Iíve certainly seen worse. And it took each step to be executed.
Nigel - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#416851) #
Yeah, that send was just a bust by the 3rd base coach full stop. I still cannot comprehend anyone choosing to PH Biggio over Tapia. Thereís zero justification for that. Particularly when Puk has some control issues.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#416852) #
Montoyo on the hot seat?
John Northey - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:54 PM EDT (#416853) #
The Berrios trade did look really bad on the surface last year. Both Martin and SWR were very highly rated by everyone, but I do like that I caught Martin's power had vanished and this year it is even worse (249/378/313) a guy hitting like that won't get much of a chance in the majors, even with his 22-4 SB-CS ratio unless they are gold glove level and he ain't that. Now, with Berrios having that big contract and doing so poorly this year his value has gone big time negative at the Trade Value site (-52.9), but Martin and SWR have both dropped too (17.4 and 5.4 respectively) and I suspect will go down more unless something changes. At the time of the trade they were Berrios 42.9, Martin 42.6, SWR 22.3 so no question the Jays traded those 2 at their peak value, Berrios only is negative due to the contract and some poor results. I am confident he will do better soon and shift back to the positive by the end of 2023. Martin I suspect will drop more to the point of no value and be forgotten. SWR I expect to get a chance just due to the need for pitching that is so desperate.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#416854) #
"Both Martin and SWR were very highly rated by everyone"

Eh.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#416855) #
It was certainly an optimistic send. Probably prompted by the general idea that a lousy team often has trouble making those plays. Kirk did manage to take an extra base the other day, but he it turns out he isn't quite as quick when he has to cover 180 feet.

Jays working on a three-hitter! One of the worst ones ever.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#416856) #
Biggio has a 174 wRC+ over the last month (226 wRC+ over the last two weeks). Somewhat surprised the Jays took him out in that situation.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 05 2022 @ 11:59 PM EDT (#416857) #
"Surprised" isn't the word I'd use seeing biggio pinch hit for instead of Tapia.

"Angrily unsurprised", maybe.
James W - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#416858) #
Who needs pitching when you can have 3 catchers, lol

They're limited to 13 pitchers, so as long as they have 13 pitchers (like they do now), the numbers of catchers has absolutely nothing to do with what pitching is on hand.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#416859) #
In my confusion over the move, my first thought was that Montoyo was punishing Biggio for dropping the foul popup earlier in the game.
Nigel - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:07 AM EDT (#416860) #
I think we just have to assume Tapia has blackmail material on Montoyo:)
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#416861) #
the numbers of catchers has absolutely nothing to do with what pitching is on hand.

My first thought as well, but I think he was referring to the idea of trading one for pitching.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#416862) #
Feels like the Jaysí half of the sixth inning was the turning point in this one. Could have been bases loaded, one out, with an opportunity to PH for Tapia.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#416863) #
The Sportsnet crew did a good analysis of the cascading errors that occurred during the Kirk play in the sixth, including the bad read of Chapmanís liner by Kirk, the bad send by Rivera, the mistake by Teoscar (getting out of the way of the relay throw, making it easier for the Aís to gun down Kirk), and the on-deck hitter (Tapia) failing to signal to Kirk that he should slide into home.
Nigel - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:40 AM EDT (#416864) #
With less than two outs I think it would be hard to call that a bad read by Kirk. He had to hesitate to make sure the ball wouldnít be caught. The rest - agreed.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 07:54 AM EDT (#416865) #
Kirk did manage to take an extra base the other day, but he it turns out he isn't quite as quick when he has to cover 180 feet.

According to Statcast, Kirk has taken .6 seconds off his home to first time over the last two years.  He's about as fast as I am over 90 feet- so yes, I 'll take "quite as guick" even if it's, um, generous. 

8 walks and 2 hit batters will kill you. 

Kikuchi and  Richards have very similar lines now.  It's awfully hard to be even passable walking 5.5 batters per 9 innings. Nolan Ryan did it in the 70s, but it was a different time and he was Nolan Ryan.  Despite the ineffectiveness of Kikuchi and Richards, the Blue Jay staff has allowed the 5th fewest BB/9IP in the major leagues (behind the Dodgers, Yankees, Giants and Rays). 
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 08:08 AM EDT (#416866) #
Robbie Ray walked 7.84 per 9IP in 2020, then lowered that to 2.42 in 2021 and 3.11 this year. So it's possible to recover from a prolonged stretch of extreme wildness. But there is also a possibility that his days as an effective SP are over.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#416867) #
[Kirk's] about as fast as I am over 90 feet

They time some of us with a stopwatch, and some of us with a sundial.

