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September baseball, kids! The highs are higher, the lows are lower. This is the good stuff.

I think that, for the most part, most players perform in September much the way they do the rest of the time. Some will get hot, some will choose this inopportune moment for a slump - but eventually, everyone should return to their proper level. If I told you that the best AL hitter in the month of September is Aaron Judge - because yes, he is - you wouldn't be very surprised. 

But there could be exceptions. There is, in fact, one prominent example that always comes to my mind at this time of year. On the one hand, we have Joe Morgan. Little Joe was one of the greatest players of my lifetime, an inner-circle Hall of Famer, one of the three best second baseman ever to walk the earth. On the other hand, we have Steve Garvey - certainly a good player, but not in Cooperstown, and while he's probably better than some of the Hall's first baseman, I wouldn't want to argue that he belongs there. Joe Morgan was a far greater player.

For the first five months of the season anyway, when Morgan hit .276/.399/.438 (OPS .837) compared to Garvey's .288/.323/.441 (OPS .764). Never mind Morgan's advantages in the field an on the basepaths.

But every year September came around, and every year Little Joe just seemed to wear down a bit while Garvey was choosing this moment to get hot. In his 490 career games in September, Morgan hit .250/.360/.379 (OPS .740), which is still decent production from your second baseman. But Garvey, in his 409 career games in September, was hitting .324/.363/.471 (OPS .834). One man got significantly better, and one got significantly worse. And don't even ask about October, which demonstrates the same effect taken to some wild extreme. In 55 post-season games, Garvey hit .338/.361/.550; in his 50 post-season games, Morgan hit .182/.323/.348.

So I thought I'd go over the AL contenders and see if anything similar could be found. I'm including just the six teams currently in a position to make the post-season, along with three teams still nursing an outside chance: Kansas City, Cleveland, and Texas. (Personally, I think Cleveland and Texas are kaput, el finito, it's all over, pack up the tent. I know, the Rangers are hot right now. But no Eovaldi, no Seager? That's a problem. However, I definitely think the Royals could give someone - like Seattle - a real scare before it's over.)

From those nine teams, I am looking only at those players who have actually played 100 games in September. I want a decent sample to look at. It means that Cal Raleigh doesn't make the cut, but that's show business. We're left with 37 players from the nine contenders, and here's what they've done:

       Player    Team    GPL   HR  RBI  BAVG   OBP   SLG    OPS
                                    
1    Judge    NYY    193   61  135  .275  .409  .610  1.019
2    Alvarez    HOU    125   32  83  .296  .395  .601    .996
3    Ramirez    CLE    286   47  161  .297  .372  .527    .899
4    Bichette    TOR    116   20   77  .323  .363  .526    .890
5    Seager    TEX    213   44  132  .285  .346  .518    .864
6    Story    BOS    177   36  103  .267  .331  .515    .846
7    Goldschmidt NYY    345   50  181  .271  .363  .476    .839
8    Springer    TOR    252   50  132  .279  .356  .482    .838
9    Bregman    BOS    214   39  133  .260  .356  .481    .838
10    Yastrzemski KCR    151   25  73  .256  .342  .488    .831

11    Stanton    NYY    285  72  183  .237  .328  .501    .830
12    Altuve    HOU    342  45  136  .298  .354  .475    .829
13    Pederson    TEX    240  37  85  .245  .345  .481    .826
14    Suarez    SEA    276  54  137  .266  .341  .483    .824
15    Correa    HOU    209  32  118  .285  .351  .465    .816
16    Semien    TEX    315  65  185  .259  .329  .486    .815
17    Torres    DET    165  24  96  .283  .351  .461    .812
18    Guerrero    TOR    159  27  87  .267  .337  .456    .793
19    Perez    KCR    308  53  201  .283  .318  .471    .790
20    Grichuk    KCR    263  48  125  .252  .290  .500    .790

21    Bellinger  YYY    202  29  112  .253  .334  .442    .776
22    Gimenez    TOR    125   14  51  .284  .342  .433    .775
23    Arozarena   SEA    139   16  61  .247  .336  .438    .774
24    Dubon    HOU    125   11  42  .288  .330  .440    .769
25    Lowe    BOS    158   22  70  .252  .350  .414    .763
26    Tellez    TEX    131   21  57  .235  .299  .457    .756
27    Walker    HOU    191   30  91  .233  .305  .441    .746
28    Polanco    SEA    198   29  101  .255  .314  .427    .740
29    Baez    DET    243   27  93  .261  .316  .417    .734
30    Naylor    SEA    123   10  52  .260  .331  .399    .730

31    Garcia    TEX    116   19  66  .223  .283  .444    .727
32    Varsho    TOR    113   19  51  .225  .285  .439    .724
33    Crawford    SEA    182   14  82  .241  .345  .370    .715
34    McMahon    NYY    176   23  56  .214  .289  .388    .677
35    Chisholm    NYY    100   13  41  .224  .283  .392    .675
36    Grisham    NYY    130   10  53  .213  .309  .355    .664
37    Santander  TOR    135   26  74  .206  .265  .398    .663
We already knew Aaron Judge was the best hitter in the American League, of course. What we really wanted to know was whose performance changes most when September rolls around. That list looks a little different. Judge moves down to the middle of the pack with people like Jose Altuve and Carlos Correa. These players seem to have no idea what month it is. Perhaps they can't even read a calendar. 

                             APRIL-AUGUST                    SEPTEMBER                  OPS
                    BAVG   OBP   SLG    OPS       BAVG  OBP  SLG    OPS        Change
                                                            
1    Dubon        HOU   .252  .288   364    .652      .288  .330  .440    .769        .117
2    Bichette     TOR   .287  .330   456    .786      .323  .363  .526    .890        .104
3    Gimenez      TOR   .249  .315   376    .690      .284  .342  .433    .775        .085
4    Semien       TEX   .252  .320   423    .742      .259  .329  .486    .815        .073
5    Yastrzemski  KCR   .235  .320   440    .760      .256  .342  .488    .831        .071
6    Ramirez      CLE   .276  .349   499    .847      .297  .372  .527    .899        .052
7    Torres       DET   .261  .334   431    .765      .283  .351  .461    .812        .047
8    Alvarez      HOU   .294  .387   567    .954      .296  .395  .601    .996        .042
9    Perez        KCR   .262  .299   455    .754      .283  .318  .471    .790        .036
10    Suarez       SEA  .244  .327   461    .788      .266  .341  .483    .824        .036
11    Story        BOS   .263  .328   487    .815      .267  .331  .515    .846        .031
12    Pederson     TEX   .236  .338   458    .796      .245  .345  .481    .826        .030
13    Grichuk      KCR   .251  .301   459    .760      .252  .290  .500    .790        .030
14    Tellez       TEX   .233  .300   433    .734      .235  .299  .457    .756        .022
15    Crawford     SEA   .249  .339   366    .705      .241  .345  .370    .715        .010

16    Baez        DET   .250  .288   438    .726      .261  .316  .417    .734        .008
17    Varsho      TOR   .225  .297   424    .721      .225  .285  .439    .724        .003
18    Altuve      HOU   .305  .363   465    .828      .298  .354  .475    .829        .001
19    Judge        NYY   .295  .409   612  1.021      .275  .409  .610  1.019       -.002
20    Correa      HOU   .274  .353   466    .819      .285  .351  .465    .816       -.003
21    Seager      TEX   .289  .365   508    .872      .285  .346  .518    .864       -.008
22    Arozarena    SEA   .251  .346   437    .783      .247  .336  .438    .774       -.009
23    Springer    TOR   .233  .375   472    .847      .279  .356  .482    .838       -.009
24    Lowe        BOS   .266  .346   427    .773      .252  .350  .414    .763       -.010

15    Garcia      TEX   .240  .296   445    .741      .223  .283  .444    .727       -.014
26    Bregman      BOS   .277  .369   486    .855      .260  .356  .481    .838       -.017
27    Polanco      SEA   .263  .332   439    .772      .255  .314  .427    .740       -.032
28    Walker      HOU   .251  .331   457    .788      .233  .305  .441    .746       -.042
29    Naylor      SEA   .268  .327   454    .781      .260  .331  .399    .730       -.051
30    Bellinger    NYY   .263  .334   494    .828      .253  .334  .442    .776       -.052
31    Goldschmidt  NYY   .292  .381   512    .893      .271  .363  .476    .839       -.054
32    Stanton      NYY   .263  .350   534    .884      .237  .328  .501    .830       -.054
33    Grisham      NYY   .220  .322   407    .729      .213  .309  .355    .664       -.065
34    McMahon      NYY   .244  .328   423    .752      .214  .289  .388    .677       -.075
35    Guerrero    TOR   .293  .372   507    .880      .267  .337  .456    .793       -.087
36    Chisholm    NYY   .252  .323   466    .789      .224  .283  .392    .675       -.114
37    Santander    TOR   .249  .313   472    .785      .206  .265  .398    .663       -.122


Hmm. Perhaps there's no pressing need for Anthony Santander to hurry back into action. But does it mean we should expect Bo Bichette to heat up and lead the offense, while Guerrero scuffles? Of course not! While Bichette has generally been a good September hitter (especially in 2022 - .406/.444/.662), the last time the Blue Jays played September games that mattered, in 2023,  he struggled to get his bat going (you will recall he was trying to come back from a knee injury.) And Guerrero has been up and down - he was simply brutal in 2019, very good in 2021, and then pretty bad in 2022. He's basically been his normal self the last two seasons. 

Hey, I wanted to find out!

****************************

Obviously, the Jays haven't faced the Cincinnati Reds very often. This is just their fifth ever visit  to Cincinnati, and yet - one of those treks to south-western Ohio gave us one of the more memorable games of the millennium. I remember it vividly and I wasn't even watching. 

It was a Friday night in June 2014. I was downtown in Dundas Square, where St Vincent was doing a free show to promote her eponymous fourth album. Liam Hendriks was the Blue Jays starter, and the Reds beat him senseless. It was 8-0 after two innings, which would have been roughly when I headed for the subway. The baseball might suck, but Annie's guitar playing would surely make up for that. 

Well, Annie was great, and she was also really weird. Which was also cool. Still, I found myself distracted by a large video screen across the way. It was showing the baseball game. And the Jays seemed to be creeping back into it. After six, the Jays were trailing 9-5; an inning later they had scored another three runs, and in the eighth inning they tied it up. They had been trailing by eight! It was all over! How did this happen? I had no idea.

Anyway, Cincinnati sent their closer out to work the ninth. It was that same fellow who's now closing games for the Red Sox. And after a couple of hits, a couple of walks, the Jays somehow had an 11-9 lead. Chapman got the hook, and Edwin Encarnacion - in the lineup for a game in Cincinnati for the first time since the Reds traded him away back in 2009 - greeted the new guy with a three run homer. Casey Janssen closed the 14-9 final. 

You don't forget a game like that! I'll bet some of you remember it your own selves. And St Vincent was fabulous. A memorable night.

Matchups

Mon 1 Sep - Bassitt (11-7, 4.14) vs Greene (5-4, 2.81)
Tue 2 Sep - Berrios (9-5, 3.95) vs Lodolo (8-7, 3.22)
Wed 3 Sep - Bieber (1-1, 2.38) vs Littell (9-8, 3.63)
Toronto at Cincinnati, September 1-3 | 255 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#467275) #
Great read, magpie!

uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#467276) #


TIL that Schneider has been the 2nd best jays hitter vRHP this year.

