Need a win on the West Coast. Now would be a good time.
Matchup!
Scherzer (5-5, 5.19) vs Glasnow (4-3, 3.19)
Glasnow should be gettable, right? He didn't exactly cover himself in glory during his one start against TOR back in August and hasn't had much success against the good guys throughout his career.
As for the sequencing of Mad Max and Bieber, you can agonize over it or just mutter a silent prayer to the baseball gods and hope for the best. I'll go with the latter.
As for the sequencing of Mad Max and Bieber, you can agonize over it or just mutter a silent prayer to the baseball gods and hope for the best. I'll go with the latter.
Feels like a crucial game (gee ya think) in the series. Win, I think we’re looking at a series that probably goes at least six and you bring it back home to Toronto. Lose, advantage Dodgers and Game Four becomes a mountain.
These guys have clearly proven they can overcome anything, of course.
As a famous Los Angeles athlete supposedly once said in his singular legendary season playing for Toronto… F@@ that, let’s get both.
These guys have clearly proven they can overcome anything, of course.
As a famous Los Angeles athlete supposedly once said in his singular legendary season playing for Toronto… F@@ that, let’s get both.
Glasnow definitely a better matchup on paper than Yamamoto (who isn't?) he also will walk guys so Jays have to make him throw pitches.
Glasnow is great but i think he's nowhere near as scary as their first two guys were.
Scherzer v Bieber is fascinating tbh.
Scherzer only let up the 2 runs in 5.2 in the ALCS, but walked 4 and needed a .167babip to only give up 3hits. it was a grind the whole time but he used some of the best curves i've ever seen from him to get out of sticky situations. 78era-, 137fip-, 130xfip-. The numbers scream luck but the vibes scream clutch as loudly as Max screamed at John.
meanwhile Bieber pitched twice in the ALCS and puts up a 91era-, 88fip-, 55xfip- line in just under 5ip per start. Got all sorts of strikeouts and almost no walks. Gave up a bunch of hits but on a .375babip. Barely behind Gausman for lowest EV of the SP. Lowest hardhit% and barrell% of the SP. Lowest xERA of the SP by a lot. All the numbers scream that Biebs was good despite having bad luck, but the eye test says he was hittable as all get out.
myself i would have had bieber ahead of scherzer, but i can't deny the irresistability of the Mad Max narrative either.
Scherzer v Bieber is fascinating tbh.
Scherzer only let up the 2 runs in 5.2 in the ALCS, but walked 4 and needed a .167babip to only give up 3hits. it was a grind the whole time but he used some of the best curves i've ever seen from him to get out of sticky situations. 78era-, 137fip-, 130xfip-. The numbers scream luck but the vibes scream clutch as loudly as Max screamed at John.
meanwhile Bieber pitched twice in the ALCS and puts up a 91era-, 88fip-, 55xfip- line in just under 5ip per start. Got all sorts of strikeouts and almost no walks. Gave up a bunch of hits but on a .375babip. Barely behind Gausman for lowest EV of the SP. Lowest hardhit% and barrell% of the SP. Lowest xERA of the SP by a lot. All the numbers scream that Biebs was good despite having bad luck, but the eye test says he was hittable as all get out.
myself i would have had bieber ahead of scherzer, but i can't deny the irresistability of the Mad Max narrative either.
The Blue Jays bar at the end of the world
https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-bar-world-series-iqaluit-canada
https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-bar-world-series-iqaluit-canada
I think I promised (or maybe "threatened" is better) a Ty Cobb story, and while we're waiting for first pitch seems like a good time. (I've been reading Charles Leerhsen's book, which goes some way to correcting some of the many, many myths about Cobb.)
Anyway, it was 12 May 1911 (bb-ref doesn't have the play by play, but Retrosheet does.) The Tigers were trailing the New York Highlanders 5-3 at Bennett Park in Detroit. There were two out and runners on first and second. Cobb lined a double to the opposite field. Both runs scored to tie the game. It was a close play at the plate, so New York catcher Sweeney turned to argue with the umpire. The New York infielders all came in and clustered around home plate to support his argument. According to the New York Times game story
Under such circumstances it is the custom of the base runner to sit down on the sack and wait for something to turn up
The runner would sit down on the base? Really? Well, that's not how Ty Cobb played baseball.
Cobb, observing that third base was unguarded, trotted amiably up there. No one saw him. So he tiptoed gingerly along toward the group at the plate. He did not come under the observation of the public until he was about ten feet from the goal all base runners seek, where for a few seconds he stood practically still, peering into the cluster of disputants before him, looking for an opening to slide through. He found one and skated across the plate with the winning run under the noses of almost the entire New York team, Sweeney touching him with the ball when it was too late.
He was credited with two stolen bases. The Tigers won 6-5.
Under such circumstances it is the custom of the base runner to sit down on the sack and wait for something to turn up
The runner would sit down on the base? Really? Well, that's not how Ty Cobb played baseball.
Cobb, observing that third base was unguarded, trotted amiably up there. No one saw him. So he tiptoed gingerly along toward the group at the plate. He did not come under the observation of the public until he was about ten feet from the goal all base runners seek, where for a few seconds he stood practically still, peering into the cluster of disputants before him, looking for an opening to slide through. He found one and skated across the plate with the winning run under the noses of almost the entire New York team, Sweeney touching him with the ball when it was too late.
He was credited with two stolen bases. The Tigers won 6-5.
"myself i would have had bieber ahead of scherzer, but i can't deny the irresistability of the Mad Max narrative"
I find myself fully able to resist the Scherzer narrative and if I was the skip I would have plugged in the Biebs for game three. I am sensing many runs being scored this game -- hopefully more for jays.
I find myself fully able to resist the Scherzer narrative and if I was the skip I would have plugged in the Biebs for game three. I am sensing many runs being scored this game -- hopefully more for jays.
The order is different from Game 1. I’d rather Kirk bat ahead of Varsho than break up the lefties. May another Schneider decision turn to gold.
Also, I like the decision to give Bieber the extra day and have him pitch G4. G7 would be all hands on deck anyway.
Weak first inning for the Blue Jays hitters (8 pitches thrown by Glasnow to get 3 outs).
Scherzer looks great so far. Stuff looks crisp, and he’s commanding his pitches.
whoa Scherzer's stuff looks nasty nasty tonight.
not sure how ohtani kept that fair.
not sure how ohtani kept that fair.
Max used twice as many pitches, but still a successful bottom of the 1st overall. Let's go offense!
Is it too early to get the robots behind the plate?
Just a terrible call but Bo can't not watch the umpire.
Looking at the replay, the pitch is high, Varsho turns towards first, the umpire says strike, then Varsho takes another step to first and throws the bat away. Did Varsho not hear the umpire with the noise? I think that extra step fools Bo.
Disgusting call by the home plate ump. Shameful.
we're on this guy.
get us back up there quick, Max.
get us back up there quick, Max.
I think he only sort of heard him, but then reacted to the combination of it was way high and Bo trotting to 2nd to think he must have misheard the fans or something. But who knows.
Sure it is a mental error by Varsho and Bo, but the first mistake is the biggest and that's the clear bad call by the Umpire.
I mean we all know a bunch of Umpires call a wider zone on 3 ball counts, especially 3-0 or 3-1, but that was beyond just a slightly expanded zone. That seemed a good 5 or 6 inches high.
Single-Walk-Single should result in a better inning.
But it does prove we can get to the pitcher.
Sure it is a mental error by Varsho and Bo, but the first mistake is the biggest and that's the clear bad call by the Umpire.
