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Batter's Box No-Prize to the first reader to correctly explain the choice of headline ...
(Congrats to Geoff, via Chuck)

OF Kosuke Fukudome to the Cubs, it looks like ... Reliever Kazuo Fukumori to the Rangers ... Jake Peavy re-signs with the Pads, who also ink IF Tadahito Iguchi ... The Yankees are trying to send $40M boy Carl Pavano to Columbus ... Brewers DFA Kevin Mench? Really? ... Oh, and the Mitchell Report comes out tomorrow -- that should be fun ...

Whatchagot?

"Lost in a place called America " | 88 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:42 AM EST (#177516) #
Who wants to start a betting pool, with these two latest Japanese imports, on which DFW or Chicago newspaper has to be the first to fire a copywriter for writing a "clever" headline pun?
ayjackson - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:07 AM EST (#177520) #

Well it's no doubt a play on Lost in Translation - a Bill Murray movie about gahd knows what, set in Tokyo.  Where we go from there, I'll leave to our English major, Chuck.

If it was a simple play on that movie, the title likely would have read Lost in America.  'a place called America' has me stumpted.  Plus I'm on my first coffee and it's only 9am out here.

Maldoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:28 AM EST (#177521) #
If it has something to do with Tori Amos, I may not be able to read this site anymore.....
Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:29 AM EST (#177522) #
Already, this page is number 2 on the charts for pages with the phrase "Lost in a place called America".

Out of 1,100 current entries it took less than an hour for Mick to overtake them all. All but one.

I think you'll need to add some soundtrack to this page, Mick.

Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:37 AM EST (#177524) #
Wherefore art thou Tori Hunter Amos Otis?
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:55 AM EST (#177525) #

I think Geoff knew the answer, but Chuck definitely did, so he wins the No-Prize mostly because I really groove on anyone toying with names, and Torii Hunter Amos Otis is quite genius. Maldoff, we'll miss you.

Nobody actually explained why I used it, but the line is a lyric from the song "Wednesday" and all our headlines since Weekend Update a few days ago have referenced the day(s) of the week. Got a better Wednesday reference? Chime in ... I didn't want to go all Addams-family on everyone.

P.S. Today is Orlando Hudson's 30th birthday. I knew I was old, but c'mon! O-Dog will always be 24 in my mind ...

Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 12:04 PM EST (#177526) #
Oh no, give the prize to Geoff. I used his link to learn the answer.
Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 12:12 PM EST (#177527) #
Got a better Wednesday reference?

Today is hump day and GMs are currently deciding on what they're going to do with the junk in their trunk, whether they'll release that junk or offer it arbitration.
Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 12:45 PM EST (#177528) #
My trophy case is already full of No-Prizes and if I do win, I would like to give this to charity (or so I'll tell the CRA). For my money, Maldoff did enough to win.

Now for an obscure Wednesday reference...

"What could 3.4 billion quid buy you today?" .. which may be a good title for a Wednesday with a foreboding sense of super-sized free agent contracts to be signed.

What is the grand total of dollars committed to contracts this offseason and where might I find numbers on offseasons past? Last year was pretty bizarre, and I'm not sure if this year will surpass it, but it's not slowing down. It's enough to make Dennis Dove cry.


binnister - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 12:48 PM EST (#177529) #

Via MLBrumors:

Tejada to Astros for a *bunch* of players.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-tejada1212,0,378258.story

Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 12:49 PM EST (#177530) #
Prince Fielder would like to know what it sounds like when Dennis Dove cries.
Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:02 PM EST (#177531) #
Nothing about that makes sense. First, that's a horrible return for Tejada. I'd expect the O's would need at least Hunter Pence coming back instead of a bunch of guys destined to be non-All Stars for a perennial one.

Second, Miguel made it clear he wanted to be part of a winning team and not a rebuilding one, the article states. So he's going to the Astros.

Further, if anything should befall Miguel in his quest to be the best, Houston has less in its bare cupboard than before.
ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:02 PM EST (#177532) #
It's fascinating that Tejada goes the day after the Mitchell Report is released to teams. That must have been holding up his trade. I wonder if this means Tejada is not mentioned so the Astros wanted him or he is mentioned and the O's were anxious to dump him...
Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:07 PM EST (#177533) #
Albers, Patton, AND Scott? Houston just got fleeced.

I think that JP just added Ed Wade on his list next to Brian Sabean and Ned Colletti as 'GMs to trade with'.

Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:09 PM EST (#177534) #
Tell Prince to ask my man Jenkins and the great Hunter Pence.
Bones - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:17 PM EST (#177535) #
I would assume that since Adam Everett wasn't included in the trade that either:

A) Tejeda will be playing 3B

or

B) Everett is on the block.

