Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - QOTD: Mama "Mia"! Nomah to Play 3B in LA

QOTD: Mama "Mia"! Nomah to Play 3B in LA

Apparently, Nomar Garciaparra, who not long ago was considered a mortal lock for Hall of Fame enshrinement, will move over to the hot corner for the L.A. Dodgers later this week. James Loney will take over at 1B.

Known, of course, primarily as a shortstop, Garciaparra has played nothing but 1B for the Dodgers since signing as a FA before the '06 season. So this move from Garvey Gardens to 3B and Cey-derville is the second such major shift of his career.

Which leads us to these Questions of the Day:

How will this move work out for the Dodgers and for Garciaparra?
Who is the greatest regular multi-position player in MLB history? Pete Rose? (2B/OF/3B/1B) Harmon Killebrew? (3B/OF/1B) Caveat: at least three positions must be in the player's portfolio and "OF" counts as just one position.
How are those Cooperstown chances looking for Nomah these days? Will this move hurt or help?

Posted by Mick Doherty on Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 12:34 PM EDT.

QOTD: Mama "Mia"! Nomah to Play 3B in LA | 27 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

ayjackson - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#170662) #

Nomar's best chance of the HOF was probably to retire after his age 29 season and hang his hat on 8 seasons of excellent offensive production from the SS position.

If he plays for a few more years, he'll reach 2000 hits, 1000 RBIs, 1000 runs, maybe 250 HRs and 100 SBs. I don't think that cuts it, but I'm not well researched on this topic.

I don't think the move back to a premium position helps define himself to the voters and will probably hurt his offensive production due to injury possibilities.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#170666) #

Who is the greatest mutli-positional player? I think that's a great question. (Of course, I asked it, so I would think so!) Requiring three positions eliminates the obvious choice, Ruth (OF/P). Yount is out on the same count (OF, SS). And we're looking for guys who played full seasons at various positions, not parts of the same season all over the place, super-utilitymen like Tony Phillips or anything.

Rose, if I am not mistaken, played in the All-Star Game at FIVE positions, if you count RF and LF separately (which here we don't) -- also 1B, 2B and 3B. Molitor played a lot at 1B, 2B and 3B, too I beleive. And Killebrew, hard to imagine him as a 3B, but that's where he started out. Who else? Dale Murphy, I guess (C, 1B, OF) -- I feel like I'm missing some obvious candidates.

dan gordon - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#170667) #

Garciaparra played more 3B than SS for the Cubs in 2005 and was OK. Fielding percentage was a little weak, but it was only 34 games (6 errors). I think he can handle the position.

ayjackson - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#170668) #

Roger Hornsby is a candidate. He featured at 3B in two of his early seasons and spent the rest of his career as either a SS or a 2Bman.

AWeb - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#170669) #

How will this move work out for the Dodgers and for Garciaparra?
Who is the greatest regular multi-position player in MLB history? Pete Rose? (2B/OF/3B/1B) Harmon Killebrew? (3B/OF/1B) Caveat: at least three positions must be in the player's portfolio and "OF" counts as just one position.
How are those Cooperstown chances looking for Nomah these days? Will this move hurt or help?

1. The Dodgers should have cut bait in the offseason after Nomar's second half last year. I may be wrong, but I think Nomar is done as an effective player. His SS defense was never a strong point, and now at 3B, I don't see him staying in the lineup for defense. Plus 3B is a lot more demanding than 1B, so injuries are even more of a concern

2. How many games to qualify as a regular? Hornsby had a few seasons where 3B was his primary position (192 games total), a few more at SS (300+ games). As possibly the greatest right handed hitter ever, he'd be my pick.

3. Very poor. Nomar isn't going to make the HoF based on 7 good/great years in Boston, and he seems incredibly unlikely to stick around a long time. Maybe he'll have a Molitor-type career and get healthy and stay good for a long time, but that's his only shot right now. I don't think position changes make much difference to his chances, since he wasn't great enough long enough to merit immediate induction, so he'll have to pile up counting numbers (where it usually doesn't matter what position you play while accumulating them).

ayjackson - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#170670) #

Honus Wagner played four positions. I'm a little foggy on the criteria. But I beleive Honus had four different postitions that he played more than any other in a given year.

