Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The best thing about baseball is that you can do something about yesterday tomorrow.
-- Manny Trillo

Before I get rolling, did anybody see the play David Wright of the Mets made on Tuesday night against the Padres? Brian Giles hit a blooper over third base into shallow left - Wright turned and sprinted back after the ball, which twisted away from him at the last second - he dived headlong, caught it with his bare hand fully extended, and somehow held on to it as he came crashing back to earth. The most amazing play I've seen in years and I've been watching the O-Dog all year long. Just breath-taking.

I'm going to see Jeremy Bonderman pitch this afternoon. It so happens that one of the very first pieces I wrote on this site was on the general subject of winning 300 games, and in the comments I named as my sleeper pick to win 300 none other than... Jeremy Bonderman.

Bonderman is still just 22 years old, and he now has 30 lifetime wins. OK, he's got a long way to go.

Anyway, Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux will not be active that much longer, one would think. If Maddux retired at the end of this season, I wouldn't be that surprised - he's still a solid rotation starter, but no longer a great pitcher, and the Cubs are going backward. Clemens has been the best pitcher in baseball this year, and there's no reason to expect a rapid decline. It's just a matter of how many more hotel rooms he cares to visit.

It hasn't been a great year for the three men closest to 300 - Tom Glavine is still a decent pitcher, but he's working for a team that doesn't help him very much - he's at 270 and moving very slowly. Randy Johnson is up to 257, but he has clearly lost some effectiveness, and is having a lot of physical problems. Mike Mussina's 11 wins have him at 222, but he's starting to break down too. Pedro Martinez, at 194 wins, is the only contender still pitching like an elite pitcher, even if it's not quite the Pedro of five years ago.

If none of these guys make it, which is quite possible, we will have no active 300 game winners. Unless someone like Bonderman and Prior, now at the beginning of their careers, eventually gets there. And it'll be quite some time before we know it.

Has there ever been a moment in baseball history when there were no 300 game winners active? (There have of course been great stretches of time when there was no one active who already had 300 wins.)

Well, sure. Anytime before 1888, which is when Pud Galvin became the first man to win 300 games. What about since then?

Galvin's career ended in 1892 - by then, two of the greatest pitchers of all time, Cy Young and Kid Nichols, had both started their careers.

Young passed Galvin as the career leader in 1903, and pitched until 1911, which was Pete Alexander's rookie year. Christy Mathewson and Walter Johnson were both active as well.

Alexander left the game in 1930 - by then Lefty Grove had pitched five seasons in Philadelphia. Grove made it to 300, hanging on by the skin of his teeth, until he won his 300th and final game in 1941.

This was a close one. Early Wynn made his debut in 1939, but didn't pitch in the majors in 1940. Luckily Grove was still around. Wynn was back to stay by 1941, and was active in 1942, 43, and 44. But he missed the 1945 season. Warren Spahn made his debut in 1942, but then went to war. He didn't return until 1946 (which is when he actually won his first game.)

There we are - there were no 300 games winners active in 1945.

Since then, we haven't missed a beat. Spahn was active from 1946 through 1965. By 1965, both Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro were active. By the time Niekro finally packed it in, both Clemens and Maddux had begun their careers.

So 1945 is the only year when there has never been a 300 game winner active, and this is entirely because of the War. Otherwise Wynn and Spahn would both have been pitching (never mind the men who might have made it to 300 if not for the war, most notably Bob Feller and Red Ruffing.)

The fact that there has always been a 300 game winner around - even if we don't yet know who it is - somehow reassures me. Even if Clemens and Maddux are both gone in two years, even if the Unit, the Moose, Glavine, and Pedro all fail to make it - someone among us almost certainly will. Because the present so often resembles the past. And the future, as the late great Dan Quisenberry once remarked, is much like the present, only longer.

Anyway, Bonderman's my sleeper! Barry Zito, by the way, didn't get the decision, in Oakland's win over the Angels last night. Zito, with 83 wins at age 27, is almost certainly not going to make it. But 200 wins is obviously within reach, as it is for Toronto's own Roy Halladay. Doc's now doubtful as far as returning to the rotation on Monday. He shut it down after pitching three simulated innings. The leg got a little stiff, although his stuff was apparently "explosive."

The schedule today:

AL
Detroit (Bonderman 13-8, 4.05) at Toronto (Downs 0-2, 5.75) 12:37
Los Angeles (Byrd 9-7, 4.04) at Oakland (Blanton 7-9, 4.10) 3:35
Tampa Bay (Waechter 4-7, 5.27) at Baltimore (Chen 8-6, 4.24) 7:05
Texas (Wasdin 1-1, 4.17) at New York (Proctor 0-0, 5.16) 7:05
Cleveland (Millwood 5-9, 3.12) at Kansas City (Carrasco 5-5, 4.29) 8:10

NL
St.Louis (Mulder 13-5, 3.79) at Chicago (Maddux 8-9, 4.57) 2:20
Pittsburgh (Fogg 5-7, 4.96) at Colorado (Francis 11-7, 5.37) 3:05
New York (Glavine 8-9, 4.50) at San Diego (Williams 5-8, 5.16) 3:35
Arizona (Webb 9-8, 3.91) at Florida (Moehler 6-9, 3.79) 7:05
San Francisco (Schmidt 8-6, 4.28) at Atlanta (Hudson 8-6, 3.43) 7:35
Washington (Drese 7-11, 5.55) at Houston (Pettitte 9-8, 2.64) 8:05
Philadelphia (Lidle 9-9, 4.58) at Los Angeles (Perez 6-6, 4.67) 10:10

This Day In Baseball: 11 August 2005 | 24 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Rob - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#125245) #
I just watched that highlight at MLB.com. Wow. Tom Wolfe would be proud of his stuff.