I mean we all know a bunch of Umpires call a wider zone on 3 ball counts, especially 3-0 or 3-1, but that was beyond just a slightly expanded zone. That seemed a good 5 or 6 inches high.
Single-Walk-Single should result in a better inning.
But it does prove we can get to the pitcher.
God that leaves a bad taste -- I blame the ump's terrible, late, and non demonstrative call, and Varsho for tossing the bat and fooling Bo, and Bo for not watching the ump's arm and being 100% sure it's a walk....but the bat flip is a pretty clear signal from your teammate.
That said, err on the side of caution/being certain there!
Ugh, just hate to lose out on a scoring opportunity with something so....ugh.
That said, err on the side of caution/being certain there!
Ugh, just hate to lose out on a scoring opportunity with something so....ugh.
And of course now Teo homers.
Honestly, that sequence of events might cost the Blue Jays the ballgame. That would be depressing in a regular season game against the Dodgers. It’s sickening in a WS game.
Honestly, that sequence of events might cost the Blue Jays the ballgame. That would be depressing in a regular season game against the Dodgers. It’s sickening in a WS game.
I am wondering if Bo's legs were good enough to score from second on that Kirk single. With one out he might have been held at third and then Barger struck out.
It does prove the point about the need for either full time robot umpires or at least the challenge system. If you could challenge ball/strikes that would be a key challenge to the game.
It also makes one wonder about the recent poker and sports betting arrests that happened that involved NBA players and organized sports and there has been referees involved in sports betting too. Especially with prop-bets on things like walks or balls/strikes you could easily imaging an umpire being involved in something like that too after terrible calls.
It also makes one wonder about the recent poker and sports betting arrests that happened that involved NBA players and organized sports and there has been referees involved in sports betting too. Especially with prop-bets on things like walks or balls/strikes you could easily imaging an umpire being involved in something like that too after terrible calls.
I fear the Jays are more resilient than some of the faint hearts of the Box.
😉
😉
Scherzer not getting those bottom corner calls even though he's painting his spot.
"I am wondering if Bo's legs were good enough to score from second on that Kirk single. With one out he might have been held at third and then Barger struck out."
You never know on how things would change, but if it is the same and even if Bo doesn't score (I think he would have), Barger would have been out 1.
If Clement does the same thing it was shallow CF but it was on the run and might not have had a good balance for throw home on out 2.
And even if no advance on either of those there would still be the third out to go. So can't know for sure, but very likely they score, and also likely more pitches off the pitcher and more turning over of the lineup and in general better performance.
You never know on how things would change, but if it is the same and even if Bo doesn't score (I think he would have), Barger would have been out 1.
If Clement does the same thing it was shallow CF but it was on the run and might not have had a good balance for throw home on out 2.
And even if no advance on either of those there would still be the third out to go. So can't know for sure, but very likely they score, and also likely more pitches off the pitcher and more turning over of the lineup and in general better performance.
ump is killing us.
nice bit of hitting by ohtani tho.
nice bit of hitting by ohtani tho.
I don't think Bichette would have scored on that Kirk single or on the Clement line out if the inning continued in the same way, so impossible to know if that cost the Jays a run or not, but can't assume that inning plays out the same way if the bases were loaded with 0 out. Just an awful call by the umpire, although Bichette deserves some blame there as well. Bad calls happen. Don't assume anything.
The calls certainly seem way against the Jays today. It was close at 2nd but I'm pretty sure he was just out.
What a play by Barger to keep the score 2-0. Clutch.
The strike call on Varsho was worse than the 2015 blown call on Revere.
The strike call on Varsho was worse than the 2015 blown call on Revere.
Wow. What a break on the play not made by Edman.
I am enjoying the organ player with his/her Twin Peak interludes.
Hard to overstate the magnitude of Kirk’s home run. Three-run HR in Game 3 of a tied World Series, putting them ahead in the game after some earlier garbage umpiring putting them at a disadvantage.
That was risky by Clement! If we lost a run there trying for second....but we didn't!
Ernie has been doing some bonkers things on the bases this series.
Pretty good bet this game goes late into thr night (curse you Atlantic time zone!), a lot of bullpen is coming soon. Kirk is just amazing...how does that little guy generate the batspeed?
I can't believe how guys like Clement and Barger have become such good baseball players while guys like Kirk and Vladdy have stepped up into higher spheres.
kirk just tied the all time single-season playoffs record for catchers with 5hr
Super great to have a quick shut down inning after the scoring. Keep the momentum.
I would love to see another Jays' catcher take home a World Series MVP!
LOL Freddie Freeman's raised eyebrow and sad look up after sliding at home. So good.
Love the way Lukes has learned to battle at the plate, including by fouling off high fastballs.
Surprised they pulled Glasnow here. Lefty matchup I get, but Varsho didn't look good to my eye against him. Oh well, how about another one Dalton!
Varsho struggling a bit of late. He seems to be in one of his “pop up the outside pitch” stretches. He could get hot quickly, though.
I'm not sure I pull Scherzer with how well he was pitching even with Ohtani coming up and his 2 previous AB. But we'll see, let's hope the Schneider magic continues.
Either way, can't complain about this Scherzer start - half way through the game in LA and leave with the lead and with the Dodgers starter already out this inning too.
Either way, can't complain about this Scherzer start - half way through the game in LA and leave with the lead and with the Dodgers starter already out this inning too.
Once again can we have a reliever come into the game and not give up a run.
Flu got a favourable call in the Betts PA that no doubt helped him get that key out.
Ohtani is just a cheat code. Feels unfair that the Dodgers (or any team) has him. What a masterful piece of hitting.
Maybe Fluharty should have thrown a couple of FBs, even if outside the zone, to disrupt the hitters’ timing and eye level. Ohtani and Freeman were looking breaking ball all the way.
I'm okay with a RP coming in and giving up a run. Not okay with RP coming in and throwing every single pitch near the heart of the plate against some of the best hitters in the league. Just asking for trouble. Oh and it was all the same pitch too.
I know this is “bad for baseball” but if a guy has an OPS over 1, why aren’t you just walking him in most situations? I probably would have pitched to Ohtani in the first but that’s still 8 bases instead of 4 if you just walk him.
IBB to Ohtani is not a bad idea but then you have multiple runners on for Betts and Smith and only one out. And Ohtani runs well. It’s not an easy decision.
OPS of 1 is equivalent of alternating a single with an out every other AB. So sure, the HR is way worse than an BB, but a BB every PA is better than any player in history.
So sure, worth doing when you are worried about lots of runs or can afford a base, but even the best hitters in baseball (Ohtani, Judge, Vlad in the playoffs) aren't as good as every PA a BB.
So sure, worth doing when you are worried about lots of runs or can afford a base, but even the best hitters in baseball (Ohtani, Judge, Vlad in the playoffs) aren't as good as every PA a BB.
Man. The Dodgers are just a good team. Wonderful play by Betts there.
Wouldn’t mind Lauer pitching to Ohtani, Betts, Freeman next time they’re up.
I know the numbers don't like Vlad at 1b, but he does seem to make those high IQ quick throw plays really well - and he seems fine to me on other plays too. Obviously a huge play there. A terrible 1B stays on the bag and lets the throw go by him, a bad one barely gets to it. Vlad stepped forward to cut it off and give him the chance to nail the throw.
A good catch and tag by Clement too.
A good catch and tag by Clement too.
Agreed on Guerrero having a stellar defensive year. He’s cut out those “all or nothing” mistakes and has consistently made heady plays like the one we just saw. Plus his knack for catching pop flies over his shoulder (which I like to mention from time to time).
Fudge. Fudge. Fudge. Hope George is okay. Hard to win this thing without him.
