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Another series and another new player to add to the roster for the Blue Jays as they acquire lefty David Price from Detroit just before a four-game set against Kansas City and the recently-acquired Johnny Cueto.


Daniel Norris was the price to pay, along with lefties Matt Boyd and Jairo Labourt, in the deal to get David Price to Toronto.


The Royals continue to trump the opposition, having not lost a series since the All-Star break, save for dropping a game in St. Louis on a make-up date. They won three of four in Chicago against the White Sox, took two of three at home against Pittsburgh and also scored 2-1 series wins against Houston and in Cleveland. With an American League best record of 61-39, they own a healthy nine-game lead over Minnesota in the Central.

The Blue Jays continue to plug along at .500 with a 51-51 record after earning a split of their two-game set against Philadelphia. They are seven games back of the damn Yankees and one game back of the Orioles in the American League East but are two games behind the Twins for the final wild card spot.

Series Schedule / Probable Starters

Thursday at 7:07 pm - Danny Duffy (4-4, 4.03) vs. Marco Estrada (7-6, 3.55)
Friday at 7:07 pm - Johnny Cueto (1st career AL start) vs Drew Hutchison (9-2 , 5.42)
Saturday at 1:07 pm - Yordano Ventura (5-7, 4.86) vs. Mark Buehrle (11-5, 3.29)
Sunday at 1:07 pm - Edinson Volquez (10-5, 3.21) vs. TBA

It also looks like Justin Smoak will need a new uniform number as he wears the #14 that Price has worn with Tampa Bay and Detroit. Again, the important thing is Troy Tulowitzki has #2, not third base coach Luis Rivera, who has switched to #4. ;D

Royals @ Blue Jays - July 30-August 2 | 343 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
scottt - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#306781) #
I saw a guy with a Reyes shirt at Loblaws today.
Smaj - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#306785) #
Time for Edwin to start swinging the bat with consistency. AA is all in & with ground to make up to earn a playoff spot, EE is a big part of this team playing to the post season expectations that now have. Jays really need his bat over the next 60 games for post season AB's to occur.
scottt - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#306789) #
They Jays have a lot of depth at DH.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#306797) #
The Astros are going big.

There are still lots of SPs available. I wonder whether the Jays will snag one more arm. I would also be curious to know what the team's plan is for LF going forward.
BlueJayWay - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:25 PM EDT (#306798) #
This lineup is just ridiculous against lefties.
jerjapan - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#306799) #
Lf has to be Pompey, no?

Found myself looking up the yanks score earlier tonight. Been a long time since scoreboard watching was meaningful!
Mike Green - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#306800) #
Dear John,

I know that you have been presented with the Second Coming of the Big Red Machine, but it isn't necessary to reprise the role of Captain Hook.

Best,

Mike

eudaimon - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#306801) #
I thought taking out Estrada was a good call. Hosmer had hit him very hard the last two times up and is very hot in general. Estrada was nearing 100 pitches, so he was done soon regardless. It's a good time to use Cecil.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#306802) #
Well, he had thrown 92 pitches and had a 5-2 lead.  It'll probably work tonight, but in the long run, it's a losing approach to cycle many relievers through when your starter is pitching well. 
Magpie - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#306803) #
Jeez. The old man's fastball still has some giddyup.
eudaimon - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#306804) #
KC's excellent bullpen may have also contributed to the decision. They're really good, and you want to make sure as much as possible that you're not trying to make up ground against them. If Hosmer hits a homer KC gets dangerously close.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#306805) #
You can't manage scared.
eudaimon - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#306807) #
Sometimes you should, because if you don't you get hit by the truck.
Spifficus - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#306808) #
That cuts both ways - you can't be scared to bring in the relievers you want in the situations you want (Cecil to a lefty, and Hawkins, Sanchez, Osuna in the last 3 innings).
Mike Green - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#306809) #
Oh well.  Dancing with the one you bring, and all that. 
Magpie - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#306810) #
It's also a little bit like pitching on the surface of the sun. It's hot out there, folks.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#306811) #
It hurts having Travis out with an injury, but it's pretty nice having Goins as a temporary replacement. The kid can play defense.
greenfrog - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 11:54 PM EDT (#306815) #
Yankees lose. Jays six back in the division.
Lylemcr - Thursday, July 30 2015 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#306816) #
Latroy is very impressive. A nice vet presence. With he and Sanchez, I feel a lot more confidence in the bullpen.

PeterG - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#306818) #
would be nice if we could talk Latroy out of retirement.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:24 AM EDT (#306821) #
A nice vet presence.

Hawkins, of course, was able to join the team and pitch on Tuesday because he'd taken his passport with him when the Rockies went to Chicago. Veteran savvy!
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:26 AM EDT (#306822) #
Not so sure. Remember Darren Oliver. He was just an average arm in the end.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#306823) #
Any pitcher after 40 is a great pick after June if he's having a good year, but you can't tell what he'll bring come April the next year.

Hawkins had an ERA over 10 in April. Retiring on a high note at 42 would be the smart thing for him to do.
Maybe look into coaching if he can't get baseball out of his head.

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:35 AM EDT (#306824) #
When facing the Royals, it is advisable to wear a titanium cup.  The obvious hazard of a wild Kelvim Herrera fastball is nothing compared to the hidden hazard of a wild Eric Hosmer swipe tag.  It's a war out there, let me tell you.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#306826) #
So any predictions for today? I'm thinking we might be done. hard to sit back once you've gone in on Price, but from the Rotation perspective anyway, I see only Carrasco and Ross as clear upgrades and I'm not sure we have the players to get the deals done.

Who do you have your eye on, Bauxites?
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:58 AM EDT (#306828) #
My eyes are on Devon Travis, Marcus Stroman and Dalton Pompey.  If you're going to dream, go whole hog.  Devon Travis' shoulder will respond to the cortisone shot.  Marcus Stroman's recovery from his knee surgery might not be at Silken Laumann pace but good enough to get him back and contributing in September and October.  Dalton Pompey finally gets the call back.  HDMH.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#306829) #
So any predictions for today?

I'd feel far better trading value for Craig Kimbrel who has 2 more years plus an option, than I do about gifting the Tigers for 2 months of Price. While closers are often easily replaced, he's been pretty special. It would also allow Osuna to move to the rotation next year.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#306830) #
Darren Oliver was awesome to have around though.  And one of the few bright spots on the 2013 season.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:19 AM EDT (#306831) #
Kimbrel or no Kimbrel, no reason Osuna can't still move to the rotation next year.

Rumblings today that Kimbrel may be headed to Boston, which would be kinda neat, considering it keeps him out of the wrong team's hands for this year.

greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#306832) #
I want Travis and Stroman back when they're truly healthy (you don't mess around with shoulder and knee injuries), and Pompey up when he's ready to perform consistently and withstand the pressures of a MLB pennant race.

Pompey might be ready now, or he might not. Lots of people thought he was physically and mentally ready to take over centre field in April, but (as I guessed might be the case) he ended up needing a half-season or more in the minors. I do expect we'll see him in Toronto soon, though, barring a trade for an outfielder.

ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#306833) #
Rumours I'm seeing are Ross to Boston and Kimbrel to Yankees.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#306834) #
"Darren Oliver was awesome to have around though. And one of the few bright spots on the 2013 season."

Bright spot of the 2012 season. The 2013 season, not so much.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#306835) #
If the Yankees acquire Kimbrel, I guess it will mean one more team doing "the six inning start and three relievers for one inning" thing.  "Ned Yost" and "trailblazer" were not words that I ever imagined would be put together in the same sentence absent any irony. 
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#306836) #
Jays haven't given up on Carrasco per Stark.
jester00 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#306837) #
I can't imagine that the Jays have the bullets to get a Carrasco deal done, do they? I mean, what does that deal start with? Sanchez++?
jester00 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#306840) #
Jays not pursuing Carrasco now, as per Stark
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#306841) #
I think last night's strikezone may have taken the lead in the race for "worst called game of the year"!

Chris Conroy's long night

hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#306842) #
Maybe Hutch +?
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#306843) #
I don't know, Hodgie.  It looks to me like Conroy was pretty consistently not giving pitchers the bottom 3" of the strike zone (with one exception), and was giving them the very top of the zone (which many times umpires do not give).  I'd call it a higher strike zone than usual.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:34 AM EDT (#306844) #
Higher strike zone than usual for umpires in general or higher than usual for Conroy?

If this is what he usually calls, both hitters and pitchers/catchers should have been fully aware.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#306846) #
I don't know, hypobole.  It isn't easy to search by umpire, as far as I can tell.  Hmm.

The players didn't seem to be grousing too much, so I'll guess that they weren't too surprised with most of the dubious calls.

jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#306851) #
One of Pompey / Alford, Pentacost and Reid-Foley is still an attractive package, not that I expect another move.

How does our farm system rank now?  I still like the names lower down on our list - the system just has so much intriguing depth - but certainly the upper minors have been cleaned out.  with a pretty good draft this year, i still see us in the 15-20 range with room to grow quickly. 

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#306864) #
Sanchez looks so much better out of the pen.  Fangraphs projects him for 24 innings in relief over the rest of the season with an ERA of 4.32 and a FIP of 4.37.  I'll take the under on those numbers. 
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#306868) #
i'll admit i'm impressed by sanchez' so far in the pen. in fact i think he looks better than last year.

he is starting to look like our longterm closer.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#306869) #
Sanchez looked great last night. But don't forget, he was terrific in his last start before going on the DL with a lat injury. I think it's too early to be writing him off as a starting pitcher. I'm guessing he'll get another shot in the rotation next year.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#306870) #
I still am bullish on him in the rotation. In fact, i can't see him failing.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#306873) #
The Yankees will get a nice boost if they add Kimbrel. Betances/Miller/Kimbrel would be an excellent trio at the back end of the bullpen, and could help the team stave off competitors like the Jays in August/September.