Go to David Wright's multimedia page if you haven't seen it. It's the "No Hands" play.
Pistol - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#125247) #
Interesting timeline Magpie. It's possible that King Felix will be the next 300 game winner (only 299 to go!).

Maddux should reach his innings threshold which will kick in a $9 million contract for next season. I expect that he'll be back. Of course then again it wouldn't be shocking to see him announce his retirement after the season to little fanfair.
Brett - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#125248) #
And last night, Wright had four hits, six RBI and was part of a double steal. Only 22 years old...

Barry Bonds hasn't played this year, but NL managers continue to club themselves over the head with intentional walks.

The Padres intentionally walked Cliff Floyd to pitch to Wright, who had already singled and doubled and was having the series of his life. Wright hit a three-run homer, of course.

The Cubs endured a horrific 4th inning in which their pitchers walked six batters, including three with the bases loaded. Adam Dunn was intentionally walked with two out, after two batters had already been walked in. Sure enough, another batter was walked to load the bases, and then another.

And in Los Angeles, the Dodgers intentionally walked Bobby Abreu with the game tied and a runner on second in the 9th. That was followed by a walk to Pat Burrell, and a Ryan Howard grand slam.

I hate the intentional walk; enough said.
3RunHomer - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#125254) #
300-win Dark Horse: Mike Mussina. If he can somehow pitch 6 more seasons he'll have a shot. He's at 222 and counting, and he'll be 37 in December. It ain't impossible ...
Gitz - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#125261) #
Interesting point about Mussina. Also in his favour? He throws that funky knuckle-curve, which could easily be adapted to a "straight" knuckler. And if he can master that pitch, he could pitch until he's 45, 46, easily.

For multiple reasons we see starters turn into relievers near the end of their careers, so why not have more starters turn into knuckle-ballers? Or at least give it a shot? Youneverknow.
AWeb - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#125263) #
Until last year, Andy Pettitte looked like he had a shot at 300. If he can stay healthy (the always heard refrain about all-time numbers) from here on, he's on about the same pace as Mussina. And he's pitching well now.
King Ryan - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#125267) #
David Wright's catch was pretty cool, but it didn't look especially difficult to be honest. I would guess that players make catches like that in cricket fairly routinely. Meh. I'm a tough critic.

John Northey - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#125270) #
A good question is, would the voters put Mussina in with 300 or not. Moose looks a lot like the pitchers version of Palmeiro, very good for a long time but never looking like a HOF'er. No 20 win seasons, once was 2nd in Cy voting but without a single first place vote (he did have a first place vote in other years but never finished higher than 4th), 5 time all-star is in his favour, but never above #20 in MVP voting, never won an ERA title, good but not great on K's, did lead the league in wins once (19 in 1995), lots of grey ink, little black.

His top comparables by age does not include any HOF'ers but a lot of very good but not quite good enough guys (Gooden for the last 3 years, Jack Morris before than, Saberhagen before that). His top 10 compariables right now includes just one HOFer (Dazzy Vance) and is again a Hall Of Very Good list (Gooden/Schilling/Brown/Wells/Key/Welch/Cone then Vance follwed by Warneke/Hershiser).

If he gets to 300 he'll make it, but he would be the first big debate for 300 winners since Niekro took 5 years to get in.
John Northey - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#125276) #
Thought I'd check Glavin as the years listed seemed a bit short for 300 wins. Pud Galvin's career was from 1879 to 1892, plus 1875 thus leaving the majors without a 300 winner for 1871-1874 plus 1876-1878 in addition to 1945.

Of note: Bobby Mathews almost filled in those early holes (missing 1878 for some reason) as he ended with 297 wins.

For 1878 the highest career winner was Jim McCormick at 265. 1945 is Red Ruffing at 273. Ruffing would've made 300 without his injuries (I'm guessing here since he started 23 and 24 games in 41/42 then was out of MLB in 43/44 before starting 11 in 45).
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#125281) #
Gooden, Morris and Saberhagen were all frequently referred to as "future Hall of Famers" when they were active (the same is not true of Mussina) ... I think when the veteran's committee changes, albeit turtle-slowly, over the next 20 years, all three -- especially Morris -- will have their cases revisited.

Gooden will probably never get in because of the "Wasted Talent" perception factor, and of the three, Morris is the most likely, due to his overall career lead in wins and, face it, every time the guy went to a new team, they won the World Series. Jack's teams won every series they were in -- TO fans know something about that -- and he was undefeated (3-0) in seven World Series starts (four no-decisions) and 6-1 overall in the post-season.