I'm a bit perplexed by the Tate callup - he has a decent era in AAA but all the other numbers are mediocre to poor, including any recent trends. He also has a long history of being useless vLHH so it seems he's coming up as a roogy - except that seems to me to be the last thing this pen needs.

Meanwhile, both Fisher and Fluharty have been great in AAA.


I'm glad to see the 5 man rotation return - except that the time we may have needed a 6 man rotation was a couple weeks from now. Imo they really messed this situation up. Hopefully everyone gets back into rhythm now.

I also get some heeby jeebies with yet another glove only player on the roster in IKF. I'm not sure what the benefits of having more pinch hitters is if the pinch hitters can't hit.


August felt tough but in the end the jays finished 15-12 aka a 90 win pace so still playoffs worthy.

Ironically, August was the best run differential month of the season, so for the run diff people this was actually a very good month.

92-93 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#467277) #
Kiner-Falefa is a solid addition to the roster, and really opens up Schneider's mid-game options in a way that Loperfido would not have. It would be different if the Jays were a basestealing team and that was Joey's jam, but alas.

Tate, Lucas, and Lauer are the only fresh arms for today's ballgame, so it would really help the team's outlook if the offense showed up today so they could stay away from the high leverage arms. Dominguez and Hoffman could well be down after pitching in two straight. Nance, Varland, Rodriguez, and Little would each be going for the 3rd time in 4 days if they pitch today.

It's good for business that the Yankees are playing in Houston their next 3 games, because the Jays really need to keep this 3 game lead before rolling into New York this weekend. That would afford them some wiggle room to lose that series and still leave town with a 2 game lead and the tiebreaker. It would be huge to pull off a win against the Reds' ace this afternoon.
92-93 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#467278) #
Neither Fisher nor Fluharty are eligible to be recalled. They will no doubt be back, presumably for Lucas and Tate, once they are eligible.

If the Jays go 13-12 the rest of the way, the Yankees would need to go 17-8 to win the division.
Magpie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#467280) #
I'm glad to see the 5 man rotation return

One of the factors, one would think (or hope) is this: who of these six starters seems best equipped to pitching out of the bullpen? One obvious answer is Eric Lauer - not only is he the only one who's ever done the job, he's done it very well indeed (this year, Lauer is 6-2, 3.77 as a starter, which is wonderful. But he's 2-0, 0.96 as a reliever.)

All other things being equal, should it ever seem appropriate to cut back to four starters, I suspect it will be Bassitt who goes to the pen. None of the other guys have any track record as relievers, but Schneider once said that "Chris does weird well." And this would be weird for any of them.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#467281) #
Fisher was optioned Aug 20. 12 days ago.

I thought it was a 10 day minimum.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#467282) #
Maybe it was Aug 21 but that would still make today day 11.
Magpie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#467283) #
I thought it was a 10 day minimum.

I believe it's 10 days for position players, 15 days for pitchers.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#467284) #
ah ok. thanks.
pooks137 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#467285) #
I really have no recollection of Liam Hendriks, Blue Jays SP. Though I do remember Hendriks on the team.

Turns out Liam's 1st stint with the Jays in 2014 was a sum total of 3 starts with an ERA north of 6. Then he was traded at the deadline along with Erik Kratz for Danny Valencia.

Hendriks would return the next year in exchange for yet another Jays Catcher of the Future Santiago Nessy. The 2.0 version of Hendriks would become the reliever we all know for the next decade.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#467286) #
Really sucks that vladdy got injured right when he had heated up right back up to super elite level.

Gonna be hard to keep 1st place if vladdy can't get sorted soon.
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#467287) #
Keep the score close, win it in the late innings.
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#467288) #
3-3 Cleveland-Boston going into the bottom of the third inning. Advantage Boston, but Cleveland has forced Bello to throw 70 pitches through 3IP. Maybe the Blue Jays will get lucky again on the out-of-town scoreboard.
electric carrot - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#467289) #
I know it won't happen but I actually think Ned Flanders pinch-hitting here for Lukes is statistically the best move.
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#467290) #
No idea why Bassitt was out there in the 7th.
Glevin - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#467291) #
I know it won't happen but I actually think Ned Flanders pinch-hitting here for Lukes is statistically the best move."

Pinch hitting for Clement made more sense. If you're going to roster IKF, that's where it makes sense to use him. Clement has a 66 WRC+ vs RHP, Schneider has a 148. You then can use IKF defensively if you take the lead.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#467292) #
or just start Schneider every day, since he might just be one of our best hitters, period.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#467293) #
especially since our apparently permanent #2 hitter probably doesn't deserve to be in the lineup.
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#467294) #
Frustrating 7th and 8th innings for the Blue Jays. Clement and Gimenez hitting when there were stronger bats on the bench. Barger taking the first pitch: an almost middle-middle FB from a FB pitcher. Springer not running with the struggling Barger at the plate and Barger eventually grounding into a DP.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#467295) #
No homers in 4 straight games is a killer.
Glevin - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#467296) #
Barger has been awful for over a month. Not saying he should never play but when he does, it should be low in the lineup until he gets going again.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#467297) #
BO
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#467298) #
Sign that man yesterday.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#467299) #
Nance closing?

why not - this bullpen is built to be interchangeable. impossible to put a hierarchy on this collection of arms.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#467300) #
Bo's 131wrc+ is the best mark of his career other than his ~200pa rookie stint.
Glevin - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#467301) #
I dig the long ball. Bo really carrying the offense since Vladdy went down.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#467302) #
huh. Hoffman coulda done that.
jjdynomite - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#467303) #
What can you say about the Jays relief corps when we’re waiting with bated breath for Fisher to get called up.
Katie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#467304) #
If you're going to let Nance close, at least let him work out of his own jam and don't go to the reliever who has struggled the last month in order to get a platoon advantage against TJ Friendly.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#467305) #
some heavy heavy beats at this ballpark.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#467306) #
ouch.

we have a problem.
Glevin - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#467307) #
Hard to win when you have the worst bullpen in baseball.
Katie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#467308) #
Little blowing the game was the most predictable thing I've seen in ages.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#467309) #
Some super frustrating losses lately.
BlueJayWay - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#467310) #
Could have been one of the best games of the year and it turned into perhaps the worst loss.
SK in NJ - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#467311) #
I don't think Schneider was necessarily wrong going to a lefty there, but Little hasn't been good for a couple of months now. The league has caught on. In that case he should have ignored the splits and gone with the pitcher who was doing significantly better recently. If Little is a high leverage reliever down the stretch and into the post season, then this team has no shot. He's been walking near 8 batters per 9 over the last 3 months. That doesn't work.
The_Game - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#467312) #
Who could have expected that this front office optioning their best RP all season for no reason at all during a pennant race would completely backfire on them?

This is what happens at this level when other factors take priority over winning games.
uglyone - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#467313) #
I didn't hate the Fisher demotion at the time, but that's cuz i am very stupid.

I agree - lately they've been getting way too cute with their decision making, and not keeping winning as their clear #1 priority, and that attitude trickles down.
SK in NJ - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#467314) #
They demoted one of their best relievers (Fisher), sent their best performing starter to the bullpen (Lauer), and demoted Loperfido (0.7 WAR, 159 wRC+) to the minors for Ty France. The signals the Jays are sending are definitely all over the place, between unwavering support for players who haven't been good for a while (ex. Little) to demoting high performing players for ones who haven't performed in years (France), and so on. Louis Varland gets high leverage opportunities in perpetuity while Fisher couldn't get a high leverage opportunity if he was the only reliever left in the pen. On top of that, they had a great opportunity to possibly increase the team's upside in the pen by bringing up Yesavage but chose not to. Not even saying Yesavage would have done well, but those are the types of gambles you take when the pen is performing this poorly.

Very odd. I'm not sure this team can hold on to the division with the pen performing like this but hopefully they turn things around soon.
Nigel - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#467315) #
The Chicken Little thing with the pen is odd in the sense that the pen has been one of the worst in baseball for the past 6 weeks. This is more of the same rather than something new. The Baseball Gods have a crappy way of making a point:(
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#467316) #
The team could have used Lauer in the ninth. Good chance he would have closed it out (experienced LHP, cool under pressure, throws strikes).
Petey Baseball - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#467317) #
Yeah I said to myself at the time, why are they going to Little here. It honestly feels he's pitched in every game this year. Nance should have had the chance to get the last two outs.
Glevin - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#467318) #
The bullpen is very frustrating but it's hard for me to get mad at Schneider because everyone sucks. What can you do? Best bet is probably just hoping guys get some mojo back. Hitting Barger 2nd is much worse because it makes no sense and Jays have alternatives. Also, I can think of three different occasions where Jays haven't put someone on IL who deserved it and it backfired. Santander, Gimenez (clearly still hurt which likely led to another injury), and Vlad who Jays should have put on IL and who they kept on bench for a week and has been awful since. For some reason, they seem very hesitant to just put guys on IL.
SK in NJ - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#467319) #
Little per month:

Since JUN: 32.1 IP, 4.45 ERA, 3.31 FIP, 7.2 BB/9, 12.2 K/9
Since JUL: 20.1 IP, 4.87 ERA, 3.76 FIP, 7.5 BB/9, 12.0 K/9
Since AUG: 10.1 IP, 5.23 ERA, 4.29 FIP, 7.8 BB/9, 7.8 K/9

You're not going to be an effective high leverage reliever with that walk rate, I don't care how many K's you get along with it. I find it baffling that Little is getting this much rope. He has no track record prior to this season so they essentially have unwavering faith in him based on the first couple of months in 2025. Having that type of faith in Hoffman turning things around is a lot more logical.

But ultimately, Schneider has to use the RP's he has, and if they are struggling, then he just has to hope for the best. This was likely the year they needed to make a trade for someone like Duran, even though spending big (trade-wise) on a reliever is risky. Not going that extra mile in a season that will be difficult to duplicate next season and beyond might come back to bite them.
Nigel - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#467320) #
Little was always going to tank as soon as hitters committed to just sitting with their bat on their shoulders. He just throws so few pitches in the zone.

I agree that it’s hard to criticize Schneider’s current bullpen management. There are few good options. When Fisher and Fluharty come back up things will improve. I’m the interim, he’s got to fight the urge to over manage the pen.
dalimon5 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#467321) #
Little sucks now as league has adjusted.

Schneider doesn't have many options.

That's the consensus. What's happening to the Jays bullpen now already happened to the NYY early last month. I think (hope) the bullpen recovers but I agree Little won't be a key part of it.

Varland looked very good last time out, different. Hoffman seems to know what was causing his issue. Rodriguez has some velocity back. Those are the positives we are working with. Fischer isn't the answer he's just a better piece than Little at this point.

Interesting ideas with Barger at number 2 in the line up and Schneider, Davis a possibility to go there while the Jays wait for Santander who is...starting to play in rehab games Friday? Is this accurate?


greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#467322) #
There are 172 position players in the AL with 170+ PA in 2025. Davis Schneider has the 9th-best wRC+ among that group, just ahead of Roman Anthony and Guerrero Jr.

One question is how much of that stellar performance is the team using him in favourable pitching matchups. I'm not sure how well he would have done against, say, Hunter Greene in today's game (although he might have performed well against the bullpen arms Cincy ran out there).

I hope he plays a lot for the Blue Jays in September. He's had some huge games for the team this year.
Magpie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#467323) #
The highs are higher, the lows are lower.

