Lisa Loeb => Moon Unit Zappa => Randy "the Big Unit" Johnson => Kevin Bacon

Okay, I'm not sure about that last link.

J.P's revisionist history is starting to make it's way around the web.

http://drunkjaysfans.blogspot.com/2008/02/ol-silver-tongue.html

http://www.meadowparty.com/blog/?p=166

Me neither, Chuck, but it's brilliant. Consider yourself No-Prized.

I admit, I'm probably one of the more relaxed people when it comes to JP's stretches of truth - my decisions on when/what to buy of Jays' merchandise/tickets takes his, and anyone else with the Jays, opinions with a grain of salt.  Either way, I don't want to open up this can of worms (hope I already haven't), but want to explain where I'm coming from with my next statement.

What concerns me, is when the media seem to lie / spread false truth, and are not held to bear for it.  JP's primary job is to build a baseball team - communication with the fans may/may not be a part of that, depending on your point of view.  However, a journalist's job is to present facts (few of the articles in Toronto, if any, are labeled as commentaries).  I've seen inaccurate comments reported by a variety of Toronto sports journalists (Griffin and Marty York being two that continuously provide examples), yet never hear anyone else point the finger at them.

The members of this site seem to bash Griffin a lot, but he gets a free pass from pretty much everywhere else.  Next time that the press starts to get on Ricciardi about his fibs, I'd like them to point the finger at York for his "Jays will go after Pettite and Clemens this offseason" comments or Griffin's saying that AJ disrespects the tv commentators by giving his teammates the shaving cream pie (I can think of many other examples for Griffin - misreporting the # of Jays affiliates to imply the organization under-values prospects, misreporting the maximum # of players allowed on the DL to demonstrate the Jays were going to be hampered and in problems with their injuries last year are two that come immediately to mind - but I couldn't find links for the other ones).

Really, what is more disconcerting - a GM not being truthful about negotiations or a newspaper reporter not being truthful about the news?

Maybe I'm the only one that finds the frustrations of a misinformed, malicious, sloppy journalist being upset about a lack of access to the GM of local ball team when he has had an axe to grind against the man since he took the job.

Griffin's caustic writing is the reason nobody in the Bluejays organization wants to talk to him. I wouldn't mind if the man actually bothered to complain and take the Jays to task for good reasons but he seems to disinformed to bother.

I couldn't imagine being a sports journalist and being so misinformed on what I was writing about.

To be fair -- and I should start by saying that living in Texas, I have no idea what the TO papers look like, physically -- whether he is clearly labeled as such or not, Griffin is a columnist, not a reporter, per se. He is offering opinion and conjecture, not "news." Should he be held accountable if he gets something factually wrong? Of course. But in no way should what he writes be construed as "reporting the news."

For those moderately new to Da Box, I encourage you to take some time and read through at least some parts of the 10-part series of interviews/features we did with Griffin and with Geoff Baker back in late '03. Honestly, especially the Griffin parts really opened my eyes to many things, and again, living here in Texas, all I have is some Web-based access to words on a screen to build my opinions ...

Chicago, don't even give Marty York the pleasure of telling him you've read his articles.  Since his departure from Sportsnet, his writing has all but become tabloidesqe articles with rumors completely out of left field.  Not even worth your time. 

You get what you pay for with the Metro (It's Free).

Mick,
First - I never realized you live in Texas.  Without that knowledge, I was impressed by your contributions regarding the Jays, with the knowledge, I'm even more impressed - thank you.

As far as Griffin, I'll admit I'm not taking the time to read the interviews. Primarily because I'm not really that interested in a 4+ year old story on someone I don't respect, but also, I don't think that judging someone's newspaper contributions should require further reading beyond their newspaper contributions.

Personally, I don't think that being a columnist gives Griffin the lee-way that he takes.  He is still writing in a newspaper and I think there is a greater degree of honesty / accuracy that should be applied in such an instance.  I still stand behind my original concern (now rephrased) - why is a GM held to a higher standard of accuracy/truthfulness than a columnist?

Caramon - I agree with you about York.  I dislike him from his days in the Globe (what was that, like 15 years ago?).  I actually stopped reading him purposely while he was a Globe (pre-internet days, at least for me).  The only time I'll ever read something of his now is if it's quoted in another site I visit and makes me say, "My Lord, I can't believe even Marty would say that - it can't be, I'll have to check."  Unfortunately, that's one of the downfalls of the internet - 15ish years ago, I was able to completely avoid the ramblings of Marty.

Sports journalists are basically the gym teachers of the sporting world. If you can'd do, teach. If you can't teach, teach gym. If you can't be a real journalist, be a sports journalist. Sports journalists are not called to task for the simple reason that their work is generally held in such low esteem. It's disposable filler for a disposable world.

Anyone looking to glean insight from a Richard Griffin or Marty York is like someone looking to get book recommendations from Oprah. Caveat emptor, baby.

 

Anyone looking to glean insight from a Richard Griffin or Marty York is like someone looking to get book recommendations from Oprah. Caveat emptor, baby.

Agreed - I really hope I didn't give the impression that's what I do.  I hardly read them actually (why I do feel like I'm saying "I only get them for the articles").  I only brought up York and Griffin in reference to the criticism that JP gets.

