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It's the battle of the birds as the final match-up before the all-star break. Baltimore are in first place for the number one pick next season with their 25-61 record. The Blue Jays are a full seven games better, in fourth. Your Blue Jays have been playing better but there are some enforced changes for this weekend. Marcus Stroman will not pitch before the break, resting his "cramp" that's obviously was not a cramp. The enigma, wrapped in a riddle that is Aaron Sanchez will pitch tonight, who knows what that will bring.

Lourdes Gurriel made a fine diving catch in left field last night but tweaked his wrist in the process. He needs to sit at least one game. Randall Grichuk has a dodgy back, he needs to rest too. So Jonathan Davis has been recalled as insurance and mighty Eric Sogard goes to the outfield. The Jays brass need to get Cavan Biggio more reps at second while they figure out if he can play there long term.

SCHEDULE

Friday, 7:07, Dylan Bundy vs. Aaron Sanchez

Saturday, 3:07, Andrew Cashner vs. Clayton Richard

Sunday, 1:07, Gabriel Ynoa vs. Trent Thornton

Orioles at Blue Jays, July 5-7 | 143 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
scottt - Friday, July 05 2019 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#376696) #
I'm sure the Marlins will soon crater and drop behind the Jays.
A 5th place finish is possible if Borucki, Zeuch, Merryweather, SRF and whoever gets to start don't get healthy or struggle. I'm incline to think they end up 7th or 8th.
Sellers ahead will start losing more, especially if they trade a key player or two.

Grichuk and Gurriel have the day off.

uglyone - Friday, July 05 2019 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#376698) #
Go go

Go Danny

Go go go
Gerry - Friday, July 05 2019 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#376700) #
Biagini needs to be fixed.
Spifficus - Friday, July 05 2019 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#376702) #
I know you don't want to see a Biagini pitch ever again, Gerry, but don't you think neutering is taking it to a bit of an extreme? I mean, who is to say any of his kids will even want to play baseball?
dan gordon - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 01:09 AM EDT (#376708) #
Another very interesting column on CBS Sports - this one by Ariel Cohen. Looks at plate discipline by analysing various outcomes on pitches in/out of the strike zone. The top 25 players in mlb (min 40 AB's) are listed. There is only 1 Blue Jay in there, but he is #1. Cavan Biggio. He is also #1 in a sub-component of the overall stat, not swinging at pitches outside the strike zone.
scottt - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 06:46 AM EDT (#376711) #
There are positive signs. Gurriel has improved a lot. Guerrero has shown plate control in the minors.
Bichette has had a much higher OBP in the minors than Galvis had. Jansen has good walk/strikeout ratios. There should be an improvement just by moving away from Maile.

grjas - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 08:22 AM EDT (#376713) #
For those fans that think the Jays always lose out on FAís because they donít offer enough money, Kawhiís signing is a reminder that for some athletes itís not just about the largest contract.
grjas - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 08:28 AM EDT (#376714) #
Sorry that should read when they lose out...they do sign FAís...occasionally
greenfrog - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#376716) #
The Jays now have a strong position player core in VGJ, Bichette, Gurriel, Jansen, and Biggio (Grichuk is an adequate option in RF if he doesnít have to hit in the middle of the order, though he might eventually end up as a fourth OF). And there appears to be another interesting group coming in Groshans, Kirk, Stevenson, Orelvis, Moreno.

The crop of pitching prospects isnít as strong but there are some good arms in the system: Pearson, Kloffenstein, Manoah, Pardinho, Diaz, Murphy, Winckowski, among others.

So, a good start. The organization needs to keep adding as much young talent as possible to build on what they have. They should do this organically and ideally avoid having to trade good position player talent for pitching.

Also, I agree with the idea of keeping players like Sogard and Galvis and Smoak around on short-term contracts. Iím skeptical that Tellez is a long-term solution at 1B or DH.
ayjackson - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#376717) #
Question is how many years behind the hitters are the pitchers. Looks like at least 3 on average. I hope they're willing to spend some money to keep hitters 1.0 around for when pithers 1.0 and hitters 2.0 come along.
PeterG - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#376718) #
I like the list of pitchers you mention Greenfrog. Perhaps Maximo Castillo should be considered a serious prospect as well.
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#376719) #
I know there's a hesitancy here to trade good young players but on balance alone I would love to see the FO move some of its infield prospects for SP prospects. I know P is riskier. Here's something I would do, assuming all the top flight pitching prospects are off limits (Whitley, Mize, Luzardo)...even if some are injured or bad numbers they're still the best with pedigree and potential.


Blue Jays Acquire (2 players)
Matt Manning
Top 50-100 prospect

Tigers Acquire
Bo Bichette or 2-3 lesser prospects in A ball


Matt Manning is one example of a good young prospect working on the same timeline as our first wave. He's ready now.
Spifficus - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#376720) #
I don't see the need to trade down. If the Mize, Whitley, Gore group are off-limits, then Bichette would be the same. Diffusing risk doesn't make sense as a motivation, since, well, you're dealing for pitchers. The only way this makes sense is if you aren't high on Bichette and are trying to sell at max price. I'm definitely not in that camp.
scottt - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#376721) #
Sogard, Galvis and Smoak are strictly short term options.

You don't want any of those guys around in 3 or 4 years.

I haven't seen any team trade good position players for pitching in a long time.
Even the Sale trade was for prospects--who haven't done much, when you think about it.

Cole was traded for surplus guys.

AA traded almost all his pitching prospects for established pitchers  and in the end didn't even have enough to get it done. So, I'm enjoying the slow, steady progression of pitching talent.

bpoz - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#376722) #
The trading of Bichette!!!

I am superstitious. We are successful developing good/great SPs. We were also good at developing OFs. The SPs and OFs were produced in quantity. Also good at 1B development.

We have practically no success in developing Cs, IFs and 3b. So trade them and maybe the odd 1B prospect.

I don't want any of Detroit's SP prospects. Morris, Verlander and Smolz seem to be all their big successes in the last 40 years. My information could be wrong. I have not checked in detail Detroit's other SPs over the years.
uglyone - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#376723) #
Instead of trading for pitchers concentrate on extending stroman.

