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Baseball fever! Catch that thing! (Obviously, fresh thread is required.)


Minnesota lost to Seattle, so the Jays sit 1 game off the second Wild Card. So do the Orioles, as David Price's former team coughed up a 6-1 lead. And the Yankees beat the White Sox senseless, so they maintain their 6 game division lead over Baltimore and Toronto.

It's Ventura vs Buehrle, and the new guys may be here in time.

In light of the week that we've just lived through, I feel like revisiting a paragraph about the GM from last year's Report Card. I do love the sound of my own voice, as you all surely know by now:

        ... going for it is risky as all hell. It can blow up in your face, and haunt you for the Rest of Your Days. Ask any Expos fan about Dave Dombrowski and Mark Langston. And when you think about it, 366 home runs from a second baseman is an awful lot to give up for 7 September starts. If the Jays hadn't won in 1992, watching Jeff Kent's career unfold would have been almost 20 years of pain and remorse. But even so, at some point, you have to go for it or there's simply no point to being in the game at all... Maybe Anthopoulos simply isn't as hungry, as desperate for a title, as Gillick was in 1992. Maybe this really wasn't the time. Maybe the price this time really was too damn high. Maybe Anthopoulos thought paying that kind of price was wasted on this year's team (which is not something he could say out loud, of course.) We can't actually know whether he's been cunningly patient or overly cautious or whatever. But at some point that price will have to be paid. And then... we'll see what's what.

Well. Here we go.
Royals at Jays, Sat. 1 August | 234 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
China fan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#307223) #
"....We can't actually know whether he's been cunningly patient or overly cautious or whatever...."

Based on the evidence of the past 3 years, and especially the evidence of the past week, I would vote against the "overly cautious" scenario.

By the way, the Angels are losing in the 7th inning tonight, so the Jays might gain a game on them too.  That would put them within 2 games of the first WC spot by the end of the evening.

Sunday's game will be interesting.  I just took a look at Dickey's record in games where he has started with just 3 days rest.  It's not a pretty picture.  He's only done it 6 times before, and the opposition is walloping the ball to the tune of a .952 OPS in those situations.  We will see.  It could be an adventure.
Jimbag - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:53 AM EDT (#307225) #
I don't think AA has ever been overly conservative...he's made bold moves in the past, obviously. It's just that the past couple of days he's turned into Monty Burns.
China fan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:03 AM EDT (#307226) #
The Angels indeed lost their game tonight, but just to correct my earlier post:  the Jays are now 3 games behind the top WC spot (not 2 games as I incorrectly stated).


hypobole - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:20 AM EDT (#307227) #
My ESPN masters ordered me to post this.

Josh Donaldson's walk-off last night was his 3rd this year.

Who holds the Jays record for walk-off hits in a season?
rtcaino - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:27 AM EDT (#307229) #
If it weren't for Trout, JD MVP.
robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:08 AM EDT (#307230) #
The current Jays I would rank second behind the 1993 version that beat Philly in the Series, chiefly due to the lack of Henke-Ward type relievers.

The lineup of Tulo, Donaldson, Batista, EE, Martin, Smoak, Pillar, Goins, Revere (cola bello, navarro on the bench, Travis DL, Saunders DL) might be the best relative to league since the Big Red Machine.

This team is not exactly old, but will need younger parts as soon as next year. I see this team having a 2015 to 2017 window and after that there is the potential for a massive drop off.

For those who don't remember the glory years, this is much how it felt like in 1992. Then, we had a clear contending team that always failed to get there - we were called the Blow Jays and I had that fear that things would unravel, right until Winfield hit that double.

This team is right up there with the Royals as the best team in the AL and a favourite to make the playoffs.

Regarding the group of prospects we've given up. Of course there is the possibility that someone will become a superstar and make the trade look bad in 5 or 6 years. I don't think Daniel Norris will be one of them. I can't believe that a left hander with such terrible balance in his throwing motion will ever develop into a ace starter.




robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:14 AM EDT (#307231) #
Also. Over under for jays regular season wins. My line is 88.5.
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:23 AM EDT (#307232) #
Who holds the Jays record for walk-off hits in a season?

Pretty sure I read the ESPN article that answers the question, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

With two months to play, it's probably a bit early to think about where this year's crew stacks up in franchise history. I must admit, without investigating that I'd always thought the 1992 team was the more impressive of the two champs, mostly because of starting pitching. Which actually doesn't make all that much sense. (One tends to forget that Cone only made seven starts. Seven really, really good starts, but still...) And I would suggest that both the 1985 and 1987 teams have to be in the discussion.

We'll sort this out in October...
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:29 AM EDT (#307233) #
I had that fear that things would unravel, right until Winfield hit that double.

The fear went away then? Because I'm betting that when the Braves scored in the bottom of the inning and moved the tying run to third base, the Fear came back in full force.
robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:30 AM EDT (#307234) #
I just had a weird thought. What if mlb went back to four divisions, but split the season into two halves. If you win both halves you get a bye into the LCS. More teams would be in the pennant race longer. You'd have more Pennant races and even get to dump the barbaric wild card idea.
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:53 AM EDT (#307236) #
split the season into two halves.

Obviously, you're too young to have lived through 1981! I was there. It sucked. Worse than wild cards by an order of magnitude.

And every Cincinnati fan is with me on this one!
robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:19 AM EDT (#307237) #
I was there. Two things. The halves weren't the same length and you didn't get a bye if you won both, which screws up the incentives.
robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:22 AM EDT (#307238) #
Also, it would be so cool if everyone plays 81, then the all-star break ( move it forward obviously) and then everyone plays again. If they had that in the NBA, Utah basketball fans would have had a lot of fun last season.
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#307239) #
You'd still need to find a way to get around the problem of the 1981 Reds, who quite comfortably had the best record in the majors but watched the post-season on television because they finished second in both halves.
robertdudek - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:36 AM EDT (#307240) #
It's going to happen occasionally, but a lot less often than a wild card team winning it all and that is an abomination equal to or greater than the Reds' injustice.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:53 AM EDT (#307241) #
You'd still need to find a way to get around the problem of the 1981 Reds

The Cardinals got hosed as well, so both would-be NL division winners were excluded from the playoffs in baseball's variation of Simpson's Paradox.

Gerry - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:46 AM EDT (#307244) #

But at some point that price will have to be paid.

Pitchers in the minor leagues are like an insurance policy. You don't know for sure which pitching prospects will make it but some percentage of them should.

The trades this weak have significantly devalued that insurance policy and you expect fewer pitchers in the pipeline over the next 3 years.

The Jays need to compensate for this loss and the way to do that is to sign a free agent pitcher. Will they do that in the off-season? They have the dollars but its not something the Jays have done a lot.

The Jays will return to the draft to replenish the system but they cannot turn to the international market until 2017 due to the signing of Vlad Guerrero. Guerrero cost them a shut out in 2016 signings as well as a couple of pitchers. If AA knew he was going to trade 11 pitchers, would he still have signed Vlad Jr. and/or would he have traded with the Dodgers for the international signing bonus?

greenfrog - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#307245) #
One thing I'll be watching for this month is whether Gibbons gives his regulars some rest from time to time. A bit of strategic rest will probably do wonders for Bautista, Martin, Tulo, Donaldson and others, both for August/Sept and the playoffs (if the Jays make it that far). The pressure to make ("lock down"?) the playoffs will make it tempting to play them every inning. Doing so might be counterproductive, in terms of their health and their performance level.
BlueMonday - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:11 AM EDT (#307246) #
"Obviously, you're too young to have lived through 1981! I was there. It sucked. Worse than wild cards by an order of magnitude.