Banya - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#170672) #

Nothing to do with Dodgers or Normar, but my brother and I were discussing this last night; how about Reed Johnson as our everyday shortstop next year. I'd say that he has the speed, the range, the arm strength, and we all know that he just loves diving on that turf. Other than the fact that he's never played short before, is this really that outside the realm of possibility. You then have an outfield of Lind, Wells, Rios, backed up by Stairs, and without having to move anyone. I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but is it really that stupid?

dan gordon - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#170673) #

Yes Wagner had quite a remarkable career. In has first year, he played more games in the OF than anywhere else, but also played 2B. The next year he played the most at 1B, and almost as much at 3B. In his 3rd year, he played the most at 3B, and almost as much in the OF. In his 4th season he played mainly in the OF, but also played 3B, 2B, 1B and P. In his 5th year, he played SS for the first time, and, in fact, played more games there than anyplace else, but also played a lot of OF and 2B. The next year, it was back to the OF, with a fair number of games at SS and 1B, plus a game at 2B, and another appearance on the mound. For the rest of his career, he mainly played SS, but also appeared at 2B, 3B 1B and the OF. Total games: SS-1,888, OF-372, 1B-248, 3B-209, 2B-57, P-2. Throw in a .327 career batting average, 3,418 hits, 643 doubles, 252 triples, 722 SB and I think he gets my vote, unless Hornsby qualifies. Rose and Killebrew are strong candidates.

Ernie Banks played some at 3B and OF, in addition to splitting his career between SS and 1B, but he never had a season where his greatest number of games was other than his 2 main positions. Interestingly, Mantle played a bit at 3B, SS and 2B for the Yankees in his early years, in addition to OF and 1B for the rest of his career.

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#170674) #

Harmon Killebrew, Pete Rose, Tommy Leach, Tony Phillips are multi-position stars.

Garciaparra has been following the career of Ernie Banks quite closely up until this move to third base. Banks was perhaps more impressive at his peak, while Nomah has probably had been better after moving off short. In the result, they're pretty close to date. Banks' OPS+ was 132; Nomah's is 130. Banks has 1000 more career PAs so far. Interestingly, the closest comp for each as of age 32 according to BBRef were Yankee catchers- Dickey for Nomar and Yogi for Banks.

When all is said and done, this move might help him, provided he can continue to hit. Nomar has a career slugging percentage of .540, and he is going to end up playing the great majority of his time at short and third. Like Jeff Kent, his case will be noticeably improved if the Dodgers win a World Series in the next year or two.

Nigel - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#170677) #

If you are prepared to take the defensive difficulty of positions played into account, my vote goes to Craig Biggio. A career 113 OPS+ and nearly 3000 hits, all while playing at C,2B and CF (primarily) is pretty tough to top. He wasn't a great defensive CF but he was, at least, above average defensively at both C and 2B.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#170678) #

Garciaparra has been following the career of Ernie Banks quite closely

Well, except for the 512 homer part of the equation. Hall voters are swayed by Big Numbers.

I can't imagine in 2001, having a conversation that wouldn't have started with the premise that OF COURSE he was headed to the Hall ... as a lifetime Red Sox hero, of course. (Banks' "Mr. Cub" persona helps him, too, when compared to NG.)

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#170679) #

Rose, Molitor and Biggio compared. Rose was probably a better second baseman than Biggio when he played there, and was certainly a better outfielder. Biggio was, of course, faster. We think of Rose as having no peak, but his 1969 season was truly great and actually a little better than Biggio's big years in the late 90s.

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#170680) #

You're right, Mick. Nomar does not have the big numbers of Banks or the persona of Jeter. That's why he needs the World Series heroics and some longevity to make his case.

Nigel - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#170681) #

Mike, I agree that Rose was the better overall offensive player, but there is something to be said for Biggio playing 90% of his games at 2B and C versus Rose spending about 2/3 rds of his career at LF and 1B. Positional value should mean something the context of this debate.

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#170682) #

There is. Biggio was overall a mediocre defender at second and behind the plate, in my view, and a poor one in the outfield. During the prime of Rose's career between ages 22-37, he played about 1/2 the time at second and third, and was somewhat better than Biggio as an infielder. When he played the outfield during the prime of his career, he was very good defensively. If Biggio has a defensive advantage over Rose, I would make it to be small.

Biggio's ability to get on base and steal bases effectively in his prime were really his key attributes. He was Tim Raines, in slightly fainter colours.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#170683) #

That's why he needs the World Series heroics and some longevity to make his case.

