Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

At the top of the farm, the Las Vegas 51s showed they are getting more comfortable with their new roster members and took out the most successful team in the PCL on Wednesday night.  They stayed in the chase, improving their standing in the battle for a playoff spot in their division.



Las Vegas 3  Omaha 2

The 51s took the oopf out of Omaha with a walk off single by Danny Perales (1-4, RBI), just one of the 10 hits produced by Las Vegas lumber.  Starter Brett Cecil pitched an impressive 8 innings giving up a pair of runs on just 4 hits while striking out 8.  He had no decision.  That went to Chad Beck (2-0) who came on for an inningís work for the win and allowed just hit.  Chris Woodward booted one for his 9th error of the season.

Woodward redeemed himself, however, going 1-3 with a double and the winning run resulting from Peralesí walk off single.  The real hitter on the evening was Ricardo Nanita (3-4, HR, 2RBIs) who punched his 7th homer, a solo blast in the 2nd inning.  The 51s tied the game in the 8th with a Kevin Howard (2-3,2B) infield single and a sac bunt by Jonathan Diaz (1-3) which moved Howard to 2nd.  After a Jack Cust (0-3) walk, Nanita singled in the run to tie the contest.  Brian Bocock (2-3) turned a two hit game with a pair of singles.

 

New Hampshire 2  Binghampton 6

The Fisher Cats threw no less than five pitchers at Binghamton, but neither the shut out pitching of the relievers, nor the New Hampshire bats could secure a win for starter Deck McGuire (8-6) so he took the loss.

New Hampshireís paltry scoring happened in the 4th and the 7th when the score a single run in each frame.  In the 4th,  Jake Marisnick (1-5) singled and subsequently stole third base and was plated by a sac fly from Brian Van Kirk (1-3, RBI).  In the 7th, Ryan Schimpf (3-4) homered, a solo blast to right field.  Brad Glenn (2-4) also turned in a multi-hit game with a pair of singles.

Dunedin 2  Brevard County 1

Dunedin travel to the East coast of Florida to squeeze out a close one with Brevard on a walk off single by Kevin Pillar (1-4).  Starter Casey Lawrence went 7 IP but came up without a decision.  He gave up 7 his and a homer, but only one run and struck out 6.  Alan Farina (1-2) took his first win in his comeback campaign and rehab.

In the third, some small ball produced a score with a Marcus Knecht (1-3) single followed by and error and an advance on a fly ball.  Kenny Wilson (0-3,RBI) plated Knecht on an RBI ground out.  In the 9th, Pillarís walk off single was preceded by a Wilson walk and a Wilson steal.

 

Lansing 1  Fort Wayne 9

The Luggies took is tough and were outhit 16-9 by Fort Wayne.  A Quad of errors by K.C. Hobson (16), Shane Opitz (10), Andy Fermin (5), and Chris Hawkins (2) didnít help either.  Aaron Sanchez took his third loss going 3.0 IP allowing just a run on 3 hits.  His relievers Blake McFarland and Aleson Escalante allowed a combined 8 runs on 13 hits and escaped any decision.

Lansing lone run came in the 5th inning after a Gustavo Pierre (2-3) double and a single by Shane Opitz (1-3).  Pierre scored after an errant pickoff throw.  K.C. Hobson (1-4, 2B) added a double.

 

Vancouver 2  Yakima 3

Vancouver outhit Yakima, but unfortunately they didnít outscore them.  Starter Taylor Cole didnít get the decision, but he turned in a respectable 5IP with 5 hits and 5 strikeouts.  Bobby Brsnahan (2-2) took the loss allowing only a single hit which happened to be a Home Run.

Vancouver scored in the 5th and the 9th.  In the 5th Ian Parmley (2-5, 2B) doubled and Derrick Chung (2-4, 2B, RBI) answered with a Double.  In the 9th, Matt Newman (2-4, 3B) tripled and was brought home by a ground out from Tucker Frawley (0-3, RBI).

 

Bluefield  v  Elizabethton  (Postponed)

 

GCL Blue Jays 1 Pirates 2

The GCL Blue Jays were just about equal with the GCL Pirates in everything but the score.  Each team   managed 5 hits and each had an error.  But, the Pirates put up a score in the 9th and took the contest.  Starter Yeyfry Del Rosario went 4.0 IP allowed one run on 2 hits and struck out 2.  Losing pitcher Fransisco Gracesqui (3-2) gave up the winning run, allowing just a pair of hits.

