One more, if you please
Matchup
Bieber (4-2, 3.57) vs Rodon (18-9, 3.09)
earlier in the season ned flanders would have got called out on ball 3 of that at bat.
That's incredible. There's hot and then there is whatever Vlad is.
Not what you want from a “defensive specialist”
i just realized they're batting clement ahead of santander.
Great job to get out of it before things could really turn, but that’s still such a costly error by IKF. Give up a run that shouldn’t have happened, make Bieber throw a dozen extra pitches, give the Yankees some hope. Not cool.
As was said in the other thread, if you wanted to put a defensive specialist in there, you could have had Davis at 2B and Straw in the outfield.
Right now, that looks like it would have been the far better choice, as it's cost them one run and 12 pitches for Bieber.
Right now, that looks like it would have been the far better choice, as it's cost them one run and 12 pitches for Bieber.
IKF never made sense here. What's with all these high popups off Rodon?
still can't believe we don't play schneider every day.
Arden Zwelling
@ArdenZwelling
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s bat speed on his first-inning homer was 85.1-mph — just shy of his season-high 86-mph set in May.
So far this postseason, Guerrero's average bat speed (78.9-mph) is MLB's highest and two mph faster than it was during the regular season (76.7-mph)
attaboy Davis that's some heads up shit right there.
Ernie!!!
Naturally Vlad shouldn’t have gone because they were risking injury with Bellinger throwing.
Naturally Vlad shouldn’t have gone because they were risking injury with Bellinger throwing.
Using your best infield defense made plenty of sense with Bieber on the mound tbh
smart of us to bring our Man in White on the road with us this time.
Wow Rodon doesn't even make it through the 3rd.
Yeah, the jays sure play different at home... or something.
I like that stat that the Yankee starters in the first 3 games have no outs in the 4th inning.
I like that stat that the Yankee starters in the first 3 games have no outs in the 4th inning.
Game of inches. If Bellinger caught that ball, Davis Schneider could have been doubled off.
Very true, Gerry. Likewise with Clement’s hit, if McMahon had shifted a step to his left instead of his right, possible double play ball.
That said, the Jays baserunning has been brilliant/insane and daring the entire series. Force the Yankees to make plays and so far they’re just not doing so.
That said, the Jays baserunning has been brilliant/insane and daring the entire series. Force the Yankees to make plays and so far they’re just not doing so.
they've been on Bieber tonight, especially the big righties.
i'm inclined to give bieber one more line drive then pull him.
Just tuning in now…did I miss anything exciting?
"Wow Rodon doesn't even make it through the 3rd."
Unfortunately, neither does Shane.
Unfortunately, neither does Shane.
I don’t like this pull. John is asking for a lot here from his bullpen.
True — but the move paid off. Every multiple-runners-on situation is huge right now, especially with a 6-3 lead. Time to go all out to win this one, worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
"Where was that 3-1 pitch to Chisholm?!?"
he called that pitch for us the other way at least once maybe twice. can't be mad.
he called that pitch for us the other way at least once maybe twice. can't be mad.
yeah i think bieber had to be pulled unfortunately.
not that i'm happy with trying to go 6 innings with the pen of course.
not that i'm happy with trying to go 6 innings with the pen of course.
regular seaon i think the hook was too quick. but in a game where you can eliminate the yanks -- i say just on time.
Already forced McMahon out of the game for a PH. McMahon has been one of the Yankees best hitters recently, and he’s one of their better defenders. Another slight advantage accruing to the Blue Jays in this game.
....and McMahon's missing defense immediately pays dividends...
The Jays are carrying 11 relievers so they can afford to pull Bieber and have a bullpen game tomorrow.
If the Blue Jays can apply some pressure with the bats in the next couple of innings, they could break this thing open. New York doesn’t have a lot of great options remaining in the bullpen, unless they want to “break glass in case of emergency” and use Schlittler.
why did barger call for that Schneider could have easily got there. dammit.
now fluharty is rattled. dammit.
some costly costly errors tonight.
some costly costly errors tonight.
Brutal error, but just have to keep getting outs.
Hate the Bieber call, and the Fluharty call.
Overall can’t complain, but somebody from further than Nova Scotia wants Schneider “wants to murder him”, (not really).
