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And the Jays win their second straight in Arlington.


Jays 10, Rangers 3. The Jays staked Jesse Litsch to a 5-0 lead before he threw his first pitch. Litsch made it through six low-leverage innings with the winds blowing out of the park all night. First star of the game was Adam Lind, who homered twice – one to left center, the other a moon shot to right – and knocked in runs in each of his first three at-bats. Captain Obvious would like to point out that if Lind ever gets on any kind of hot streak, the Jays will likely be a very difficult team to shut out. Matt Harrison got beat up for the Rangers, allowing seven runs in his three innings. If it's any consolation, he did have a great won-lost record in 2008.

Captain Obvious' Trivial Insight on Win Probability: The Jays' first-inning rally started off with six straight plate appearances of station-to-station baseball. They might as well have drawn six walks in a row.

Escobar leads off with a single: .035
Patterson singles, Escobar to second: .053
Bautista walks, everyone moves up a base: .070
Lind singles, everyone moves up a base: .077
Rivera walks, everyone moves up a base: .066
Arencibia walks, everyone moves up a base: .054

So, if you open a game with a billion walks in a row, from a WPA perspective the most important one is the fourth one, the first RBI walk. It makes sense – the first walk puts a runner on first; the second one effectively puts a runner on second; the third one, on third, and so on, doing progressively more damage until the fifth one which drives in an insurance run. This... is kinda dry and unsurprising, but I hadn't thought of it before, and there wasn't much to talk about from last night's game, so there it is.

I guess I could mention John Farrell's egalitarian bullpen usage. Farrell pulled Litsch after six innings and 92 pitches, with a 10-3 lead and the 9-1-2 hitters due up. Okay, fine, get him out of there with a pat on the back for a quality start. Fair enough. But Casey Janssen, Shawn Camp and Frank Francisco pitched one inning each, with 11, 6 and 15 pitches respectively. You'd think with a 10-3 lead and no off days in sight, and Jo-Jo Reyes pitching tomorrow night in a difficult ballpark, it might make more sense to rest as many pitchers as possible instead of getting everybody involved. Minor point, but I would've played it a bit differently. I agree that giving Francisco a low-leverage inning was a good idea.

Scuffling Travis Snider had a bloop single and a walk. He's supplanted Juan Rivera as the Jays' official deer in the headlights, though he's got a different style; he looks out of control where at times Rivera looked totally impassive. At this rate I don't think Snider's going to get another hit all year, and a .070/.120/.180 line would be a pleasant surprise. We should probably just trade him for Jeff Francoeur or Emmanuel Burriss while the trading's good. Or a first-round draft pick. (Lottery protected, of course – gotta be realistic here.)

Okay, so I'm no good at this reverse jinx business. Though seriously given Snider's struggles I'd probably pencil him in for an 0-4 tonight against hard-throwing lefty Derek "The Dutch Oven" Holland, who's taken a few more baby steps toward the breakout year everybody expects from him. Jo-Jo Reyes looks to build on his very respectable last start, in which he went seven innings against Tampa. Rangers -180, Beer Club is tonight, first pitch 8:05.
27 April 2011: Adam Lind Awakens | 86 comments | Create New Account
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Mike Green - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#233658) #
The Fangraphs chart Alex has linked to indicates that Jesse Litsch was -.051 WPA for his start.  When a pitcher is gifted a five run lead before throwing a pitch, there is no way to go but down.  We think of WPA as measuring what a player has done to actually help his team win a particular game, but it is pretty clear that there are some issues with that. 
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#233659) #

Last year, many fans speculated that Snider was having trouble catching up to 94 mph fastballs, and this was supposedly the explanation for his troubles.  This year, that theory has been discarded, and the new prevailing theory -- a much more plausible one -- is that Snider is having trouble with curveballs, apparently because he is leading his swing with his hips.  This explanation is being offered by Gregg Zaun and by the good folks at the Mop-Up Duty blog, who provide a detailed diagram of what Snider is doing wrong.  It's definitely worth a read.

Alex Obal - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#233660) #
-.05 actually sounds about right to me. Litsch gave up a three-spot in the second, throwing the game safely into doubt again. When the bats put him ahead 10-3 two innings later, he did lose the opportunity to save face because the game was already over, but if that hadn't happened the leverage would have gone up again and afforded him ample opportunity to finish in the black.

Said three-spot was largely caused to Bautista losing a ball in the jet stream for a double, but that's a different can of WPA worms.
Flex - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#233661) #
Snider's flying open has been apparent from day one this season. Why hasn't the vaunted Murphy, for whom the players "pounded the table," according to Farrell, managed to fix such an obvious flaw?

