Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

No, really, we don't just publish threads for wins. But ... Mitch Moreland? Derek Holland? Cody Eppley? Really?

Rangers 7, Jays 6. (Discuss.)

P.S. Trivia time ... Texas has the second-best record in the AL right now. Without looking it up -- can you guess which team has the best?

There was a game last night | 52 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#233777) #
Well, two pitchers who had combined for a 22-32 career record coming into this season are 9-0....

I didn't see them coming.
Dave Rutt - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#233779) #
I know it's the Indians, but the two pitchers... can I even name two pitchers on Cleveland's staff? Don't think it's Fausto. Mitch Talbot and Justin Masterson?
AWeb - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#233780) #

I assume it's still Cleveland with the good record? Lots of hitting so far, and isn't a Cleveland sports rule that one team at a time has to be good enough to be disappointing? Browns in the 80's, Indians in the 90's, Cavs in the 00s...

Last night was a frustrating game to tune in and out of - left the bottom of the ninth with two outs and no one on (I think), came back and Encarnacion has a long AB with two guys on. Before that, I caught the Jays had an early lead, and every time I checked in after that, they were down 1 run, by a different score. 14 hits, and I don't think I managed to see a single one despite watching 9-10 ABs. So to me, it felt like the Jays never had a chance, oddly.

Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#233781) #
So how about Josh Tomlin, drafted in the 19th round in 2006, presumably because he doesn't make the radar guns scream. He does know how to pitch, a much rarer skill, and after going 51-24, 3.20 in four and a half minor league seasons, the Indians finally got around to giving him a look last July. He promptly went out and beat C.C. Sabathia in his ML debut.
92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#233782) #
Stuff is the only thing that matters. See : Reyes, JoJo.
Kelekin - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#233785) #
I like Mitch Moreland and Derek Holland, but that's just me.  Holland lit up the minors and is still only 24...I imagine he'll look like the #2 in the Texas' rotation by the end of the year with his stuff.

Thomas - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#233786) #
Canadian Rene Tosoni is making his major league debut today for the Twins against Tampa after having his contract purchased due to an injury to Delmon Young. He singled in his first at-bat against Jeremy Hellickson.
Alex Obal - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#233787) #
Holland's a mystery. Arlington is always a tough BABIP park, but Holland looks like he got shafted with the hittability gene (aka Doesn't Know How to PItch, a phrase I'm not crazy about since it suggests guys like Reyes with no command are idiots, but whatever.) It's not hard to picture him floundering as Texas' #5 starter/project until he hits free agency, learns a cutter and shockingly leads the Cardinals to the playoffs.
sam - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#233789) #
I think you need to pinch run there for Molina.
Kelekin - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#233790) #
There's no question last night was his worst start.  But from a saber standpoint, he is in the Top 50 in both FIP and xFIP thus far, even with those bad starts.  His BABIP is .357, and while I'm not a huge believer in the stat, it's still well above normal range (8th worst - although no one has been unluckier than Matt Garza).  Most of his peripherals have been sharp...and that's why I still believe he'll be good.

Mike Green - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#233791) #
I think you need to pinch run there for Molina.

I am Gamedaying this one at work, and there was an error on the screen but when it was clarified that McDonald had bunted and that Napoli went to second to get Molina, I wondered why you wouldn't do this.  I know that they want to give Arencibia the day off, but surely this is an occasion to relax the rule.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#233792) #
Well, many managers (Farrell's two predecessors here, certainly) don't like using a pinch runner for a runner on first. The problem is, a routine ground ball and you've just burned half your bench. So they like to wait until he makes it to second base before sending in a pinch runner. I think that's sensible and reasonable, and I wouldn't give Farrell any grief on that account. But Jose Molina is so slow, that if you're fully committed to bunting, you pretty well have to pinch run - for Molina.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#233793) #
This is frightening...
braden - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#233794) #
All I can see is a HBP for Bautista. Please fill us in.
92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#233795) #
Sacrificing the batter to potentially move Molina to 2nd, which isn't even scoring position for him, is a horrendous move.
Mike Green - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#233796) #
Yes, please do.  The pitch appeared to be near Bautista's head, according to Gameday.
92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#233797) #
Took a fastball to the head area on his wrist (mostly because of where he starts his hands in the load position). Knowing how wrist injuries can linger and sap your power, let's just hope nothing broke.
braden - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#233798) #

Oh, geez.

I assume, per Gameday, he stayed in?