And every Cincinnati fan is with me on this one!"

"The Cardinals got hosed as well, so both would-be NL division winners were excluded from the playoffs in baseball's variation of Simpson's Paradox."

Aw, c'mon. Are you saying the 'spos one and only playoff appearance in 35 years (and the inspiration for my moniker) was tainted? Them's fighting words!
John Northey - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#307249) #
Probably the busiest deadline week in Jays history, or at least close.  My takeaways
  • Clearly AA is going for it this year
  • Only 2 players with guaranteed contracts in 2016 or later, going all the way out to 2021 (Tulowski) so crazy payroll flexibility now
  • Even 2016 has few option years just Dickey, Bautista, Encarnacion, and Izturis
  • Flip side is free agents post 2015 are Burhle, Price, Navarro, Hawkins, Estrada.  or if you prefer 60% of our rotation.  Yikes.
  • After 2016 we also see Bautista, Encarnacion, Dickey, Thole, Saunders, Cecil, Smoak on the free agent train.
  • Pretty clear from the last two points why AA is going for it as this is pretty much it for this crew.  Then comes a big rebuild or mega contracts.
So gains/losses since July 20th....
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#307250) #
Toronto has DFA'd Danny Valencia to feed Gibbons' 8 man bullpen habit. I appreciate that Gibbons can't manage a game without using 4-7 relievers, but this is completely ridiculous.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#307251) #
Ok, that Valencia DFA just seems weird. I can't understand it.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#307252) #
I mean, why not move Saunders to the 60 day DL and demote Schultz? Saunders isn't going to be back for a while, and Schultz pitched two innings last night so probably wouldn't be appearing in either of the next two games anyway. I'm just a bit baffled why they'd begin the process of letting someone like Valencia go.
pubster - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#307253) #
Danny Valencia doesn't have much value on a big league roster if he doesn't get to face David Price.

(Joking =)
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#307254) #
Ok, that Valencia DFA just seems weird. I can't understand it.

They've called up Kawasaki, which was necessary to pinch hit for Goins, and DFA"d Carrera to activate Revere. They've sent down Tepera to make space for Lowe. Rather than go back to the 7 man bullpen, they've kept it at 8 and Danny Valencia is the man without chair.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#307255) #
There has to be a second shoe about to drop. Alex can't be dumb enough to give away Danny Valencia so that the team can carry 6 right-handed relievers and also carry Aaron Loup.
Paul D - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#307256) #
So who's the fourth of? Colabello?
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#307257) #
Ok, let me rephrase - I'm baffled at the need to keep an 8 man bullpen (with one pitcher with options likely not being used for at least a day, probably two) over someone with quite a few uses that's been performing well.
Kasi - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#307258) #
Yeah I'm with spifficus here. I don't understand DFAing Valencia to keep an eight man pen.
eudaimon - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#307259) #
I'm surprised at the decision to let Valencia go. I was thinking it was going to be Colabello because we have so many potential options at 1B already and he's righthanded.

I suppose though that it might be hard for him to find playing time given that our roster is so right-handed already, and because he's not a particularly good fielder. I wouldn't put him in LF over Revere in any circumstance, for example, and he's obviously never going to play 3B over Donaldson. Those were his two main positions - it seems like they didn't trust him much at 2B, or else he might make sense as a platoon with Goins / Kawasaki. With this considered I think the move makes some sense, but I still feel bad for Valencia as he seemed like a cool guy. I am happy to see Kawasaki again though.

As a side note... we're going to have a helluva deep bullpen in September. We have at least two pretty good arms down there (Delabar, Tepera now), and I'm probably forgetting some other potential contributors.

Cracka - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#307260) #
Dropping Valencia sure seems like a weird move for a club that's going "all-in" -- he's a valuable roster piece... has hit well against both LHP and RHP this season and can play multiple positions (albeit not very well). I just hate that we kept Aaron Loup over Valencia... Loup could have been optioned for the next month and recalled on Sept. 1st, which seems like a better use of assets than dumping Valencia.

The only consolation is that Valencia is valuable enough that he'll likely be traded rather than outright lost on waivers - but we can't expect any significant return, especially post August 1st. As I understand it, he'll go on waivers for the next 24-48 hours and the Jays will have to trade him to the claiming team with the worst record... or simply lose him outright.

Not complaining too much - would rather have Ben Revere in LF over Valencia, but I would have preferred to have both on the roster and a seven man bullpen.
PeteMoss - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#307261) #
I agree it seems weird and not the move I'd make... but I suppose the thinking was that Valencia's only value (most years at least) is hitting LHP and that probably isn't a big concern with this offense and they'd rather have the defense of Revere out there everyday.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#307262) #
He had the following uses:

As a pinch hitter for Goins/Kawasaki
Giving Donaldson a day (or half-day) off or two without killing the team.
4th OF that's not Colabello
Emergency 2B if both Goins and Kawasaki have to be pinch hit for

This is on top of other uses that would exist if not for the glut of 1b/DH types, since he makes a natural platoon partner for Smoak.

Hell, since Colabello presumably had options, I'd send him down for 10 days while things shook out. Valencia can do most of what he does as well as some extra things.
ogator - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#307263) #
Maybe they can trade him for some left-handed pitching prospects...maybe the Tigers have some extras.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#307264) #
I, too, am surprised that Valencia is player #26, but I am guessing the thinking went as follows:

  • An 8-man pen was going to win out even with Price's arrival and especially since there were no obvious candidates after Tepera to send down.
  • Colabello has taken Valencia's 1B/DH platoon at-bats.
  • Revere has presumably taken Valencia's LF at-bats in a move to swap offense for defense in what is perhaps a new team strategy to play outfielders in the outfield and infielders in the infield.
  • Should Smoak's slide continue, Navarro or Colabello might be deemed better candidates than Valencia to assume the playing time against RHP, despite Valencia's numbers against RHP this year.

Valencia is a major league player and if his career does not continue with Toronto, it will somewhere else. Many teams need lefty-killers, especially those that can man a few positions.

whiterasta80 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#307266) #
Alex might have something in the works with a team high on the waiver ladder and was saving a roster move. Either that or he was doing Danny a solid and getting him a shot at a more important role.

From a pure baseball standpoint it doesn't make sense.
Jonny German - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:58 AM EDT (#307267) #
I've argued in favour of ditching Valencia in the past, but I don't get why they'd do it now. 8-man bullpen is unnecessary.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#307269) #
8-man bullpen is unnecessary.

It depends on the manager I think. Gibbons pulled Estrada after a two-out single on Thursday after 5.2. He then used Cecil for 1 batter and 3 other relievers of an inning each with a 3 run lead. Last night Gibbons pulled Hutchison after 5+ and brought in Loup. He used 6 relievers on the night. Only Shultz pitched more than 1 inning despite the possibility of extra innings.

As spifficus pointed out, Shultz could have been sent down. I'd certainly rather lose Loup than Valencia. He's a good player to give away in order to carry a 6th right-hander and Loup.
Cracka - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#307270) #
we're going to have a helluva deep bullpen in September. We have at least two pretty good arms down there (Delabar, Tepera now) Chad Jenkins and (maybe) Marcus Stroman... that's a pretty solid 12-man bullpen! Plus long-shot guys like Joba Chamberlain, Scott Copeland, and Phillipe Aumont. Actually I think it's unlikely that we'll see Stroman this year given the recent acquisitions. He's throwing now at Duke - but would almost certainly need to spend time in the minors before re-joining the big club... and there are only 5 weeks left in the AAA season.
eudaimon - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#307271) #
Chuck's post is spot on. Valencia just wasn't going to get enough at-bats. Colabello has more value as a 1B/DH because he doesn't have noticeable platoon splits.

