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The fighting Jays are back. A win would have been better, but there were a few things to enjoy.

I watched the game on television with Liam over at his mother's house, which is why I wasn't participating in the game thread. Which made reading it afterwards especially interesting. And of course, it's still growing as I write this. I feel like Tristram Shandy...

So first, a few noteworthy posts that caught my eye:

Field turf may have helped the Jays there on all three plays the Jays got outs on. A couple of them may have gotten through on the old Astroturf.

I agree absolutely - Elijah posted that after Hudson's fine play on Varitek's bouncer up the middle. No one makes that play on the old surface, and there are lots of second baseman who don't get to that ball on any surface.

The Blue Jays infield defense is going to look a lot more impressive than it has in years. That doesn't mean they'll actually be better (although they will), but infielders from both teams will be getting to balls they didn't get to before because this surface will slow them down a lot more.

This is actually something that helps a defensively challenged team more than a good one. If you have really good defenders, what you do is make the field difficult - your guys can handle it, but the other team can't. Earl Weaver once said that the smartest thing he did his first year in Baltimore was shave the infield grass practically out of existence - he had Brooks Robinson, Mark Belanger, and Davey Johnson. They could make plays anyway.

Paul S
That scoreboard is going to give Jamie Campbell more trouble than the fielders.

Indeed it was the scoreboard. I was thinking at the time that Jamie was sitting in a fairly new location, and my own experience at the Dome is that when you're not in the seat you're accustomed to, you have no idea where fly balls are going. All you can do is watch the fielders, they generally tell you. I was in the football press box (way down the left field line) for the 1993 World Series and I thought Carter's homer was a pop up to third, until I saw Incaviglia running for the wall.

Hinske looks like a different ballplayer, and not just different from last year.

Liam said "look how he's changed his stance." Hinske himself had said that his hand injury had thrown off his mechanics at the plate, but that he and Mike Barnett had addressed the problem and he was optimistic. And it looks very promising to me. The most obvious thing you can see is that his hands seem to be higher and further back than they were last year. The overall result is that he seems to be in sync - his hands are body are moving in a proper rhythm to get the bat into the hitting zone with speed and power. When I think of last year, it was as if he got the bat started after he got his body started. He didn't have good bat speed, and he was effectively hitting just with his arms.

The dinger off Embree was very impressive. A LH throwing gas, and he turned on an inside baseball and crushed it. No way he does that last year. Just no way.

Oh yes... your Blue Jays player of the game:



Yes, the living room was filled repeatedly with cries of "DUDE!" We are looking forwards to lots, lots more of that.

And honourable mention: Yo! Vinnie! The Incredible Chulk was very very sharp in his season debut.

King Ryan
God, this lineup is so tough. None of them would bite on Bush's breaking pitches, and the two times he leaves a fastball up, they've been knocked out of the park.

As it happens, King Ryan, I had decided that the very thing I wanted to focus on during this game was exactly how Bush and Zaun went about attacking that lineup. For one thing, it's a nice battery for such a project. Zaun is willing to be different back there. Some of you may remember him talking about being willing to pitch "backward" - in other words, stuff like throwing a breaking ball on a 2-0 count. And Dave Bush has to pitch to be effective. He has to hit his spots and move the ball around. Bush and Zaun tried to set up the Boston hitters. Whereas when Brandon League came in, Zaun basically just held his glove in the middle of the plate. It didn't work out tonight, of course...

So what were they up to?

Bush seemed to be feeling a little bit for the strike zone in general, and Tim Timmons' strike zone in particular. It seemed a little tight - fair, but tight - and it did take them a while to identify it.

Bush throws four pitches. He has a two seam fastball with a bit of sink on it. He generally throws it around 88 MPH low and away to a LH hitter; his four seam fastball comes in a wee bit quicker - about 90-91 MPH - and he throws it up in the strike zone. He has a slider that he throws in the low 80s. His fourth pitch looks to me like a very slow curve. I know the broadcast crew was calling it a change-up, and indeed it's certainly a drastic change of speed. He throws it in the high 60s. Like a Candiotti knuckleball. But it moves much more like a curveball. It doesn't even remotely resemble Foulke's changeup, for example. Foulke's change looks exactly like his fastball - except it's coming in at 74 MPH instead pf 87.