2021

- Stroman 30
- Pearson 24

2 guys who should be anchors

- Sanchez 28, Borucki 27, Thornton 27, Pannone 27, Paulino 27, Waguespack 27, Murphy 26, Merryweather 29

Probably mostly MRP by then but maybe some bottom rotation usefulness or even one breakout into a mid rotation guy.

- SRF 25, Zeuch 25, Perez 25, Logue 25, Diaz 24, Manoah 23, Winckowski 23, Castillo 22

A little more upside than the previous group - I'd be dissappointed if we didn't get at least one decent starter out of this group by 2021.

- Luciano 21, Pardinho 20, Kloffenstein 20, Williams 20

Won't be ready yet but I have strong hopes for at least 2 of these guys becoming high quality mlb SP, and hope that one of them breaks out into an upper rotation guy.
SK in NJ - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#376724) #
Obviously having more pitching depth in the minors would be ideal, but I'd much rather have a very strong young position player core and lots of money to spend to add pitching either in free agency or trades. Pitching prospects are very risky. I think it is more likely that the team consolidates some of the prospect depth in trades for starters at some point in the next year or two. The cost of acquiring vets in trades and free agency has gone done dramatically as well.
grjas - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#376725) #
Instead of trading for pitchers concentrate on extending stroman.

Yup. I donít have a problem trading him for upper end talent but if itís two or three middling prospects Iíll be really disappointed.
hypobole - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#376726) #
Or trade Stroman and sign him as a FA after 2020. Worked for the Yankees with Chapman.
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#376728) #
"The only way this makes sense is if you aren't high on Bichette and are trying to sell at max price. I'm definitely not in that camp."

I don't think anybody thinks we would be selling high on him. Everyone including myself sees him as a top 5 MLB prospect.

If we can't sign Gerrit Cole or trade for another pitcher..that's the scenario where I think FO needs to move quality prospects for quality prospects to balance things out unless they just plan to out perform every other team offensively.
PeterG - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#376729) #
I think it's too soon to make that kind of deal. I would not trade Bichette for pitching. There is good pitching coming. Fans need to be patient. A good arm or 2 may come back in trade for Stroman/Giles. There is a possibility of a FA signing in the off season. A healthy Shoemaker should be here next season.

There may be a future time for dealing a young position player for pitching but that time is not now. The current situation looks worse than it is because of injuries. We need to see more of what we have and what is coming before taking such a step.
dalimon5 - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#376730) #
PeterG,

Makes sense. Well then it's probably safe to say that the best move is to keep your top 5 infield prospect in Bichette rather than creating a challenge trade, but if there is a hypothetical situation with a desperate team like the Tigers that want an infielder and is willing to overpay then you pull the trigger.
LouisvilleJayFan - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#376731) #
Bichette getting traded away would no doubt trigger a relapse of my Michael Young depression.
scottt - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#376732) #
I always felt Shapiro was committed to the Bichette, Guerrero, Biggio core...
The guys who grew  through the system together and who will want to win together...

The Tigers don't look very good right now.
Castellanos is the only guy hitting better than average and he's on the way out.
They might be trading their best pitcher who still have 3 years of control.
I'd be surprised if they want to trade away their best pitching prospects as well.

We're 3 months into the rebuild. Some teams are several years into it and don't seem to be progressing.

vw_fan17 - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#376734) #
A healthy Shoemaker should be here next season
Because he's shown nothing but health in the past? This chicken's not hatching in most scenarios, IMHO..

John Northey - Saturday, July 06 2019 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#376735) #
Rebuilds, like anything, require commitment and a plan. Trading Bichette would be high on the level of stupid ideas unless you get something amazing in exchange - top 10 prospect plus more as he is already a top 10.

Nah, right now the vets and kids who don't factor into the future like Billy McKinney, Teoscar Hernandez, and Brandon Drury are the ones to trade. I see those 3 as extras to close a deal. Luke Maile also lands into that category.

Right now the Jays are in accumulation mode - get as many quality kids as you can and see who sticks. Pitching is taking over as the key worry with CF a concern as well. Trading Bichette is not part of any rebuilding plan.
Kelekin - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 01:55 AM EDT (#376738) #
bpoz, I'd say Scherzer was probably a big one to forget about.
Spifficus - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 02:08 AM EDT (#376740) #
Apparently, it's pretty easy to forget about him... and his 37 starts with the Diamondbacks before getting dealt in the Curtis Granderson / Edwin Jackson (and others) threeway.
scottt - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 08:14 AM EDT (#376742) #
It's probably less about forgetting that not paying attention to Arizona.

Last place Arizona traded Swertzer for Ian Kennedy and Edwin Jackson (the guy we don't want to see pitch). It worked alright for them. The next year they flipped EJacks to the White Sox for Daniel Hudson (the guy who currently throws well in the Blue Jays pen) who became a force, going 16-12 with a 3.49 ERA and winning a silver slugger award. Kenney went 21-4 with a 2.88 ERA.

Hudson then had back to back TJ surgeries in 2012 and 2013 and was non-tendered and bounced around as a reliever.

eldarion - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#376743) #
Bichette looks to be a daunting combination of power, speed and patience. It took two months of struggling at AA before something clicked and he hasn't looked back. Guerrero is going through the same challenge now. Once he surmounts the challenge, this could be a lineup to behold in 2020 with a few choice acquisitions.
grjas - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#376744) #
Given the hesitancy in the market to trade high end prospects for MLBíers, I wonder if the Jays should try packaging Stroman with some minor leaguers- eg would Stroman plus 1 or 2 B pitching prospects bring back an A prospect? Heck Iíd even package Stroman and Giles for one top end prospect if that was the only option, rather than getting 3 or 4 B prospects.

I do worry though that where Atkins falls short is not so much conservatism, but innovative deal making, an area in which AA excelled.
scottt - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#376747) #
What AA deals were innovative?
The Morrow deal?

Most of his deals were taking large contracts in exchange for prospects.

What you're suggesting is basically a reverse of the Hutchison deal.
 Didn't work that great for Pittsburgh.

Teams are either selling or buying, not swapping.
That happens during the winter.

