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Meanwhile, in another NL East dugout...

Bobby Cox is even more hopeful than I am about the Jays.

"Under the circumstances, I think our front office has had one of the best years ever. I think we can win even more games than we did last year."

Estrada better be good; that shrewd front office gave up a lot for him, to that other team in their division; the one that's trying to win this year. I traded for Russ Ortiz, and Byrd might surprise, but on the field, the torch passed with Millwood.
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_Chuck Van Den C - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 01:27 PM EST (#97082) #
Coach: Bobby Cox is even more hopeful than I am about the Jays.

At first I was confused. Why would be Bobby Box be hopeful about the Jays? Was there a tear in the time-space continuum?

Actually Coach, I don't think it's fair to compare Cox's optimism to yours. Cox has a boss that he'd rather not publicly disparage, so he's got no choice but to say what he did. You get to speak as frankly as you'd like.

I always felt that John Schuerholz was a crummy GM. Throughout the 90's, his "brilliant" moves have been the signing and re-signing of his ace pitchers, but that simply took money, not inspiration. If you give him credit for his original signing of Pendleton (who turned into something useful despite what the numbers might have suggested), you also have to dock points for re-signing Pendleton when the team needed a DH and of course, for failing to scare up a major league first baseman.

And this off-season proved that Schuerholz, when faced with a budget, was a GM in over his head. Every stathead on the planet knew the Braves would have been better off simply non-tendering Millwood than to virtually give him away to their biggest competitor. How could a professional GM not have thought that one through?

To me, the 2003 Braves season will prove interesting for one specific reason. I am keen to see what the much heralded (and rightfully so!) Leo Mazzone can do with that cast of wouldbes, couldbes and wannabes. He may also be tasked with ushering Smoltz back into the rotation.
_Jordan - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 01:29 PM EST (#97083) #
Bobby Cox should've been the communications director for the Exxon Valdez; he could've spun it as a wonderful opportunity to study of the effect of oil spills on marine life that will help reduce the damage of such accidents in future. You say organization man, I say corporate mouthpiece.

Anyway, the Braves are in trouble, and not just because the Phillies are armed and dangerous and the Mets are bound to improve. This is a team in decline: they have aging stopgaps at three key positions, first, third and catcher; a young but injury-prone middle-infield combo; and a whole lot of question marks in the rotation behind Maddux: a worrisome Russ Ortiz, a disintegrated Mike Hampton, a perhaps pan-flashing Paul Byrd, and promising but unproven youngsters like Jason Marquis and Jung Bong. They have the best outfield in baseball, a Hall of Fame rotation anchor and a recurringly solid bullpen, but that's not going to be enough in this division. And with a thin bench and little help in the farm system, this team can't afford to lose either Jones for more than a few games. The lack of assistance from the farm system is also troubling: the Braves have only one player in Baseball Prospectus' Top 40 prospects (and Wilson Betemit hasn't convinced everyone), while none of their promising pitching prospects has even cracked High-A Ball.

If John Schuerholz was taking proactive steps to revitalize his organization, I wouldn't worry as much. But since he appears to be in a full-blown John Hart Panic, and since the corporate ownership has bigger problems to worry about, it looks to me like the Team of the '90s isn't going to enjoy the Naughts so much.
Craig B - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 01:46 PM EST (#97084) #
While I agree with most of Jordan's analysis, I am much more positive about Ortiz and Byrd, who were two of the eight or so best pitchers available on the free agent market. They are not the equal of the two who left, but they aren't chopped liver. I'm betting on 29 wins this year from the two of them.

The Braves may slip a little, and give back a win or two, maybe three or four. But by my analysis, the Phillies have got better, but only about twelve or fourteen wins better at most. That isn't going to be enough to overhaul the Braves, but it should make for a heck of a race.

The Braves still have an historically great outfield, and a great corps of starters. They have the most promising collection of young infielders in baseball. They made a very intelligent signing of Rob Fick, whose style is much better suited to Turner Field than to Comerica National Park.

In the end, Bobby Cox's confidence is well-placed, not because the GM is competent (he isn't), but because of one increasingly indisputable fact... in Robert Joseph Cox, the Braves have the best manager in the history of the game... and I imagine that Bobby knows it.
Craig B - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 01:56 PM EST (#97085) #
Damn... I wanted to add one thing and posted too early. Bobby surely knows that in the heat of a pennant race, Bobby Cox will make the right moves, bring his players together, analyze each situation correctly, and make smart moves. The right players will get on the field at the right times (most of the time).

His counterpart on the Phillies is Larry Bowa. Bobby surely knows by now that Bowa will panic, alienate his key players, yield to the pressure of the moment, do inexplicable things in crucial situations, and throw away runs and wins.
Coach - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 02:07 PM EST (#97086) #
That's high praise, Craig. I'm partial to a few other great managers, but Bobby always gives his team a chance. Rockin' Leo could also be a factor -- anything's possible, though I don't expect him to work miracles with Hampton; I think the groin problems have affected Mike's stride. This might not be the strongest division, but it's going to be interesting top-to-bottom.
Mike D - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 02:36 PM EST (#97087) #
I agree with Craig entirely. Russ Ortiz would've been a nice addition to the Jays.
_Eric C - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 04:12 PM EST (#97088) #
Russ Ortiz was obtained by the Braves in a trade, rather than a Free Agent signing.
_Geoff North - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 04:30 PM EST (#97089) #
Was Cox fired, or did he quit after the 1985 season? I have a hard time understanding both the former and the latter. Who was the pitching coach with Cox? Was it Mazzone? Or did that tandem develop with the Braves?
Dave Till - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 04:32 PM EST (#97090) #
Cox quit because Ted Turner offered him the GM job in Atlanta and threw a lot of money at him.

Cox's pitching coach in Toronto was Al Widmar, who stayed on as the Jays' pitching coach until 1989. (Widmar's claim to fame is that he was the pitching coach for both the 1987 Jays and the 1964 Phillies, which are both famous for fading down the stretch, to put it politely.)
_Matthew Elmslie - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 04:59 PM EST (#97091) #
Widmar's other claim to fame is that, in school, he was two years ahead of God's grandmother.
_jason - Tuesday, February 04 2003 @ 06:42 PM EST (#97092) #
The last couple of years everybody has tried to predict the demise of the Braves and every year they've won the division. A rotation of Maddux-Ortiz-Byrd-Hampton has a lot of questions but no more than any other rotation in their division and certainly I think the Braves rotation has the highest possible upside. The Braves bullpen is solid, the Phills is not, and the signing of Fick might seem like a minor thing but if it allows Chipper to move back to 3rd and put Castilla's awful offensive production on the bench, I think it will improve that line-up a lot. They still have a potential problem at 1st but I'd rather have what they have than Mo Vaughn. And with Furcal and A.Jones, I think the Braves certainly have the best defense up the middle, where it counts.

I will always root for the Expos, but if Coach's life was on the line I'd pick the Braves to win the division. Again.

Related Topic:

The Atlanta Braves are the Buffalo Bills of MLB. Discuss.
Gitz - Wednesday, February 05 2003 @ 06:55 AM EST (#97093) #
I like your idea so much, Jordan, I devoted some space to it. Let's pick up the thread there, shall we?
Gitz - Wednesday, February 05 2003 @ 06:56 AM EST (#97094) #
Er, that should be, I liked your idea so much, JASON. I like your ideas, too, Jordan.
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