I concur with Blue Jay management on this one - that Banks has zero value.

How can the Jays reasonably expect to win a regular season big league game with a lineup like they fielded tonight?  Barajas at 1st, Inglett at 3rd, Non-Lind call-up at DH.

I know the game was in Orlando but Spring Training finished weeks ago.

Unacceptable from a team purporting to contend.

Banks is pretty much Josh Towers Lite, and Towers was pretty Lite to begin with most of the time. This is his third year in AAA, and it doesn't look like he's learned much from the first two times around.

Though I'll agree that I don't see why the Jays keep hanging on to Machi and Thorpe.

I'm disappointed to see Banks plucked off waivers.  I was in Auburn for one of his first starts as a pro back in 2003.  Anything that didn't bounce was called a strike that night by the home plate umpire, so both Banks and the opposing starter racked up a pile of strikeouts.  Banks lost 1-0.

Though I'll agree that I don't see why the Jays keep hanging on to Machi and Thorpe.

Machi and Thorpe can throw hard and have better bullpen potential than Banks.  Banks' career upside at this point is NL long-man/mop-up guy.  Seriously, I know we're all panicking here, but let's not go overboard.  This decision will have no more impact than what socks JP wears tomorrow.  (Unless they're his firing socks.)

The Padres are moving Banks to the bullpen according to Bud Black:

"He's a right-handed pitcher with a fastball, slider and split-finger [fastball]," said Black. "He has good control and a low walk rate and started his entire career with the Blue Jays, but we're going to try him in the bullpen in Portland."...

And he may get his chance sometime soon, given the Padres current bullpen situation.    I don't see this as much of a loss though... he's a high draft pick with a low ceiling.  

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080423&content_id=2575080&vkey=news_sd&fext=.jsp&c_id=sd

I agree with both sides, Banks was in tough to be successful in the AL East unless he developed another pitch.  At the same time I would rate him above Machi, Santos and Chacin.

My question is, if the Jays have no time for young guys like Banks and Lind, and they have no time for veterans like Thomas...

... what's that leave?

Well, with no where to put prospects likes Lind (good prospect) or Banks (poor prospect) and no where for old vets like Thomas the Jays obviously have decided to go for the Gord Ash method.  Put lots of mediocre guys who are in their 'prime' and unlikely to do much of anything on the field (Scurtaro, Inglett, Eckstein, McDonald) and hope no one notices.

It is extremely frustrating to be a Jay fan at the moment.  We see tons of talent but it is being misused. 

• Lind should be in the majors now. 
  
• Diaz should be catching, not DH'ing, either in the majors or AAA.
• Inglett and Scutaro should be splitting third base until Rolen comes off the DL, not spending time in the outfield.
  
• Litsch should be in AAA until he has control of all his pitches

Easy things to fix, but one wonders what is going on behind the scenes.  Please, please, please don't let this become Ash the second with young kids left to rot in the minors while mediocre or poor players are manning the majors.

that Banks has zero value

I don't mean to imply that Banks is a great prospect.  I just think he could be useful at some point and many others on the 40 man roster won't be.

  Please, please, please don't let this become Ash the second with young kids left to rot in the minors while mediocre or poor players are manning the majors.

Don't worry - there aren't many worthwhile kids in the minors right now and, and tons of holes to fill in at the major league level.

I don't mean to imply that Banks is a great prospect.  I just think he could be useful at some point and many others on the 40 man roster won't be.

I understand Pistol.  I was just trying to be clear that he would have been my choice to expose too.  I thought he would have made it through.  I think Santos would be a good shout to expose too, but I would think that someone would take a flyer on Santos ahead of Banks.  Apparently, the SD scouts also last saw Banks in a 1-0 defeat in Auburn with Orignal Ryan.

[and Pistol, I'm getting draft fever]

Does anyone think the Jays need another lefthanded bat?

The Rays just designated Dan Johnson for assignment less than a week after claiming him (the acquisition of Gabe Gross made Johnson expendable, apparently).

Johnson would be nice insurance for Overbay (he's a better defender at first base too).

I was always curious why they never tried Banks out of the pen. C'est la vie. Hopefully this doesn't come back and hurt us too much.

Seriously, I know we're all panicking here, but let's not go overboard.

As Pistol said, I don't think anyone here is claiming Banks will ever be more than a fifth starter or middle reliever and that's no guarantee. Still, Banks ranked number 14 on the Box's Top 30 prospect list. Thorpe and Machi were nowhere to be seen. Not that the Box's list is the be-all and end-all of prospect discussions, but I'd says the odds are pretty good that Banks will have a better major league career, perhaps simply by virtue of having a major league career, than at least one of Thorpe and Machi.

I think some of us are also questioning what the thinking is behind this decision. What is it that JP sees in Machi and Thorpe (and Chacin and so on) that makes them worth keeping on the 40-man over Banks? For that matter, what made them more valuable than Cody Haerther and Lee Gronkiewicz, both of whom were lost off the 40-man in the offseason?