I sometimes wonder, when someone like Zaun or Ashby nails an observation on what's ailing a player, whether they sidle up to a coach and whisper in his ear. I'd like to think it happens.
Alex Obal - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#233662) #
If Snider can't lay off curveballs, it doesn't help that he's flying open, but it could also be that he's having trouble laying off anything at the moment because he's pressing. His first three times up last night, he saw the grand total of four pitches, all fastballs. I'm not a hitting person, but that sounds like a guy who's trying to make an impression to snap out of a funk.
ayjackson - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#233665) #

But Casey Janssen, Shawn Camp and Frank Francisco pitched one inning each, with 11, 6 and 15 pitches respectively. You'd think with a 10-3 lead and no off days in sight, and Jo-Jo Reyes pitching tomorrow night in a difficult ballpark, it might make more sense to rest as many pitchers as possible instead of getting everybody involved.

I'd bet they're all available tomorrow.  But Camp needed the work too.  Even if they aren't available, that leaves, Frasor, Rzep, Dotel, Rauch (and ? - don't we have 8 in the pen right now?).  Everybody's useful out there and needs to keep sharp.

ayjackson - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#233666) #

His first three times up last night, he saw the grand total of four pitches, all fastballs.

Facing a lefty, he has to be aggressive on any pitch in.  He may only get one to hit and quite clearly they were trying to get ahead of him with early fastballs.  Against RHP he has been more patient.  Didn't he walk twice last night?

China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#233667) #

Villanueva is the 8th man in the bullpen.  But there are rumors that Janssen might be sent down to make room for Rajai Davis if he is called up today.  Which might explain why Janssen was pitching last night.  As for Francisco and Camp -- they probably needed an inning to keep them sharp.

As I mentioned in the other thread -- Davis is not what the Jays lineup currently needs.  They need someone to replace McCoy in the starting lineup.  McCoy is a bench guy, not someone who put in the starting lineup three days in a row.  Let's hope Encarnacion is ready to play today.  If he goes on the DL, who do you call up? 

Alex Obal - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#233669) #
Snider's line: GDP, single, flyout, walk (four pitches!), groundout. Another reason why the hacking doesn't really mean anything in this case, beyond the lefty/lefty thing, is that there were runners on base the first two times and Harrison was completely lost. Of course he was going to jump on him, and rightly so...
Jonny German - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#233671) #
Let's hope Encarnacion is ready to play today. If he goes on the DL, who do you call up?

Thames up and starting in left field. Snider to right, Joey Bats to third. Thames back down when Nix is ready to go, Nix starts at 3rd until EE is back.

And I disagree about the team not needing Davis back. Davis putting up a good OBP at the top of the order is a major key to whether this will be a respectable offence or not. Patterson's upside is "good bench player".
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#233673) #

I like the idea of calling up Thames, but the reality is that the Jays won't move Bautista to accommodate Thames.  They've promised Bautista some stability in the field, and -- because he is so crucial to the team -- they'll have to keep their promise. So if Thames gets called up, he is likely to be at DH, in my view.  Which means that it won't happen until Rivera is dumped or slumping again.  That's not my preference, but that's the reality.

As for Davis -- of course the Jays need him to fulfill the leadoff role and start hitting.  Nobody disputes that.  But this year he has been playing like a poorer clone of Patterson.  My point was that the bigger need is at 3B and 2B right now.  Unless Davis suddenly improves dramatically and provides a huge upgrade over Patterson, the bigger sinkhole in the lineup is McCoy.

Mike Green - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#233675) #
Thames up and starting in left field. Snider to right, Joey Bats to third. Thames back down when Nix is ready to go, Nix starts at 3rd until EE is back.

I agree with the first sentence.  As for the second, I would keep him after Nix returns to platoon with Rivera as DH.  McCoy or a reliever would go down.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#233679) #
the reality is that the Jays won't move Bautista

... to accomodate anyone. Not going to happen.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#233680) #
For five games? If Encarnacion and Nix are on the DL in April (with Lawrie having less than 25 games at a new position), I cannot really imagine Bautista being unhappy about a temporary move to a position he has played many times before.  It sure isn't the same as Troy Glaus, shortstop.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#233681) #
I think the only way we're ever going to see Bautista at third base again is if something goes funny in the fourteenth inning. That, I think, is the true meaning of Chris Woodward.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#233682) #
Ooh, very Zen. Maybe we can start an entirely separate thread called "What is the True Meaning of Chris Woodward?"  ;-)
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#233684) #
The True Meaning of Chris Woodward

It just came to me, I confess. One of those blinding flashes of insight. And then I knew.