I forgot to mention - it's way, way, WAY more stressful to be in first place, a couple of games ahead of everyone. When you're trying to catch the leaders, every day fills you with hope. Maybe today the team can gain some ground. But when you're on top, all you have is dread, the fear that it will surely get worse. It often leads to panic, hysteria, and occasionally some truly silly things come out of our mouths.

Just trying to share the benefits of my experience! This ain't my first rodeo.
greenfrog - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#467324) #
when you're on top, all you have is dread, the fear that it will surely get worse. It often leads to panic, hysteria, and occasionally some truly silly things come out of our mouths

This could only have been written by a Bauxite who lived through (and was scarred by) the last week of the 1987 season.
John Northey - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#467325) #
Checking Little's stats, in his 66 games he has given up a walk 11 times with 13 hits allowed (1 HR, 2 doubles) including today. He is not a guy you want coming in with runners on. Although his high leverage stats are strong (183/274/237 - 46 sOPS+) his medium leverage isn't so go (117 sOPS+). So using him to start an inning in high leverage situations makes sense, using him mid-inning in a medium does not.

Was expecting those stats to be a lot worse than they are. He looks strong based on them. sOPS+ by month is 83-25-53-107-77 (it'll be ugly for September based on 1 game). July his only month that went poorly based on that stat. But those walks - oh those walks. 6 BB/9 IP (0 IP 0 BB today). If ML hitters know you can't find the strike zone they'll sit on a certain pitch and get to you.

Note: His 66 games leads the AL. 2 guys from Cincinnati have pitched in more, with Tyler Rogers (SFG/NYM) having been in the most at 68 (contact guy with 1.6 BB/9 and 6.6 K/9 lifetime - 0.7 5.9 this year). He is unlikely to come close to the Jays record of 89 (Eichhorn '87), needs 77 to reach the top 10 for pitcher appearances in a season by a Jay. Scott Downs has the record for a LHP here at 81 in 2007.
John Northey - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#467326) #
Crap - just noticed I didn't mention that those initial stats were first batter - so in 66 PA that is 11 walks and 13 hits - 24 times reaching base = 363 OBP for first batters facing Little.
Magpie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#467327) #
a Bauxite who lived through (and was scarred by) the last week of the 1987 season.

Oh, I've got scars on top of scars. From a 3 games to 1 lead in the 1985 ALCS to an 8-1 lead against the Mariners in 2022. I feel we should be sitting around a table like the guys in Jaws and explaining where each one came from.

Speaking of the 1983 bullpen (there's another painful story!), Randy Moffitt passed away this week. A nice career, and he did a decent job here. For a few months, anyway.
dalimon5 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#467328) #
"One question is how much of that stellar performance is the team using him in favourable pitching matchups."


I think the answer is "almost all of it." Imagine if Vlad only played in the most favourable match ups for him.
Magpie - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#467329) #
Nigel has been saying for a while that Little is basically a con man, and sooner or later the hitters will figure out the con. I agree, and I note that this is exactly what I used to say about Trevor Richards. But Richards' con was all about destroying the batter's timing, which is one of the game's fundamentals. I think you can get away with that a little longer than what Little is trying to do - trick the hitter into swinging at a ball.

I keep saying that Little is our very own Mitch Williams. Like Mitch, he strikes out considerably more batters than the average pitcher. Like Mitch, he gives up very few hits. Like Mitch, it's almost impossible to take him deep (I know, I was there!) And like Mitch, he walks 6 guys per 9 innings.

Mitch did pitch in the big leagues for ten years, he saved a bunch of games. But even so....
92-93 - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#467330) #
Good thing they used Hoffman in a 4-run lead yesterday to get him back on track. Sigh.
Nigel - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#467331) #
Funnily enough, I’m fairly optimistic about Little’s long term utility. The swing and miss on his stuff is useful. I just think his long term role is more likely in a medium leverage role where his total inability to throw strikes with any regularity is less relevant. Fisher is their current best bet to face tough LH’s.
SK in NJ - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#467332) #
Agreed about Little. Batters were eventually going to adjust and not swing as much, and it has shown in his walk rates the last 3 months. The bigger issue is that the team continues to view him as a high leverage reliever and will continue to do so through the regular season and playoffs. He doesn’t have the track record for that level of faith, and it’s undoubtedly going to hurt them as it did today.

I just want there to be some consistency from the org. Fisher put up great numbers and was demoted. Lauer was the best SP on the team from the time he become an official rotation guy to the time Bieber showed up, yet pitched once since where he had like 10 days of rest, and that was it. Much like Davis Schneider, it’s like they have an opinion of a player (good or bad) and that determines the usage rather than the actual results. Clement playing everyday is the prime example of this, while every other non core player on the team is subject to platoon usage.

The bullpen is by far the most volatile part of a team so to not adjust based on results, and instead just keep going to your favorites regardless of performance is insane to me. That’s the one spot where recency bias should factor in, at least a little bit. They could have easily kept Nance in the game today but he’s not in the team’s circle of trust so they preferred over managing. It’s not a good way to maximize performance over 162.
John Northey - Monday, September 01 2025 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#467333) #
The problem with relievers is they are so variable. One bad game can make their stats look terrible - Nance gave up two times as many runs today as he had all year for example. I agree the hook on him was too quick, but maybe the coaches see stuff we don't - arm angle, confidence, etc. that are telling for when a guy is not going to make it through an inning. Stuff you can't see in the bullpen.

I'd rather go by how the player has done overall - Little has been far more effective than I though, and than most of us have though (stats are up a few comments). His wildness drives us all nuts, and I'm sure has cost John Schneider a few years of life due to the stress. Unlike Mitch Williams he isn't the be-all and end-all of our pen.

A few guys every year have 'wow' seasons like Nance has had to date, but often go back to being pumpkins the next year. Remember, Nance wasn't even drafted, his first team lost him on waivers, given free agency despite fewer than 2 years of service time, signed by SD, who sold him for cash to the Jays. Jays took him off the 40 man and no one claimed him, thus he pitched in AAA despite no options left. Odds are this is just an illusion and he'll go back to being an 8th/9th guy again. If not, then he'll be a great find, but I wouldn't bet on it.

For examples from the past - 1985: Tom Filer 7-0 as a starter 110 ERA+, then 2 more years in the minors, actually was decent when given a shot (96 ERA+ after that season) but wasn't up much for anyone. 1989: Mauro Gozzo - was a legend for a bit, won his first 4 games in the majors (1.23 ERA over 22 IP) but wasn't trusted so was tossed into long relief and had a 13.03 ERA over 9 2/3 IP the rest of the season. Just a 77 ERA+ the rest of his career. 2016 Joe Biagini a rule 5 draft pick, had a 140 ERA+ out of the pen here, but just an 80 ERA+ the rest of his career. 2022 Max Castillo got hearts fluttering here with his 129 ERA+ over 20 2/3 IP before being traded (for Whit Merrifield, sent with Samad Taylor as well who has a 49 OPS+ lifetime over 83 PA), lifetime 77 ERA+ now and pitches only in Mexico (9.24 ERA this year in 17 games, 16 starts). 2023: Jay Jackson a 204 ERA+ over 29 2/3 IP then let go which many thought was a poor choice. just 26 1/3 IP for him after that with a 56 ERA+ though (glad he pocketed $1.5 mil from that though).
John Northey - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#467334) #
Right now the Jays are 2 1/2 over the Yankees and Red Sox. Over 10 games over the Rays & O's. A few months ago we'd all have been super-happy to hear that. Now our expectations have climbed (appropriately). Still, lets enjoy the fact they are in 1st with a 2+ game lead. Something no September has had since 1993 outside of 2015.
vw_fan17 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 01:31 AM EDT (#467335) #
Can IKF pitch? Can't hurt at the moment..
slitheringslider - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 01:56 AM EDT (#467336) #
All these bullpen blown games made me look at some fangraphs player pages for relievers from past eras, some of the WAR accumulated is pretty wild. I was too young to watch Henke and Ward pitch but the number of 2-4 WAR seasons they accumulated as relievers are insane. I don't know how much of it is due to how relievers are used back in the day vs now and how useful a tool WAR is in measuring relievers. What a treat it would be to have Mariano Rivera who somehow managed to accumulate almost 40WAR pitching 70 innings a year.

Jays really haven't had much success developing/trading for relievers in recent memory. Since the turn of the century, Jays relievers are ranked 23rd in fWAR. Top 3 are Yankees, Dodgers, and Guardians, no surprises there.

Robert Osuna is quite easily our best reliever in the past quarter century and was on the Henke/Ward trajectory before proving himself to be a scumbag. To round out the top 10 in fWAR are a bunch of guys who you would want in your bullpen but for the most part are just guys. Jason Frasor, Casey Janssen, Scott Downs, Brett Cecil, Jordan Romano, Aaron Loup, BJ Ryan, Yimi Garcia and Tim Mayza rounds out the top 10. These are good pitchers but there has to be something fundamentally broken with the way this organization develop relievers when Jason Frasor is your 2nd most valuable reliever of the past quarter century. I'm not a Shapiro/Atkins hater in general but their track record with relievers have been abysmal, they basically have not developed a reliever of note outside of Jordan Romano.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:06 AM EDT (#467337) #
That's very interesting and concerning at the same time. I wouldn't put much effort into relief pitching because there's too much volatility there, but when you look at a big sample size like that it becomes alarming.

I'm surprised the Rays weren't listed but then it makes sense since they started the "specialty" pitcher trend where you use 4-6 pitchers for the last 3 innings.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:04 AM EDT (#467338) #
Honestly I think it’s time they have a real conversation about replacing Pete Walker. Say what you want about the importance of pitching/hitting coaches, but the change the Jays made this winter with hitting (Popkins) basically saved the entire front office. Walker pre dates Shapiro/Atkins and there’s a massive sample size there to suggest that the team cannot develop starters or relievers under his watch. A change is probably long overdue.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#467339) #
Robert Osuna is quite easily our best reliever in the past quarter century

Scott Downs was better than Osuna.

The Jays best relievers vhave generally been guys who a) came over from some other organization, and b) had washed out as starters. That describes Henke and Ward; it also describes Paul Quantrill and Downs. Osuna, Romano, Billy Koch, and Mike Timlin would be the most notable home-grown relievers.

And I suspect that's probably not too abnormal. I don't think teams develop relievers very often- they're more likely to just stumble over them. I can't think of too many relievers the Yankees have developed, besides Rivera (another failed starter.) David Robertson? Who have the Red Sox come up with, besides Papelbon?
Katie - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#467340) #
Glevin, you say everyone sucks, but that isn't true.

Nance hasn't sucked for a month. His ERA was under 1, but his FIP was under 2.

He's a ground-ball pitcher who has allowed two ground-ball singles and had one out. Pulling him for an ineffective reliever made no sense, unless you continue to either or both of believe the early season Little is back or you don't trust Nance at all.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#467341) #
Schneider said after the game that he wanted to keep it short with Nance, who had worked the day before.
Ryan Day - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#467342) #
Little was always going to tank as soon as hitters committed to just sitting with their bat on their shoulders.

I think this is overly simplistic: MLB hitters are very good, scouting reports are very good, and guys who just can't throw strikes get beaten back to AAA in a week or two. Little was solid last year and incredible in the first half of this year, so it's not just a trick.

That said - he's throwing the knuckle curve 47% of the time, which is maybe just too much. And his sinker has deteriorated, so he doesn't have anything to keep batters honest with.