So some observations. Here, for example are the three Johnny Damon at bats against Bush.

Each of the Damon at bats saw Bush use both his slider and curve as well as his fastball; each time he tried to get ahead of the hitter with pitches low and away; each time, he eventually came inside and that was the pitch that Damon finally put in play.

First time up, Bush got ahead of Damon 0-2 with a two-seamer and a pair of curves, one of which Damon fouled off. Bush then threw his first slider of the night, hung it a little, and gave up a hit.

Second time, Bush started him off with a slider. It missed, but I liked the gumption - throw the same pitch the guy hit last time. Pretty good bet that it's not what he was looking for. Bush then pounded three fastballs at the outside corner to bring the count to 2-2. He mixed in a curve, which Damon fouled off. Bush then threw a four seamer in on him, and got the ground out to second.

Third time, Bush started Damon with a curve that missed away; evened the count with a two-seamer low and away; missed with a slider that hung but was high out of the strike zone; and then came inside with a fastball that got Damon on a flyball to left.

Trot Nixon also batted three times against Bush, and it looked as if they wanted to see if Trot could still catch up to a major league fastball. They threw him three fastballs his first time up - low and away, outside for a ball, low and in the middle of the plate - and got him to fly out to left.

Second time, Bush started Nixon off with a slider that Nixon fouled off. He then threw six fastballs in a row - high, low, inside, outside - and Nixon hit the last one over the fence. I thought it might have been one too many, but hey... it's easy to take the test after you know the answer.

But they didn't do that again. Nixon's third time, Bush got ahead 0-2 with a couple of fastballs, low and away and then in on his fists. He then missed with a couple of curve balls to go 2-2. He got him to ground out on a slider.

I think I missed a couple of pitches (especially during Mueller's first at bat), but I have Bush throwing 19 curves and 11 sliders. The other 50 or so pitches were fastballs. In the early ininngs, he was mostly throwing fastballs. He was generally always mixing in the breaking ball, but very much relying on the hard one. After the third inning (18 pitches, 14 fastballs, including six in a row to Nixon) you can almost see him and Zaun having a chat in the dugout and changing things a bit. In the fourth inning 5 of 9 pitches were curves or sliders; in the fifth inning 8 of 14 pitches were breaking balls.

The slider was not working very well during the first three innings. Damon got a base hit, Ortiz took one for ball four, and four others missed the strike zone. What I like is that he didn't ditch it. He started Mueller with one in the fourth and went ahead 0-1; he struck out Bellhorn with a slider in the fifth, and retired Nixon with another, his last pitch of the evening. He threw them mostly to LH hitters - granted, there were six LH hitters in the Boston lineup. But Ramirez and Renteria didn't see the slider at all. He did throw a couple to Kevin Millar. He threw that curve ball of his to everyone, and got three outs with it: Renteria both times, and Manny Ramirez in the third. No one did anything with it, and he threw it for strikes often enough.

The other thing I wanted to look at was what he went to on the telling counts: 0-0, 0-2, 2-0, and 2-2.

0-0: First time through the order, everybody got a fastball. Second time through the order, he started mixing things up. He started Damon, Nixon, Millar, and Mueller with sliders; Varitek, Bellhorn, and Damon (third time) with curves.

0-2: The classic thinking here is "waste a pitch and see if he chases it." Zaun doesn't think much of that idea, and I'm with him. Bush had four 0-2 pitches. He threw a curve which Damon fouled off, and then a slider that Damon hit for a single. He threw David Ortiz a fastball that missed high. And to Trot Nixon, he threw a curve that missed away. I like the approach - no waste pitches - alas, no outs recorded and a hit surrendered.