It's interesting. Cashman seems intent on rebuilding his farm system and has become really stingy about trading his top prospects. Despite this, he has his team in first place by a large margin. He isn't making headlines, but he has been doing a good job behind the scenes.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#306877) #
I think Cashman hasn't gotten enough credit over the years because of the massive budget and the willingness to overpay, but the Yankees continue to surprise me.  I guess I need to stop waiting for their 'aging core' to force them to rebuild.
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#306878) #
Add me to the list that Sanchez should be given a shot at starting before labeling him as relief arm.

In fact given the potential lack of SP for next year impending FAs, I'd want both Sanchez and Osuna to be given a chance to develop as SPs.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#306881) #
It's one reason why I didn't mind Norris being traded, with Sanchez and Osuna transitioning to the pen, there was not enough room for another rookie. I would have preferred a controlled arm though, but we'll see what the offseason holds.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#306883) #
Price activated, Travis 15 day DL.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#306885) #
Here's hoping they add an infielder for a reliever before the end of the day as well...a 3 man bench of two of Carrera/Valencia/Smoak/Colabello plus Navarro seems very poorly constructed to me.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#306887) #
The Jays may be trading for Mark Lowe, per MLBTR. Interesting.
rtcaino - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#306888) #
Big game tonight against Cueto. I will be at Osheaga, watching Florence and the Machine, awaiting the result. Hopefully the dog days are over for this team. Allons-y!
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#306891) #
Now that Travis is on the DL, I'd hope that the organization would ensure that the backup middle infielder is not Danny Valencia/Russ Martin again. 
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#306892) #
"I think Cashman hasn't gotten enough credit over the years because of the massive budget and the willingness to overpay, but the Yankees continue to surprise me. I guess I need to stop waiting for their 'aging core' to force them to rebuild."

They're just not that old.

ARod and Beltran are the only real old guys.

Sabathia and Tex are getting up there but not that old.

the rest are prime or younger.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#306893) #
Many reporting "Mark Lowe for prospects".  Seems like a nice BP arm, kinda wish he was left-handed.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#306894) #
Lowe would be a helluva pickup.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#306895) #
Heyman just said 3 minor leaguers...wow.  Here's hoping we aren't talking blue chippers.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#306896) #
Well AA is certainly going all in. He better hope this team makes the ALDS or he's going to be walking.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#306897) #
he has no track record becore this year but man has be been awesome this year.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#306898) #
though they better all be C/D prospects.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#306899) #
If its 3 prospects I can't expect it to be anyone too high on the list. Lowe is a guy with no control and 1 fwar playing in a pitchers ballpark. He better have not overpaid for that.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#306903) #
Assuming you're buying low.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#306905) #
Big arm, & 47 k's and 11 bb's in 36 innings.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#306906) #
First name reported in Lowe deal: Nick Wells.
PeteMoss - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#306907) #
1st name out - Nick Wells.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#306908) #
18 k's and 1 bb in the last month BTW (12 innings).
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#306909) #
Second name: Jake Brentz
D. King - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#306910) #
Mark Lowe's most similar pitcher through age 31 is Vinnie Chulk. Which probably means something.
PeterG - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#306911) #
This is only worthwhile if we can retain Lowe beyond this season. He is scheduled to be FA.
Lefty - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#306912) #
Lowe, 32, has a 1.00 ERA with 47 strikeouts and just 11 walks in 36 innings. I'd say control is not a problem this year. He looked unbeatable at Safeco when we were there last weekend.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#306913) #
Yeah it's rather clear now that AA is just trying to save his job by going all in for this year. It better work for him since this is a bad deal now only brought around because he chose a manager in Gibbons who can't manage his bullpen properly. These guys while not impressive or close now could be in a year or two much higher valued guys or the next breakout stars. Anyway I hope the Jays win and make the playoffs this year, but now I don't have any hope for AA anymore. I want both him and Gibbons gone. He's hurting this club's future now to save his job.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#306914) #
Wells and Brentz make plenty of sense - some hype when drafted, poor results thus far - exactly the sort of arms the Mariners might like to take a flier on.

I was impressed with Lowe when he faced us. 

Who's spot does he take?  Loup has to be on a short rope right now.

Paul D - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#306915) #
Come on, how can you possibly say that this is a bad deal when we don't even know all the players going to Seattle? Maybe they're all guys who need to be added to the 40 and there's no room for them. They're not top prospects. Come on.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#306917) #
Or, he's going all in now because he's got a helluva base to his team that on paper looks like one of the best in baseball with a rotational and BP upgrade, and wants to encourage players like Bautista, Encarnacion and other potential free agents that if they have a good team, they'll take advantage of it and not be worried about dealing prospects to play for a win when they have a real shot.
adrianveidt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#306918) #
Olney reports Jays and Phillies are talking about Ben Revere. Possible leadoff hitter?
PeteMoss - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#306921) #
Much more likely these guys are wash outs than big time prospects this time next year.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#306922) #
They're a 500 team Jevant. He's going all in for a 1 game playoff game. At least he got a pitcher for that game though. (unless you think we can really make up 7 losses on the Yankees in the 2 months)
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#306924) #
"his team that on paper looks like one of the best in baseball "

Yeah too bad winning team on paper doesn't actually count towards the WS. Heck we won the 2012 off season championship remember?
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#306925) #
Right now, the bullpen has Osuna, Sanchez, Hawkins, Schultz, Lowe, Hendriks, Cecil, Loup and Tepera.   You'd hope that this was the first move before the deadline and not the last. I guess they might move Sanchez back to the rotation in a week or two with all of this other talent.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#306926) #
That is certainly what we are cruzin. We're the king of the trades and of being splashy. We're really good at that. Playing baseball not so much.
PeteMoss - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#306928) #
Tepera will be sent down and Loup will become a true LOOGY. They aren't going to move Sanchez to the rotation.
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#306929) #
I don't have a problem with this Lowe move. Nice arm having a nice year and they didn't give up anyone to care about.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#306930) #
6.  And of course they can.  Will they?  No clue, but they absolutely can.  13 games left with Yankees.  They can make up 6 games just on the games they have vs. Yanks.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#306932) #
Kasi, fangraphs has two ways of measuring odds, projection mode and season-to-date statistics mode.  Using the latter, the Blue Jays have, according to fangraphs, a 27% chance of overtaking the Yankees.  Usually when a team is 6 games behind, there are not substantial indicators that they have been "better" than the division leader.  In any event, it is reasonable to try to catch the Yankees. 
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#306933) #
wells and brentz are way down the list. probably not even top 30 in our "mortgaged" system.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#306934) #
Sigh.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#306935) #
And now Ben Revere.
cybercavalier - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#306938) #
We're the king of the trades and of being splashy. We're really good at that. Playing baseball not so much.

Why is that ?
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#306939) #
I feel bad for the fans who won't let themselves enjoy their team having all this talent simply because they'd rather dream on 2nd and 3rd tier prospects.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#306940) #
Tepera will be sent down and Loup will become a true LOOGY. They aren't going to move Sanchez to the rotation.

I suspect that the first part of this is correct.  It still leaves an 8 man pen with a club having 3 starters (Price, Buehrle and Dickey) who regularly throw 200 innings a year.  It seems strange, unless you were going to do something innovative like pair up Hutchison with Hendriks for the remainder of the year. Somehow, I don't think that is happening.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#306941) #
Gibbons I'd point to as a major issue. Guy has never outperformed his pythag as a manager. I still believe this is AA's biggest mistake in bringing that guy back.
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#306942) #
"wells and brentz are way down the list. probably not even top 30 in our "mortgaged" system."

Actually Wells is, but overall yeah not top end prospects, more like lottery tickets. Though, I'm curious who the 3rd player is.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#306943) #
I feel bad for the fans who won't let themselves enjoy their team having all this talent simply because they'd rather dream on 2nd and 3rd tier prospects.

It's remarkable.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#306944) #
Rasmussen is the 3rd "prospect".
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#306945) #
This is getting pretty funny now.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#306946) #
rasmussen the 3rd arm.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#306947) #
Lol and now Revere? AA is really going all in. I mean in for a penny in for a pound I suppose. At this point he might as well sell everything. If the Jays don't make it his job is toast anyway.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#306948) #
Playing baseball not so much.

+100 RD says much differently, but I'm pretty much at the point of "agreeing to disagree".
grjas - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#306949) #
Since AA clearly us all in, this is a good move. Veteran inexpensive arm having a career year, gives them a potentially scary 7 8 and 9 relief core and insurance in case the youngsters flounder or get hurt. Glad A A is finally paying attention to the late inning bullpen with 3 adds in 2 weeks including sanchez
PeteMoss - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#306950) #
Besides Price - you're probably better off having Buerhle and Dickey being pulled after 6 than having them stretched out to 7 or 8 innings considering their ages.

With Price if you wanted to, you go the Milwaukee with CC Sabathia route and just ride him as hard as you can.

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#306951) #
Perhaps a major league reliever is going the other way in the Revere deal...
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#306952) #
"And now Ben Revere."

Oh FFS...why?! This is beyond dumb!!!
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#306953) #
I don't know if we really need Ben Revere but we'll see what the trade is.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#306954) #
Just read in the last 8 months the Jays have traded 11 minor league pitchers.
zeppelinkm - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#306955) #
Kasi, how many times are you going to post the same comment?

