After a weekend away, I'm looking forward to watching tonight's game. And by the way Robert, it's chAmping at the bit.

Uh - yah. That's what I meant.

I respectfully demand that Toronto sweeps this series.

Doug Mientckerkjlerke is the Sox 2B tonight.

Mientkiewicz (did I spell that right?) playing second? Craziness.

respectfully demand that Toronto sweeps this series

If your Lucas from Texas you guys should have made demands of Rangers managemant and picked up an arm! Don't lay any blame on this years Blue Jays for the W.C berth.

Heres the deal. Minky and Theo have a pact to get Theo out of the Sox fans soup.

That DP couldn't have been more perfect for a (former) first basemen-it was like he was scooping a throw. A nice turn nonetheless by Dougie M.

A bad situation suddenly got much better, thanks to the umpires reversing a call in our favour.

Haven't had many opportunities to say that this season...

HI MY NAME IS TERRY F> I MADE A NICE LINE UP WITH LOTS OF PLAYERS IN IT AND I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK .I ESPECIALY LIKE ORLANDO CABRERA HITTING SEVENTH AND BILL MILLER HITTING EIGTH BECAUSE CABRARA HITS LOTS OF HOME RUNS AND HE'S STRONG.

Holy Crap Delgado bodychecked Dougie!!!! Old Time Hockey!!! He clearly leaned right to smoke him!

Terry! I love the idea of "second baseman Doug Mientkiewicz."

This Sox squad is having some injury problems, eh?

What a play by Delgado! He run over Dougie M to avoid the DP, then calmly ran off the field as Mient bitched about it. Fairly funny that we were just talking about that Belle/Vina play (Sox announcers are talking about it now too) a few days ago.

Old Time Hockey!!!

EDDIE SHORE!

(It's in Boston... how appropriate...)

I know Da Box has grilled Delgado,Hinske (a 15 mil dollar mistake),Tosca,Lightenberg, Adams,Spier,and JP this season .... but where's the grilling of Wells?

Even I will admit with all the disasters this season I've overlooked V-Dub, and reading Scott Carson's recent article he said V-Dub has been the 2nd most disappointing Jay this season behind Delgado.

What happened to his HR power and his ability to drive in runs? I shudder to think what his RISP BA is this season.

Miller can't hit the strike zone. Not good.

where's the grilling of Wells?

Are we not being negative enough, Ron? :)

Hey Lucas, don't call me Francis and I'm not participating on any more expeditions. ;)

It's time for V-Dub to be in the hot seat:)

Wells was hitting near .300 for awhile. After his recent slump, he's still at .280-not all that shabby on a club with basically no one over .300

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/stats/tor_sortable_player_stats.jsp?baseballScope=AL&subScope=teamCode&statType=1&sitSplit=rsp&venueID=null&timeSubFrame2=null&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2004&teamPosCode=tor
Ask and ye shall receive, Ron. COMN for Blue Jays RISP stats.

Wells is at .202/.288/.323. Definitely shudder-worthy.

Good pitch on 1-2 from Miller to Varitek.

Miller can't hit the strike zone. Not good.

Yeah, this is looking very much like his last start. He walked 4 I think. Very un Justin Miller like.

He did wiggle out of a potential big inning though.

He got a lot of help from the hitters - something every pitcher needs sometimes.

Someone tell Carlos that occasionally first basemen are asked to STRETCH to try and complete a play and more importantly a possible double play.

I think Carlos just assumed that Varitek was going to be safe so he hopped off the bag to catch it. It wouldn't have for him to give a little stretch, the throw wasn't even that far up the line.

Oh well, 1-0 Sox

The first few AB's from the Jays haven't looked promising. Lots of soft grounders, and even a few choppers.

Wow, I had no idea lefties were mashing Justin Miller to the tune of a 389 batting average. That's horrific.

Righties on the other hand, are only hitting 189 against Justin.

Yes, Miller caught a few breaks last week too. I hope this slick mound doesn't worry Miller and his hammy - I suspect he's still not right but is willing himself to pitch. He is not showing the command he did in May / June.

Jp's in the booth on sportsnet.

Lowe has had a good sinker tonight-but Cash wasn't close on any of them. Lowe probably threw 6 balls and Cash swung at 3 of them.

Can we make it so that Kevin Cash never bats again... EVER??

Ugh, Rios has had 2 ugly strikeouts too. I hope Lowe's sinker starts flattening out-he's looking tough (surprise, the Jays hitters making a struggling pitcher look good).