He needs to either be able to put the knuckle curve in the zone occasionally(doubtful!), or throw something else hitters might reasonably expect to be a strike.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#467343) #
Pete Walker is good. Keep him around. Sometimes you have to lose something good to realize it.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#467344) #
Magpie - that makes a lot of sense, that Schneider felt Nance only had 3 batters in him. Logically I get why you'd bring in Little next, but despite the stats I just don't trust the guy. Maybe I've watched on TV when he blows up too often or something. I remember feeling like that about Henke in 1991 for some reason, early season struggles iirc, which is why it is best fans aren't the ones making decisions. Emotions need to be removed and actual results matter most.

Checking pens in the Shapiro/Atkins era (2016-now) the Jays are 24th in reliever fWAR, going by the 'this is their team' era (2019-now) it is 26th. So basically they have not done a good job with the pen based on that stat. 123 relievers used from 2019 to now, from Romero (3.8) to Pop (-0.7). Given a solid reliever can have 1-2 WAR in a single season that is very not impressive.

Generally the best relievers are failed starters who failed due to endurance or lack of secondary pitches. See Henke, Ward, Osuna (well, he was more shifted due to necessity), etc. Romero was a starter in the minors too. No idea which guys in the minors right now might fit that description, but the Jays need to figure it out rather than continuing the junk pile reclamation projects.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#467345) #
I agree that it isn't just a trick. That's why I said that I'm optimistic that there's probably a useful middle reliever in there somewhere. Someone who can give you a 2BB and 2K, 32 pitch, inning every couple of days (sort of joking, sort of not). What is a trick, and what differentiates Little from the guys who just can't throw strikes, is that his pitches (both sinker and knuckle curve) look like strikes half way to the plate but generally aren't. For all of the great advance scouting in the world I think major league hitters need to see it from the batters box to believe it before the need to lay off sinks in. But the swing and miss is too good for him to be functionally useless.
pooks137 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#467346) #
I'm not a Shapiro/Atkins hater in general but their track record with relievers have been abysmal, they basically have not developed a reliever of note outside of Jordan Romano.

Walker pre dates Shapiro/Atkins and there’s a massive sample size there to suggest that the team cannot develop starters or relievers under his watch. A change is probably long overdue.

Kind of surprised the Jays are bottom of the league in reliever WAR/developing relievers during the Atkins tenure & particularly since Vlad/Bo debuted. They haven't even necessarily gone cheap on the bullpen to save budget room like some of their predecessors. They went out on the FA market and spent sizable sums on guys like Chad Green, Yimi Garcia, Jeff Hoffman, etc.

I return to my old canard though that I don't hold Pete Walker or the MLB staff particularly responsible, namely because I don't believe much development actually occurs at the MLB level.

They play too many games, have too few off days, travel too much, the MLB season is too long. There's not much time for any coaching, tinkering, overhauls, practice, etc. for the everyday players and the relievers (there's probably more of an opportunity for SP in the 5-man rotation. But also not much leeway to experiment with changes during MLB starts because the league is ruthless in punishing mistakes). The MLB grind is more about attrition than growth.

So if the Jays have failed over the last 5-10 years in even developing a league average bullpen with internal promotions, it really falls on the amateur scouting & minor league development staffs.

soupman - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#467347) #
Kikuchi has put up 4.6 rWAR since leaving Toronto a year ago. In 2.5 years under Walker he was basically an innings-eater that flashed potential to be more. Houston immediately unlocked that and he's continued to have success this year in Anaheim.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#467348) #
Rodriguez had thrown on Saturday and Sunday.  Nance had thrown Sunday.  Lauer needed work.

I would have brought out Lauer to start the 7th and let him pitch as long as he was effective.  Rodriguez, Nance and anyone else would have been back-up plans.  If the Manager had confidence in Rodriguez with a 2 run lead (if that was the situation entering the ninth), then that would have reasonable.

I am not suggesting that this would have worked better.  It might have.  But it would have resulted in a better distribution of work.  
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#467349) #
everything probably would have worked out better if the original Lauer move to the pen actually stuck, and he was actually used as a regular reliever since then, and not sat for 11 days and then put in to spot start.

anyways, hopefully now that he's supposedly officially a reliever again, he can demonstrate the ability to be used as our #1 high leverage lefty. fingers crossed.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#467350) #
Plausible Best Lineup


...using this year's stats only:

1. DH Springer 476pa, .328babip, .391obp, 157wrc+, 4.9war650
2. LF Schneider 174pa, .303babip, .368obp, 140wrc+, 4.9war650
3. 1B Guerrero 577pa, .307babip, .383obp, 138wrc+, 3.8war650
4. SS Bichette 608pa, .343babip, .354obp, 130wrc+, 3.7war650
5. CF Varsho 186pa, .220babip, .285obp, 129wrc+, 5.9war650
6. C Alejandro 431pa, 307babip, .360obp, 118wrc+, 5.7war650
7. 3B Barger 424pa, .296babip, .300obp, 106wrc+, 2.6war650
8. 2B Clement 506pa, .290babip, .308obp, 93wrc+, 3.0war650
9. RF Lukes 364pa, .273babip, .330obp, 105wrc+, 2.5war650

B. UT France 461pa, .302babip, .328obp, 96wrc+, 1.4war650
B. OF Straw 268pa, .314babip, .322obp, 96wrc+, 4.6war650
B. IF Gimenez 299pa, .239babip, .295obp, 76wrc+, 2.6war650
B. C Heineman 150pa, .370babip, .388obp, 139wrc+, 9.5war650

X. UT Santander 209pa, .218babip, .273obp, 62wrc+, -2.8war650
X. OF Loperfido 89pa, .473babip, .409obp, 159wrc+, 5.1war650
X. IF Falefa 428pa, .316babip, .300obp, 75wrc+, 1.1war650
X. C N/A



....using Fangraphs' Combined Depth Charts Projections:

1. DH Springer 91pa, .287babip, .343obp, 121wrc+, 2.9war650
2. SS Bichette 97pa, .329babip, .339obp, 121wrc+, 4.0war650
3. 1B Guerrero 101pa, .304babip, .378obp, 143wrc+, 3.9war650
4. RF Santander 35pa, .255babip, .312obp, 110wrc+, 1.9war650
5. C Alejandro 71pa, .295babip, .335obp, 117wrc+, 5.5war650
6. CF Varsho 86pa, .255babip, .295obp, 103wrc+, 3.0war650
7. LF Schneider 43pa, .285babip, .327obp, 108wrc+, 1.5war650
8. 3B Barger 73pa, .292babip, .309obp, 103wrc+, 2.7war650
9. 2B Gimenez 90pa, .289babip, .317obp, 96wrc+, 3.6war650

B. UT Lukes 75pa, .302babip, .336obp, 107wrc+, 2.6war650
B. OF Straw 24pa, .294babip, .305obp, 77wrc+, 0.0war650
B. IF Clement 44pa, .281babip, .304obp, 93wrc+, 3.0war650
B. C Heineman 25pa, .293babip, .325obp, 91wrc+, 2.6war650

B. UT France 33pa, .297babip, .329obp, 102wrc+, 0.0war650
B. OF Loperfido 23pa, .318babip, .392obp, 92wrc+, 0.0war650
B. IF Falefa 18pa, .303babip, .302obp, 80wrc+, 0.0war650
B. C Valenzuela 1pa, .262babip, .274obp, 63wrc+, 0.0war650
John Northey - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#467352) #
It is interesting that Schneider isn't used more (hitter that is - confusing to have a manager and player with the same last name). He has started just twice in the last 6 games (all vs RHP so I get it sorta). Meanwhile Clement started all 3 he was healthy for (Schneider started 2 of those injury games for Clement). But against RHP Schneider has a 147 wRC+, vs Clement's 64. So I don't really get it - Barger started all 6 of those games but when Clement is healthy he started in RF, not healthy starts at 3B. If there wasn't a good option I could see letting Clement start with that 64 wRC+, but there is a solid option - Barger (113 wRC+ vs RHP) at 3B, Schneider in LF, Lukes (103 wRC+ vs RHP) in RF. With the offense scuffling lately it would seem to make sense to go with extra offense over the defense for a few games at least.

FYI: Gimenez is at 89 wRC+ vs RHP this season. Now, maybe if you factor in 2024 I can see it, Schneider for 24/25 has a 103 wRC+ vs RHP over those 2 years, Clement 83. Far closer but that is ignoring the big improvement from Schneider this year and the drop vs RHP Clement has had.

The offseason will be fun after this solid season - do you resign Bo will be the big topic, but other stuff, like who starts at 3B, who gets to play RF/LF, will also be big. Safe to assume Santander will be in LF or RF in 2026 with Springer DH most of the time. That leaves one OF slot for everyone else (Lukes/Schneider/Barger/Straw/Loperfido/Schreck/etc.). With 2 slots opening potentially post 2026 (Varsho & Springer free agents) tough choices will need to be made. Some kids are low on options (Lukes has 1, Schneider 2 left, Loperfido has an option left for next year, but Clase-Orelvis Martinez-Leo Jimenez are all out of options). The choices will be difficult. Just like who gets to be here the rest of 2025 is (and who is on the playoff roster).
Gerry - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 03:27 PM EDT (#467353) #
The Reds starter for today, Nick Lodolo has been scratched due to illness. Likely will be a bullpen day for the Reds.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#467355) #
Stats as RP

(in order of Leverage Index when entering the game aka my best proxy for usage).


2025

RH Hoffman (32): 60gms, 1.79li, 0.96ip/gm, 123era-, 114fip-, 79xfip-, -0.4awar/65
LH Little (28): 66gms, 1.42li, 0.89ip/gm, 79era-, 67fip-, 78xfip-, 0.8awar/65
RH Dominguez (30): 58gms, 1.38li, 0.94ip/gm, 81era-, 82fip-, 91xfip-, 0.4awar/65
RH Varland (27): 64gms, 1.25li, 0.95ip/gm, 68era-, 75fip-, 73xfip-, 0.4awar/65
RH Rodriguez (28): 57gms, 1.07li, 1.12ip/gm, 73era-, 93fip- 103xfip-, 0.9awar/65
LH Fluharty (23): 51gms, 0.99li, 0.93ip/gm, 121era-, 102fip-, 106xfip-, -0.3awar/65
RH Fisher (24): 40gms, 0.88li, 0.93ip/gm, 47era-, 45fip-, 76xfip-, 1.7awar/65
RH Nance (34): 20gms, 0.84li, 1.12ip/gm, 39era-, 38fip-, 59xfip-, 1.6awar/65
LH Lauer (30): 6gms, 0.46li, 3.11ip/gm, 24era-, 60fip-, 103xfip-, 1.6awar/65

RH Sandlin (28): 19gms, 1.48li, 0.86ip/gm, 54era-, 108fip-, 116xfip-, 0.5awar/65
LH Borucki (31): 35gms, 1.05li, 0.88ip/gm, 123era-, 105fip-, 93xfip-, -0.4awar/65
LH Bruihl (27): 14gms, 0.69li, 0.91ip/gm, 139era-, 107fip-, 88xfip-, -0.7awar/65