All I know is my office is completely abuzz with Jays chatter, for the first time in what feels like forever. People are talking about watching games now. People are asking questions about the Jays.

At some point, you have to believe in your team. AA believes this year. I think the players believe as well. That run differential is no fluke. That record in 1 run losses probably is. Time will tell, but if the luck can start evening out, with Dickey coming into form, a deep lineup, this team could make a serious run. Here's hoping.
rtcaino - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#306956) #
[insert gif of rapper throwing money at camera]

Anxious to see what we gave up for Revere. He would help, but I don't see OF as being a pressing need if Pompey is on the ML roster.

At least we shouldn't have to suffer through much more butchery in LF this season.
Paul D - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#306957) #
Is Revere a FA after this season, or does he have one more year of control?
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#306958) #
I guess AA doesn't think Pompey is ready to be a starting OF for the Jays over the next three months.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#306959) #
he's controlled through 2017
Lylemcr - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#306961) #
"This is beyond dumb".

Sorry Eyore. This is beyond exciting. As a baseball fan, I love it.

We might regret losing Hoffman and Norris, but you can't get anything for nothing. But, you can't get a banner with just top 10 prospects.

Banners fly forever....

eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#306962) #
Revere could be here to play the outfield while Pompey develops. He could be traded again after 2015, depending on how things go of course. It's nice that we have two years of control.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#306963) #
I like Flags in place of Banners, otherwise, I'm on board with the above! ha
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#306965) #
I don't know Zep? How much time is there left today for AA to trade his entire minor league roster depth? About 2 hours right? So probably for 2 more hours. I hope you guys enjoy the 100 loss seasons this will likely buy us down the road, but I guess wild card game pennants fly forever?

And yes I will continue to root for the Jays, I just think we have a manager now who is clearly going all in to save his own job, no matter what it might cost the team in the future.

Go read this article please:

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2015/7/30/9075009/blue-jays-troy-tulowitzki-david-price-trade?_ga=1.125114121.269443499.1399431523
grjas - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#306966) #
Yeah as someone who originally lobbied against a high priced rental, this team is getting really exciting. Sure it may blow up at or before a one game playoff, but after 22 years of mediocrity and a rep as the worst sport city in North America....you know what..I'm all in too.. On the bandwagon.

cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#306967) #
Lylemcr, agree to disagree. They have their LF/CF in AAA, who should've been called up.



Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#306969) #
Or Gibbons doesn't think Pompey is ready to be a ML outfielder in 2015.  Anthopoulos does seem to be building a team that aims to fit Gibbons' talents.  That is understandable, I suppose.

I obviously disagree about Pompey's readiness (as do quite a few other Bauxites), but at least Revere can give you average performance in left-field.  Strangely, Revere has a slight reverse platoon split for his career. 
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#306970) #
Could it be that Revere is outfield depth for the next season or two, freeing up a trade of Pompey or Alford for a starting pitcher like Ross or Carrasco?
PeteMoss - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#306971) #
I'd rather this than a 10 more years of 75-85 wins and no important games in September for umpteenth year.
Nigel - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#306972) #
So Alford or Pompey for Revere? Is AA that crazy right now? All these deals are different in my view. I liked the Tulo deal; I didn't like the Price deal; I'm neutral on the Lowe deal and do not see any point to Revere at any price
eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#306973) #
Revere makes this offense look otherworldly. He's a lock for around .300 BA and .330 OBP with ~40 steals. Behind him are Tulo, Donaldson, Bautista, Encarnacion, Martin, and Pillar. Plus, he's left handed! I am pumped to watch this team play down the stretch.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#306974) #
Sounds like the Revere trade might not be happening? And in no way do you give them Pompey for him. I'm not sure who I'd like to give for Revere, but I just hope the deal falls through anyway.
dalimon5 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#306975) #
For the love of god, Jays are not ALL IN. There's lots of sources out there we you can see the picks they have coming up, the players that they still have in the system, as well as their minor league signings. In case you've missed it, many of these prospects that we're trading away are players that fell to the Jays for various reasons in the draft. The Jays have drafted tremendously well the last couple of years and the best part of all of this is that they still have studs in the farm, low minors especially. By next year we will be at least middle of the pack in terms of farm system after the draft.

Relax, the farm is fine. I think the "naysayers" are hockey fans that don't know any other way as they come over to the baseball side.

Consider this: beginning of last year Daniel Norris had less than half the prospect status he has now, Jeff Hoffman wasn't a blue jay, and wither was Anthony Alford.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#306976) #
One far-flung possibility: the additions of Lowe and Revere free up Sanchez and Pompey for a trade for Carrasco.

Unlikely, I know, but these are unusual times for the Jays...
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#306977) #
One nice thing about Revere is his age (just over 27 years). He's right in his baseball prime. And he'll be a nice pinch-running option late in games in which he's not starting.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#306978) #
With Rasmussen as the third arm, the Lowe deal just looks smart to me from any angle.  Three guys with a mid reliever / loogy ceiling?  no problem.
eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#306979) #
How much control do we have with Lowe? I see he was signed on a minor-league deal just this year.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#306980) #
He is a free agent after this season.
christaylor - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#306981) #
" I'm not sure who I'd like to give for Revere, but I just hope the deal falls through anyway."

So to paraphrase, "I don't like trades."

May I suggest a deep breath and a quick wikipedia read?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#306982) #
Did you like Rajai Davis a lot? Because that is what Revere is. A decent avg, low walks guy who steals bases with mediocre outfield defense. I'm not hearing a lot of clamoring for us to have Davis back again.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#306984) #
Revere gives the Jays a bit more versatility against RHP.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#306986) #
The Cubs acquired Dan Haren for two lesser prospects.  I like that acquisition.  Did I mention how much I like Kyle Schwarber?  I think that he's going to have a better career than Kris Bryant and that's saying something.  And as for the Cubs, they do have this rather large monkey on their backs.  It looks like Epstein is going to help a second city address a deep-rooted problem!
christaylor - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#306987) #
I don't like either a lot but if Pompey isn't going to play, Saunders down indefinitely, I like him a lot more than Cola or the other stuff run out there.Your comments have lapsed into parody -- I suspect you're trolling even, perhaps... but...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law
eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#306988) #
Esmil Rogers to Korea
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#306989) #
Revere's interesting because it really seems to me to be the classic "if you want to like it, you'll find a reason to like it", and "if you don't like it, you'll find a reason not to like it" type.

A Rajai Davis that could hit RHP would be a great thing for this Jays team to have.  If you'd like Michael Saunders back, why not Revere?

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#306990) #
Rosenthal confirms that Revere is a Blue Jay.  No word yet on the players going back.
grjas - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#306991) #
Revere is:
. A LH bat
. A base stealer
. A top of the lineup bat
. A relief from the joke in left field
. Insurance against more injuries and poor performance in the outfield one of which has impacted 3 of the 4 outfielders we started the year with

Since AA was already going for it. I hoped he'd improve their two weaker areas today. He did.
cybercavalier - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#306992) #
Did you like Rajai Davis a lot? Because that is what Revere is.

How about aged 28-29 J. B. Shuck of the White Sox ? He can play more corner OF than CF but his main asset is his getting on-base with walks but he is not a speedster. Because his last transaction was waiver claim by the White Sox, so swapping him with Ezequiel Carrera would suffice ? According to Wikipedia, Shuck is primarily a left fielder.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#306993) #
After a variety of career infielders doing their best to play LF all year, even I would welcome Rajai Davis back.
Jdog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#306994) #
Kasi,

Stay away from the BA hot prospect sheet issued today. A few ex jays heating up in the minors.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#306995) #
Why would you think I'm trolling? And no reason to be insulting with links like that. Go read BBB and posters like Pikachu and Mjww there and their reactions to the trades today. Makes my reactions look calm and collected. Anyway the Revere trade is now official, just have to find out who we traded him for. At least we do have him under control for next year. I'd have to think its someone like Alford or Pompey though.
cybercavalier - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#306996) #
Since AA was already going for it. I hoped he'd improve their two weaker areas today. He did.

Very fine, How about including Ezequiel Carrera the other way to the Phillies ?
Spifficus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#306998) #
Hah! Well played, christaylor.

Also, this isn't about liking or not liking a player, Kasi. Rajai has his uses, and so does Revere. Unlike Davis, defense is one of them for Ben. He's quite good in left, not mediocre. It's his CF defense that's mediocre. Davis, on the other hand... Mediocre feels kind no matter where you put him. Are either men as good as their speed could allow? No, but that's not what's important.

And, man, I know it's generally volitile due to babip, but batting average gets dismissed way too much. It's the single biggest contributed to OBP for any non-extreme ballplayer, and is well over half for slugging for most as well. In spite of being a singles hitting hacker, he has an above average OBP and a near avg SLG. He's hit .300 in every year but one, and is at .298 now. 'Decent' is rather dismissive of what he can do.
mathesond - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#306999) #
Esmil Rogers to Korea

Great trade! Who'd we get?
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#307000) #
"Did you like Rajai Davis a lot? Because that is what Revere is. A decent avg, low walks guy who steals bases with mediocre outfield defense. I'm not hearing a lot of clamoring for us to have Davis back again."

sigh.

give it a rest if you're actually needing to be dishonest just to crap on the team.

Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#307001) #
A little guy who can run fast - sounds like a guy who'd like plastic grass. Maybe I should check his splits.
eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#307002) #
BA is also under-rated because a base hit can score a runner from second while a walk does not.

Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#307003) #
Seems like Revere may have Rajai's arm, but better routes/glove.  And let's be real - pretty sure Rajai's routes/glove would be an upgrade on Valencia/Carrera/Colabello.
Lylemcr - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#307004) #
I like Rajai Davis. I think he is a great 4th outfielder.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#307005) #
All right, Anthopoulos. Let's see what you can get for Dion Phaneuf.
Paul D - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#307006) #
I'd have to think its someone like Alford or Pompey though.

I think this is extremely unlikely, but would join you in condemnation of the trade if that were true. In meantime, they've acquired a guy who looks like he's about a 2 WAR player over the course of a season. That has value.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#307007) #
AA has clearly pushed all his chips in to win this year. For me for this to be a win this team needs to play an actual series. I will be rooting for them and it does make sense that if they're paying for rentals they might as well pay more for rentals to up their chances of getting there. No point in going halfway. So I agree with that now that the ball has been rolling that they just add as much as they can to try and guarantee it. Heck if they can get another SP in the next 2 hours than go for it and they can send Hutch down to try and figure things out.

I fear Gibbons might not be good enough for the job, but I really really hope they make it. I do agree that a AL pennant flag (not even a WS flag) would make this all worth it. I just don't think it was the right way to go but maybe Marc Hulet was right in that this was forced by the trades of 2013. I think if he had stood pat there and built from within we'd be a stronger team today. My biggest worry is we miss the wild card or lose in the wild card and we end up dismantling this all. It will be an exciting two months though. Would be nice to put a scare into the Yankees.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#307008) #
Well, it turns out Revere only has 26 career ABs on artificial turf (all at the RC, as it turns out.) He's done OK, if you like .423 hitters.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#307009) #
27yr old Revere is about to pass 34yr old Davis in career WAR this year.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#307010) #
Revere fills Reyes' niche.  For what it's worth, he is a poorer leadoff choice than several players on the team but Gibbons is a conventional manager who probably finds it painful to have a powerful hitter in the leadoff slot.  It isn't a big deal, of course. 
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#307011) #
BA is not underrated, but maybe singles are. wOBA treats everything by its worth, with singles being worth more than a BB.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#307012) #
"Gibbons is a conventional manager "

which is why both donaldson and tulowitzki have hit leadoff for the first time in their careers this year. and why a slugger like donaldson has been in the 2 hole the rest of the time. because it's conventional.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#307013) #
"Go read BBB and posters like Pikachu and Mjww"

If you are going to make an appeal to authority, two posters at Blue Bird Banter would seem to be an odd choice.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#307014) #
uglyone Davis is actually better than you think. He has both a career WRC+ and WOBA+ better than Revere. He doesn't hit for quite as high an average, but he's got a bit better walk%, power and offensive skillset than Revere. Davis has actually career wise been plus war with his bat. Revere a definite negative but Revere is a better defender. I think its a pretty close comparison tbh.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#307016) #
"I don't know, Hodgie. It looks to me like Conroy was pretty consistently not giving pitchers the bottom 3" of the strike zone (with one exception)"

I suppose if you don't mind an umpire deciding to enforce his own strike zone then I can agree with you Mike, the calls he also missed another 3" up notwithstanding. Must be the idealist in me that wants to see the zone called as it is defined.

Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#307017) #
both donaldson and tulowitzki have hit leadoff for the first time in their careers this year

Hey! Tulowitzki leading off was my idea. Anyway, I didn't think either move was Gibbons being unconventional, so much as Gibbons having no other options. (He wasn't going to bat Ryan Goins leadoff.)

On the other hand, he did try batting Bautista second for a big chunk of the 2013 season.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#307018) #
Seemed more of an appeal to "I'm not as crazy/loud/nuts as those guys", rather than "authority", but I had a similar thought.

My hope would be that people could have a nice rational discourse around here, while sharing their common interest: the love of the Blue Jays.  There's certainly a wide variety of ways to express that, but constantly downing on the team and their management seems like a weird course of expression to me.

hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#307019) #
At the plate and on the bases, Reyes is a good comp for Revere.
Super Bluto - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#307020) #
Does the Revere trade happen if Travis doesn't go down? Is it more serious than we think?
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#307021) #
Thing is, doesn't matter what we want for a strike zone. It's the players that matter. If he is consistent to his scouting report, players are OK with it.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#307022) #
hyperbole are you sure on that? Revere career wOBA/wrc+ .298/86, Davis career: .309/90 , Reyes: .335/106. Which of these numbers is not like the others?
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#307023) #
"Anyway, I didn't think either move was Gibbons being unconventional, so much as Gibbons having no other options. (He wasn't going to bat Ryan Goins leadoff.)"

Carrera and Pillar would both have been "conventional" options for the top of the lineup imo.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#307024) #
I think Revere is linked to a Pompey deal. Hold your hats.
adrianveidt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#307025) #
They don't need Pompey anymore. They could deal him for more player assets this season.
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#307026) #
"Does the Revere trade happen if Travis doesn't go down? Is it more serious than we think?"

Does the Price trade happen if Stroman doesn't go down. Does AA make any of these trades if he was guaranteed to be here for the long haul, we'll probably never know the answers.

But to your second part, yes I think it's significant since the Blue Jays typically like to drag it out and go day to day in order to avoid DL'ing a guy. And the fact it seems be the similar is not exactly the same injury that caused him to be DL'ed the first time.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#307027) #
"Thing is, doesn't matter what we want for a strike zone. It's the players that matter."

And there is the rub, they were fine with it last night because it lead to elevated pitches and home runs. Pretty sure a groundball pitcher would have taken major issue with losing a full 3" off the bottom of the zone last night.

cybercavalier - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#307028) #
About Pompey, give him sometime to develop.
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#307029) #
"Carrera and Pillar would both have been "conventional""

Ugh Pillar with his .300 OBP wouldn't exactly be conventional
Paul D - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#307030) #
Doubront to the As for cash.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#307031) #
Kasi, not talking career re: Reyes/Revere, talking the present/past couple of seasons.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#307033) #
revere's career numbers are lower because he started younger.

age 22: 12wrc+
age 23: 70wrc+
age 24: 86wrc+
age 25: 93wrc+
age 26: 92wrc+
age 27: 97wrc+

over the last 3yrs davis (96wrc+) and revere (94wrc+) have had similar bats overall but only because davis gets protected much more vRHP becausd of his huge splits (140/70) while revere's splits are small (103/90).

revere is a fulltime player with a slightly below average bat, with plus speed and defense. rajai is a platoon player with poor defense.

what's more is that revere is actually legit good in terms of avg (.303 last 3yrs) and obp (.331), while these are weaknesses for rajai (.270/.315).

really, revere is good at everything except for one thing - he has absolutely, positively, ZERO power.

but with our lineup, do we need him to?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#307034) #
Carrera and Pillar would both have been "conventional" options for the top of the lineup imo.

You're right, although it wasn't really an option for him this particular time. It was mid-May, C.J. Wilson was the pitcher (so much for Carrera) and Pillar was struggling (5-38). So Gibbons just moved everyone up a spot (Donaldson-Bautista-Encarnacion batting 1-2-3) - they scored 10 runs, and he ran with it for a couple of days.

On the whole, Gibbons has indeed been much more willing to try stuff like that with his batting order than he was during his first tour. I always wondered why he never tried Overbay in the 2 hole - the only real reason was because Overbay was a big first baseman without a lot of speed. This time around - he might do it. Not that it's all that big a deal, of course.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#307035) #
"Ugh Pillar with his .300 OBP wouldn't exactly be conventional"

conventional cares not for obp.

only for batting average and stolen bases.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#307036) #
Hmm Cordero and Tirado for Revere so we still have Pompey. Don't really know enough about Cordero to comment on the trade.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#307037) #
Looks like it's Alberto Tirado and Jimmy Cordero for Revere.
Jevant - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#307039) #
Tirado was 17th on Jays prospect list on Fangraphs going into year.  Cordero not ranked.
finch - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#307040) #
With all the prospects AA has traded, we still have enough talent to land 7 or 8 in the top 150. This list via MLB Pipeline:

1. Dalton Pompey
2. Jon Harris
3. Anthony Alford
4. Sean Reid-Foley
5. Max Pentecost
6. Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
7. Richard Urena
8. Rowdy Tellez

That's still a pretty decent among of prospects to have in the Top 150, potentially. But clearly they are hitter heavy now, which is a change. No wonder AA has put a premium on drafting arms. Was this his vision all along?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#307041) #
Hmm. Maybe I slept through 2007. That was John Gibbons batting Overbay second 51 times.
Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#307042) #
Cordero and Tirado are both relievers that are walking 5 per 9 this year. Tirado at least is young. Great trade if true, even if I am dying to see Pompey in Toronto.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#307043) #
tirado and cordero.

nice.
Nigel - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307044) #
Agreed, if that is the cost of this then that is a great trade for Revere, even it's a trade that I really don't see the point in (I would have put Pompey in LF weeks ago).
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307045) #
Finch - and guys like hollon jansen borucki perdomo espada could get tucked in right behind those guys very soon.
Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307046) #
A Smoak sighting! He bats 5th and plays first base, EE back at DH. Carrera bats 7th and plays 7 before packing his bag for Buffalo.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307047) #
Today's action is basically Lowe and Revere for Warm Bodies, then. Although I always thought Rasmussen might be a useful bullpen guy, even if he is somewhat vertically challenged.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307048) #
Who is Jimmy Cordero?

I guess it's a good thing that I have to ask. OK, I looked him up.  He's a 23 year old reliever who has walked 14 and struck out 22 in 24 innings in double A.  I promise to pay more attention next time.

JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#307049) #
Saw Tirado pitch a little last year and dropped him from my dynasty league immediately. The Baseball Prospectus guys have loved him for years, big arm, but I didn't see it.