The last time I tried to run 90 feet - it was a long, long time ago, during the first infant stirrings of the TMBL - my first thought was - "Geez, this is much further than I remember." My next thought was "Is this uphill?" And my final thought was that recurring phrase Danny Glover used so often in the Lethal Weapon movies.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#416868) #
Kirk that he should slide into home.

I don't know if Kirk has a slide-to-avoid-the-tag-move in his skill set, which is the only reason one would ever slide into home anyway. It doesn't strike me as part of his game that he's spent a lot of time developing. A man's got to know his limitations, after all. The only thing he really did wrong was doing what his coach told him to do.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:01 AM EDT (#416869) #
Kikuchi and Richards have very similar lines now.

It's downright spooky how similar their lines are. And yet the experience of watching them is quite different. Watching Richards just feels like seeing another pitcher having a bad day. Watching Kikuchi feels like some undergoing a fiendish torture devised by some especially sadistic demon. It's impossible to endure. Right now, Montoyo is this close to telling Pete Walker he's got to go out there and pitch himself if he can't get Kikuchi straightened out immediately.

Yes, folks, I wake up in the morning, see what I've missed!
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:03 AM EDT (#416870) #
Moreno newly minted as 6th best prospect in baseball by MLB. Martinez to 38th. Tiedemann to 65th and Groshans down to 87th.

No Simeon Woods Richardson, Austin Martin or Gunnar Hoglund (yet).

BOS - 4 players
NYY - 4 players
TB - 3 players if you exclude Nate Lowe





Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#416871) #
It's awfully hard to be even passable walking 5.5 batters per 9 innings. Nolan Ryan did it in the 70s

Much more recently, another hard-throwing LH (and not a freak of nature like Ryan) - Al Leiter in his first five full seasons in Toronto and Florida (1993-97.) In those years, Leiter went 53-45, 3.85 with an ERA+ of 113 while walking 5.2 per 9. (Then he went to New York, met Mike Piazza, and suddenly a lot of those balls became strikes.) Like Kikuchi, Leiter was very hard to hit. Unlike Kikuchi, Leiter was very good at keeping the ball in the yard.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#416872) #
Kirk's best chance was to bowl over Murphy who was in the way.  I didn't see a lane for Kirk to slide to the plate given his size, and I agree that the a Trea Turner-style dance move is likely not in Kirk's repertoire.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#416873) #
Kirk's best chance was to bowl over Murphy who was in the way.

Agreed. And Alejandro had to be thinking "bowl this guy over? He's enormous."
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#416874) #
Or, something like

Ņgolpear a este tipo? el es enorme. Mierda.

To be precise...
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#416875) #
Bottom line, Kirk should have been held by Rivera. At that point the manager would have been in a position to decide whether to let Tapia hit with the bases loaded and one out, or possibly PH Vladdy (with Zimmer taking over in the outfield after that).

Anyway, hindsight is 20/20.
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#416876) #
" It's awfully hard to be even passable walking 5.5 batters per 9 innings."

Yeah, and Kikuchi walked 5 in a little over 2 innings plus 2 hit batters. I don't know what more he has to do to make management say," Look, we're sending you down to the minors where there's less pressure to win and you can work on developing a consistent delivery." You can't expect a fifth starter to compete like an ace, but he needs to at least give the team a chance to win each time out.

92-93 - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#416877) #
Rivera has made some truly horrendous coaching decisions at 3B the past few years, but he has been more or less unnoticeable this season (=good?). Everyone can make an occasional error.

Unless he's hurt, last night's decision to pinch hit for Biggio was incomprehensible. With first and second and no outs you want to stay out of the DP, and Biggio is significantly less likely to hit into one than Guerrero. He's also just as likely to get on base and keep the line moving. The decision was even more bizarre considering that Tapia was due up 3rd in the same inning, barring a DP. Obviously if you're going to PH you do it for your #8 hitter, not your #6 hitter.

Hodgie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#416878) #
Montoyo was a deer in the headlights last night. I feel bad, the FO did him no favours by not providing better SP or bullpen depth to start the season, but the ship has sprung a leak and he really appears incapable of patching the holes. I firmly believe that a manager's impact outside the locker room is usually minimal, but Montoyo is putting that belief to the test. The team's fundamentals are horrible and that is on the coaching staff, and his in-game decisions are too often indefensible. I doubt a move would be made in-season, but the Jays are now only 2.5 games up on Cleveland for the third wildcard, which for a team that many predicted could/should win the AL Eest is a major disappointment.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:02 AM EDT (#416879) #
I think the team is still a little shell-shocked at the moment. Obviously, they have to get over it. We expect them to win, dammit.