If Tejeda is playing 3B, then Houston is going to have the worst up-the-middle production in baseball, and by a pretty wide margin.  Bourn in CF, Everett at SS, Matsui at 2B and Ausmus at C........YIKES!!!

Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:20 PM EST (#177536) #
I would assume Tejada is moving to third. Everett is one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball, while Tejada is bad and probably would've been moved to 3b a while ago if Baltimore wasn't locked into that deathpact with Melvin Mora.
Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:22 PM EST (#177537) #
This just in.. Craig Biggio turns 42 this Friday and Andy MacPhail is prepared to offer him a 5-year contract to lure him out of retirement. After 5 years, the Astros may have enough depth where they do not need the multi-talented Biggio anymore.
christaylor - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:22 PM EST (#177538) #
I'd doesn't make much sense but a recent BP podcast, Dierkes of mlbtraderumors.com mentions the author of the story (Zrebiec) as the guy who gets the best inside information from the O's front office. So it might not make sense not because it is made up, but because the O's front office tends not to make sense (and may want to spite Tejada or something).
Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:35 PM EST (#177539) #
while Tejada is bad and probably would've been moved to 3b a while ago if Baltimore wasn't locked into that deathpact with Melvin Mora.

Damned if I can find the link back, but I thought I saw a defensive metric, UZR perhaps, that had Tejada as slightly below average at shortstop in 2007, not nearly as bad as his current reputation.

I don't think Houston will jerk Tejada around between 3B and SS while going with an offense/defense platoon involving 3B Wigginton and SS Everett. I'm betting that Everett is the casualty and gets non-tendered.
Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:43 PM EST (#177540) #
Damned if I can find the link back, but I thought I saw a defensive metric, UZR perhaps, that had Tejada as slightly below average at shortstop in 2007, not nearly as bad as his current reputation.

I don't think Houston will jerk Tejada around between 3B and SS while going with an offense/defense platoon involving 3B Wigginton and SS Everett. I'm betting that Everett is the casualty and gets non-tendered.


Yeah, I should've been more clear. I don't mean Derek Jeter bad, simply should-be-a-3b bad. The rumour that I'm hearing right now is that they'll be keeping Tejada at SS and Wigginton at 3b. This kind of confuses me, because with a pitching rotation as bad as it's going to be next year, they don't have very much room to be sacrificing defence. Astros games next year will not be lacking in runs.

Also, Towles is expected to start at C, not Ausmus.
Bones - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 01:57 PM EST (#177541) #
Towles over Ausmus would be a huge upgrade.  HUGE.  But when they get to camp and see first hand just how "gritty" and "proven" Ausmus is, will they be able to resist putting him in the lineup on a daily basis?
Bones - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:00 PM EST (#177542) #
I forgot to mention Ausmus' near mythical ability to "work with pitchers."  I'm pretty sure that Oswalt owes all of his success to Ausmus hand his "handling."  Or so the legend goes....
Bones - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:02 PM EST (#177543) #
*that should say "and" not "hand" 

I really need to read these things more carefully before I post them.

bryanttelfer - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:31 PM EST (#177545) #

Tejada isn't a bad shortstop by any means, but his range has been declining very steadily, and he's not adjusting well on the field to it. In playing him at short, you want him back at least a couple of steps, which gives him a little more time to cut the ball off. He's been trying to play the line like he always has, and it's making his range issues look even worse. That means you need someone with above average range and speed at 3B to cover a deeper SS position. He still reacts well to the ball and his glove is solid, but with the less range and speed, he's going to be Jeter level very soon.

I don't understand why he'd resist taking over 3B if given the option. He'd likely be an above average defender off 3B, where reaction and bat read are far more important than overall range. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's still got a decent arm.

Jordan - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:37 PM EST (#177546) #

I'm betting that Everett is the casualty and gets non-tendered.

If this actually happens, I want JP on the line to Everett's agent faster than Oprah on a baked ham. If the Jays had Everett and Hill up the middle, they could put pylons at first and third and still have a solid defensive infield. I would absolutely love to see Adam Everett at SS for Toronto -- one of the very, very few players whose glove justifies an anemic bat. (Sorry, John McDonald, you're not in that class.)

Chuck - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:42 PM EST (#177547) #

I would absolutely love to see Adam Everett at SS for Toronto -- one of the very, very few players whose glove justifies an anemic bat.

Every defensive metric you run across is in full accordance with Jordan's claim. I'd say that Everett is actually quite an underrated player and probably would not have to be properly compensated, so disproportionately are each of offense and defense considered when pay rates are sussed out.

But I can't imagine that there'd be any possibility of Ricciardi moving on Everett, not when he likely believes he has a clone on the roster already.

