Call it the race for the first overall pick. Sounds better. ;)

Also, as bad as this season has been, it's only going to take about 5 days of off-season before I miss it. Especially with hockey gone until God knows when.

Let's go Royals, Mariners, Expos, and Rockies!!!

Hey, if we're going to be bad, let's try and be the worst. At least we can say we were first in losses (or second, since Arizona is most likely going to hold the worst record category).

Is there any team more screwed for the forseeable than Arizona?

I think it will come down to Montreal - Toronto for 4th. As I set out in the other thread, Toronto's schedule is:

Bal 10
Yankers 10
Blowsox 3
Seattle 3
Oakland 3
Anahiem 3
Tex 3
TB 6

Does not look good. Unless the Yankees start sitting guys to rest them, the only "weak" teams are Seattle and maybe TB. If you give them 2/3 vs Seattle (all three will be 1-0 games) 3/6 from TB and 4/10 vs Baltimore, and maybe 3 more wins elsewhere, they will finish with 12 more wins for a total of 61 - 101.

Montreal plays:

Col 3
LA 4
SD 3
Cubs 6
Atlanta 6
Florida 8
Phillies 6
Mets 6

On the face of it Montreal's schedule is a little easier. I predict the Expos will win 2/3 with Colorado, 3/6 with the swooning Mets. Soon Florida and the Phillies will figure out they are done, so maybe the Expos will win 6/14 with them. This means they only have to win one more to best the Jays for 5th last overall.

Lineups:

Rios rf
Hudson 2b
Wells cf
Delgado 1b
Catalanotto dh
Hinske 3b
Zaun c
Gross lf
Woodward ss

Roberts 2b
Newhan dh
Mora 3b
Tejada ss
Palmeiro 1b
Lopez c
Surhoff lf
Gibbons rf
Garcia cf

Three outfielders at the bottom of their order!

Given our team, I like our lineup, although it would be nice to get team RCAA leader Menechino in there somewhere.

Given that the offence is what it is this season, I think where the Jays finish will be decided by the pitching. On that front, Batista really doesn't look right to me (whether its mechanical, tired arm or he's hurt I don't know) but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him shut down at some point. I also think that they will be conservative with Bush's workload down the stretch. I'm not optimistic about the number of wins they will garner down the stretch but I think that Gibbons/JP will be able to influence that to some extent by how hard they ride the starters. Its a tough choice, the terrible PR of 100 losses versus better draft pick and more conservative approach with starters. In a normal market where you weren't worried about support falling off the map and contraction I would vote for "going easy" the rest of the way every time, but something in me says that losing 100 games might be more than this fan base can stand. I hope that's wrong.

if we finished last in the american league wouldn't we get the number 1 pick beacuse it rotates leagues each year?

No, they killed the rotating league concept.

thanks

If the Jays do get a shot at a blue-chip prospect, is there a chance that they'll pass anyway due to budget restrictions? Could we see them pick, say, 3rd and end up taking the same guy that they would have had they been drafting 8th? Because that would...um...be no fun.

If the Jays do get a shot at a blue-chip prospect, is there a chance that they'll pass anyway due to budget restrictions?

I don't think so, unless the demands of a particular player far exceed his worth. In which case, the Jays will take another very very good player who's looking for a bit less. I wouldn't be surprised to see them spend 3.5 to 4 million on their first rounder if necessary.

I think they'll look for a huge college bat that won't need much seasoning, or if there isn't one, the best college pitching prospect available.

Positive note for the night - John Gibbons is undefeated as interim manager when Josh Towers starts.

As for drafting players due to price considerations rather than talent, the Astros did just that when they picked Phil nevin 1st overall, as did the Twins when the went with Joe Mauer. I can't remember who the 'Stros passed on, the Twins did avoid taking Prior and Teixeira

Nice start to the game, let's keep it up.

Thanks for the reply, Robert. Hope you're right.