Not quite Saul on the road to Damascus, I admit.
Jonny German - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#233689) #
If the Jays have in fact made promises to Bautista about playing right field exclusively I'm unaware of it. Is it a published fact? It seems unlikely given that they had him playing 3rd for most of spring training. Bautista did tweet in the offseason that he'll play wherever the team needs him but believes he's most valuable in right field. I took that as "I want to play right", but I also take it that he wouldn't have a hissy fit if the team asked him to play 3rd for a week. And starting 45 games at 3rd certainily didn't hurt him offensively last year.

But this year [Davis] has been playing like a poorer clone of Patterson.

Umm... 32 plate appearances? With an injury following PA #1? Davis' 2011 isn't even started.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#233696) #
I don't think they needed to make any promises. Teams generally leave their best players where they're most comfortable, and shuffle someone else. Still, we could certainly see Bautista fill in at third, if the supply of Chris Woodwards ever runs out. It will be a last resort, however.
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#233698) #
As for Jonny's point about the 32 plate appearances by Davis:  yeah, it's a tiny sample size, but that's also true for every other Jay this year.  Whether it's 32 PAs or 60 or 70 PAs, it's actually absurdly unfair for us to comment on any of them!  So maybe we should just suspend all commentary on any Jays player until June or July when the sample size is a bit bigger....  But that wouldn't be any fun at all, so I think we'll all continue to comment merrily for the forseeable future, and we'll all continue to be surprised when players dramatically improve or deteriorate (or stay the same) over the rest of this season.
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#233699) #
Speaking of small sample sizes, can anyone guess who currently has the 2nd and 3rd best OBPs on the Jays roster?   Jayson Nix and Jose Molina, that's who.   (Oh, and John McDonald has the 5th best OBP.)
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#233700) #
That's yet another way we know it's still April.

I don't know who I'd pick as the best baseball writer working in the mainstream media these days, but I often think it's Tom Verducci. A nice piece today on how what we should all expect from aging ballplayers is returning to normal.
Chuck - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#233701) #
On the subject of small sample sizes, Tabler (I believe it was him) mentioned that he thought it was surprising that a left handed reliever was being brought in to face Lind, or something along those lines. His rationale: Lind was hitting 200 points higher against LHP than RHP. Lind's lofty .381 AVG vs LHP is in all of 21 AB. Twenty-one frickin' at-bats.

No broadcaster should be allowed to provide numbers-based "analysis" unless they can somehow prove having even a modest high-school level of mathematical acumen. Tabler and Martinez talking math is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Chuck - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#233702) #

I don't know who I'd pick as the best baseball writer working in the mainstream media these days, but I often think it's Tom Verducci.

I think the strategy to compile such a list is to start with Posnanski at the top and then identify everyone at the bottom (Chass, Simers, Heyman, Pearlman, Klapisch, etc.). The handful that are left can then be slotted in the middle.

Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#233703) #
Agree entirely about Posnanski, but I don't tend to think of him as a baseball writer so much as a sports writer. He's like Boswell, he writes about them all. But baseball more than anything else, and yup, there's no one more worth reading.
uglyone - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#233704) #
I agree that it made little sense to pull Jesse when they did, especially with Reyes going tommorrow.

He was easily good for another inning.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#233705) #
Tabler and Martinez talking math

I know what you mean, but it suddenly occurred to me why they're so completely lost at sea sometimes. Guys like that see and understand the game at field level. They can see stuff from there that we can't even dream of seeing (and that we'd love to know.) The problem is, they can't see it anymore - they're in a booth on the third level. Gregg Zaun, watching the game on a monitor back in a studio, sees the game much better than Tabler and Martinez can.

There's no way around it. Of course, there are monitors in the press box. But you can't use them to watch the game (you use them to check the replays) - you simply can't. The game and the field is out there before you, how can you not watch it?
92-93 - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#233707) #
Litsch battled through 92 pitches on only 3 days rest. I dislike Farrell's quick cycling through relievers but have had no issues with his pulling of the SP.
Chuck - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#233708) #

I dislike Farrell's quick cycling through relievers but have had no issues with his pulling of the SP.

Farrell's bullpen usage seems like a chicken and egg question. Does he cycle through so many relievers because he has so many at his disposal? Or does he have so many relievers at his disposal because he's wont to cycle through so many?

Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#233709) #
Farrell's quick cycling through relievers

It's interesting and slightly surprising, if only because it's not how Terry Francona ran the pen in Boston.