John Northey - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:49 PM EST (#177548) #
All ratings I've seen state Everett is amazing on defense, best since the wizard of Oz (that's Ozzie Smith to the kids out there). However, his bat is around the McDonald level. 69 lifetime OPS+ with his last 4 years being, in order, 80-70-64-56. Ugh. He turns 31 this year so his bat is about as good as it'll ever be and his defense will be dropping soon. Still, an upgrade on lifetime OPS+ 58 John McDonald who had a peak of 75 over 166 AB's in '05 in both offense and defense. McDonald goes back to being a backup.

In a trade Everett would be sitting in arbitration with a likely salary in the $3-4 million range I suspect ($2.8 last year). Wonder if Houston could use Josh Towers? heh.
Mike Green - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 02:56 PM EST (#177549) #
Tejada was an above average defender at short in 2007, according to both STATS and BIS Zone Rating (the link will take you to a very useful Excel file, which if you sort by player's name, becomes much more accessible).  He has usually been average.



ayjackson - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 03:56 PM EST (#177550) #

A reporter at the Chicago Tribune has blogged that Rowand has signed with the Giants.

I think this puts an end to the Rios/Lincecum business.  If they had acquired a corner outfielder, I think they'd still be interested, but much of Alexis' value to the Giants must have been as a centrefielder.

Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 03:58 PM EST (#177551) #
Wonder if Houston could use Josh Towers? heh.

You're joking but the answer to this is probably yes. After Oswalt their rotation is I think Brandon Backe - Wandy Rodriguez - Woody Williams - Strike-O-Matic.
Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 04:21 PM EST (#177555) #
A reporter at the Chicago Tribune has blogged that Rowand has signed with the Giants.

ESPN is reporting the same thing. I'm not so sure I agree with your conclusion though. I just listened to the Sabean interview linked above, and while overall I got a feeling the trade was NOT going to happen, the one thing he said was getting just one player won't cut it. He needed 2 middle of the order guys. Getting Rowand without giving anyone up seems to make Rios even more attractive to them.

Listening to Sabean's tone, I'd bet pretty strongly, perhaps 9 or 10:1, that this deal does not go through.

ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 04:44 PM EST (#177559) #
A reporter at the Chicago Tribune has blogged that Rowand has signed with the Giants.

It's a shame the Giants didn't sign Pierre to that nasty deal last year, that would give them all three of the last two years' worst free agent signings. If I'm not mistaken, they came close to Pierre though.

And I'm with the good doctor, the Rios deal just became more likely in my mind.

ramone - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 04:49 PM EST (#177561) #
I'd have to disagree here, I think the signing of Rowand has killed the Rios deal.  The Giants outfield is getting pretty crowded, also Rios had more trade value as a center fielder.  Reports from San Fran Media are already coming out that this is the end of the Rios deal as well.
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 04:58 PM EST (#177562) #

I agree with AyJackson.  Signing Rowand, a CF, makes it much less likely that the Rios for Lincecum deal goes through, since Sabean said he would want Rios as their CF.  It may be more likely that the Hideki Matsui deal goes through now, though.

It's all fine by me.  I was worried that Lincecum was a surgery or two waiting to happen.  Now J.P. may have to switch to plan B, which is packaging Rios, Marcum and Purcey for Santana with Ted Rogers eating the 5-year, $120 million Santana is going to demand during the bargaining window.  Obviously I made that up.  But it's not out of the question.  Taking on that kind of contract would be at par with the money saved by the departure of Burnett and Glaus.

JayWay - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:01 PM EST (#177563) #
Sabean did acknowledge that one bat wouldn't be enough to fix what ails the Giants' hitting; however, he also seemed fairly content to wait it out another year in the hopes of attaining that second piece without dealing Lincecum. I hope that's not the case, but we'll just have to wait and see -- hopefully not much longer.
Jordan - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:01 PM EST (#177564) #

Here a link to the Rowand signing.

I'm in the camp that says a Rios deal is now less likely -- if the Giants had signed a pitcher to  "lessen the blow" of losing Lincecum, then I could see this as a step towards a Jays trade. But certainly, the Giants have more leverage now -- they don't have to acquire Rios for his bat or glove (though I'd certainly argue Alex is superior to Rowand, especially in terms of salary). The Giants might use this leverage to try and get that other arm from Toronto, though I doubt JP would move on that. But youneverknow.

Anders - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:20 PM EST (#177565) #
Yeah I think the Rios-Lincecum trade is dead.

"With this move, we will no longer listen to any offers for Cain and Lincecum," Sabean said. "We know the value of both individuals believe me, maybe more so now that we've gone through this exercise. They might be the hottest two names in baseball."