No, we can't. Can we make it so that you cease your litany of incessant complaints?

On the question of the Tosca firing he said "I couldn't stand by while the club wasn't going about his business in the proper way".

I feel sorry for Cash when he comes to the plate. From all accounts he's a great young guy and real hard worker but at the plate .... he's so over-matched by just about every ML pitcher.

JP: Season from Hell

Proof he reads DA BOX!!!!

Nice bodycheck by Carlos. I'm not sure why he came off the bag there though. If he stretches a little the play would have been bang-bang at first and you want to at least give your pitcher and team a chance at the DP. The only thing I can think of is that he thought the footing was too wet to stretch.

Miller looked alot better in the 3rd.

JP just said that they had actually claimed a couple player but they were not able to work out a deal. Hmm.

Nice small ball run scored just as JP was talking about it. Good one.

Crozier and Adams up in Sept.

Also considering bringing up Brandon League in September.

I'll just ignore that comment Craig.

James, I would assume that he's thinking of bringing League up as a starter?

He mentioned that they've had him starting in the minors to work on his slider. It seemed like they'd be bringing him up just to give him some "major league experience"... I'm not totally sure if that translates to starter or bullpen.

J.P. may have said which; my mind lost focus of what he was saying while I was typing the previous message, sorry.

I completely agree about Cash. It's sad watching him hit. I truly feel sorry for him.

And again, not trying to start anything, but why is it that we aren't allowed to make negative observations here?

Just when JP mentions the RISP struggles .... and then BAM scuffle monster hits into the ending inning DP!

I want JP to stay for the whole game.

JP also mentioned that McGowan is coming along as expected. Should be throwing in April/May. On the mound by July. Hopes he will be in game situations for the end of the year and maybe Arizona Fall League.

Boy that looks like a tough game to play in a swamp.

I'll just ignore that comment Craig.

I think you should consider it carefully.

Man, if the Blue Jays can somehow beat the hell out of Boston and knock them out of the playoff race, I will consider this a successful season.

Well done Woody. Now that's how you start a DP. The Jays got screwed by a bad call at first base.

Faulds calling him D-Lowe makes me think I should stop calling him that.

Making negatives comments when things go bad is one thing, being a complete wet blanket on everything, and peppering it with comments of 'pathetic' on a constant basis are another.

I'm disheartened too, but let's not get all RG here; I love it here, but there's times when I just think that it should be to stick to the baseball and leave the over-editorializing at the coffee shop.

No, I'm positive theres still something up with Miller. He does not resemble the pitcher we seen earlier in the yr. Not even close.

Last time I checked my Optimism thermometer it looked like this

July 26th, record 43-55 (71), (78), (84)
July 19 Record 39-52 (72),(78),(88)
July 6/04 Record 36-45 (77),(78),(88)

Now the record is 49-69, with 44 games to go.

my prediction is 18 and 26 for the rest of the season
so, 67 Wins....

Listening to JP talk last week on the radio about how we got ahead of ourselves last year watching all that hitting, I'm revising my 3 year optimism thermometer to
August 16 -- (67), (70), (80)

based on more youth, but less injuries next year and more experience the year after

Josh Towers must be loving this. I'm not sold on Towers but I can't make a strong argument as to why Miller should get the 5th SP nod over Towers.

Thats the wins for 2004, 2005 and 2006,
I accidently edited that out

Curious call to go with the slider when behind in the count but Miller caught too much of the plate with it and that's the danger of trying to throw a strike with a breaking ball. I would not have called that pitch in that situation as you have to be fine with it and Miller is anything but today.

What are Miller's splits as a reliever? IIRC, Towers weren't too pretty in the 'pen. I wouldn't be surprised if they play it by ear in '05 if they're competing for spots, and play the hot hand in and out of the rotation.

Well remember that Miller did not pitch in any real minor league games after his very long injury layoff. I'm still not sure why that's the case. So if he looks like he's trying to shake off a lot of rust that's because he is.

Is it just me, or have all the Blue Jays pitchers had horrible control lately? 5 walks from Miller tonight. Bush struggled a bit, Batista had 5 walks his last start, Ligtenberg had that inning...

I agree with RBillie's possible explanation. Thats basically what i said in his start last week on the game thread. However he didn't look any better tonite, the line says worse.

