Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Glenn Close To Damaging Baseballs In Harrisburg

Glenn Close To Damaging Baseballs In Harrisburg

Another 3-4 record posted by the affiliates Tuesday. Buffalo and Lansing took another hit to their playoff hopes. Vancouver is still in control of their own destiny as one of their players joins a unique 30-30 club. New Hampshire got a nice boost from a player who was up with the big club this year and a pitcher making his first start in Double-A. Bluefield reached double digits in the run column to get a win on the road.

Pawtucket 9 Buffalo 3

Buffalo, NY - Daniel Norris (3-1) got knocked around by the Red Sox affiliate for six runs over four-plus innings. The damage was done on eight hits and three walks. He had three K's and six ground ball outs. Mike Zagurski gave up two hits but struck out the side in a scoreless fifth. Steve Delabar put up a zero in the sixth with one strikeout to overcome a hit and a walk. Kyle Drabek was drilled for three runs on five hits in the seventh with one only strikeout. Colt Hynes pitched a scoreless eighth with one strikeout. Bobby Korecky pitched a one-hitter for a scoreless ninth.

The Bisons grabbed a 3-0 lead in their first at-bat. Cole Gillespie's sacrifice fly drove in a Dalton Pompey single for the first run. Matt Hague doubled in the second run and Brett Wallace singled home the third. Hague had two doubles and three hits on the night. Anthony Gose also got on base three times with a hit and two walks and was successful on two of three stolen base attempts. Pompey had two base hits.

New Hampshire 6 Harrisburg 4

Manchester, NH - Brad Glenn put on a show for the hometown faithful. He and K.C. Hobson got the Fisher Cats rolling with RBI singles in the first inning before Glenn connected for a two-run homer in the third. Derrick Chung singled in a Michael Crouse triple in the fourth before Glenn went deep again for a solo number in the eighth. Kevin Nolan trailed Glenn in the hit department with two and also stole a base.

Ben White (1-0) delivered a quality start in his Double-A debut. He threw 6.1 innings of three-run ball by allowing just four hits and three walks to the Nationals affiliate. He struck out seven to match his groundout total of seven. Richard Bleier permitted both inherited runners to score, giving up two hits while getting just one out. Dustin Antolin stranded both Bleier runners but was charged with one of his own in 1.1 innings on two hits but all four outs were via the strikeout. Gregory Infante walked one in the ninth but put up a goose egg for his 21st save.

Daytona 6 Dunedin 4

Dunedin, FL - The D-Jays held leads of 3-0 and 4-3 before the Cubs pulled this one out with three runs in the eighth. Roberto Osuna was victimized for a home run among the three runs and five hits he gave up in 4.1 innings. However, he struck out seven, walked nobody and split his six outs in play evenly between the ground and the air. Efrain Nieves (3-5) had one of two inherited runners cross the plate and he was charged with three runs, all unearned after a Christian Lopes error at second and a Jorge Saez passed ball. Nieves gave up six hits and a walk over 3.1 innings. He struck out four and all five outs in play were on the grass. Jesse Hernandez stranded his lone inherited runner and pitched 1.1 scoreless frames, yielding two hits but striking out one.

Dunedin erupted for three runs in the first inning, courtesy of an Emilio Guerrero three-run homer. Dwight Smith Jr. went deep to lead off the fifth. Guerrero had three hits and Lopes chipped in with two. Mitch Nay had a base hit in five trips to the plate. Every Dunedin hitter, save for Kevin Patterson, had a hit but Patterson did draw a walk and was hit by a pitch.

Lake County 3 Lansing 2

Lansing, MI - It was a quality start for Jeremy Gabryszwski (6-6) at the very least. He reached the minimum six innings, three runs allowed threshold on six hits and two walks. He struck out seven but only three of his 10 outs in play stayed in the diamond. Francisco Gracesqui pitched two innings of one-hit ball. He plunked a hitter but he struck out two. Brady Dragmire worked a clean ninth.

Both Lansing runs came in the eighth on a Rowdy Tellez RBI single and a Dawel Lugo RBI fielder's choice. Chaz Frank had two hits while Tellez drew a walk to get aboard twice. D.J. Davis and Matt Dean also put a one in the hit column.

Vancouver 3 Eugene 1

Tim Locastro went 1-for-3 and scored Vancouver's first run after getting hit by a pitch and stealing second base Tuesday night in Eugene.