92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#233800) #
Yes. He was obviously fine to run, and it appeared the wrist took the brunt of it and it missed his head. We'll see what happens as/if it bruises.
sam - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#233801) #
Ya just to update. Bautista took a fastball on the inside part of his right wrist. The ball was going to hit him in the head. He ducked, but his hands weren't as quick. He stayed down for a second motionless, then moved. The trainer and Farrell came out and Bautista slowly got up and it seemed like Bautista passed all the strength tests on the field and he jogged to first. He wasn't shaking his wrist or anything at first, just looking at it in the way people do when expecting a bruise or the seems of the baseball. He looks OK.
sam - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#233802) #
Frustrating that Lind can't come through there in light of the Bautista incident.
sam - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#233803) #
He took it on the taped part of his right wrist. I wonder if the taping might have a positive impact in keeping the swelling down.
Kelekin - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#233804) #
It's unfortunate Lind didn't come through there, would be tough to be hard on him though.  10 pitches makes for a good at-bat, and he has a homer.

What are people's thoughts on Rzep seemingly being used as the "lefty-specialist" type?

scottt - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#233805) #
It's a tough bullpen to manage. Frasor, Camp and Janssen are very good, but it seems best to keep them out of high pressure situation. Dotel should probably never face a lefty with the game on the line. Rauch is getting the job done, but he doesn't make the 9th a sure thing. Is Francisco the setup guy now or is he just starting a long audition? Villanueva seems to be the stretch option.

I only see one lefty in the pen.

Davis should be ready now. Who goes down? McCoy or a reliever?

Jeremy - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#233806) #
Snider's been optioned to Vegas per the Jays Facebook feed.
MrPurple - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#233807) #
Snider and Woodward according to Jays Facebook
China fan - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#233808) #
It seems to be confirmed:  Snider and Woodward demoted.  No announcement yet on the promotions, but Davis is presumably one of them.  The other could be Podsednik or Wise, or -- dare we hope -- Thames or Lawrie?
AWeb - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#233810) #
Well, I think sending Snider down is a good thing right now. Sure, he has killed the minors before, but maybe he needs to start doing so again to kick start his year, because he hasn't been showing many signs of life at the plate. Sometimes I think it is better for player development to succeed (assuming he does) at a lower level than continue to make outs in the majors. He's still young, and has a few years before he's labelled a bust...also, if you want trade bait, Snider the terrible MLB player is worth less than Snider the great AAA player. Again, this is assuming Snider figures out how to hit again in AAA...
BlueJayWay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#233811) #
Not a fan of the Snider demotion, at all.  Around and around we go on the roster moves.
damos - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#233812) #
Shi Davidi just tweeted that he's hearing Davis & Cooper as call-ups.


Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#233813) #
On this date one year ago, Snider was hitting .147, and everyone looked at me funny when I said he can't be allowed to continue like that. He was allowed to continue, and he immediately got hot. Perhaps the new regime is not quite as patient with struggling hitters as the old regime, which (like most things) cuts both ways.

Shi Davidi says he hears it's Davis and Cooper coming up, which suggests the Juan Rivera leftfielder experience is About To Begin.
China fan - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#233814) #

Well, something had to be done about Snider -- would you rather wait another month and see if he crawls up to the Mendoza line?  We spent all of 2010 waiting for Aaron Hill to return to form.  It didn't happen.  It doesn't just automatically happen.  Maybe it's true that Snider is having trouble with curveballs, as Gregg Zaun says.  If it's true, it's much better for him to work on the problem in Las Vegas, rather than the majors.

As for Cooper -- and I trust Shi Davidi's sources on this one -- this is fantastic news.  He's looked very good for the past 10 months, and he didn't seem out-of-place with the Jays in the spring games.  If the Jays are willing to deviate from "the plan" on Snider, they can deviate from the plan for Vegas prospects too.

Hodgie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#233815) #
Question to throw out to the masses - at what point does a sample size become significant enough to establish a new talent level for a relief pitcher? I ask as I keep seeing "Dotel should never face a left handed batter..." or some similar variation and wondered about his history since the implication is also that Farrell is ignoring the splits.

Over the last two seasons Dotel's numbers against LHB are horrific, reflected in an OPS against of 1.000 and .993 in 2009 and 2010 respectively. These marks were compiled over 200 PA. His career OPS split against LHB is .759 over 1571 PA and prior to 2009 was roughly .715. Does this latest sample of performance, roughly 13% of his career total, indicate he has completely lost the ability to get LHB out? If it does, any ideas on what factors might lead to such a drastic change in fortune against hitters of one orientation without anything even remotely similar reflected in his performance against batters of the other orientation?