In his very brief managerial career, Montoyo's teams have played significantly better in the second half and September has generally been their best month. (SSS warnings apply.) They're going to have to do it again.
bpoz - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#416880) #
There is still a lot of baseball left to play.

Slumps happen. Semien is picking it up in June/July.

Relievers either have it or they don't. The Jays lost faith in Borucki and sent him to Seattle. This is going to happen to a few others I expect.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#416881) #
I did not watch the game, but I assumed Biggio was pulled because of injury when I looked at the box score. If it's not injury related, then pinch hitting for one of your hottest/best hitters (3rd on the team in wRC+ min 100 PA) while letting one of the worst players in baseball stay in the game is horrendous managing. Charlie has had issues with recognizing who his best players are for years, whether it's position players or relievers. It has not gotten better with time.

The Mariners have won 12 of their last 15 games, and sit 3.5 games back of the Jays for WC3 with a 4 game set coming up. The Guardians are 2.5 games back. Both the M's and CLE play in dumpster fire divisions (aside from the Astros in the West) so the Jays really need to get things together and make some moves at the deadline.
scottt - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#416882) #
Kikuchi is very frustrating. It's like he wasn't following the game plan.
Hardly any fastballs in the first inning and his breaking balls couldn't find the plate.
Moreno was sitting in the middle of the plate, but it looks like Kikuchi was aiming for the corners regardless.
The problem was not lack of fastball command.
I don't know if the first 2 batters even swung the bat once.

Oakland is basically a AAA club.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#416883) #
Kirk had the low center of gravity working for him.  The harder they come, the harder they fall...

I imagine that a catcher is particularly hesitant to bowl over or topple another catcher in the play at the plate.  The catchers union has rules, dontcha know? 
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#416884) #
Kirk had the low center of gravity working for him.

He surely does! And some 250 pounds of force he can put into it, once he builds up sufficient speed... wait, this plan may have a flaw.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#416885) #
The catchers union has rules

Professional courtesy. Kirk practically caught Murphy as he was falling. It wasn't so much that he bowled him over as he needs a little more runway to come to a halt.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#416886) #
I'm watching the political career of Boris Johnson stagger to its end in real time. Got to get some popcorn.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#416887) #
I'm watching the political career of Boris Johnson stagger to its end in real time. Got to get some popcorn.

BoJo is a classic baseball nickname.  There, you've avoided the denunciations which follow political comment sometimes here!

Kirk could have done it.  He would have had to pace himself turning the corner so he could reach a full head of steam at the critical moment.  The force would have been less resistible than the object movable. 
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#416888) #
Only one Blue Jay player has faced Kaprelian. Raimel Tapia has gone 1 for 3 so.
Nigel - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#416889) #
The PH'ing decisions (or lack thereof) last night can't be justified. But I'm giving the coaching staff a mulligan for a few days given that the whole team looks a little shell shocked right now. But the fixation with Tapia is real. Weirdly real.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#416890) #
Gausman definitely won't start tomorrow. But Sunday is a possibility.
Paul D - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#416891) #
I wonder if David Price could be had for cheap to fill the long man role
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#416892) #
Lawrence recalled, Thornton optioned to Buffalo. They've also claimed Matt Peacock on waivers.
Hodgie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#416893) #
Last night also seemed to encapsulate the Trent Thornton season experience in a nutshell, in that his line was both better and worse than it appeared. Better in that, despite being rushed into the game to handle a 1-out, bases-loaded situation due to Montoyo somehow watching the first two innings and being convinced that Kikuchi should be fine to start the third without anyone warming up in the bullpen, Thornton was able to get out of the inning only allowing 1 inherited runner to score. Additionally, he only gave up a single walk and hit each over his 2.1 innings. Good Thornton!

Worse in that the lone walk was of the non-competitive, four-pitch variety to freaking Chad Pinder to score 1 run, and the lone hit surrendered a long ball to Stephen Piscotty. Both Pinder and Piscotty came into the game with sub-80 wRC+ marks for the season. Bad Thornton!

Cracka - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#416894) #
A relief pitcher on waivers with MLB experience? Check. With minor league options left? Check. And named after a bird??? Check. Brad Peacock's a no-brainer right now. Haven't had a good bird name on the team since... Jeff Hearron? They tried to make it work with Greg Bird this spring, and now they get their man. Anyway, that's my explanation for claiming Peacock...
John Northey - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#416895) #
Well, as bad as Kikuchi has been he still has just 1 start where he allowed 5 or more runs (5 on the nose). Hard to believe, but true. 3 times he got 6 innings in, 3 more times 5+, 4 times 4+, 2 times 3+, 3 times 2+, once under an inning. He has faced 20-25 batters 8 times, 6 times with 15-19, just twice less than 15 (14 on July 5th, 8 on June 8th). Clearly he is allowed to see the lineup once almost no matter what, but by mid way through the second time he is toast. Seems Montoyo has a very short leash with Kikuchi and for good reason. I think he'd be well served by a month in AAA where he could be left out there until he gets 5 innings+ regardless of score. Work out his issues.