The Jays will have to keep managing the 40 roster carefully.
You can't have too many guys on the 40 who are not ready to be called up.
At some point you have to bring those guys up and finish their development at the MLB level.

Take Sanchez for example.
 Maybe some team might think they can fix him and overpay. That wouldn't make Atkins innovative.


dalimon5 - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#376748) #
"Trading Bichette is not part of any rebuilding plan."

If he's ever traded it will be for a guy that the other team wasn't planning to trade as part of their rebuilding plan, obviously. Your comment makes it sound like we want to trade him for the sake of it. We want bonafide prospects around the diamond so you try to find surplus if you need to trade for that guy. If FO uses free agency great...most of us agree they won't.

It's so simple - trade away something and get similar value back. You don't aim to get back less and you don't aim to hose the other team. You trade an inconsistent SP with a bad track record and you will get back Teoscar Hernandez. You trade a so so short stop and you will get back a so so SP with some so so potential like Thornton. You trade Leone and Greene, middling players with some solid potential and some ability shown to be very good and you get back a middling player, flawed with huge potential for power in Grichuk.

If you want to keep every great player you have and trade AAAA guys like Teoscar and Drury then you better be expecting more AAAA guys coming back and expect more holes in the rotation or generally more flawed players. Instead of trying to trade your flawed guys and outsmart the other gm to bring back a flawed guy who might magically turned into a superstar like EE or Bautista, maybe we should just do a solid trade to balance out the core. It doesn't have to be Bichette, it can be anybody else with solid value. That means Vlad, Bichette, Jansen, Pearson, Kloffenstein, Groshans, Manoa, maybe Biggio...after that we only have guys in minors that are attractive and we will need them for the "waves" part of the rebuild. Other than those guys being traded there are few other options:

John, how confident are you that Gerrit Cole or similar free agent will sign here ever? That would fix the need to trade for SP.

How confident are you that we will get replaceable top 3 SP or better SP for Stroman and Giles this trade deadline? That will cancel the need to trade for SP.

How confident are you that Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Tellez, Smith, Groshans and other prospects/rookies we have pan out?

Why would management keep 3-4 bonafide infielders on their roster if they don't have the pitching?

How confident are you that we will be competing with the likes of Sanchez, Shoemaker, Borucki, Thornton, Zeuch, Paulino, Merryweather, Pannone? Two of those guys are have bad track records for health and the rest are middling...very similar to Drury and Teoscar. Borucki is the one guy that has had a good start so far and I wouldn't count on him in the AL east over the long haul. We need startung pitching for the next 2-3 years to run the rotation so that Pearson, Kloff and others can slowly join the rotation like the Rays do it.

I really hope we can get some SP soon and I would only want to trade from our core if there is no way to make free agency or veteran for prospect acquisitions work first.

Manoah, Pearson, Kloffenstein, etc all will be tremendous but I don't want to wait 2 years plus to get those guys up and running because it means we're just an offense team with no pitching until then. We need literally just one pitching prospect or young rookie SP for the next 2-3 years and then you can add pieces like Shoe and Borucki around that.

Gerry - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#376749) #
Jonathan Davis has come and gone. Justin Shafer is back up for bullpen support.
hypobole - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#376750) #
The Colby Rasmus deal was definitely innovative.
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#376751) #
I know this is a season of more downs than ups, but it would be sure painful if the Jays get swept at home by the freakin' Orioles.
christaylor - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#376752) #
"If FO uses free agency great...most of us agree they won't.

History disagrees -- Rogers will spend when the time is right, be it with taking on contract via trades or FA. With FA it is a two-way street (hello Raptors!) and youneverknow what players are available when this team, or any team, is trying to fill a need. Martin was paid and it really wasn't that long ago that JP was allowed to pay AJ and BJ because it made sense to Rogers Corp.

For this particular FO, but not Rogers, we have very little data on how they'll handle FA. They offered EE more than he got from CLE. The FO spent on Morales, which was a risk that never panned out but not one without an argument in favor of the signing.

If I had to bet, and if we're going to predict that in two years the Jays will be pitching-poor, then someone like Groshans + (other players) could be traded for a front-line starter would seem like a safer one than a high-value David Price-like contract. Thinking about trading Bichette is a fine idea, but right now there's too much uncertainty about what the next two years will bring.
Spifficus - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#376753) #

If he's ever traded it will be for a guy that the other team wasn't planning to trade as part of their rebuilding plan, obviously.

If that's what you pitched, that's a different conversation, but you immediately started by ruling out the pitchers in Bichette's prospect stratosphere. Why would we deal a potential inner-core player away for lesser, riskier talent?

It doesn't have to be Bichette, it can be anybody else with solid value. That means Vlad, Bichette, Jansen, Pearson, Kloffenstein, Groshans, Manoa, maybe Biggio...

See, this is where Kevin Smith's backslide this year hurts a bit - he would have been a good player to either be the redundancy or create the redundancy. Say he has a solid start to the year, he's probably looking like a mid top-100 prospect and might be able to pull something significant back. Right now, there just aren't the core-worthy redundancies in place, so the team may as well hang onto them, and spend some money for pitching. Maybe Smith bounces back, or Warmoth keeps getting himself back on track. That might change the equation again. But for the love of Jobu, Galvis is not part of the core - he's a useful starting SS and would have some value to a contender that needs a SS, but he's not A Member of the Jays Next Contender.

John, how confident are you that Gerrit Cole or similar free agent will sign here ever? That would fix the need to trade for SP.

Personally, I'm guessing the competition for Cole is going to be too hot, so I'd go for someone like Wheeler early. Added bonus if he gets dealt - no draft pick compensation. Seeing what the cost for broken-pirate-toy Archer would also be an option.

How confident are you that we will get replaceable top 3 SP or better SP for Stroman and Giles this trade deadline? That will cancel the need to trade for SP.

Stroman and Giles (assuming they can get/remain healthy, jeez!) should each be able to generate a good return. Whether that's starting pitching or a CF, or something else, remains to be seen.

How confident are you that Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Tellez, Smith, Groshans and other prospects/rookies we have pan out?