I can see Carlos being a good fit on the O's next year for some reason.

The Orioles broadcast has the camera angle from the right of dead center field. It's an odd perspective since most are from left of center. Nice first inning.

That was one heckuva catch by Vernon Wells.

fine catch, indeed.

afterthought strikeout, with a phantom tag to go.

Im not sure that was a strikeout or a tagout, let along both.

As somebody mentioned earlier the other night, how can somebody in his prime lose 20 pds in the off-season and badly regress in stealing bases?

along = alone

As somebody mentioned earlier the other night, how can somebody in his prime lose 20 pds in the off-season and badly regress in stealing bases?

It doesn't help when umpires make bad calls.

As somebody mentioned earlier the other night, how can somebody in his prime lose 20 pds in the off-season and badly regress in stealing bases?

My guess would be not being able to get on base very much might not be very conducive to getting a 'feel' or in a rhythm for stealing bases.. that or the weight loss has resulted in a loss of explosion in terms of speed, and maybe that explains the power shortage as well (try not to jump to conclusions).

For those in the Toronto area, the Skychiefs game is on Rogers cable 10. Syracuse is beating Ottawa 5 - 1 in the 5th inning.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
A rally starts with the #8 hitter... something we haven't seen a lot of this year. But no lead is safe...

It's now 8 - 2 for Syracuse. Eric Crozier is 4 for 5 with 2 RBI.

Tenobia - does Crozier remind you of young McGriff (I think that was something Ricciardi said)

Physically, he does look like a young McGriff.

I haven't seen him hit or make any plays at first because I've been flipping back and forth with the Jays game.

A Lopez is pitching for Syracuse in the 8th, still 8 - 2.

As we speak, however, Crozier and Lopez get their signals crossed and miss making an out at first.

Well, no harm no foul in Syracuse. Lopez gets Mottola, who homered earlier in the game, to fly out.

Just for fun, here are the #4 overall draft selections going back to 1994:

2004: Jeff Nieman, RHP, Tampa Bay
2003: Tim Stauffer, RHP, San Diego
2002: Adam Loewen, LHP, Baltimore
2001: Gavin Floyd, RHP, Philadelphia
2000: Mike Stodolka, RHP, Kansas City
1999: Corey Myers, IF, Arizona
1998: Jeff Austin, RHP, Kansas City
1997: Jason Grilli, RHP, San Francisco (#5 was Vernon Wells)
1996: Billy Koch, RHP, Toronto
1995: Kerry Wood, RHP, Chicago Cubs
1994: Antone Williamson, 3B, Milwaukee

Try not to get too excited by a high draft pick; there is exactly one All-Star player in there, and a whole lot of wasted potential.

How'd you like to be the Royals? In '98, they took Austin #4; JD Drew, Austin Kearns and Sean Burroughs went in the next five picks. In '00, they took Stodolka; Rocco Baldelli went two picks later.

LOL @ Faulds

"What kind of drugs you on?"

The Ottawa pitcher, Craig House, has one of the strangest deliveries I've ever seen. He does a quick double pump with his leg as he steps towards home and it looks like he's going to fall off the mound.

one of the strangest deliveries I've ever seen

Yeah, I saw that. Almost a little hop in the middle of his delivery.

Meanwhile, its 92 degrees, its humid, and Josh Towers is running out of gas.

this pitching change doesn't make any sense

And Gibbons comes and gets him! I'm impressed.

It's not just pitch counts, folks. Its the weather, its the actual length of time the game's been going (we're over two hours, the Jays 6th inning took a long time.)

I watched a little of that Skychiefs-Lynx game too (I suppose I should be out supporting the local nine in person, but they'll have to settle for my Nielsen ratings). John Maine started for Ottawa and he has good stuff, but he couldn't get his breaking pitches over for strikes. Also, he was getting nickeled-and-dimed to death in the early going and got flustered. Considering he was in the Sally last year and is just 23, it's understandable. He could be a good one.