Source: ESPN

ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:21 PM EST (#177566) #
I spoke too soon calling this one of the three worst deals of the last two years. The Torii Hunter deal is far worse, considering he's older, has an extra year, and makes 6M/year more than Rowand. I have to say 5 years 12M/year is really not bad for Rowand - not bad at all. The Giants perhaps don't need him, but it's talent at a fairly reasonable price. The Tigers taught me that spending big on FAs while you're not a contender is not always a bad move: The Magglio Ordonez and Pudge Rodriguez deals did wonders for them in '06, of course. They appear to be favourites in '08 as well.
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:27 PM EST (#177568) #
JayWay - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:38 PM EST (#177569) #
Now the question is, does Ricciardi stand pat, or does he make good on his pitch-to-win declaration and try and bring in another arm through trade? I'm assuming the latter. Few people believed him when J.P towed the "we're happy with what we've got" line. So now that he's done a 180 on that position, adding that the key to defeating the beasts of the East is through pitching, how can he possibly go into 2008 without at least trying to improve the staff?
JayWay - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:43 PM EST (#177570) #
On this note, let's not forget what J.P said following the Winter Meetings: the team has a lot of different things brewing, more than even the press was media was aware of. J.P gave the imrpession that the foundation for any number of moves was laid in Memphis. Now that the Lincecum deal is dead, let's see how quickly something new develops.
Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 05:43 PM EST (#177571) #
Well, I sure was proved wrong fairly quickly. At least I had the odds skewed the right way. A bit disappointing, but Rios is a stud, happy to still have him. I think this will mostly be it for legit trade rumors out of Toronto. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong again, who knows.
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:03 PM EST (#177572) #

I think that trading Rios for pitching is unlikely right now.  Haren has the same amount of service time as Rios and the Athletics don't really need a CF.  It sounds like the Orioles won't trade Bedard to another AL East team.  A package centered around Rios and maybe Marcum for Johan Santana could probably trump the Hughes or Ellsbury/Lester packages being proposed by the Sox and Yanks, but even with Burnett and Glaus coming off the books, I doubt the Jays would spend the kind of money Santana would demand.  Afterall, they'll probably still need to aquire a 3B and SS next year.

I'm happy with the team as it is.  The rotation looks great and deep, the lineup is solid, and the bullpen is solid.  With some breaks, they can surpass the Yankees and take the wildcard.

vw_fan17 - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:04 PM EST (#177573) #
It's a shame the Giants didn't sign Pierre to that nasty deal last year, that would give them all three of the last two years' worst free agent signings. If I'm not mistaken, they came close to Pierre though.

ANA, just curious why you think this is such a bad signing. He's had ups and downs, but lifetime, his OPS is 805, vs. Vernon's 809. Now, I'm sure Vernon's OPS was maybe 820-830 after 2006, but, it's not like they paid him Vernon-money - he got 60/5 = $12/year. Vernon's is 126/7?

Yes, he has up and down years, but.. At almost half the price of Vernon, why is this such a bad deal? Is he that bad defensively?

VW
jeff mcl - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:07 PM EST (#177574) #
So, what's the dilly now?   A pessimist might say we don't have the cash to buy stud pitching on the FA market or the pieces to attain it via trade (from half-bent rival GMs who fall into it ass-backwards like Sabean).  Boohoo...

I think the Rios-Lincecum talk, pleasant as it was to have a hypothetical exercise of that magnitude, distracted us from a more pressing and immediate concern for 2008: finding a shortstop who can hit. 

smcs - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:22 PM EST (#177576) #
I think the realist would say there isn't the stud pitcher on the FA market to throw our (nonexistent) cash at.
Mylegacy - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:24 PM EST (#177577) #

Timpinder said: "I'm happy with the team as it is. The rotation looks great and deep, the lineup is solid, and the bullpen is solid.  With some breaks, they can surpass the Yankees and take the wildcard."

Generally, I agree. However, I'd be happier if Stairs could back up Glaus at third as well as OF, 1st and DH.

On the Santana front - the more I think about it the more I think the Yanks NEED him way more than the Sox. If I was Steinyounger I'd pull the trigger. If I was JP, I'd seriously consider offering Rios, Marcum and Purcey for him. We could afford him going on, if we REALLY wanted him. In the end, keeping Rios is also a very good move.

How many of those position players wounded last year: Johnson, Glaus, Wells, Overbay and Zaun have to come back to at least their career norms for the Jays to realistically have a shot at the wildcard?  I say at least four. 

patagonia - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:41 PM EST (#177579) #
Glaus  is not coming off the books in 2008 unless he is traded. He has a player option for 2009 at $11.25M.
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:51 PM EST (#177580) #
If Glaus is healthy in 2008 and hits the usual 35+ homeruns, he'd be wise to opt out and cash in, and he probably will.
scottt - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:52 PM EST (#177581) #
Nothing about that makes sense. First, that's a horrible return for Tejada. I'd expect the O's would need at least Hunter Pence coming back instead of a bunch of guys destined to be non-All Stars for a perennial one.

