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It was a Canada Day performance in a similar vein to the big league club in the minosr, as the top 5 affiliates combined to go 1-4, scoring 6 runs between them. The DSL and GCL Jays combined for more than double that and both won. Go figure.

Reno 9 at Las Vegas 2

JP Arencibia and Aaron Matthews both had two hits, including a double and a two run home run, respectively, but those were about the only bright spots for the 51s as they got smacked around by Reno. Lance Broadway gave up 8 runs on 18 baserunners (12 hits, 6 walks) in 5.1 innings. He did strike out six, but when you face 32 battes that doesn't seem so impressive. Merkin Valdez gave up a hit and whiffed 3 in 2 scoreless innings of relief, and Chris Lubanski and Adam Calderone also doubled. Lubanski and JPA were named to the PCL All Star Team, along with Brett Wallace, who had the day off; Arencibia will start in the matchup against the International League All Stars.

Also, the 51s released Luis Figueroa and promotoed Manny Mayorson, who started and went 1-4 with a stolen base while playing second.

New Britain 1 at New Hampshire 0

A two-out run scoring single in the second would be all the scoring needed in this one, as New Britain took a lead they would not relinquish. Making his 4th straight start, swingman BJ LaMura went 5, allowing the one run on  3 hits and 4 walks with 5 strikeouts. Adrian Martin pitched 3 scoreless innings and Alan Farina allowed a hit but struck everyone else out in the 9th. It was all moot though as the Fisher Cats could muster only 4 hits, all singles, and 5 walks. Adam Loewen had 2 of the hits, and Brian Jeroloman had a hit and a walk.

Brevard County 4 at Dunedin 1

Brevard County (The BC) scored twice in the first and in the eighth, with the later two runs being purely for show, as Dunedin could reach base only 7 times (4 singles, 2 walks and a solo home run). Chuck Huggins put in a decent effort for the D-Jays, going 7.2 and allowing 4 runs, 2 earned. He allowed 7 hits and walked 1, with three strikeouts, keeping his ERA under 3. Brad McElroy had the dinger and a single, and no one else reached base more than once. Thats how things do against the BC.

Lansing 2 at South Bend 3

Lansing took a 2-1 lead in the sixth on a Kevin Nolan sac fly, but the Lugnuts gave it back in the 6th, when Ryan Tepera fell apart. He struck out the first two batters he faced, but a wild pitch resulted in a runner on first. A throwing error on a pickoff, another wild pitch, two walks, a single and a sac fly followed to give South Bend a lead they would not relinquish. Ryan Goins and Nolan both had 2 hits, but no one else reached base more than once. Tepera's final line was 6 IP, 3 H 3 ER 3 BB 7 K.

Batavia 0 at Auburn 1

Finally! Yeico Aponte doubled in a run in the 7th and it would be all Auburn needed thanks to a strong start by Sam Strickland, who has now gone 17 innings without allowing an (earned) run to begin 2010. Strickland went went 6 and allowed 3 hits, walking two and striking out 5. Jesse Hernandez picked him up and struck out five of the eight batters he faced to pick up the win, allowing a walk and a hit, and Drew Permison pitched a perfect 9th for the save, whiffing 2. Marcus Knecht picked up 2 hits including a double and Andy Fermin had 2 singles in his first game for the Doubledays.

GCL Pirates 2 at GCL Blue Jays 5

Christopher Hawkins had two hits, as did shortstop Gari Pena, who's two run blast in the second put the Jays ahead for good. Jake Marisnick had a double and walk , his slash line is now .342/.435/.605 in 45 PA; and he's walked 7 times against only 5 strikeouts. A rehabbing Snidro led off and singled and stole a base to boot. Catcher Pierce Rankin also doubled and walked. Misual Diaz got the start and allowed only 2 hits through 4 innings, walking nary a man while whiffing 6. Oh yeah, he got 5 groundouts of his 6 outs in play to boot.