Vlad, Bo, Jansen? High confidence, and Groshans is high when you factor in the level. Biggio, medium (his at bats are pretty. Hopefully he can 2B well enough to either be the starter, or a roving DH). Tellez... ehhh. Smith? Ask again at the end of the year.

Why would management keep 3-4 bonafide infielders on their roster if they don't have the pitching?

At this point, they're not all bonafide. There are still an awful lot of these birds in the bush, even if you count Bichette in-hand.

How confident are you that we will be competing with the likes of Sanchez, Shoemaker, Borucki, Thornton, Zeuch, Paulino, Merryweather, Pannone?

None? Less-than-None?I think out of that group you should be able to get a #4 and #5. Maybe there's a #3 in there, too, depending on what Merryweather has, if Borucki's slider continues to show well, or Zeuch is a pitch-to-contact outlier due to good fastball command. They will definitely need to spend money and/or prospects for the top of the rotation... You just don't spend prospects while you're still trying to sort out your own position player core.

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#376754) #
I agree Chris. I'm not a hater of ownership they have spent tons so it's possible. I do however still think they will have a hard time getting the grade A free agents...like Gerrit Cole.

dalimon5 - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#376755) #
This just in: Jim Bowden going on the record at The Athletic in saying that Nationals ownership nixed an agreed deal that would have seen Bryce Harper traded for Bukauskas from the Astros.

So that should give us an idea...1/4 season of Bryce would have netted a top 2017 draft pick selection from HOU...so you have to think that that's the type of prospect we would get back for Stroman.
grjas - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#376756) #
Well Iíd certainly argue that the Donaldson, Vernon Wells, 2012, 2015 and others are innovative. If you donít like that word, pick another- I could care less- but the point is AA has been a dynamic deal maker, whereas Atkins deal making ability is unclear.

And no Iím not talking about swapping players Iím talking about sweetening the pot on a Stroman deal to get more value, if need be.
dalimon5 - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#376757) #
This just in: Jim Bowden going on the record at The Athletic in saying that Nationals ownership nixed an agreed deal that would have seen Bryce Harper traded for Bukauskas from the Astros.

So that should give us an idea...1/4 season of Bryce would have netted a top 2017 draft pick selection from HOU...so you have to think that that's the type of prospect we would get back for Stroman or Giles, hopefully more... if that's the case then this rebuild will be going swimmingly.
hypobole - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#376758) #
The FA signings of Happ and Estrada (albiet by LaCava) were the type I see the Jays making in the future. Not top end guys, more mid-tier. Probably not this offseason, but most likely after the 2020 season.
hypobole - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#376761) #
As dealmakers:

AA - "El Grande"

Atkins - "Poco"
hypobole - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#376764) #
It's Ex-Jay Woj pitching for the Orioles.
Cracka - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#376769) #
Matt Chapman of the A's will replace Yelich in the HR Derby tomorrow and will be slotted against Vlad Jr. A completely random comparison:

Vlad Jr., Ages 17-20: 52 home runs (as a professional).

Chapman, Ages 17-20: 9 home runs (1 as HS Jr, 1 as HS Sr, 2 as College Fr, 5 as College Sophomore).

scottt - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#376771) #
Donaldson is a case of trading prospects for a players who is about to get too expensive for its original team. I like to think other teams had to opportunity to beat the offer.

Vernon Wells is a weird trade for sure. I still don't understand how you flip 2 years of Napoli (worth 7.3 WAR) for one year of Francisco (1.1).

The Rasmus deal had AA send over Dotel, Scrabble, Jason Frasor and Zack Steward for a player who was regressing. It helps that the Cards had 2 other outfielders outproducing Rasmus at the time--apart from the regular corner guys. Rasmus was terrible, then excellent, then mediocre and was gone. At the time of the trade the Jays were 52-52 and would finish 81-81, the Cards were 6 games over 500 and would finish 18 games over.

It's interesting to note that AA kept Francisco who was the closer and a free agent.
I think it was to get a pick back, but it also preserved the illusions that the Jays were not sellers.

You could probably get Odor from the Rangers for Biagini, Hudson, Mayza and Shafer.
Maybe add Devon Travis.

Several teams should be fighting over Stroman, Giles and Hudson. No need to sweeten anything.

Now, the Twins, the Rangers and the Rays could be interested in improving their teams without spending either money or significant prospect capital. I figure the Rays could use Sogard. I'd take a 45 pitching prospect back. Would anyone take Sanchez? That's were you probably need a lot of sweetener.

James W - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#376777) #
Can I cast a vote to veto any trades for Odor?
Mike Green - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#376778) #
Odorless, please.
Parker - Sunday, July 07 2019 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#376779) #
Can I cast a vote to veto any trades for Odor?

Second this. Aside from the optics, I don't think a smart organization has much use for a guy who can knock 30 dingers and still struggle to crack replacement-level.

Please no Odor.
Magpie - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 02:13 AM EDT (#376780) #
Can I cast a vote to veto any trades for Odor?

I dunno. I know there are some who will say that Odor stinks - but consider: just how many .190 hitters owed some $30 million over the next three years are out there? Can't be that many.
James W - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#376782) #
Well, there's Chris Davis.
Parker - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#376784) #
Biagini for Odor and $30M. Immediately release Odor. Win-win.
Parker - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#376785) #
Or just release Biagini and save some money on the paperwork.
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#376786) #
This year Biagini has value to the Jays as a healthy relief arm.

I know that is not saying much.