What the Astros gave is the equivalent of Lind, Litsch, Purcey, Brian Wolfe and Sergio Santos.

Troy Patton has the potential to be an ace. Costanzo could be the O's 3B as soon as 2009. Matt Albers is looking like a 5th starter for now, but he has decent stuff. For a team in a rebuiding year, it's not bad. They'll probably sign some FAs in a couple of years, when Bedard is gone and they have a good idea of what they have.

It's 2 years to late to get a top prospect for Tejada. I'm sure many teams have offered far less.
Mark - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:53 PM EST (#177582) #
If Burnett and Glaus don't opt out of their contracts next off-season it will have been a tough year for the Jays.
scottt - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 06:57 PM EST (#177583) #
If Glaus is healthy in 2008 and hits the usual 35+ homeruns, he'd be wise to opt out and cash in, and he probably will.

And if not, he might still be tradeable although returns would be pretty slim.
ANationalAcrobat - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:22 PM EST (#177585) #
ANA, just curious why you think this is such a bad signing.

I corrected myself a few posts down.

Wildrose - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:26 PM EST (#177587) #

ANA, just curious why you think this is such a bad signing. He's had ups and downs, but lifetime, his OPS is 805, vs. Vernon's 809

I'm curious how you get your numbers. Pierre's career OPS is actually .722 ( not that  OPS has any value as a statistic other than for a very cursory examination)
Wildrose - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:32 PM EST (#177589) #
Sorry poor wording, I thought you where talking about Pierre not Rowand.
patagonia - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:35 PM EST (#177590) #
And 2009 will be even tougher!
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:37 PM EST (#177591) #
With Rios' bat seemingly still in the fold and with internal 3B help years away, now would be the perfect time to trade Glaus for La Roche  It's been rumored that the Dodgers and Jays have discussed those names before.  If the Jays need to add pitching to the deal, so be it.  La Roche should offer more speed, better health and a better OBP.  He'd be perfectly suited to the Jays' lineup.  I keep hoping that this is one of the "plates" that Ricciardi is spinning.  (With the Rios-Lincecum rumor dead, I think I need something else to speculate about)
vw_fan17 - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 07:42 PM EST (#177592) #
ANA, just curious why you think this is such a bad signing.
I corrected myself a few posts down.

Yup, sorry.. Didn't read to the end the first time.

VW
Lefty - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 09:22 PM EST (#177595) #

Well Christmas didn't come early.

My sense is that Ricciardi will end up with nothing again this offseason.

He has pretty much been saying that he likes his team the way it is since last seasons trade deadline. Why would we think he actually feels any different today?

I think all the Lo Duca and Lincecum talk was all just a grand distraction in order to entertain the local media and die-hard fans. His offer to Lo Duca was lo-ball and most posters to this board figured the Lincecum was such a no brainer that I doubt the talks were very advanced. From Sabean's point of view his trial balloon went down like a Led Zeppelin. From Ricciardi's side the optics were great. Visions of sugarplums dancing in our heads.

I'm forcasting Ricciardi will not have his socks blown off this winter.

 

 

Jordan - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 09:49 PM EST (#177596) #

Adam Everett has been non-tendered. Go get 'im, JP!

I'm of course happy that Rios will not be dealt for Lincecum, and I trust he won't be dealt for pitching elsewhere. I expect that before spring training, we'll hear of a five-year pact for Rios that buys out his arbitration years and a couple of free agent seasons. It would be a wise investment by the franchise for both today and the long term.

timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 09:51 PM EST (#177597) #

According to Rotoworld, Dallas McPherson has been non-tendered by the Angels.  I wonder if the Jays would have any interest.  McPherson has power, he's a left-handed hitter and he could backup Glaus at 3B.  A bench of Stairs/Johnson, Scutaro, Thigpen and McPherson would be nice to have.

By the way, how does a guy with 360 major league at-bats, who first appeared with just 40 at-bats in 2004, become arbitration eligable in 2008?  I'm ignorant to how the whole service time thing works.  Also, I'm curious to know if Lind's major league clock is ticking.  I'd hate to see the Jays lose a year of Lind so that Johnson and Stairs can play.

Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 09:51 PM EST (#177598) #
His offer to Lo Duca was lo-ball

Remember that Lo Duca wanted to come to Toronto, JP didn't go after him. He had the 5M offer from the Nationals on the table the whole time, but didn't accept because he really wanted to play in Toronto.
JayWay - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 09:54 PM EST (#177599) #
In regards as to why we think J.P actually feels any different today, the answer is because he said so:

"We've been involved with a lot of discussions, some for two months, some for six weeks, some for two weeks," he said. "There comes a point when you say our team is our team.