3-year

RH Hoffman (32): 182gms, 1.55li, 0.97ip/gm, 76era-, 77fip-, 74xfip-, 1.1awar/65
RH Varland (27): 80gms, 1.27li, 1.13ip/gm, 98era-, 78fip-, 72xfip-, 0.8awar/65
RH Dominguez (30): 178gms, 1.26li, 0.92ip/gm, 92era-, 101fip-, 100xfip-, 0.2awar/65
LH Little (28): 115gms, 1.21li, 0.91ip/gm, 85era-, 90fip-, 82xfip-, 0.5awar/65
RH Rodriguez (28): 57gms, 1.07li, 1.12ip/gm, 73era-, 93fip-, 103xfip-, 0.9awar/65
LH Fluharty (23): 51gms, 0.99li, 0.93ip/gm, 121era-, 102fip-, 106xfip-, -0.3awar/65
RH Fisher (24): 40gms, 0.88li, 0.93ip/gm, 47era-, 45fip-, 76xfip-, 1.7awar/65
RH Nance (34): 40gms, 0.84li, 1.11ip/gm, 70era-, 67fip-, 78xfip-, 0.8awar/65
LH Lauer (30): 7gms, 0.43li, 3.43ip/gm, 36era-, 82fip-, 102xfip-, 1.2awar/65

RH Sandlin (28): 147gms, 1.21li, 0.91ip/gm, 87era-, 121fip-, 102xfip-, -0.1awar/65
LH Borucki (31): 85gms, 1.11li, 0.92ip/gm, 101era-, 97fip-, 93xfip-, 0.3awar/65
LH Bruihl (27): 48gms, 9.74li, 0.97ip/gm, 138era-, 99fip-, 102xfip-, -0.4awar/65




Fangraphs' Depth Charts Projections

RH Hoffman (32): 10gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.47era, 3.53fip, 1.3awar/65
RH Dominguez (30): 9gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.53era, 3.75fip, 0.7awar/65
RH Nance (34): 9gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.74era, 3.68fip, 0.7awar/65
RH Rodriguez (28): 9gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.07era, 4.13fip, 0.7awar/65
LH Little (28): 8gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.39era, 3.65fip, 0.4awar/65
RH Varland (27): 9gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.39era, 3.63fip, 0.4awar/65
LH Lauer (30): 9gms, 1.6ip/gm, 4.21era, 4.40fip, 0.4awar/65
RH Fisher (24): 7gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.94era, 4.05fip, 0.0awar/65
LH Fluharty (23): 8gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.16era, 4.28fip, 0.0awar/65

RH Yesavage (21): 1gms, 1.0ip/gm, 3.37era, 3.45fip, 0.0awar/65
RH Sandlin (28): 2gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.11era, 4.37fip, 0.0awar/65
LH Bruihl (27): 6gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.14era, 4.37fip, 0.0awar/65
LH Borucki (31): 1gms, 1.0ip/gm, 4.10era, 4.31xfip, 0.0awar/65




It's boring to say, but it sure seems like "stay the course" is the best option here.

If Sandlin or Yesavage pitch well enough to earn a shot then that's a bonus.

And Bruihl and Borucki are both reasonable depth options in case the other lefties all flop.


But I'd still say to try to ignore leverage as much as possible and use other matchup splits the basis of making most of the reliever decisions going forward. All these arms are pretty good, but not even one of them is a reliable high leverage guy.



Dewey - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#467356) #
The monetization of your ballpark experience continues apace. For a mere $19,880.00 per seat, you can now purchase a Home Plate Terrace Club Seat (including an immersive culinary experience -- of popcorn, nachos, and hot dogs among the offerings.) Ain’t corporate baseball grand? Well, maybe 20 grand.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#467357) #
"So I don't really get it"

Managers have players that they give preferential treatment to for no real statistical reason. Ernie Clement is that guy on this team, as has been discussed all season. He's right back to where he was last season (93 wRC+) with an xwOBA on par with 2024, except he's legitimately hurting the team when he plays against RHP, despite having the 4th most PA's on the team against them this season. Not only is he (or more specifically John Schneider) preventing Barger from playing 3B as often as possible, but is now preventing a red hot Davis Schneider from playing more regularly against RHP as well. A 2 WAR player over 550-600 plate appearances with a below average bat (and putrid bat against RHP) is not the type of player you want to see close to the top of your team in plate appearances. It's baffling that we're in September and it's still going on. Leads back to the discussion about not understanding some of the FO decisions (Fisher, etc), or at least not understanding what criteria they are using.

Then again, they just acquired IKF again for no real reason (after giving him $15M last winter), so Clement's profile might be something they just think is better than having a better bat in the lineup more often.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#467358) #
If you don't like corporate baseball, join the Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Club for $300. You get a front row seat at Christie Pits and tickets to every away game, among other goodies.

It was a heartbreaking loss in Game 5 to the Barrie Baycats last week to get bounced from the postseason after going up 2-1 in the series (and 3-2 in the game).
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#467359) #
I think you've kind of driven yourself nuts finding the worst possible splits to make Ernie look as bad as possible all year, tbh.


2nd Half vRHP

Clement: 117pa, 80wrc+
Barger 127pa, 78wrc+


and only one of these guys is getting played in the 2-hole most every game.


Nigel - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#467360) #
Jays' record when Ernie isn't in the starting lineup - 6-10
Jays' record when Ernie is in the starting lineup - 73-49

:)
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#467361) #
So what you’re saying is that John Schneider used the correct lineup 16 times this season? :)

This brings to mind the saying, would you rather be happy (have a first place team) or right (have an ideologically pure lineup).
Nigel - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#467362) #
I say this in all seriousness - I wasn't trying to say anything other than to poke a bit of fun at the continued Ernie meme. The idea that those records tell you anything about Ernie is funny.

I really only have two player usage issues that make me scratch my head - why on earth they insist on batting Barger 2nd and why Schneider isn't getting a few more ABs (at the expense of any or all of Ernie, Gimenez and Barger).
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#467363) #
Well, the 2015 Jays were 67-45 when Ryan Goins was in the starting lineup, and only 26-24 when he wasn't, so I guess the true difference makers can be hard to spot sometimes.

Seriously though, I'm not saying Ernie is a bad player. I don't think anyone has said that, but his playing time doesn't make sense, especially when there are internal options that are likely better, or at the very least present a different kind of upside. Barger actually grades out better at 3B than RF, Lukes grades out better in RF than in LF, and Schneider only seems to play LF nowadays, so it's not like Ernie's defense is putting everyone else in optimal positions. If anything, it's sub optimal for everyone else (at least based on 2025 defensive data) just to accommodate a rich man's IKF. Plus, from a sustainable contention standpoint, the Jays are much better off developing Barger at 3B and getting more PA's from Schneider than they are trying to squeeze a bit more defense at 3B.

I mean at this point it is what it is, we've had these discussions probably since April/May, so clearly nothing will change there. We just have to hope the Jays can win with whatever lineup Schneider/the FO seems to think is best.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#467364) #
Lodolo has been scratched from tonight's start due to illness. Scott Barlow to start. Let's see if the Blue Jays can take advantage (Lodolo is having a good season).
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#467365) #
The Jays were 20-10 with Clase in the starting lineup, so they clearly need him back too!

If Santander comes back, he may have a hard time holding off Clement for the lowest WPA on the team.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#467366) #
Isn't the Clase 20-10 record just a subset of the 73-49 record when Clement was in the starting lineup? In any event, the Clement sample size is much larger.

Clement does look tired and/or injured now, though. He may be wearing down as the season draws to a close (which is a different argument for scaling back his playing time).
Magpie - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#467367) #
why on earth they insist on batting Barger 2nd

I think Lukes is a better fit myself. I assume Schneider is hoping this will get Barger some better pitches to swing at, with Vlad up next. I don't think that ever matters all that much.
Nigel - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:19 PM EDT (#467368) #
While there is some power there, the top of the Jays' line-up is best suited to long sequence offence and Barger's second half form definitely doesn't jibe with that approach. Its a small thing but definitely something to watch.
Magpie - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#467370) #
Seotember Bichette is the best Bichette.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#467371) #
Excellent start. The bullpen could really use a Berrios-Lauer for all 9 innings game.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#467372) #
still think Schneider's a better fit in the 2 hole than even Lukes. Lukes has not been hitting great for a bit now.

it might cram some lefties together at the bottom of the order but that's where you use all the platoon bats.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#467373) #
Just before the season started, Jim Bowden said he thought Bo would rebound from his disastrous 2024 season and recommended the Blue Jays try to extend him for around $175m. Smart man (at least in this instance). Now it might take $300m+ to sign Bo. Maybe even $350m+.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#467374) #
don't think Bo was ever gonna sign for a huge discount, but no doubt the season has helped his negotiating position.

otoh - pay the man.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#467376) #
On April 10th, on this very site, I said "If Bo was a FA today, Springer's 6/150 contract adjusted for some inflation (6/180?) would be his floor, not an overpay." He was hitting .288/.348/.356.

Some Bauxites voiced their disagreement, and I'm sure many more felt the same way.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:48 PM EDT (#467377) #
not berry good, Jose.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#467378) #
I don't care how much Barger is struggling, there should be no justification to start IKF at 3B against a RHP if you want to win the division.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#467379) #
Sheesh, what a start for Berrios. Somehow Atkins and Schneider turned having an abundance (six) starting pitchers into a hot mess of dysfunction.

Tate stops the bleeding, for now.
James W - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#467380) #
May the Summer of George never end!
Nigel - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#467381) #
I probably wouldn't have IKF on the roster at all but if you are going to have him then a bullpen day isn't a bad time to start him. There are going to be both RH's and LH's in the game and definitely a chance to PH for him. This wasn't a start by a "regular" RH starter, for which, I agree, there wouldn't be a good excuse.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#467382) #
MLB wRC+ Leaders

1. Judge 196
2. Ohtani 166
3. Springer of George 162
4. Raleigh 156
5. Schwarber 155
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#467383) #
September of Springer! He is having close to an MVP-calibre offensive season. .305/.395/.552. Just like we all expected in spring training.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#467384) #
Springer's 2025 season has been magical. What a comeback.
electric carrot - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#467385) #
I have never seen a dead cat bounce as stark as Springer's. Anyone got a comp?
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#467389) #
Stanton's bouncing pretty high too.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#467391) #
these NL teams are scrappy
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#467392) #
7-7 Cleveland-Boston at the moment (in a Crochet start no less — he allowed 4 HR and 7 ER). High-scoring games tonight.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#467393) #
2 errors for Kinier "The Glove" Falefa
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#467394) #
Nice relaxing third out of the fifth inning for Lauer. A few feet from giving Cincinnati the lead. Wow.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#467395) #
Lauer doesn’t look good but maybe try and get him thru 1 more given the rest of the pen?
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#467396) #
I would try for another inning from Lauer, think he could settle in enough to get the job done.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#467397) #
Big out getting Elly to start the inning.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#467398) #
Finally get the first guy out...and we change pitchers. Playing with fire now.
Chuck - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#467399) #
I have never seen a dead cat bounce as stark as Springer's. Anyone got a comp?

Springer's OPS+ delta from last year was 60 coming into tonight's game, and surely is a good deal higher now.

After seasons of 77, 78 and 68, Tim Wallach produced a 127 at age 36, an increase of 59. He arguably should have been flushed out of MLB before even having that opportunity.