85bluejay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#233816) #
I think the Snider demotion is a good thing- he's completely at sea right now with no confidence - I think a few weeks and he will be back and be okay - If true, the Cooper promotion is Terrific and deserved - a LH bat and OBP guy is what the Jays need - Kudos to the FO
92-93 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#233817) #

If it's true, it's much better for him to work on the problem in Las Vegas, rather than the majors.

Why? The Blue Jays coaches didn't agree with you, until apparently today.

During spring training and earlier this month, Jays manager John Farrell said repeatedly that the Jays were  “committed” to Snider as an everyday player, intimating that they would let him work through his struggles at the plate without threat of exile to the minors. (John Lott)

BlueJayWay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#233818) #
What's the point of sending Snider to Vegas?  He'll go down there, mash like he always does, and then what?
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#233819) #
I dunno. I'm not wild about what I'm seeing. I don't like the impatience. I really don't like the lack of commitment to your own judgement. I don't like the way they use player options.

I remember going to social events where you would buy tickets for your drinks. Sometimes, towards the end of the evening, you know you've had enough to drink - but you've still got a few tickets left. So you use them anyway. That seldom ended well, and that's how these guys are dealing with player options.

The manager is the new boy, but most of what's bothering me are what we tend to think of as GM level decisions. Although in practise, the lines are not drawn all that sharply in most organizations.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:53 PM EDT (#233820) #
Instead of trying to actually solve a problem, they're using the option year as a cheap fix. And trusting their minor league staff to do it for them. And sure, he'll go to Vegas and destroy the PCL. We know he can do that. But we also know - something which was by no means clear last April - that he can solve his problems at the major league level.

And then they brought up the wrong guy. I'm keen to see Cooper, but Thames makes a lot more sense in this situation.
85bluejay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#233821) #
One of the things we don't know is what's happening in the clubhouse - does the team feel that Snider (like Cecil) is too depressed by his struggles and  the minors is better suited for him to regain his confidence?
China fan - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#233822) #

It's hardly surprising (or significant) that Farrell would have said that the Jays were "committed" to Snider.  They're committed to anyone on the roster, until one day they change their mind, and then suddenly they are not committed.  Saying that they are "committed" to someone is pure rhetoric, and a hallowed baseball euphemism.  What do you expect Farrell to say?  Is he going to say "We're worried about him, but we're keeping him on the roster for the time being"? 

The Jays were "committed" to Cecil in the starting rotation, until he stank up the joint and obviously needed help.  Then they weren't committed any more.

I suppose the critics will say, "where's the plan?"  But do you prefer a GM who sticks rigidly and inflexibly to his early assessments of each player and refuses to respond to the changing evidence on the field? 

Snider is a 23-year-old who is struggling in the majors.  It's not at all surprising that a struggling 23-year-old might be sent to the minors.

In fact, to be honest, Snider was struggling for a large proportion of 2010 as well -- until a hot streak in September.  I saw a quote recently from Anthopolous or Farrell saying that September performances should be put in the same category as spring performances:  not very significant.  If we accept their advice and discard the September performance, Snider was having issues last year as well.  There may be mechanical issues that he needs to work on, and Las Vegas is the place for that.

A lot of fans predicted that 2011 will be a "breakthrough" season for Snider.  I suspect that prediction will cloud a lot of people's judgements of the decision to demote him.

 

85bluejay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#233823) #
IMO, cooper makes more sense because he has much better plate discipline and is probably a close to finished product - remember, most expected he would be here in 2010 because coming out of college he had excellent bat tool, much like brett Wallace.
Magpie - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#233824) #
at what point does a sample size become significant

Nobody has a clue. Nobody has the faintest idea. I've asked.

I know two things. I always hear people say "meaningless, small sample size." But I always see people taking the original sample and making it smaller. You take a hitter's record, and you immediately get rid of the at bats in his home stadium. Or the at bats against LH pitching. And so on and so forth.

Nobody knows anything.
Gerry - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#233825) #

Random thoughts:

I agree that this is strange.  This does look like a learning experience for John Farrell, his opinions are getting recast on a  regular basis, he should be running in Monday's election. 

The last time Travis went down on one of these demotions it took him a while to get his head around it, hopefully this time will be different.  It is a big boys game and these are big boy moves. 

It's almost as if the Jays went into Texas and said wow, we just won 3 out of 4 against a good team, we are back in this, lets get the guys who are in form here.

Finally, having an extra lefty in Yankee Stadium is not a bad thing.