DSL Blue Jays 8 at DSL Yankees 4

3 Stars!

Jesse Hernandez: 2 IP 1 H 0 R 1 BB 5 K

Sam Strickland: 6 IP 3 H 0 R 2 BB 5 K

Misual Diaz 4 IP 2 H 0 R 0 BB 6 K, 5-1 GB/FB

Canada Day Fail-a-bration | 61 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Jdog - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#217825) #
Whats the scouting report on this Snidro in the GCL :)

Good to see Hawkins getting off to a good start, we need some success out of our HS position player picks
Kasi - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#217826) #
Lots of moves today.

Scrabble coming up (presumably to take Marcum's place).

Hoff going back down, EE coming back up.

Kasi - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#217827) #
Forgot to add that to make room for EE Reed was outrighted. He refused and was then released.
Sano - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#217828) #
Has Marcum lost his spot in the rotation for sure?
Gerry - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#217829) #

Randy Boone comes off the DL to start for New Hampshire tonight.  Ronald Uviedo has gone on the DL.

Rey Gonzalez has been sent back down to AA, Bubbie Buzachero has been promoted to AAA. 

uglyone - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#217830) #

nice to see EE back up.

at least AA isn't overly stubborn, and can admit a mistake.

bball12 - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#217831) #
EE has the right initials. LOL

Get ready for a solid .215 BA from EE - and multiple EE games.

He is truly - horrible.



scottt - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#217832) #
EE has great numbers against Pettitte. Lind/Hill/Overbay, not so much. It would actually be a good time to start Johnny Mac and keep a lefty on the bench.
TamRa - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#217833) #
Dunno about that...my guess is that he'll have a hot bat for a little while - through the break...before reverting back to a more bothersome line.

Kinda like what happened when he came off the DL.

My question concerns the AAA rotation. With Gonzalez bumping down and Zep coming up....can we infer that Mills and Ray might be ready to come off the DL? Or maybe Richmond? Short of that, it's hard to see how they fill those turns without a promotion.

Might spot in Zach Jackson a couple of times but that would be a pretty short term solution.


Gerry - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#217835) #

can we infer that Mills and Ray might be ready to come off the DL?

If you read my interview with Dane Johnson he said both would be ready to come off the DL in the first week of July.

TamRa - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#217836) #
I was thinking I'd seen that somewhere but with Boone being activated i thought maybe I'd mixed it up
Sneeps - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#217838) #

JPA tonight = 2 for 3, double, homer, 3 rbi's, through the 4th.

OPS @ .995.

Cynicalguy - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#217839) #

Arencibia has gone mad with power!

China fan - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 05:11 AM EDT (#217841) #
....at least AA isn't overly stubborn, and can admit a mistake....

There's absolutely nothing in EE's promotion to indicate that AA is "admitting a mistake."  He's not admitting a mistake at all.  He's making a desperate effort to get some production from 3B, which has been a sinkhole for the Jays ever since Rolen was traded.  He tried Hoffpauir and that didn't work, and now he's hoping that EE will gain some motivation from his stint in the minors -- and from his failure to attract any interest on the waiver wire.  Sometimes a trip to the minor-league buses can be a sobering reality check for a high-paid major-leaguer, and it can be enough to turn them around.  And the realization that nobody else bothered to put in a waiver claim -- that too can be a healthy splash of cold water on a major-league ego.   Who can blame AA for giving it a try?  Nobody doubts that EE has a ton of talent -- anyone who had such a strong major-league season at the age of 23 has obviously got a lot of talent -- but somehow he hasn't managed to put it together for the past two seasons, and AA -- to his credit -- is trying everything he can to motivate the guy.
Sneeps - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 05:39 AM EDT (#217842) #

I'm suprised at the lack of crow eating around here regarding JPA.  There's been a lot of posters here that completely wrote him off as a non-prospect.  You'd think being a Jays fan these guys would be happy about their incorrectness.