The Skychiefs, after being terrible all year, could win their 8th game in 12 starts tonight. Crozier looks good, with a lot of patience and a quick bat, but I don't know if he's going to be able to generate enough power to play 1B in the bigs. Anton French can fly.

Pretty cool that Syracuse is at Ottawa the same night Toronto is at Baltimore.

Meanwhile, it's over in Ottawa. Syracuse wins 8 - 2, with 16 hits in the game.

If the Jays can hold this lead (HAHAHA...sorry), than Towers is 17-5 as a member of the Blue Jays. Pretty good.

Nice piece of work by Frederick. Pitches around the guy that's been hammering the ball, and gets a couple of good LH hitters out.

He's sweating like Duane Ward tonight, but that's just Baltimore in August. Like pitching in the rain forest...

What happened to the scoreboard at milb.com?

I didn't like the pitching change because:

- Towers velocity wasn't going dowm
- had a low pitch count
- was still pounding the strike zone
- he was pitching an excellent ball game
- the bullpen is terrible and I would rather stick with the hot hand

I didn't like the pitching change

I liked it because:

- it's 92 degrees and humid
- Towers isn't a guy who can throw a lot of pitches; he's not a horse. And he's coming off his season high in pitches.
- four of the last five guys in this game had rapped out base hits

But the most important to me was the weather.

There's some insurance runs for ya!!

Way to go Eric

Way to go Eric!!!!

Whoa. 420 feet to the opposite field?

Clearly Hinske is still strong enough to be hitting for power. Must be something else...

the bullpen is terrible and I would rather stick with the hot hand

But Amen to that brother. Last time I saw these guys was on Sunday at the Dome. I remember it well, David Bush and his 7-1 lead....

Deja vu?

If we blow this, we truly deserve last place.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Vinnie these days. Since the 8th of July, he has pitched in 18 games.

IPT----H-----R-----ER-----HR----K----W-----ERA
16-----23---17-----16------4----19---15----9.00

My bad, messed up Vinnie's K/BB numbers. It should be 13 K and 9 BB in 16 IPT

I'm crossing my fingers right now!

Those numbers more closely resemble what Chulk was doing at Syracuse before he got called up. The roof was going to fall in sooner or later, and I'm glad the Jays are finding out this season whether Vinny can re-adjust to major-league hitters. Right now, it's not looking promising at all.

Today is the 20 August (my late grandmother's birthday.)

The last time a Blue Jays pitcher NOT named Josh Towers won a game... that would be 3 August, boys and girls. Trailing 5-3 in the 8th, Delgado hit a 2 run HR to tie, Menechino drew a bases loaded walk. Justin Speier wins in relief of Batista.

Something encouraging about tonight's game (besides the 10 hits and the 13 runs) is how the Jays have played an alert and intelligent ball game tonight.

--I'm thinking of Delgado cutting the throw and getting the runner at 3rd to end the inning and save a run

--Rios hustling to back up Wells, holding Mora to a single

--Hudson reading the throwing mistake by Gibbons to score an extra run

When you're 49-72, these things don't always get done

To me, Crozier doesn't look as big as McGriff. I'd say his build is "half way" between McGriff and Willie Upshaw.

Three walks for Gabe Gross. I like that a great deal.

Woody, Woody, Woody!!!!!

Woody!

Woody!

About time, I must say.

Way to go Woody.

First HR of the year, First career Grand Slam.

I'd say his build is "half way" between McGriff and Willie Upshaw

That's an excellent comp, Stephen. Crozier's a little leaner and more whiplike than Willie, but he's not in McGriff's size or weight class. I suspect his upside will be more Upshawlike.

The last time a Blue Jays pitcher NOT named Josh Towers won a game... that would be 3 August

Come on, September.

What DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT???

First career Grand Slam by Woody!!!

Finally the bats have exploded.