2-0: The conventional wisdom is that you have to throw a strike, so here comes a fastball. Tommy John, among others, begs to differ. John once said that "the same pitch that batters take for ball one and two, they'll swing at and ground to short on 2-0, because they think you're supposed to throw a strike." Bush didn't rock this boat. He threw Manny Ramirez a curve in the dirt on 2-0, but it's Manny Ramirez. You don't tug on Superman's cape. Millar, Varitek, and Millar again all got fastballs low and inside. Millar fouled both off; Varitek took a strike.

2-2: This is the count where, as Tom Boswell once wrote, "you're most likely to find out the pitcher's true opinion of both his strength and the batter's weakness." We had a number of them:

David Ortiz, first inning. A fastball inside on the hands, which Ortiz fouled off. Count still 2-2, Bush threw a curve which missed inside to run the count full.

Johnny Damon, second inning. A curve on the outside corner, that Damon fouled off. Count still 2-2, Bush threw a fastball inside and got the groundout.

Trot Nixon, third inning. A fastball, missed inside.

Bill Mueller, fourth inning. Fastball, low and away, fly out to left.

Mark Bellhorn, fifth inning. Slider, high outside, swing and a miss.

Trot Nixon, fifth ininng. Slider, down and in, groundout.

OK, I should stop all this soon. But I'm pretty sure that now that Miguel Batista is no longer in the rotation, Bush will be the most rewarding and interesting pitcher to watch with this kind of attention.

Red Sox 6, Blue Jays 5 | 23 comments | Create New Account
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Heraclitus - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 04:12 AM EDT (#110148) #
Just to add a few thoughts about the "in-game experience" to those mentioned in the game thread:

1) The stuff getting hucked around was really atrocious - and sadly, quite forseeable. The same thing more or less happened last year. Why not have extra ushers to jump on this early and dissuade copycats? I was in 524, and it looked like there was one one usher covering about three sections for the first four innings. I felt just awful every time I saw one of the magnetic schedules being tossed - surely some people in the 100 seats must have gotten hit - and those could really hurt. It would have been nice to see the police making a show of ejecting people in the first inning, not in the eighth.

2) Some of this might just be due to extra razzmatazz on opening day, but from the stat-nerd standpoint, the scores and displayes were slightly lacking:
- before the game started, none of the boards were showing the starting lineups.
- between innings the ribbon boards all cut to ads and flashy graphics, and the game score disappeared. As far as I could tell, between innings, there was no place showing the score of the game in progress!
- The at-bat player's stats on the ribbon board were a liitle hard to read, especially Boston's, with the text on a bright red background.
- The stats showed OBP, but no slugging percentage, which kept me from doing a quick OPS calculation in my head. (look -- we all enjoy the game in different ways, okay?)
- There didn't seem to be any place showing any scoring notes.

Some of these, especially the last one, could just be me not being used to where to look for things (or looking where they used to be!) and, like I said, maybe some of it was just first day jitters. (Rogers Centre to fans: "It's my first day!")

But the turf was really nice to see. And the game pretty much redeemed itself in the ninth inning. Sometimes almost (but not quite) coming back in the ninth can feel like a real heartbreaker, but it felt like a moral victory last night.

brent - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 06:12 AM EDT (#110150) #
For those of us out of country, please feel free to post as many pictures of the games as you want!
Magpie - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#110154) #
I felt just awful every time I saw one of the magnetic schedules being tossed

A worthy sentiment - but if they were like last year's schedule magnets, not much to worry about. (They were soft, light, and floppy.)

I thought the outfield wall scoreboards looked kind of... I dunno... Viva Las Vegas? on TV. Kind of neon and garish. I'll see it in the flesh this afternoon. Apparently Johnny Damon cut his arm for six stitches on one of them. We will hear more about that.

Yes, that was Geddy Lee. I'm sure of it. And it looks like he's got new, better, seats this year. He's usually down around third base. He may have just wanted a really good view of Slash...

And Slash was fine.

Dave Till - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 08:50 AM EDT (#110155) #
I have a feeling that those wall scoreboards aren't going to last very long. Fielders are having trouble with them - and, apparently, a collision with the plexiglass walls will be very painful.

I was sad about the loss, of course, but at least the Jays put up a good fight and offered up an entertaining game for the home opener. Had they been blown out 11-2, everybody would have turned back to their sports pages and started reading about the hockey negotiations again.