Things would be different if Valencia was batted left or played a decent 2B.

cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#307272) #
There has to be a second shoe about to drop. Alex can't be dumb enough to give away Danny Valencia so that the team can carry 6 right-handed relievers and also carry Aaron Loup.
As spifficus pointed out, Shultz could have been sent down. I'd certainly rather lose Loup than Valencia. He's a good player to give away in order to carry a 6th right-hander and Loup.
4) Relief could be a problem as Gibby only trust a few. I like Craig Kimbrel but don't know if he's the right answer.


How about a package of Valencia, Navarro and Loup and Schultz to the Padres for Craig Kimbrel ? Would all four players pass through waivers ?
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#307273) #
Things would be different if Valencia was batted left or played a decent 2B.

Can Valencia get a crash training to field 2B ? If he improves, he and Goins can platoon 2B....
Cynicalguy - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#307274) #
I would guess Pompey is getting called up as the 4th OF to improve the defence when Revere isn't playing. Also there's a lot of lefty mashers on this team already who also happen to be righty mashers...making Valencia expendable.
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#307275) #
I agree with those calling it weird, and would probably go with even stronger language. Don't get it at all. Versus LHP this year, he was .316/.366/.461 with a 129 wRC+ (137 wRC+ for his career).

Bo Schultz easily should've been the one sent down (along with Tepera). Not that he deserves it. That's the thing I didn't get with picking up two new relievers. There's obviously room for Lowe (an upgrade) but the LaTroy Hawkins pick-up was pretty unnecessary in retrospect. Little to choose between Hawkins and Schultz (Loup is more valuable than both) and what we've essentially done is trade Valencia for Hawkins, which is a BAD trade.
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#307276) #
I'm surprised as well. I assume they figure they're just never going to see another LH pitcher.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#307277) #
Can Valencia get a crash training to field 2B ?

Maybe a weekend course at the Learning Annex?

TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#307278) #
One thing I'll be watching for this month is whether Gibbons gives his regulars some rest from time to time.

Tulo apparently getting the day off today.
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#307279) #
Amendment: how about a package of Valencia, Navarro and Hawkins and Schultz to the Padres for Craig Kimbrel ? Would all four players pass through waivers ? In other words, trade away underused player(s) to team(s) where the players are perceived to be useful and get something valuable in return ? A mini Lawrie et al. for Donaldson trade...
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#307280) #
Aaron Loup is the defining point in this Bullpen/Fanbase because it no longer matters that he's a lefty. He's no longer effective enough to do everything they need him to do. Everyone else in the Bullpen is much better than he could be, despite non-Baseball opinions to the contrary.

Aaron Loup/The Blue Jays need to work out what must change, and why he's lost his effectiveness in all things. He unfortunately also has an option, so that makes any decision much better. Sometime over the next few days a decision will be made, until then eight Relievers.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#307281) #
Phillipe Aumont might be the product of the Children Aid Societe, but someone who wants to use the term "ghetto" to describe a suburb populated with public servants needs to go visit American cities. Ottawa has street  gangs problems. Gatineau doesn't
Landomar - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#307283) #
DFA'ing Valencia is ridiculous, I'm actually really upset about this. He's a very good player and we had lots of other options available to us that wouldn't have cost us anyone (such as sending down Schultz, Loup, or Colabello).

I also hate that we DFA'd Carrera to call up Kawasaki. I suppose that Carrera wouldn't have played much now that we have Ben Revere, but Carrera has done a good job for us and our outfield depth looks pretty terrible right now. If I see Colabello out in LF again, I'm going to lose my mind.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#307284) #
So, who's the backup at 3B?
Cracka - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#307285) #
2015 stats vs. LH Hitters:

- Loup = .278/.328/.370 (15 hits in 54 AB)
- Schultz = .140/.240/.209 (6 hits in 43 AB)
- Tepera = .100/.250/.200 (3 hits in 30 AB)

Schultz & Tepera are unlikely to sustain these numbers, but given the up & down nature of middle relief, they are certainly the "hot arms" right now AND they are both serviceable against RH hitters. Loup is strictly a LOOP at this point (Left-handed one-out person).

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#307286) #
(such as sending down Schultz, Loup, or Colabello).

Does Loup have options? Does Colabello? If Colabello has options then this is pure madness.

Apparently Anthopolous allowed Gibbons to choose the players he wanted to keep.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#307287) #
it's annoying because danny should be our starting 1B on merit.
Cynicalguy - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#307288) #
The Jays had a bench that didn't have too much flexibility...lacked defence and baserunning. Getting rid of Valencia and bringing up Pompey makes sense, they will have a bat and a baserunner every game. They can pinch hit or pinch run late in games and not be worried about putting out a defensive liability out in the field.

2B Devon Travis
SS Troy Tulowitzki
3B Josh Donaldson
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
C Russell Martin
1B Justin Smoak / Chris Colabello
CF Kevin Pillar
LF Ben Revere / Pompey

Bench: C Navarro, IF Goins, 1B Collabello/Smoak, OF Pompey/Revere
Cracka - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#307289) #
According to this BBB table (updated 2 weeks ago), both Colabello & Loup have options remaining: http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/pages/blue-jays-option-and-outright-status

Loup has never been optioned in his career and actually has THREE options remaining.
Kasi - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#307290) #
Apparently AA was quoted as saying he's giving Gibbons the roster that he requested. Gibbons loves the 8 man bullpen I guess. But I also think Pompey will be up here shortly for a pitcher.
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#307291) #
The major consideration, I would have to think, is preserving the in-game option of being able to pinch hit for Goins when necessary.
eudaimon - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#307292) #
Kawasaki will back up 3B I presume.

Regarding Valencia playing 1B on merit, I can't see when that would happen. He wouldn't start against righties (he's done well enough against him this year, but I suspect it's more of a fluke than anything - remember Lind vs lefties in 09). Edwin plays about half his games at 1B, so those are automatically out. Maybe he could play vs lefties over Colabello, but Colabello doesn't seem to have platoon splits and I think it's generally better to give playing time to non-platoon players (you don't have to worry about pinch-hitting for them). Same is true for Smoak. That's not leaving many at-bats, especially once Revere takes over in left.

Mike Green - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#307293) #
Apparently AA was quoted as saying he's giving Gibbons the roster that he requested

Someone is just trying to pull my chain.  Yesterday they said that Revere will be platooning.  Does this mean that we will be seeing the return of Chris Colabello, LF?  Personally I've never been a fan of horror movies.
jerjapan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#307294) #
Ridiculous?  Madness? 

Easy on the hyperbole guys, this is a platoon IF who can't play D, acquired for next to nothing (although I know that we later turned nothing - Hendricks - into something), that we are talking about.  He will be traded, not released, and the team will save a bit of money.  This is a rich people problem - we don't have to horde every last asset right now.

although I'm not sure how trades work post deadline - someone above suggested that he has to be traded to the claiming team or released, but I'm not sure that's correct?

uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#307295) #
no AA said gibbons wanted revere playing every day in LF.

after all the crying about LF defense this makes sense.

my only issue is that i'm more confident in Danny's D and hitting vLHP at 1B than either cola or smoak.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#307296) #
AA also says that Gibbons wanted a 7 man pen.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#307297) #
And, of course, Revere leads off with Tulowitzki getting the day off.  Super duper.