Chuck - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#467400) #
Aubrey Huff, OPS+ ages 31-33: 137, 81, 142. He was toast thereafter.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#467401) #
Returning to the comp I suggested a few weeks ago:

Varsho 17 HR in 190 PA (HR every 11.18 PA)

Raleigh 51 HR in 596 PA (HR every 11.69 PA)

They are two different players, but the power breakout for both players in 2025 is similar. Amazing production by Varsho this year.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#467402) #
Red Sox break it open against Cleveland 11-7. Yankees winning 2-0 over Houston in the 4th.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#467403) #
so who closes
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#467404) #

which Hoff do we get tonight?

or

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#467405) #
At least whoever pitches the ninth won’t have to face Cincy’s No. 1-4 hitters (unless things go awry).
Gerry - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#467406) #
Jeff Hoffman. Nothing can go wrong.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#467407) #
Score Vladdy, give Hoffman an extra run of breathing room.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#467408) #
would be annoying not to score this insurance run.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#467410) #
that was an interesting choice vladdy.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#467411) #
I will say it before he hits, so it can burn me - but Barger hitting for Schneider doesn't actually make any sense.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#467412) #
Vladdy self-manufactures a run. Great job.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#467413) #
lmao vladdy's risky steal pays off. nice.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#467414) #
4 times on base for Vladdy is nice to see. Hopefully the power comes back now.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#467415) #
I didn’t think the steal was that risky. No one was holding Vladdy and he got a big lead and started running early.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#467416) #
I think we’re going to see Yesavage in the majors at some point this month.
uglyone - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#467417) #

1st place, baby.

scottt - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#467418) #
5 really is the magic number.

It's when the score is 4-2 in the 9th that things go south.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#467419) #
Big win. Not the prettiest game but bank any win you can in any way you can. Win the series tomorrow and rest up for New York. Looking at the remaining schedules, I don't like the Jays chances of staying ahead of the Yankees, so the weekend series is going to determine a lot. Getting tomorrow is important.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#467420) #
Key thing is to get Barger and Vladdy feeling good at the plate for the New York and Boston series. Both players need to start driving the ball with authority if the Blue Jays are going to hold down first place this month.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#467421) #
SK, don’t forget the Blue Jays hold the tiebreak advantage over New York and Boston this season — a slight but potentially important advantage down the home stretch.
Glevin - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#467422) #
Vladdy had such a weird game because he didn't hit ball hard at all but got 3 hits. He also had some terrible footwork at 1B falling down once and not timing IKf's throw well. He also stole 3B and walked. Hopefully, this helps him turn things around.
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#467423) #
Roman Anthony suffered an oblique injury in today’s game. That could be devastating for Boston if he’s out of commission for the month (if not longer). He’s already one of their best players.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#467424) #
If Schneider wasn't a slave to the save, he might have used Hoffman in the 8th against the lefties/switch hitter, and then gone with Dominguez, who isn't good against lefties, vs. the righties at the bottom of the lineup. Can't do that when you have a capital C Closer though.

We really need the Astros to show up the next two games, even if it's just to make the Yankees burn their higher leverage bullpen arms.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 02 2025 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#467425) #
Pujols was terrible for years, and then hit .270/.345/.550, 151 OPS+ over 351 PA at age 42 (or more, likely). I also remember Giambi being bad and then bouncing back with a big year.
Michael - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 03:04 AM EDT (#467426) #
Quite the game today. I missed some of the earlier Pete Walker talk, but I think he's got an above average resume in terms of fixing/correcting pitchers, or at least he tended to get credit for the Happ, Ray, Ryu, Stripling set of pitchers all working out well. There was a time some people were even suggesting a FA pitcher who had a mixed record with a bad walk year should try to sign a 1-year deal with Toronto as there was a good chance Walker would be able to fix them for a good FA deal.

I'm not sure he's had as much success (luck?) post DUI in the last couple of years, but it isn't clear to me that he's the problem.

The problem with our relievers is they aren't bad, but aren't great, and they can't consistently execute (and give up too many HR). Personally I find the most frustrating things giving up balls/pitching from behind/walks as it feels like that ought to be controllable at a major league level. The other side might crush a pitch or get lucky on a bounce, but if you can't find the plate, you are in trouble.
scottt - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 05:32 AM EDT (#467427) #
Walker doesn't work with the relievers as much as with the starters.

It's mostly a question of pitch mix with the relief guys. Take Nance, they tried to make him throw more curves but if he does he will hang one eventually. Little was throwing mostly the sinker with the Cubs.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:34 AM EDT (#467430) #
Looking at playoff odds at FG - the AL is pretty much set with 90%+ for Jays/Red Sox/Yankees/Tigers/Astros and 79% for Seattle. Texas at 15.9% is next, then KC at 9.4%. The Bye is more up for debate - no one at 90% yet, Detroit 87.4%, Jays 60.9%, Yankees 24.9%, Astros 11.7%, Red Sox 11.5%. Jays at 61.5% to win the East.

So still in good shape. Best since 1993 outside of 2015 for September. Boy it has been a dry spell hasn't it? Sure makes dumping everything into winning in 2015 make sense.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#467431) #
gotta be honest John - the "playoffs odds" never made a lick of sense to me and seemingly can change on a dime. "90%" makes it sound way safer than it actually is.

That being said, i'm not really worried about missing the playoffs this year.
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#467433) #
Berrios quote after the game," I was trying my best but I just felt out of rhythm."

Well. yeah, that's not surprising after not having game action for 9 days. Berrios has not missed a start in his career so sitting on the sidelines for that long must have seemed an eternity. Is it fair to wonder why he and Lauer couldn't have pitched an inning here and there to keep sharp?

Also, it was mentioned on the broadcast last night that George Springer worked extensively with Michael Brantley last winter. Maybe Brantley deserves as much of the credit for George's resurgence as the current Jay's hitting coaches.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#467434) #
Yeah i just don't see how anyone actually thought sitting Berrios and Lauer for 9 and 11 days was going to help anything. Really does seem like they bungled this up pretty good.
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#467435) #
The Valdez incident last night in Houston looks and sounds pretty ugly. I'd be surprised if the Jays get any help from Houston with the Yankees in the next couple of days.
John Northey - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#467436) #
Since July 1st for wRC+ Springer is #2 (219) and Bo #3 (177) in MLB. Ahead of them is Nick Kurtz of the A's (4th overall pick in 2024 @ 227). Soto is 4th, Judge 6th, Ohtani 8th, Vlad 13th at 149 (slacker). Ernie CLement is 6th worst among qualified batters (162 batters) at 67 (0.3 fWAR). 2 guys worse than Clement are Anthony Volpe (NYY 57 SS), Cam Smith (Hou 51 RF), and Nick Castellanos (Phi 51 3B). So contenders can have a big hole in the lineup and get away with it. Just seems silly to me to keep him as a hole when you don't need to. Ah well, we've been through that debate a LOT here.

Gausman is #13 for fWAR for pitchers since July 1st 3.11 ERA, 3.64 xFIP, 1.5 WAR. Tied with Joe Ryan and Justin Verlander. I'm sure most would be surprised Max Scherzer is 13th worst among qualified pitchers (69) at 0.4 fWAR. His xFIP is 4.78 vs ERA of 3.95. For all pitchers (663) Jeff Hoffman is the worst Jay at -0.4, tied with Chad Green part of a big group tied who are 16th worst to 30th worst.
christaylor - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#467439) #
If I remember correctly from a long-ago Fangraphs or BP article, playoff odds only stabilize within +/- 10 in late August. Also, in tight three-way races for the division, the variance is even more unstable.

Right now, the Jays are about 60% to win the division. A sweep by the Yankees (20%-ish) likely puts them ahead, given the way the simulations are run.

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

It's nice that there are predictive models implemented to go with the gut check, but they seem over-engineered in a way. Also, the psych research shows how bad humans are at interpreting probabilistic forecasts, which adds another wrinkle.

That said, I still like using them; it does provide a nice counter to the doomerism that I feel even this late in the season.
92-93 - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#467440) #
The playoff odds make perfect sense tbh, and it's weird that they don't make sense to somebody who loves projections.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#467442) #
projections are nice and stable.

playoffs odds seem to swing often and drastically.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#467443) #
Roman Anthony 4-6 weeks
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#467446) #
Something like the Roman Anthony scenario could easily have happened to the Blue Jays with the recent injuries to Kirk (foul tip to mask), Springer (hit in head by 97 MPH pitch), Vladdy (hamstring strain), Varsho (hit in hand by 96.9 MPH pitch).

There but for the grace of the baseball gods go the Blue Jays.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#467447) #
Anthony 2025 second half wRC+: 153 (.311/.413/.503)
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#467448) #
In other news, Boston OF Wilyer Abreu, who is also having a very good season, suffered a setback in his recovery from a calf injury.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#467449) #
tbh i don't think the jays have had any health bonus this year .
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#467450) #
tbh i don't think the jays have had any health bonus this year .
Glevin - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#467451) #
Jays hoping Santander can start rehab assignment on Tuesday. He'll need at least five games on rehab. Could be a massive boost to the Jays if he's back especially if Barger continues to struggle.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#467452) #
More on the Framber incident:

Michael Schwab
@michaelschwab13
Sources tell me tensions rose in the Astros clubhouse last night, after the loss, when players confronted Framber Valdez for his in game actions involving César Salazar.

The argument escalated and coaches eventually stepped in to calm the situation.

While intent behind the pitch remains unclear, Valdez’s initial refusal to address Salazar frustrated many in the clubhouse.
1:09 PM · Sep 3, 2025
·
389.3K
Views
Mike Green - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#467456) #
I attribute Springer's resurgence to his move to mostly a DH role.  I think he has thrived in the role, as a few players in their 30s have done before.  It met a little hiccup in May when Santander's shoulder symptoms had him DHing a lot with Springer in RF field.  Springer did not hit well there and also struggled defensively.  Santander's DL placement had two positive effects- it allowed Springer to DH the great majority of the time and opened up playing time for Barger, Lukes and Schneider.  

Santander's return would, in my view, only benefit the club if he can play the outfield reasonably well.  I don't know what the state of his shoulder is, but I am concerned about his throwing, as much or more than his hitting.  Pushing Springer into a more regular OF role is unlikely to work well, and I somehow doubt that Santander would be happy as a pinch-hitter.  
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#467457) #
That's comical - the intent behind the pitch was 100% clear. He intentionally plugged his own C with a 95 MPH FB right in the sternum and Valdez wanted 40,000 fans to know it. It was total garbage. I'd also heard that there was a full out scrap in the clubhouse afterwards.
scottt - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#467458) #
I think Springer hit the gym hard and added back some lost bat speed.
ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#467459) #
I don't understand why Davis Schneider isn't given more playing time and Bargar's spot batting second. Schneider has a good batting eye and hits both Rh and Lh pitchers equally well .
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#467460) #
Mike, I agree. Moving Springer into a full-time DH role was a very good decision. But it also sounds as though he has fundamentally changed his approach at the plate. Based on Springer’s sincere and effusive praise of the hitting coaching staff this season, it sounds as though Popkins & co. have genuinely helped him get back on track as a dangerous hitter.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#467461) #
Barger at #2 is just baffling in so many ways. Most of all because it isn't a matter of luck or making some small adjustment. He's been swinging at everything for a month. Not saying he shouldn't play but he shouldn't be an automatic start and shouldn't be hitting #2 ever.
scottt - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#467462) #
There is some logic with alternating batters.
It makes it harder for relievers. The starter has to figure out his 3rd pitch early if he can't use his main breaking ball. Pitchers love getting a bunch of right bats in a row.

scottt - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#467463) #
There is some logic with alternating batters.
It makes it harder for relievers. The starter has to figure out his 3rd pitch early if he can't use his main breaking ball. Pitchers love getting a bunch of right bats in a row.

lexomatic - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#467464) #
Jays making Littel look like an ace
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#467465) #
Maybe a decent chunk of the bullpen's problems stem from year long poor starting pitching?
scottt - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#467466) #
Bieber really struggling this time.
Hodgie - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#467467) #
I am trying to think of when I last saw the entire Jays staff implode at roughly the same time - can't recall, so I may have repressed it. Also, maybe it is karma for what the Jays' bottom of the lineup has done this season, but it's remarkable how many times in this stretch that some (charitably) not very good hitters have beaten them up.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:25 PM EDT (#467468) #
I - ahem - announced I was optimistic about 2025 Springer the day after the 2024 season ended. But I'm a simple fellow. I just figured his BABiP luck -which was awful last year - would return to normal. I certainly didn't expect this. "I expect him to bounce back with something like his 2018 season in Houston: .265/.346/.434" was what I said.