We could have quite a few Non Tender candidates. D Travis who is low on the depth scale and injured a lot. Biagini also Non Tender. A healthy and experienced arm has value. The question is how much will he get in Arb.
scottt - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#376787) #
This can be a bit misleading. When the rotation is not able to provide innings, the pen is overtaxed and looks worse than it really is.
Nigel - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#376788) #
Biagini is probably our 5th or 6th best pitcher right now - and non tendering him isnít out of the question. The pitching staff has room for improvement:)
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#376789) #
Starters (min 10ip)

Stroman 2.0fwar, 2.2ra9war, 2.1avg, 3.7awar/32gs
Thornton 1.4fwar, 1.1ra9war, 1.3avg, 2.1awar/32gs
Shoemaker 0.6fwar, 1.3ra9war, 1.0avg, 6.1awar/32gs
-----
Buchholz 0.0fwar, -0.1ra9war, -0.1avg, -0.3awar/32gs
Sanchez 0.1fwar, -0.7ra9war, -0.3avg, -0.5awar/32gs
Richard -0.2fwar, -0.4ra92ar, -0.3avg, -1.1awar/32gs
Jackson -0.5fwar, -1.3ra9war, -0.9avg, -5.8awar/32gs


Relievers (min 5ip)

Giles 1.4fwar, 1.5ra9war, 1.5avg, 3.0awar/65ip
Hudson 0.2fwar, 1.0ra9war, 0.6avg, 1.0awar/65ip
Guerra 0.2fwar, 0.2ra9war, 0.2avg, 0.9awar/65ip
Pannone 0.1fwar, 0.3ra9war, 0.2avg, 0.4awar/65ip
Reid-Foley 0.1fwar, 0.2ra9war, 0.2avg, 1.8awar/65ip
Biagini 0.0fwar, 0.3ra9war, 0.2avg, 0.2awar/65ip
Gaviglio 0.0fwar, 0.3ra9war, 0.2avg, 0.2awar/65ip
Phelps 0.1fwar, 0.1ra9war, 0.1avg, 0.8awar/65ip
Mayza 0.2fwar, 0.0ra9war, 0.1avg, 0.2awar/65ip
Waguespack 0.2fwar, -0.1ra9war, 0.1avg, 0.4awar/65ip
Shafer -0.1fwar, 0.2ra9war, 0.1avg, 0.4awar/65ip
Romano 0.0fwar, 0.0ra9war, 0.0avg, 0.0awar/65ip
------
Kingham -0.3fwar, 0.0ra9war, -0.2avg, -0.7awar/65ip
Law 0.0fwar, -0.5ra9war, -0.3avg, -0.7awar/65ip
Tepera -0.4fwar, -0.2ra9war, -0.3avg, -0.7aware/65ip
Luciano -0.3fwar, -0.3ra9war, -0.3avg, -1.8awar/65ip
Jackson -0.4fwar, -0.4ra9war, -0.4avg, -4.6awar/65ip

Mike Green - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#376790) #
It's overdone. The least of the club's pitching issues is whether their 5th best reliever (Giles, Hudson, Phelps, Gaviglio, Biagini) has any significant value. They need a couple of pitchers who can give them good or better pitching in bulk, or they to use tandems differently. Sanchez, Reid-Foley, Pannone and Richard are all tandem candidates.
hypobole - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#376791) #
After the deadline, Biagini might be our 3rd best pitcher.
greenfrog - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#376792) #
The Jays can easily acquire another bulk innings pitcher or two if need be.
Chuck - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#376793) #
Sanchez, Reid-Foley, Pannone and Richard are all tandem candidates.

You don't see Richard as toast?

Mike Green - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#376794) #
Nope. If you put him behind Sanchez in a tandem, he'll probably give you 2 decent innings every 5 days and you can use him once in the middle for an inning.

Nigel - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#376795) #
I donít see anything as innovative as tandem starters being tried by Montoyo. He appears firmly entrenched in the old school.
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#376796) #
Sept may have a 20 man pitching staff. Until then the 13 man staff will be overtaxed.

I know that there will be 1 or 2 pleasant surprises before Sept.
hypobole - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#376797) #
Does any team use tandem starters? I'm pretty sure the Rockies gave it a try a few years back and then gave up on it.

Montoyo is old school, but seems willing to adapt.He said early on he wasn't into the opener thing, but since then he's used it a number of times.
Mike Green - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#376798) #
No one uses tandem starters at the major league level.  Teams, including the Blue Jays, have used them in the minor leagues. 

I agree that the team is much more likely to continue searching for starters, and isn't going to worry terribly about how bad the pitching is the remainder of 2019.  To be clear, I'm not saying at all that I agree with what I think they are likely to do.
Kelekin - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#376799) #
The opener thing is interesting to me because it makes no discernible difference to a game.

I do sometimes wonder if just setting up a bunch of pitchers to go once through an order could be much more useful than 2-3 batters, or 2-3 times through.
hypobole - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#376800) #
Yeah, the Jays have used tandems in Lansing even recently. Don't remember the Jays using it beyond A ball though.
pooks137 - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#376801) #

The opener thing is interesting to me because it makes no discernible difference to a game

David Phelps had an insightful interview with Arash Madani pregame one day last week on Sportsnet after Phelps' first time as opener after lots of experience starting and relieving.

Phelps made some points I hadn't considered such as the differences between starting/relieving and opening, such as the ability to make a pitch-by-pitch plan to attack the first 3-4 hitters and the ability to practice the sequence over-and-over beforehand in the pregame. A luxury not as easily accomplished with any other role.

They also joked about not having to face any pinchhitters as an opener vs a reliever, which is something else I hadn't considered

Kelekin - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#376802) #
That's definitely interesting, but I wonder why the same couldn't be accomplished with a 'starter' too?
Mike Green - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#376803) #
Because the starter's job is to last more than 3-4 batters. 

When facing an opener, why wouldn't a manager delay announcing a starting lineup until the last possible moment?
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#376804) #
At the end of the year we may be able to figure out who the bottom 3 in the lineup are. I think Maile. Maybe a weak hitter like Drury if he finishes the year as Jay's property. No guarantee that either would be back next year.

If the top 6 are about the same or close then the left/right hitting would be 1 influence in the batting order.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#376805) #
That poor scoreboard.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#376806) #
What a monster this kid is.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#376807) #
Sets the record.

Amazing.
Spifficus - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#376808) #
It's such an interesting contrast between The Jrs. Vlad was a primal force, whereas Acuna was fluid elegance. That would/could/should make one hell of a showdown.
Kelekin - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#376809) #
Absolutely loved watching Acuna.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#376810) #
Monstrous.
Spifficus - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#376811) #
This is absolutely amazing, and yet I just realized the thing that puts it over the top - No Chris Berman.
grjas - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#376812) #
Good lord what a show by Vladdy
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#376813) #
Joc an fuego. Uh oh.
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#376814) #
WOW!!!
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#376815) #
Craziness.