Encarnacion looked much better at the plate yesterday, especially turning on the pitch inside.  He does need a day or two off when he has a minor injury.  It's an excellent time and place for Colabello.  Speaking of that, Bautista's shoulder injury seems to be affecting him at the plate too.  I'm not an expert, but it looks to me like somehow it interferes with a delicate timing mechanism. He had a cortisone shot in May, and it (or the time off surrounding the shot) seems to have worked for almost exactly a month.  He did get a benefit from the 3 days off at the All-Star break, but it was much shorter lived.  I imagine that he might have one more injection this year, but if so, I'd venture a guess that it might not be for some time. 

Cracka - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#307298) #
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions), the Jays will likely get nothing in return for Valencia. He'll be waived today, and will go to the lowest standing AL team that makes a claim on him (assuming an AL team claims him, if not the lowest standing NL team that claims him). After which, they'll have two days to make a trade or lose him for nothing... which means they'll almost certainly lose him for nothing because they will not have the option of rescinding the waiver. Perhaps some kind GM will offer a low-level prospect to expedite the process, but that's the best case scenario.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#307299) #
OK.  Let's imagine that Colabello is the 4th outfielder for only a day or two and another move will find a real outfielder up to play that role. At least they do have 3 real middle infielders on the roster now. 

The 8 man pen is part of a secret right-wing plot to infect our minds and turn tolerant souls into Donald Trump. I kid.

eudaimon - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#307300) #
What's wrong with Revere in leadoff? I think having a .300/.330 slash line with speed up there is perfectly fine.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#307301) #
There are several types of Waivers that apply this month.
1) Recallable Waivers are in use because a player must clear waivers to be traded, without restrictions. If claimed, he can be traded to the Claiming Team if the price is right, otherwise he is recalled and cannot be traded for the balance of this season. Teams put as few players as one, to as many as 25 players on Waivers, sometimes just to gauge interest.
2) Non-Recallable Waivers are used for DFAs and player movement within a Team. Players will be reassigned to the Minors, or they will be released, or they will elect Free Agency. Most moves clear waivers as this is normal business stuff all teams do. Usually no one messes with this because payback is a bitch. If, surprise,surprise the player is claimed (enacting possible future payback), he is lost, whether or not you get value back.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#307302) #
Gibby would not disclose Revere's platoon partner.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#307303) #
Kawasaki will back up 3B I presume.

Actually, I wonder if Matt Hague wouldn't come up if Donaldson was to be put on the DL.
soupman - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#307304) #
Didn't Tulo just have a day off? I'm sure he was busy, but the Valencia DFA makes more sense if he's actually hurt and they are down to Goins as the only guy on the 25 man that can play SS.

Baseless speculation...Just saying.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#307305) #
I've listened to everything possible on TSN and Sportsnet, as the more significant Baseball people speak about Toronto's acquisitions. They are excited by the Revere acquisition (listen to them yourselves, as the stuff is still easily accessible). He has good Defense, very good speed, can hit and steal bases. His OBP and SLG are limited, but it's not as it they need that. He' supposed to be an ideal leadoff hitter for this team - they have no one else. So some expert Baseball people on this site don't like it :(-.
finch - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#307306) #
Please stop with the Matt Hague talk. The only teams he's appealing to are those that are trying to tank for a higher draft pick.
greenfrog - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#307307) #
Tulo got hit on the knee with a pitch the other day. Maybe he's a bit banged up. Either way, I applaud the Jays for giving him the day off after an extra-innings night game.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#307308) #
Well, the Hague talk is now warranted (in the abstract), since he's our best option at 3B if Donaldson had to miss a bit of time for any reason.
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#307309) #
Please stop with the Matt Hague talk.

For the sake of clarity of my reason, a user on this website had raised concern seasons ago (in last season of Riccardi's era) about the underused OF David Smith when the Jays' Triple-A affiliate was the Syracuse Skychiefs. This voice suggested me to raise concern now about the underused 1B/3B Matt Hague -  history may repeat itself. Just saying that I tried to contribute positively to the discussion on the Jays.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#307310) #
I heard he requested time off to appear on Jeopardy!
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#307311) #
I heard he was a contestant on Jeopardy while simultaneously playing at third. They put a mic and headphones in his batting helmet, and a buzzer in his right batting glove. He lost after a malfunction due to a slide.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#307312) #
AA also says that Gibbons wanted a 7 man pen.

Anthopolous said that Gibbons' wanted a 7 man pen and Anthopolous chose to instead release Valencia? ugly that's very strange. According to Arash Madani at Sportsnet, Anthopoous said: "we're in a crucial stretch and I'll let Gibbons have the group that he wants". Where did you read that Gibbons had wanted to go to a 7 man pen instead?
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#307313) #
Some spiffy helmet.
BlueMonday - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#307314) #
Nice left field defence, Ben.  Next step, be a leadoff hitter.
Super Bluto - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#307315) #
If Smoak continues to kill rallies and Colabello continues to regress, Hague as a 1B option doesn't strike me as nutty. But I don't know anything about his glove. Cyber?
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#307316) #
Re. the 7-man pen, I saw the same thing on Twitter, from one or two reporters, that Uglyone mentioned. Just tried to find who'd said it but couldn't. In any case, the only thing that makes sense to me is they want to keep eight relievers for a day or two, given the extra-innings game last night, and then go to seven. And who'll replace that reliever? Well, looking through Twitter for that other quote, I also see that Anthopoulos is saying there could well be more moves in the next few days. Somehow they'll have to find a 4th OF. I doubt they'll recall Pompey to fill that role so, yeah, they're probably working on something.

And going through the Twitter, I also came across this from Danny Valencia:

"I'm pretty upset by the move today. Never really saw it coming. I loved playing here in Toronto! I'm gonna miss all my teammates/brothers!!!"
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#307317) #
Valencia was having a great year and was thinking of making the playoffs. Why would he see it coming?
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#307318) #
They're all Angel Hernandez. Ack.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#307319) #
Smoak may get drilled here.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#307320) #
EE I mean.
hypobole - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#307321) #
Hey Magpie, Josh just moved 2 more stones over on the abacus!:)
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#307322) #
It's hard to cheer for a team that is packed like that. I think I just need to watch them play the Yankees. In 6 days.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#307323) #
#bombsgalore
Magpie - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#307324) #
Josh just moved 2 more stones over on the abacus!:)

And isn't it good when that happens!
King Ryan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#307325) #
Nothing in baseball I hate more than trading for relievers.
JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#307326) #
#cantpredictball
Kasi - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#307327) #
If we have any hope of catching the Yankees you can't lose games you led 5-1.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#307328) #
He just needs an easy inning or two to get comfy at the RC.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#307329) #
hilarious.

fits right in with our bullpen.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#307330) #
Lowe: 4 earned runs in 3 months. Then 3 earned runs in 1 inning.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#307331) #
1st homer off davis in 2yrs.

that's awesome.

uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#307332) #
oh man EE that woulda been nuts.
JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#307333) #
Ya I'm sure no playoff team has come back from down 6 games back after losing a game they were winning 5-1.
TangledUpInBlue - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#307334) #
hilarious.

Had the same reaction, Uglyone. Blowing leads, getting BABIPed. What else should we have expected? (Which is why I agree too with King Ryan.)
King Ryan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#307335) #
The homer he gave up in 2013 was as a starter. He hadn't given up a homer as a reliever since July 7, 2012. And the Jays were THIS close to going back-to-back. That would have been mental.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#307336) #
Too bad it's down to the bottom of the lineup.
Alex Obal - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#307338) #
In particular, I'm not sure why the urgency to import a decent enough flyball pitcher on a hot streak from Seattle.