The Blue Jays only score came in the 5th inning from a Homer by D.J. Davis, his fourth of the year.

 

Three Stars

Third Star            D.J. Davis (1-4, HR, RBI)

Second Star        Brett Cecil (8IP, 4H, 2R, 8Ks)

First Star              Ricardo Nanita (3-4) HR, 2RBIs

Walk offs in Las Vegas and Dunedin with a sobering 3-2 overall for the Farm on Wednesday Night | 55 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Noah - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#262284) #
Seeing reports on twitter that Kevin Comer is the PTBNL in the Astros deal. If so that would be a real shame, and would, in mind, further my questioning of the logic behind that move. Especially should Lyon walk away for nothing at the end of the year and Happ continue to show little in regards to value.

BlueJayWay - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#262285) #
Comer as the PTBNL would be horrible.  I thought legit prospects were never named later?
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#262287) #

Comer, Musgrove, Perez, Wojo for Jay Happ??????  Snider for Lincoln.

Wow.  Throwing away upside for back of the rotation starters and relievers.

Noah - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#262288) #
Confirmed by Keith Law now:
keithlaw ‏@keithlaw
Confirmed that RHP Kevin Comer is the PTBNL going from Toronto to Houston. 57th overall pick 2011, velo down to upper 80s this year.
Original Ryan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#262289) #
Drafted players can't be traded until they've been signed for a year, and it's now officially been a year since Comer signed.

I'm thoroughly disgusted right now. I was pretty angry after Farrell brought in Lincoln last night instead of one of his better relievers, but now I've reached my lowest point since the Anthopoulos era began. The Astros trade now reeks of sheer panic.

BlueJayWay - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#262290) #
Yeah really.  Ouch.  Either it was a huge overpay on our part, or the Jays realized Comer wasn't all that, in which case it was a bad draft pick and overslot signing.
Maldoff - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#262291) #

From a pedigree perspective, it seems like a bad move. However, I'm seeing a guy who is now throwing in the upper 80s without another plus weapon as a strikeout pitch - that screams someone who will not be a major league starter to me.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#262292) #
Comer is just a ticket.  But, four genuine tickets is quite a bit to pay for Happ, as cumulatively there is a pretty good chance that one will emerge as a valuable contributor (my money is on Perez or Wojciechoswki).  I understand why the deal had to be done, but it really illustrates the problem with the 2011-12 offseason omissions.

Snider for Lincoln was a whole matter altogether.  I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. 

ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#262293) #
Musgrove and Comer may both be damaged goods, but even if we sent one healthy, it's a lot to pay for a back of the rotation starter.  At least for the Jays.  The Jays should not be parting with higher upside prospects for these types of players.  The back of the rotation should be easier to fill.  These higher upside guys should be waited on, or sent as part of a package for elite players.  I don't understand.
Original Ryan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#262294) #
Houston should've thrown in a box of lemon Jello for old times' sake.
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#262295) #

Ryan Schimpf has had an interesting pro career, flying very low under the radar.  He has proved competent at each level of his development and that isn't changing in AA.

In SS:  153PA, .795 OPS, 15.7% Krate, 9.8% BBrate
In Low A:  395PA, .754 OPS, 24.3% Krate, 9.9% BBrate
In Hi A:  711PA, .800 OPS, 23.6% KRate, 10.4% BBrate
In AA:  55PA, 1.103 OPS, 20.0% Krate, 18.1% BBrate

Between Goins and Schimpf we might have at least a bench bat if not a passable starter for a few years of their prime.

China fan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#262296) #
"...after Farrell brought in Lincoln last night instead of one of his better relievers...."

Lincoln is one of the better relievers on the Jays. Even good relievers have bad days. If we're going to judge Lincoln on the basis of one or two appearances, why not choose the 3.1 innings of one-hit ball that he threw against Oakland in extra innings?