Don't know much about the other fella. Jays have now moved 13 minor league pitchers in the past 8 months, haha.

Overall, I am very excited with all of the moves.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307050) #
yup, that's a good deal.  Cordero can hit 100, but he's 24 in october and getting his first taste of AA, while continuing to walk everyone in sight. 

Tirado I like as a young A ball arm, but he looks like a set-up man at best, and walks way too many guys. 

Revere is controllable and reasonably priced.  Good move.



Nigel - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307051) #
I do think that Wells is something other than a warm body - but he is a mile from Toronto
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307052) #
And yes, if it's Tirado and Cordero for Revere, I'll give it two thumbs up. 
finch - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307053) #
uglyone - I totally agree. And they have some intriguing Latin players as well. I've seen Hollon pitch twice now...he's becoming a favourite of mine! Dude is legit.
Dave Till - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#307054) #
Wow, that's a lot of roster movement.

I don't quite know what to think about Lowe. Last year, he had a 5.62 ERA in triple-A Columbus. This year, he has a 1.00 ERA in Seattle. Pitching is unpredictable.

Revere is better than Davis - his OBP is .334, which is higher than anything Davis has produced this decade.

By the way, for those of you who were wondering when the Chris Colabello Regression [tm] would happen:

- 2014: .229 BA, .282 OBP, .380 SLG
- July 2015: .224 BA, .286 OBP, .429 SLG

That would be now.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#307055) #
JB21 - the prospector love for Labourt and Tirado always confounded me. throwing hard is not enough.
Paul D - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#307056) #
Although I always thought Rasmussen might be a useful bullpen guy, even if he is somewhat vertically challenged.

I think this is fair, but it also seems clear that this organization didn't have a lot of belief in his ability to get big league hitters our, or he'd have been tried on the big club this year.

uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#307057) #
nigel - agreed on wells. he looks like a sleeper.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#307058) #
Saw Tirado pitch a little last year and dropped him from my dynasty league immediately.

LOL! (I really did.)

I guess that's the fan equivalent of putting your money where your mouth is!
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#307059) #
I think this trade is fine. I'm curious if AA is going to try for one more SP. I think from what I've been reading that SD is being very stingy in the deals they're making, which is odd considering their offseason was so active.
Nigel - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#307062) #
I understand the prospect love on Labourt not on Tirado. I saw Tirado pitch once and really did not see a lot other than a 94 fastball without a ton of swing and miss to it. All I can say is that Labourt's stuff is totally eye-catching. His stuff was more impressive than Castro last year in Vancouver (although Castro wasn't throwing 98 last year). You watch Labourt throw 3 or 4 fastballs at 96 and each time you say to yourself that can't have been that hard its just so effortless from Labourt. I totally agree though that the control is awful and he's of zero use if that doesn't improve. Labourt has the kind of stuff that causes scouts from different organizations at a game to look at each other with a bit of a goofy grin on their face. That doesn't happen that often (at least not at short season high A).
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#307063) #
Those look like good trades. 4 guys that might possibly maybe help one day for 2 guys that can help right now.
Revere is not a free agent until 2018. I guess AA needed a lead off hitter.

With a name like that we might be able to flip him to Boston one day.

Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#307064) #
Got some roster decisions to make. Obviously one reliever is going down, maybe two if Carrera stays and they go back to a seven man pen. (Hey - they just added David Price. Whaddya need eight relievers for?) Tepera and Schultz are the obvious guys, although if I were Aaron Loup I'd be holding my breath just a little.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#307065) #
p.s. i highly doubt revere will be our leadoff hitter even now, let alone when we're healthy.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#307066) #
According to Arash Madani, Gibbons says Revere will be used in a platoon role and hit ninth.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#307067) #
Amazingly, the Phillies tossed in some cash with Revere.  Change my rating from two thumbs up to two thumbs up with a wink. 
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#307068) #
Roster my guess:

SP Price
SP Buehrle
SP Dickey
SP Estrada
SP Hutchison

RP Osuna
RP Sanchez
RP Cecil
RP Lowe
RP Hawkins
RP Hendriks
RP Loup


1. SS Tulowitzki
2. 3B Donaldson
3. RF Bautista
4. DH Encarnacion
5. 1B Smoak
6. C Martin
7. 2B Travis
8. CF Pillar
9. LF Revere

B. UT Colabello
B. OF Valencia
B. IF Goins
B. C Navarro

and i guess Kawasaki gets called up to fill in for Travis now.


So that means bye to Schultz, Tepera, Carrera.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#307069) #
actually Tolleson probably gets the call.
eudaimon - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#307070) #
We have some roster decisions to make, but you really have to feel for our affiliates. They've lost like 11 guys in less than a week.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#307071) #
We're looking at a Valencia/Revere platoon in LF (with Revere as the defensive caddy) and a Colabello/Smoak platoon at 1B (with Smoak as the defensive caddy).

Valencia is effectively the backup at three infield positions, which could lead to some interesting stuff down the road...
cruzin - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#307072) #
"Amazingly, the Phillies tossed in some cash with Revere. Change my rating from two thumbs up to two thumbs up with a wink."

Gillick's going away present to Beeston? lol
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#307073) #
All 3 have options remaining, correct?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#307075) #
Price is already on the roster, with Travis on the DL. Tolleson for Carrera does make a lot of sense.
Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#307076) #
I'd absolutely send Loup down (along with Tepera), assuming he'd still qualify for the playoff roster if he's brought back as a September call-up. The playoff bullpen can be constructed based on who looks good/healthy at the end of the year, and who the opponent is.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#307077) #
Anthopoulos' live presser now on Ch. 22
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#307078) #
Giving up a lot of prospects these days, but I can't quibble on the last one. At least you're getting something valuable back for Tirado and Cordero.

Not a big cost, but Wells and Brentz is a high price to pay for 15 innings of relief help. I'm not convinced that Lowe will add much value over Schultz.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#307079) #
I agree with Jonny, I think it is likely to be Loup. Gibbons really seems to like Schultz and for whatever reason, Loup is HR/FB cursed this season. Plus he still has Hawkins and Cecil at his disposal.
Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#307080) #
"I'm not convinced that Lowe will add much value over Schultz."

It's about depth. Would be very surprising to play out the rest of the season with no pitcher injuries.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#307081) #
loup has still killed lefties this year. as the 2nd lefty LOOGY at the bottom of the pen he should be a better asset than yet another righty.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#307082) #
"actually Tolleson probably gets the call."

Tolleson hasn't played in a month and is on the "Temporary Inactive List"
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#307083) #
Loup has still killed lefties this year

Alas, Gibbons has never figured that out. Anyway, perhaps the best news today is the Blue Jays are not going to have to deal with Craig Kimbrel at any time this year.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#307084) #
"It's about depth. Would be very surprising to play out the rest of the season with no pitcher injuries."

Without him, we'd still have two of Tepera/Delabar/Schultz/Loup in AAA.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#307085) #
Ben Revere is a helluva nine hitter.  I would have preferred Pompey for aesthetic reasons as much as anything- it's nice to mix in a young player or two with the prime age players and veterans- as well as a subjective belief that he is going to be better than any reasonable projection.  Nonetheless, it's a completely different situation.

This looks to me to be a great club.  Let's see them perform like it for 60 games.

jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#307086) #
Kawasaki would be the right move for IF depth. He's on the 40 man, his OBP is up to .368 after some initial struggles and he'd add to the mojo in the clubhouse right now.

Santiago was released, Tolleson is inactive (anyone know why) and Jonathan Diaz is Jonathan Diaz. 

I hope it's Loup going down in the pen.  of the righties, who's best on LH hitting? 

JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#307087) #
Hawkins is a RHP
Chuck - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#307088) #
Mariners are now officially Happless. Argh matey, he's now a Pirate.
Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#307089) #
The biggest problem with Loup is that Gibbons has no comprehension that he's a LOOGY. None. Blue Jay pitchers as a staff have faced 43% left-handed batters this year. Loup has faced 40% left-handed batters.

The second-biggest problem with Loup is that, contrary to ugly's comment, he has not killed lefties this year. .698 OPS against LHB, compared to league-average of .708 OPS against LHB (Blue Jay staff .729 OPS vs LHB).
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#307090) #
Diaz probably hits LHP better than Kawasaki and is probably a better defensive second baseman.  He would get my nod. 
Chuck - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#307091) #
How do roster moves work when you make trades? Are the Jays duty bound NOW to make room for Lowe and Revere even though neither will be in Toronto for tonight's game? I ask because Carrera is in the lineup tonight and I would presume he's AAA bound once Revere arrives.

At this moment in time, is Revere both NOT on the Phillies roster and NOT on the Blue Jays roster, but in some netherworld in between? Does he see dead people?

uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#307092) #
RP Siera

1. Sanchez 0.84
2. Lowe 2.25
3. Loup 2.30
4. Hendriks 2.38
5. Hawkins 2.50
6. Osuna 2.60
7. Cecil 2.75

RP xfip-

1. Sanchez 34
2. Lowe 61
3. Hendriks 68
4. Loup 71
5. Hawkins 75
6. Cecil 80
7. Osuna 84

RP fip-

1. Sanchez 10
2. Lowe 48
3. Hendriks 53
4. Osuna 55
5. Hawkins 84
6. Cecil 90
7. Loup 101

Era-

1. Sanchez 0
2. Lowe 26
3. Osuna 54
4. Hendriks 66
5. Hawkins 76
6. Cecil 100
7. Loup 129


this really should be an excellent bullpen.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#307093) #
Loup vs. LHP 2015 is a case of OPS  reflecting quite a bit of bad luck.  Against lefties, he has struck out 11 batters per 9IP and literally not walked anybody although he has hit 4 batters among the 57 he has faced.  On balls in play, he has 69% ground balls and only 10% of the balls in total were hit hard.  He has not allowed a home run against a lefty all season (unsurprisingly). 