Fudge. Fudge. Fudge. Hope George is okay. Hard to win this thing without him.
The (bad) hits just keep on coming....that may be it for George this season.
winning this game just got much more important.
if he is your 2nd best RP then Hoffman should probably come in for the top of the order in the 7th tbh. Might not have to face the top of the order again.
Have to win today, then probably use Bichette as DH and Davis at second base going forward.
We haven't talked much about Carlos Febles but he has been a great 3B coach this season.
If Springer is out for the series, can the Blue Jays replace him (with Loperfido, for example)?
Yes, with permission of MLB if someone is injured they can be replaced IIRC.
But yeah, 3b coach has been great. And Vlad with hustle has been great again. He's really turned it up a notch in all aspects of his game.
But yeah, 3b coach has been great. And Vlad with hustle has been great again. He's really turned it up a notch in all aspects of his game.
after all our attention to defense this year, i'm glad the dodgers finally paid for playing a DH in RF.
seranthony against the hall of fame lefties is an interesting choice.
Phew! Big first out, getting Pages on a 3-2 pitch.
Apparently I'm on a delay using the Sportsnet App. I use the app because it's better picture quality than cable.
Am I watching on delay? I saw the brutal comment just before the Ohtani tying HR.
They have one lefty they trust, so the Jays are going to run into this problem again.
Sportsnet on cable is about 10-15 seconds ahead of Fox.
Damm. Pressed submit on the last comment then heard crack of the bat.
what on earth was that call. like that is insane. you let your roogy pitch to the best LH hitter in the world. what the hell.
Ohtani isn’t fair. Nobody should be this good.
Terrible F’ing pitch though.
Terrible F’ing pitch though.
Like I said, I would have preferred Lauer against Ohtani and Freeman.
Is Eric Lauer in the witness protection program? This would have been a good inning for him if he was available.
Seriously. I think Dominguez threw it down the middle out of spite.
I just don't understand how you can walk Aaron Judge as much as you did then not offer the same respect to Ohtani. Freeman and Betts are not playing that much better than Stanton, Rice and Chisholm.
Good point on Lauer though. I mean, why not? All the dude has done all year is pitch great for you in any role. Has Schneider simply forgotten he exists?
Schneider doesn't trust Lauer and I'm not sure why.
Off the top of my head, aside from the Yankees bullpen game, he's only pitched in blowouts.
Off the top of my head, aside from the Yankees bullpen game, he's only pitched in blowouts.
It's like they think his stuff won't play up in relief or something. They said they didn't want the Dodgers to get too many looks at the same relievers, but throw Fluharty and Varland into every game.
If it's gonna be this hard to use relievers then just let Max face top of line up a 3rd time...
The Dodgers hit Lauer pretty hard in their only meeting with him in August.
Little seems well suited to ohtani, since he rarely throws in the zone. The 3 hitter minimum is a real problem for him though if he walks him.
This is an ugly inning so far. Dominguez doesn't have it.
This is an ugly inning so far. Dominguez doesn't have it.
This is a great game (obv better if the Jays were winning).
Not looking forward to the Ohtani coming up in the 9th inning script.
Why even bother throwing Ohtani a strike the rest of the game? It’s not like he’s stealing bases like he did last year…
Why is Little on the roster if you are unwilling to use him? If you can't trust him, go to Bruihl or Nance.
Is Straw that much faster than Barger? Not sure if its worth the swap in case his spot comes up again.
I don't like that cuteness. Very risky. Please work.
yeah barger not the guy you'd think we'd need to pinch run for.
Straw is definitely faster, just seems like the type of move you'd make if he was at 2nd (which he now is).
Looking it up, Lauer started the final game in LA in August where Mason Fluharty stole a win by striking out Ohtani with the bases loaded when Hoffman was rusty & walking the world.
Both Ohtani & Freeman homered off Lauer in B1 that day. He walked both of them the second time through (Shohei intentionally).
So in their only regular season matchup, Lauer was 0/4 in getting Ohtani or Freeman out.
Both Ohtani & Freeman homered off Lauer in B1 that day. He walked both of them the second time through (Shohei intentionally).
So in their only regular season matchup, Lauer was 0/4 in getting Ohtani or Freeman out.
I think taking out another bat though is a terrible idea here given the situation.
You need that run, you need that defence if the run scores. It’ll look bad in the 10th inning if Straw has to bat.
Straw for Barger is the expected move. He's a bit better of a runner, and they want him as the late inning defensive replacement (even though Barger is a fine OF with the strong arm). They do this a lot when Barger gets the hit in a late inning like this.
Now they just need to convert. Who had Ty France as the hero for this game?
Now they just need to convert. Who had Ty France as the hero for this game?
France is going to come through against Sasaki.
If Schneider is unwilling to use two of his three bullpen lefties against Ohtani and Freeman, that's subpar roster construction.
You can't have a playoff series against the Dodgers with one lefty you will use against the top of the lineup .
You can't have a playoff series against the Dodgers with one lefty you will use against the top of the lineup .
muncy screws up the easy dp ball. 2nd defensive mistake of the ining.
come on guys take advantage.
come on guys take advantage.
who needs springer, bichette, or barger in a tie game anyways.
I was saying the same thing as y'all while watching that taking Barger out seemed premature.
It doesn't help that France and Kirk would both be prime pinch-running candidates were they to get on.
It doesn't help that France and Kirk would both be prime pinch-running candidates were they to get on.
This would be an immensely entertaining game to behold if the Jays weren’t involved.
I think Straw running and being nearer to 2nd than Barger would have extended the inning. Too bad Lukes couldn’t come through.
Bassitt has been much better vLHH than Seranthony this year, btw. If you were going to use them both in a tie game anyways then Bassitt shoulda go the top of the order.
Seranthony has dramatic R/L splits in his career.
RHB: .179/.277/.278
LHB: .248/.332/.419
His R/L split was even more pronounced in 2025:
RHB: .132/.269/.182
LHB: .277/.371/.446
Using him against Ohtani and Freeman was a choice, as UO likes to say.
RHB: .179/.277/.278
LHB: .248/.332/.419
His R/L split was even more pronounced in 2025:
RHB: .132/.269/.182
LHB: .277/.371/.446
Using him against Ohtani and Freeman was a choice, as UO likes to say.
That would have been great to see LAST inning, but great job, Chris.
Great job by Bassitt. Again, I'd leave him in for next inning even if (when) we take the lead.
Please leave Bassitt in. The Jays’ remaining lineup is in the dictionary under “thin”. Fingers crossed.
Tie game with unlimited extras, you have to get more than 1 inning out of Bassitt, right? Or just score here obviously...
If I see any more cuts to celebrities I might think I'm watching an F1 race.
Clearly the 99mph fastball won’t fool Ohtani… maybe the funky 93ish one from Bassitt can?
Yeah I’m not convinced any pitch ever thrown by anyone can sneak past this guy.
Yeah I’m not convinced any pitch ever thrown by anyone can sneak past this guy.
I'm okay with that baserunning considering the line up.
I'm not sure why they didn't start IKF with a full count.
reminder that IKF was a pinch runner this game!
Wait, how on Earth is IKF not easily at third there to the point he’s out? Come on buddy.
I'm not considering that Kirk had a good shot at a single.
Oh WOW here we go. What is Shapiro thinking right now?
so happy barger was pinch run for.
you're allowed to let Davis Schneider hit, btw.
you're allowed to let Davis Schneider hit, btw.
So if Hoffman comes in here I'm gonna have to chalk up this managing to bad moves and short sightedness.
If this is a normal in-seasom game, I understand playing for a single run. But this is against the Dodgers. You need your bats.
