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There's been some talk about the defensive shortcomings of John Buck and Jose Molina, talk which generally focuses on one thing - baseballs rolling to the backstop. It's my understanding (I don't hear the radio team much) that Alan Ashby, a former catcher who was very good at this part of the game, has been talking about it all season.

Bauxite Flex is among the many who have been persuaded by Ashby, and said the other day that:

 I trust Ashby's judgment. A catcher better at blocking the ball would have saved Romero ten wild pitches and maybe a couple of losses.

Both of these things would be remarkable, if true. How true are they?

Romero has been charged with 18 wild pitches. That's a lot - it led the AL and was just one shy of Edwin Jackson's major league leading total. It's the third highest figure in team history: Dave Lemanczyk had 20 in 1977 (in 252 IP) and Juan Guzman set the record with 26 in 1993 (in 221 IP). 11 of Romero's WPs came with John Buck catching, 7 came with Jose Molina behind the plate. Molina also had a passed ball with Romero on the mound. What resulted from all of this?

This:

                                                         Base Situation            
     Date    Catcher  Inning  Score  Outs  Runner(s)            Before After Event    Outcome

 1   8-Apr    Molina    5      0-0    1    Guerrero                1     2    WP    Stranded on second
 2   8-Apr    Molina    7      0-0    2    Murphy                  3     0    WP    Murphy scored
     Game result: Romero left trailing 1-0 after 7 IP, Jays rally to win.

 3  13-Apr    Buck      4      2-0    2    Quentin                 1     2    WP    Stranded on second
     Game result: Romero left with 4-2 lead after 8 IP, got the W

 4  18-Apr    Buck      3      0-0    2    Willits                 1     2    WP    Stranded on second
 5  18-Apr    Buck      4      0-0    0    Kendrick                1     2    WP    Stranded on third
     Game result: Romero left trailing 1-0 after 7 IP, took the L

 6  24-Apr    Buck      4      0-0    2    Upton                   1     2    WP    Stranded on second
     Game result: Romero left with 3-2 lead after 7 IP, bullpen lost game.

 7  29-Apr    Buck      3      0-1    2    Rosales, Kouzmanoff    12    23    WP    Rosales, Kouzmanoff scored on Fox 2b.
     Game result: Romero left with 6-3 lead after 6, got the W

 8   4-May    Buck      3      1-0    2    Sizemore, Grudzielanek 13    23    WP    Sizemore, Grudzielanek scored on Choo single
 9   4-May    Buck      3      1-2    2    Choo                    1     2    WP    Kearns BB, Peralta 2 run double, Choo scored
10   4-May    Buck      4      4-4    1    Valbuena                2     3    WP    Scored on Sizemore single
     Game result: Romero left with 8-5 lead after 6 IP, got the W

11   9-May    Molina    2      1-0    1    Quentin, Rios          12    23    PB    Castro BB, Nix RBI single, Pierre RBI single
12   9-May    Molina    3      5-3    0    Rios, Konerko          12    23    WP    Quentin BB, Ramirez GDP, Konerko scored
13   9-May    Molina    4      5-4    1    Nix                     1     2    WP    Stranded on second
     Game result: Romero left with 5-4 lead after 5.1 IP, bullpen lost lead, Jays rallied to win.

14  15-May    Molina    5      1-0    1    Murphy                  1     2    WP    Stranded on second
     Game result: Romero pitches CG shutout, wins 4-0

15  11-Jun    Buck      4      3-3    2    Olivo                   2     3    WP    Stranded on third
     Game result: Romero left trailing 4-3 after 5 IP, took the L

16  16-Jun    Buck      4      1-1    1    Denorfia                1     2    WP    Stranded on second
     Game result: Romero left with 6-1 lead after 6 IP, got the W

17  11-Sep    Molina    4      0-2    1    Zobrist                 2     3    WP    Pena BB, Rodriguez BB, Hawpe GS homer
     Game result: Romero left trailing 6-1 after 4 IP, took the L

18  18-Sep    Molina    6      4-1    1    Ortiz, Beltre          12    23    WP    Lowrie RBI groundout, Drew RBI single, Hall single
     Game result: Romero left with 4-3 lead after 6 IP, got the W

19   1-Oct    Buck      6      1-1    1    Span                    1     2    WP    Hardy K, Mauer RBI single, Young GDP
     Game result: Romero left with 6-2 lead after 8, got the W
A few notes: I believe the TV guys have suggested that most of this was happening early in the season. They're right - three quarters of these events happened in the first six weeks of the season. John Buck, in particular, seems to have completely solved his problems with Romero's curve ball. Jose Molina, alas, remains as mobile as your average fire hydrant.

There were 24 baserunners aboard during the 19 mishaps, and 23 of them took an extra base (everyone but Grudzielanek at 3b on a WP on May 4). Of those 23 runners, 10 were stranded and 13 came in to score. You can't lay all that at the foot of the wild pitches, but certainly it's the only reason some of the runs came across - Murphy on April 8, Span on October 1 in particular. With two out, Rosales might have scored from first anyway on Fox's double - but he might not have done. Lowrie's RBI groundout on September 18 was a slow roller, so the WP did not blow an inning-ending GDP. Even if Ortiz was still running from first to second, the sure out was still at first base...

You obviously can't assume that the at bats would play out in the same fashion with the runner at his original base. Romero several times issued a walk to the very next hitter, which would have sometimes had the very same adbvancement effect (and also suggesting that maybe some of these WPs might have had something to with a pitcher fighting his control.) But we can't know this. The Missing Alternative Timeline strikes again.