Eugene, OR - Tim Locastro is a 30-30 man. He scored Vancouver's first run in the first inning by getting hit by a pitch for the 30th time and stealing second base for his 30th stolen base before coming home on a Ryan McBroom single. The C's added two more runs in the third when Roemon Fields singled, stole his 47th base and eventually came home on a Franklin Barreto fielder's choice. That run scoring play led to the ejection of Eugene manager Robbie Wine Jr. Barreto would score on a Chris Carlson single. Locastro, Gunnar Heidt and Alexis Maldonado also had base raps. Mike Reeves walked twice.

Matthew Smoral survived 10 baserunners in 5.1 innings to get the victory against the Emeralds Tuesday night.

Matthew Smoral (2-0) managed to gut his way through 5.1 innings and allow just one run to the Padres affilliate despite 10 baserunners on six hits and four walks. He struck out four and got seven outs on the ground. Yeyfrey Del Rosario came to Smoral's rescue by stranding two of his runners and leaving the bases loaded in the sixth by striking out two of the four batters he whiffed over 1.1 innings to overcome a hit and a walk. Michael Kraft picked up Del Rosario by stranding a runner and pitching 1.1 scoreless innings with one strikeout. Phil Kish allowed a hit but induced two ground balls, including a game-ending double play to get his sixth save.

Bluefield 10 Greeneville 2

Greeneville, TN - Despite being eliminated from playoff contention, the Bluefield bats showed no signs of mailing it in. Lane Thomas got the Jays rolling with an RBI single in the first. Kevin Garcia, Angel Rojas and Josh Almonte followed up with run-scoring singles in the second. Jesus Gonzalez drove in two more with a base hit in the fifth. Almonte doubled home three runs in the eighth and trotted home on a Thomas sacrifice fly to help Bluefield reach double digits. Rojas, Almonte, Thomas, Gonzalez and Rolando Segovia all had two-hit games. Segovia was on base with four times with a walk and a plunk while Almonte was on three times with a base on balls. Thomas stole a base along with Sean Hurley, who singled and walked. Garcia also had a walk to go with his base hit. Gabriel Cenas was 1-for-5.

Oscar Cabrera pitched 3.1 innings and surrendered both runs, which were unearned after an error by Garcia behind the plate. He allowed five hits and two walks to the Astros but he struck out four. Conor Fisk (5-1) also struck out four, chipping in with 2.2 scoreless frames with just a hit and two walks allowed. Tim Mayza polished things off with three scoreless innings. He struck out one and worked around two hits and two walks.

GCL Pirates 7 GCL Blue Jays 3

Dunedin, FL - Jacob Brentz (1-3) gave up all three of his runs on a three-run homer. He lasted four innings and allowed three hits and four walks but he struck out five and four of his six outs in play were on the ground. Turner Lee was trounced for four runs in three innings, giving up eight hits, a walk and a hit by pitch. His K and GO totals were four apiece. J.T. Autrey worked around two hits and a walk by putting up two scoreless frames in which he struck out a pair.

Juan Kelly tripled in the first run for the Jays in the fourth inning while Nathan DeSouza doubled in the other two in the eighth. Dave Pepe had the only two-hit game and also had a walk. Dean Bell doubled while Deiferson Barreto and Javier Hernandez had base hits. Brett Wellman drew a walk and Cliff Brantley took one for the team.

Tuesday's Linescores

*** 3 Stars!!! ***

3. Anthony Gose, Buffalo - Batting .267 with six stolen bases in eight games since returning to Buffalo.

2. Ben White, New Hampshire - K-BB total of 86-35 in 131.2 innings between Dunedin and New Hampshire.

1. Brad Glenn, New Hampshire - 14 homers among his 37 extra-base hits between New Hampshire and Buffalo this season.

3 Stars images from MiLB.com.

Wednesday's Schedule & Probable Starters

Starlyn Suriel - pitching for Vancouver earlier this season - gets the ball for Lansing Wednesday evening.