On the basis of his starts earlier in the year I don't think he's 100%. I don't see any reason why he would not be a very strong contender for a starting job next season. But I recall JP mentioning he seen him in the bullpen. Personally I think that would be waste I think he's a very decent starter when healthy. He has historically had a very good K / BB ratio. This isn't the same Justin Miller we're watching right now.

Miller as reliever (cobbled up and added manually from ESPN's game logs)

This year: 4.1 innings pitched, 7 hits, 5 runs, 3 earned runs, 2 walks, i K, 6.28 ERA.

2002:
9.1 innings, 16 hits, 12 runs, 8 earned runs, 8 walks, 4 K's, 7.74 ERA.

Total:

13.2 innings, 23 hits, 17 runs, 11 earned runs, 10 walks, 5 K's, 7.28 ERA.

This season's stats can be somewhat discounted, because his relief appearances came after his injury, and he didn't have any rehab starts.

This warning is stupid. Carlos knew it was coming. He took it and that's it. He went down to first, no complaining. The game should be left to police itself more often than not.

Nomar woulda had that ;)

Well there's the improved shortstop defence for Boston at work. :)

DOUBLE-G!

Cue the comeback... here comes GGZ.

Man, a big fly here would be sweet.

I can't believe that worked.

Excelllent sacrifice by Groos to get Woody home.

Holy smokes. The Red Sox just kicked the door wide open and let us back into this game.

Gabe Gross looked like Alfredo Griffin out there. Four throws on that rundown.

This is the battle of teams with bad karma. The Sox karma may be worse. Did Gross stumble deliberately?

Nice baserunning by Woody.

why does Cerutti think that play was by design?
is it just me, or was that just a mistake on the basepaths (Gross taking off a little early and getting caught) that paid off with a run...

I enjoy secretely following / rooting against the Sox and thus far Cabrera has been an unmitigated disaster (inning ender extraordinaire).. the sample size is small, but in all honesty he's just not that great (save 1-2 seasons) and the Nomar trade was a poor one any way you look at it.

Gross clearly broke early. One replay showed that Lowe was beginning the old 'fake to third, throw to first' move. I assume Gross realized this a split second too late and froze.

why does Cerutti think that play was by design?

He was just saying that sometimes teams will use that 'play' intentionally, not that the Jays intended to do that.

Speier looked good. He should have been out of the inning 1-2-3 but for the PB-WP. Got Manny, Ortiz and Millar on the K.

Incidently, while JP was on he also said that the team would like to have him back again next season. That sounds good to me.

like clockwork... but there were some powerful forces going up against each other in that AB. 2004 Blue Jays (specifically the pen in this case) vs Orlando Cabrera's knack for ending innings, might be the first battle of the season we won.

Here come's the sarcastic cheers, it's tough to bounce back once you get into the doghouse of Sox fans, especially when the guy you're replacing was Nomah.

Orlando's starting to get his stroke back.

That's certainly a good sign.

Hopefully Vern can buck the trend and get a hit with RISP right now.

God, I miss the old Vernon :(

Delgado walks, but Cat K's. Man, it would just suck if the Jays' (aided) comeback fell short.

Cat seems to be in a pretty good funk. He's swinging and missing more than he usually does-even early in the count.

the Nomar trade was a poor one any way you look at it.

I always thought Theo's line - "I just figured we couldn't win the
World Series with this defense" - was a load. He's made his defense worse by getting all these guys who can't fit into the lineup and therefore need to play out of position.

I think hiring Theo as GM is a mistake. He's traded Nomar, has tried to get rid of Manny and Derek Lowe - he's all ego. It has to be *his* team.

Oh yeah, he fired Grady Little too.

I always thought Theo's line - "I just figured we couldn't win the
World Series with this defense" - was a load. He's made his defense worse by getting all these guys who can't fit into the lineup and therefore need to play out of position.

I think hiring Theo as GM is a mistake. He's traded Nomar, has tried to get rid of Manny and Derek Lowe - he's all ego. It has to be *his* team.

I agree, 'poor' was actually being generous... it was borderline horrible if you ask me.

It's funny though.. I was reading, I believe it was on the SOSH Sox board, and your last line is almost identical to the opinion one of the fans over there had of JP.

It's funny though.. I was reading, I believe it was on the SOSH Sox board, and your last line is almost identical to the opinion one of the fans over there had of JP.

I was just about to say that you could replace Theo with JP and you'd get the opinion of many people.

Damn. There goes the comeback.......