For comparison... 5+ runs allowed by...
Manoah: once; Gausman: twice; Berrios: 5 times; Stripling: none; Ryu: 2 times; Kikuchi: once;

Under 5 IP
Manoah: never; Gausman: 3 times; Berrios: 5 times; Stripling: 6 times; Ryu: 4 times; Kikuchi: 10 times;

Of course, Hatch was sub 5 IP, over 5 runs in his one start (10 runs in 4 2/3).

So Manoah is the horse. Gausman gets his innings, Berrios is trusted even if he hasn't really earned it this year, Stripling is moving into the trust zone but has a short leash still, just not as short as Kikuchi, Ryu was trusted but is a non-factor now. Those 20 short starts between Stripling/Ryu/Kikuchi are killers. 10 for each of those 2 slots, just 8 total for the other 3 starters. Stripling (11)/Ryu (6) = 17 starts, everyone else but Hatch is 16 before today.
Chuck - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#416896) #
They've also claimed Matt Peacock on waivers.

I just listened to a pile of codswallop on today's broadcast how Romo was brought in because he's a proven winner. I assume Peacock's experience with the Diamondbacks and Royals and Banda's with the Pirates are for the same reasons? Those pedigrees must be honoured!

We're not chumps. Why subject us to such asinine narratives? The organization is bringing in any warm body it can get its hands on because these are desperate times. Full stop. No need to sprinkle this cold truth with pixie dust.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#416897) #
First walk drawn by a Jays hitter since Teoscar in the ninth inning on Sunday against Tampa Bay.
Chuck - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#416898) #
Haven't had a good bird name on the team since...

Greg Bird? Well, almost. Just this past spring, many a wishcaster had him pegged as a middle of the order lefthanded bat, resurrecting his injury-riddle career. Alas, it was not to be.

Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#416899) #
Greg Bird?

Hitting .222/.333/.370 with 6 HRs in 55 games at AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Not to be.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#416900) #
Finally a good day. A quick win and a short trip to Seattle with a pitching plan ready (crosses fingers).
bpoz - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#416904) #
1 run win. I will take it but not really good.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#416905) #
So I got to thinking about the barrio. The Latino contingent on the Jays is not exactly a homogenous group - they come from Puerto Rico and four different sovereign nations. And I thought - I'll bet they all have very different accents. Some may have the Spanish equivalent of a Southern drawl, others could be like East End Cockneys. That sort of thing. I tried to find out, didn't learn much, save that those who speak Caribbean Spanish - the large Dominican contingent, the Puerto Ricans and the Cuban - apparently tend to speak so quickly that the continental Spanish speakers sometimes have trouble understanding them.

It was something else that struck me, the discovery that Gurriel's accent would of course be quite different from other Cuban accents. It would? Of course it would. Cuba's really big. If you put one end in Toronto, the other end would reach almost all the way to Thunder Bay. It's about the size of Great Britain from one end to the other, just much narrower. I so often forget how the maps I've looked at all my life distort the relative sizes of places, depending on their distance from the equator. Gabriel Moreno's Venezuela is almost twice the size of Spain itself. And Mexico, of course, is twice as big as Venezuela and has more Spanish speakers than any other country on earth. Of course there are at least a dozen local accents.
Eephus - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#416906) #
It may be lost in the endless drag and nuance of a 162 game season, but I do genuinely think this was a big win for the team. Escape Oakland on a winning note in a series where nothing seemed to be going right for the fellas in blue.

Theyíve been thus far a good but not great team: plenty of star talent that hasnít fully hit its full peak, which I think has been the greatest source of frustration/disappointment thus far (at least in the non Tapia/Kikuchi Divisions).

They clearly need some help (particularly on the pitching depth side) and I do expect the front office to provide it, although it may not be as flashy a move as many would like. With the Yankees simply running away with things, it feels like a good year to make the playoffs but not sell the future completely for a perhaps ill-fated present. It simply just might not be the year where Ďgoing all iní is a prudent action to take.