Crozier's a little leaner and more whiplike than Willie, but he's not in McGriff's size or weight class.

He's a a whole lot bigger than Upshaw, who was just 6-0 185. Crozier is 6-4, 200. (McGriff these days is listed at 6-3 225, but I think he was about 210 in his Blue Jay days)

I'm sorry but if Chris Woodward is the starting shortstop in 2005 I will flip. Despite that meaningless grand slam, Woodward has done nothing himself to me.

Josh Towers now has the Blue Jays last three wins (and he's now 6-0 in starts after a Jays loss.)

Will everybody who, back on the 15th of May let us say, thought that Josh Towers would take over the staff lead in wins by the end of August ...please tell me what lottery numbers I should buy.

Damm Nick Johnson took a ball right in the face. Clayton hit a grounder that took a bad hop and smoked Johnson. Johnson's been on the ground for 10 mins now.

Heres hoping Baltimore in awe of Woodwards grandslamming prowess, will aquire him as a platoon with Miggy for a John Maine, or heck Markakis :)

Woodward should just hold a press conference to announce he's actually a woman, or a hemaphrodite, or whatever he is, and just get it over with.

I agree with Mike Frobes. If Woodward is the starter in '05, I GUARANTEE I don't shoe up at a single game in person (this coming from someone who attends 20-30 games on average per year).

Boy, you guys are being awfully harsh on a guy who just had a pretty good game.

I mean come on, would you dump your girlfriend on Valentine's day?

I know i'm being harsh.. I try my best to root for every Jay no matter their skill level but i'm just sick of Chris Woodward starting at shortstop. When will it become obvious that he is only Triple A good?

Could Crozier be a Lyle Overbay clone?

I dunno if everyone has seen this, but I did manage to find a guy on google who linked to another guy at William & Mary who did a comprehensive list of the 2005 FA market. COMN

http://kmbumb.people.wm.edu/05agency.html
no, that was wrong... NOW COMN

Re: Chris Woodward - I was watching the Braves again tonight, and again I conclude Raphael Furcal is everything you want in a SS. I didn't realize he's an above average hitter to boot. He turned a DP off a Steve Finely grounder that had no business being turned - he cheated just enough off second and fired a throw to first that actually tied Finely. Technically, he go nobody outs, but the quick intensity of his fielding fooled the umpires and the Braves got two where Woodward probably would have had 0.

Fielding % doesn't even apply to Woodward, there are ground balls a guy like Furcal sucks up that Woodward doesn't even get near. Our gaping hole at short only comes into focus when you see what a real Major League SS can do. SS is one position where hitting really is secondary. If Woodward hits .300 and we're not getting those miracle outs or those double plays, I think he's a negative.

By the way, the Dodgers won tonight but Gagne was touched for the third straight night. It seems the Dodgers always play these one-run affairs and I think dealing Mota will sting them, if not in the regular season then definately in the playoffs. It looks like SF can catch them in the division. As well, the Dodgers are suffering at teh catching position. Ross, the guy catching now, is a Kevin Cash without the glove: ouch.

Hey Matt, that free agent list shows Dave Berg (think he'll see big league action after this year?) as a SS - shudder.

Woodward should just hold a press conference to announce he's actually a woman, or a hemaphrodite, or whatever he is, and just get it over with.

This tune is getting old and I know I teed off on Ron earlier for an obscene comment like this but it just has to be said: get it through your head that it simply is NOT okay to use gender or sex as an insult. Would anyone here use skin colour to demean a player's ability on the field? Didn't think so. So why his gender or sex?

There are a rediculous number of ways to communicate Woodward's ineffectiveness that could make anyone laugh but that expression just alienated roughly 3 billion people.

It's late now, but GFR's comment about Woodward is way beyond the bounds of acceptability. If you've got something to say about his bat or his glove, say it.

Grand Funk Railroad,

Please refrain from that kind of commentary in future, or the Cabal (there is no Cabal) will have to take action.