I'm going to predict another bullpen reassingment drill. Speier will now be the top set-up man, Chulk moves to the sixth or seventh and if Frasor doesn't get right then he'll be moved down as well leaving Speier as the closer.

My God what's wrong with Vinnie Chulk.

Another terrible outing, although you could make an arguement that Gross MAYBE should have caught that ball. Tough play though.

lol... Vinnie "Choke" Chulk gives the ball to the kerosene man!

Well, KLigt didn't waste much time allowing that inherited runner to score. Ugh, 1B, 2B, 3B, 2B to start this 8th for the BoSox.

Well I have to hand it to Gibbons. He's got guts. The day after a huge disaster by Chulk he goes to him again in a one run game. Unfortunately I could have told him that it's a bad bad idea because Chulk's bad outing yesterday wasn't a fluke.

Keith, I hope you're kidding.

He traded a guy who was unhappy, figured to miss time, and was very very unlikely to re-sign. He tried to trade another guy who is unlikely to re-sign (because his agent is asking for 9 million a year and that demand was ridiculous even before his terrible year) and a wildly overpaid guy for another wildly overpaid guy who happened to be the best player at a premium position. I hardly call that ego. I call that doing what many teams do (trading guys you're going to lose at the end of the year) and trying to do something innovative (essentially trading to positional value.)

Also he signed Ortiz and Mueller off the scrap heap for peanuts and got a deal done for Schilling while not giving up much, signing him to reasonable extension, and selling him on the team and the city when he initially was hesitant.

It also just occured to me that I only get really obvious sarcasm.

Since the all-star break Chulk's appeared in 16 games pitched 13 innings and given up 13 ER's for a ERA of 9.00
Also 9 K's to 8 BB's.

Since the all-star break Frasor's appeared in 13 games pitched 14 innings and given up 5 ER's for an ERA of 3.21
Also 12 K's to 11 BB's.

As for Lightenberg since the all-star break in 15 innings he's given up 11 ER's for an ERA of 6.60

Since the all-star break the Jays have scored 105 runs in 31 games for an average of 3.39 runs a game. In that same time span they've given up 164 runs for an average of 5.29 runs a game.

They overall record is 10-21 since the all-star break and in the 13 games the Jays are 2-11.

Sorry Lucas. As for your demand there shall be no sweep. ;)You guys are on your own.

Lordy. Missed the 8th and 9th but it looks like Chulk has hit the ground hard. ERA now 4.50 for the Vincredible one.

Theo *had* to trade Nomar. Nomar was complaining about his achilles, said he'd have to go on the DL before the playoffs. Theo made the trade to the Cubs, ran it by Nomar, Nomar said "okay, I feel fine then". What could any GM do in that case? You never get good value for a player who wants out. In my mind, the defense argument was a smokescreen so that Epstein didn't have to say "Nomar was a whining malcontent"

On the other hand, Theo (and Boston's ownership) created the Nomar situation by going after A-Rod in the off-season.

Since the all-star break Chulk's appeared in 16 games pitched 13 innings and given up 13 ER's for a ERA of 9.00
Also 9 K's to 8 BB's.

Since the all-star break Frasor's appeared in 13 games pitched 14 innings and given up 5 ER's for an ERA of 3.21
Also 12 K's to 11 BB's.

Theres a thumbnail sketch. Thanks Ron.

Even though Frasor's ERA is much better than Chulk's I would have to think that Frasor's ineffectiveness has contributed greatly to Chulk's ERA. The 11 walks really jumps off the page.

The schedule makers decided to inflict more pain on the Jays and their fans by giving a really tough schedule to close out the season:

Red Sox: 5 games
Yanks: 10 games
O's: 10 games
A's: 3 games
Angels: 3 games
Rangers: 3 games

(also play M's and Rays)

There's an excellent chance the Jays will lose 100+ games this season.

I must admit, I'm starting to waiver a bit in my steadfast belief that the Jays will still finish in third in the AL East.

Managing isn't just about getting the right people, it's about getting the most out of those people.

Something must have made Nomar felt Boston was intolerable. It would be Theo's job not to make him feel that way, to get the most out of him. Instead Theo just got stoney and prickled that Nomar wasn't their kind of player anyway, and they needed more "defense". In a year when you're gunning for the World Series, if you're the GM, you swallow your pride and say or do whatever you have to to make those key, key players feel like performing.

Theo's lucky Manny didn't carry around a monster grudge and is instead having a monster year.