This is exactly how Joe Maddon runs his bullpen, however. No AL manager uses more relievers than Maddon, and no AL manager uses his relievers in shorter stints than Maddon.
92-93 - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#233710) #
I think in this case it's clear he has so many relievers at his disposal because he's wont to cycle through so many. At the beginning of the year I made the same comment after Farrell's curious use of the bullpen in the first series, and a couple extra innings games later and the team was carrying NINE relievers.

Farrell must believe that short, successive stints for relievers is better on their arms than longer, more sporadic ones. We'll see how they hold up and how it affects their performance.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#233711) #
Twenty-one frickin' at-bats.

It's a lucky number, Chuck.  Blackjack.  Back in the day, on the Game of the Week, we sometimes heard from Allen Roth.  Wouldn't it be cool to have Tango or Mike Fast or some like-minded person providing little nuggets to the viewership?  It wouldn't work on radio, but on TV (with many people watching on big screens) you could have all kinds of fun ways of displaying thought-provoking information.  Maybe it'll start with an MLB.com "Broadcast of the Day".
Marc Hulet - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#233712) #
It would be nice to see FanGraphs writers talking stats on Sportsnet ;) Sort of the anti-Sam Cosentino.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#233713) #
My own early suspicion was that Farrell was cycling through so many relievers partially because its April, and the starters are still getting warmed up, and partially because he wants to actually see these guys working.

It has been interesting. No other AL manager has used as many relievers as Farrell - no one is even close. He's used 78 relievers in 22 games (3.55 per game) - the next manager most eager to go the pen has been Joe Girardi, who's used 64 relievers in 20 games (3.20 per game.)

Farrell hasn't had the shortest relief stints, however. Last year Gardenhire and Maddon were the only managers whose relievers averaged less than 1 inning per appearance. Farrell and Leyland make it a quartet this season, but they just barely qualify (Toronto relievers have worked 77.1 IP in 78 games, Detroit relievers have worked 61.1 IP in 62 games.) Maddon and Gardenhire are still the guys who comfortably lead this category; their relievers average about 0.85 innings per outing.
Alex Obal - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#233714) #
This is exactly how Joe Maddon runs his bullpen, however. No AL manager uses more relievers than Maddon, and no AL manager uses his relievers in shorter stints than Maddon.

I know nobody plays matchups as relentlessly as Maddon does in high- and medium-leverage situations, but does he use his relievers like this in blowouts? (Honest question, I have no idea and will only look it up if no one knows..)
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#233715) #
Magpie, what is the average number of innings pitched by Blue Jay starters this year, compared to league average?  To some extent, Farrell's high use of relievers is simply a result of the fact that his starters have been mostly unable to go past 6 innings, right?
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#233716) #
It would be nice to see FanGraphs writers talking stats on Sportsnet

Meh. I can look up the damn numbers myself.

What I'd really like - and what I know I'm not going to get - is someone who can see the baseball stuff that I can't see. Buck Martinez can see that stuff, if he's at field level. But he can't see it from the press box.

No one's going to actually tell you. If you asked Joe Torre (or any other guy who's spent his entire life in uniform, at field level) why he made that pitching change, he'll talk about a platoon matchup. He might say the guy was 1 for 6 against this pitcher. But what he saw on the field at that moment was something quite different, which informed his judgement, but which he can't actually say out loud. Something like...

Well, I've been watching this guy hit for the last couple of days and you can tell from how he's dropped his hands that he's worried about whether he still catch up to the fastball. So he's looking fastball, he's protecting himself against the fastball, by trying to get his swing started early. Which means a good changeup is going to get him. And that's why I brought in so-and-so...

uglyone - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#233717) #
"Litsch battled through 92 pitches on only 3 days rest."

I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure Litsch's 3ip stint in AA on friday was tantamount to a regular side session.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#233719) #
average number of innings pitched by Blue Jay starters this year

Toronto starters are averaging 5.78 IP per start, which is well below the league average (6.00), but still more than New York or Baltimore's starters. The managers going longest with their starters so far have been Joe Maddon (!), Mike Scioscia, and Ozzie Guillen.

Toronto starters have a 4.40 ERA, which is 12th in the league (the Angels starters are 2nd, the Rays are 3rd.)
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#233720) #
Thanks, Magpie.  I'm pretty confident that the Jays starters will go deeper into games as the season wears on.  Which means that we shouldn't worry too much about the bullpen at this early stage.  Besides, the bullpen has so much depth that there should always be a reliever or two in Las Vegas who is able to reinforce the bullpen if necessary.  For example, at this point Janssen is the 8th man in the bullpen, and he's a perfectly good replacement to bring up from Las Vegas (later in the season) if any of the first 7 relievers is worn down.
uglyone - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#233721) #
"Magpie, what is the average number of innings pitched by Blue Jay starters this year, compared to league average? To some extent, Farrell's high use of relievers is simply a result of the fact that his starters have been mostly unable to go past 6 innings, right?"

well I'm not Magpie, but I'll take a stab.