You want him on the roster.

uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#307094) #
"The second-biggest problem with Loup is that, contrary to ugly's comment, he has not killed lefties this year. .698 OPS against LHB, compared to league-average of .708 OPS against LHB (Blue Jay staff .729 OPS vs LHB)."

interesting point but i'm not sure how to compare that to the fact that his line vs lefties this year is 1.46era/1.62fip/1.96xfip.
85bluejay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#307095) #
I think that recent acquisition Ty Kelly who can play multiple positions including 2B and is on the 40 man roster will get the call.

Heard Gibbons earlier on the radio today, was asked about a possible Pompey callup - his answer left the me impression that unless of an injury, Pompey not likely to get the call before Sept. - maybe there's more of a problem with Pompey than we know - attitude?

Really liked the Lowe & Revere pickup today.
pubster - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#307096) #
How would ERA be calculated as a split stat?

For example if Loup pitched to 4 batters (Righty, Lefty, Righty, Lefty) and goes Single, Out, Out, Out for no runs scored. What would his ERA be for RHP for that outing?
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#307097) #
"Hawkins is a RHP"

And that brain cramp was brought to you by not enough sleep and/or caffeine. Thanks JB21.

Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#307098) #
Speaking of LaTroy. An earlier comment:

Retiring on a high note at 42 would be the smart thing for him to do. Maybe look into coaching if he can't get baseball out of his head.

He's already on record as saying he's definitely retiring at the end of the year, and he's definitely not interested in coaching, saying words to the effect that if he wants to stay around the game he might as well just keep pitching.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#307099) #
The thing with Loup is, how much longer do you wait for his luck to turn? His situation in many ways has mirrored the team's. Statistics and analysis scream that he should have performed better, but reality has painted a different picture. Clearly Anthopoulos was not willing to wait another 60 games for the team's fortunes to regress to the positive so I have a tough time imagining that Loup will be given the chance.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#307100) #
pubster i have no idea.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#307101) #
Jays get Price, Yankees lose Pineda. Is that what they call a Win-Win?
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#307102) #
I think he just prefers Revere at this point in their careers. I don't think we'll see Pompey or Saunders before September 1.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#307103) #
The thing with Loup is, how much longer do you wait for his luck to turn? His situation in many ways has mirrored the team's. Statistics and analysis scream that he should have performed better, but reality has painted a different picture. Clearly Anthopoulos was not willing to wait another 60 games for the team's fortunes to regress to the positive so I have a tough time imagining that Loup will be given the chance.

Presumably it will be easier for Gibbons to use Loup in a more limited role with all of the additional resources he has in the pen.  Loup has a long-term record of decent success, and the club can use a second left-hander in the pen.  It would be foolish to send him down.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#307104) #
At this moment in time, is Revere both NOT on the Phillies roster and NOT on the Blue Jays roster, but in some netherworld in between?

I'm not sure anymore, but I don't think Toronto has to add him until he actually reports to the club. I think the player has 48 hours to do that. So I guess he's in the netherworld for now.
Chuck - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#307105) #
Presumably it will be easier for Gibbons to use Loup in a more limited role

I agree with this. Gibbons must surely be in a position now where he trusts all his RH relievers, though perhaps the Aussie ones just for lower leverage innings.

Jonny German - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#307106) #
Thanks for the insight on Loup's luck, Mike. I didn't look that closely.

What Is More Foolish?
Loup in Buffalo, or an 8-man pen in Toronto?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#307107) #
More roster stuff. Lowe and Revere have been added to the 40 man, but not the active roster. (As has Rasmussen in Seattle.) Price is already on the active roster.
Four Seamer - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#307108) #

Gibbons must surely be in a position now where he trusts all his RH relievers, though perhaps the Aussie ones just for lower leverage innings.

I guess Loup fits here too, but I say he comes at hitters sidearm, rather than from Down Under.

scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#307110) #
When a player on one team's 40-man roster is traded to another team, he is automatically placed on the other team's 40-roster.  They don't have to be added to the 25-roster right away. That's probably similar to being DFA.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#307111) #
An 8 man pen is foolish, too.  They should probably send Schultz down.  I guess that's the point of the Lowe and Hawkins acquisitions- they are (I suppose) a little better than Schultz and fill the same niche.

You've got Osuna, Sanchez, Hawkins and Lowe to handle medium and high leverage RH relief, and Hendriks to be a long guy.  The logical thing is two LHPs.  With all of the pitching traded away, it's very handy to have Schultz in Buffalo ready in case of injury to one of the RHPs. 

scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#307112) #
this really should be an excellent bullpen.

It doesn't look much like the one the Jays started the year with, that's for sure.
Cecil goes from closer to low pressure guy. Same with Loup if they choose to keep him.
That just leave Osuna from middle inning guy to setup man.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#307113) #
price goes monday.

who starts sunday?
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#307114) #
Dickey I think, just up a day.
christaylor - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#307115) #
Travis Snider DFA by Os.

Kind of sad really... we'll never know what he might have been if he wasn't rushed and spent all that time in the crazy environment of the PCL.

Probably exactly what he was, but maybe, if you squint...
China fan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#307117) #
"....the Revere trade is now official, just have to find out who we traded him for...  I'd have to think its someone like Alford or Pompey....."

That's the third time you've been completely wrong in your predictions of trade disasters this week.  I suspect you're equally wrong in your prediction that Anthopoulos is fired at the end of the season.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#307118) #
CF you can stop your vendetta here. I was not the only one to post that Pompey might be involved. I'm glad we got him for a lesser group of prospects. And I only said he'd get fired if we missed the playoffs. If we make it I think he'll be around.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#307119) #
Presumably it will be easier for Gibbons to use Loup in a more limited role with all of the additional resources he has in the pen.

Not saying what they should do Mike, but rather what I speculate they will do based on public statements and results. Also, there is this; since going 9 straight clean appearances, Loup has had two appearances in his last 15 where he did not allow a baserunner. Those 15 appearances total 9 1/3 innings. The only more limited role appears to be the one and done LOOGY.

China fan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#307122) #
"....I only said he'd get fired if we missed the playoffs...."

You actually said this:  "I hope you guys enjoy the 100 loss seasons this will likely buy us down the road."

Your vendetta is not with me.  It's with Anthopoulos and Gibbons.  You're flailing away at them about 20 times per thread.
CeeBee - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#307123) #
The trades were interesting. -thumbs up-
This thread is down right entertaining.
85bluejay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#307124) #
My biggest deadline surprise - the Yankees were quiet, held on to their prospects & didn't use their finances like last year.
Hodgie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#307125) #
Just to remind us that we actually do have a prospect or two left in the system, Kiley McDaniel reports in from Dunedin..

"Blue Jays High-A RHP Connor Green even better than advertised. Thru 2, he's been 92-96 w/ above avg life, smooth delivery/arm, SP traits

uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#307126) #
2014-15

1. SS T.Tulowitzki (30): 735pa, 142wrc+, 6.6war, 5.8war/650
2. 3B J.Donaldson (29): 1142pa, 135wrc+, 11.6war, 6.6war/650
3. RF J.Bautista (34): 1086pa, 149wrc+, 8.7war, 5.2war/650
4. DH E.Encarnacion (32): 942pa, 135wrc+, 4.6war, 3.2war/650
5. C R.Martin (32): 808pa, 135wrc+, 8.0war, 6.4war/650
6. 2B D.Travis (24): 238pa, 137wrc+, 2.4war, 6.6war/650
7. LF Saunders (28): 299pa, 116wrc+, 1.9war, 4.1war/650
8. 1B J.Smoak (28): 448pa, 93wrc+, 0.1war, 0.2war/650
9. CF K.Pillar (26): 524pa, 89wrc+, 2.7war, 3.4war/650

B. UT D.Valencia (30): 457pa, 102wrc+, 1.3war, 1.9war/650
B. OF B.Revere (27): 1014pa, 94wrc+, 3.8war, 2.4war/650
B. IF R.Goins (27): 418pa, 43wrc+, -0.9war, -1.4war/650
B. C D.Navarro (31): 638pa, 93wrc+, 2.2war, 2.2war/650

B. UT C.Colabello (31): 473pa, 110wrc+, -1.1war, -1.5war/650
B. OF E.Carrera (27): 232pa, 85wrc+, 0.4war, 1.1war/650
B. IF M.Kawasaki (34): 291pa, 78wrc+, 0.4war, 0.9war/650
B. C J.Thole (28): 179pa, 75wrc+, 0.0war, 0.0war/650

B. OF D.Pompey (22): 134pa, 77wrc+, 0.2war, 1.0war/650



SP LH D.Price (29): 394.1ip, 79era-, 9.6war, 5.6war/32gs
SP RH M.Stroman (24): 120.1ip, 84era-, 3.0war, 4.8war/32gs
SP LH M.Buehrle (36): 336.0ip, 84era-, 4.9war, 3.0war/32gs
SP RH R.Dickey (40): 352.2ip, 99era-, 2.4war, 1.4war/32gs
SP RH D.Hutchison (24): 292.2ip, 121era-, 3.7war, 2.3war/32gs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SP RH M.Estrada (31): 201.0ip, 115era-, 0.6war, 0.6war/32gs
SP RH A.Sanchez (22): 66.0ip, 88era-, -0.1war, -0.3war/32gs