This has been a great series so far!
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#307339) #
well bottom of the lineup will now likely include tulo martin and cola.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#307340) #
Nice AB.
uglyone - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#307341) #
tough loss but damn this team is good.

they make the best bullpen in baseball look scared out there.
scottt - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#307342) #
Fun 9th. Tulo starts they probably win this.
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307343) #
Can Pillar be pitched hit ? As it happened not, is it a wrong decision by Gibbons ? Even if the Jays did not win in the 9th, Revere and Colabello can manage CF and LF.

CF Revere
3B Donaldson
RF Bautista
DH EE
1B Smoak
C Navarro
SS Tulo
2B Martin
LF Colabello
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#307344) #

Lowe: 4 earned runs in 3 months. Then 3 earned runs in 1 inning.

So, what you're saying is he was just getting almost all of the runs against him in the next two months over with in one game, right?

Landomar - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307345) #
We're the worst good team that I've ever seen. This is getting really frustrating.
cybercavalier - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#307346) #
In the bottom 10th, EE Smoak Navarro would due up... With that lineup, I believe the Royals' bullpen and closer cannot do much about it but to lose ?
JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#307347) #
You've barely seen this team play.
Gerry - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#307348) #
The more things change.....

The Jays suffer a one run loss with the bullpen taking the loss and giving up a big home run.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#307349) #
I see Mark Lowe has caught the "pitch terribly when the Jays have a close lead late" virus. He'll fit right in.


BlueJayWay - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#307350) #
We're the worst good team that I've ever seen. This is getting really frustrating.

I was frustrated by this team by mid-June. Now I'm just kookoo mental
mathesond - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#307351) #
I'm enjoying watching them play. Then again, I don't expect them to win every game. Heck, it's bad enough expecting a football team to go undefeated...
cruzin - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#307352) #
You just knew Gibbons wanted to try out his new toy in the bullpen lol. Actually, I didn't have a problem with him bringing in Lowe, would've preferred a lower leverage intro, but whatever.

But his love of the 8 man bullpen is the reason we're losing Valencia which I think is just wrong.

Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#307353) #
So, what you're saying is he was just getting almost all of the runs against him in the next two months over with in one game, right?

Clearly the Zig Ziglar training package didn't go wasted on you!

rtcaino - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#307354) #
"He'll fit right in."

Last thing you want to do is show up your new teammates.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#307355) #
lol, true
jerjapan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#307356) #
okay, so everyone hates the 8 man bullpen.  I don't like it either. 

But AA is a smart dude.  Gibbons has years of baseball experience, and the respect of the team.  What's the rationale FOR the 8 man pen?  I love and respect the Box, but I assume we nerds don't have ALL the answers ...

Landomar - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#307358) #
Why have an 8 man pen?

1. They don't really trust the rotation and want to protect against a starter getting knocked out in the first few innings
2. The bullpen is currently tired and the 8 man pen is just "temporary"
3. Gibbons doesn't like using his bench anyway

Another reason would be that the team has a bunch of relievers who are out of options, and doesn't want to lose anyone, but that doesn't apply right now. I can't really think of any other reasons for the current situation.
Mike Green - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#307359) #
That was a tough loss.  Normally if you give Mark Buehrle a 5-1 lead after 5 innings, you are good to go.  Last night's game and today's count as a split of close games. Can we have another laugher please?  Dickey deserves it.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#307360) #
Let's hope doormat day tomorrow has no metaphoric value, especially since they are emblazoned with the Blue Jays logo.
Gerry - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#307361) #
After the Phillies series, and Tulo's first game, the Jays were 51-51. Sixty games were left. If the Jays were to go 6-4 for six sets of ten games they would finish with 87 wins. With the parity in the AL this year, that could be enough for the WC game. It would need to be better to catch the Yankees and if its worse they would miss the playoffs.

The Jays are 2-1 in the first set of ten which ends with the first two Yankee games next week.
JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#307362) #
Vin Scully just said "Taylor Featherstone almost lost a syllable" after Puig smoked a bit that one hopped him and almost smoked him in the nuts. GOAT.
cruzin - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#307363) #
"But AA is a smart dude. Gibbons has years of baseball experience, and the respect of the team. What's the rationale FOR the 8 man pen? I love and respect the Box, but I assume we nerds don't have ALL the answers ..."

True, but how many managers employ a 8 man bullpen. If not the majority, is Gibbons on to something new, leading edge kind of stuff? If it's just temporary as someone suggested, was it worth losing Valencia consider there arms in the bullpen that still have options?

Applying that flow of logic, many are left puzzled yet again with Gibbons preferred choice of 8 man bullpen, especially if it's just temporary.
greenfrog - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#307364) #
A win tomorrow and the Jays will have taken 3 of 4 from a very good team (one that just became better with the additions of Cueto and Zobrist). That would be a solid accomplishment. Even a split wouldn't be the worst outcome. But the Jays need to rise to the occasion and play good baseball against the Twins and Yankees.

It would be helpful to have Travis back sooner rather than later - he seems to be one of the straws that stirs the Jays' drink. The Jays were hurt today by running Kawasaki/Goins/Revere out there at 8/9/1.
JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#307365) #
Angels and Rays lost as well, now just need the Yankees, O's, and Twins to lose...
eudaimon - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#307366) #
It's too bad we lost today but I'm still happy with how we've played so far this series. We're up 2-1 so far, and have shown that we can compete (and beat) perhaps one of the best teams in baseball (they're second to the Cardinals in wins, and just acquired two great players). If we can win the series tomorrow I'll be quite happy, but even a split would be okay. We can make up ground against the other teams, none of which are as good as KC is right now.
greenfrog - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#307367) #
Buehrle has been saying some nice things about Anthopoulos. I wonder if he would consider signing a one-year deal to continue pitching for the Jays in 2016.

Also, what happens if you make a QO to a player and he declines, but then proceeds to retire?
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#307368) #
The game was lost, boo hoo, and everyone's saying "more of the same old." Really!
1) Revere, Pillar and Kawasaki are 0-12, while only Bautista had more than one hit.
2) Buehrle has a rare blowout of an inning that never happens anymore.
3) The new Relief stud tries too hard and gets handed his head.
Yup, that's more of the old same old.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 07:59 PM EDT (#307369) #
Actually, I've been quite pleased at how muted the criticism here has been on this loss, as it should be with this one. Buehrle had a rough inning... That'll happen from time to time. Lowe had a lot of difficulty locating his slider, but the stuff was as advertised. And Bautista looks like he's rounding into form with a couple of bombs, to help keep it a one run game. A team's going to lose some, but this one wasn't a soul crusher.
Chuck - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#307370) #
about the underused OF David Smith when the Jays' Triple-A affiliate was the Syracuse Skychiefs.

I am trying to understand your motivation. Seven years ago, David Smith had 50 AB in AAA at age 27. He hit very well in those 50 AB. But it was just 50 AB. Fast forward to 2015 and Matt Hague is having a very nice year in AAA at age 29 (he will turn 30 later in the month). Because David Smith was not rewarded for his 50 AB, you have elected to make it your mission to carry the water for Matt Hague in 2015, whom you presume is also not being suitably rewarded for his strong play? Is that what this is all about?