TBR: 6.7ip/gs
LAA: 6.5
CHX: 6.4
OAK: 6.4
CLE: 6.2
TEX: 6.2
MIN: 6.1
DET: 6.1
SEA: 6.0
BOS: 6.0
KCR: 5.9
TOR: 5.8
NYY: 5.7
BAL: 5.7

So Toronto's starters haven't been going deep enough.

But is that because they couldn't or because Farrel has a quick hook?


Pitches / Start

LAA: 101.0
OAK: 100.8
TEX: 100.5
SEA: 100.2
CHX: 100.1
DET: 99.1
BOS: 98.4
TBR: 98.2
TOR: 97.2
KCR: 96.1
CLE: 96.0
MIN: 95.7
NYY: 93.6
BAL: 92.5

hmm, I just surprised myself. Farrell actually hasn't been using as quick a hook as I thought. Especially since I wouldn't have begrudged him taking advantage of what is one of the deepest bullpens in baseball.

This one is on the starters - they're just not going deep enough.
Jonny German - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#233722) #
"Farrell hasn't had the shortest relief stints, however."

This is key in my mind. Frequent pitching changes during innings is something quite different from frequently going to a new guy each new inning. As I've stated before I believe the Jays staff in particular is likely to perform well with frequent short stints. That's what most of them have succeeded at in the past, and there's not a lot of 'talent slope' to this pen. Can't argue with the results thus far.
92-93 - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#233723) #
Examining this on such a macro level is really just confusing things. Let's go micro and keep it simple. Last night, he had 4 RP with at least 2 days rest (Camp, Janssen, Villanueva, Dotel), an additional one with 1 days rest (Francisco), and a converted starter LOOGY in Zep who'd thrown 19 pitches over 3 appearances in a week. The Jays had a 7 run lead with 3 innings to go and Farrell chose to use 3 relievers instead of one or two. That pretty much speaks for itself. His usage can't be pinned/blamed on the SP - if anything, you'd think he wants to conserve more arms in anticipation of tonight's Reyes start if it's an SP issue.
92-93 - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#233724) #

I believe the Jays staff in particular is likely to perform well with frequent short stints. That's what most of them have succeeded at in the past.

Which brings us to Rzepczynski, who hasn't succeeded at that in the past, and whose future development could very well be hindered by the Blue Jays stashing him in the bullpen and asking him to get warm and pitch in 3 out of 4 nights, albeit for 8 pitches or less. If this is truly a developmental season and we don't care about wins or losses what is Rzepczynski doing in the MLB bullpen and not working on being a starter in NH or LV?

Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#233725) #
Martinez and Tabler were talking at one point during the broadcast about my favourite subject, batter-pitcher matchups, and their own experience hitting against Nolan Ryan. Martinez, who was 2-10 against Ryan, was wondering why on earth he actually had 10 at bats against Ryan. "Who was the manager?"

One of them was Jack McKeon, in 1974. One of them was George Bamberger in 1979. Alas, I couldn't find the third game, when Buck went 1-3... Somewhere in the 1970s, but where?

I noticed Martinez had very good numbers against Larry Gura. Ah-ha... a finesse LH and one you used to catch in Kansas City. But he couldn't hit Paul Splitorff. And Tabler just destroyed Tommy John, but he couldn't do much with Mike Caldwell. Go figure.
China fan - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#233726) #
No point in conserving Janssen if he is about to be demoted to Vegas in a day or two to make room for Davis's return from the DL.  And presumably Farrell wants to get Francisco pitching more frequently, since he is being groomed to become the closer.  As the closer, Francisco would need the ability to pitch in back-to-back games, so he needs to be built up.  So the only decision that might arguably be questionable is the use of Camp, who might be better conserved for more meaningful games.  But the Jays still have five (5) relievers who are fully rested for today's game:  Frasor, Rauch, Dotel, Zep and Villanueva.  And of those, Villanueva is quite capable of going multiple innings.  So there are plenty of arms in the Jays bullpen.  I don't think there was any urgent need to conserve arms for today's game, even if it is Reyes who is starting.
scottt - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#233727) #
The Fangraphs chart Alex has linked to indicates that Jesse Litsch was -.051 WPA for his start.  When a pitcher is gifted a five run lead before throwing a pitch, there is no way to go but down.  We think of WPA as measuring what a player has done to actually help his team win a particular game, but it is pretty clear that there are some issues with that.