Can joc tie him again?
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#376816) #
Unreal.
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#376817) #
YES!!!
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#376818) #
That was awesome.
bpoz - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#376819) #
Vlad!!!
Kelekin - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#376820) #
And here I was hoping they'd go 18 innings.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#376821) #
Bah.

Vladdy was robbed.
Spifficus - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#376822) #
Robbed? Nope. Worn out in the second round just to make it.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#376823) #
Robbed.

This was vladdy's derby. He deserved the $1m.
grjas - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#376824) #
Too bad. He was just worn out.

Some awfully good young talent in the game.
Spifficus - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#376825) #
We saw something crazy-awesome. Why not just bask in the amazement of that? Did Alonzo kick your dog or something?
christaylor - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#376826) #
Fun. The 4th most impressive hitter wins Batting Practice. I hope Vladdy didn't wear himself out.
SK in NJ - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#376827) #
I honestly wouldn't care who won or lost this derby if it wasn't for the $1 million prize. Vlad hitting 34 more home runs and losing is ridiculous. Wish he could have gotten the money. But the rules are the rules until they modify them. Either way, great show.
uglyone - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#376828) #
He was robbed spifficuz. That as the best HR derby performance ever and the guy that beat him barely did Anything.

Spifficus - Monday, July 08 2019 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#376829) #
If you mean robbed in the way that you mash a ball but someone makes a great catch, fine, I can see that. But otherwise, Vlad won 2 discrete events and lost a third because he was exhausted. Which is more than understandable (and made for some epic viewing).
John Northey - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 12:08 AM EDT (#376830) #
The nice thing is this is just the first of at least 7 home run derby's we will probably see Vlad at as a Blue Jay. What fun!
uglyone - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 12:19 AM EDT (#376831) #
Ah be a fan. Our boy wuz robbed.
scottt - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 05:59 AM EDT (#376832) #
Surprised there was no Derby thread.

Vladdy said it himself, don't underestimate Alonso.
They were the 2 most likely to win it and the odds on Alonso were actually higher.

Still, it was a huge showcase for Vlad.
After this, a lot of guys who are not really home run hitters won't bother.
I think we might see more guys liike Tellez in the future, guys with power who are not stars.
Not Tellez specifically, since other Blue Jays will overshadow him.
I could see Gurriel leading the team in HR next year, does he get the call instead of Vlad?
They won't take 2 Blue Jays.

Alonso went second and did what he had to do to win each of his round.
Also, consider that Alonso's pitcher was more erratic.
He might steal a page from Vlad and bring a more stead hand next time.
Alonso is also a rookie and he signed for 555K on 2016.
Good for him. Mets sure needs a star.

No Blue Jays has ever won the Derby.

Thomas - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 07:30 AM EDT (#376834) #
There's no doubt that Vlad vs. Joc will one of the enduring highlights of the Home Run Derby going forward.

Normally, I wouldn't care who won the derby, since Vlad had provided the most memorable moment (how many people remember that Justin Morneau won the year that Josh Hamilton went off?). However, given the prize money involved, and the fact that Vlad has already had service time manipulated, I wish he had won, as, by coming second, he lost more than he will earn this year in salary (even if he won something by coming in second).
scottt - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 07:50 AM EDT (#376835) #
I wish he had won too.

I would be seriously down on the front office had they wasted a year of Guerrero by calling him up early.

Yes, they could extend him, but nobody knows what Guerrero will turn into.
Will he hit .260? .300? .350?
How many homeruns will he hit? 30? 50? 70?

Vlad was spectacular, but so was Acuna, hitting dingers all over the field.
Pederson matched him round after round.
Pederson is hitting .236 with 20 HR and he's just a 2~3 WAR guy.

grjas - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#376837) #
Pederson vs Vladdy IMHO was the most exciting Blue Jay event since their playoff run. Pity it wasn't round 3...but this year, I'll take excitement anywhere I can find it.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#376838) #
In the particular case of VGJ, I'm not so worried about whether he wins the $1 million or not.  He did get that bonus, and he does have family money.  And the odds are still excellent that he will end up making many times that amount each year for many years. 

I confess to not being a fan of the Home Run Derby.  Entertainment is fine, but this kind doesn't engage me.  Actually, I'd find a pitcher equivalent more engaging- a baseball size bullseye (or slightly smaller) target in each of the four corners of the strike zone has to be hit.  Winner is the one who hits the most (with tie-breaker being velocity). 
jerjapan - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#376841) #
If you didn't like that HR derby, than you likely never will.  I don't care too much about it myself unless we have a horse in the race, but man, Vladdy put on a heck of a show.  And who knew John Schneider was such a tank?
Liam Hendricks is an all-star.  If I were a AAAA pitcher, I'd be out there experimenting with everything to see if I could catch lightning in a bottle. 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/liam-hendriks-al-all-star/
grjas - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#376843) #
ďActually, I'd find a pitcher equivalent more engaging- a baseball size bullseye (or slightly smaller) target in each of the four corners of the strike zone has to be hit.Ē

Actually an intriguing idea. Sounds like the Babe Ruth Story where he supposedly throws a ball through a ball-sized hole in the window when heís discovered...a bit of Hollywood hype I suspect.

Of Course heíd probably hit a few in the HR derby..
Magpie - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#376852) #
by coming second, he lost more than he will earn this year in salary (even if he won something by coming in second).