Sneeps - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 06:17 AM EDT (#217843) #

After a slump, Eric Thames is back to smoking the ball again (over his last 10 games)

42 ab's, .429, 4 doubles, triple, homer, 7 rbi's, 4 bb, 7 k, 1.132 ops

Kelekin - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 07:03 AM EDT (#217844) #
@Sneeps:

Arencibia was "written off" by some because of the fact that even including this year's numbers, his career OBP is .315.  Even Miguel Olivo was better in the minor leagues, and that guy can't walk even if he tries.  There is absolutely no denying his power, but if power was the only intimating factor, Chip Cannon would be our 1B.

He has power, he's improved his defense, and unfortunately he's never going to hit for average or OBP.  But if he can be a .280 guy as most have said before with 25-30 HRs, then why not.  The point is, when Arencibia was doing nothing to say he was the top prospect that got drafted, people still thought of him highly.  So finally everyone comes down on him this past off-season, and he heats up and is a prospect again. 

Anything that gets Jeroloman to AAA makes me happy.

bbacon24 - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 07:55 AM EDT (#217845) #
1st time poster, long-time reader.  I live near Manchester and see the F-Cats as much as possible.  Over the years I have gotten to know the team's beat-writer, Kevin Gray.  I spoke with him last night about Adeiny Hechavvaria.  Apparently, the only reason A-Hech was promoted to AA, despite his poor #'s in Hi-A, was because of the large Latin contingent on the team and to allow Luis Rivera to begin mentoring him.  A-Hech will not be rushed to Toronto and will most likely be in AA for the remainder of this year and next.  He may appear in a Toroto game to fullfill contract obligations but will end up going back down to the minors.
Cynicalguy - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 09:19 AM EDT (#217846) #
Most people wrote off JPA because of his .223 avg in Vegas last year and didn't display that much power (21 HR last year).  If he had 19HR near the half way point of last year, people wouldn't have written him off so quick.  Fact is, JPA only had 2 full pro seasons, 1 very good with a high avg and very good power, and one bad one with bad avg and OK power.  I think people were too quick to write him off. 
85bluejay - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#217849) #

Without question JPA has improved his prospect status - but let's not get carried away - What he,Wallace,Lubanski

etc. are doing at Vegas has to be taken with a large grain of salt - EE who was sucking went down there and killed,

heck, Mike McCoy is hitting home runs at the same rate as JPA. I'm happy JPA is having a good year but until those

guys produce in the show, I'll withhold any hyperbola. Also, I've read differing reports on his defense this year &

would appreciate a first hand account  if anyone has seen him this year.

85bluejay - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#217850) #

With regards to EE - have to agree with China Fans' analysis  & I applaud AA for his actions, I don't think he

"make a mistake at all"

TamRa - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#217851) #
I don't recall anyone else saying what I was saying in the spring of 2009 - JPA was rushed and should have opened the year at AA.

That was the main factor, it seemed to me, for his poor year last year - then when we found out about the physical difficulties it was that much easier to give him a mulligan.

I remain excited by his potential.


TamRa - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#217852) #
Apparently, the only reason A-Hech was promoted to AA, despite his poor #'s in Hi-A, was because of the large Latin contingent on the team and to allow Luis Rivera to begin mentoring him.

From the Jays' site:

NEW YORK -- The promotion of Adeiny Hechavarria to Double-A New Hampshire earlier this week was not about numbers. It was a move based on development and comfort both for the organization and the young Cuban shortstop.

"We felt that was the best environment for his development," Blue Jays manager Alex Anthopoulos said on Friday at Yankee Stadium. "But we weren't going to do it right at the outset. We just wanted to get him a little bit acclimated to professional baseball.

After signing a four-year, $10 million deal with the Blue Jays in April, Hechavarria was sent to Toronto's Minor League complex in Florida, and he began his professional career with Class A Dunedin. Off the field, Hechavarria was able to work on his English, remain near some family and grow comfortable with his new surroundings.