The new turf looks good.

The Jays' pitching is better than it looked last night. Bush will do better with a home plate umpire that doesn't have a tight strike zone. He started out trying to hit the outside corners, didn't get the calls, and had to adjust inwards, which put his pitches into the Boston batters' hitting zone.

Speaking of which: the Red Sox are rather good, aren't they? People who complain about Moneyball should spend some time watching the Sox, as they epitomize the "modern" way of doing this. (Actually, this approach dates back to Earl Weaver, at least.) The Sox are, to a man, patient at the plate. They foul off borderline pitches, work the count, and then crush the fat hitter's count offerings.

I thought League was a bit unlucky - he gave up a few bloop hits before ruining his outing by throwing that tailor-made double play ball into centerfield.

If the Jays keep playing like this, they will have better days, and they will be worth watching and following all year long.
Pistol - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#110157) #
I agree about League, he did seem unlucky last night.

I'm sure there's times when a pitcher throws to the 2B on a double play, but that seemed to be a pretty bad mistake last night. I assume that he threw to Hudson (or at least tried to throw to Hudson) because when he turned towards second the first thing he saw was Hudson running that way (although Hudson was cleary backing up the play).

I'm starting to think Dudeski may have turned it around. I know it's only 4 games, but he's been driving the ball - 2 home runs and a double already.

On the other hand, despite hitting .313 right now I'm not at all optimistic about Hillenbrand. It's not so much that he swings at everything, but he doesn't seem to be making swings that are going to do anything but produce singles.
Gerry - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#110159) #
I was also at the game, a couple of other comments....

The small screen showed pitch speed. I am happy to report that Zaun was throwing back to Bush at 48 mph in the first few innings, that dropped to 44 in the middle innings and I saw a 41 in the ninth as he obviously tired. Needless to say, the pitch speed system needs work.

The out of town scoreboards showed the AL in left field and the NL in right field. If you were sitting in right field, as I was, it was almost impossible to see the NL scoreboard. It makes more sense to rotate both leagues through the boards, so all fans can see the scores. Also, no minor league scores?

Agree with other on the ball, strike boards and the losers in the 500 level. I was concerned before the game when Slash received a bigger cheer than any of the players.

VBF - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 09:47 AM EDT (#110160) #
I'm sure there's times when a pitcher throws to the 2B on a double play, but that seemed to be a pretty bad mistake last night. I assume that he threw to Hudson (or at least tried to throw to Hudson) because when he turned towards second the first thing he saw was Hudson running that way (although Hudson was cleary backing up the play).

The sad thing about that play was that you knew he was going to overthrow it.

I also felt bad for the ball that went off Koskie's glove and into the outfield. The people at the game were just all over the Jays last night for that stuff. I wanted to puke when some loudmouth yelled out suggesting that we should cut Orlando Hudson. But I shouldn't let those people bother me since I doubt I'll see them again at the RC.

The problem with the boards that I had was the small font of the pitch count. I had to squint from the 500 level to see it. And I would have wished that the score could still remain up for the entire duration of the game.

I think the crowd will be better today and we should be getting a good matchup. The cowbell shall be appearing in section 141 today cheering on Vernon.

Elijah - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#110161) #
Unrelated to this game but to comments in the Game 3 thread about who's faster: Joey Gathright or Carl Crawford.

Robert mentioned he timed Crawford for 12.6 off the crack of the bat for a triple. Last night, Gathright hit a triple in the 10th off Juan Cruz to help the Rays beat the A's. ESPN SportsCenter timed him at an insane 10.7.

That's... fast.
Magpie - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#110162) #
Oh, one other thing I guess. Last night, curiously enough, was my first opportunity to hear the new broadcast team. I thought they were fine and will only get better.

I don't mind a guy mis-speaking from time to time - it's gonna happen - so long as he catches himself, and corrects it. We've had broadcasters who sailed on, seemingly oblivious of the howling errors they have just made. Not gonna happen with the new play-by-play guy. I like his focus.