Still, this team is clearly capable of making the playoffs. This is a good team! Theyíre just plagued by the inconsistencies that plague all baseball teams, the worse ones more than others (although you wouldnít know it by how the Aís have played this week). As long as they get there (with some solid adds) the Blue Jays will be a dangerous playoff team even in a wildcard round. As long as they get there
92-93 - Wednesday, July 06 2022 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#416907) #
It will be very tough for the 2nd and 3rd wild cards to advance into the next round, having to play all 3 games on the road. This is the year to go for it, because bringing back the same team next year is going to cost significantly more. There is no real money coming off the books and a whole bunch of arbitration raises that are due, including Hernandez, Guerrero, Biggio, and Jansen. Bichette, Espinal, and Romano will likely enter their arb years for the first time. Itís nice to talk about sustainable winning and a whole other matter to experience it in the AL East when you arenít New York or Boston. The Jays simply canít piss away the cheap years of all these young bats.
Eephus - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 12:51 AM EDT (#416908) #
I propose the top Wildcard spot, then. Or, just winning as many games as possible. They need guys but I think it can be done.

scottt - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#416912) #
They replaced Shaun Anderson with Peacock.
He still has 2 options and will be in Buffalo for now.

Cracka - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#416915) #
And I thought - I'll bet they all have very different accents.

Josh Thole discussed this exact topic a few years ago on Ricky Romero's Podcast (episode #6). As a prospect with the Mets, he was strongly encouraged to learn Spanish and the Mets offered evening classes. Thole became quite fluent after spending time in the Dominican and Venezuela and today speaks/understands four different Spanish dialects, including Cuban and Mexican. Interestingly even Ricky Romero, a native speaker, said he had sometimes had trouble understanding Dominicans because of how fast they talked.
JohnL - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#416916) #
Spanish/Caribbean accents:

I remember a story about Chris Colabello's Spanish when he played with the Jays. It's in a 2025 WSJ article https://www.wsj.com/articles/chris-colabello-the-toronto-blue-jays-team-linguist-1445553191?mod=e2tw (subscription; I was able to get in via Toronto Library website.)

It opens with Osuna wanting to know how CC was able to speak "flawless, Dominican-accented Spanish... but first had to ask him to slow down." Bautista called CC "El Dominicano".

He started by taking Spanish in high school (he was already fluent in Italian), and later learned more when he got into pro baseball. "I've always made it a point to try to be a good teammate... biggest thing is they know they can't talk smack about me behind my back." He did say that Venezuelans also spoke fast.
Evair Montenegro - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#416917) #
Almost all spanish speaking countries have different accents, some are similar, some uses words that only exist in their countries, but in the end is the same language and a native speaker understands all.
John Northey - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#416918) #
For 2023 I checked Cot's Contracts and it shows the Jays at $119.3 mil right now for 2023 ($171 mil this year not counting the extras for CBT purposes). Coming off the books is Stripling (under $4 mil), Romo (minimum), Phelps ($1.75). Adding is arbitration year 3 for Teoscar-Tapia-Cimber, Year 2 for Vlad-Biggio-Jansen-Zimmer-Mayza-Richards, Year 1 for Bo-Collins-Espinal-Banda. Obvious cut options are Tapia, Zimmer, Richards, Collins, Banda. Killer deals are Teoscar, Vlad, Bo and if he keeps going well Biggio. Espinal could get a big deal too. No 1 year guys will get $10+ (Vlad got $7.9 after a near MVP year), so worst case I see is $20 for each for Vlad & Teoscar, $10 for Biggio, Jansen, $5+ for Bo, Espinal the rest being 'meh'. $70 mil as a high option. Added to the $119 puts the Jays at $189 which would be a team record. After 2023 Ryu comes off the books ($20 mil), as does Chapman ($12.5), Teoscar, and Gurriel. That is where the challenge really hits - who do you keep, who do you let go. I fully expect Jansen to be traded this winter to cut the budget in an area of young cheap strength. Wouldn't be shocked to see an OF traded as well in an effort to get a younger, cheaper one out there.
Magpie - Thursday, July 07 2022 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#416920) #
in the end is the same language and a native speaker understands all.

I thought - well, Spanish has been in this hemisphere about as long as English. It's probably evolved in a similar way. My Ontario accent doesn't much resemble what you hear in Newfoundland or Alabama, but I don't think anyone has any trouble understanding one another. It's just the normal way separate communities develop distinct patterns of speech. I enjoyed reading that Spanish speakers in the west often think of Castilian Spanish as an old-fashioned, antiquated thing - it seems that we're a little more impressed by Received Pronunciation than they are. No lisping in New World Spanish. I did think Caribbean Spanish might be more different than the rest - all those communities on islands, which should increase the degree of local isolation.
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