Hechavarria's statistics with Dunedin were not pretty -- he hit just .193 over 41 games -- but Anthopoulos said the shortstop's development goes beyond the stat sheet. Now, Hechavarria will be working under Double-A manager Luis Rivera, who speaks Spanish and played parts of 11 seasons in the Majors as an infielder.

Promoting Hechavarria around this time during the season was the plan all along.

"I know the numbers in the Florida State League didn't look very strong," Anthopoulos said. "This was something that we had talked about, even when we signed him. We wanted to leave him in Florida for a little bit just to get acclimated."
uglyone - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#217853) #
There's absolutely nothing in EE's promotion to indicate that AA is "admitting a mistake."  He's not admitting a mistake at all.  He's making a desperate effort to get some production from 3B, which has been a sinkhole for the Jays ever since Rolen was traded. 

I couldn't imagine a clearer example of a GM clearly admitting a mistake quickly, and without stubborness.

He made a switch, and quickly realized that EE and his .765ops was much, much better than the alternatives.

Even if it makes AA look a little bit silly for ever making the move, he doesn't seem to care about that, and admitted the mistake anyways.

Good on him.

Some people have no problem admitting their mistakes, and that's a sign of strength.  You don't seem to be one of those people, though.
uglyone - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#217854) #
As for JPA, I don't think there's any doubt he's re-established himself as a legit prospect - and one with legit potential to be a quality starting catcher based on average defense + elite power alone.
scottt - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#217855) #
July 3rd starting lineup facing Pettitte:

1. Green DH
2. Gonzalez SS
3. Bautista RF
4. Wells CF
5. Buck C
6. Hill 2B
7. Overbay 1B
8. Encarnation 3B
9. McDonald LF

Should be interesting.

TamRa - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#217856) #
Arencibia was "written off" by some because of the fact that even including this year's numbers, his career OBP is .315.  Even Miguel Olivo was better in the minor leagues,

is it really fair to use a career OBP when speaking of a prospect though? prospects are, by definition, works in progress and conflating what they did in their first year with where they have progressed to seems to stand in opposition to that  reality.

What you look for, IMO, is a trend line, not a career total.

further, JPA's "career" as a minor leaguer is so short that there's been little time for a trend line of progress to develop. On a normal development track, even for a catcher, he'd probably be playing his first year in AA right now assuming no setbacks.

As for the trend line of his career:

In 2007 it was .309 at Auburn in 228 at bats

in 2008, bumped over Lansing to Dunedin, it ROSE to .344 in a similar number of at-bats and against tougher pitching in a pitchers league.
When he was promoted to AA after less than 500 minor league at-bats it was again .309

In 2009, with less than 750 minor league at bats (not even two full seasons even at catcher's rates) he was rushed to AAA and had a quite predictable regression. (.284) - but that rate was still .048 higher than his batting average. Which was the best spread since his Auburn days.

This year it's at .361 which is again .048 higher than his batting average.

that's not wonderful, not what makes you an "elite" catcher, by itself - but Vernon Wells' career spread is .049 - so if we could get that sort of performance out of a catcher who could also slug .500 or better i think we'd be pretty pleased.


TamRa - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#217857) #
About EE - I think Alex was just taking a flier on the possibility EE would be claimed on waivers, while perhaps letting him know his level of job security.

Motivation, as it were. i think if EE comes back and hits like gangbusters then it won't be proof it was a mistake - it might have been exactly the tonic needed.

The question remains, not will he hit - but will he hit well enough to justify tolerating his defense. Especially if we get a chance to trade Overbay.


China fan - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#217858) #
.....some people have no problem admitting their mistakes, and that's a sign of strength.  You don't seem to be one of those people, though.....