As for the hand-wringing about prospects being traded away: a lot of people are over-valuing the Jays prospects. You can't hang onto prospects forever. At some point you have to convert them into major-league players. Everything AA has said and done recently is suggesting that he's preparing for a 2013 run at contention. And it's about time, after years of rebuilding and retooling. I don't want to spend several more years waiting for all of our 20-year-old prospects to possibly develop. The time is now, and major-league pitching (rotation and bullpen) were the obvious priority this year. I don't see anything wrong with AA's decision to trade prospects for MLB-ready pitchers.
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#262297) #

Perhaps to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Calgary Olympics, the Jays could have the "Battle of the Ryans" for the second base position next year. (Goins & Schimpf)

They seem about as appealing as anything else out there.

Original Ryan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#262302) #
Lincoln is one of the better relievers on the Jays. Even good relievers have bad days. If we're going to judge Lincoln on the basis of one or two appearances, why not choose the 3.1 innings of one-hit ball that he threw against Oakland in extra innings?

Oliver was available, hasn't worked much of late, and has had success against Dunn previously. While Janssen is ** The Closer **, he was also available and has good numbers against lefties, both this season and over his career. Both pitchers were better options than Lincoln.

Moe - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#262303) #
Comer, Musgrove, Perez, Wojo for Jay Happ??????  Snider for Lincoln.

As I've said before, we are all overreacting to the Snider trade. It is possible, maybe even likely, that PIT comes out ahead on this one. However, it is most likely that neither will have a great career. And even if Snider started to do really well in PIT, it's possible that he would have not accomplished the same with the Jays (see, Bautista, Jose).

However, with Comer included, I really don't get the Happ trade. He was considered quite a steal signing last year and how much value does he lose in one year out of HS? After all, he only has 10 games under his belt, some of which came after the trade. Yes, players this far from the majors are not much more than lottery tickets but this is still one steep price to pay for Happ. I don't want to think about what it would cost to get a real top pitcher if this is the price for a back-of-the-rotation guy.

.


Gerry - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#262304) #

Pitchers in low A have little value.  Even Aaron Sanchez, who is a year ahead of Comer and Musgrove, doesn't have a huge trade value because he is three years away from the major leagues.  There is no much failure among pitching prospects that every level down you go, their value is reduced.

Guys like Brandon Lyon and Brad Lincoln have shown they can pitch in the major leagues and that has value.  Pitchers in short season ball have very little value.  So I am less outraged than many at the trade and the value exchanging hands. 

I am more concerned about the meaning of the trade from a front office perspective.  Is the plan changing?  Is the front office more short term focused?  Are we willing to let go of the future in favour of the present?  I would like to know what the trades mean from this perspective. 

One thing that is lost in this is that the Jays 2011 crop of pitching prospects from the draft is much less successful than the 2010 draftees.  This time last year Sanchez, Syndergaard and Nicolino were the talk of the Jays minor leagues.  Nicolino and Syndergaard pitched in the playoffs for Lansing, Sanchez ended in Vancouver.  This year Musgrove was injured a lot, Comer, Gabryszwski and Norris have pitched well from time to time but I don't expect they would have pitched for Lansing in the playoffs.  I don't think they will pitch for Vancouver in the playoffs unless the Jays decide to force them up there for the experience.

Was the Jays success in the 2010 draft a result of the increased scouting focus, or luck?  What of the 2011 results?  If luck is the answer what does that mean for the future?  Luck is the scariest answer in many respects.

Lylemcr - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#262305) #
Is part of the issue the fact that the Jays have a loaded farm system and they need to get rid of some peices to make room for others?
Ryan Day - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#262306) #
It seems silly to get upset about losing a pitcher who might, if things go fairly well, in 3-5 years, be as good as J.A. Happ. He could be much better, but it's also entirely possible he'll never even make it to the major leagues.
Moe - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#262307) #
Is part of the issue the fact that the Jays have a loaded farm system and they need to get rid of some peices to make room for others?

The upper majors are pretty empty at this point and these guys had a few years until they needed to be added to the 40 men roster.


Moe - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#262308) #
It seems silly to get upset about losing a pitcher who might, if things go fairly well, in 3-5 years, be as good as J.A. Happ. He could be much better, but it's also entirely possible he'll never even make it to the major leagues.

I don't know about the others on this side, but for me it's not about one pitcher. It's the package of 4 young players for someone with not too much value. If it would have been Happ straight up for Comer, I would have called the trade a big victory for the Jays. But it's one thing to give away one or two lottery tickets, but 4 seems a bit much. Yes, most likely neither will become an all star but the more tickets you give away, the higher that risk. Only one year ago, these guys were giving quite sizable signing boni, indicating that they have quite a bit of upside.