85bluejay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#233826) #

China fan,

                  Well said - completely agree

stevieboy22 - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:04 PM EDT (#233828) #
I was talking to coworkers this morning, and made the comment "Snider is going to put the Jays in a tough spot if he doesn't start hitting. He is a mega prospect, mostly unproven, but someone who most expect to be a huge bat. That being said, how long can you keep rolling a guy out there if he is hitting 170?"

My coworkers are generally the hockey type fans (irrational and like to support arguments with heart and hustle), who all thought Rivera was the worst player in baseball history a week ago and generally don't have patience. That being said, they all seemed to think you ride him out, and that seems to be the sentiment amongst many of the more irrational message boards I have skimmed through. I think what this boils down to, is the Jays coaching staff sees something that needs fixing and they aren't confident it will happen in the next week or two.

Things might be a little more scary in regards to Sniders future than we realize, because as many have said, he has nothing left to prove in AAA.

That being said, I must say I am excited about seeing Cooper, to spite a year ago coming on here and saying he is clearly the worst draft pick in the last 10 years... hahah

dan gordon - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#233829) #

That was a nice call on the bunt by Patterson in the 9th - perfect situation for it.  Good decision to leave Francisco is as well.  I was hoping they would let him have a shot at finishing.  He pitched really well.  I think he's the closer soon if not right now.

Great to see Morrow pitching so well.  I must get him off the bench on my roto team.

What's going on with Bautista's baserunning?  He very nearly got picked off again today, and then there was that bizarre move in the 9th where he started to sprint towards 3rd when the base was already occupied.  Zaun speculated that he thought the runner was the 3rd base coach.  Anyway, he got away with it.  Good to see he wasn't seriously hurt by that pitch at his head.  That could have been a disaster.

I see the Snider and Cooper moves are up on Rotoworld.  Surprising to see them send Snider down, but I think it might be a good idea.  As soon as he starts to get it gear, I'm sure we'll see him back up.  I don't think it's a big deal.  The promotion of Cooper is interesting.  I presume he's going to play at least semi-regularly, so that means he and Lind occupy the 1B and DH spots for the most part.  That leaves EE at 3B and Rivera in LF.  Sacrificing some defense to get some more offense.

greenfrog - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#233830) #
I'm OK with this move. Snider has looked lost at the plate. He hasn't been driving the ball - even some of his hits have been muscled ground balls out of the infield. Like Hill, he seems to put a ton of pressure on himself to excel (even if he strenuously maintains a calm exterior). He may need a break to get himself together.

Also, for the time being, the Jays are in contention. The Yankees have rotation issues, and the Red Sox are still three games under .500. Who knows, the Rays may be the team to beat. In any case, the Jays now have a good front three in the rotation, a tolerable #4 in Litsch, and a healthy bullpen. Let's see what Cooper can do as a DH against RHP.

Looking ahead, I think two keys to the Jays staying with the AL East leaders will be (1) Aaron Hill becoming a decent hitter again, and (2) finding a decent starter to complete the rotation (Stewart? Cecil? Mills?).
Alex Obal - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#233831) #
It's almost as if the Jays went into Texas and said wow, we just won 3 out of 4 against a good team, we are back in this, lets get the guys who are in form here.

Could be. In my eyes, the win-now move is calling up Thames, who's hitting well too and who enables you keep Rivera out of the field. Cooper's the 'hey, this guy's hot and might never have another chance' move.

blarry - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#233832) #
I agree with the Snider move, especially with a trip to Yankee Stadium happening. AA is determined to compete to the best of his ability and replacing a cold bat with a warm one is a good way to start. If Cooper shows he belongs well then the Jays have 1 more MLB first baseman than they need in the longer view which is a good thing when the objective is to turn a bunch of good pieces into a few great ones.
85bluejay - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#233834) #
Talking about the rotation, a move I won't mind seeing is swapping Villanueva with Reyes - I know Villaneuva has had poor results starting in the the past - but, i have been impressed by his multiple innings work this year - make Reyes the long guy & 2nd lefty.
TamRa - Thursday, April 28 2011 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#233863) #
I'm curious, will they take the easy way at Vegas and have one of Thames or Snider DHing every night while Sheely plays 1b? or will they be a bit bold and let Loewen play 1B some?



uglyone - Friday, April 29 2011 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#233930) #
"Talking about the rotation, a move I won't mind seeing is swapping Villanueva with Reyes - I know Villaneuva has had poor results starting in the the past - but, i have been impressed by his multiple innings work this year - make Reyes the long guy & 2nd lefty."

why swap? we already have too many relievers.

just dump Reyes and stick Villy in there. or Rzep. or Cecil. or Stewart. or Mills.
There was a game last night | 52 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.