I don't know if he was hitting the gym extra hard, but when a guy who's been a great player has a year like Springer did last year, he's not likely to think he was hitting in bad luck. He's more likely to think he needs to do something about it. I agree that it's probably helped that he's DHing so much, and gets to spend more time looking at videos and studying the pitchers. But he's actually hit quite well when he's playing the outfield (.290/.368/.500)
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#467469) #
With Roman Anthony's injury, there's a better shot of the Jays staying above the Red Sox, but not sure they end up finishing ahead of the Yankees at this rate, especially with the remaining schedule for both teams. The tiebreaker only matters if they finish tied. The Yankees have the type of schedule that they could smoke past the Jays depending on how this weekend goes. Can't afford to lose this game and possibly head into NY on Friday with either a 2 or 1 game lead.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#467470) #
As soon as they mentioned Barger hitting a HR off Littel earlier in the year you knew exactky why he was in there....and it worked.

Silly little sport, baseball.

Red Sox down 7-0 btw.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#467471) #
Uh oh Buck pulling out the Jack Morris comps for Bieber now.

Just win, baby.
Hodgie - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#467472) #
That is a heckuva job by Bieber to regroup and give the Jays some clean innings after the disaster in the 2nd.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#467473) #
Borucki vs the top of the order, given his stats vs RHH, is an interesting choice.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#467474) #
Absolutely unreal that Schneider thought this was the spot for Borucki. Nance actually did really well that inning. He should have been given a chance to finish the inning.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#467475) #
Oh thank god he chased.
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#467476) #
the jays are a good hitting team.
electric carrot - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#467477) #
the jays are a good hitting team.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#467478) #
Did anyone have anything positive to say about Ty France when the trade was made? Anyone? Bueller?

Someone should look. But I'm afraid what I might find.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#467479) #
They got out of it with 1 run allowed, then added more in top 8th, but...I just don't understand Schneider's pitching changes sometimes. Nance has been absolutely fine and a couple righties are coming after Friedl, so what was the rush in getting Nance out of the game and (let's be honest) a scrub like Borucki in? You knew he was going to walk him because Jays relievers are obligated to walk the first batter they face, and then he was in the soup immediately.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#467480) #
Ty France has a 135wrc+ in 80pa as a Jay.
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#467481) #
Bad Koch tonight:(. It’s just crazy how many missiles he gives up.

I’m impressed with what France has shown so far. Some very disciplined hitting.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#467482) #
crazy that varland can get hit that hard.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#467483) #
I did not like the France pick up, but I think at this point I'm just going to trust Popkins to fix any hitter the Jays pick up moving forward.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#467484) #
Also, 15 days without Braydon Fisher has felt like 15 months.
Glevin - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#467485) #
Vladdy hitting the ball like himself tonight.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#467486) #
red sox lose
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#467487) #
The best news of the night might be that Vladdy is starting to look like Vladdy again.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#467488) #
Also, France is a good defender at first base. Good pickup by Atkins.

Bieber, Dominguez, Varland, France is a pretty good and underrated deadline haul (even with the Billy Koch vibes identified by Nigel). Historically, lots of players acquired at the deadline don’t contribute much to the acquiring team.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#467489) #
Hoffman again? With a four-run lead?
Nigel - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#467490) #
The Hoffman usage is so weird. The one time they needed a closer in this series he wasn’t available.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#467491) #
At least Hoffman was able to get three efficient outs tonight.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#467492) #
eh Hoffman needs the practice.

big win, but this seemed like a shaky series.


anyways, we gonna crush NY this weekend.

houston is making a game of it right now vs NYY too looks like.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#467493) #
yankees on SN1 btw
Glevin - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#467494) #
I believe that's the 6th time Hoffman has thrown 4 times in 5 days.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#467495) #
Just looked it up, yes it's the 6th time Hoffman has pitched 4 times in 5 days.

3/29-4/2
5/6-5/10
6/6-6/10
6/29-7/3
7/18-7/22
8/30-9/3

Not sure that's an ideal usage for any reliever at this point, but probably won't be the last time we see it from now until October.
pooks137 - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#467497) #
Did anyone have anything positive to say about Ty France when the trade was made? Anyone? Bueller?

I didn't particularly care for Ty France, but was happy to acquire an actual backup 1B defensively who wasn't Will Wagner or Ernie Clement for the MLB roster.

Never got my wish for a true long man though, current Eric Lauer audition notwithstanding.

uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#467498) #
the score ticker on this houston broadcast angers me.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#467499) #
stros tie it up!

still 2 risp with 2 outs in the 7th.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#467500) #
4-4 Astros and Yankees on Yordan RBI single. Still two on, two out.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#467501) #
Altuve just missed a 3-1 Luke Weaver pitch. Flyout to deep right-centre. They’re headed to the eighth tied 4-4.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#467502) #
and the yanks walk in the go ahead run in the 8th.

bases still jacked with 2 outs. pitching change.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#467503) #
yankees crying at the umps now.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#467504) #
Pena with a clutch hit, 6-4 Astros, still bases loaded. Go Houston!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#467505) #
Balk by Doval. 7-4
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#467506) #
with the phils and cubs losing the Jays are back all alone in 1st AL and 2nd overall MLB. still 5gms back of the brewers tho.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#467507) #
yanks tears flowing real hard now.
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#467508) #
WP. 8-4
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#467509) #
yanks bullpen falling apart spectacularly.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#467510) #
Yanks look like they'll drop 3.5 back
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#467511) #
Feels weird to be rooting for the Framber/garbage-can-banging Astros, but here we are. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
uglyone - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#467512) #
lol yanks get absolutely screwed on the final pitch of the game.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#467513) #
They did!
greenfrog - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#467514) #
Well, Boone didn’t exactly charm the umpiring crew the previous half-inning.
Magpie - Wednesday, September 03 2025 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#467515) #
Scoreboard watching is seldom this enjoyable.
Dr B - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:25 AM EDT (#467516) #
lol yanks get absolutely screwed on the final pitch of the game.
My father taught me that one should not delight in the misfortunes of others.

This, of course, would be denying oneself one of life’s great pleasures.
Nigel - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 01:17 AM EDT (#467517) #
I am 100% certain that what your father taught you does not apply to the misery of Red Sox fans. My certainty with respect to Yankees fans comes and goes.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 07:54 AM EDT (#467520) #
Jeff Passan on Bo's free agency. Keep in mind that Jeff was wrong about Vladdy (he initially thought Vladdy wouldn't get much more than $300m because he's a first baseman).

After last year's uncharacteristic cratering, the real Bo Bichette has returned. And we say real because over his first five seasons in the major leagues, Bichette posted a .307/.352/.477. slash line, and this year it's .310/.354/.478. That sandwiches him between Bobby Witt Jr. and Trea Turner in terms of wOBA among shortstops with at least 130 games. It's a tremendous platform season for any free agent.

So why are there questions about Bichette's value? Every publicly available defensive metric has him as the worst defensive shortstop in baseball. Same goes for three teams surveyed independently. And considering top shortstops tend to get more than $250 million in free agency, position -- and the ability to stay at a premium one -- can be the difference between joining that echelon and falling short.

Despite those concerns, there are some real positives: Bichette is only 27 years old, not 28 until March, the youngest of all the free agents. He's in his prime with years left to spare. He's a consistent .300-plus hitter. He goes to all fields. He's got power. His problem with lateral mobility could easily be solved by a move to third base -- though it remains to be seen if he would want to change positions -- and his bat would be good enough to play there, too.

Whatever position Bichette mans, wherever he plays, he is a hitter in an era with far too few. Maybe he's not a $300 million player. But if Turner is worth $300 million and Xander Bogaerts is worth $280 million and both were at least two years older than Bichette when they did sign, surely the market won't leave him high and dry.
Glevin - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#467521) #
The France thing is funny because he's obviously been very good with the Jays but just as obviously this is just variance of a league average hitter. Regression to the mean is extremely powerful with established players unless there is some underlying change in approach/swing like with Varsho this year. France has a 135 WRC+ with the Jays. Fantastic. He also has a. 404 BABIP. His career BABIP is. 304 and its been worse last few years as he gotten slower.That BABIP will go down and so will his numbers with it. We're now at 1,500 PAs of France being a league average hitter. It will take more than a BABIP-fueled good month for me to think anything has changed. In May last year, he had a 144 WRC+, in August of 2023, he had a 150 WRC+. Havimg a good or even great month doesn't signal fundamental change.
Ryan Day - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#467522) #
I think Bo will get a great deal, but whether it's in Toronto or elsewhere I don't think anyone is going to commit to him playing shortstop long-term. The press conference where he announces his signing will almost certainly involve him talking about being excited to help his new team win games at [probably 2b] and playing alongside [established SS].

Going to a new team with a star SS will make switching positions easier on his ego, but piles of cash will probably help out, too.
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#467525) #
Nothing wrong with having a league average hitter on the bench tho, especially one with no significant splits.

If they've identified a certain type of pitcher style to deploy him against to maximize his contributions then even better.

If Santander comes back it'll be interesting to see who he pushes out - France or Falefa.
92-93 - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#467528) #
These discussions are usually moot because injuries take care of roster issues, but it has to be IKF that goes. If we assume that a healthy Santander pushes Clement to the bench vs. RHP (a quantum leap, I know), it makes IKF on the bench very redundant. They'd have Clement, France, and Schneider to PH for Barger, Gimenez, and Lukes.
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#467529) #
maybe, but then again they seem to have gone out of their way to get the skills mix they have on the roster at the moment, and the skillset that most resembles Santander is France.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#467530) #
Except Santander is a defensive downgrade, while France is a good defender at first base.

I would also be concerned about Santander being rusty at the plate. He seems like a guy who would need to be healthy and productive to be really valuable in the current above-average offensive lineup.
ISLAND BOY - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#467531) #
I didn't go back to see specific comments at the time Ty France was acquired but you'd think France was the second coming of Derek Fisher by the general attitude toward him. Instead, he has been above average offensively and is 8 runs above average defensively at first. Far from a throw-in, he has been arguably better than Varland.

