Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
Somehow I got stuck
Between the rock and the hard place
And I'm down on my luck
Now I'm hiding in Honduras
I'm a desperate man


The Blue Jays were already safely in Baltimore when Hurricane Jeanne struck Tampa, so both the Jays and Rays will finish 2004 one game short of the regular 162. In Toronto's case, that's good news and bad news. On the plus side, it's one less potential loss in this brutal campaign; on the other, it means there are no more head-to-head games with Tampa Bay, hamstringing the team's effort to escape 5th and last place in the American League East. Wow, that's a depressing thing to write.

Not much to report on the wire this morning:

--> Gagliano Notes on the hurricane cancellation of Sunday's game:

According to research by the Tampa Bay public relations staff, only two other games in domed stadiums have been canceled by weather. Ten inches of rain postponed a June 15, 1976 game between Houston and Pittsburgh at the Astrodome, while snow collapsed the roof of the Metrodome in 1983, forcing a postponement of the April 14th game against the Angels.

--> Gagliano further discusses tonight's critical second start for Roy Halladay, and how the Orioles have officially ousted the Blue Jays from third place as Halladay heads to the hill:

The Jays don't have a chance to catch up to the Orioles and finish third for the seventh straight season, but there's still a chance they can avoid landing in the American League East basement for the first time since 1997. Toronto and Tampa Bay split their season series at nine games apiece, but the Jays have a chance to take the season series from the Orioles by taking three of four games at Camden Yards.

--> The Globe and Mail continues its season-ending look at the Blue Jays organization in Jeff Blair's feature on Skydome. The Globe has recently gone to an Insider subscription for most of its columnists, so unless you're a member, you'll have to content yourself with the teaser:

So how did the Toronto Blue Jays' lease with the SkyDome become balkanized to the point where even the use of the JumboTron scoreboard during games is regulated, with the Blue Jays controlling 30 seconds every half-inning? "My guess is that when all these things started being discussed, there was just so much money flying around that these issues never needed to be clear," said Silvio D'Addario, the SkyDome's chief operating officer.

Money never stops talking, however, and a deal makes too much sense for both sides. At some point, once each party's demands are measured in the harsh light of market reality, someone will blink and the Dome will change hands. I look forward to the day.

--> Richard Griffin delivers a last hurrah for the Expos, as it seems to be all over in Montreal but the shouting:

And so it ends. The 36-year old Expos franchise will play a final home series at Olympic Stadium against the Florida Marlins starting today. Then it will be "turn out the lights, the party's over." You may think you have heard this song before, but this time, Major League Baseball insists there's no turning back.

I can usually find at least one thing to disagree with in each Griffin column, and here, it's his closing observation that "there will be no expansion franchise promises or major league baseball in Montreal ever again." Never is a long time, and baseball inevitably will look to expand sometime again down the road, because the owners love those expansion fees too much. When the time is right and a deep-pocketed local owner is found -- a new Bronfman -- then there will be baseball in Montreal again. But no, not anytime soon.

--> Elsewhere around the majors, the Angels run out of patience with petulant Jose Guillen and suspend him for the rest of the season and playoffs; Guillen's ex-teammates showed how much they miss him by beating the A's last night to move within one game of Oakland; the Yankees and Red Sox continued their overhyped relationship with another hissy spat at Fenway; Ichiro is now only 6 hits away from George Sisler, thanks to a 1-for-4 performance in a 9-0 win at Texas; and Shawn Green and Jayson Werth helped the Dodgers defeat San Francisco 7-4 and take a 2 1/2 game lead in the NL West.