GCL Yankees1 @ GCL Blue Jays, 10:00 am (DH) - TBA.
Buffalo @ Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (DH), 5:35 pm ET - TBA/TBA.
Daytona @ Dunedin, 6:30 pm ET - Matt Boyd (5-2, 1.04).
Harrisburg @ New Hampshire, 6:35 pm ET - Casey Lawrence (9-8, 3.71).
Lansing @ Dayton, 7:05 pm ET - Starlyn Suriel (2-3, 2.84).
Pulaski @ Bluefield, 7:05 pm ET - TBA.
Vancouver @ Eugene, 10:05 pm ET - Ryan Borucki (0-1, 2.00).

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 02:02 AM EDT.

Glenn Close To Damaging Baseballs In Harrisburg | 23 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 02:34 AM EDT (#292608) #

Too bad for Norris, but it does show he's human. Believe it or not, but I think he needs the September call-up more than others. He needs the challenge to find out what he needs to work on, and what works.

Chuck - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 07:50 AM EDT (#292610) #

Glenn Close To Damaging Baseballs In Harrisburg

Nice show reference.

ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 08:47 AM EDT (#292615) #

Nice show reference.

Very good! Missed it.

uglyone - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#292620) #

I have to say it's pretty hilarious how well gose has done since pompey stole his spot as cf leadoff hitter young exciting prospect.

Doing a quick approx of his statline since pompey was called up...

5gms, 21ab, 6/8sb, .333avg, .391obp, .571slg, .962ops

Doesn't say much about gose' character, but it might help give a positive spin to his poor AAA numbers after his solid rookie year.

PeterG - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#292622) #

Gose and Jenkins have been used like yoyos...that is difficult and even a bit unfair though it is understandable why it is being done. I think their AAA stats have to be taken with a grain of salt. I feel both will do better with a full year in the show next year. Gose should have been here in place of Rasmus for some time now...

ayjackson - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 12:28 PM EDT (#292623) #

Perhaps a sense of entitlement on the part of Gose?

John Northey - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#292625) #

Gose did throw a fit last year I think when he didn't break camp with the team. A bit of a maturity issue, entitlement, or just someone who really needs to be feeling pressure to do well. Funny thing is, if he can get past it he probably will be a solid coach in his 30's or 40's as he will understand motivation and why players seem to quit trying more so than a player who never does that.

Hopefully Gose does some of that growing up this winter and figures out it is time to play every game as if someone is going to steal his job. If he does that I bet we see a lot better player - the one AA thought he was getting back when. As I said earlier, it is time to trade Rasmus for whatever you can get and let Gose play in CF with Pillar in a platoon. Pompey can be mixed in, but I'd probably leave him down and let him fight in spring for it.

Beyonder - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#292626) #

"Gose should have been here in place of Rasmus for some time now."

What is it about Anthony Gose that continues to inspire such confidence in the face of such a massive body of evidence that he is a marginal major (and minor) league player? Since his breakout season in 2011 for New Hampshire where he managed to post an OPS of .763, he has regressed pretty much every way you can regress (Batting average, OBP, ISO, and attitude), all the while getting older and supposedly more experienced. He should not be on the team, and certainly not ahead of any of the incumbents (including Pillar).

ayjackson - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#292631) #

I'd be pretty happy with a Gose/Pillar platoon over the rest of the season and for next. Frees up about $10m too. So if you can get anything for Rasmus, you should.

Hodgie - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#292632) #

"What is it about Anthony Gose that continues to inspire such confidence in the face of such a massive body of evidence that he is a marginal major (and minor) league player?"

Maybe it is the possibility he may be one of the best defensive players in MLB at a premium position, adds significant value on the base paths and having just turned 24 years of age still has an opportunity to grow his offensive game. With an even modest improvement in that area Gose can be a 4-5 win player.

In my dreams I see an outfield consisting of Gose and Pompey leaving about 10 feet in left field that needs to be patrolled.

uglyone - Wednesday, August 27 2014 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#292637) #

"What is it about Anthony Gose that continues to inspire such confidence in the face of such a massive body of evidence that he is a marginal major (and minor) league player? Since his breakout season in 2011 for New Hampshire where he managed to post an OPS of .763, "

A few points:

1) that wasn't a breakout season.

18 (A): 562pa, 96wrc+
19 (A+): 574pa, 111wrc+
20 (AA): 587pa, 114wrc+
21 (AAA): 479pa, 106wrc+

In his first four years in milb he was an average to well above average hitter in 4 leagues, despite being one of the very youngest players at each stop, while having elite defensive upside. There was plenty to like there. Compare what he did at his ages to all of our current prospects and only pompey and barreto seem more impressive at the plate, and even then they've been older for their levels than gose was. Butt given age and level, gose was more impressive at the plate in all four of those years than the likes of smith, urena, tellez, nay, lugo, etc have been.