"We haven't reached that point yet."

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=224859&hubname=
timpinder - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:02 PM EST (#177600) #
Everett should be a slight upgrade from McDonald.  He's probably a little better defensively and his career OPS is 61 points higher than McDonald's (.656 vs. .595).  Even though it would only be a modest improvement at the position, I'd like to see it happen.  The problem is the Jays just signed McDonald to that $3.8 million dollars.  Would the Jays spend the money for what's arguably just a slight improvement?
lexomatic - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:03 PM EST (#177601) #
"how does a guy with 360 major league at-bats, who first appeared with just 40 at-bats in 2004, become arbitration eligable in 2008? "

My guess would be DL - i think that counts towards service time.
Lefty - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:16 PM EST (#177602) #

The problem is the Jays just signed McDonald to that $3.8 million dollars.  Would the Jays spend the money for what's arguably just a slight improvement?

Plus they just traded for Scutaro. Running after Everett now is slightly harder to justify when you take those two deals together. I think the Jays could non-tender Scutaro, but they would be up against the clock.

I do like the idea of taking a flyer on McPherson. Though there might be significant competition for his services.

Ozzieball - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:29 PM EST (#177603) #
Adam Everett just got non-tendered. Even if the Jays don't sign him I find it hilarious that, for the Astros, the trade keeps getting worse and worse.
Jdog - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:30 PM EST (#177604) #
Shouldn't we be hearing if Towers is really going to be offered arbitration sometime soon?
melondough - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 10:35 PM EST (#177605) #

Shouldn't we be hearing if Towers is really going to be offered arbitration sometime soon?

Speaking of Towers, can someone please explain to me why some teams are waiting closer to the deadline than others.  By now you would have to think each org. has made up their mind.  I can't believe the reason is that they have a deal in the works or because they are waiting for a last minute offer...or should I?

Also, with the names that have been non-tendered so far today, is there anyone here who feels differently to tendering Towers than they did yesterday?  Do you now see a better option for that money.  If so, who?

John Northey - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:01 PM EST (#177606) #
Well, it is clear to me the Jays should quickly offer Everett $2 mil per year for 2 years (ala McDonald) and know that for $4 million a year they have probably the best defense in baseball in the infield with injury insurance.  Given the average player on the Jays will be around $4 mil a year next season that works out quite nicely.  Scutaro is the #2 backup then, mainly for third and second. 

So, a roster of...
LF-CF-RF-OF
Johnson-Wells-Rios-Stairs

1B-2B-3B-SS-UT-UT
Overbay-Hill-Glaus-Everett-McDonald-Scutaro

CA-backup
Zaun-Thigpen/Fasano/whoever

DH
Thomas

That is 13 with an open slot for Coats as a potential 14th should they feel safe with 11 pitchers.

Rotation
Halladay-AJ-McGowan-Marcum-Litsch/Towers/Chacin/etc.

Bullpen
BJ-Accardo-Janssen-Downs-Frasor-League-Randy Wells (Rule 5 pickup)

So lots of room to add Everett and his cost shouldn't be more than $2-4 million.  Since defense is #1 with JP lately I figure that it would make a lot of sense to sign him.
Geoff - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:10 PM EST (#177607) #
For all the players the O's are receiving, I acknowledge that Patton is the one player I have no ideas about his potential. Perhaps he is the player who will stand out as making this trade worthwhile for the O's. But Scott is not close to comparable to Lind, IMO.

Scott is barely comparable to Reed Johnson. Matt Albers? Is he comparable to Litsch? I'd liken him to Ty Taubenheim. I'll give you the comps of Sarfate and Costanzo to Wolfe and Santos. So is Patton further along than Purcey? Because if all it would take to get Tejada is Reed Johnson, Taubenheim, Wolfe, Santos and Purcey, I'd be outraged if I was an O's fan.

But if I was an O's fan, I wouldn't be watching the MLB news for any story other than Angelos is selling the team.

John Northey - Wednesday, December 12 2007 @ 11:20 PM EST (#177608) #
Y'know, I just suddenly though - a month ago I was pushing for A-Rod to take over short and now I'm pushing for Everett.  Geez did standards drop eh? :)

Scary thing is the Jays may be too cheap to go for even Everett this winter.  Must stick to the budget don't cha know.

andrewkw - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 12:18 AM EST (#177609) #
As much as I'd like to see Adam Everett take over the SS position, I can't see THREE roster spots being taken up by him, Mac and Scutaro.  Non tendering Scutaro would have been an idea but it's probably too late.  You could always release McDonald, but then thats the dumbest contract extension ever.  This just goes to show you how stupid it was to sign him to a multiyear deal.  If he was signed for just one year it would be a lot less painful to cut him lose.
Mike T - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 12:20 AM EST (#177610) #
http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=225075&hubname=