China fan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#262309) #
"....this is still one steep price to pay for Happ...."

Of course we won't truly be able to judge this trade until we see how the prospects develop, which will take many years. But still, let's not portray it as a trade for Happ alone. The Jays also acquired David Carpenter, who has upside, and Brandon Lyon, who has pitched excellently for the Jays and has helped stabilize the bullpen. The latest rumor is that the Jays will try to sign Lyon to a new contract for next season or longer. Yes, they could have tried to sign him as a free agent, but he's easier to sign if he's already on the team. I still think that good solid relievers are worth paying a price for -- and all of the anger about Cordero this year is perhaps proof of that.

As for Happ -- let's not judge him on the basis of 2 starts. He had a couple of pretty strong seasons in 2009 and 2010 and it's a bit early to be writing him off at this stage. It's not impossible that he could be a good 5th starter for the Jays.
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#262310) #

It seems silly to get upset about losing a pitcher who might, if things go fairly well, in 3-5 years, be as good as J.A. Happ. He could be much better, but it's also entirely possible he'll never even make it to the major leagues.

Except that we lost three or four of them.

I have no doubt that the Jays hopes for Comer, Musgrove, Wojo, Perez and Rollins has soured.  I don't see the point in throwing them away when their outlook could improve just as easily, or another team may see more value.  There's just really no point in throwing away higher upside prospects for relievers and back-of-the-rotation starters.  Pick these guys up in free agency.  Let your failing prospects turn into these types naturally.  Get them as throw-ins in larger deals.

Mike Green - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#262311) #
Everything AA has said and done recently is suggesting that he's preparing for a 2013 run at contention

What he has done recently is not really consistent with a 2013 run at contention.  The LF trades create an additional vacancy which may or may not be filled adequately with a Gose/Rasmus switch. 

I am not complaining about that- I feel that 2012 would have been a better time to really go for it, and 2014 may also be. 
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#262313) #

Of course we won't truly be able to judge this trade until we see how the prospects develop, which will take many years.

Well that would be unfair.  The GM's who made the trade don't have the benefit of hindsight, so why should they be evaluated only after the availability of hindsight.

The trade should be evaluated based on all the information we know today.  Granted, we don't know what the GM's know, but that doesn't have to stop the discussion.

I can see how a catalogue of transactions from a GM could be evaluated with hindsight to try to glean some insight into the player evaluation skills, but any one transaction is subject to too much luck to fairly evaluate with hindsight.

Moe - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#262314) #
As for Happ -- let's not judge him on the basis of 2 starts. He had a couple of pretty strong seasons in 2009 and 2010

His 2010 was not nearly as good as 2009. And in 2009 the sense was that he was getting lucky. High LOB, low HR/FB, the stuff that evens out over time. His FIB was 4.33 and xFIB 4.43. He was never going to sustain his sub 3 ERA.


ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#262315) #
I think back of the rotation starters and relievers are pretty fungible assets.  I dislike giving up anything with upside for them.  Comer and Musgrove may have some injury concerns but their big projectable teenagers with a lot of upside.  I don't mind that they gave them up for assets, but would prefer it if it was part of a deal for an elite asset, not a fungible one.
John Northey - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#262317) #
But could LF be filled by Sierra instead?  A 126 OPS+ so far.  He missed almost all of 2010 due to injury, had a 778 OPS the next year in AA, 832 in Vegas (not great for Vegas) but might have been adjusting various things there.  Remember, he reached AA at 20 before injuries took hold.  If his potential from then is coming through we might have a winner.

Gose clearly wasn't ready yet, but if Sierra is then all is good.

eudaimon - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#262320) #
ayjackson: You say GM's don't have the benefit of hindsight, and that's true.

However, they do make trades based on foresight, or their perception of future value.

Future value may be linked to present value, but it may also depend on the (subjective) conceptions of each asset. Maybe Blue Jays scouts didn't think much of the future of these prospects. Or perhaps scouts really thought that J.A. Happ or David Carpenter has a future value above what is commonly thought, because they have the right tools / know how to coach them / etc.

So, it's kind of frustrating, but it really is impossible to judge a trade until it all pans out. We can guess based on our conception of value, and sometimes that's good enough (ie: everyone knows that Vernon Wells trade was great for us), but in prospect based trades it can be really hard to tell until after the fact.