Overall can’t complain, but somebody from further than Nova Scotia wants Schneider “wants to murder him”, (not really).
Barger error…devastating
Varland 0-2 pitch to Judge…devastating
Varland 0-2 pitch to Judge…devastating
I did not trust Varland in that moment, but they’ll get it back.
not gonna lie that was actually a cool moment.
now we can beat them and they can't blame it on judge who has actually been awesome this series.
now we can beat them and they can't blame it on judge who has actually been awesome this series.
I'm curious how many parks that isn't a homer in.
I still think the Blue Jays have a great shot to win. The Yankees bullpen is not good.
If the Jays have Schneider at 2B, Straw in RF and Clement at 3B, they might have not allowed four of these runs.
Overall I think the Jays ability to put the ball in play combined with the atrocious Yankees defense will have us pull us ahead. The grand equalizer = Vladdy right now.
Schneider arguably got greedy pinch-hitting Barger for IKF with a solid lead after the Yankees brought in Cruz. He maybe should have stayed with the status quo for defensive reasons and because IKF is an experienced veteran in a key ballgame.
I think we forget that Ernie played through a broken hand for a while there.
tough luck but santander taking some good hacks is very good news.
Admittedly I liked the Barger for IKF swap.
How could anybody not love Ernie Clement right now.
Honestly Santander has been swinging it pretty good, even if Judge made made a good grab there.
How could anybody not love Ernie Clement right now.
Honestly Santander has been swinging it pretty good, even if Judge made made a good grab there.
The problem when you PH early is that the player can get exposed later on — as Barger was there, striking out against the lefty Tim Hill with the go-ahead runner on second base.
personally, i think schneider made all the right calls but the players are not delivering. normally, barger is good defensively at third base and I think the switch made sense for many reasons but some are IKF was not doing great on either side of the ball and barger is a better hitter against righties.
As for the beiber hook -- it just wasn't a good night for him and the bullpen i think was more likely than beibs to keep the yanks in check. didn't happen but ...
As for the beiber hook -- it just wasn't a good night for him and the bullpen i think was more likely than beibs to keep the yanks in check. didn't happen but ...
I started the game 45 minutes late. I really disliked the the Shane Bieber pull. I would have let him go until another batter reached. He made good pitches to Chisholm.
The Barger pinch hit I also didn't like. Fluharty call from pen was also not a move I liked. All of this happened in the first 3 innings...up 5 runs. It's like he's managing scared or paranoid. Now instead of Bieber giving up the lead and only one pitcher used (worse case) the Jays head into the 5th using 3 pitchers and given up the lead. I just think it's wishful to think you can close out the Yankees for 6 innings with your starter and two top BP arms now out of the game.
The Barger pinch hit I also didn't like. Fluharty call from pen was also not a move I liked. All of this happened in the first 3 innings...up 5 runs. It's like he's managing scared or paranoid. Now instead of Bieber giving up the lead and only one pitcher used (worse case) the Jays head into the 5th using 3 pitchers and given up the lead. I just think it's wishful to think you can close out the Yankees for 6 innings with your starter and two top BP arms now out of the game.
a clean inning here would do wonders for them and us.
I know I'm late on this, but I don't understand how Varland didn't waste a pitch or two outside the zone with Judge -- How can you give him anything to possibly turn on with an 0-2 count? Devastating.
I'm not trying to go negative, I've just seen the Yankees beat us so many times in the Bronx.
Here's hoping they've stemmed the bleeding and will find a few more runs to win this thing!
I'm not trying to go negative, I've just seen the Yankees beat us so many times in the Bronx.
Here's hoping they've stemmed the bleeding and will find a few more runs to win this thing!
Varland is back to being bad Varland…at the worst possible time. Gah.
Varland will ultimately be the move we shouldn’t have made at the deadline and the move we shouldn’t have made tonight.
"a clean inning here would do wonders for them and us."
Alas....
Alas....
4th pitcher after 4.1 innings. It's possible to over manage. I'm not going to say this manager made the wrong calls. I just would have preferred a bit of confidence in the SP.
blu-j: I completely agree. 0-2 to Judge and Varland has a great knuckle-curve. Have to throw one low and away there I think, similar to the one he just struck out Stanton on. Then maybe a fastball away or high and away, etc.
I don't know that Varland gets much blame, it seemed like he made good pitches, the Yankees just hit them.