Bye Josh

ayjackson - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 12:41 AM EST (#177612) #
I think we should take a look at Matt Wise.  He has been a very effective reliever for Milwaukee and I believe is an "A" ranked player by Elias.  If signed for one year, he could provide some effective innings, provide us with draft picks in the 2009 draft, and possibly allow us to trade one of our current relievers for minor league depth at 3B and SS.
ANationalAcrobat - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 01:01 AM EST (#177613) #
I'm going to bed tonight hoping that whatever else happens, Carlos Delgado and Roy Halladay stay the hell off the Mitchell list. That's all I really care about...
Geoff - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 01:23 AM EST (#177614) #
I understand the expectation generated in/from the media is that the list will contain names of All-Stars and MVPs, but has there been any assurance that the names will be exclusively or even primarily active players?

I would be surprised if anything more than one quarter of the list of names are those of retired players. I guess I'm not clear on whether this report was intended to investigate steroids in baseball in general or if its focus is only towards steroid use after testing began.



Bones - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 02:00 AM EST (#177615) #
Geoff, I think that you are either overrating the Jays players you mentioned or underrating the players the the O's are receiving (probably a little of both).

While I wouldn't compare Scott to Lind (similar players, but Scott is 5 years older), he is a significantly more valuable commodity than Reed Johnson.  He's two years younger, a MUCH better hitter (career rates of 273/366/513 for Scott versus 281/342/410 for Reed), much cheaper than Reed (who is in line to be significantly overpaid through arbitration this year) and isn't coming of a season marred by back surgery.  Reed is a decent guy to have, but he's not someone that has any real trade value.  In fact, I would argue that he would be a good non-tender candidate if he weren't so beloved in Toronto.

As for Troy Patton being compared to David Purcey, that's just ridiculous.  Patton is a legitimate prospect, a lefthander with solid stuff (including a plus changeup) who is coming off his age 21 season spent between AA and AAA.  John Sickels over at minorleagueball.com had him ranked as the top prospect in the Houston system before the trade, giving him a B+ grade (a very good grade in his system).  His stock is down slightly because of some shoulder problems that ended his season last year, but he is a very good prospect.  As for Purcey, I don't know why he is still being treated as a prospect.  He is coming off his age 25 season, spent in AA, during which time he posted an ERA of 5.37.  I understand that he's big and throws hard, but his inability to develop any secondary pitches or find the strike zone on a regular basis have made him consistently ineffective against hitters in the high minors.  Sure, it could suddenly all "click" for him, but that seems less and less likely as the years roll on.  He's a lottery ticket at this point, not a prospect.

Albers and Taubenheim - I'm not a big fan of either, but Albers is a much better pitcher.  Both are right-handed starters, but Albers is a year younger, throws harder, has better secondary pitches and has had more success in the minors.  Albers is coming off his age 23 season, spent mostly in the majors, where he posted an ERA of 5.86 in 110 innings.  Taubenheim is coming off his age 24 season, spent mostly in AAA, where he posted an ERA of 6.37 in 89 innings.  Albers is a mildly interesting young pitcher.  Taubenheim is waiver bait.

Sarfate and Wolfe are both coming off of somewhat flukely spells in the majors, both likely pitching above their abilities.  I would rather have Sarfate, though, since he throws in the high 90's and strikes out a good number of hitters.  Wolfe does neither of those things, although he does have MUCH better control.  They are pretty close, but neither one is much of anything.

Costanzo and Santos is bang on.  Same age, same strengths (good raw power and athleticism), same weaknesses (ability to make contact and defense at 3rd base, among other things).  They are basically identical as prospects in my mind.

I actually think that the package that scottt offered as a Blue Jays equivalent was pretty close (Lind, Litsch, Purcey, Brian Wolfe and Sergio Santos), even if I don't agree with his assessments of the individual players (Troy Patton is more of a #3 than an ace and Costanzo is unlikely to be a regular 3B, IMO).  It's not a spectacular package of players, but there is a lot of talent in there, and even the back end guys (Sarfate and Costanzo) have a great deal of upside.  I think it was a fair return for a guy that is on the downslope, but still an effective player. 