Even then, a lot of deals are a kind of "roll of the dice," and failure in these cases may not even mean that the trade was necessarily bad.

Anyways, I guess my point is that it'll be hard to judge the trade until it all pans out.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#262322) #
A starter with a career ERA+ of 96 (which is entirely average) is not fungible.  You cannot acquire these guys for next to nothing at any time.  This is a common misunderstanding which leads to the kinds of problems that the club fell into in 2012. 

Lincoln's status is a little different.  The argument is that he is a high-leverage reliever and not fungible, but that one is up for grabs. 
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#262323) #

However, they do make trades based on foresight, or their perception of future value.

Yes, but I think it's difficult to evaluate their ability to perceive future value based on one transaction.  There is too much influence of luck on a small sample.  Whether a trade "turns out good" is something that can be measured over time, but whether it is good, should be considered at the time of acquisition with the benefit of the information available. 

For example, I could go buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid tomorrow.  We might evaluate that as a good decision based on all the reports available on the quality of that vehicle compared to others in its class.  It may turn out to be a lemon.  That doesn't mean it was a bad purchase.  If I continually make purchase lemons througout my life, it could be bad luck, but there's more of a chance that I'm chosing to rely on the wrong information and not a good car buyer.

It is a small point of contention really, but I don't like it when people say we shouldn't evaluate a trade until several years have passed.  We should evaluate it now and continue to measure it into the future.

 

Richard S.S. - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#262324) #

John

I agree with you on Sierra as our Left Fielder going forward.   Without injury, Sierra would be up here already.   

Snider had more pop, but Sierra was the better Outfielder, with the big RF arm.  Snider had more hype, while Sierra had the better upside.  When Sierra was hurt, missing that long, people forgot how good he was.   It possible Marc Hulet or TamRa might have better information on him.

China fan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#262327) #
"....I don't like it when people say we shouldn't evaluate a trade until several years have passed...."

Yes, good point, but please don't misquote me -- I didn't actually say that we shouldn't try to evaluate the trades now. I only suggested that a final accurate judgement wouldn't be possible for some years, which is a different point.

Of course we should assess and debate every trade as soon as it happens. However, if we're assessing a trade on the basis of the "high upside" of prospects, it's a little tedious for some people to be assuming that the high potential will be realized -- which is impossible to disprove. Your guess is as good as mine. If someone wants to predict that Travis Snider is a future all-star, and that therefore the Lincoln trade was a bad one, go ahead and make that prediction, and all we can do is wait to see if it's accurate or not.
Oceanbound - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#262328) #
The point is that a decent chunk of people think high upside players shouldn't be traded en masse in exchange for players you use to fill out the roster. It really doesn't matter if all of those players end up flopping. It's the reasoning behind this type of trade that is important.
ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#262329) #

Didn't mean to attribute that sentiment to you, CF.  I've seen it a few places around the web.

ayjackson - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#262331) #

The point is that a decent chunk of people think high upside players shouldn't be traded en masse in exchange for players you use to fill out the roster.

This is all it is really. 

And plenty of talent evaluators out there seem to think that Comer, Musgrove, Snider and to a lesser extent, Wojo and Perez seem to still have a lot of upside.

Maybe time will show that AA has identified controllable relievers as the new market innefficiency - relievers are definitely problematic and have to pitch a large number of innings, who knows?  Maybe Happ is unearthed as an "on the cusp" star?  Hopefully our pro scouts are better than our high school scouts?

 