I think Theo underestimated what Grady Little did for the Red Sox last year. They won 96 games, made an incredible comeback against the A's (Ok: The A's threw that series away) and were one out away from the World Series. They won't get that close this year.

I realize the very public courtship of A-Rod was more Luccino's doing. But Theo was very present in all those press conferences.

JP tempers his baseball smarts with a little more wisdom than
Theo. Theo reminds me of a teenager running his fantasy team. He did come up roses with Ortiz though.

With all the problems of the Red Sox, it's truly embarassing they beat us so easily.

I somewhat doubt that the Jays will lose 100. They'd need to go 11-30 (.366) to finish up thes season. They'll get thrown around a lot, but I'm sure they can beat up on the M's, take a few from the Rays and O's, and steal a game here and there from the Red Sox, Yankees, A's, and Angels. To be realistic, 90 wins isn't a lot worse than 100, really.

At least Chulk and Frasor are getting their struggles out of the way before the season ends so some of the freed up cash goes to a closer. I like Frasor and Chulk, but they're not 2.00 ERA guys. The 4.50 that Chulk is sporting is more like it, IMHO.

Absolutely Scott. The Jays need an anchor for the pen. Its been two years of bullpen nonsense. Still though the trade the teams last closer Koch was still the right move. But since then its been a nightmare.

The team should insert Speiers as closer right now if they are keen to have him back as JP said tonite. He's been no hell most of the season but over the past three weeks he has been showing why the team was excited to sign him.

Hats off to Frasor stepping up when the team had absolutely no confidence in anyone down in the pen. I think he could be an integral part in a decent pen next season.

IMHO if Speiers can't do the job for the remainder if the season then JP has to go out and drop 3 million from next yrs. budget. Otherwise they are playing reliever roullette again. And that ain't goin to fly.

Problem is, apart from Gagne, Rivera and Foulke, there really isn't a guy out there you would want to blow the budget on. JP needs to figure out who next year's Joe Nathan is gonna be, not an easy task. I wonder what it would take to get Luis Ayala out of Montreal...

If your not going top dollar then how about looking around at baseballs top set-up men. I don't think you'll pry BJ Ryan but thats basically what the Twins did with Nathan.

I remember reading an article on ESPN around May, when the Bosox were still going well... the gist of it was that the acquisition of ProvenCloser Keith Foulke had completely turned around the team, showing the folly of 2003's "bullpen-by-committee". Apparently, the Sox were showing that the presence a go-to closer makes the rest of the bullpen pitch well.

Foulke had a mini dry-spell, but has generally been fabulous. The Sox have been... less than fabulous... in one-run games, and the rest of the bullpen has been pretty lousy. The 2003 Boston bullpen, even without Foulke, performed much better, on the whole.

Somehow, I don't expect to read a follow-up to said article anytime soon.

Early in the season, (End of April) I traded Foulke away to get Tejada, and someone protested it.

Foulke has 19 Saves, 50 K's and 1.8 over 60 innings.
Tejada has 23 HR's, 107 RBI and 3.17 over 467 AB's

TO THIS DAY, I don't know if the protest was that I got too much, or paid too much... not to mention I had excess closers and needed a bat at SS...

I think the next Joe Nathan could be Gil Meche. He (Meche) has a good mid-90's fastball and a "nasty" curve. It looks like he may not be consistent enough to be a starter. His solid ERA last year was greatly influenced by Safeco. Put him in a one inning closer role and I think he'll be very effective (his K/9 is over 8.00 as a starter this year).

Seattle was rumored to trade him earlier in the year, and he hasn't done much to change their opinion (5.63 ERA). I don't know what we could offer, but I think it would be a worthwhile gamble.

I realize this is easier said than done, but IMO what you need in a closer, is a guy with a mid 90's fastball and one other pitch that has the same arm action but breaks hard or is off speed by at least (10 mph from the fastball). Find a starter with those qualifications and move him into the bullpen. Basically, a 2 pitch pitcher. Guess everyone is looking for one of those guys.

Over simplification? Obviously.

But none of our current crop of pitchers has that second pitch. You know the kinda pitch that makes a batter's knees buckle. Frasor had it earlier in the year, with his slider (at least I think it was a slider), but recently it has gone MIA.

Best example of a seconf pitch, I can think of is Kelvim Escobar's slider. When it was on, it usually bounced in front of home plate. Foulke's off speed also tends to make batter's look silly.