--> Tonight's 7:05 PM start in Baltimore sees RHP Roy Halladay battle Sidney Ponson in a matchup of two pitchers not at all happy with how 2004 has gone. Cross your fingers that Doc can produce a solid effort and buoy the organization's spirits for 2005.
Jays Roundup: I'm The Innocent Bystander | 138 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_6-4-3 - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:57 AM EDT (#30782) #
There's probably an interesting tale of lawyers, guns, and money behind Jose Guillen's suspension, maybe Warren Sawkiw will tells us about it.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#30783) #
it seems to be all over in Montreal but the shouting

I have no idea where this idea has suddenly come from. Having gone over the historical record in preparation for a long piece on the demise of the Expos, I have now figured that Friday's statement that the move is to be finalized this week is the 17th time that a "final" date has been set for the Expos to be moved. And that only counts MLB's own deadlines. Once MLB gets sorted out, every other party in the mess, including the plaintiffs and judge in the Florida RICO lawsuit, have to step on board. While those are the most important parties, there's also the MLBPA, Jeffrey Loria who may or may not still be owed money by MLB on the sale (and in any case is a named co-conspirator in the racketeering case), Angelos, D.C. council (and by extension, Congress), the competing bidders who will not be happy to lose out, the new ownership group, the other ownerships groups who wind up competing for the team once the identity of the new city is known, whoever in heck owns the crumbling wreck of RFK Stadium, whichever poor schmuck gets hired to resculpt RFK into a rough facsimile of a ballpark (in case no one's ever noticed, D.C. is not a town famous for getting big construction projects done on time), and so on and so forth.

This is not over yet, by a long shot. I'm betting there will be at least one 2005 Expos "home" game not in whatever "new" location MLB announces for the Expos, and at least a 30% chance that the Expos play more than half their 2005 home games in Montreal.

In any such situation, getting the vendor to get themselves straightened out is usually the least of all worries. Expect the final confirmation on the Expos' move to occur no earlier than pitchers and catchers reporting date.
_Jordan - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 08:55 AM EDT (#30784) #
One hundred million points to 6-4-3, who correctly identified Lawyers, Guns and Money by the late and lamented Warren Zevon:



And here are some lawyers. Money and guns are optional:

Mike Green - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#30785) #
Once MLB gets sorted out

That, in itself, could take years.

lawyers, guns, and money behind Jose Guillen's suspension

I'm quite sure that Jordan was referring to the Expos' move. Werewolves of the Biodome just doesn't work.
Coach - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#30786) #
every other party in the mess, including the plaintiffs and judge in the Florida RICO lawsuit

If anyone is interested, here (thanks to FindLaw.com) is the complaint against "the perpetrators of a fraudulent conspiracy and the members of a racketeering enterprise with the object of eliminating major league baseball in Montreal" -- there are some heavy hitters among the plaintiffs, who still own about 6% of the Marlins.

While MLB may be able to postpone dealing with this, and claim that the Expos are "temporarily" in Washington pending its resolution, I agree with Craig that the whole sordid affair is far from over.
Pistol - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 09:42 AM EDT (#30787) #
Ok, you have to choose one of the 7 lawyers pictured to defend you. Who would you choose and why?

I would take the guy in the back left. He looks a little like Matthew McConaughey and his character did a nice job in 'A Time to Kill'.
_Dan H - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 09:47 AM EDT (#30788) #
Ok, you have to choose one of the 7 lawyers pictured to defend you. Who would you choose and why?

Guy sitting on the right with the red tie. He's just got that kind of quiet, smug look that tells you he'd rip you apart in court. It's the quiet ones you've gotta look out for.
_Loveshack - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#30790) #
Ok, you have to choose one of the 7 lawyers pictured to defend you. Who would you choose and why?

Guy in the backrow with the glasses. He looks a little like that kid from Rushmore. Great movie and that kid was both charismatic and a genius.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#30791) #
I've been troubled of late as to why it is taking so long to put in field turf

I'm not sure why you'd be troubled by this. The Jays have stated many times why they haven't.

Would you put in new carpeting in an apartment you were renting?

Hopefully the Jays and the Dome can come to some kind of agreement. I don't see the turf being much of an issue, but it is looking worn so it would be nice to see some new stuff come in.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#30792) #
JORDAN:

Please please please please PLEASE quit freaking me out. That's my old friend Hoi Kong on the left of the first row. I just saw that picture on Friday, as I was trying to figure out where he'd gone after clerking at the Supreme Court.