The issue with WPA and pitching is that the leverage and outcome is calculated for every at bats. That's ideal for hitters, but not so great for starting pitchers. He came in with the bases empty and no out and allowed 3 runs over 6 innings. That's a quality start, but that also adds up to a 4.5 ERA. It can be argued that the score for that is more or less 0, although Drabek got .167 for the same result.
Matthew E - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#233728) #
Anybody have any idea why the game isn't on TV? Rogers is just showing soccer, for some stupid reason.
ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#233729) #
The broadcast schedule says it's on SNET1
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#233731) #
Trust me, you aren't missing much. Another Reyes meltdown after an E5 by E5. I'm not sure what makes Reyes special - he throws 89-91 with inconsistent command, and not much in the way of secondary stuff. Second time through the order, the big Texas bats didn't appear to be fooled at all.
Matthew E - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#233732) #
Never mind; my mistake. We didn't have Sportsnet 1 programmed into our TV, but we did have one that I thought was Sportsnet 1. All sorted out.
electric carrot - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#233733) #
FREE THIRD BASE (from blue jay fielders!)
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#233734) #
In his last 22 major league starts, going back to June 2008, Jo-Jo Reyes is 0-11, 6.51...

The Reverse Mojo never really works when you're consciously trying to invoke it.

I'm beginning to think this guy might clear waivers. I'd certainly like to find out.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#233735) #
Or if the organization decided to move Zep to the rotation and Reyes into a low leverage relief role, that too would be OK.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#233736) #
I'd settle for that.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#233737) #
Meanwhile, David Purcey has been almost perfect (retired 13 of 14) in three outings for Oakland. I'm this close to wondering if they can bring back Brian Tallet (ah, he's on the DL anyway.)
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#233738) #
How far away is Zach Stewart? He seems like a plausible mid-season (if not sooner) callup, if he can continue to pitch well.

Can someone please call a halt to the embarrassing baserunning decisions by the Jays?
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#233739) #
Dotel against a LHB in a high-leverage situation? Against Moreland, who has a career 905 OPS against RHP, and 508 OPS against LHP? Why, Farrell, why, why?
dan gordon - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#233740) #

Yah, bringing in Dotel there is a bad move.  The funny thing is that in spring training Farrell mentioned that Dotel was weak against lefthanders and that is why he didn't think of him as the best guy to be the closer, and that he would be used in situations where lefties wouldn't hurt him.  Very strange decision - sure, there's a string of righties after Moreland, but he could bring in somebody else to face Moreland and then go to Dotel if he really wanted to use Dotel.

Yes, I agree about the baserunning blunders.  They are losing a lot of baserunners.  If you get say 36 AB's per game on average, and you burn 2 baserunners a game (like McCoy and Patterson tonight), that's like taking 2 hits and turning them into outs, or reducing your team batting average by 2/36, or 56 points.  That's an awfully big hit to be taking.  Very frustrating to be seeing this happen so often.

92-93 - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#233741) #
So Dotel is allowed to face a lefty in a tie game, but down a run with no runners on and 2 outs Farrell pulls Dotel for Zep?
raptorsaddict - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#233742) #
That ones on Farrell. Oh well.

I'd like someone to do an analysis of what the outcome would be if Dotel walked EVERY lefty he faced. Always. Seriously, why not?

Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#233743) #
I'd like someone to do an analysis of what the outcome would be if Dotel walked EVERY lefty he faced. Always. Seriously, why not?

Seeing as how LHB were 2-10 against Dotel this season before the Moreland AB, I imagine it would be just a little bit worse.

I realize that wasn't really a serious question...
dan gordon - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#233744) #

I saw an analysis once of a scenario where a team was made up of Babe Ruth in his 60 HR season, and 7 other position players who were each the weakest hitting regular in baseball at their position that year, and what would happen if you just intentionally walked Ruth every time he came up, vs pitching to him.  The team scored more runs when Ruth was walked each time rather than when he was pitched to.  It's hard to beat a 1.000 on base percentage, so no, interesting idea, but Dotel shouldn't be walking every lefty he faces.

The more I'm seeing of Farrell, the less impressed I am with his in-game managerial abilities.

Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#233745) #
the less impressed I am with his in-game managerial abilities.

Death and taxes....
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#233746) #
I think as a former pitching coach, Farrell probably wanted Dotel to start the inning, rather than parachute him in to face the second batter. He was probably also hoping he could sneak an out against Moreland, then go to work on the RHBs. And he probably wanted to avoid burning Zep, his only lefty, to get one out in the seventh.

He got massively burned, obviously. It really was a disaster waiting to happen - a ROOGY who can't get LHBs out, brought in in Arlington to face a LHB who rakes against RHPs.

