Son of a ...

I almost wrote exactly the same thing about Gaston a few minutes ago then thought, "nah ... I'm too lazy to post that."

Great minds think alike (and, uh, so do ours ...)

Seriously, though, Clarence was a hell of a hitting coach back in the day.

I'm willing to bet that the Jays already have someone in place for the position, and the National Post speculates that the position will most likely be filled from outside the organization.

If it were Cito, what a PR coup that would be for the Jays.

I have a hard time watching the Jays make almost any hire without the name of Paul Molitor coming to my lips...

Two broken hands, a back surgery, a torn shoulder and Mickey Brantley takes the rap. When you get fired you shrug it off. I ever get a team Mickey, I come looking for you. Mickey Brantley, you're the man!

Mickey sounds off a bit about his firing...

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/261105

Also on the Fan morning show with J.P the Fan guys mentioned that Mickey sounded bitter about his firing. J.P said that most people who get fired are bitter. Then he mentioned that fact that Keith Law is always on the Fan....

But didn't Law quit?

I'm glad that it looks like Ernie Whitt will be replaced. This team needs a bench coach with a strong feel for in-game tactics to assist the manager.

As best I could tell, Whitt's duties consisted of phoning down to the bullpen and bringing the correct lineup card out to the umpires. It appears the latter was quite a handful for old Ernie. As for how many times he got the wrong number while doing the former, I don't know.

As best I could tell, Whitt's duties consisted of phoning down to the bullpen and bringing the correct lineup card out to the umpires. It appears the latter was quite a handful for old Ernie. As for how many times he got the wrong number while doing the former, I don't know.

A few weeks ago Mike Wilner apologized to Ernie for implying that it was Ernie who handed in the incorrect line-up cards. Apparently Ernie spoke to Wilner and told him he was not responsible for the mistake although he wouldn't say who was.

I have really been impressed with both Barfield and Mullinicks when they talk about hitting on the broadcasts.  Mullinicks seems very good at analysing and predicting pitch sequences, and Barfield seems to be very good at explaining hitting mechanics.  I think that of all the guys that have been associated with the Jays over the years, the one whose hitting knowledge impressed me the most was Larry Hisle.  He always seemed to have an extremely detailed description of exactly what a player was doing right or wrong, and was a very articulate and intelligent man.  I was astonished when he was fired as the hitting coach.

Too bad about Whitt, I've always liked him as a player, and for how he has done managing Canada's baseball teams in international tournaments.  Not too crazy about Butterfield being the bench coach.  He has seemed rather erratic as a 3B coach to me, often too aggressive, and sending players who get thrown out at home at a higher than acceptable rate.  I don't know if there are any stats about that....

To be clear, this isn't about whether Brantley should have been given the sack or not.

I'm shocked at how this has been handled. To my way of thinking this is another example of mickey mouse management.

When such serious managment decisions like firing a decent man go public something is wrong in the chain of command. How does this get leaked. The artical suggests "rumours" have it Whitt will also be gassed. Where do the leaks come from?

Clearly from The Star piece linked above Brantley had his supporters. Hill suggests he chafed at instruction last season, but rightly went to Brantley to get his game back on track. Who on the team might be chafing this season. Does this cause in house strife. Brantley supporters and opponents sneering at each other across the room.

If Ricciardi was trying to do Brantley a favour by giving him the heads up, through Gibbons, then he has done the team a diservice. If he's going to be gassed, just gas him, either when its decided or tell him at the end of the season.

Now we have a week of Gibbons and Brantley on the bench and the players having to keep their heads down or risk interpersonal damage between team mates.

I'd be interested in Grag Zaun's take on this, given his criticism for "guys being thrown under the bus"

When such serious managment decisions like firing a decent man go public something is wrong in the chain of command. How does this get leaked.

Brantley "leaked" it.

"Brantley leaked it"

Is that an assumption or do you know that for sure? I'm certainly not clear on how, why it came out. But regardless I deal with that possibility here.

If Ricciardi was trying to do Brantley a favour by giving him the heads up, through Gibbons, then he has done the team a diservice. If he's going to be gassed, just gas him, either when its decided or tell him at the end of the season.

The point I was trying to illustrate without writing an essay is: This is another example of poor decision making from the front office. Anyone with the slightest knowlege of constructive labour relations and team building will be shaking their heads. 

This is laughable.

Uncertainty is part of the job in this business.  It is always more than one aspect of a job which is scrutinized to determine if one will stay or go.  JP said this morning, that besides the hitting aspect, coaches are evaluated on how they prepare, how the players respond to their teachings and how the coach works with the rest of the coaching staff.

This determination was made and Gibbons gave Brantley the news....never an easy thing to do.  I am encouraged to think that someone will come in from the outside and refresh this offense. 