RP RH R.Osuna (20): 45.1ip, 54era-, 1.3war, 1.9war/65ip
RP RH L.Hendriks (26): 51.1ip, 70era-, 1.2war, 1.5war/65ip
RP RH A.Sanchez (22): 36.0ip, 25era-, 0.7war, 1.3war/65ip
RP RH M.Lowe (32): 43.0ip, 39era-, 0.8war, 1.2war/65ip
RP LH B.Cecil (28): 87.0ip, 81era-, 1.4war, 1.1war/65ip
RP RH L.Hawkins (42): 78.2ip, 77era-, 0.8war, 0.7war/65ip
RP LH A.Loup (27): 103.1ip, 96era-, 0.3war, 0.2war/65ip
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RP RH M.Estrada (31): 54.1ip, 66era-, 0.6war, 0.7war/65ip
RP RH B.Schultz (29): 36.0ip, 89era-, 0.0war, 0.0war/65ip
RP RH R.Tepera (27): 23.2ip, 57era-, -0.1war, -0.3war/65ip
RP RH S.Delabar (31): 52.2ip, 103era-, -0.4war, -0.5war/65ip
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#307127) #
What I meant about vendetta is that you keep making things personal with me. I have not with you so I'd prefer you return the favor. And true I do have a vendetta of sorts with Gibbons (and to a lesser degree AA). I don't think they've done a good job and their record to date supports that. How many years support do you think I should give them? Winning the "best trade award" or "best collection of power hitters" award is not the results I want as a Blue Jays fan.

You seem to conflict my views on the two people managing this franchise with the franchise itself. I like most people here love the Jays and want them to win the world series or at least win a playoff series. I just don't think the two people in charge are doing a good job of getting us there. I also think like the articles that have been written by Cameron, Hulet and Bisbee that this current move has a high chance of backfiring. So yes AA has gone all in and if we make the playoff I'll be happy. If he doesn't I expect them to be held accountable for 6 years of no success. I don't see why that is too hard to ask. In the last 6 years every team in our division has had significant playoff success. Why can't we?
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#307130) #
So is the plan to go with the 8 man bullpen and no second baseman? Would it not be a good idea to be able to pinch hit for Ryan Goins?
grjas - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#307131) #
"My biggest deadline surprise - the Yankees were quiet, held on to their prospects & didn't use their finances like last year."

Ny times headline says " blue jays latest deal amplifies Yankees silence"

God i love it. Now if they would actually lose a few games...
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#307134) #
David Price in the dugout with a Tim Horton's coffee. Welcome to the 6.
hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#307135) #
"I hope you guys enjoy the 100 loss seasons this will likely buy us down the road."

I don't think most people realize this but tanking is becoming a better strategy all the time, and will be even more so if/when they institute an international draft.

In the past, players fell due to cost - I remember the Tigers grabbing guys like Porcello and Castellanos much lower than they were ranked because they were willing to pay bonuses other teams wouldn't/couldn't.

The thing is to be really bad, like Houston for a few years, so you have the largest possible pool to work with to build your farm , over and above the selloff of major league talent that kickstarts the farm buildup..

Mediocrity is the worst. For all the Jays lack of success, they haven't picked Top 3 since Augie Schmidt in 1982, Top 5 since Vernon Wells in 1997.

Give me feast and famine rather than the same slop year after year.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#307136) #
i don't think picking high in the MLB draft is quite as important as the other three sports, but yeah that could be a boon if it comes to that. Good point. Also if we got to that point we'd likely be sellers in one of these deadlines and recoup that way too.
Eephus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#307137) #
Weird seeing Cueto in blue. You could tell he was a little nervous in that first inning by how fidgety and jumpy he seemed to be. Classic Reds Cueto was a cucumber on the Coolness scale. I think even the umpire at the end was warning him about quick pitching.

Lets hope Good Hutch shows up here in the next few innings. 
Four Seamer - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#307140) #
In all my excitement about these trades, I forgot that Drew Hutchison was still part of the starting rotation. Maybe AA forgot too.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#307144) #
Travis Snider DFA by Os.

No, he's still on their bench. Chris Parmalee was DFA'd.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:14 PM EDT (#307145) #
Do you remember Cueto in the playoffs against Pittsburgh? I don't know if I've ever seen a pitcher more rattled on the mound.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#307146) #
Interesting exchange last inning with Cueto and Donaldson. Looked like Cueto thought he caught Donaldson relaying signs.
Spifficus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#307147) #

In all my excitement about these trades, I forgot that Drew Hutchison was still part of the starting rotation. Maybe AA forgot too.

I just figured that's what all the bullpen upgrades had in mind. Generally speaking, Hutchison can probably do the job if he's a 5-6 inning pitcher.

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#307149) #
That was an excellent at-bat for Pillar.  Cueto got a very generous call on a pitch quite a bit outside to get ahead, but Pillar fought off some tough pitches until he got one to hit.
Eephus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#307150) #
Goins is a wizard with those slap tags. Just plain beautiful to watch.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#307151) #
Love watching martin behind the plate. Great throw there. Totally fine with hutch pitching five or six innings per game, but I'd let him start the sixth
Spifficus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#307152) #
Goins and Travis, both. Each have a very quick set of hands.
mathesond - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#307153) #
One consolation to seeing Goins bat - Tulowitzki is up next (and yeah, he didn't get a hit just now, but it's great to hear his name)
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#307154) #
Loup's luck continues.
Eephus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#307155) #
Maybe there is something to this "Aaron Loup is unlucky" thing.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#307156) #
Aaron Loup's bad luck continues.  Maybe they should stop shifting so much with Loup pitching. 
perlhack - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#307157) #
i don't think picking high in the MLB draft is quite as important as the other three sports

In 2009, Baseball Analysts published an article about average WAR value of a draft pick. In general, the first pick is worth about 20 WAR, and a top 5 should generate at least 12. (Both are averages, of course.) The best fit curve for draft picks has a non-negligible error, but the pattern is quite evident: pick early. A few picks in the top 50 can provide a nice return, but this shouldn't be an expectation.

Also, hitters tend to provide a better return than pitchers, and college players provide a better return than high school players. The former is no surprise (TINSTAAPP), and the latter is probably explained by the large number of young prospect flameouts, but that's just a guess.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#307159) #
There's luck for you.  Morales hits a ball to the wall.  For Schultz, it goes as an out and that's all.  Hutchison pitched pretty well after the first inning and will get stuck with the loss if the Jays don't rally.  He can't complain after all the run support he has had.
Eephus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#307160) #
Do you remember Cueto in the playoffs against Pittsburgh? I don't know if I've ever seen a pitcher more rattled on the mound.

Blech. I've tried to stomp that game down from my memory forever. But like a tuna sandwich from a gas station, it just won't stay down!

I've always figured that starting Cueto instead of Mat Latos in that game (it was Latos' day, plus Johnny was still coming off an injury) is what cost Dusty Baker his job.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#307161) #
Shamefully bad home plate umpiring with Pillar up in a key situation. It should have been 3-1 on him instead of 2-2, which no doubt led to Pillar expanding the zone and popping out.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#307162) #
perlback, there's more recent research which suggests, I am pretty sure, that the returns on collegians vs. prep player and position players vs. pitchers are evening out.  In particular, since 2009, the longer period that players can be kept without being exposed to the Rule 5 (5 years vs. 4 years previously) makes high school pitching drafts more likely to succeed (with the team that drafts them) than before.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#307163) #
Shamefully bad home plate umpiring

Angel Hernandez blew a call?

I'm shocked, shocked to to find that gambling is going on in here...
Chuck - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#307164) #
3 runs down. HDH coming up. Doesn't look good.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#307165) #
It looks perfectly fine to me, Chuck.  This version of the Blue Jays should have a fighting chance at these three, particularly Herrera.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#307166) #
Luck or not, Loup's 5+ ERA out of the  bullpen makes him a prime candidate for AAA.
Chuck - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#307167) #
Negative voodoo. All part of the plan.
jerjapan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#307168) #
I guess this is why great hitting teams should trade for great hitters
China fan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#307169) #
For all the love that Justin Smoak gets here, he's been pretty terrible lately.  Since hitting those two HRs on July 1, he's been very mediocre, with an OPS of just .615 since July 1 (not even counting today's poor performance).  The Jays had the bases loaded with none out.  Even a SF would have kept the inning going for longer, and allowed a bigger inning.  Instead Smoak hit into a double play.  Colabello wouldn't have done worse, and might have done better.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#307170) #
Luck or not, Loup's 5+ ERA out of the  bullpen makes him a prime candidate for AAA.

Reliever ERA fluctuates wildly.  It's just one of those things.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#307171) #
For all the love that Justin Smoak gets here, he's been pretty terrible lately.  Since hitting those two HRs on July 1, he's been very mediocre, with an OPS of just .615 since July 1 (not even counting today's poor performance).  The Jays had the bases loaded with none out.  Even a SF would have kept the inning going for longer, and allowed a bigger inning.  Instead Smoak hit into a double play.  Colabello wouldn't have done worse, and might have done better.

It's true.  I am positive that Colabello wouldn't have struck out.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#307173) #
Yeah, it's one of those things that make you lose ball games.

It's not a small sample thing. Let's just stash him until September.

Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#307174) #
The point being that a reliever's ERA over 30 or 40 innings is not predictive of what it will be over the next 20.  Loup has pitched better than Bo Schultz and has a longer history. 
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#307175) #
All true, MG, but that ERA is making him a prime candidate for AAA.
Gerry - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#307176) #
To make the playoffs the Jays need to win most of their winnable games. This is a winnable game.
ayjackson - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#307177) #
Gerry, that would involve a good share of luck. I'm not sure they're capable of that.
Richard S.S. - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#307178) #
The current ongoing issues with the Jays may or may not be solved during the Waiver Trade Deadline, because it's extremely harder to make trades. I don't know who A.A. will put on (recallable) Waivers, but most GMs put some or all of their teams on waivers just to gauge interest. I jut hope Navarro gets traded for anything, because Martin needs to not catch Dickey any more before he wears out.