I think he will end up in the Hall.
Braby21 - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#125283) #
Interesting point about Mussina. Also in his favour? He throws that funky knuckle-curve, which could easily be adapted to a "straight" knuckler. And if he can master that pitch, he could pitch until he's 45, 46, easily.

The Knuckecurve is really nothing like a normal knuckler. The fact that Mussina has a great Knuckle-curve has nothing to do with him being able to be a major league knuckle-baller.

Also, why didn't Wright just catch the ball w/ his glove? Would've been an easy play to just catch the ball.
Willy - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#125290) #
Who was the guy--chunky bopper--for, I think, the Giants a few years back who made the celebrated bare-hand catch while barreling like a mad rhino towards the stands in left-field? Kevin Something? That was some catch.
Craig B - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#125291) #
Kevin Mitchell.

Bobby Mathews, by the way, missed the 1878 season because he "jumped" to the International Association (the forerunner of the modern International League) for more money. The IA was probably nearly as good as the NL in 1878, and is not only the first "minor league" ever but probably the very best "minor league" - in comparison to its "major league" - of all time.
Craig B - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#125292) #
The Knuckecurve is really nothing like a normal knuckler.

I don't totally agree. The difference between the k-curve and the floater is pretty minor as pitches go - they use essentially the same grip, for one. (Mussina's k-curve is held in a slightly non-traditional grip, as he doesn't use his pointing finger at all). But instead of releasing the ball with minimal spin like you do with the floater (in fact, there is *some* spin in most knucklers - the best floaters make about a half turn between the mound and plate) he puts a very violent topspin on it, by pushing his fingers out against the seam.

It is a different pitch, and there's no reason why Mussina would develop a good floater. But if he can throw that curve, he can certainly throw a floater - he'd just have to develop it like anyone else.

Willy - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#125296) #
Yes, Kevin Mitchell. Thanks, Craig. He could hit some, too.
NDG - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#125298) #
Two crazy plays this afternoon from around baseball, make sure to check out the highlights.

First is the end of the A's/Angels game, where K-Rod, disgusted by a non-call, drops the return through from the catcher which allows Kendall to score from third with the winning run.

Second is a horrific collision between Beltran and Cameron of the Mets. Both laid out for a diving catch and had a head-on collision. Cameron had to be carted off the field as he was knocked out cold. I really hope he is okay, tough to get hurt just because you try so hard. Maybe it is a bad idea to have two centerfielders in the same outfield.
VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#125302) #
That was a serious accident. The force of the impact was just about the equivalent of them bunting heads while running square at each other.
smcs - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 08:08 PM EDT (#125303) #
I saw a replay of the winning run in the A's/Angels game and that was pretty bad if you are an Angels fan.
I have only seen the picture of the Beltran-Cameron collision, and it looks very serious. Beltran appeared to have injured his left shoulder and perhaps suffered a cut on his face in the collision. The extent of Cameron's injuries are unknown. But Cameron did start moving when the stretcher came.
Rob - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#125311) #
Watching the Yankees game here and I saw a batter reach on a strikeout. This inspired the following thought:

Let's say some horrible hitter is at the plate. He's down 0-2. The pitch comes in and it is very wild, like all the way to the backstop. Would it be smart for "Horrible Hitter" to swing at the pitch on purpose and run down to first base as fast as he can?

When I say a horrible hitter, I'm talking Bob Buhl circa 1961 here. Would it make sense to strike out on purpose if it would possibly get you on base?
VBF - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#125322) #
Yep, as a matter of fact, it happened once in my own league to someone who just couldn't hit. It was successful, but I don't know if they'd do it again.

Kinda destroys a players reputation.

DepecheJay - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#125324) #
Sadly, Cameron has suffered multiple fractures to his face and also a broken nose. I posted my thoughts on Cam in the replay thread (I guess it should have gone here, sorry) but this is really tough to swallow. Hopefully he has a quick full recovery.

The K-Rod play is just boneheadedness and it speaks for the type of person/player K-Rod is. He's a nutjob, ever watch him after he gives up a walk, hit, run, etc? The guy starts smacking himself in the head. Sure he's got great stuff, but the guy falls apart at the seams rather quickly.
westcoast dude - Thursday, August 11 2005 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#125328) #
I wouldn't be surprised if the Angels oriole out from here on in. Pitch around Vlad a couple times a game when the situation dictates; don't give him a chance to hit anything more than a solo shot; (as happened today), and they may be surprisingly vulnerable.
King Ryan - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 12:39 AM EDT (#125331) #
How do you pitch around Vlad Guerrero? Throw it a foot outside and he still hits it 400 feet.
westcoast dude - Friday, August 12 2005 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#125349) #
Pound the inside corners, pitch him backwards. How did Vlad walk three times (I just had a wicked Tony Orlando flashback) last night? Were there any intents? The man is a future HOFer.
This Day In Baseball: 11 August 2005 | 24 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.