2) some feel that his poor performance in AAA after that first solid season was more effort related than skill related. Personally i don't like this theory but it's not impossible, and is arguably backed up by the fact that he's been just as good in mlb the past two years as he's been in AAA:

Last two years:

AAA: 642pa, 82wrc+
MLB: 358pa, 82wrc+

That might be fluke mlb performance but could possibly be lack of effort in AAA.

3) His performance in mlb from ages 21-23 has been.....not bad. He's put up 1.4war in 587pa, which is a bit less than a full season. And projecting as a 1.5-2.0war type player at ages 21-23 isn't bad at all. Since we usually expect a youngster to improve, that kind of start to his career translating to 3ish war regular wouldn't be a huge stretch.

What's more is that he shows even better value than that as a platoon player. He's been a ~90wrc+ hitter vs rhp from ages 21-23, which with his defense and speed already makes him a valuable player in that role. If he improves that with age its not hard to project that to league average hitting vs rhp, which with his speed and defense definitely makes him a valuable player in that role. (Contrast that with his useless 45ish wrc+ which has brought his overall value down. And these splits are backed up by his milb performance).

4) in fact, looking at all his numbers, i could make a decent argument that the only part of his track record that DOESN'T indicate potentisl mlb usefulness is strictly the 642pa he's had in AAA in the last two seasons. His mlb performance over those two seasons, plus the rest of his milb track record before that, do seem to indicate legit potential to be a good mlb contributor.

Hmm. I may have just convinced myself of something.

P.s. Based on both mlb and milb numbers, i'm not sure there's any reason to think pillar can be a better hitter vs rhp than gose, and gose has the speed and defense advantage.

Since 2011, stats vs. Rhp:

Milb

Gose (20-23): 1253pa, 10.0bb%, 24.1k%, .263/.347/.413/.760
Pillar (22-25): 1266pa, 5.8bb%, 13.3k%, .304/.350/.448/.798

Mlb

Gose (21-23): 422pa, 9.0bb%, 24.9k%, .245/.324/.354/.678
Pillar (24-25): 93pa, 1.1bb%, 29.0k%, .182/.209/.295/.504

dan gordon - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 02:40 AM EDT (#292648) #

Gose's first season in AAA was in Las Vegas, though, and we all know how that park and league hugely inflates offense. If you correct for the league and park, Gose has been roughly the same now for 3 years in a row at AAA. That kind of stagnation is a big red flag. He's not getting any better. It's rare for a player to have 3 seasons in a row at AAA at pretty much the same mediocre level, and go on the become a good mlb hitter. I used to be very high on Gose because he was performing so well for his age, but the stagnation the last 3 seasons has drastically reduced my outlook for him. Yes, his defense is terrific, but the offense isn't improving, and, despite his speed, he is not a good base runner. His SB% is decent, not great - roughly 73% in the minors, a little better in the majors, and subjectively, he seems to me to make a lot of mistakes trying to take extra bases, stealing at inappropriate times, getting picked off, etc.

uglyone - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#292653) #

wRC+ adjusts for league and park factors, which is why it's so great for milb numbers comps.

bpoz - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#292654) #

I see that Lane Thomas hits well and plays both OF & 3B. So far so good.

Beyonder - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#292655) #

A few points in response uglyone:

1)Yeah. I don’t disagree that there was reason to be excited about Gose’s potential – three seasons ago. Whether 2011 was a breakout season, or simply his best, isn’t relevant to my main point.

2) "Last two years:

AAA: 642pa, 82wrc+
MLB: 358pa, 82wrc+

That might be fluke mlb performance but could possibly be lack of effort in AAA."

I am not sure what mileage you get from the point that Gose’s mediocre performance in the last two years is either on account of actual mediocrity or a combination of actual mediocrity and complacency. Neither theory bodes well for his major league future.

3) "Since we usually expect a youngster to improve."

We don’t usually expect young players to improve. We expect most to fail. I think that observation that suffers from sample bias. We observe that players who stay in MLB improve up to a certain age – but by definition, when you look at MLB players you are looking solely at the success stories – they get to stay in MLB because they are improving. For every success there are many more who fail invisibly. By sheer virtue or the numbers, Gose is likely to be one of those.

