Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Sunday Roundup - Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog

Sunday Roundup - Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog

Where no one notices the contrast of white on white
And in between the moon and you the angels get a better view
Of the crumbling difference between wrong and right
I walk in the air between the rain through myself and back again
Where? I don’t know

Yesterday was an ugly game as the Jays dropped a 6-0 decision to the Yankees.

* Recaps
Lilly outdueled by El Duque, Yanks - Fordin
Too much El Duque - Ganter
El Duque handcuffs Jays hitters - Blair
Jays fall victim to patient Yanks - Baker

* Notes
Gross makes Jays debut - Fordin
Blue Jay Watch - Choice Picks in Jays Outfield - Ganter

* More from the Phelps trade for Crozier. This is from Baseball America:

Crozier, 25, was a 41st-round pick out of Norfolk State in 2002, when he led the Mid-Eastern Conference in hitting at .376. His bat is his ticket, especially as his power has emerged with 39 homers in 643 at-bats over the last two seasons. He has played primarily first base, but he also can play left field and has enough arm strength for right.

* Don't know the ins and outs of the trading period in August? Allan Ryan explains in Making waves on the waiver wire

* Never mind the stench — it's just a rotten ball team - Griffin

* Today' Game - El Artista takes the hill for the Jays. The Yankees will send Jon Lieber to the mound. Game starts at 1:05.

Question of the Day:
Based on what you've seen so far, if you could sign Alexis Rios to a contract similar to Hinske and Wells today (5 years, $15 million) would you do it? Are there any other Jays that you'd like to see signed up long term?

Posted by Pistol on Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:07 AM EDT.

Sunday Roundup - Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog | 18 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_John Northey - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#44501) #

Would I sign Rios long term? Not yet unless it was for less than Hinske/Wells got (around $14 million). The next two years are at $300k no matter what, then maybe one more year at $300k depending on the 'super 2' status, then comes 3 years of arbitration. For it to be worthwhile for the Jays they'd need to sign him for at least 5-6 years and I can't picture them doing that this quickly. Too much risk for too little reward. If Rios takes a 5-6 year deal at under $10 million then I'd go for it but more than that? Nah.

Mike Green - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#44502) #

The headline to Griffin's article does not accurately reflect the tone of the article. This is not the first time.

_Jim - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#44503) #

Living Round Here, I am awfully sick of counting the wins of the mercenaries.

_ScottS - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#44504) #

Sigh. After yesterday, things look pretty grim 'Round Here.
I'm thinking the Jays may actually finish last this year, given the way they're playing against the Yanks.

_Jim - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#44505) #

Quick question for the rules gurus.

I'm under the impression that PTBNL have to change leagues. Does this restriction end in the offseason. A friend and I are just wondering about the deal in November of 1997 that sent Brosius to the Yankees. He clearly didn't change leagues, and we were just wondering how they got around that.

Pistol - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#44506) #

The headline to Griffin's article does not accurately reflect the tone of the article. This is not the first time.

Yeah, I agree.

Pistol - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#44507) #

A hearty cheer for Jim:

WHOOOO HOO JIM!

Pistol - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#44508) #

if you could sign Alexis Rios to a contract similar to Hinske and Wells today (5 years, $15 million) would you do it?

If I'm allowed to answer my own question I'd go with yes.

I suspect the team will wait another year before deciding.

_A - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#44509) #

The headline to Griffin's article does not accurately reflect the tone of the article.

Griffin irks me at least once or twice a week pretty bad but that headline was just rubbish. I still take issue with him throwing in jabs like "pseudo-ace" but it really wasn't a bad article.

As much as I'm sure he gets a kick out of it, Griffin will no doubt receive a dozen angry emails today based solely on the headline.

_A - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#44510) #

I'd go with yes.

The Jays and Alex, I would imagine, are on very good terms and there's no reason to believe that's changing any time soon. Unless you can get a hometown discount like John's suggesting, why not wait to see what kind of commodity you've really got? For the cash-conscious team, a $3 Million expenditure on a guy who's played even a season and a half seems a little outrageous. If the Jays can pay him 300k for the next three years, I'd wait two of those years before looking longer term. By that point, Rios will be less of a "projection" risk, he'll have demonstrated something in the way of durability and shown how he handles himself in the clubhouse.