He didn't get the million dollars but he did win $500K for coming in second, plus a $100K bonus for the longest dinger of the night. So that's more than his major league salary anyway.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#376857) #
Oh I didn't realize he got 500k for 2nd. Sweet.
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#376863) #
This game is fascinating to see who they're going to mic next. The moment when Bellinger answered Yelich was perfect.
dan gordon - Tuesday, July 09 2019 @ 11:42 PM EDT (#376866) #
Used the break to look at some stats for the unofficial first half of the season. There are so many good young hitters in baseball, it's hard to keep track of them all. When looking at the outfielders, I noticed that L. Gurriel had a better OPS than a lot of very good hitters at that position - Acuna, Betts, Springer, Soto, Ozuna, Rosario, Renfroe, D. Santana, B. Harper, Hoskins, F. Reyes. Among outfielders with at least 195 AB's, only 5 guys were better than Gurriel in OPS - Yelich, Bellinger, Trout, Gallo and Blackmon. Three of them get an asterisk due to hitting in extreme hitters' parks. Blackmon's splits are ridiculous - his home OPS this year is almost 900 points higher than his road OPS (yes, you read that right). Gallo is "only" about 300 points higher at home, while Yelich is just over 400 points higher. Trout and Bellinger play in tough home parks, and predictably, their road OPS numbers are well ahead of the other 4 guys. Yelich, Gallo and Gurriel are about the same, and Blackmon is way behind.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 01:20 AM EDT (#376867) #
Saw rounds 2 and final last night, just watched round 1 now and dang but Vlad is fun to watch isn't he? Wonder if this will be the last time someone is ahead of him for HR for the Jays in the first half.

Just seems wrong that Danny Jansen has the same number of homers as Vlad in fewer PA's right now. Drury has 8 as well, as does Hernandez. Guys ahead are Sogard (9), Tellez & Smoak (14), Grichuk & Glavis (15), with Gurriel Jr in the lead with 16. Hard to believe so many have as many or more than Vlad and Biggio is hitting them faster with 6 in just 153 PA.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 06:32 AM EDT (#376870) #
Vlad's hitting the ball on the ground too much, that's why.
scottt - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 07:14 AM EDT (#376873) #
And nobody's throwing BP fastballs to Vlad.


bpoz - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 08:10 AM EDT (#376874) #
The young position players are progressing quite well IMO. There may be a Hr outburst over the rest of the year as their experience increases.

The pitching disaster will continue I expect.

Defense stays the same I expect.
christaylor - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#376883) #
He's 20. His prefrontal cortex isn't even fully developed yet.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#376884) #
I think a lot of eyes will be opened up after Bo comes up to the majors. Vlad has long been a prospect who has wowed scouts with his bat to ball skills and power...tantalizing power. What made him elite was his discipline and that hasn't translated yet to MLB. He needs to show his discipline that he showed in his entire minor league career. It will only get worse if Bo and Biggio are showing it and he is not. 20 years old or not shouldn't matter. He's supposed to be different. He's supposed to be disciplined out of the gate, not like Devers or other prospects who take 1-2 years to start to blossom. That's the word from the scouts and everybody else around baseball.
ayjackson - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#376885) #
He was on a pretty good trend line until he was hit in the hand. That might have made him a bit tentative. Hopefully ripping 91 BP homers gets him back in the right mindset.
grjas - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#376888) #
Yeah hand injuries can take a while to get over for a hitter but the homer derby may help him mentally. On the other hand apparently his hands were pretty chafed at the end which may not be a good thing
scottt - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#376890) #
If anything, those 91 HRs should lead to a lot of walks, unless he chases, then he could be in for a rough spot.
ayjackson - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#376892) #
That said, Bo came straight back raking from his broken hand. No fear?
hypobole - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#376893) #
dalimon mentioned Vlad's supposed plate discipline, which unlike Biggio's, hasn't translated well to the major league level thus far.

Hand injuries may cause some things, decrease in power for one, but they don't cause players to chase low and away sliders.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#376894) #
Jim Bouton has died. Ball Four is a book very.much of its time, but also one for all time.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#376896) #
Robot ump has arrived. Was used in the Atlantic League AS game, with a human ump behind the plate

"The umpires have the ability to override the computer, which considers a pitch a strike when the ball bounces and then crosses the zone. TrackMan also does not evaluate check swings."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27164197/robot-umpires-debut-atlantic-league-asg
scottt - Wednesday, July 10 2019 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#376897) #
we're relatively confident that's it's going to spread through organized baseball
John Northey - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 12:37 AM EDT (#376901) #
Dang Bouton was 80. Sad to read he had vascular dementia, as any form of dementia sucks for the family - went through it with my grandmother, an uncle, and my wife's grandfather (different versions but the end result was the same - memories vanish or get so jumbled they cannot communicate properly).

Loved Ball Four - must read for all strong baseball fans imo. Nothing shocking by today's standards but that is in part thanks to his doing that book. I have the updated version which has a chapter added on about his comeback attempt and the fallout from his writing the book.
John Northey - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 01:08 AM EDT (#376902) #
Love the robot ball-strike thing. Past time to get it in place in the minors to start, then to the majors ASAP. Makes sense for umps to be able to override obvious mistakes (such as bounced balls being called strikes).

Checking brooksbaseball.net you can see Vlad has seen 10.78% of pitches away and low - by far the most common area he is pitched. Only 4.67% are down the middle of the plate. 33.81% strikes.

For comparison Biggio has no zone over 8% (outside middle) with only 3.56% down the pipe. 36.4% strikes.

Gurriel Jr. has 10.75% low and away (almost identical to Vlad) with 5.94% down the pipe and 37.55% strikes.

Eric Sogard to give us a vet to compare to kids, most common is middle low at 7.71%, 6.86% down the middle, and 39.09% strikes. Shown less respect due to his lifetime 80 OPS+ I suspect.

For a non-Jay star Mike Trout's most common is low and away at 8.78%, down the middle is 4.3%, strikes 38.62%.

Weird. Trout sees more strikes than 3 Jay kids. Trout also gets more down the pipe than Vlad, Biggio or Gurriel. Seems pretty dumb imo as I'd be more scared of tossing is down the middle to Trout than to anyone else in baseball given his history.
Chuck - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 06:59 AM EDT (#376903) #
Jim Bouton has died.

I remember reading Ball Four a few years after it came out. It sure seemed scandalous to a very young me.

Re-read it, and its sequels, several years ago. Still an interesting window into that era, but certainly seemed much tamer 40 odd years later.