The Yankees are a top flight offense.
The Yankees are a top flight offense.
If they can't come back and win this, what will the pen availability look like tomorrow? We still have at least 3+ innings to get through.
Can't give up on this one, of course, but tomorrow could be challenging, even with so many pitchers on the roster.
Can't give up on this one, of course, but tomorrow could be challenging, even with so many pitchers on the roster.
More context... when I saw Bieber struggling I didn't think "he's off tonight so bring someone else in." I thought "it's going to be tough to hold this offense, minimize the damage and get me 5 IP before I go to the BP."
Also: I didn’t mind going inside to Judge with the 100 MPH FB, but at 0-2 you have to go up and in, not just in.
The Jays have run with aggressive pulls throughout the postseason under Atkins/Schneider. We should probably just expect it to be a regular part of their philosophy.
Pulling Bieber seemed a little premature. That being said, Gausman looked like he was very close to getting out of his inning when he was pulled.
However, that was the sixth and not the third.
Pulling Bieber seemed a little premature. That being said, Gausman looked like he was very close to getting out of his inning when he was pulled.
However, that was the sixth and not the third.
I am curious to see who is going to pitch the 6, 7, 8 and 9th. And then tomorrow...
Wheels coming off. The Barger error was the pivot point. No margin for error against the Yankees in their ballpark.
Comeback still possible, of course.
Comeback still possible, of course.
vladdy makes the 3rd bad defensive miscue of the game.
nerves.
nerves.
They can still win this game but why the ultra aggressive pitching changes when in the lead? Now that they are behind we will probably see the same pitcher for a few innings.
at this point i am expecting both teams will be in double digits when the game is over. i think the result is completely up for grabs.
Bad defense and bad pitching makes it hard to win games. Problem with Varland remains, no command. It was a helluva swing by Judge, but Varland also threw 3 pitches and didn’t change Judge’s eye level once. Still lots of time left for their own comeback now.
ok so now a clean inning is kind of a necessity.
If the Jays lose this game, then what do they do tomorrow? They have to run the same relievers out there again and hope they shut the Yankees down. I think they should have at least tried to get Bieber to get to the 5th inning. Now it's essentially 2 bullpen games in a row if they can't make a comeback here. What a potential disaster.
Anyone else worried we're going to see Gausman tomorrow on short rest because of today's managerial decisions?
so in the statcast era no hitter has ever hit a homer off a pitch as fast and as off the plate as Judge just did off varland.
he's good.
he's good.
How the hell can you expect to bullpen your way in Yankee stadium for 15 innings???? This is madness.
Just one of the worst defensive games I remember this season. Two errors, Vlad missing a grounded he should have had and now Santander just missing a routine fly out. Cost them a bunch of runs.
To repeat myself, Straw over IKF (probably) solves at least two of these miscues, and several runs. Maybe a third.
Whichever team scores 10 first wins this game.
Probably the ballgame.
Santander might have injured his wrist or hand on the diving attempted catch.
The question for Schneider is whether to go with Gausman game 4 and Yesavage in game 5, or a bullpen game (and likely loss against Cam) in game 4, placing all bets on a Gausman/Trey game 5 in Toronto.
If you wanted to make the case for Gausman in game 4, you could focus on the fact that he didn’t throw a ton of pitches in game 1. Not sure what I would do in that situation.
Santander might have injured his wrist or hand on the diving attempted catch.
The question for Schneider is whether to go with Gausman game 4 and Yesavage in game 5, or a bullpen game (and likely loss against Cam) in game 4, placing all bets on a Gausman/Trey game 5 in Toronto.
If you wanted to make the case for Gausman in game 4, you could focus on the fact that he didn’t throw a ton of pitches in game 1. Not sure what I would do in that situation.
Not exactly. If the Jays score 10 then they will go to Hoffman.
In summary, not a well-played game by the Blue Jays.
The ump hasn't called the high strikes.
It's kinda important to take note and adjust.
Also, George isn't having a great series.
It's kinda important to take note and adjust.
Also, George isn't having a great series.
Gausman threw 75 pitches in game 1.
If you’re saving him for game 5, does Yesavage also pitch in game 5? What is the realistic plan to win this series if the Blue Jays lose game 3 tonight?