I'm waiting to see if "mistakes" are "admitted" by all the other 29 teams in the major leagues who didn't bother to make a waiver claim for Encarnacion.   I suppose they'll be the next to slap their foreheads and admit that they should have followed the advice of the Lone Bauxite who knew the truth about EE.


jerjapan - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#217861) #
I've never understood the negativity around JPA myself.  Lots of prospect watchers have been singing his praises this year, KLaw earlier in June and now Goldstein over at BP. 

Kevin Goldstein: I think you need to focus on what he CAN do. In today's game, an average defensive catcher with that kind of power is an all-star.

jerjapan - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#217862) #
With Reed, Aguila and Padilla now out of the mix at AAA, and Sierra off the DL, should we be expecting a promotion for Mastorionni?  He certainly continues to play at about his max potential and could be a nice fourth OF with upside for us sometime next year .... 
Thomas - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#217864) #
I couldn't imagine a clearer example of a GM clearly admitting a mistake quickly, and without stubborness.

I couldn't imagine a clearer example of a fan clearly making unsupported assumptions about the reasons for a series of transactions.
Kelekin - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#217865) #
@WillRain: You're absolutely right.  And I am more than glad JPA is performing the way he is this here.  I simply am saying he has a greater chance of bust due to factors we've seen throughout his minor league career - the same doubts as to him being a major leaguer, and that's simply his discipline and free swing nature.   If he keeps working on that, he'll be fine.

And yes, Mastroianni better get promoted.  He deserves it and how exciting would it be to see a guy with that much speed on our team?  If Bautista goes, we'd definitely have an opening (since Lewis is not an every day player long-term).

SJE - Saturday, July 03 2010 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#217866) #

I dont think AA fretted over bringing EE back up, thinking this might look like an admission of guilt. Its not like he traded Cliff Lee away for next to nothing and now is looking to add starting pitching.

TamRa - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#217870) #
I think you could make a good case for all three starting outfielders in NH for promotion - if there were three openings in Vegas.

I can't believe Calderone and Matthews would stand in anyone's way though.

I think Loewen, because of his age and roster situation, needs to move up. I'm unsure how to decide between Thames and Mastorianni on the other one except that Mastorianni has over 1300 minor league at bats so far while Thames has just passed 500

Kelekin - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 12:37 AM EDT (#217871) #
I would keep Thames down for now and go with a starting outfield of Loewen, Mastroianni, and Lubanski.  Thames hasn't played a lot and I'm more than fine with him staying in AA all season because of it.  There is no question they are all deserving though and it's frustrating to watch those 3 have to play in AA every day, pennant race or not.
Sneeps - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 12:42 AM EDT (#217872) #

@Kelekin

JPA was young for his level last year.  That HAS to be taken into account when projecting prospects.

Kelekin - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 05:40 AM EDT (#217874) #
-@Sneeps:

But I don't think he fell off people's radars as much as has been said here.  I'm only reiterating what has been said previously - he can hit for power, but the question is what else will he be able to do in the major leagues?

I am more than impressed with his numbers this year, especially considering his road splits.  He deserves a call-up on that alone.

uglyone - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#217876) #
About EE - I think Alex was just taking a flier on the possibility EE would be claimed on waivers

for what purpose? to save $2 mil? if so, that would be the first penny pinching move made by AA since he took over, and it would be an extreme case of penny pinching over a very piddling amount.

I'm waiting to see if "mistakes" are "admitted" by all the other 29 teams in the major leagues who didn't bother to make a waiver claim for Encarnacion.   I suppose they'll be the next to slap their foreheads and admit that they should have followed the advice of the Lone Bauxite who knew the truth about EE.

Useful players pass through waivers all the time, especially ones with injury and motivation questions and guaranteed money.

I couldn't imagine a clearer example of a fan clearly making unsupported assumptions about the reasons for a series of transactions.

GM sends player down, player then destroys AAA while his replacement stinks at MLB, and GM calls him back a week or two later.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. No assumptions necessary, unsupported or otherwise.