4) "What's more is that he shows even better value than that as a platoon player."

I agree with this: the less Gose plays, the greater his value to the team. My wife’s value as a cook has follows the same utility curve.

5) "If he improves that with age its not hard to project that to league average hitting vs rhp"

If you want to project a player who has been getting worse vs RHP for three seasons (from 2012 to 2014, OPS vs. RHP of .786, .692, .620 in AAA) to reverse course and become a league average hitter on account of father time, I guess you can do that. I wouldn’t.

6) on Pillar vs Gose:

"in fact, looking at all his numbers, i could make a decent argument that the only part of his track record that DOESN'T indicate potentisl mlb usefulness is strictly the 642pa he's had in AAA in the last two seasons. His mlb performance over those two seasons, plus the rest of his milb track record before that, do seem to indicate legit potential to be a good mlb contributor."

You mean if we ignore the largest and most recent body of empirical data about Gose’s performance we can create an argument that he has “legit potential to be a good mlb contributor”? I think this is called torturing the data until it speaks.

"P.s. Based on both mlb and milb numbers, i'm not sure there's any reason to think pillar can be a better hitter vs rhp than gose, and gose has the speed and defense advantage.

Since 2011, stats vs. Rhp:

Milb

Gose (20-23): 1253pa, 10.0bb%, 24.1k%, .263/.347/.413/.760
Pillar (22-25): 1266pa, 5.8bb%, 13.3k%, .304/.350/.448/.798

Mlb

Gose (21-23): 422pa, 9.0bb%, 24.9k%, .245/.324/.354/.678
Pillar (24-25): 93pa, 1.1bb%, 29.0k%, .182/.209/.295/.504"

So if we ignore Pillar’s actual superiority vs. RHP at the MILB level, ignore also that Gose’s numbers are inflated by a full season in the PCL, and then look at Pillar’s tiny 93 pa MLB sample as being reflective of something and present it alongside Gose’s 4X larger sample of demonstrated mediocrity, we can conclude that Pillar is unlikely to be any better than Gose vs. RHP?

Ryan Day - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#292656) #

Gose has had two major problems: First, most objectively, he is lousy at making contact. He's got a career .258 BA in the minors, with more than a strikeout per game. He's somehow managed to strike out less often in the majors, but he also seems to have lost the medium pop he showed in the minors.

More subjectively, he's incredibly streaky, and possibly prone to becoming unmotivated/inattentive. He's somehow been better in the majors over the last 2 years than he was in Buffalo; it looks like he's been exposed to more LHP in AAA, but he also seems to have handled them decently, and sucked vs RHP. Despite being one of the fastest players I've ever seen, he's not a particularly good base runner; he can rack up some steals, but also blunders into a fair amount of outs. Since his great 70 steal season in AA, he's just been okay.

So I dunno. He probably has the skills to be a very good, maybe a great player. But he might also be a guy who just stops paying attention regularly, or gets complacent if he doesn't have to compete for a job. Unless he's waiting for the right coach or teammate to snap him out of it.

Hodgie - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#292657) #

he's not a particularly good base runner

I see this sort of comment made quite often about Gose which I find odd given the base running metrics think he is elite. Subjectively he does make mistakes on the basepaths but he also possesses the speed to outrun many of those mistakes. It actually makes me wonder if at times much of the criticism directed at Gose is influenced by unmet expectations. Here is a player who with average offensive production could be a star in the league. Instead his offensive game has stagnated and what the fandom is left with is a just turned 24 year old CF who needs to run an OBP in the 0.330 range to provide average production for his position. Average production at least until his speed and defense begin their inevitable decline. Perhaps my standards have just dropped considerably but that still sounds like a valuable player to me.

uglyone - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#292658) #

And to rebut....

"1)Yeah. I don’t disagree that there was reason to be excited about Gose’s potential – three seasons ago. Whether 2011 was a breakout season, or simply his best, isn’t relevant to my main point. "

Well, i actually think there's a relevant distinction between saying "one breakout year is all he's shown" and "he's been good in every one of his four full minor league seasons".