JB21 - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#307371) #
The player has to sign to get the pick, like Morales and Drew two years ago.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#307372) #
I like to think of it as the Chip Cannon Hangover Effect, Chuck.
Eephus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#307373) #
Watching the White Sox-Yankees game: I can't help but admire the absurd shamelessness of Hawk's homerism. I bet it's only insanely annoying when he does it against a team you're rooting for. Against a team you dislike, it's kind of fun.

Old friend Melky Cabrera has also hit a three run bomb to put the Pale Hose up 6-1 in the 6th.
Spifficus - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#307374) #
There's something about their broadcasts that I find grating. Having said that, I heard him on the Olney ESPN podcast a month or two ago and he's an awesome interview. I think I just generally prefer a conversational style of broadcast, where you feel like you're sitting in on a couple of friends watching a game while having a beer.
John Northey - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#307375) #
The current lineup has mainly everyday guys who don't want days off...
CA: Martin
1B: Mix and match
2B: Travis
3B: Donaldson
SS: Tulowski
LF: mix
CF: Pillar
RF: Bautista
DH: Encarnacion

So 1B/LF are a mess but the rest play everyday and Goins backs up the IF, while the LF assortment backs up Bautisa.
Navarro wants to be playing everyday, Smoak, Calabello too.  Really, what would another bench guy do?  Smoak, Valencia, and Navarro all are sub 200 PA this year. 
Over 200PA: Martin, Encaranacion, Travis, Reyes, Donaldson, Colabello, Pillar, Bautista, Goins.  Just 9 guys and if Travis had been healthy Goins wouldn't be as high.
100-199 PA: Smoak, Valencia, Carrera, Navarro
Sub 100: 7 hitters including Tulo who will be over 200 as soon as possible.

Pitchers with 20+ IP: 14, another 4 are over 10 IP. 
200+ batters faced: just starters, only 5 guys.
100+ batters faced: 13 or 8 if you remove the guys with 200+.  The same number as hitters with 100+ PA.

Clearly Gibbons likes using as many pitchers as possible.  I can understand AA saying he wants the roster to reflect Gibbons wishes.

jerjapan - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#307376) #
I really do get the attraction to a deep, hard throwing pen with hutch, Estrada and dickey as key guys who can't go deep I to games, although RA has been going deeper again. The rotations much improved, but still thin. Just too bad that Lowe had such a rough start. Why throw a one year wonder into the fire like that?
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 01 2015 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#307377) #
...Just too bad that Lowe had such a rough start. Why throw a one year wonder into the fire like that?


Why not? Get them in a game as soon as possible. The faster you engender a comfort-level the better.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 12:06 AM EDT (#307378) #
Twins came back and won, O's won as well. Yanks, Rays, Rangers, and Angels lost. Onto tomorrow. White Sox getting hot BTW, Melky starting to actually hit a little bit.
StephenT - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:35 AM EDT (#307379) #
Defensive Runs Saved in LF, Apr-July 2015:

Revere +2 (362 inn)
Pillar +8 (120 inn)
Saunders 0 (26 inn)
Goins -1 (17 inn)
Valencia -3 (220 inn)
Tolleson -1 (14 inn)
Pompey +1 (49 inn)
Carrera -7 (218 inn)
Colabello -9 (257 inn)

from http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=14&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=1_50
(players listed in order by FanGraphs 'Def' metric, which is actually based on UZR not DRS)
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:58 AM EDT (#307380) #
One thing that surprised me about Colabello when I was looking into him a few weeks ago -- the guy has basically never played LF in his entire career till this year. That includes independent ball, the minors, and MLB. Something like 10 appearances in LF since 2005, and nothing at all since 2011. (He's appeared slightly more than that in RF; mostly he's played 3B and 1B.)

I'd just assumed this is something he'd had experience with and was no good at. But no. Which helps to explain the poor routes, etc.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:00 AM EDT (#307381) #
Oh, and when I say "till this year," that means "till he was called up by the Jays." In Buffalo, he played RF twice, LF not at all.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:19 AM EDT (#307382) #
I didn't realize Cola could play third base.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:28 AM EDT (#307383) #
Quite the opposite. There's no point in criticising, but it's a game that should have been won. It's easier to move on to the next game at this point knowing the team has a good chance to win.

If they lose the next game, they're still the 500 Jays.

scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:33 AM EDT (#307384) #
He would retire as a FA.

The QO should be a automatic at this point.

ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:33 AM EDT (#307385) #
Twins came back and won

Helped in no small part by Seattle's decision to intentionally walk the winning run with two out in the ninth. A wild pitch, a single and a loss.
ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:45 AM EDT (#307386) #
The QO should be a automatic at this point.

I don't know one way or the other what Toronto will do, but I think I'd be more surprised if they make the QO than if they don't. Not because they don't want to guarantee the $. Much the opposite I think it would be in the team's favour. But Mark Buehrle came here shortly after signing a deal to play somewhere else. Although he made it clear at the time this wasn't his choice, he's been a great citizen while he's been here. His family ended up having to move from Florida, where they'd chosen to live, to Buffalo, where they certainly hadn't.

This is a team that has trouble attracting marquis players, and putting an albatross QO around a 37 year old perennial very good player who has done everything they could have possibly have asked of him, may be looked at as lowball. Not saying they won't do it, but I suspect they may not.
greenfrog - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:55 AM EDT (#307387) #
While rationally I know that a split against KC would be an acceptable outcome, I really want the Jays to win today's game. Sliding back to .500 yet again would feel like a setback in what has been a frustrating season. Given the large number of games the Jays have lost that they should have won, they need to win some games that it would be "acceptable" to lose.

Also, just as it was a mistake to assume that the AL East would remain "wide open" forever (as I argued a couple of months ago, before the Yankees took control of the division), I think it's also a mistake to assume that the two WC berths will remain wide open forever. If the Jays continue to hover around .500 by losing winnable games, a couple of other teams may well seize the opportunity and gain the advantage over TO. The Jays need to stop pussyfooting around and take charge of their own destiny.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#307388) #
I know he's been busy, but I don't like the decision to push Price back till Monday and start Dickey today. Price would be on four days' rest today; he was able to throw late on Friday night and had the chance to get a good sleep last night, and should be able to go today with less disruption, I think, than the way they're doing it (i.e., Dickey on three days' rest, Price on five).

I suspect a big part of the rationale was they wanted him starting against the Twins instead of the Royals (and maybe more often versus the Yankees after that), but it seems way too early to me -- and too cute -- to be trying that. The Twins aren't that good and may very well not be one of the teams we're contending with down the stretch. Every game's important and I think you pitch Price as early and often as possible; and the former helps with the latter.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#307389) #
I think that's a ridiculous way of looking at it. The only time you don't give a player a QO is if  you think the player isn't worth one. No player will ever sign with Toronto because they don't offer QOs. Being poorly managed is not an incentive. Players want the longest possible contract and so don't know if they'll be worth a QO at the end anyway.
The guy didn't sign here and should be rewarded for honoring a contract that gives him $38M with no way out? Really?

At most, you can use it to make another trade happen. I heard you wanna sign Mark but don't want to lose a pick? How about we made this trade that's clearly in you advantage but give us something we need and you go ahead and sign him?

Mike Green - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#307390) #
I know he's been busy, but I don't like the decision to push Price back till Monday and start Dickey today. Price would be on four days' rest today; he was able to throw late on Friday night and had the chance to get a good sleep last night, and should be able to go today with less disruption, I think, than the way they're doing it (i.e., Dickey on three days' rest, Price on five).