China fan - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#217888) #
.....especially ones with injury and motivation questions and guaranteed money.....

You've finally acknowledged three of the many reasons why the Jays tried to dump him on the waiver wire and why nobody wanted him. 
Thomas - Sunday, July 04 2010 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#217898) #
for what purpose? to save $2 mil?

Trying to save $2 million on a player who is not in the team's future plans is not a valid reason and constitutes penny-pinching?

uglyone - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#217910) #

a player so "not in the future plans" that he was called back up a week later, you mean.

 

Spifficus - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#217911) #

a player so "not in the future plans" that he was called back up a week later, you mean.

Yep. After being passed through waivers for anyone to claim for $2M. I would say risking losing the player for nothing is a very good indication that he's not in the future plans. He remains what he was when he was picked up for Rolen - possibly flyer-worthy when you're already paying his salary.

uglyone - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#217915) #

heh.

"not in the future plans" one week, then called back up the next week.

AA can admit a mistake, you guys cannot.

I'm glad AA is in charge of the team. Stubborness gets you nowhere on that job.

China fan - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#217919) #
AA's only mistake may have been his generosity in giving EE another chance in the majors.  An excerpt from today's Jeff Blair report in the Globe & Mail:

In the 10th, with runners on first and second, Edwin Encarnacion popped up a sacrifice bunt – then froze as Alex Rodriguez let it fall before picking it up to start a double play. Gaston held his tongue afterward, suggesting twice that “you guys (reporters) should go and ask him what happened.” Not good for a player whose lack of hustle was one reason he was sent down to the minor leagues.

Spifficus - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#217921) #

"not in the future plans" one week, then called back up the next week. AA can admit a mistake, you guys cannot.

I'm curious. What exactly do you think Encarnacion is? What performance do you see him capable of, offensively and defensively? I see him as an about league average hitter that does every thing else possible short of spitting on fans to minimize his value. I wouldn't actually be opposed to one idea you suggested a bit back - platooning him with Overbay, assuming he can cut it at first. That's about it. I don't consider a short-side-of-a-platoon 1B that's sharing time with someone who is also on his way out the door part of any sort of future of the franchise. Instead, it's someone 29 major league teams didn't consider worth taking for $2M.

It's funny, I don't actually care if he plays 3B the rest of the year since someone has to go there with a glove on his hand and occasionally stop balls from going to the LF. I just find it ridiculously silly to criticize AA for the DFA, and then praise him for 'admitting his mistake'. EE's just not that important to matter. And certainly no part of the Jays long term plans unless he has an epiphany with the glove.

As for the bunt, I was both amused and horrified when I saw it. Amused that an obliviousness that would make Rios blush, and horrified because he just stood at home waiting to see if Rodriguez would catch the ball so he wouldn't have to move!

uglyone - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#217922) #

ah, so now it's resorting to the "he's insignificant" argument - as in it doesn't matter who we put in our starting lineup.

yep, that's the ticket. why should the GM care who's in the starting lineup?

92-93 - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 06:25 PM EDT (#217923) #

Gaston held his tongue afterward, suggesting twice that “you guys (reporters) should go and ask him what happened.”

For a "players' manager" this is a rather peculiar quote. Clarence asks a guy who has never successfully bunted in his entire career to lay one down, and when things go wrong, he hangs him out to dry.

The definition of irony is reading uglyone discuss stubbornness and willingness to admit a mistake. The only poor decision AA could have made here was to NOT see if another team was willing to take on E5's salary - he's an embarrassment to hustling ballplayers everywhere.

Spifficus - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#217924) #
Actually, given the choice of 'bad bat and average defense' and 'average bat and bad defense' at 3B, I'd go with the former, especially considering the goal of the year is development (especially for the pitchers). Overall, though, I'm not passionate on the matter since I don't really see him as particularly distinguishable from all the other replacement options... he just gets to zero differently than McDonald or Hoffpauir.