Put lots of mediocre guys who are in their 'prime' and unlikely to do much of anything on the field (Scurtaro, Inglett, Eckstein, McDonald) and hope no one notices.

The funny thing is that two of those guys mentioned were given two year contracts becuase they are just that valuable that if they were only given a one year contract they would surely be highly sought after free agents. I dont get JP giving Scutaro and Mcdonald 2 year contacts, It puts you in a less flexible position. Not a huge deal, but i still dont get why?

I want to see the Jays turn it around and emerge as a legitimate contender.

On the other hand, I would rather see the team completely implode than watch them eke out another 83-win season. It might be the only way to wake up ownership and force them to go in a different direction. I'm actually sympathetic to JP (I think he made a valiant attempt to put together a serious contender--and they may still contend, despite costly injuries to Rolen and Janssen and a DH meltdown). But I agree with Blair that "it's time." This year has got to be JP's last chance, and so far things are not going well.

As Pistol said, I don't think anyone here is claiming Banks will ever be more than a fifth starter or middle reliever and that's no guarantee. Still, Banks ranked number 14 on the Box's Top 30 prospect list.

Well I did my own top 30 about a week before the Box and Banks was nowhere to be seen

 I'd says the odds are pretty good that Banks will have a better major league career, perhaps simply by virtue of having a major league career, than at least one of Thorpe and Machi.

I'd say the odds that at least one of Thorpe and Machi will have a better major league career than Banks.  The question is which one, that's why you keep both if you can - because you know that Banks' major league career may already be over.  (He was never going to see OUR roster again.)

I think some of us are also questioning what the thinking is behind this decision. What is it that JP sees in Machi and Thorpe (and Chacin and so on) that makes them worth keeping on the 40-man over Banks? For that matter, what made them more valuable than Cody Haerther and Lee Gronkiewicz, both of whom were lost off the 40-man in the offseason?

Well Chacin is a lefty recovering from Labrum surgery, so there's already more hope there than is with Banks.  And as I said earlier, Machi and Thorpe are good bullpen prospects who can throw hard.  Banks has two pitches: ball and meatball.

Look you can say that you would rather they expose someone else - that's fine, and you may be right.  But all I'm saying is here's one guy who doesn't think this is a big deal and would have probably exposed the same guy if I were JP.  Remember there's two questions to ask when trying to slip somebody off the 40-man roster:  can he make our club one day?  and would another team take a chance on him?  Anybody who's seen Banks pitch in the last couple of years couldn't have been impressed.  Whereas Machi, Thorpe and Santos have all shown some promise at certain times over the past season or two.

Josh Banks was a relief-to-start conversion.  He had been a very successful closer in college, and according to reports that I read a couple of years ago, had 3-4 extra clicks on the fastball when he was closing.  I can see him being quite successful in Petco, and would certainly rather have him on the 40 man than Jean Machi.

That said, it is really hard to tell among pitching prospects, and I would not be too critical of Ricciardi for this move.  The current pitching situation is actually pretty good, despite the injury to Janssen and the unexpectedly poor performances of particularly Accardo and also League.  A rotation of Halladay, Burnett, McGowan, Marcum and Litsch is good.  A bullpen of Ryan, Frasor, Downs, Camp, Tallet, and Accardo would be fine.  Carlson, Wolfe, Purcey and Davis Romero look like they can offer help this year.  It is really a matter of sifting and making adjustments, and putting out a good defence out there the great majority of the time. 

Banks actually started 10 games and relieved in 17 games at Florida International.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Josh-Banks.shtml

Not sure why it'd be different, but the stats through Boyd's world has Banks relieving primarily as a freshman and sophomore and primarily starting as a junior (15 of 17).

I've always liked Dan Johnson, even took him a fantasy league which allowed rookie drafts.
Thought he was going to be a saviour for a slightly old team with not much backup. Never happened.
Two teams have now given up on him, does he get a third strike?
Given a distinct lack of high-level talent on the 40-man roster, I think I'd give it a go too.

I've always liked Dan Johnson, even took him a fantasy league which allowed rookie drafts.
Thought he was going to be a saviour for a slightly old team with not much backup. Never happened.
Two teams have now given up on him, does he get a third strike?
Given a distinct lack of high-level talent on the 40-man roster, I think I'd give it a go too.

Speaking of acquisitions, wouldn't a team that just cut its DH have a need for a 30-year old who in 450 career games has put up the following numbers:

• RHP: .260/.333/.463 (.796)
• LHP: .296/.364/.500 (.864)

I'd think that Josh Phelps could adequately replace Frank Thomas if our organization liked the initial make-up of our roster.  Where is he playing now? Baseball-reference has the last transaction involving him being the Pirates picking him up in the middle of last season, but he has no at-bats this year.

Phelps is with the Memphis Redbirds hitting a mighty .216/.244/.324 in 17 games. They should sign him, make him the DH and put Diaz at third. There aren't enough catchers in the lineup.