It's extremely doubtful that Michael Saunders get back with the Jays soon enough to effectively make a change in case of need. Dalton Pompey is the only alternative, but he needs to crush AAA to come up before September. He needs massive confidence if he gets back.

However, it's just barely possible Marcus Stroman can return as a Starter soon enough to make an effective change in case of need. Considering how scary any Starter alternatives are, Stroman is it if he can, but that's unlikely before late August. Either way, he's back in September and pitching in the Bullpen if he can't stretch out. Moving Sanchez from the Bullpen into the Rotation, might be the desperation play.

There are more options with the Bullpen, but I don't know how effective that might be. A decision must be made with Aaron Loup as soon as possible - whether he stay or goes; whether his usage/roll changes. The only thing to remember is A.A. is never done.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#307179) #
Looking at it monthly, 4.91, 5.19, 4.82, 6.35 (before tonight).  I don't know. It seems pretty consistent to me.

Historically, September has been his worst month and August not that much better.

JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#307180) #
ERA is not a great stat to judge a RP's performance.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#307181) #
Any reason the Royals haven't used Wade - no one scores against me, ever - Davis yet?
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#307182) #
Any idea why Valencia isn't hitting here?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#307183) #
Any idea why Valencia isn't hitting here?

Well, if you don't score, Valencia has to play second base.
scottt - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#307184) #
The thing with reliever ERA is that a bad reliever can have a low ERA and still allow all his inherited runs to score.
There's no way you can argue that a reliever with a high ERA is helping his team. He's in negative WAR territory.

Loup is walking less and striking out more than usual, but he's getting hit a lot more. It's doesn't matter if it's due to luck (unlikely) or just him throwing more hitting balls. He's helping the team most when he sits.

Eephus - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#307185) #
The Angel taketh, and the Angel giveth back also.

That one tastes good.

Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#307186) #
Had 'em all the way.
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#307187) #
A one run win. Hell freezing over. Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#307188) #
"The toughest bullpen in the American League"

But if Wade Davis and Greg Holland don't get into the game...

Thanks, Ned.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#307189) #
JD was pretty fired up. That was awesome.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#307190) #
#yosted
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#307191) #
yeah the rest of this year might be kinda fun.
Mike Green - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#307193) #
To make the playoffs, the Blue Jays simply have to play .500 in the games they should split.  They'll probably have to do a little better than that to catch the Yankees. 

Nice win.  It would be good to give the bullpen a rest.  Over to you, Mr. Buehrle.

Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#307194) #
Yes we needed that win against a guy like Cueto. I think 20 games over .500 is the goal to reach for. That gets us the wild card for sure and if we have a good record against NY might get us the division too. Getting there five games at a time. So if we can get to five games over .500 that's the first big step.

Also this lineup is going to be ridiculous in a few weeks when Travis is back and EE is healthy. If we got Stroman back I could see a 20-25 win September being possible.
China fan - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#307195) #
Minnesota lost, and the Jays are now within 1 game of the playoff spot.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#307196) #
The Twins stink btw.

It's gonna be us, BAL, and LA fighting for the WCs.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#307197) #
The Angels are playing on SN right now if you want to listen to Vin Scully's stories while cheering against the Halos.
Kasi - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#307201) #
With a 1/4 basically of their games left against NY I think the sights to set on is the division title. They're hurting now with Pineda out. It didn't take long for the AL East to go from tired up to the Yankees up seven. (Basically two weeks) Two hot weeks here and we could be right back with them. At the least I think it's vitally important to get the first WC spot. We're much more dangerous at home.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#307203) #
price press conference now.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#307204) #
With the deadline acquisitions, this might well be the best Jays team in two decades.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#307207) #
on paper, this is the best jays team ever i think.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#307209) #
Price: "Valencia! I think I kept him in the league."

Yup. Danny V is 12-17 against Price, with 4 BB. That's a slash line of .706/.762./882 - he might have kept him in the league.
greenfrog - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#307211) #
Yeah, ugly, you might be right. On paper, this was already a very good team even before the last few days. Now it's a powerhouse (with an ace).

Imagine if Stroman makes it back in September.

The team could be pretty good next year, too.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#307212) #
So coming into tonight's game, Kendrys Morales led the AL with 70 RBIs. He drove in two more tonight, and now sits... third? Yup - our man Josh drove in 4 to move him past him with 73. And Mark Teixeira has driven in 6 so far tonight, to match Josh.
BlueJayWay - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#307214) #
Next year they still have the entire lineup under control. Bautista and Edwin's club options, then of course there's Tulo, Donaldson, Martin, Travis, Pompey all under team control, and I think Smoak and Valencia as well. Only Navarro is a free agent.

Pitching wise, you have Buehrle a FA. You have the option on Dickey, Stroman's back, Osuna as a starter (presumably), Sanchez somewhere. Hutchison. They're probably going to have to look at adding a couple of starters through free agency or trade.

hypobole - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:15 PM EDT (#307215) #
Magpie, what are RBI's? Are they counted on an abacus?
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#307217) #
I like counting things.
uglyone - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#307218) #
after we win the world series it should be easy to convince price to sign, and ownership to pay up.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#307219) #
If he doesn't come back, we sic Valencia on him. That should do the trick.

Well, that and $200 million dollars.
Magpie - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#307220) #
Wilmer Flores with the walk-off HR to win it for the Mets? Seriously?

Baseball, man.
JB21 - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#307221) #
So happy for him.
snider - Friday, July 31 2015 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#307222) #
Can AA trade for some new media? David Price is a champ to sit through those questions with a smile.
rtcaino - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:53 AM EDT (#307228) #
greenfrog - With the deadline acquisitions, this might well be the best Jays team in two decades.

uglyone - on paper, this is the best jays team ever i think.

Concurred.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:30 AM EDT (#307235) #
But if Wade Davis and Greg Holland don't get into the game...

Thanks, Ned.

Thanks indeed. Don't understand not resorting to Hochevar and Morales until only after you have gone through your best relievers. Maybe it's the comfortable lead in their division. Maybe it's just Ned.

grjas - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:24 AM EDT (#307242) #
And at a position player level, Donaldson is having the best year of anyone since George bell. And he's a good guy to boot.

Mvp potential methinks
whiterasta80 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:37 AM EDT (#307243) #
The 1993 team featured 3 HOFs performing at high if not peak levels, arguably the best season in jays history (olerud), the best (ok now second best) SS in jays history, hentgen and guzman having above average seasons and Duane ward at the back of the bullpen.

I'd still take that team but agree that this team is in the discussion.
greenfrog - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#307247) #
The 1993 Jays had an Rdiff of 0.6.

To date, the 2015 Jays have an Rdiff of 1.0 -- and they just added Price, Tulo, Revere, Lowe and Hawkins.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#307248) #
SP Guzman 91era-, 86fip- ******* SP Price 62era-, 77fip-
SP Hentgen 88era-, 105fip- ***** SP Buehrle 82era-, 97fip-
SP Stewart 101era-, 115fip- **** SP Dickey 106era-, 118fip-
SP Stottlemyre 110era-, 88fip- * SP Estrada 95era-, 98fip-
SP Morris 141era-, 103fip- ***** SP Hutch 134era-, 100fip-

RP Ward 49era-, 48fip- ********* RP Osuna 53era-, 55fip-
RP Eichorn 62era-, 75era- ****** RP Lowe 26era-, 48fip-
RP Cox 71era-, 75fip- ********** RP Hendriks 64era-, 53fip-
RP Leiter 80era-, 90fip- ******* RP Sanchez 0era-, 27fip-
RP Castillo 76era-, 96fip- ***** RP Hawkins 76era-, 84fip-
RP Williams 100era-, 97fip- **** RP Cecil 97era-, 89fip-
RP Timlin 107era-, 100fip- ***** RP Loup 129era-, 101fip-



1. CF White 109wrc+ ************ SS Tulowitzki 112wrc+
2. 2B Alomar 142wrc+ *********** 3B Donaldson 148wrc+
3. DH Molitor 144wrc+ ********** RF Bautista 131wrc+
4. RF Carter 108wrc+ *********** DH En'cion 118wrc+
5. 1B Olerud 179wrc+ *********** C Martin 128wrc+
6. LF Henderson 151wrc+ ******** 2B Travis 137wrc+
7. SS Fernandez 100wrc+ ******** 1B Colabello 131wrc+
8. 3B Sprague 85wrc+ *********** LF Revere 97wrc+
9. C Borders 72wrc+ ************ CF Pillar 90wrc+

B. UT Coles 85wrc+ ************* UT Smoak 110wrc+
B. OF Ward 59wrc+ ************** OF Valencia 129wrc+
B. IF Griffin 26wrc+ *********** IF Goins 57wrc+
B. C Knorr 98wrc+ ************** C Navarro 70wrc+
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#307265) #
And at a position player level, Donaldson is having the best year of anyone since George bell. And he's a good guy to boot.

Mvp potential methinks

Sure, as long as Trout gets hit by a bus.

Parker - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#307282) #
Can AA trade for some new media? David Price is a champ to sit through those questions with a smile.

No kidding, that was brutal. Evidently, creeping a player's Twitter feed is what passes for research nowadays.

Still, good on Price for playing along with a smile.
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