Blue Jays baseball is about taking as much risk out of the game as possible -- signing Rios for 5 or 6 years at this point is increasing the risk factor tremendously more than necessary.

Pistol - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#44511) #

Blue Jays baseball is about taking as much risk out of the game as possible -- signing Rios for 5 or 6 years at this point is increasing the risk factor tremendously more than necessary.

But if you wait you run the risk of having to pay him significantly more down the road, such as the case was with Halladay.

_Rob - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#44512) #

Baker's game recap is just stupid:
Watching the opposing shortstop yesterday would have given Blue Jays rookie Gabe Gross a head start on learning how to win.

Oh, come on. That's got to be hyperbole. I believe Gross (and the Ravens, of course) made the finals last year in AA, anyway.

Gross made his major-league debut in left field and was credited with a single in his first at-bat when Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter lost his pop-fly in the sun. But Jeter rarely causes his team to lose and by the fifth inning had found a subtle, yet effective way to emerge victorious by drawing a critical two-out walk

Yeah, the walk more than makes up for the "hit" he gave Gross. Could that have been more of an error? But, of course, Mr. Clutch is too good for sunglasses.

_Marc - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#44513) #

As much as I'm sure he gets a kick out of it, Griffin will no doubt receive a dozen angry emails today based solely on the headline.

Newspaper writers most often do not write their own headlines... it is usually the editors in each section, or larger papers have editors simply devoted to writing headlines. Often you simply skim the first paragraph or two to get the idea of the column and write it from there. I often write headlines for stories I haven't written and see headlines on my stories that I did not create.

_A - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#44514) #

such as the case was with Halladay.

But look at the process it took to get Halladay to that point. He came up, had some early success and then continued to fall apart to the point that he went down to Dunedin, reconstructed his motion and made his way back over an entire year to the Big Club. If we sign up Rios now and have to go through that process it really won't be efficient use of the resources.

Newspaper writers most often do not write their own headlines

That was my point -- Griffin's going to get the heat without cause on this one.

_Jonny German - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#44515) #

He came up, had some early success and then continued to fall apart to the point that he went down to Dunedin, reconstructed his motion and made his way back over an entire year to the Big Club.

Halladay on a 5-year deal following his smoke-and-mirrors success in in 1999 would have looked terrible in 2000 and fantastic since then. His struggles in the 2000 season demonstrate the risk, but he's not a good example of why you shouldn't sign these deals.

Eric Hinske could turn out to be a case-in-point against these deals, but I still think he'll turn out just fine when it's all said and done. Vernon Wells could be an exclamation mark on why you take these risks, he'll be an incredible bargain through what would have been his arbitration years.

Rios? I think the Jays will and should wait until the end of 2005.

_Cristian - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#44516) #

An emphatic NO!

Let's see how Rios does after every team has a scouting report on the guy and pitchers learn his weaknesses. If Rios can adjust, then talk long term contract with him. If you jump the gun you end up shelling out 15 million for Eric Hinske.

Mike Green - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#44517) #

I don't think it matters terribly, whether you do or you don't. Rios is going to cost about that for the next 5 years one way or the other. The more interesting question is whether you can do a Pujols-style long-term deal, albeit with somewhat lower numbers, after one of the young-uns puts up 2 or 3 good years. Rios might be a candidate for that in 2006 or 2007.

_Rob - Sunday, August 08 2004 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#44518) #

I was just clicking through Richard Griffin's articles and found this re: Rios.

Instead, they have benched the two [Woodward and Phelps] and stick with a struggling Alex Rios in the outfield, batting .244 with one RBI, who by all rights should still be putting in time at Triple-A Syracuse.
(June 26)

Quite simply, Rios needs to play right now. He's not going to learn anything more if he goes back to Triple A.
(July 11)

Funny how one man's opinion changes in 15 days, isn't it? All Rios had to do was start hitting well for two weeks, and he's suddenly an important part of the team, rather than a player who must be farmed out.

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