China fan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#262334) #
Thanks, AY. And those are all good points. I will say this: Anthopoulos is now reaching the very tricky and dangerous part of his work, where he'll be increasingly under the skeptical eye of a long-suffering fan base. Up until now, it was easy for everyone to praise him for rejuvenating the farm system, dumping Vernon Wells, acquiring Rasmus and collecting compensation picks. That was the fun stuff. Now, beginning in 2013 or maybe even now, he'll be judged by the on-field performance of his team. People aren't going to be quite so forgiving. Speaking as someone who has liked what AA has done, I'm willing to be patient for a while longer, but I'll be sorely disappointed if he fails to make a couple of key pitching acquisitions in the off-season, and if he fails to solve the LF and 2B issues. If there's no significant progress in the team's performance by the end of 2013, we'll have the right to criticize a lot more of his trades so far.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#262335) #
I think that is a bit harsh, CF. Anthopoulos will likely get little help from Rogers during the off-season, and with the injuries and the absence of significant talent in double A and triple A, it is not likely that the club will be competing in 2013.  Save your lightning bolts for the man!
China fan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#262336) #
My expectations for the Blue Jays are only based on the words of Anthopoulos and Beeston themselves. They think the Jays can be contenders in 2013, they've said it publicly, and they know they'll be under a lot of pressure from the fan base if they fail to do so. For the past few months, Anthopoulos has stated publicly that the phase of pure prospect accumulation is over; the new phase is acquiring MLB-ready players who can help the team in the short term, with an eye towards contention.
greenfrog - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#262340) #
Lawrie, Johnson, EE...how many of these positional player injuries are being caused by the RC field turf (which visiting players clearly despise)? And was it really necessary to start EE in LF last night - why are the Jays straining for an extra win or two when they're out of the race? You could see Encarnacion grimace and grab his shoulder after his attempted diving catch...not pretty.
bpoz - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#262341) #
I think all the speculations & opinions make sense even though they often strongly disagree with each other.

I think we should have accurate facts. CF is right about AA talking about contending in 2013. Links were provided for us to follow what he said. Did he really say his offense & pen were good enough to contend in 2013? I do not know because after trying I could not get the audio link to work so I gave up.
Personally I am probably over rating Syndergaard, Sanchez, Nicolino & Osuna. I also like A Tirado now with Bluefield & Y Del Rosario. Those 2 are young and have been getting good results. So if we have to give up someone, I would be upset if any of those 6 were included. So to get something we must give up something, A Cardona, J Labourt, D Norris, thankfully it is not my decision.

Some people thought that we could contend as the July 31 trade deadline approached. I thought our rotation was terrible, so no way except that the offense was scoring a lot, maybe even leading the league. The pen was very successful, mainly Janssen, at saving the lead. So I had a little faith. If AA had done nothing at all to help the Major league team 10-15% of fans would complain IMO. AA improved the rotation & pen with that deal. We really needed depth. I am glad AA did something only because he said that more trades would happen at the trading deadline. He gave a reason but I cannot remember what it is. Since he traded about a dozen players & got back a half dozen, to me he has done what he said. I also think that he was dealing from a huge position of weakness.

I hope Lansing wins this year because I think that their rotation will be quite weak next year. But then the Vancouver rotation will be loaded. On the 3rd hand some of the teen age prospects may get physically stronger over the winter and throw in the mid 90s rather than the high 80s.
smcs - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#262344) #
Don't care about the outcome, but the thought process that leads to "David Cooper Sac Bunt attempt" is flawed.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#262345) #

Value for value is what making a trade is all about.   Sometimes it's perceived value for perceived value that is involved in a trade.  No one has the same perceived value as another's perceived value about anything, which makes trading anything very difficult.  How much value does a draft pick have?  How much does a first year player have? How much value does someone not in AA have for a Major League Team?   To a Major League Team a prospect is important if he's Major League ready now or Major League ready next year or will get you someone MLB or MLB ready.   Anyone who is not yet there, only has value to the Farm system.   Perceived value is in how fast they will get here, and only 'the year after next' has value to the Big Club.  The most value is to the GM.  A strong, healthy top-ranked Farm system makes trading easier, everyone wants your guys. 

Then mopy fans, with little life of their own, bemoan and begrudge everything you do.   They absolutely know you're trading away superstars, and are incapable of evaluating MLB talent.  This is truly sad. 

Landomar - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#262348) #
AA did some impressive maneuvering to load up on compensation draft picks the last few years.  You know, the ones we used on players like Comer, Musgrove, and Wojciechowski.  Players like this are a big reason why our farm system is rated so highly.  There's no reason to think that Comer or Musgrove in particular will become good major leaguers, but if you have enough you talented guys like that, then you increase your chances of developing a gem.  Dumping 4 good prospects for ho-hum major league talent, with the MLB team going nowhere this season anyway, doesn't seem sensible.  Besides, I learned how to spell Wojciechowski.  That took effort. 
jerjapan - Thursday, August 16 2012 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#262351) #
Am I the only one who wants to wait till the PTBNL is actually named before judging this deal? 
TamRa - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 12:38 AM EDT (#262352) #
"I hope Lansing wins this year because I think that their rotation will be quite weak next year."