This game reminded me a bit of the M's game against King Felix: a chance to sneak a much-needed road win in a game the Jays weren't really supposed to win (because of an unfavourable starting pitching matchup). In both games, the Jays had a chance to win, but blew it with shoddy play overall and some questionable bullpen management.

Two pluses, though: the Jays fought hard to the end, and some of the key bats (Rivera, Lind) appear to be heating up.
Magpie - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#233747) #
a ROOGY who can't get LHBs out

I realize that you don't mean that literally - but even a RHP who struggles as much against LH bats as Dotel still gets them out almost 60% of the time. LH batters had hit 7 HRs in their last 174 AB against Dotel. Farrell really did have a more than decent chance of getting away with it.
ayjackson - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#233748) #
I think as a former pitching coach, Farrell probably wanted Dotel to start the inning, rather than parachute him in to face the second batter. He was probably also hoping he could sneak an out against Moreland, then go to work on the RHBs. And he probably wanted to avoid burning Zep, his only lefty, to get one out in the seventh.

nailed it
greenfrog - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#233749) #
Yes, Farrell had a decent chance of getting away with it. There are arguments to be made both ways. But I think you have to be fiercely competitive with your matchups in that situation (a la Joe Maddon). No sense in giving the other team a strongly favourable matchup, especially when:

(1) Moreland has a massive R/L split (as noted above) - 400 points' difference in OPS
(2) Dotel has a massive R/L split (check his stats over the last couple of years) - LHBs have something like a 1000 OPS against him
(3) It's a tie game in the seventh in Arlington
(4) You have an effective lefty reliever available
(5) Your team probably has an overall advantage in the battle of the bullpens for the last few frames (with Feliz and O'Day out with injuries)
scottt - Wednesday, April 27 2011 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#233750) #
For McCoy, the fault should lie with the 3rd base coach. No?

With Patterson, it's a bit different. You bat him 9th to steal. Both Escobar and McCoy grounded out in the inning, so it's kinda moot.

Rivera's passed Snider.

greenfrog - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 12:11 AM EDT (#233752) #
Brett Wallace watch: he's now up to 347/417/467 with Houston. As one of the few BB fans still on the Wallace bandwagon last season, I have to admit I'm pulling for him. I still think he has the potential to be a respectable major-leaguer, although as a first baseman he's unlikely ever to be a star.
92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#233753) #

And he probably wanted to avoid burning Zep, his only lefty, to get one out in the seventh.

So he could save him to get one out in the eighth already down a run with two outs in the inning?

For McCoy, the fault should lie with the 3rd base coach. No?

It was the right send. McCoy slowed down as he came into 3rd and still was able to slide in under the tag.

Over the past couple of weeks I think it's become pretty clear why Corey Patterson never capitalized on all those tools. He seems to be afraid of the outfield wall and isn't a very smart baserunner, which with his speed probably has ticked his managers off over time. He's a nice 4th OF but is clearly exposed playing CF everyday.

I hope the error doesn't get into E5's head. It was a tough play down the line and his throw actually wasn't that bad, one that most of the time is picked by the 1B. That inning, and the loss, falls squarely on JoJo Reyes' shoulders, who did himself no favours by walking a batter, hitting another, and getting pounded all over the field. Hard to blame it on Farrell.

 

The_Game - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 12:59 AM EDT (#233754) #
I'm not sending Mike McCoy on Nelson Cruz's arm, and I was surprised that Butterfield did.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 01:02 AM EDT (#233755) #
The most interesting portion of Reyes' line for the game is 6 R, 0 ER. (E: Encarnacion).   So, chances are Reyes pitches another 7-ish inning start without the error, leaving with a 6 - 0 lead?
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 01:19 AM EDT (#233756) #
chances are Reyes pitches another 7-ish inning start without the error, leaving with a 6 - 0 lead?

Slim and none.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 01:23 AM EDT (#233757) #
Applying the same official scorer logic that lets Reyes off the hook for 6 runs... (recreate the sequence without the error)

Moreland's strikeout ends the third inning.