He's actually not a lawyer right now; he's gone to the U.S. for graduate studies instead. :)
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#30793) #
And yes, as one of the three most brilliant people I have ever known in my life, I would pick him hands down to do anything for me. That's front row, left.

The three most brilliant people I've ever known in my life? Jeff Egger, Hoi Kong, Andrew Sacamano. Geniuses of the first order, each of them. I am not worthy to wipe dogshit off their intellectual shoes.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#30794) #
Andrew Sacamano? Wasn't he in Seinfeld? ;)
Named For Hank - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#30795) #
Provided they're used sparingly, those ribbon scoreboards can be great. However, everywhere I've seen them they don't run scores, they run changing advertisements. Still, they're a lot of fun when they run a sweeping graphic all the way around a stadium. But I have a nightmarish vision of the Staples Business Depot Delivery Truck Race running around the whole 'Dome. Gah.

Imagine them used as an out-of-town scoreboard that runs around the 'Dome -- following the Yankees game? It's in front of section 224.

And hey, covering up the concrete with paint and tiles? Didn't I suggest that if people disliked the minimal amount of visible concrete that it would be easy to change that with a coat of paint? ;)
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#30796) #
Geniuses of the first order, each of them. I am not worthy to wipe dogshit off their intellectual shoes.

If they're so smart, how come they have dog shit on their shoes?
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#30797) #
Three comments:

NFH: You're scaring me man. Oh how I loathe the business truck race.

Moffatt: You're good....

Anyone in the Battersbox survival pool: So we can only pick each team once?
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#30799) #
Anyone in the Battersbox survival pool: So we can only pick each team once?

Yup.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#30800) #
Moffatt: You're good....

Nah, I was just ripping off Happy Gilmore:

Shooter : I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.
Happy Gilmore : You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
_Prisoner of Ham - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#30801) #
I did a story on the Argos in a magazine you'll see soon, and I was told the field-turf-like surface the owners installed cost only $300,000. One suited to baseball would be more expensive, no doubt, but not prohibitive.

The benefits to the fans would be enormous. Ever notice how often our outfielders, so dive-averse at the 'Dome, are willing to go spread-eagled when they know they're going to land on grass?
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#30803) #
Any interest on behalf of Hamilton/Burlington area Bauxites to have a Beer Club meeting somewhere west of Toronto for one of the upcoming playoff games? Torontonians travelling west would be welcome but remember that we generally don't like outsiders here in the backwoods.

This could be an outing to a local licenced establishment (but one which will admit those under 19 as well) or even a get-together at Casa del Burley if there's an afternoon game on a weekend when I'm not painting or travelling.

Drop me a line at craig@battersbox.ca or post your potential interest, so we can see if it's worthwhile.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#30804) #
If you do have a meeting, I'll see if I can round up Brent Smith and meet you guys. Unless I kick him off my team for playing first base while sporting excessive sideburns. :)
Pistol - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#30806) #
Would you put in new carpeting in an apartment you were renting?

I sure would if I was charging people money to visit, and the carpeting was as important to their visit as the surface is to a ballgame, and especially where the cost was entirely reasonable.


Aesthetics is the last reason I would replace the turf. I don't think I've ever not gone to a game because it's being played on turf instead of grass. Said another way, does watching a game in Montreal, Minnesota, or Tampa make you want to attend a game there more than you did before they switched?

Here's why I would change it:

1. The surface is more conducive to the long term health of the players.

2. For a team that (I assume) wants as many ground balls as possible you don't want those ground balls going for hits because the turf isn't slowing the ball down like grass or artificial grass does.

I suspect that someone could do a study that showed that the team is losing more money by not changing the turf to fake grass.
_BCMike - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#30807) #
And those awful blue seats? Gone, replaced with green ones.