Removing Barger when you already lost Springer just didn't make sense. It's not like this scenario wasn't predictable.
Why bring in Hoffman. If the Jays go ahead in extras who will close?
he really did it.
straw and IKF in the highest possible leverage situations you could ever dream of.
he really did it.
straw and IKF in the highest possible leverage situations you could ever dream of.
he really did it.
Fisher, Lauer and Little left in pen. Choose poison.
Between going to Seranthony, pitching to Ohtani, pulling Barger, Schneider is going to have some questions to answer.
I also don't get why they didn't start IKF to try to force something with Varsho on a full count.
I also don't get why they didn't start IKF to try to force something with Varsho on a full count.
The stage has gotten a little too large for our manager.
I think we can all agree, definitely not one of Schneider's finest. Unfortunately has fallen victim to his occasional over managing.
I would have left Bassitt in too, fwiw. 8 pitches.
Both teams have made mistakes today.
Bichette misreading the pitch to Varsho. Edman misplaying the ground ball that preceded the Kirk home run. Plus a few other plays not made or questionable baserunning decisions.
Feels like John Schneider has made two or three questionable managerial decisions as well.
Bichette misreading the pitch to Varsho. Edman misplaying the ground ball that preceded the Kirk home run. Plus a few other plays not made or questionable baserunning decisions.
Feels like John Schneider has made two or three questionable managerial decisions as well.
so they trust every other pitcher to pitch to ohtani other than hoffman.
ohtani what are you even complaining about come on
I think the answer to the question of who closes it out is, if they take the lead in th 10th, Hoffman.
I didn’t mind the Seranthony decision. The Barger pull was totally unnecessary and stupid. Going to Hoffman isn’t the right call but it’s how Schneider has managed all year.
thanks to the IBB/CS hoffman gets out of it on 14 pitches even after a 10pitch at bat to their #9 hitter.
that's some good luck.
that's some good luck.
Good thing Ohtani came off the bag. Feels like he potentially could have stolen third as well, Hoffman has a slow delivery to the plate.
Dave Roberts looks pissed. Ohtani wanted the vanity to pad his game stats.
The silver lining is it looks like it is good Hoffman in that inning. I wonder if Lauer will end up being trusted in the end at the highest leverage.
Smoke em if you got em. This is something else.
I'm jet lagged 6 hours and don't want this game to go long (but want Jays to win).
Also that was an awesome play by IKF to keep that tag on Ohtani. Seems a simple thing but a lot of infielders don’t do that but that might have won the Jays the game should we eventually take the lead.
It feels weird now to be in extra innings without the runner on 2nd. But sure might make the innings harder.
Blue Jays are hacking now and they have a depleted lineup. Gotta figure out some way to score a run.
hey look they actually had a situation where they could have really used a fast pinch runner and didn't have one.
Imagine having Straw available as a pinch-runner.
What kind of godawful send was that with Vladdy up next? Davis was out by a mile.
This was Jays' worst managed game in a long time. Just tons of baffling decisions.
Unbelievable. Schneider’s managerial heater hit a brick wall here tonight.
Straw punch running for Barger in a tie game the most questionable of all decisions tonight.
I understand sending him....if it's close. But it wasn't close, and Vladdy was coming up.
By the way, I don't understand the blocking rule.
By the way, I don't understand the blocking rule.
So this has been a great game to watch. Schneider managing has gotten bad the longer the game has gone. I want to see who decided to send Schneider home. Can't do that with Vladdy.
It looks like a bad call sending him, but Teoscar perfectly hit the cut-off man and Edman had a perfect throw. I don't think you expect both of those. If Teoscar misses the cut off man they score. If Edman's throw isn't perfect, he's probably still out if it isn't horrible, but if it tails away from the plate and/or bounces it maybe the catcher messes it up.
The break-even on a scoring play is a lot better than advancing to other bases.
The break-even on a scoring play is a lot better than advancing to other bases.
They were never going to use Straw to pinch-run for the DH.. They ALWAYS want Straw to end up in the outfield for his defense late in the game.
Also, if they don't send Schneider, they just walk Vlad to get to IKF so I get the send.
Would have been bases loaded IKF (Robert's woulda walked Vladdy). True. So never mind okay send.
I'm on the side of the send for all the reasons buck just said tbh.
Buck makes the good point LA would have walked Vladdy to get to IKF. Contextualizes it better.
If you don’t send him home, the Dodgers intentionally walk Guerrero and it’s IKF at the plate.
Going to have to win this in spite of the manager and the coaches tonight.
Hoffman has been good tonight. Bad Hoffman would have walked Freeman there.
I hope someone's warming up as Hoffman's starting to lose the zone.
Good point about Vladdy IBB in that situation.
But yeah, the play at the plate would have been a lot closer had Straw been running.
But yeah, the play at the plate would have been a lot closer had Straw been running.
ach hoffman on 32 pitches now i don't like it.
Jeff may be tiring....that was a terrible 0-2 pitch to Teo.
ok we need a hero in the 11th. who's it gonna be?
Taking bets taking bets on Vladdy HR chances... oh wait it's not Schneider managing the other team so never mind...
for the record i'm okay with vladdy as the hero.
This is probably the best game I've ever seen. Unless it goes poorly for the Jays. But even then, Top Five easily.
Hooooo boy. Yeah I don’t have a problem with the send either: they walk Guerrero and then we’re all likely irked about how IKF can’t hit. Edman with another outstanding play because that relay throw was nails.
What a ballgame, win or lose.
What a ballgame, win or lose.
Vladdy’s just trying to hit a HR his past 3 ABs.
Don’t worry guys and gals, there’s always Heineman available to pinch run, er, hit.
of course they could have not have pinch run for France, and then had Davis to pinch hit for IKF.
Frustrating to have IKF and Straw as 2 of our 9 hitters at this point.
And high strikes again....
And high strikes again....
how about in the 13th both teams agree to start with a man on 2nd? Seems okay to me.
The remaining lineup just has too many holes in it.
I know we got 1 or 2 of them, but it seems like LA has had tons of those too high balls called strikes. Big impact to those miscalls.
Has the ump got some kind of parlay involving strikes to Varsho? That's 2 brutal calls against Dalton today.. WTF!!!
I can see both sides to the decision to pinch run Straw, but let’s be clear. Straw is one of the fastest players in MLB and it not particularly close between the two.
What? Ohtani up again this inning? That guy is always up.
Errors all around tonite - the Dodgers, the home plate ump, and our coaching staff.
might be trying to save Lauer for long man duty tomorrow i dunno
Fisher started Kike 3-0 then came back to strike him out. Impressive.
please just get mookie out so that alejandro can save us
On the flip side, Fisher got out front of Betts 0-2 but then gave up a hit to him.
Not the best moment to mention this as we all slowly erode from stress, but I love whoever is handling the organ in Dodger Stadium. It feels lively and a pointed part of the atmosphere unlike the canned noise the SkyDome still falls back upon.
Yep. Don’t let Ohtani beat you.
Yep. Don’t let Ohtani beat you.
ok, we need a hero in the 12th. Who's it going to be?
Why Schneider hasn’t trusted Fisher all year might be one of the weirdest things about this season.
Agreed Eephus. It's weird not hearing "everybody clap your hands" twice an inning.
Great pitching by Fisher to preserve the tie. Not easy to do against Betts and Freeman!
Well over 4 hours now of seriously good baseball. Certainly feels like this is the pivot point. Let's go!
Less hero ball please and more trying to get on base.
Anyone keep a scorecard at home on this one? I am pot committed at 1:25am to keep watching.
Maybe dispense with the mighty hacks and instead focus on putting a good swing on the ball.