The members of this site seem to bash Griffin a lot

Actually, Griffin pretty much gets ignored around here these days.

Sports journalists are not called to task for the simple reason that their work is generally held in such low esteem. It's disposable filler for a disposable world.

Well, sure, an element of that is probably going on.  But we are talking about the Globe and the Star.  The Globe has a tiny sports department.  The Star is a pretty bad paper (I know that's just my opinion ... I guess that's a debate for another time).  Who is going to take these guys to task?  Who purports to know more about baseball at the Star than Richard Griffin (or at the Globe, in York's days)?  Who, even, in the entire Canadian journalistic community (besides a few notables)? We would be looking for either a baseball-savvy editor, or a baseball-educated public.  These things don't exist in Canada, for the most part.

Hockey reporting is another matter.  Covering the leafs may be "disposable filler for a disposable world", but if you are no good at it there is someone better than you waiting in line for the job.  Those guys are held accountable by an interested public and a sports editor who knows that any clout he has with the general editor depends on the success of his hockey section (um, as an advertising draw, I mean).

My point is obvious enough, although it is based on conjecture - I don't claim to actually know how a sports section of a major daily is run.  Sports journalists are held accountable for what they write, sometimes.  But the baseball writers in Canada get a free hand, just as the American hockey writers can come up with whatever garbage they want (see Ross McKeon's body of work for proof).

With Yahoo! Fantasy Baseball starting today I'd like to recommend the opening of a fantasy baseball thread. It could be for advice, sleepers, "rate my teams" or anything else fantasy related.

As the editor and writer of a small Canadian paper (as well as a former sports editor), and someone who has been writing about baseball for five years online, I'll jump into the discussion... Frankly the larger papers do not care all that much about baseball. The key with papers is to make money. They make money by selling papers - not in the sense, though, that you might think. The cost you shell out for the paper pretty much gets eaten up by printing and distribution. The real money comes from the cost of advertising. The more papers you sell, the more you can charge for ads. In Toronto, ads costs thousands of dollars each. A full-page ad with colour can cost more than some of you make in a year working part-time. In Canada, hockey sells. Not baseball. I've been told by Toronto newspaper advertising and marketing people that baseball is a VERY hard sell to advertisers, while hockey can sell itself.

One of the frustrating parts about writing for baseball in Toronto is that the jobs go to people with seniority... not necessarily those who know the most about the sport or are the biggest fans. In fact, in my opinion, certain papers go out of their way to see that their beat reporters are actually NOT big fans of the sport, perhaps in a misplaced effort to avoid 'homerism.' But I think Toronto baseball fans could actually use a beat writer or especially a columnist who had a little optimism and life-long love of the sport, perhaps a Jamie Campbell-esque approach to newspaper coverage.

Newspapers can also devote only a certain amount of room to covering a sport... But I would love to see one of the major papers create an online section for advanced coverage... interviews with minor leaguers, stats analysis, etc. with a full-time reporter dedicated to that role... but that is probably a pipe dream. The website and blog coverage of the Jays is great, but media credentials and press passes go a long way.

I find it interesting that no one mentioned the Toronto Sun's Jays coverage.

I think I've come to realize that the Toronto baseball writers really suck and aren't worth your time. Aside from Jeff Blair who is really good only for his scoops and not his actual opinion which isn't great, you can't really read baseball articles in Toronto without wondering how, how could editors publish this garbage!

Anyone looking to glean insight from a Richard Griffin or Marty York is like someone looking to get book recommendations from Oprah. Caveat emptor, baby.

Have you seen the list of Oprah's book recommendations? Pretty impressive actually. East of Eden, Cry The Beloved Country, The Sound and the Fury, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter to name a few.

or Griffin's saying that AJ disrespects the tv commentators by giving his teammates the shaving cream pie

To be fair this is his opinion.  Griffin, it should also be noted, isn't the only journalist who has mentioned Burnett's questionable characteristics.

Rotoworld is reporting that 21 year old Japanese phenom Yu Darvish could be posted next year by the Nippon Ham Fighters if he wants to come to the MLB. I first heard about Darvish a few months ago and he seems very intriguing. If he does get posted I think it will make Matsuzaka-mania look like the market for Sosa this offseason.

Here's Darvish's wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Darvish

Have you seen the list of Oprah's book recommendations? Pretty impressive actually. East of Eden, Cry The Beloved Country, The Sound and the Fury, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter to name a few.

The Secret.

The Secret.

Hey, no one's perfect. I think she should be commended for getting her audience to put down Danielle Steele and pick up Toni Morrison.

<blockquote>I find it interesting that no one mentioned the Toronto Sun's Jays coverage.<blockquote>

Have you eve heard Bob Elliot on 590?
He sounds like he'd rather be washing dishes.
I know his schtick is a Colomboesque feigned indifference, but I think he's taken it as far as anyone could.

The Secret?  That's nothing.

Remember the James Frey classic A Thousand Little Pieces ?

Make that A Million Little Pieces.  Yeesh.

CJF,

What concerns me, is when the media seem to lie / spread false truth, and are not held to bear for it.  JP's primary job is to build a baseball team - communication with the fans may/may not be a part of that, depending on your point of view. 

You're right; personally, I could care less if JP communicates well with fans or the media, or even is honest with them, so long as he can build a contender. That last bit is the only thing I question about him.