The bullpen coach is repsonsible for transferring the roster in the clubhouse to the official scorecard.  It is the Bench coaches responsibilty to check that it is copied accurately.

Dave Studeman gave us a sneak preview of his Best Fielders for the year over at Hardball Times today. 

He is leaning towards Hill and Rios at 2B and RF, respectively.  JMac remains in the mix at SS.

The point I was trying to illustrate without writing an essay is: This is another example of poor decision making from the front office.

We have no evidence that the firing of Brantley is a poor decision.  There is nothing wrong with informing him with a week to go in the season either - most employers are required to give a notice period.  We have no evidence that the Jays management leaked the decision to the media - the only evidence we have is an initial media report in the National Post with direct quotes from Brantley himself.

In addition, the fact that the manager would be responsible for informing one of his staff of the decision is hardly unique in labour relations.

I'll wait until I see evidence that they've done something wrong before I again criticize management on this one.

You keep missing the point and I apolgise for that. Please refer to the first sentence of my first post on the topic.

I'm referencing the process, and the front office yet again falling into questionable management decisions, not personel decisions.

That would be a separate post..

My point is we don't know how it was handled other than the Manager had to inform a member of his staff that his services would not be retained beyond this season.  There is nothing egregious about the way this was handled, as far as we know.

We certainly have no evidence that the Jays' management leaked it to the media.  In fact, the only evidence we have is that it was Brantley himself who leaked it to the media.  Brantley is the one complaining.  Brantley is the one, if anybody, who is handling it in a less than classy manner.

For their part, Jays management has acted properly and refused to get in a war of words with the obviously dissappointed employee.

Chuck,

I thought he was out of contract next week.  Would it not be courteous of the Jays to inform him of whether he should make other plans for the offseason?

Well, the real world and the baseball world are different. In the real world, if a contract of mine was about to end, I would want a reasonable head's up that it would not be renewed so that I could minimize the downtime. In baseball, what job could Brantley have in the wings that would require him the following Monday morning? His next "Monday morning" is really next spring. A week's lead time isn't going to help him on that front.

Baseball protocol, as I understand it, is that coaches learn their fates the day of game 162. All the cast-offs are then in the same boat and can start looking for new jobs. I'm not sure how many employers would be interested in hearing from Brantley a week before the end of the season when they, themselves, have not gone public yet with their firings.

And, I would imagine that the whole negative PR thing, which is what we are witnessing now, is the risk an organization runs in extending the courtesy of giving a coach the head's up that he will not be retained.

Baseball, like life, is not a meritocracy, despite how it would otherwise portray itself.
-- Noam Chomsky (okay, if he didn't believe that sports were a way the ruling class subjugated the masses, he might have said this)

We have very little idea of what went on here as the Jays aren't commenting.  I think there's been a rush to judge management.

I'm with those that can't understand why this didn't take place next week.

Well none of us understand that.  The point is that you and lefty and a few others pretend you do.  You think its because Jays management is incompetant and has botched it all.  The truth is that we don't have very much information and, thus I will not make any conclusive judgements based on a few innocent comments from the departing coach.

It's certainly well within the realm of possibility that Brantley pressed the issue quite forcefully and finally got the answer he had expected all along.  Nah, let's just bash the Jays management.  Stereotypical Toronto sports fan reaction.  I expect better around here.

I am happy to report that I am now an official member and this is my first post after reading this forum for the last year.  So here goes:

There is no suprise here.  I think all of us would have been shocked and calling for JP's head if Brantley came back next year.  There was never any emphasis on taking pitches or going the other way.  Look at Overbay, Lind, Wells, etc and try to tell me this was all injury related.  A fresh perspective to hitting would go a long way.  I am glad the players are upset because this may shake them up a bit.  According to various reports, there is a "Country Club Atmosphere" in the Jays clubhouse.  I have no idea if this is true or not, but people should know there are consquences for not performing. 

Given that both JP and Gibbons are not talking to the media about the matter, I think it is obvious that it was Brantley who decided to spill the beans to the media probably after forcing the issue.  I do hope they replace him with someone who is going to push these hitters into taking more pitches and staying on the ball longer by driving the ball the other way (especially Overbay and Wells). 

The coaches, like the players, head home as soon as the season is over.  For that reason it is common in baseball for the coaches and managers to be advised in the last week of the season what their status will be for the next season.  The Jays did this and kept it quiet.  If they had waited until Sunday, a possibility, then Brantley would probably have known what was coming anyway.

If you are up for a job or a promotion and they say we will let you know Tuesday, and you don't hear, you assume you didn't get it.  That's similar to what happened here.

I am not concenred with the Jays informing Brantley, I am more concerned with JP saying Keith Law was fired when Law insists he quit.  One of them is not telling the truth unless it's the "you can't fire me I quit" routine.