I am not a fan of the pinch-runner decision yet again.
Straw drives Heineman in for the win.
manifesting.
manifesting.
did i ever mention how much i love our season being decided on bunts.
Well that was terrible. Blew it early in the count.
Yeah. Lucky that wasn’t a DP. Freddie is real good over there.
what the heck they just IBB'd Gimenez.
come on Davis do NOT let them survive this.
come on Davis do NOT let them survive this.
Walking Gimenez for Schneider is an interesting choice. Let's make them pay!
So many umpire calls going to LA, but that one will be overturned.
Kershaw and Scherzer in the same game in the world series, just as we all predicted!
No idea what the ump was looking at...thank god for the crew chief review!
Bases loaded. Lukes up. Two out. Kershaw pitching.
This PA could be the difference between winning and losing the game, and maybe also the World Series.
This PA could be the difference between winning and losing the game, and maybe also the World Series.
Why wasn't Tyler running sooner on the pitch???? Fortunate.
Lukes time!!!! I wonder if he'll walk....
Lukes time!!!! I wonder if he'll walk....
All too close to take... but Lukes swung at ball four thrice.
The first two foul balls were close, the last one was clearly low--he reached for it.
Yeah, but tough to take a possible strike 3 especially with this home plate umpire that seems to call a wide strike zone (although Lukes did get the lower inside pitch called a ball when it was borderline).
Let's blank this one to bring Vlad back up.
Let's blank this one to bring Vlad back up.
Tough to go down looking in that spot so I get Lukes swinging away. Great at bat. Just couldn’t get it done.
Back to a state of sheer terror.
Back to a state of sheer terror.
I agree the first two were close enough that this ump may have called them.
The last one wasn't.
Also, I would have left Fisher in there. I don't like going to your last reliever when the second last one is pitching well.
The last one wasn't.
Also, I would have left Fisher in there. I don't like going to your last reliever when the second last one is pitching well.
What's worse on paper - Fisher vs Muncy or Lauer vs Teoscar?
I would've loved to see Fisher get two more batters.
I would've loved to see Fisher get two more batters.
not too surprised that lauer is still very good, like he has been all year.
Lauer! The 2nd most trusted lefty in the bullpen!!
Those outs by Fisher and Lauer were key because if the Blue Jays can scrape out a run T13, they could potentially pitch the bottom of the inning without having to pitch to Ohtani, Betts, Freeman.
All of their hitters feel like HR threats -- Our hitters...are a bit more uneven. But let's make it happen this inning!!!!!
Given we have no Barger, Kirk, Springer, or Bichette...now we do need a hero (just one run please)
Feels like a split squad game in Dunedin with this line up.
they have an endless supply of young 100mph arms.
We better not have anyone injured by the HBP - there's no one left unless Little is going to play the field.
Jays lineup is pathetic and Dodgers still have their original 9 in.
it's kind of amazing that we emptied our entire bench for unnecessary pinch runners that didn't help and now we're stuck with this lineup.
I'm not sure where the runs are gonna come from -- Seems like every other hitter is a bench player or light-hitting in general. Need someone to hit a mistake...if we get to bat again.
It's okay, Schneider will learn and grow for next time or something like that :)
Yeah. A blue Jay is gonna have to run into one. When you’ve got IKF, Heineman and Straw spread out through your batting order…. Power just ain’t something you can expect.
The Lukes PA was the whole ballgame (even after all the managerial flubs). Don’t see the Blue Jays making it to the 14th inning. But happy to be proven wrong.
i have a feeling that pinch hit bunt is gonna get all the credit in this one.
i dunno tbh i think lauer woulda got mookie and now he''s got no leeway.
Walked them loaded -- Just HAVE to have strikes now.
I like the IBB to Ohtani, not so sure about to Betts.
lol thank god for the pinch bunt free out, Davey!
Excitement about getting out of the 13th balanced by the due up graphic reading Straw, Clement, Gimenez.
Lessons from this game:
1. never bunt
2. never pinch run
3. never steal
1. never bunt
2. never pinch run
3. never steal
Bottom of the order has been clutch this postseason -- Maybe they do it again here!!!
This game is an excellent Rorschach test of sanity. Seeing as I’m talking to that friendly elephant flowing out of the wall…. Don’t think I’m gonna pass this one (yes Pinky, that is an excellent point about international taxes though)
Not looking forward to Smith, Muncy, and Teoscar coming up again. It's now or never, boys.
I believe Kershaw and Scherzer both got their start against each other. It would be somewhat fitting if today was the last game for both of them..
Is it expected that Mad Max would go again in game 7?
Is it expected that Mad Max would go again in game 7?
Non-competitive at bats there -- Hard to believe Gimenez was IBBed in this game.
The bottom of the order has been so good recently, Schneider has made the entire lineup the quality of the bottom of a lineup. Genius move.
Even if they score off Lauer here, he's done a great job. Maybe he's more than the seventh guy in an 8-man pen.
If the Jays make it to the 15th, I think they score. I just have no idea how they do and then make it through the bottom.
If the Jays make it to the 15th, I think they score. I just have no idea how they do and then make it through the bottom.
Lauer only at 19 pitches could go on for a long time.
Maybe Bieber should go back to the hotel and get some sleep?
At this point, I hope Schneider has learned that anytime the game is close, Ohtani IBB.
At this point, I hope Schneider has learned that anytime the game is close, Ohtani IBB.
I thought that was gone. Late inning world series baseball is tough.
batflipping a flyout: https://x.com/SInow/status/1983042895583248425
Lauer challenged Teo with a FB. Don’t do that too many times!
Double play here please....I'd like to avoid Ohtani in the 15th if we survive the 14th.
Feels like we’re getting close to the end of the line here.
At what point do you consider bringing in a starter? (either side)
Well damn, this one is going to hurt me for days, Jays can win it later today though. 2:30 in the frigging morning...gotta' tap out.
lauer is pretty good, eh?
only at 43 pitches too.
only at 43 pitches too.
Tremendous pitching by Lauer. He battled and did not give in.
We need a hero in the 15th. Who's it going to be?
Lauer is a starter. I think he can go 60-80 pitches unless something obvious happens.
If the Jays take the lead they may go to Little, but I don't think that's obvious.
Ohtani is going to be up this coming inning too.
If the Jays take the lead they may go to Little, but I don't think that's obvious.
Ohtani is going to be up this coming inning too.
Great effort by Fisher and Lauer. It does feel in vain with this remaining lineup. Hopefully the top of the lineup has something to give.
You gotta let Lauer go back out there, and Little in case he runs into trouble..
If you’re bringing in Little I think it’s with a clean inning. He walks people, I don’t want that pressure with guys already on base.
So much frustration in this game. Wow. So many missed opportunities.
i can't see any reason to take Lauer out.
and Little can't go very long anyways.
and Little can't go very long anyways.
Not that I want to see Little, but Lauer seemed to be flagging a bit last inning.
In the next few games, does Schneider have to give serious thought to where he hits Bo if Bo is only a six inning player?
It's killer to have IKF hitting behind Vlad in the late innings.
It's killer to have IKF hitting behind Vlad in the late innings.
if George is out then Bo is DH and it doesn't have to be IKF cominmg in.
If Springer is injured, then Bo DH and can play every inning you'd think.
Yeah Katie, this game shows what happens when those moves go wrong, so it's foolish to not make that consideration.
Though, if he is moving to DH in place of Springer (sadly likely), maybe it's a bit easier to resolve.
Though, if he is moving to DH in place of Springer (sadly likely), maybe it's a bit easier to resolve.