I have to say, though, I am amused that the reality that EE is a fungible part sticks in your craw so much.
China fan - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#217925) #
The quote from Gaston, if you read between the lines, suggests that it is Gaston himself who is increasingly fed up with Encarnacion and his lack of hustle, and quite possibly it was Gaston who persuaded Anthopolous to try to dump him on the waiver wire.   Gaston, as correctly noted, is normally a "players manager."  Normally he would defend his players at all costs.  It appears to me that Gaston has reached the point where he is unwilling to defend Encarnacion any more, and so, in this case, he just hung him out to dry.  If the Jays had any reasonable alternative to Encarnacion, he'd be gone.  Hoffpauir was the only 3B in the minor-league system who was judged capable of playing 3B in the major leagues at this point in time -- since Emaus is not ready -- so the Jays gave him a whirl.  It didn't work out, so now Gaston is stuck with Encarnacion again.  Don't expect him to be happy about it.

China fan - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#217926) #
.....Clarence asks a guy who has never successfully bunted in his entire career to lay one down, and when things go wrong, he hangs him out to dry.....

I disagree with this interpretation.  Gaston wasn't angry at the failed bunt.  He was angry at the failed hustle.  It was a bunting situation, and -- even if EE is a poor bunter -- at a minimum he should be able to run to first to avoid the DP.  It's the 10th inning, with runners on, so you've gotta avoid the DP, especially when it's purely a matter of running it out.

As for the failed bunt itself:  sure, EE might be a poor bunter, but nobody else was available, because Wells was ill and the other bench players were in the starting lineup.  In that case, EE's weaknesses are even more exposed.  Someone like Hoffpauir or Johnny Mac might have been able to bunt successfully, so in this case EE quite conceivably was the cause of the loss.

Alex Obal - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#217927) #
I just find it ridiculously silly to criticize AA for the DFA, and then praise him for 'admitting his mistake'. EE's just not that important to matter.

Weak. Minor bad moves are still bad moves. Their minorness does not excuse them.

With EE:
- Decent career hitting stats, even if in a bandbox in the weaker league, suggest talent. 
- Home run power keeps pitchers on their toes - there's something to be said for a lineup with no pitchers or Ecksteins in it.
- Telling demoted players they'll be back soon if they play well then burying them is a bad message to send.
- Hustle issues are hustle issues, make of them what you will.
- EE isn't under team control as long or as cheaply as any of the alternatives. If he turns out to be a player, the rewards are lower than they would be if Emaus (say) did.
- E5s wear out pitchers, inflate their stats, discourage strike throwing, and annoy the hell out of me.

These things matter. Maybe you don't think Encarnacion isn't clearly better than Hoffpauir in a vacuum, but they are radically different players. (Reason #496 to dislike WAR: fosters a culture where people only care about sizes not shapes, y'know?) I happen to think defense is important and consider EE unlikely to hit well enough to offset his glove, so I'd rather start hunting for a new third baseman now. In fact I'd go so far as to say sending EE down was a good move. But this is an argument worth having. It doesn't matter that Hoffpauir and Encarnacion won't be all-stars in 2012.
Spifficus - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#217928) #

Weak. Minor bad moves are still bad moves. Their minorness does not excuse them.

Sorry, I was playing with uglyone's original statement when he was first sent down that I can't seem to find at the moment, and am probably remembering wrong.

As for EE, if he's not a 3b, he has no real role on the team. As a 3b, his glove is horrible, his offense is average, and I don't think he's really a better (or worse) option than Hoffpauir... though he is more frustrating to watch. Seeing if someone had use for him at $2M was a smart move, and I'm confused by the veracity of reaction uglyone showed when the decision was first made (and especially so with this notion he's putting forward that he's a part of the team's future, which I find a bit bizarre.). In the end, it does seem a bit irrelevant, anyway, because he's presumably a healthy Snider wrist away from losing his playing time.