"I am not sure what mileage you get from the point that Gose’s mediocre performance in the last two years is either on account of actual mediocrity or a combination of actual mediocrity and complacency. Neither theory bodes well for his major league future."

Yeah, like i said, i don't like the argument too much, but the possibility that he sulked for 600pa at a young age is there, and wouldn't be unrecoverable from.

The fact he's been decently valuable in mlb over that time, even at a very young age, gives some legit hope.

"We don’t usually expect young players to improve. We expect most to fail. I think that observation that suffers from sample bias. We observe that players who stay in MLB improve up to a certain age – but by definition, when you look at MLB players you are looking solely at the success stories – they get to stay in MLB because they are improving. For every success there are many more who fail invisibly. By sheer virtue or the numbers, Gose is likely to be one of those. "

Fair enough. I agree with you 100% on that.

Except in this case, gose hasn't failed. He's been a legit valuable mlb asset at ages 21-23. And, moreover, he has shown improvement so far. Unlike at ages 21 & 22, this year he's sporting a legit above average .333obp, which if sustainable makes him a very valuable player with his speed and defense. Gose has 1.3war in 205pa as a 23yr old - that's 4war type production over a full season. That's not mediocre, that's excellent.

"I agree with this: the less Gose plays, the greater his value to the team. My wife’s value as a cook has follows the same utility curve."

Heh.

Still, though, platoon advantages should be exploited.

"If you want to project a player who has been getting worse vs RHP for three seasons (from 2012 to 2014, OPS vs. RHP of .786, .692, .620 in AAA) to reverse course and become a league average hitter on account of father time, I guess you can do that. I wouldn’t."

See, i think you're making a mistake ignoring his increasingly significant mlb sample. Mlb numbers are more important than aaa numbers when the sample gets big enough, and gose is approaching that point and might be there already. This year gose has 205pa in mlb and 207pa in aaa....it's probably a mistake to look only at the aaa numbers. He has an 88wrc+ vRHP career, 93wrc+ this year....for a 21-23yr old speedy defensive player, that ain't bad at all.

"You mean if we ignore the largest and most recent body of empirical data about Gose’s performance we can create an argument that he has “legit potential to be a good mlb contributor”? I think this is called torturing the data until it speaks."

Not following you.

Gose has been good in every full minor league season he has played. Since then, he has split the last two years been mlb and aaa...and he has been a legit valuable mlber in those two years.

The two half seasons of aaa numbers are neither the largest nor the most relevant recent numbers.

I'll map it out:

23: mlb good / aaa bad
22: mlb decent / aaa bad
21: mlb decent / aaa good
20: aa good
19: a+ good
18: a good

"So if we ignore Pillar’s actual superiority vs. RHP at the MILB level, ignore also that Gose’s numbers are inflated by a full season in the PCL, and then look at Pillar’s tiny 93 pa MLB sample as being reflective of something and present it alongside Gose’s 4X larger sample of demonstrated mediocrity, we can conclude that Pillar is unlikely to be any better than Gose vs. RHP?"

No we don't ignore any of those factors, just like we don't ignore that those pillar numbers include even his stats from A+, and that pillar is two years older and started his AA career at age 24, a year older than gose is even now. If gose was on pillar's track he'd be getting his first taste of AA...next year.

To wit:

AA v RHP

Pillar (24): 213pa, .273/.324/.389/.713
Gose (20): 417pa, .256/.359/.449/.808

First yr AAA v RHP:

Pillar (24): 153pa, .259/.316/.424/.740
Gose (21): 380pa, .313/.389/.472/.861

First yr MLB v RHP:

Pillar (24): 73pa, .191/.225/.309/.534
Gose (21): 154pa, .207/.305/.296/.601

Second yr AAA v. RHP:

Pillar (25): 301pa, .310/.346/.480/.826
Gose (22): 329pa, .235/.309/.348/.657

Second yr MLB v RHP:

Pillar (25): 35pa, .171/.171/.257/.428
Gose (22): 111pa, .287/.306/.481/.787

Gose kind of whups pillar's butt at most every stage v RHP even though he's 3-4yrs younger at each one, and even taking into account the Vegas effect (which probably doesn't account for 120 points ops discrepancy).

uglyone - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#292660) #

Good point on his baserunning, hodgie.