If Lauer makes it through this inning, you'd think big advantage us to be through Ohtani and to have their last RP picking up pitches.
IKF almost made a catastrophic fielding play there (being too casual on the throw to first).
I just don't see how Jays score with this lineup.
This game is so long I forgot about Springer's injury!
If we get through this bottom (not trying to jinx it), it's Varsho, Heineman and Straw. Hard to see where the offence comes from.
If we get through this bottom (not trying to jinx it), it's Varsho, Heineman and Straw. Hard to see where the offence comes from.
of course he doesn't have to be married to IKF at 2B he could use Schneider there or Clement there (with Barger at 3B) it doesn't have to be IKF.
I think we're finally getting to the end of their bullpen where these guys might have a chance to score.
Varsho extra-base hit and then manufacture a run.
thank you Varsho.
and I would give Lauer another inning.
and I would give Lauer another inning.
Just wow. Varsho might have saved the game with that catch.
Klein walks a lot of guys. If Varsho can’t get a hit, a leadoff walk would be helpful.
There's no way they let Lauer face Smith and Teoscar again.
Not sure Little is better against Smith and Teoscar?
Little probably isn't better, honestly. But we don't know how far Lauer can go and Smith and Teoscar had good at bats 2nd time through.
Are we actually in the 16th inning? I’m delirious…. Terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought.
LA pen getting depleted as well. Klein now over 30 pitches.
Not envious of you in EST.. PST means it's just an hour past bedtime..
It feels like we could be given 10 more innings and we wouldn't score.
They have no pitchers left - this is the time to grind
I know they’re tired but this is a bit sad
I know they’re tired but this is a bit sad
If only we'd IBBed Ohtani one at bat sooner.. Might have hung on 5-4..
The announcers aren't calling them scrappy grinders tonight....
Yeah the defence subs are just killing the Jays offence. Can barely put up a competitive at bat against these Dodger flamethrowers (who seem to have been instructed to just throw the fastball in the zone as hard as you can, they won’t hit it)
Roberts said a position player would pitch for them in the 17th? We can't even do that - unless we have the DH take the field?
If the Dodgers have to go to a position player, it would be humiliating not to score.
Well unless the position player is Ohtani. But that would be a win for the Jays in terms of tomorrow.
Taking out Barger is one the unforgivable moves for me. Tie game, you know you're going to need more runs and you massively downgrade your offense to put a pinch runner at first base for a guy who isn't even slow or bad defensively.
Lauer has become unconscious on the mound. Brilliant, gutsy outing.
Ever-so slight opportunity for the Blue Jays to win in the 17th. Bottom of the LA order up B17. Score a run and maybe Toronto can steal a win.
Ever-so slight opportunity for the Blue Jays to win in the 17th. Bottom of the LA order up B17. Score a run and maybe Toronto can steal a win.
Though a position player for the Dodgers includes Ohtani.
That was a funny story from Schulman.
I can't help but think that but for a couple of strange decisions (pitching to Ohtani when he hit second homer, Straw for Barger) the Jays would have won this one. Let alone Bo getting picked off or IKF strangely going to third.
(I'm sure Dodgers fans are saying the same.)
I can't help but think that but for a couple of strange decisions (pitching to Ohtani when he hit second homer, Straw for Barger) the Jays would have won this one. Let alone Bo getting picked off or IKF strangely going to third.
(I'm sure Dodgers fans are saying the same.)
They've now gone an entire game (9 innings) since the Dodgers last scored in the 7th. Crazy game..
Why are we up there hacking? Working the count a bit seems wise. I guess that's Ernie's style though.
verducci says Roberts says a position player is pitching the 18th
Brendon Little, a nation turns it's lonely eyes to you.
If the Jays make it to 18, apparently a position player is facing Lukes and Vlad (and IKF).
are they allowed to use reporters like verducci for head games? would be pretty sus
Ohtani is a position player. Of course, the Dodgers may think that anyone on the Dodgers could get this lineup out.
I hope Brendon Little pitches well. Big misses so far are 1) manager pulling his players prematurely and 2) not letting Bassitt go longer
Predictions on Ohtani vs. Little? I don't like it - IBB him..
They probably said pitch around him but take your shot.
Little is going to walk in the winning run isn’t he
Little's pretty good, eh?
i say give him another.
i say give him another.
Ump has had a bad night both ways but his high leverage misses have mostly gone against the Jays.
What Klein got that call? His pitch was lower than the one Little threw
Does Yesavage have his cleets on in the bullpen like Jeter said?
Klein is tiring. Get a couple of walks or hits and win this thing. Or one extra-base hit into the alley.
Ump has been bad for both teams but that first inning) delayed) call was one of the most consequential umpiring decisions in history.
I think we need a pitcher without professional training at this point
I do like that Kirk is getting some rest.. Smith is going to be exhausted tomorrow..
amazing at bat.
Klein is pretty wiped now.
Heineman has a chance here.
Klein is pretty wiped now.
Heineman has a chance here.
Wow.. Let's hope Little has something left in the tank..
That 3-1 call was a "normal" bad call. But boy have there been a lot of bad calls.
Klein made two great pitches to get out of that jam.
Too close to take, but hard to imagine striking out at this point with him on fumes.
The four pinch runners (Straw, IKF, Schneider, and Heineken) are 1/14.
Well, it was inevitable.
Pleasure watching it with y'all. This game will be dissected for a long time.
Pleasure watching it with y'all. This game will be dissected for a long time.
Turning point game (with many turning points within the game).
Feels like the game could have gone 27 innings and the Blue Jays still wouldn’t have scored any more runs.
Night everyone, nice chatting with y’all.
Feels like the game could have gone 27 innings and the Blue Jays still wouldn’t have scored any more runs.
Night everyone, nice chatting with y’all.
We all have the same word in our minds: Inevitable. But damn, it was there for the taking.
Well it sucks to be on the wrong side of an instant classic, but what a great game.
I do want to see the umpire score card for that one as I think the Jays were jobbed by the umpire, but yeah the PR/sub and management is a little questionable.
It will also suck a lot of Springer is injured, but the only other silver lining is half the Jays starters got to rest for half the game so maybe they'll be fresher for tomorrow's game.
I do want to see the umpire score card for that one as I think the Jays were jobbed by the umpire, but yeah the PR/sub and management is a little questionable.
It will also suck a lot of Springer is injured, but the only other silver lining is half the Jays starters got to rest for half the game so maybe they'll be fresher for tomorrow's game.
Brutal
Could you create a weaker lineup than the one the jays were playing with for 7 innings with this roster? Make weakest possible lineup with hitters on roster and that was it for inning after inning.
It was LA best vs Jays worst
They did well to keep it where it was
Could you create a weaker lineup than the one the jays were playing with for 7 innings with this roster? Make weakest possible lineup with hitters on roster and that was it for inning after inning.
It was LA best vs Jays worst
They did well to keep it where it was
Love Freddie Freeman. Legit my favourite player outside of Toronto. Glad it was him at least.
I have a lot of words and feelings that I don’t think can be expressed via the English language. Such words do not properly exist yet.
I have a lot of words and feelings that I don’t think can be expressed via the English language. Such words do not properly exist yet.
I think the Kirk pinch-running decision was defensible. Notwithstanding his no slide, it for us a bases loaded situation, as Kirk would have been out at third.
I can see the argument for IKF of Bo truly can't last nine innins.
Davis is a vacuum is defensible, but the problem is that he was our last bench player other than Heineman, so it leaves you unable to ever hit for Straw.
The other thing is this goes back to my original criticism of putting France on the roster. He's too one-dimensional. If they had Loperfido instead, presumably either Davis goes into the DH spot initially, and Joey is on the bench as a pinch-hitter, or Loperfido goes in and Davis remains on the bench.