Chuck - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 07:02 AM EDT (#376904) #
Oh, anyone remember the ill-fated Ball Four TV show (starring Bouton)? Didn't last too long. Subject matter that blue needed the cable treatment, if it was to find a home on the small screen at all.
AWeb - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#376910) #
Checking in on a pet peeve of the recent Jays team, team speed! The past few years the Jays have been some of the slowest teams in baseball, if not the very slowest. IT's shown in the defense and baserunning, which hasn't been full of errors as much as guys who are simply incapable of standing out in any way. https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard?year=2019&position=&team=&min=10 has all the data in pretty chart form.

DH: Tellez is on the slow side for a DH, but faster than Morales was at least.
Catcher: Jansen is one of the faster catchers, and MAile is above average.
1B: Smoak is the 2nd slowest, next to Pujols. He's approaching regular guy slow instead of pro athlete slow at this point.
2B: Biggio is in the upper half for speed, Sogard near the bottom.
SS: Galvis is slow by all of baseball standards, playing a fast-guy position.
3B: Guerrero is average speed for 3B, which is a little concerning given he's so young. Unlike almost anyone else on the list, he is young enough (and heavy enough) that he might actually significantly improve his footspeed in future years. Drury is slightly faster.
LF: Gurriel is above average for this position, seems like there's no reason he can't stick there. That plus his 1.000 OPS of course.
CF: Hernandez is the fastest guy on the team, in the upper half for CF - this is likely why the JAys are trying him there. Grichuk is below average for CF.
RF: Grichuk is aboout average, maybe slightly above, for RF. BRito was the fatest guy on the team, and among the 10 fastest in the league, but since he was bad at everything else...

So the verdict - the 2019 Jays are no longer one of the slowest teams in baseball history, and are probably around average for MLB. Another reason the team is a bit more fun to watch, even though they stink, this year. I assume Bichette is quite a bit faster than Galvis once he gets called up, and the Jays will be close to a fast team for the first time in a while. I can't recall the last Jays roster that might have been considered fast...maybe the WS teams?
Mike Green - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#376916) #
Guerrero is average speed for 3B, which is a little concerning given he's so young. Unlike almost anyone else on the list, he is young enough (and heavy enough) that he might actually significantly improve his footspeed in future years.

Sorry, AWeb, I'm slow (in my thinking).  VGJ is heavy so his speed might improve?  I would have thought the opposite.

Anyways, Galvis to third base and VGJ to first base (pending Groshans' arrival) seems like a P-K4 move.  Freddy will probably be an above average defensive third baseman and a decent enough hitter for the next year or two. 
bpoz - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#376919) #
When AA signed Vlad, an incredible move by the way, the org was quite sure IMO that he was kind of slow.

Atkins and Shapiro may have been unsure which position he was supposed to play. I don't know for sure. He developed into an incredible bat and a decent 3B.
hypobole - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#376920) #
Maybe VGJ is going to show up next spring training ITBSOHL?
bpoz - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#376922) #
I think Vlad will.
Chuck - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#376924) #
Vlad can take inspiration from Rafael Devers.
AWeb - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#376925) #
Vlad could get faster because he could lose some weight and also not hurt his legs in spring training, and he's young enough that it would help him. I'm not saying it's likely he'll get faster, but it does at least seem possible. Sort of like his defense, he's young enough to improve. Guerrero is by no means too slow to play 3B as he is now, but since you lose speed past your mid-20s most of the time, I hope he speeds up a bit before that. He's not going to turn into a burner, of course.

Contrast that with Galvis, who already appears lean and is the wrong age to get faster. Assuming the speed readings on him have captured him at full speed this year, he's just slow.
bpoz - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#376926) #
Vlad may buy into fitness. There are sprint drills that he can do to improve speed. Flexibility drills. Some of his weight should be easy to come off.
hypobole - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#376934) #
Jeff Todd at MLBTR with his take on Eric Sogard, including a well-earned shot at Buck and his ribbies.
hypobole - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#376935) #
link:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/eric-sogard-face-of-mlb-trade-deadline.html
Magpie - Thursday, July 11 2019 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#376954) #
Assuming the speed readings on him have captured him at full speed this year, he's just slow.

I read that, and then I stumbled on to this page, which may contain some of the readings you're referring to.  Sprint speed is hardly the be-all and end-all of baseball speed, but it never hurts to have it. Galvis does not appear to have it - the only treammates he can outsprint are Rowdy Tellez and Justin Smoak, and Smoak is one of the slowest men in the game.

Teoscar Hernandez is the fastest, if you don't count Socrates Brito (and I never do).
scottt - Friday, July 12 2019 @ 07:39 AM EDT (#376967) #
I'm annoyed when they talk about Drury like he's a prospect. He'll soon hit 3 year of service and is arbitration eligible.
I doesn't matter if you're a great teammate if you don't hit.


vw_fan17 - Saturday, July 13 2019 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#377029) #
Maybe VGJ is going to show up next spring training ITBSOHL?

There's one thing that I recall from being a Leafs fan: the first year Nazem Kadri showed up at training camp as a scrawny 19-20 year old (forget which), they laughed at him, and Phaneuf (?) said: "Hey kid - how about next year, you show up with an NHL body?". AFAICT, he took it to heart and worked on it. Wish we still had Bautista around to give VGJ a straight talk like that, or even a Cecil/Prince Fielder to warn him about the short career possibilities.. 
In some ways it's unfortunate that VGJ is a "J", and his dad was a star player. Pretty sure, like most people, he'll defend his son to the extreme. And mostly that's a good thing. But I'm sure no one's going to tell VGJ much of anything with his dad there to call him out on it. But, if he wants a long and illustrious career, he needs to get on it ASAP. To quote an 80s TV show: "Fame costs, and right here's where you start paying!"
cascando - Saturday, July 13 2019 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#377041) #
I'm annoyed when they talk about Drury like he's a prospect. He'll soon hit 3 year of service and is arbitration eligible. I doesn't matter if you're a great teammate if you don't hit.

I agree. Drury lost his rookie eligibility the same year as Osuna and Tepera. A year before Biagini. He looks to be much closer to the end of his career than the beginning. It would be one thing if he had been injured for most of the last few years (like Pompey), but he has just been terrible since he left Arizona.

And this is the guy they targeted when they had the best SP on the market last year at the trade deadline.

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