Alex Obal - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#217929) #
 Got it. That did sound fishy coming from you.

If EE is in the Jays' future plans then that phrase is meaningless. Jason Kendall, Yuniesky Betancourt and Kyle Farnsworth are in the Royals' future plans. Julio Lugo and Kevin Millwood are the next generation of Orioles. To replace any of them would be dumb.
92-93 - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#217932) #

The quote from Gaston, if you read between the lines, suggests that it is Gaston himself who is increasingly fed up with Encarnacion and his lack of hustle, and quite possibly it was Gaston who persuaded Anthopolous to try to dump him on the waiver wire.

Then Clarence shouldn't have spent the time dispelling this notion and calling out the radio team, Jerry & Alan, claiming that they don't know everything that goes on in the dugout and they shouldn't be ripping Encarnacion daily for not running out ground balls and strike threes in the dirt. - "When guys don't run the ball out, sometimes it's got nothing to do with their effort. It's got something to do with we tell them to pull up. [The move had] nothing to do with that. If a guy's not running or playing up to what I think he should be doing, if he's healthy, then I will say something to him. So it's got nothing to do with that."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100622&content_id=11450888&notebook_id=11457878&vkey=notebook_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

Mike Green - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#217934) #
The weird part is that all of the defensive metrics have Encarnacion as being much better than Bautista at third base this year. I guess that no one believes them in this particular case. Sample size and all.

More generally, it does bug me that no one on this club can bunt, steal a base or hit and run well.  I'm not arguing that one-run strategies are preferable to the long ball, but that there is a time and a place and there is the benefit of the element of surprise.


Spifficus - Monday, July 05 2010 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#217936) #
Yeah, I definitely don't buy into the defensive metrics at this point. The rule of thumb with UZR is usually 3 years is equivelent to 1 season of offense, so on a relative scale this would be like McDonald being an average hitter for a month or so... shocking as it is, it's happened before.
92-93 - Tuesday, July 06 2010 @ 01:23 AM EDT (#217947) #
I can buy that Bautista has been bad at 3B, but not RF. Obviously JoBau might be better there if he was playing 3B everyday, but it's reasonable to my eyes to say E5 has been the better defensive player this year, considering that he throws to a 1B very adept at scoopage.
mamboon - Tuesday, July 06 2010 @ 05:41 AM EDT (#217951) #

"...it's reasonable to my eyes to say E5 has been the better defensive player this year, considering that he throws to a 1B very adept at scoopage."

92-93, "adept at scoopage" ...some of the best Bauxite prose I've seen in a while. "Adept a scoopage" is to 1B fielding descriptions as Callix Crabbe is to baseball names.

By the way, I saw E5 play during his rehab at Dunedin last month. I remember thinking that they better move him out of Dunedin quick before those young, impressionable eyes on the Baby Jays see a $2 million a year guy dogging it in the Florida State League.

So, after his 10th inning lack of hustle on a bunt in Toronto, I guess E5 is not particular where he dogs it.

uglyone - Wednesday, July 07 2010 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#218012) #

The weird part is that all of the defensive metrics have Encarnacion as being much better than Bautista at third base this year. I guess that no one believes them in this particular case. Sample size and all.

Not really a surprise. Bautista is kind of a horror show at the hot corner - sharp grounders just go right through him, eating him up with regularity.

EE makes some errors, but he gets to the ball. And he even makes some highlight-esque plays out there to compensate somwhat for his errors. He's been a more than adequate third baseman defensively his entire time as a Jay.

Bautista? he can't play third - he just doesn't react quick enough.

92-93 - Saturday, July 10 2010 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#218142) #

He's been a more than adequate third baseman defensively his entire time as a Jay

Anybody who can say this either doesn't watch Blue Jays games at all or only watches Blue Jays games and not baseball in general, and therefore doesn't have any reference points. Troy Glaus was a more than adequate 3B; E5 is horrendous.

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