Because France is slow, as soon as he got on, they ran for him again and burned another player. They used two right-handed outfielders and a right-handed backup 1B at DH in one game.
I can see the argument for IKF of Bo truly can't last nine innins.
Davis is a vacuum is defensible, but the problem is that he was our last bench player other than Heineman, so it leaves you unable to ever hit for Straw.
The other thing is this goes back to my original criticism of putting France on the roster. He's too one-dimensional. If they had Loperfido instead, presumably either Davis goes into the DH spot initially, and Joey is on the bench as a pinch-hitter, or Loperfido goes in and Davis remains on the bench.
Because France is slow, as soon as he got on, they ran for him again and burned another player. They used two right-handed outfielders and a right-handed backup 1B at DH in one game.
After a game like that… I just don’t care. Who cares about anything. I have a flight to catch in three hours? What time is it who am I… why am I typing. It’s all a blur.
Hindsight is 20-20 but I do think Schneider and probably all managers get used to managing with ghost runner in extras. Those moves make sense to empty the bench if you have a ghost runner as it’s not going long
You have to weight this risk into the replacement decisions
If you have even 2 of Kirk, Barger, Bichette and even France then much higher chance to win that game given the drop off
Springer out kills you too
It would be like LA playing without Smith Betts Freeman and I guess Muncy for 8 innings
You have to weight this risk into the replacement decisions
If you have even 2 of Kirk, Barger, Bichette and even France then much higher chance to win that game given the drop off
Springer out kills you too
It would be like LA playing without Smith Betts Freeman and I guess Muncy for 8 innings
Absolutely right Katie about France on roster. His usage situation is so narrow and he's not even very good in that situation. Loperfido or Nance both made way more sense.
Game leaves real bitter taste in my mouth because of umpire show. Schneider has always been a push-button manager which has never been my style. Bunting doesn't work very well in the majority of situations. Pinch running should be rarely done, etc... (see how Roberts used his bench as the way I think is good). It's obviously worked for the Jays this year even if I hate it. The real issue for me was the lack of adjustment once Springer got hurt. He's your best hitter and he's injured. You have to unseratand that taking Barger out for Straw in a tie game is further going to massively weaken your offense. Maybe you put Schneider in at 2B instead of IKF because your offense is so weak. Was taking out Kirk the right call? I guess. Don't think Kirk can go 18 innings but you can't take him out once you've already take Barger and Bo out. The end result was a pathetic lineup vs the Dodgers' normal lineup. Credit to the bullpen for keeping them in it.
Game leaves real bitter taste in my mouth because of umpire show. Schneider has always been a push-button manager which has never been my style. Bunting doesn't work very well in the majority of situations. Pinch running should be rarely done, etc... (see how Roberts used his bench as the way I think is good). It's obviously worked for the Jays this year even if I hate it. The real issue for me was the lack of adjustment once Springer got hurt. He's your best hitter and he's injured. You have to unseratand that taking Barger out for Straw in a tie game is further going to massively weaken your offense. Maybe you put Schneider in at 2B instead of IKF because your offense is so weak. Was taking out Kirk the right call? I guess. Don't think Kirk can go 18 innings but you can't take him out once you've already take Barger and Bo out. The end result was a pathetic lineup vs the Dodgers' normal lineup. Credit to the bullpen for keeping them in it.
Some are letting their emotions override logic, I think. Not surprising after as brutal a loss as this franchise has ever had.
You can’t manage a tied World Series game in the 7th or 8th inning just assuming there will be extra innings (let alone nine of them). One run almost certainly wins the game in that spot and you’ve gotta maximize your odds of scoring that one run while you have the chance. If that means pinch running an elite baserunner like Myles Straw to try to score one run, you take that shot every time.
Find me a manager thinking about the 10th or 11th (or 18th) inning in the 8th of a tied WS game and you’ll have found a manager who won’t be long for that job.
You can’t manage a tied World Series game in the 7th or 8th inning just assuming there will be extra innings (let alone nine of them). One run almost certainly wins the game in that spot and you’ve gotta maximize your odds of scoring that one run while you have the chance. If that means pinch running an elite baserunner like Myles Straw to try to score one run, you take that shot every time.
Find me a manager thinking about the 10th or 11th (or 18th) inning in the 8th of a tied WS game and you’ll have found a manager who won’t be long for that job.
I don’t see how people are blaming Schneider on a night the offense got rolled by the 6.8 ERA(before the game Dodgers bullpen). The “soft underbelly” owned the best offense for 14 innings.
Agreed. I place zero blame on John Schneider for the loss. He correctly played for the go-ahead run in the moments that it was called for, it didn’t work out, and we were left with the D level Jays offence that couldn’t break through. It hurts and it stinks, but that’s what it is.
Don't forget that this D level offense won a lot of games this year with big hits from the likes of Straw, Heineman, David Schneider, etc., just not tonight. The only move I disagreed with at the time was pinch running for Barger.
In the would, could of been, Kershaw's 3-2 pitch to Lukes with the bases loaded looked like it would have been ball 4, would have scored a run with Vlad up next.
I must admit I only made it through the 13th inning as it was 2am here and I was getting the feeling a loss was coming.
In the would, could of been, Kershaw's 3-2 pitch to Lukes with the bases loaded looked like it would have been ball 4, would have scored a run with Vlad up next.
I must admit I only made it through the 13th inning as it was 2am here and I was getting the feeling a loss was coming.
don’t see how people are blaming Schneider on a night the offense got rolled by the 6.8 ERA(before the game Dodgers bullpen). The “soft underbelly” owned the best offense for 14 innings."
Because Schneider made moves that made that excellent offense, a bad offense. The lineup was a spring training lineup for about half the game for very very marginal gains. (slightly faster runner on first base).
Because Schneider made moves that made that excellent offense, a bad offense. The lineup was a spring training lineup for about half the game for very very marginal gains. (slightly faster runner on first base).
I had to bail after 15 innings so congrats to those who made it to the end.
Schneider made his moves to win in nine innings and when it didn't work he was at a disadvantage for the second nine innings. The Dodgers big four hitters were there until the end. Three of the Jays big four were gone.
The Dodgers bullpen was supposed to be weak. Their last two guys were pumping it in at 99-100. We had Lauer and Little at 90-93.
Schneider made his moves to win in nine innings and when it didn't work he was at a disadvantage for the second nine innings. The Dodgers big four hitters were there until the end. Three of the Jays big four were gone.
The Dodgers bullpen was supposed to be weak. Their last two guys were pumping it in at 99-100. We had Lauer and Little at 90-93.
I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest weighing the upside vs the downside of these moves.
How much WPA is there for Straw vs Barger when you are more likely to end up tied than win the game? You have to factor in the offensive drop off rather than just the 2pc uplift from the speed that inning. It’s actually the easier thing to just automatically do what schneider does and make every single move that helps you by 1pc at the time and damn the consequences.
The extension of this argument would be to send in Gassman as a win today approach.
How much WPA is there for Straw vs Barger when you are more likely to end up tied than win the game? You have to factor in the offensive drop off rather than just the 2pc uplift from the speed that inning. It’s actually the easier thing to just automatically do what schneider does and make every single move that helps you by 1pc at the time and damn the consequences.
The extension of this argument would be to send in Gassman as a win today approach.
Straw for Barger was what I disagreed with at the time and still dislike this morning. Tie game with another at bat to come.
If Springer is out for the series, do you replace him with Loperfido or do you need a pitcher more, so Nance?