Concur.  Price and Tulowitzki got a slightly different type of welcome to Toronto than Lowe. You'd think that in a pennant race, "one for all and all for one" would be the galvanizing principle.

I remember Gillick on the mound throwing before the World Series game- for me, it was his way of saying that he was right there with the club.  
John Northey - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#307392) #
In the end you do whatever works best for maximizing your odds of winning.  The Jays braintrust feels giving Price the extra day after the headaches of being traded is best and I see a lot of logic in that.
cybercavalier - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#307393) #
Thank Spifficus for understanding.

In the boxscores of yesterday match of Buffalo versus Pawtucket, PawSox' CF Quentin Berry who is batted left and throws left has stolen about 40 bases. About tactics of player transactions, would trading, say Alex Hassan for Berry, let the Jays decide if they can take the more economical route for a basestealing threat. I do not intend to mean the extreme meaning in which Berry is another Rickey Henderson or Ben Revere but if there is a talent need at the MLB team, would the triple-A team acquire players who are similar in talent but cheaper in cost so that they can be more closely checked out by coaches ? After all, player(s) like Hassan has not come from the Jays' lower minor leagues.
hypobole - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#307394) #
"Why throw a one year wonder into the fire like that?"

Because they Jays org obviously doesn't think of Lowe as a one year wonder who needs coddling. Otherwise they wouldn't have given up what they did for him.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#307395) #
"I suspect a big part of the rationale was they wanted him starting against the Twins instead of the Royals (and maybe more often versus the Yankees after that), but it seems way too early to me -- and too cute -- to be trying that. "

normally i'd agree with this but the difference is too stark imo. Pushing him back a day here actually gives us the chance to make sure almost every single start iz against playoff contenders, while starting him today would out him on track to face all of phi, oak, and bos multiple times.

uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#307396) #
actually it's much simpler than that - we have 4 off days in 2 weeks coming up. pushing him back a day here lets us pitch him against NY and LA instead of OAK and PHI this month.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#307397) #
Yeah, I've heard that case, but three things come to mind. First, as I mentioned, it disrupts things now with two pitchers going on irregular rest, and I have a particular concern for how Dickey will pitch today. ChinaFan posted earlier that his career numbers on three days' rest aren't good, and though I'm not sure how much of that comes from his knuckleballing days (the relevant sample), I doubt that he was pitching much on three days' rest in the days when he was lousy.

Second, you have to beat the bad teams too, not that KC and Oakland are bad anyway. For all we know, it'll be KC we're battling for the wildcard. And even if we're not, I don't know how much an advantage you really get playing him against the Yankees and Twins instead of the weaker teams we also need to beat. Some probably, but I don't imagine it's a whole lot.

Finally, how will rainouts affect these best-laid plans? You'd hate, for example, to see his next start get rained-out, meaning he goes on 5-days' rest for the second straight time, and effectively starts two days' later than he would've had he pitched today. This is what I'm talking about when I say pitch him as early and often as possible, because the two are linked.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#307398) #
well the one advantage of the knuckler is his rubber arm so I don't worry much about that.

and inhave to disagree - we need price against the top teams much more than against the weak teams. pitching the toughest game is why we paid so much for him.

tbh i'm interested in what they do the rest of the way.....there's all sorts of off days the rest of the way which means we could do a lot of skipping of hutch/eztrada if we want to
finch - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#307399) #
Anyone else think Donaldson was intentionally hit for stealing signs off Cueto?
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#307400) #
yup.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#307401) #
Hmm... interesting, Finch.
John Northey - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#307402) #
Not to jinx it or anything but 3 innings, 1 hit, 4 K's no walks.  Guess the short rest didn't hurt Dickey.  We'll see if he has any endurance.  Now lets see that blinking offense get in gear with 3 newer Jays due up.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#307403) #
Cheering for Dan Norris to help out the Jays today versus the O's. 1 clean inning with 2 k's.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#307404) #
I was under the impression that the reason Price's start got pushed back was because his normal between starts throw day got pushed back - it would have been Friday, and got messed up with the travelling.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#307405) #
With Dickey pitching the last game of a series, it's the perfect time for KC to settle some scores.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#307406) #
You mean the flat tire?
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#307407) #
one advantage of the knuckler is his rubber arm

I dunno about that. Dickey actually throws as hard as anyone else you'll see. The ball just doesn't get there as fast. (Which is also a joke old pitchers tell on themselves.) But at least there's no chance he'll blow out his UCL.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#307408) #
You mean the flat tire?

Yup. I believe the plan was drive to Toronto, meet the press, do his throwing, watch the game. Instead, he arrived in time to watch the game, met the press when it was done, and did his throwing the next day.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#307409) #
He did his throwing after his press conference on Friday night.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#307410) #
I thought he did his throwing Friday night after the game but I might be wrong. It may have just been a game of catch and not his actual side session.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#307411) #
looking at the sked it seems impossible to me to squeeze in a 13th start for price even if be pitched today. he'd need to pitch on short rest at least twice to do it.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#307412) #
He did his throwing after his press conference on Friday night.

Really? Well, it was probably Saturday by then!
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#307413) #
nice to have such a sure handed SS. i'm already calmer every grounder to short. and this turf ahould help maximize his range.
greenfrog - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#307414) #
I think we can all agree that reports of Dickey being toast were greatly exaggerated. Today he's more like freshly baked baguette.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#307415) #
Pillar has essentially stopped hitting. To me it looks like he's flailing at everything, over the past 28 days he's hitting 216/272/284.

Very good D but unless he gets hot Pompey could be of use in CF a couple days a week as well.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#307416) #
yeah greenfrog dickey's eaten that toast and dumped the eggs on my face.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#307417) #
pillar's gone cold again but overall his july was a solid 95wrc+.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#307418) #
Pillar could probably use a day off now and then. He's played almost every game, which he hasn't done for a while. And it's been hot here, lately.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#307419) #
Revere can play CF but Cola in LF?
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#307420) #
haha good one
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#307421) #
Weird, in July he had a 95 wRC+ and in the past 30 days he has a 55 wRC+.

Actually not weird, he was 7 for 9 on July 1/2. Since then, dog poop.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#307422) #
Are you kidding me??? What a brutal job by the homeplate ump.
CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#307423) #
There's bad umping and then there's REALLY bad umping. We are seeing the latter today.
scottt - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#307424) #
That Detroit guy Norris is pretty good. 7  innings of 3 hit  ball against Baltimore.
Four Seamer - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#307425) #
I'm guessing after this display of umpiring, Randy Wolf is about as buried in Buffalo as it is possible to be.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#307426) #
As badly as the game has been run, I thought Sanchez was the first pitcher who actually threw at anyone since the first inning. (Volquez buzzed Donaldson with a changeup that didn't break, and Madson was just wild.)
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#307427) #
Bunt situation, and Pillar is very good - but Smoak is slow and Perez is a huge cat.
CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#307428) #
That may well be true, but when you issue a 1st inning warning the nest time a pitch is up and way in like the one to Donaldson the ump should have thrown Volquez out. He made the bed... He should sleep in it.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#307429) #
That Detroit guy Norris is pretty good.

I heard he lives in a van.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#307430) #
I agree with CeeBee. That's the price you pay for throwing at someone in the 1st inning.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#307431) #
Well, Angel Hernandez is the crew chief. Wolf trying to be part of the team. Solidarity in ineptitude.
CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#307432) #
Sad but probably true...... misery loves company I guess.
Jimbag - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#307433) #
Do you come back with Osuna in the 9th after the long bottom half of the 8th?


JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#307434) #
May depend on this AB (not saying that's correct).
CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#307435) #
One thing bad umpiring can really do is create an intense rivalry between teams on occasion.
Magpie - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#307436) #
In Cincinnati (game ongoing), with warnings already issued, Melancon was just ejected for hitting a guy in the bottom of the ninth. Seeing as how it brought the tying run to the plate, I doubt it was intentional.
Jimbag - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#307437) #
It's still his save, but this is dragging on.


CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#307438) #
One day we will more than likely have some form of AI umpiring. Not sure if it will be a good thing or not but as technology improves and umpiring doesn't it will probably happen.
CeeBee - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#307439) #
Goins might not be a great hitter but he sure uses the leather nicely.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#307440) #
Well, a Syndergaardesque performance from Dickey today. Let's hope Price can put up a Norrisian performance tomorrow.
eudaimon - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#307441) #
Helluva game and series. That was championship caliber stuff, other than
the umpires (who one can only hope will not be invited).
Alex Obal - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#307442) #
Fever dreaming.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#307443) #
almost sacrificed my tv to the baseball gods. fricken umps.

how the hell is Angel Hernandez not even the most embarassing ump on a crew?

anyways - great win, great series. we looked significantly better than the AL leaders this series....and they had their top guys on the mound.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#307444) #
O's lost, Twins are down 1-0 in the 9th, Yankees are crushing the White Sox, Angels just started vs. LAD.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#307445) #
Dozier just hit a bomb to tie the game at 1. Man, the Mariner's cannot score runs.
Mike Green - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#307446) #
Solid win.

The club does need a 4th outfielder...
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#307447) #
speaking of......

....pompey didn't play today.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#307448) #
"Weird, in July he had a 95 wRC+ and in the past 30 days he has a 55 wRC+.

Actually not weird, he was 7 for 9 on July 1/2. Since then, dog poop."

and now he has a 395wrc+ over August 1/2.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#307449) #
Pretty entertaining series.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#307450) #
Wait, what? I'm confused. Pillar has been 0 for 8 in August, he has a -100 wRC+.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#307451) #
heh. yup. for some reason my mind switched to talking about Colabello.
ogator - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#307452) #
After being tossed from the game, Gibby was on the field for the bench clearing (albeit as a peace keeper). Will that result in a serious suspension?
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#307453) #
twins lose.

So Price could get us a playoff spot tommorrow all by himself.

that would be a pretty cool debut.

his PLAR would be through the roof.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#307454) #
Haha okay that makes more sense
greenfrog - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#307455) #
The Angels are losing 3-2 in the eighth. Also, it looks as if CJ Wilson is going to have season-ending surgery to remove bone spurs in his elbow.
JB21 - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#307456) #
Angels battled back in the 9th but eventually lost. They're now 1-9 in their last 10.
Kasi - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#307459) #
Dickey has been amazing the last two months, 2.7 era. I have to think at this point that his option will be picked up. He might also end up being our best pitcher down the stretch.
uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#307460) #
well...if we're looking at just the last 2 months....since the start of june....

Buehrle 1.97era
Price 2.13
Dickey 2.70
Estrada 3.31
greenfrog - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#307461) #
My goal for the Jays is to secure the overall WC lead over the next week or two, then relentlessly close ground on, and eventually surpass, the Yankees. With the talent on hand and the number of head-to-head matchups against the Bronx Bombers, they can make up six games over the next two months, although a bit of luck here and there would help.
85bluejay - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#307462) #
Both Daniel Norris and Noah Syndergaard had impressive performances today.
John Northey - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#307463) #
Dang.  Nice lately.  Checking league totals...
  • As starters: Jays ranked #10 by ERA at 4.33 Oakland's 3.10 leads and shows that it takes more than pitching to win
  • As relievers: #6 by ERA but dead last by saves
  • Offense: #1 by a mile in runs per game at 5.30, next is the Yanks at 4.85 then Houston at 4.47.  Tampa dead last at 3.61 - someone needs to show Tampa hitters which end of the bat to use.
  • By sOPS+ Jays are #2 at CA, #8 at 1B, #7 at 2B, #1 at 3B, #4 at SS, #10 in LF (ugh), #9 in CF, #5 in RF, #3 at DH, #3 at P, #1 for PH, #1 for all infielders, #7 in the OF

JohnL - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#307464) #
Purely a co-incidence, but after all the brushbacks & hit batters today, I happened to watch the documentary about Dock Ellis, "No No: A Dockumentary" (Highly recommended).

I knew him basically as the guy who threw a no-hitter while on acid. (Well, he did walk 8 & hit 1 or 2). Not surprising, since he said all he could see of the batters was whether they were right or left-handed. And he did claim he was on drugs every single game he pitched.

But he was, in all respects, a free spirit, and one that spoke up when it came to the situation for black players. There's a scene in the movie where Ellis reads aloud a letter from Jackie Robinson congratulating him for his courage. Ellis can hardly finish it through his tears.

But, back to the hit batters... Ellis's biographer, former US Poet Laureate Donald Hall writes about the time in 1974, when Ellis promised to hit every single Cincinnati Red in a game.

Came close as he could too, before getting yanked.

Haven't even touched on the hair curlers...

uglyone - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#307465) #
"Both Daniel Norris and Noah Syndergaard had impressive performances today"

not as good as dickey had.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 02 2015 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#307466) #
The Jays' Organization lives in absolute terror of another B.J. Ryan scenario and forbids anyone going there.

In April the Jays were 2-5 in one-run games. Four of the five losses were accredited to Relievers. Other months are similar. Time for an Organization to grow up don't you think?
John Northey - Monday, August 03 2015 @ 12:02 AM EDT (#307467) #
When looking at how guys who are gone have done we need to factor in who is here and who else went.  Significant trades...
Gone: Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes, Wuilmer Becerra, John Buck, Travis d'Arnaud, Noah Syndergaard, Justin Nicolino, Henderson Alvarez, Anthony DeSclafani, Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, Jake Marisnick, Jeff Mathis, Brad Lincoln, Liam Hendriks, Erik KratzAnthony Gose, Franklin Barreto, Kendall Graveman, Brett Lawrie, Sean Nolin, J.A. Happ, Jeff Hoffman, Jesus Tinoco, Miguel Castro, Jose Reyes, Jairo Labourt, Matt Boyd, Daniel Norris, Jake Brentz, Nick Wells, Rob Rasmussen, Jimmy Cordero, and Alberto Tirado
Added: Esmil Rogers, R.A. Dickey, Josh Thole,Emilio Bonifacio, John Buck, Mark Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes, Erik Kratz, Rob Rasmussen, Danny Valencia, Devon Travis, Josh Donaldson, Michael Saunders, LaTroy Hawkins, Troy Tulowitzki,David Price, Mark Lowe, Ben Revere.

Those are most if not all trades since the winter AA decided to 'go for it'.  Note how many names are on both 'gone' and 'added'.  Clearly AA has no problem letting go of guys.  In the Added guys still here are Dickey, Thole, Buehrle, Travis, Donaldson, Saunders, Hawkins, Tulowtzki, Price, Lowe, Revere.  So 11 players (one in minors, 2 on DL) for a bucketload of prospects.  It'll be interesting to see where the Jays minors rank after this year.
92-93 - Tuesday, August 04 2015 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#307618) #
I'm very confused by the concept that the Jays shouldn't offer Mark Buehrle a qualifying offer because he was nice enough to honor his contract and pitch happily in Toronto.

Melky Cabrera has hit .353/.393/.567 over the last 2 months.
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