Can someone explain to me why blue is so awful and why green would be so much better?
_StephenT - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#30808) #
As long as it is dark green.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#30809) #
I dont get it.... this team migration towards everything Devil Ray is starting to freak me out. BLUE Jays, BLUE seats... whats the problem?
_Prisoner of Ham - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#30810) #
To my taste, blue is winter. Green is summer. Green is also a more traditional baseball colour -- It ain't the Blue Monster in Fenway.

Anyone who's been to Cooperstown in July or August will, like me, have an image in their mind of the old-style field where they play the Hall of Fame games. Greener grass and redder clay you never saw.

Imagine a SkyDome with green seats and railings, and all the cement painted brick red. With the roof open, and near-grass on the field... That's a place to spend a summer afternoon.
Mike Green - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#30811) #
Green, Res ipsa loquitur. There, we've got our mandatory Latin phrase for lawyer day at the roundup.

Stat of the day. Trailers in Win Shares Above Average: Hinske -8, Spiezio -7, Blum -7, Bret Boone -7.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#30812) #
green seats and railings, and all the cement painted brick red

You can't force the Skydome into something it's not, in this case an old timey baseball stadium. Picturing the concrete monster painted like that makes me think of some kind of twisted christmas nightmare.
_Braby - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#30813) #
For sure. Going to games is fun, but its doesn't have that baseball field. Haven't the field turf and the green seats would make the experience feel a lot more like Baseball, not a rock concert or something. I'm going to two of the three games this weekend, and I've been to a bunch already this year. If they made the appropriate changes to the Dome for next year I'd be there twice as much.
_Braby - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#30814) #
one more thing...anyone else wish that they trimmed the outfield fence off a foot or so. I wouldn't mind seeing Vern go back and get a couple at home, instead of having to watch his rediculous catches on tv.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#30815) #
Not that I'm doubting you Braby, but are you really saying the team is a side issue and the colour of the seats would double your attendence?
_Prisoner of Ham - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#30816) #
Jobu, you've obviously never been forced by your wife to watch those decorating shows on HG channel. A coat of paint can work wonders.
_6-4-3 - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#30817) #
I'm quite sure that Jordan was referring to the Expos' move. Werewolves of the Biodome just doesn't work.

I've learned in the past that if you try to be too clever, you wind up losing your cuttlefish (or, in this case, team of lawyers) to someone else. Guillen was on my mind, but you're right something Expo-related would've been better.

Ok, you have to choose one of the 7 lawyers pictured to defend you. Who would you choose and why?

Hey hey, they're my lawyers, they'll be defending no-one else but me (and that'll keep them plenty busy). That being said, I assumed that they weren't defense attourneys. I have the whole team, but if I had to choose one, I'd probably take the guy in the bottom right.

As for the turf, if putting in new turf reduces the risk of an injury to Orlando Hudson, or Rios, or anyone else, it's worth the money, IMO. It might also be worth it as a message of "we're trying to make things better", although it wouldn't necessarily add more tickets, and it'd be more dramatic if the Jays somehow bought the Dome, worked on it in the off-season, and presented a new-and-improved Skydome for the next season.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#30818) #
I'm not doubting the wonders of paint, it is a fine substance. Nor am I doubting that the Skydome could use many a freshen up. I'm just concered of the thought of forcing the Skydome into something it's not, a true old timey ballpark.