If you’re saving him for game 5, does Yesavage also pitch in game 5? What is the realistic plan to win this series if the Blue Jays lose game 3 tonight?
Madison Shipman and Joe Siddall on the broadcast agreeing that pulling Bieber was the right call, pointing out that he didn’t look good and was leaving a lot of pitches middle-middle.
Yeah that doesn't convince me. You don't have a starter for game 4 so...
Also, Bieber is a mix and match pitcher m. He can get away with middle pitches even though it's not ideal. Hitters can't really sit on his pitches like they can Varland.
Also, Bieber is a mix and match pitcher m. He can get away with middle pitches even though it's not ideal. Hitters can't really sit on his pitches like they can Varland.
seems smart to let both gausman and yesavage start again.
so gausman on short rest (but only 75 pitches in the past 9 days), and Yesavage on regular rest.
and the only reliever who seems to be burnt at all tommorrow would be Varland.
so gausman on short rest (but only 75 pitches in the past 9 days), and Yesavage on regular rest.
and the only reliever who seems to be burnt at all tommorrow would be Varland.
Bieber looked awful. If they had left him in, it would have been to maybe on or two more batters and then he'd be out for top of lineup. There was no way he was going to face them again. Ernie doing his part but rest of offense has checked out since relievers came in.
Pulling Bieber was probably the right move because Flu promptly escaped the jam. Everything comes back to the Barger error, which opened the door to the Yankees comeback. Sometimes you only get one shot.
Bieber did not look good. I had no issues with pulling him. The Jays were leading and needed the pen to lock things down. Unfortunately the defense let them down and Varland was giving up home runs (which I'm sure pleased at least one poster here).
The biggest issue is that Bieber not giving them length combined with the team blowing the lead means that Game 4 is going to be tough to win. They really needed him to pitch at least 5. I would have tried to see if Bieber could have gotten out of the 3rd, so you can nitpick on when exactly to pull him, but otherwise, I think it was smart to pull him before he blew the lead. He didn't look like he had much in the tank tonight.
The thing about Gausman is that he has already been dependant on extra rest in recent weeks. Reducing his rest to less-than-normal seems risky.
Having Gausman-Yesavage-Seranthony-Hoffman available in game 5 might be the most important thing right now. Because right now it feels like that’s where we’re headed.
Having Gausman-Yesavage-Seranthony-Hoffman available in game 5 might be the most important thing right now. Because right now it feels like that’s where we’re headed.
ok, top of the order, let's break their fricken hearts.
Madison, explaining why she agreed that pulling Bieber was the right call, noted that of the 12 balls put in play against him, 8 of them came off the bat at 100+ MPH. He was getting hit hard.
Team just looked shell shocked after the Barger error/Judge homer. All is not lost but they have to play way more competent defensively than what we saw tonight (with this level of brilliant insight it’s a wonder I don’t work as an MLB analyst somewhere). That was flat out weird and so irritating.
Jays have been really good at grinding starters to dust. Continuing to do so against Schlittler would help things a ton.
Jays have been really good at grinding starters to dust. Continuing to do so against Schlittler would help things a ton.
Even if it’s advantage Yankees tomorrow (playing at home with Schlittler starting), wins are not guaranteed in baseball. Play hard, execute well, deploy the bullpen arms well, and the Blue Jays could win tomorrow. Show up and compete and good things can happen. Worst case, you’re playing a game 5 with some really good arms available on the mound.
If Jays had had even just one of Bieber not sucking/bullpen not sucking/defense not sucking/offense after third inning not sucking, they still might have won the game. Just an all-around terrible performance except for a few hitters.
For lineup tomorrow, it's funny because I would have gone IKF in this game because he hits RH velocity.
For lineup tomorrow, it's funny because I would have gone IKF in this game because he hits RH velocity.
Probably 35-40% chance of a win tomorrow, give it your best shot and maybe you pull it out. If not, push all the chips to the middle of the table and play game 5 at the RC behind Gausman, Yesavage and the best leverage bullpen arms on the team.
Not ideal, but that is now the situation at hand.
Not ideal, but that is now the situation at hand.
I wonder if you start bullpen like an opener and then assess do you put one of Yesavage or Gausman in the 3rd inning or something if the Jays do well in the first few innings, but go full bullpen if the game isn't close.