Bottom of 4th

Kinsler walk
Andrus single
Young double
Beltre hit by pitch
Cruz single
Napoli double

And five runs are in...
rfan8 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 08:39 AM EDT (#233759) #
LOL - if we're playing that game then I have to say that I thought Kinsler caught a break on the 2-2 pitch. I thought that was a strike and only looked inside because he was crowding the plate.
rtcaino - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#233760) #
Kinsler caught a break on the 2-2 pitch.                 I also thought that.     And Patterson could have caught one of the double's as well.     7 innings is a lot of ask. But I think there is a good chance that if they Jays could've gotten Reyes' to the doug out for a breather, he likely would have avoided a complete breakdown and perhaps scrapped together a quality start.     For all intents and purposes, he could have been out of the inning twice before any runs scored. Which is not to say he wasn't getting hit hard and going deep into a lot of counts.
MatO - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#233763) #
The Napoli double really bothered me.  Patterson comes running over, slows down, stops and waits for the ball to hit the wall.  By that time, Snider has come all the way from LF to back-up the play, only to find that Patterson is backing-up himself.  Maybe Patterson couldn't get to it but I think if he kept running he had a shot.
Anders - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#233768) #
Scattered musings:

Yes, I agree about the baserunning blunders.  They are losing a lot of baserunners.  If you get say 36 AB's per game on average, and you burn 2 baserunners a game (like McCoy and Patterson tonight),

We had a debate about this at Beer Club (very fun btw.) I thought that they were completely justified in sending McCoy when Cruz bobbled the ball. There were 2 outs, McCoy runs ok, and Juan Rivera was on deck (lo, maybe they shouldn't have sent him after all.) It was a bang bang play at the plate on a perfect throw. The only run expectancy chart I could find was this one, from a (much) higher scoring era, and it has 2nd and 3rd two outs as worth .634 runs. Keeping in mind that scoring this season is roughly 1-1.25 runs below 99-02, and I don't think it was an egregious decision, more of a coin flip. If Rivera gets a hit they score both runs, if not they get nada anyway. The Patterson steal, on the other hand, was a real head scratcher. It seemed like a delayed steal where he didn't run hard; it was a delayed throw and he was still out by several feet.

As for Reyes, he nibbled, wasn't in the zone, couldn't put anyone away, and when things were falling apart, kept pumping in 85 mph breaking balls that caught too much of the zone. I continue to fail to see what the big deal is. The Encarnacion error wasn't ideal, but I thought that a generous home town scorer could have called it a hit. It was a tough play, and a perfect throw would have beaten the runner by about a step and a half. That he couldn't get anyone out afterwards is still on him.
ayjackson - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#233769) #
I think Sunday would be a good day for a tandem start by Rzep/Villanueva, as a means of stretching out Rzep and switching spots with Reyes.  Perhaps Reyes would be better suited as the lefty in the pen.  He might be able to hit 95 in short stints.
China fan - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#233827) #
If the Jays had wanted to stretch out Zep as a starter option, wouldn't they have sent him to the Las Vegas rotation at the start of the season?  I think the Jays reached the conclusion, some time ago, that Zep is a better reliever than a starter.  That might be right or wrong, but that's what the brain-trust appears to believe.
ayjackson - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#233868) #

That might be right or wrong, but that's what the brain-trust appears to believe.

I don`t disagree.  I think we are running out of options for the fifth starter, though.  Is Richmond next?  Stewart? 

While I believe Rzep has more value as a starter, it would be nice to have him AND Reyes in the pen (two lefties), especially if Rzep is going to be treated as a loogy.

92-93 - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#233915) #

Right or wrong it's a bad decision. There's nothing to lose by seeing if Rzepczynski will actually fail as a MLB starter. A non-contender doesn't need a LOOGY.

Magpie - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#233933) #
There's nothing to lose by seeing if Rzepczynski will actually fail as a MLB starter.

That's pretty much what I think. Unlike, say, David Purcey (or Jo-Jo Reyes, or Scott Downs in 2006, or Paul Quantrill in 1997), I don't think Rzepcynski has eliminated himself from the starting pitcher discussion. Not yet. I think he's still a contender, at least.

We may eventually get to that Scott Downs fork in the road - a mediocre starter or a good reliever - and have to proceed from there. I'm not sure we're there yet.
ayjackson - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#233937) #
I agree obviously with mags and gloryears, but I wonder if this is somewhere AA and Farrell may disagree.  I`m thinking that Farrell loves having Rzep in the pen, doesn`t see a lefty alternative, and might need convincing to put him back in the rotation.
bpoz - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#233958) #
I think Zep can still become a starter. J Key spent a year in the pen.
Further (but with uncertainty) does Zep learn more in the Jay's pen or more starting in LV. If a sure thing or almost sure thing reliever exists then championship teams need some of them. Maybe Zep can be that good. But as a starter where does he play in the 5 man rotation. Last year he got injured and IMO emerged as the best #5 SP. This year he has to wait until the Reyes experiment is over "because it failed", if somehow it succeeds then he is waiting for Litsch, Drabek & Cecil.
Then we have the numbers game, with 4 or 5 successful SPs, AA probably makes trades due to a surplus ie Marcum, and you have a more polished Zep as an option.
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