Ever see a crappy old civic or sunfire driving down the road with a rediculous spoiler, primer still on the side, lowered to the point of being forced to go sideways over speedbumps with a Ferrari sticker on the back and you look and laugh and say "Who are you trying to fool buddy?". That is what I see (and probably vistors from cities with real ballparks)when I picture the concrete monster being forced into "old timey mode" with some very superficial fasacde changes. Like the engine of the car, its the heart of the place that counts, and the Skydome just ain't old timey baseball.
_Braby - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#30819) #
I'm saying it would double MY attendence yes, not saying the Jays attendence obviously. I definately don't think it could hurt tho, baseball is about going to the game with your pops, or your son. The baseball "feel" would help that, maybe not a big thing in the GTA tho.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#30820) #
I respect your opinion braby, but I must say I don't fully understand. So on any given day next year, if the Jays are playing the Sox and the seats are blue you won't feel like going, but if they are green you'd get up and go to the ballpark? I hear what you're saying about the baseball "feel" bringing you out, but on the surfacec it sounds like seat colour and "feel" are more important than the team itself. They could play in the Ex with polka dot seats for all I care but I'd still want to go see the Jays.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#30821) #
Jobu, the aesthetic appeal of a ballpark doesn't make its appeal at a conscious level (at least mostly not), it makes it at the unconscious level. Green seats, better turf, an open roof for a nice day game in May, or what have you, won't necessarily be the thing that drags a person in (though I always feel more pull when the roof is open, for example). But if they result in a slightly more pleasurable experience, more people will come back more often.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#30822) #
Imagine a SkyDome with green seats and railings, and all the cement painted brick red. With the roof open, and near-grass on the field...

With the roof open, this screams summer colours. With the roof closed, this screams "I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING!!"

It's possible to make an indoor park look too dark (like Olympic Stadium, which has yellow seats but is caked in 30 years of dirt). I still think this should be done, definitely, but it's not without some drawbacks.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#30823) #
I hear what you're saying, but I think a good team is what brings people back to the ballpark ultimately. Pittsburg, Chicago and Cleveland aren't raking them in with their shiny new ballparks, imagine the multi-purpose concrete monster being forced into old timey mode.
_Braby - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#30824) #
You're 100% right, a winning team is the simplest way to get people to come to the game. But if you're not winning then you have to think outside the box. Baseball seems to be making a comeback, and I feel that if the SkyDome would feel more like a Baseball Park, then the fans that come out once a year may come back two or three times because they enjoyed the experience a lot more. As I said I just get the rock concert feel when I go to a game, especially if the dome is closed, nothing is better than watching the jays on a sunday afternoon w/ the roof open. That's the stuff that makes people come back.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#30825) #
I'd be all for a fresh coat of paint. The Skydome is looking pretty worn in places.

I'm curious about this, though:

and a tiled, painted surface to cover up the visible concrete

or more accurately, I'm curious about the acoustical properties of the tiles they're planning on putting up. I sure hope they don't dampen the sound of the place. Then it'd sound even more dead than it does now.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#30826) #
and a tiled, painted surface to cover up the visible concrete

As NFH was saying a few weeks ago, wouldn't it be sweet to see Blue Jay greats on the walls?
_Prisoner of Ham - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#30827) #
It's possible to make an indoor park look too dark

some kind of twisted christmas nightmare

I'm not talking a deep Santa-red here. Brick red can be a light clay colour. I agree too dark is a bad thing. I was going for warmer.

Changing the subject -- I saw this on Newsday.com. Ken Davidoff quotes Ricciardi talking about the chances of signing Carlos: ""Quite honestly," Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said, "we're in last place with him."

I wish Ricciardi was as honest with Toronto media as he seems to be with Boston and NY writers.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#30828) #
As NFH was saying a few weeks ago, wouldn't it be sweet to see Blue Jay greats on the walls?

That would rock the free world.

I think it was Tyler who brought it up, but the Jays really need try and hilight the team's history. They shouldn't live in the past, of course, but putting pictures of guys like Whitt and Upshaw on the walls along with current Jays like Wells and Halladay would be pretty cool.
_Jonny German - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#30829) #
Jobu, I think you're jumping the gun on getting paranoid over possible changes. It's not like they've announced that they're doing ANYTHING, let alone something distasteful. All the speculation here is based on what some unnamed Blue Jays source said to Jeff Blair. Blair's pretty much the best baseball writer in Toronto, but it's not like he's quoting statements from a Paul Godfrey press conference.