Eh?

I make the following as players who will come to ST next year with a theoretical chance of impressing the organization enough to break camp with Lansing:

A. Osuna
D. Norris
T. Cole
J. Avendano
J. Gabryzwiski (sp)
T. Robson
A. Cardona
J. Labourt
Y. DelRosario
A. tirado
M. Biggs
T. Gonzales
M. Smoral
C. DeJong
D. Estrada

and of course filler like Tucker Jensen and so forth.

Now one can certainly parse that list (Cardona stumbled some, Smoral won't start that high, and so on)  but there are plenty of quality guys in the short season staffs. None except the first two as talented as the Big 3, but not scrubs either.

If Osuna is, say, roughly as good as Sanchez (age relative) and Norris is the functional equivilant of Nicolino, and Avendano is more or less as good as or better than hernandez, and Cole is comparable to DeSclafini...then the difference in the two staffs might be the difference between Syndergaard and Gaby...which is considerable, but not enough to conclude the staff will be "quite weak" by a long shot.
Oceanbound - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 03:06 AM EDT (#262356) #
I wish there was an ignore function on this site, so I don't have to read a certain someone making unprovoked insults at others in every other thread. It is really getting tiresome.
MatO - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#262360) #

I wish there was an ignore function on this site, so I don't have to read a certain someone making unprovoked insults at others in every other thread. It is really getting tiresome.

It's very simple.  I know the posters who, in my opinion, have nothing useful to offer and I ignore their comments.

Mike Green - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#262363) #
The retro approach has much to be said for it, MatO.  I believe that Oceanbound was making a coded plea for more pena-like behaviour.  Wild gesticulation is cool, but personal insults get old very quickly. 
Ryan Day - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#262365) #
Dumping 4 good prospects for ho-hum major league talent, with the MLB team going nowhere this season anyway, doesn't seem sensible.

I suspect most people would agree with that.

But what if you don't think Happ (and Carpenter, and Lyon) are ho-hum talent? What if your scouts or coaches think they've identified a few fixes that will improve Happ's performance and make him an above-average starting pitcher?
ayjackson - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#262367) #
So nobody wants to talk about Goins and Schimpf?  Either could be a possible platoon mate with Hech next year?
Gerry - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#262370) #

Platoon mate in AAA?  Maybe.

Schimpf has only a few months in AA and I don't believe he is a great defender.  I would think Schimpf will be back in AA next year.

Goins should be in AAA next year but he is a smallish guy.  He doesn't have a lot of power and he may or may not be major league quality at shortstop.  He has surprised this year and could be more than the utility guy he was profiled to be. 

Mike Green - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#262372) #
Goins has hit .291/.343/.398 as a 24 year old in double A.  He is a passable fielder, probably better suited to second base.  He actually stands in pretty well against lefties, by observation and from the statistical record. 

If you use him as a platoon second baseman with Hechavarria, he might hit .270/.305/.370 and the platoon might be as valuable as Kelly Johnson in an off-year. 

bpoz - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#262381) #
Thanks for the Lansing list TamRa. I guess and possibly you do too that there will be tandems at Lansing next year as well.
I would like to see T Cole be our sleeper/surprise guy. Actually anyone. I love those came from nowhere like Alvarez & Hutch. Anyone willing to come up from off the Deck will please me too.

Regarding the PTBNL trades LAD traded R O Neal for J Blanton as another example of a 2011 draftee being named after the 1 year expiry. If there are other examples, there was 1 last year, Cleveland I believe, then this is a format that may become more common. Also why cannot Lyons be dealt this way, lottery pick, before Aug 31. Another way was 2013 out of options players like Snider. Also there was someone like that in the Escobar trade LHP with a high upside.

ayjackson - Friday, August 17 2012 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#262386) #
I just like saying Goins and Schimpf.
Gerry - Sunday, August 19 2012 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#262430) #
Griffin Murphy gets the start in game 2 of the doubleheader tonight. So far so good, four shutout innings. Depending on pitch count he might stay in the game much longer.
Walk offs in Las Vegas and Dunedin with a sobering 3-2 overall for the Farm on Wednesday Night | 55 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.