Is it just me, or does Jamie's voice seem deeper when you're not looking at him? People's voices always sound different when you're not seeing them.

Jamie looks rather boyish and youthful to me. Of course, everybody looks fairly boyish and youthful to me, except maybe Walter Cronkite and Vin Scully. They have gravitas.

Zao - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#110163) #
My thought about the Rogers Centre last night:
-due to the lines outside I didn't get to my seat until 7:35
-yes, the plane throwing fans were morons
-the fans redeemed themselves in the 9th by making so much noise. I can't remember ever hearing the place so loud in a regular season game.
-the "wallboards" should be blue like the rest of the wall. You can't see the ball in front of them (I wonder if baserunners can pick it up). I thought the double was caught and my friends thought it was a home run.
-Once the Jays get used to the wallboards they should be a nice homefield advantage as opposing teams will have trouble with them. That's if we don't lose all our outfielders to injury. Also it'll be fun to see some crazy bounces off of them. I like stadiums with character. I just don't like the bright green.
-nice to not hear the fake clapping and other sound effects over the sound system.
-I like the new PA announcer. Nothing against Murray Eldon but he sure did make alot of mistakes last year.
-Best opening day crowd ever after losing 94 games the year before? kinda surprising. I guess slash, no hockey, and night game were factors.
-the game was pretty exciting but there were too many distractions. Once I get used to the new look, and once people stop throwing things it should all be good.
the shadow - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#110166) #
I am most impressed by the improvement in defense and range at 3rd and 1st base, quite impressive.
GrrBear - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#110167) #
I was sitting in right-center field on the 100 level (2nd row - Flex Packs rock!), and I'm happy to say nobody in our section threw anything at the field. I think that's because they were too busy drinking and heckling. :) Among the usual 'You suck, Nixon!' phrases were a couple of funny ones:

'Hey, Damon, you're too low-brow, why don't you go home?'

'Hey, Timlin, you're garbage, why don't you give back your '93 World Series ring?'

(To Johnny Damon) 'Hey Castaway! Where's your buddy Wilson?'

For a while there, I thought I was in Yankee Stadium. And pity poor Jay Payton, who came on as a defensive replacement for Damon in the ninth:

'Johnny! You cut your hair!'

'Payton? You're still in the league?'

(after Payton flinches at a foul ball hit down the line)
'You call that a reaction time? You've got the reflexes of a dead man! You couldn't win a Gold Glove at DH, Payton!'

Probably the best part for us was when Trot Nixon hit his home run into our section, only a dozen seats away from my spot, and we all started a chant of 'Throw it back!' This went on for about half a minute before the guy who caught it yelled, 'I'm keepin' it, so shut up!'

I don't expect to hear as much heckling at future games, but it was interesting to have a different experience.
Mike Green - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#110169) #
No fake clapping. Great. I've got to get down to see a game pronto.

Nice job, Magpie. Bush has never been afraid of surrendering the solo homer. That's a characteristic that goes back to his early minor league days, and one that he shares with his comparables. I am quite sure that you'll find his pitching pattern varies depending on whether there are men on base.
brels - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#110170) #
I was there last night, a few thoughts/comments

- Turf is great, hugh improvement; the new screen is crisp, but almost too much information on it...small text too

- I thought showing a pitchers ERA on the main screen was a little cruel, at least this early in the year where one bad inning inflates this stat dramatically. After one inning you were left looking at the reminder that Bush's ERA was a hefty 9.00

- There were a lot of elderly people there, many had the 'deer in the headlights' look during the opening ceremonies

- AS noted already, there were lots of paper airplanes and magnates raining down, goes to show the stupidity that arises from the 'crowd mentality'. I was in the 100 level, never got hit but it was close a few times. The magnets were coming down hard.

- The outfield screens that form part of the outfield wall have to go!! There are extremely bright. Wells and Gross already said it will limit their ability to go after balls at the wall. Plus Damon's 6 stitches from his collision. Please Rogers, admit this mistake and get rid of them.