Interesting -- I was thinking kind of the opposite -- his playing all those years as the heart and soul of the Cursed Red Sox, then them winning a ring just months after he was traded -- that has a very Banks-esque Cublike feel to it. Could that help him in a way/

Magpie - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#170688) #

I'll vote for Rose.

I would think playing regularly means at least 100 games at that spot in a season. In which case, Molitor qualifies only at second base and third base. He started a season as the regular centre fielder but got hurt after 40 games, and he never played more than 48 games in a season at first base.

Julio Franco comes closer. He's still got more career games at short than anywhere else, and he was also a three-time All Star at second base. But the most he played at first base in a season was 95 games.

Gil McDougald managed 100 games seasons at 2b, 3b, and ss despite the fact that Stengel's usual modus operandi was to move him all around the infield from day to day.

Hubie Brooks!

JohnL - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#170690) #

My vote breaks the rules: Babe Ruth.

I argue extenuating circumstances. If time spent at (eg) 2B & SS, or 1B/3B, etc.,counts as two different positions, then surely someone who was so excellent at such different roles as pitching and hitting (who else even made an above average contribution to both roles?) as the Babe should get extra position credit for that.

So, unless Barry Bonds starts resting his outfield knees by pitching in the bullpen on occasion, I still say the Babe was the greatest multi-position player.

CeeBee - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#170691) #

Pete Rose, though being a power hitter Harmon Killebrews variety of positions may be more impressive.

HippyGilmore - Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#170692) #

Biggio for sure. Can't wait for his 3,000th hit, hopefully it'll be the first #3000 I actually watch live since I saw Eddie Murray's 3000th on cable when I was a kid and didn't understand the implications.

Dave Till - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#170702) #

I'm not sure he's the very best, but Robin Yount deserves a shout-out: he won one MVP as a shortstop and another as a center fielder.

Dave Till - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#170703) #

Oops: Yount's not eligible, as he's really only played two positions, not three. Carry on with what you were doing before you read this.

CaramonLS - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#170712) #

Might as well give a shout out to Torre (who should be in the Hall), playing C, 1B, 3B and OF (yes, 2 games).

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#170726) #

The hot rumor in Texas, according the Dallas Morning News' Evan Grant is a Ranger/Dodger deal with Loney and Chad Billingsley coming to Texas for Mark Teixeira and Aki Otsuka (or Eric Gagne). Seems unlikely, given:

1. Tex's injury
2. Loney is hitting like .480 or something stupid right now
3. Billingsley would be a LOT to give up
4. They wouldn't take Gagne back, would they? (Aki is better, anyway).

Just some food for thought as the trade winds blow.

timpinder - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#170736) #

Speaking of trade winds, our old friend Shea Hillenbrand has requested a trade. He feels that he "deserves" that "respect", if he's not going to get more playing time. Here we go again, Hillenbrand crying and whining about his playing time. Well, he most certainly deserves more playing time, since his OPS is a very impressive .600. I don't like to take pleasure in the misfortunes of others, but in this case I'll make an exception. Ha! Ha!

CaramonLS - Wednesday, June 27 2007 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#170747) #

The funny thing is he would rank dead last in OPS in every position he is capable of playing (1B, DH, 3B) if he qualified with enough ABs, with the exception of Nick Punto, beating him by 0.006 OPS - at least Punto can swipe a base.

So yes Shea, you are getting exactly the kind of "respect" you "deserve".

subculture - Thursday, June 28 2007 @ 12:28 AM EDT (#170759) #

yep, Shea needs someone to sit him down and explain that he's on the fast track to early retirement... 6 teams in a short career isn't a good sign, not even counting the incidents he's been involved with. The Jays team chemistry isn't hurting without him, and I'd be surprised if anybody offers much for him. Who'd be interested? Tampa? Even Kansas City wouldn't have room for him at 3b or 1b... and at 6.5M? Damn, Matt Stairs is like the 'anti-Shea' !

re: Reed at shortstop.... there's probably a reason that he doesn't play infield... nevermind that SS is the hardest position for one to learn, and very few ballplayers could play it at a ML level. As it is, he's an excellent LF, I'd like to keep it that way. Let Lind's OBP pass .300 before giving him the job, and don't assume Stairs and Thomas are likely to stay in good health. If either goes down, or realizes how old they actually are, there will be plenty of at-bats for Reed and Lind (like there were for Catalanotto).

QOTD: Mama "Mia"! Nomah to Play 3B in LA | 27 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.