I didn't have an opinion on him, but that doesn't mean I'm smarter than anybody else here. In fact, I suggested last yesterday that Davis Schneider should be batting second instead of Bargar, who then went out and had a home run and 4 RBI's.
Four Seamer - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#467532) #
I suppose part of the Santander discussion is how much the front office is prioritizing winning the division versus preparing the roster for October baseball. I happen to think winning the division and avoiding the crapshoot of a 3 game series is critical, but with Bieber in the rotation and a wild card spot mostly sewn up, they may be willing to take the chance on losing the division while Santander rounds into form over the final few weeks. Putting a little more distance between themselves and the Yanks over the weekend will surely help with that decision.
Michael - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#467533) #
I sort of assume that Santander isn't a good enough player to make the playoff roster given how little of the season is left. Like if he hit like Judge or Soto or Vlad you'd be willing to have him on the roster with no warm up time, but even if he's better than France and IKF (which he is), it isn't clear to me he's so much better that you'd put him in without the time to get his timing back and/or guarantee that he's healthy. If he were coming back today so he had a few weeks, then you could see, but if he still isn't healthy enough to be in the majors today it is hard for me to imagine he's healthy enough and in game shape and hitting timing enough to contribute positively this year (unless we have injuries taking out the players that are making everything a risk).
Eephus - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#467534) #
One thing Santander has going for him is being a switch hitter with generally even career splits from either side. I wonder if a situation arises wherein he’s further along/more comfortable swinging one way over the other (less tension on the rehabbing shoulder) and the team decides to deploy him more so in moments best utilizing that.

He wasn’t all that good from either side this season before the injury of course, although as a LH he was merely bad (.604 OPS) rather than putrid (.489 as a RH).
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#467535) #
I dunno - how many weeks of time do you think an MLB vet needs to get up to speed?

How many spring training appearances does an MLB vet need to get up to speed to start the year?

It would be kind of unprecedented to keep a big FA signing off the roster, if healthy, with a month of time for him to get back in the swing of things.

Though i guess if you just think he's not that good, that's fair enough.
SK in NJ - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#467536) #
Lukes vs RHP
Season: 102 wRC+, 322 PA
Since June: 88 wRC+, 209 PA
Since July: 98 wRC+, 160 PA
Since August: 67 wRC+, 82 PA

Between that, and the general unlikelihood of Schneider ever genuinely benching a healthy Ernie Clement in any capacity, I think there's a very real chance that Lukes is the one that loses playing time when Santander returns (Clement at 3B, Barger in RF, Springer/Santander sharing LF/DH). In that scenario, IKF becomes a more reasonable bench piece because they'd have no true backup infielder other than Davis Schneider who they rarely play at 2B anymore. If they start Lukes against RHP and move Clement to the bench, then it's a clear no brainer who should be dropped, but I'll say IMO France should be kept over IKF regardless. IKF is not good, and as long as France is hitting, he provides way more usefulness in general.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#467537) #
Another variable we haven’t discussed is the imperative of keeping a team’s veteran players happy. Santander is under contract for a while. I don’t think he would be too impressed if he were finally healthy and ready to play, but the team left him off the MLB roster in their push for the division title and a WS championship. I’m not saying this should be the deciding factor, but it is something teams need to consider.
92-93 - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#467538) #
The Bisons season ends on September 21st. Santander has plenty of time to get himself back on track, and if he's healthy there is no doubt that he will be on the playoff roster.
Nigel - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#467539) #
In most line-up alignments right now the Jays are short of a LH bat to pinch hit. For that reason alone they will bring back Santander (so long as he's healthy and showing any sign of life with a bat). Whether he's starting in the OF and giving the team Lukes to PH and play defence or vice versa there's a deployable advantage to Santander over any other option.
dalimon5 - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#467540) #
Yeah Santander has lots of time to get ready and contribute. The only issues preventing it would be health. If he's healthy I don't see any scenario where he needs more than 3-4 weeks to be ready or a situation where he's not good.
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#467541) #
Just so we're all on the same page: https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-notebook-how-santander-yesavage-could-aid-playoff-drive/


CINCINNATI — Back in early May, when Anthony Santander first injured his left shoulder diving into the stands at Angel Stadium, he told himself and the Blue Jays that he was good to keep playing.

But with the benefit of hindsight, he now believes staying on the field in the weeks that followed likely made his shoulder worse.

By the end of May, the shoulder was “really, really bad, with a lot of inflammation,” so Santander went on the injured list in the hopes that he’d return in three or four more weeks. To his dismay, the injury required far more time to heal, with a period of four-to-six weeks of very light workouts followed by a gradual summer buildup planned in conjunction with the team’s training staff.

Now on the brink of a rehab assignment, Santander says his left-handed swing feels “really good,” though his right-handed swing isn’t quite at 100 per cent yet. He has also been running the bases on the field and throwing regularly in preparation for a triple-A stint that could begin as soon as Tuesday and would last at least five games.

“I’m happy to get back on the field after (three-plus) months,” Santander said Wednesday, addressing the injury publicly for the first time. “Coming back from the injury was a little tough (since) I had a lot of inflammation in the shoulder, but I’m really excited about coming back.”

While Santander’s right-handed swing is still lagging behind, the Blue Jays expect further progress in the week ahead. Manager John Schneider said there’s every intention of making sure Santander’s ready from both sides before he returns.

“It's so tough with a switch-hitter,” Schneider said. “You’ve got to maintain two swings, so it's a different range of motion (and) different stresses are put on the injury. So that (right-handed swing) has been a little bit behind the left-handed swing just from a comfort standpoint. And we really don't want to have him as a one-dimensional option."

If Santander’s progress continues, he and George Springer would share DH duties while also playing some outfield. While the rehab process has been slower than Santander initially hoped, he’s been encouraged by how well his teammates are playing without him.

“We’re winning, and I’m happy for the work they’ve been doing,” he said. “That’s making me keep working hard through this process so when the time comes to join the team, I can try to do my job to help the team. They’ve been doing a great job the whole year.”

Asked whether the shoulder will require any more treatment during the off-season, Santander acknowledged there’s still some uncertainty about how the next couple months will unfold — he just hopes he’s making those plans after a deep playoff run.

"We'll see after the season," Santander said. "Hopefully after the World Series we'll see what's the next step in the off-season. The main thing was to try to avoid surgery, which is not good."

John Northey - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#467542) #
IIRC Bo's arm isn't seen as good enough for 3B, so that leaves only 2B or a move to the OF (ala Robin Yount at the same age). The Jays are overloaded with OF'ers, have an expensive high end defensive 2B, and a kid at 3B (or RF). So what to do? It will be interesting to see this winter how it goes. I'm sure the Jays will make a 3 year offer (stay at SS) or a longer term one (move somewhere) but odds are he'll find someone promising full-time SS play regardless of defense and a 7+ year deal. The Yankees with Volpe there could sure use the upgrade (84 OPS+ both this year and lifetime), the Dodgers have used Betts there a lot and he's done well, but it is pushing it a lot with a 32 year old playing SS full time for the first time in his career and they might want to move him back to the OF or 2B after his wRC+ cratered while at SS (95 vs a 140 last year, 136 lifetime).

So with 2 big big money teams likely to be at least kicking the tires odds are Bo will get whatever his goal is. Jays will look for a short term fix until one of the kids is ready (Kasevich closest but a 450 OPS in AAA over 57 PA, Jimenez there too but his ML time this year was ugly in all respects, Josh Rivera in AAA played more than those 2, same age 24, with a 693 OPS so he could be a surprise, Nimmala in A+ has had issues at age 19 but could be ready by '28 or earlier if things get going again, then you have JoJo Parker the 1st pick by the Jays this year who is also 19). A few possible stopgaps until Nimmala or Parker are ready. Or they could move Gimenez over and put Clement at 2B and Barger at 3B to make a solid infield for now. It will make for a fascinating offseason. If they have cash I'd direct it at pitching myself.
Katie - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#467544) #
Idk about you, but I can pretty easily see a scenario where Anthony Santander is not good in a short playoff series.

Also, Lukes is a noticeably better defender than Santander. The Zips rest of season predictions have them both worth 0.2 WAR, with Santander having more plate appearances and offensive contributions, but negative defense, whereas Lukes has positive defence and neutral offence.

Also, I agree with Mike Green that having Springer DH frequently has likely been a significant factor (but not the only one) in his fantastic season.

All that to say, I expect Santander to be back and on the playoff roster if he's healthy, but I think his return to the starting lineup is a mixed bag.

Also, Yesavage will be in the playoff bullpen unless he implodes on his late September major league trial.
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#467546) #
hey I imagined a likely scenario before the season where Santander was never a good fit for the roster at all, so I get it!

but even a rusty Santander should be on the bench in the playoffs IMO, even if that's just a psychological thing to influence opposing pitchers and managers.

the starting lineup is another question, and it would be pretty funny after all their devotion to defense this year that the org would end up favoring bats come the post season.

one thing tho - while Springer at DH was definitely a very good call in the regular season just to save the wear and tear on his body, I don't think that applies in a limited time playoffs run, with plenty of off days. If they think it makes sense tactically, they shouldn't hesitate to use Springer in the field I don't think. I'm not saying that that's the necessarily the best move tactically tho - could well be that Lukes in the field is better than Santander at DH anyways.
greenfrog - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#467547) #
I’m not all that excited about Santander’s return, unless he is truly healthy. Given that he isn’t yet able to swing properly from the right side and that he hasn’t ruled out off-season shoulder surgery, it doesn’t sound like he’s in great shape to hit and play defense for the team.

It’s worth remembering that the team has posted an 81-59 (.579) record without Santander. Their record probably would have been closer to .600 had Santander missed the entire season. He has been worth -0.9 fWAR so far this year:
99BlueJaysWay - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#467548) #
“Also, Yesavage will be in the playoff bullpen unless he implodes on his late September major league trial.”

This is not possible. He wasn’t on the 40 man on Sept. 1. https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/postseason-roster-rules-eligibility
greenfrog - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#467549) #
I think the Blue Jays can apply for special dispensation from MLB to add Yesavage to the postseason roster. No idea how straightforward it is to get that special dispensation.
uglyone - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#467550) #
Sportsnet:

"Trey Yesavage, Toronto’s No. 1 prospect, is still not on the team’s 40-man roster as of Monday morning. MLB rules state that only players on the 40-man or 60-day injured list as of 11:59 p.m. ET on Aug. 31 are eligible for the post-season.

However, a player that doesn’t meet that criteria can still be added to a team’s roster in the post-season via petition to the commissioner’s office if the player was in the organization on Aug. 31 and is replacing someone who is on the injured list and has served the minimum amount of time required for activation.

This means that the Blue Jays will have to file a petition should they wish to add Yesavage to the post-season roster. The Detroit Tigers took a similar path with top prospect Jackson Jobe in 2024, and Jobe made two relief appearances for the Tigers in the post-season."
hypobole - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#467551) #
Springer changed his swing and approach. The swing change was more a change back to when he was successful and wasn't pounding the ball into the ground. Look at his GB rates and launch angles over the years.

Here's a pretty good bit on his approach change:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/meet-the-old-george-springer/

Katie - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#467552) #
Hypobole, I've read that article, but it's a good reminder of the work Springer did. That being said, I'll always believe that him playing mostly at DH and far less frequently in the outfield was also a significant contributing factor to his resurgence.

I'm pretty confident the Jays will get an exemption for Yeasavage if they ask.
92-93 - Thursday, September 04 2025 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#467558) #
Cam Eden joined the Jays in September ‘23 and was on the playoff roster.

The rule should be rewritten, cuz it probably wasn’t meant to prevent a team from using its own prospects.
Ryan Day - Friday, September 05 2025 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#467561) #
Does someone need to get injured in September for Yesavage to take their place, or can he take the roster spot that was used by Garcia or Sandlin?
uglyone - Friday, September 05 2025 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#467562) #
I think its just someone on the 40man that has to be put on the IL. Like Bloss.
Toronto at Cincinnati, September 1-3 | 255 comments | Create New Account
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