- Too much advertising on the wrap around score boards, how about showing actaul baseball scores or stats and stop trying to sell something

- I really like what I am seeing from Hinske

- Too bad the top of the batting order did nothing until Koskie's hit in the 9th

Lastly, I know it is only one game, but I can't help but wonder what it would have meant to the season to have pulled out that 9th inning comeback. The crowd was their usual quiet selves until the bottom of the ninth, when they really woke up. There was some real energy and excitement! If O-Dog cashes in those runs it gives the team a huge boost and the fans a huge boost. Today is another day, but I think that could have be a real catalyst to their April/May beginning (fans and team).

Jobu - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#110172) #
I LOVED the lack of artificial clapping in the RC last night. Last year, oh so many chants and man made claps that were just starting to spread outward were silenced by the robotic Adams Family, or as I called it the "Automatic Crowd Killer". Imagine the 9th last night if we had to hear the ACK everytime a Jay stepped back in the box.....*shudder*.

Here's hoping they dont change their policy on smaller crowd days and the Cheer Club can once again induce the DaVanon Syndrome

the shadow - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#110173) #
Just an aside, 12 of the 14 teams in the AL now have identical 2-2 records
timpinder - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#110174) #
I was at the game last night and I was very impressed with both the team and the new improvements at Roger's Cenre. The Jays were in it for the entire game despite a costly error by B. League and the fact the Arroyo was on and Bush was a little off. Their young core is only going to get better and they still have $30 million more a year to spend on a front end pitcher and a big bat or two. I liked the atmosphere at the Roger's Centre (except for the morons throwing stuff on the field) and I really like the Jays team which can only improve. I do not think they were out-classed by the Red Sox at all and should be a contender next year and exciting to watch this year.
robertdudek - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#110177) #
ABout Crawford v Gathright. I mentioned 12.6 - my error. It was actually 10.6 seconds. And a lot depends on how you time it, so the figure posted above for Gathright isn't comparable to the one I timed for Crawford.
Fawaz - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#110180) #
Maybe it's something about the Sox that mutes the Jays' fielders, but remember an identical collision between Shannon Stewart and Wells at that same spot (off Manny's bat?) a couple of seasons ago. I wasn't there this time so I don't know what effect noise may have had, but without the benefit of another replay I'd suggest that ball could have been caught.

I like that Koskie is willing to take charge on balls to his left and even cut in front of Adams, but the dive to knock it away was a poor decision. That was hardly a bullet requiring a split-second decision. Perhaps more familiarity will give him an idea of what his shortstop can do, but he should have known where Adams was playing and that it would have been an easier play for him.

It's interesting that, save for the League error (a biggie), the gaffes we might expect from a young team came from some of the veterans.

Of course, the ninth made it all better :)
Chuck - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#110181) #
Is it just me, or does Jamie's voice seem deeper when you're not looking at him?

I agree. I don't know if it's partly because we don't see him or whether, I don't know, he's taking something. Maybe rubbing some cream on his throat. Some clear cream. Maybe some flaxseed oil.

Jamie still sounds new to the job, which I don't intend as a slight. I am very optimistic that he will grow into it and become very good. He will eventually talk less and let the pictures speak for themselves more and more. That will come with confidence.

Now, as for the guy riding shotgun, let's just say that there is less optimism on that front.

mathesond - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#110183) #
Just an aside, 12 of the 14 teams in the AL now have identical 2-2 records

See - you don't need revenue parity to get on-field parity!
hugh - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#110184) #
I didn't get a chance to see the new big screen, as I was sitting right under it. Actually, the jays sold us tickets for seats that didn't exist (they were where the big GM Home Run Challenge box was), and they relocated us to the non-drinking section, which they quickly relabelled as the do-what-you-want section.

Lots of hilarious heckling of Damon, from there.

I was pleased by the game, especially the noise in the ninth but I think that the lack of fake claps and chants might have made the morons throw more know, idle hands and all that.

Mike Green - Saturday, April 09 2005 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#110185) #
Here's a reminder to those at the park: DUUUUUUDE works well when Hinske comes to the plate (it's not boo, it's not Lou, it's Dude).
Red Sox 6, Blue Jays 5 | 23 comments | Create New Account
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