Straw for Barger was an awful move at the time and looked worse in hindsight. What marginal upgrade is there having Straw at first base over Barger in that spot? I could at least partially understand pulling Bichette for IKF due to Bo's injury (and knowing what we know now, there's no way he would have lasted 18 innings on one leg), but there was no reason to pinch run for Barger. Absolutely unjustifiable.
Yeah the Barger/Straw move was terrible. I did a doubletake at the time.
I could understand if it was Kirk or something but Barger's not even slow. So not only do they lose his bat in a tie game, they lose the ability to pinch run for Straw for France in the 10th, when he might very well have scored instead of Schneider.
I could understand if it was Kirk or something but Barger's not even slow. So not only do they lose his bat in a tie game, they lose the ability to pinch run for Straw for France in the 10th, when he might very well have scored instead of Schneider.
Barger getting pulled was a bad move. The manager made defensive moves up one run with 3 more innings to go...then he pitched to Ohtani. That was the big mistake.
Lost in the haze of that game (or whatever you wanna call what we just endured) is that wonderful Ty Cobb story. It does remind me of Marco Scutaro cleverly taking second bass on a walk way back when, and Bautista also doing something similar I believe.
It is a delightful thought to imagine Cobb, in those old timey baggy uniforms, tip toeing around the bases, curious and eager to see if anybody notices what he’s up to.
It is a delightful thought to imagine Cobb, in those old timey baggy uniforms, tip toeing around the bases, curious and eager to see if anybody notices what he’s up to.
<i>If Springer is out for the series, do you replace him with Loperfido or do you need a pitcher more, so Nance?</i>
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MLB rules are that a hitter can only be replaced with a hitter.
Assuming Springer is out (hopefully only for today?), I'd have Bichette DHing and leading off, shifting a chunk of the lineup up 1 spot and inserting Schneider as the second baseman batting 7th.
DH Bichette
LF Lukes
1B Guerrero
CF Varsho
C Kirk
RF Barger
2B Schneider
3B Clement
SS Giménez
But unfortunately I think it's more likely they go with IKF over Schneider.
DH Bichette
LF Lukes
1B Guerrero
CF Varsho
C Kirk
RF Barger
2B Schneider
3B Clement
SS Giménez
But unfortunately I think it's more likely they go with IKF over Schneider.
"Yeah the Barger/Straw move was terrible. I did a doubletake at the time."
I am positive Jays had France up to hit for Barger if Kirk had gotten on base in the 5th/6th which is insane. Like pinch running Straw, these are extremely marginal upgrades with massive downsides. Was a bad night for Clement and Lukes to have their worst games of the playoffs too. Lukes AB against Kershaw was just awful and ended up grounding out on a pitch not close to the zone which wold have walked in a run. Clement had a hit and I think every other AB was like 1 pitch and popup.
I am positive Jays had France up to hit for Barger if Kirk had gotten on base in the 5th/6th which is insane. Like pinch running Straw, these are extremely marginal upgrades with massive downsides. Was a bad night for Clement and Lukes to have their worst games of the playoffs too. Lukes AB against Kershaw was just awful and ended up grounding out on a pitch not close to the zone which wold have walked in a run. Clement had a hit and I think every other AB was like 1 pitch and popup.
Also LA didn’t do any of those moves - they could have done to preserve the tie ahead of batting to win
If Schneider is managing the Dodgers he probably ends up with LA B team for marginal at best offensive or speed advantages
If Schneider is managing the Dodgers he probably ends up with LA B team for marginal at best offensive or speed advantages
With my usual comments on Jays relievers giving up runs I decided to actually look back at the playoff games.
The Jays have played 14 post season games. In 11 of those games a reliever came on with runners on base. In 6 of those games the reliever let some of the inherited runners score. Nine inherited runners scored. I don't think that is a good record.
The Jays have played 14 post season games. In 11 of those games a reliever came on with runners on base. In 6 of those games the reliever let some of the inherited runners score. Nine inherited runners scored. I don't think that is a good record.
I said before the series that the dodgers pen wasn't that bad and featured a whole lot of young big armed starter talent.
Anyone who had the idea that their bullpen was a bigger weakness than ours was mistaken.
Anyone who had the idea that their bullpen was a bigger weakness than ours was mistaken.
"I said before the series that the dodgers pen wasn't that bad and featured a whole lot of young big armed starter talent."
Out lineup was so weak, Yariel Rodriguez could have gone through our lineup without giving up any runs.
Out lineup was so weak, Yariel Rodriguez could have gone through our lineup without giving up any runs.
It was amazing how Vladdy kept coming up at the start of innings that had just ended in unfortunate circumstances - Lukes AB and Schneider thrown out at home
But he also did not look like the same player as he had most of the playoffs in extras - LA were hardly even pitching around him as he was getting himself out
Ohtani with Freeman behind him had 5 walks and Vladdy wa steering pitched to like he was Andy Pages
But he also did not look like the same player as he had most of the playoffs in extras - LA were hardly even pitching around him as he was getting himself out
Ohtani with Freeman behind him had 5 walks and Vladdy wa steering pitched to like he was Andy Pages
Yeah, the Barger-Straw swap was my big complaint, and I wasn't a fan of it when it happened in game 2, either (though said nothing). I just don't see how much you're gaining there vs keeping that bat in the lineup, especially when you know Bo is coming out at some point, and Kirk is a prime candidate for pinch running.
But otherwise, it was an amazing game with a crappy, inconsistent strike zone (especially vertical). I really liked how Max looked, and all the hats off to the bullpen. So many good defensive plays. Well, one more thing - if you want to pitch around Ohtani, just throw up the fingers and put him on - don't be cute about it. But no, epic game that Toronto just came out on the wrong side of.
But otherwise, it was an amazing game with a crappy, inconsistent strike zone (especially vertical). I really liked how Max looked, and all the hats off to the bullpen. So many good defensive plays. Well, one more thing - if you want to pitch around Ohtani, just throw up the fingers and put him on - don't be cute about it. But no, epic game that Toronto just came out on the wrong side of.
Why do people keep saying that Straw over Barger is only a marginal upgrade on the bases? Straw is one of the fastest players in MLB and one of its best baserunners - Barger is clearly not.
I don't blame Schneider one bit for the call, and yes, I would have hated France pinch-hitting for Barger earlier. It was a call to try and win the game, which is what you should be doing in the 8th inning. Springer and Bichette were already out (injury/health), Kirk was labouring (the broadcast noted his grimacing in pain in the 9th), and your best player and best support players were not having a great night. They likely figured they wouldn't/couldn't win the game if it extended into extras and took their shot. It simply didn't work this time.
I would say because a) the run value of the average pinch runner is very small to begin with, and b) Barger is at least an average runner, and upgrading to an elite runner from an average runner is an even smaller increase in run value than the typical pinch runner which are mostly very good runners going in for very bad runners.
It's the 8th inning of a tied World Series game with one on and nobody out. There are loads of scenarios where putting an elite baserunner over an average one in the game will help you score a run (and probably win the game).
You can't manage in that moment thinking about some hypothetical Barger AB in a hypothetical 11th inning that is incredibly likely to never come anyway. We're not even talking about an elite hitter either, we're talking about a 107 wRC+ bat.
Hindsight-based criticism if I've ever seen it.
You can't manage in that moment thinking about some hypothetical Barger AB in a hypothetical 11th inning that is incredibly likely to never come anyway. We're not even talking about an elite hitter either, we're talking about a 107 wRC+ bat.
Hindsight-based criticism if I've ever seen it.
If you go back and look at the thread above when the Straw move was made you can see several reactions that didn't like the move. So for many people it is definitely not hindsight.