SheldonL - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 02:18 AM EST (#177616) #
[http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071212&content_id=2324311&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp:]

Wow, I'm pretty excited!
I think McPherson is an intriguing signing but there are plenty more.
Akinori Otsuka - his track record speaks for itself; I think T.O might be a hard sell for a guy who's looking for a closer's job. He might be one of the better set-up men out there and signing him would enable us to throw Janssen's name around in trade proposals.
Adam Everett- for the reasons mentioned by other bauxites; he's a ridiculously good fielder. It would have to be a very low price.
MARK PRIOR! There'll be tons of teams looking for his services. The Cubs surprise me; they were willing to pay Kerry Wood $4 milllion last year and another $4 million this year but they cut Prior loose. His pure talent alone necessitates at least an attempt by J.P.
Matt Wise - seems interesting
Johnny Estrada - his 12 walks last year leave much to be desired...but it looks like JP's got his eye on him.
Kiki Calero - other than the fact that his is a nice name to say out loud, he has a very good resume once you look beyond last year.
Emil Brown- a pretty good hitter with some pop; batted .286 with a slug. % of .455 in his only 2 full seasons(look beyond last year)
Jason Lane - he's certainly got pop and I suspect that he's starting to draw more walks. In '06 he walked 49 times in 288 AB's. That combined with his power(49 HR's in his last 976 AB's) sorta stomachs his career .241 avg.
Morgan Ensberg - his quirky batting stance notwithstanding, he's probably the guy with the highest potential impact. Facng some uncertainty about Glaus' healthy, Ensberg could(big could) produce Glaus-like numbers. He's got a ton of power and walks a ton(101 walks in 388 AB's in '06....that's Bonds-like).

It would be practically impossible to acquire all these guys but JP better get the plates spinning on all of these guys...
Mudie - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 05:10 AM EST (#177617) #
seeyou - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 06:12 AM EST (#177619) #
Question for those more knowledgeable than me (or at least less lazy and are willing to it up): a team can still sign a player as a free agent even if they fail to offer him arbitration, correct?

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd like to see the Jays still make an effort to resign Towers.  I don't think he deserves the $2+ million they would have had to offer for arbitration, but pitching depth is always a good thing, and Towers, inconsistent and frustrating though he may be at times, is at least reliable as a decent innings-eater.  I mean, Towers is still at least a step up from the Ohka/Zambrano/Thomsons of the world.  I think something in the $750,000 - $1 million range would be reasonable.  But, then again, he might get better offers somewhere else, and he'd probably want to go somewhere where he'd have a better shot at a rotation spot.

moffydream - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 07:17 AM EST (#177620) #
McPherson, Prior, Estrada looks good to me. McPherson will be great lefty backup 3B/DH, Prior's younger than Clement, have more potential than Clement. I'd rather take Prior than Clement.. Estrada's stats are declined but I think he's best catching option we can go with.
SK in NJ - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 08:27 AM EST (#177622) #
If JP wants to gamble on a high profile starter without trading his best player (Rios) to get it, then you can't get any better than Mark Prior. In this market, even an injured Prior will get $5 million annually, but to me, it would be worth it assuming he still has arbitration years after this and/or if they can work out some option years in there somehow. I don't know the extent of Prior's injuries, but assuming a recovery is possible, then I'd be all over that.
SK in NJ - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 08:30 AM EST (#177623) #

According to Ken Rosenthal, the Blue Jays are "close to deal with shortstop Eckstein".

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7558686?MSNHPHMA

"The Blue Jays have been mostly quiet this off-season, waiting for the right player to become available at a reasonable price.

That player finally has emerged -- free-agent shortstop David Eckstein.

The Jays are on the verge of signing Eckstein, according to a major-league source. Terms of the contract were not immediately known.

Eckstein, a two-time World Series champion, likely will become the team's everyday shortstop, returning John McDonald to a backup role.

The Jays signed McDonald to a two-year, $3.8 million contract in September, but considered his deal affordable even if they used him as a reserve."

John Northey - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 11:03 AM EST (#177650) #
Any idea why Akinori Otsuka was released? He was hurt for the last 1/2 of last season so I suspect he has a serious injury (Tommy John?) which will keep him out for a chunk of this year too. He was very effective in the pen before the injury so if healthy he would get $3 mil a year in this market, if not more. If he'll be back for 1/2 a season or more I'd sign him in a second.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 11:12 AM EST (#177652) #

1. As you speculate, he's still hurt.
[Big gap]
2. The Rangers love C.J. Wilson as their closer
[Slightly smaller gap]
3. Word is the Rangers were kinds ticked that Otsuka encouraged Fukudome to sign with the Padres, though of course he did not do so.

I don't think it'd be a wise signing for anyone, actually.

R Billie - Thursday, December 13 2007 @ 12:14 PM EST (#177689) #

Prior's torn labrum makes it unlikely he's going to do much.  I think some team is going to try to rehab him and spend a lot of money to do it but ultimately, the days of Prior's fastball getting higher than 90 mph are likely at an end.

Would anyone have traded Prior after 2003?  They'd probably be considered nuts.  But that was the last truly good, healthy season he had.  That was four years ago.  Unfortunately, at this point, I don't think his chances are any better than Matt Clement to be a decent pitcher again.

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