At any rate, they certainly didn't cost Romero any losses. Romero went 7-3 in these 13 games and the team went 9-4. In only one of the four losses did one of these advancing baseruunners cross the plate. That was in the September 11 game against Tampa. That WP came with the Jays already trailing 2-0; Romero would give up a grand slam later in the inning and the Rays would win 13-1. There were bigger problems that day.

Anyway, if Ashby said 10 wild pitches and a couple of losses, he's clearly indulging in a bit of hyperbole.
Ricky and the Damage Done | 12 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Magpie - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#223493) #
This looks like a good time to see if the Twins are interested in trading for Encarnacion. At this rate, they'll give up Joe Mauer to get him...
Flex - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#223498) #
Well, I have to say I am flattered -- nay, honored -- that one of my posts has resulted in a Magpie omnibus data thread! After several years of more or less occasional posts, this is the day I arrived as a Bauxite.

Obviously I will now have to be a lot more careful about what the heck I post. The claims to 10 runs and maybe a couple of losses were mine, not Ashby's so I'm the one guilty of hyperbole. Although I feel I wasn't that far out of line, considering the data. Wrong, yes. But not grossly wrong.

Most of Buck's shoddy work happened earlier in the year, it's true, but he has been slipping again lately. Martinez has said as much once or twice on Sportsnet, and Ashby laid into Buck again a couple of days ago during the last Romero start. That's all I'm going by. I make no claim to baseball expertise other than my middle-aged abililty to interpret what I see with my own eyes (when Rogers allows me to see it) and what the well-paid announcers tell me.

But Magpie, if you tell me I don't need to worry about Buck, then that's good enough for me.

(By the way, I accidentally reported Magpie's post above as abuse. That's not because I have thin skin, it's because I'm on the road and using my iPhone to view this and I have clumsy thumbs!!)

Cheers, and here's to a fun season!

Magpie - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#223500) #
It reminds me a little of George Bell's errors. Bill James used to talk about this a lot because he worked for the Hendricks brothers (Bell's agents) preparing for arbitration cases, and three years in a row Bell and the Jays were heading for arbitration. Bell made lots of errors out in LF as we all remember, but James discovered that none of them actually hurt the club. Generally, the runners didn't come around to score or even if they did the Jays generally won the game because Bell would have three hits and drive in five runs. Because the parties kept settling just before actually going to the arbiter, he never got to use the data...
TamRa - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#223502) #
good analysis.

it reminds me of when everyone was crying over the number of stolen bases of Zaun, and when i looked it up it turned out that only twice (IIRC) were those stolen bases crucial and in both cases it was Carl Crawford, who might well have stolen on any catcher.


electric carrot - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#223504) #
Not on topic -- though I enjoyed reading the data and responses in this post as with nearly all of them -- just a thanks to all Bauxites for a fun season and all the excellent posts.  Really had fun reading this site this year.  I liked the normal informative posts, contests and  also really enjoyed the creative posts like the one with Haiku's -- and am still laughing at the one about GB and kissing his purple.

I will say though I did notice more personality assassination than I remember in past years and I do wish people could tamp that down some. _Tolerance_ I think is key to this site.

Also, congrats to the Blue Jays.  Super fun team this year!

(Woulda been a real contender with Halladay!)







brent - Sunday, October 03 2010 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#223508) #

I'm going to agree with Electric carrot. I try to welcome new commenters or ones who rarely comment because I remember how friendly it was here before. I know a lot of people left before the end with JP R and a lot of people have come here that were new.

 

I am glad Cito could "show off" his lineup dexterity- too bad it was the last game of the year. I would be a huge fan of him but I guess every manager has their thing.

Anders - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#223542) #

It reminds me a little of George Bell's errors. Bill James used to talk about this a lot because he worked for the Hendricks brothers (Bell's agents) preparing for arbitration cases, and three years in a row Bell and the Jays were heading for arbitration. Bell made lots of errors out in LF as we all remember, but James discovered that none of them actually hurt the club. Generally, the runners didn't come around to score or even if they did the Jays generally won the game because Bell would have three hits and drive in five runs. Because the parties kept settling just before actually going to the arbiter, he never got to use the data...

I could have sworn that story was about Jesse Barfield, I seem to recall there being a dimension about arm strength...

Chuck - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#223549) #
It was definitely George Bell. James was not going to argue that outfielder errors are meaningless, just that Bell's specific errors in that specific season just happened to be. It would have been a somewhat intellectually dishonest argument, to my mind, but James was being paid to help win a case and there were no rules. I can't believe that James makes it a rule to employ a post hoc analysis of events to guage their merit or cost.
lexomatic - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#223552) #
It was definitely Bell. I think the word meaningless here is misleading. I seem to remember that the argument was that the errors did not affect the outcome of the game. effectively the same but not trivializing the erros?
Mike Green - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#223586) #
The final UZR numbers for 2010 are in.  At the end of the day, Aaron Hill and Travis Snider ended up with significantly positive UZR and DRS (Dewan) numbers.  The OF numbers (save for Snider) were below average. 
Gerry - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#223587) #
Bit surprised by the Hill rating, he seemed to just miss a lot of balls this season.
Kasi - Monday, October 04 2010 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#223588) #
Snider has really good range out there. He just needs to cut down on some of the boneheaded mistakes. But effort he has along with a good arm. One of the last games against the Twins he made a nice throw from the corner that almost caught a Twins guy going for a double.
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