In about one season's worth of opportunity, gose has stolen 33 bases at a 76.7% success rate. That's very good. Fangraphs also includes extra bases taken and the like in its baserunning metric and has gose worth +6.6bsr which is very good. This is a kid who stole 69 bases on 81% in a little less than one season in AA, and 76 bases on 79% in A. Even his 75sb on 70% in a little under two full seasons in AAA is solid. He did struggle in A+ that one year when he only stole 45 bases on 58%.

hypobole - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#292661) #

Gose's baserunning criticism puzzled me as well, so I looked up some numbers earlier. His only real problem this year is pickoffs; 4 times although one of those is included in his caught stealing total. He's only made 1 out trying to take an extra base on teammates hits.

Beyonder - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#292664) #

"Well, i actually think there's a relevant distinction between saying "one breakout year is all he's shown" and "he's been good in every one of his four full minor league seasons"."

OK. But of course, I said neither of those things.

"Except in this case, gose hasn't failed. He's been a legit valuable mlb asset at ages 21-23."

Maybe I'll give you that. That was not what I was saying though. I said he was a marginal major league player, which doesn’t preclude him being a legit asset.

"Unlike at ages 21 & 22, this year he's sporting a legit above average .333obp, which if sustainable makes him a very valuable player with his speed and defense."

You are focusing on WRC+ until it no longer suits you, at which point you move to another metric. Isn’t WRC+ supposed to represent the total offensive basket of goodies that a player brings to the table? Gose's WRC+ since 2012 is: for 2012 (106 in AAA, 70 in MLB) 2013 (85 in AAA, 84 in MLB), 2014 (75 in AAA, 80 in MLB). These numbers do not make him a valuable offensive player, even taking into account his contributions on the base paths that some seem so enamored with.

And while we are comparing, Pillar’s minor league WRC+ numbers are 139, 128, 139, 110, 124, 131, and 136. Yes, his tiny sample MLB numbers are abysmal (2013 (110 PA) WRC+ of 56, and 2014 (50PA) 51), but Pillar’s all-around offensive contributions project to greatly exceed Gose’s.

"Gose has 1.3war in 205pa as a 23yr old - that's 4war type production over a full season. That's not mediocre, that's excellent."

Not all curves are lines uglyone. And Baseball Reference Has Gose’s WAR at .5.

"See, i think you're making a mistake ignoring his increasingly significant mlb sample."

The only saving grace of Gose’s poor 2014 season is that it is a small sample.

"The two half seasons of aaa numbers are neither the largest nor the most relevant recent numbers."

Yes they are. They are the largest because 642 (His AAA PAs in the last 2 years) is larger than 358 (his MLB PAs). I would say they are the most relevant because they are the largest. And in terms of recentness, why don’t we call it a tie? My point was that when you say that “the only part of his track record that DOESN'T indicate potential mlb usefulness is strictly the 642pa he's had in AAA in the last two seasons”, you are cutting out the largest and most recent body of data.

John Northey - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#292666) #

Well, AAA isn't the majors. There are many factors that make it different. Now, to ignore it would be folly, but to give AAA stats the same or more weight than ML is risky too. With Gose there is no question motivation is a key factor - it has been reported on many times and his performance when Pompey showed up helps put a flag next to it as well.

So what to do with Gose? Right now I'd say a 4th OF/platoon mate in the majors is his current projection unless his offense picks up significantly. Yes, FanGraphs does show him as a very valuable player due to defense and baserunning (3.9 WAR over 600 PA), but BR doesn't (1.5 WAR over 600 PA based on just this year - although 0 runs from baserunning seems harsh with 14-4 SB-CS). BP also has a 1.5 WARP score (Wins above replacement player over 600 PA) for this season. All 3 systems though show Gose as a useful ML player right now - just that only FG shows him as a useful full-time ML player.

However you cut it Gose is useful, especially while cheap (as he is still). Used primarily in CF with a platoon mate he should be a solid asset in 2015. Now, is Pillar the right one? Is Pompey? I suspect in 2015 we'll see Pillar/Gose in CF with Pompey chomping at the bit in AAA to replace either/both.

TangledUpInBlue - Thursday, August 28 2014 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#292671) #

With Gose there is no question motivation is a key factor - it has been reported on many times...

Really? I recall one instance of that being reported. (Beginning of last year, I believe.) The rest, like all this stuff about Pompey's effect on him, has been silly speculation as far as I know.

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