I think green seats could be an improvement, but if they're going to replace the current seats there's an even bigger improvement that becomes practical: Line the seats up with the playing field! They may have to settle for swivel seats in order to accomplish the objective for baseball and maintain functionality for other events, but IMHO it would be well worth it. I hate sitting down the foul lines in the 100 level, where the seats are all aimed off into the outfield. By the third inning your back is a knotted mess.
Joe - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#30830) #
http://me.woot.net
Jobu, don't like the old timey bikes, err I mean stadiums?

_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#30831) #
I'm not saying I don't want the changes, I'm not even saying I wouldn't enjoy them. I'm just skeptical of trying to turn the Dome into something it's not and thinking that would bolster attendance. Fenway is in Boston. We have our own park and in someways it's better than Fenway and I think we make our own signature than trying to copy something else in a very chincy way.

By the way, I think the vast majority of seats in the dome have awesome sightlines, best in cheap seats in the majors maybe.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#30832) #
And to respond to Joe and his hilarious picture which made me chuckle in the middle of lecture.

I LOVE old timey ballparks, but the skydome aint one. I love Ferrari's too but a souped up Honda ain't one.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#30833) #
PS. That old man is now my desktop.
_Ryan Day - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#30834) #
Somebody needs to tell the Yankees they're doing it wrong - Yankee Stadium looks pretty blue to me.

Skydome takes a lot of abuse, but I wonder if it's not a bit overdone. Everyone says it's inferior to Fenway, Camden, etc... but given how many people in the city are actual baseball fans, I wonder if that doesn't miss the point. Are there all that many people in Toronto who've been to games in Boston, Chicago or Baltimore and actually have that frame of reference?

Prettying up the place would be nice, but isn't really necessary. Toronto fans are whores for a winner, and aesthetics usually comes in second place for a proper whore.
_Ducey - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#30835) #
So let me get this staight:

Someone's idea is to paint the seats green so that more people will come to the ballpark and sit on those seats thereby blocking the clour of the seats from view?
_MatO - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#30836) #
I wish Ricciardi was as honest with Toronto media as he seems to be with Boston and NY writers.

I believe he said the same thing a week or two ago on Wednesdays with JP on the FAN.

How about doing something funky with the outfield wall. I'm not sure what though.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#30837) #
I gotta head off to my next class now(which has no wireless internet), so have fun continuing the debate. I hearby put Ryan Day in charge of my line of arguing while I'm gone. Can't wait to check back in 3.5 hours from now :)
_Ducey - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#30838) #
Sorry should be "straight" and "colour" - yikes!
Mike Green - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#30839) #
D'ya see, Jordan, what happens, when you start us off with guns, lawyers and money? The Expos' mess, prostitutes, dogshit and Barry Bonds' steroids test.
_Ryan Day - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#30840) #
I hearby put Ryan Day in charge of my line of arguing while I'm gone.

I don't really have the energy for the debate, so I concede that Jobu was wrong.

How about tie-dying the whole dome? Also, they need to add some throw cushions, and shag carpeting in the 500 level. That is how you create a distinctive baseball experience!
_The Original Ry - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#30841) #
I LOVE old timey ballparks, but the skydome aint one. I love Ferrari's too but a souped up Honda ain't one.

I'm with you on this one. If SkyDome adopted more traditional elements, it would likely become another Tropicana Field. I think it would be difficult to copy the Busch Stadium upgrades due to the roof and the numerous other non-traditional elements currently part of SkyDome.

That's why I would like to see the Blue Jays embrace the building's non-traditionalness. SkyDome has a lot more in common with Air Canada Centre than it does Camden Yards, so why not try to adopt the elements of the former rather than the latter? SkyDome could become a truly unique ballpark and a fun place to watch a game.

One thing I've noticed in my visits to the ballparks around the majors (both new and old) is that all of them have either bare or grey-painted concrete on the floors of the concourses. Just putting some sort of tile on the floors would go a long way to brightening up the concourses at SkyDome and create a more appealing atmosphere.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#30842) #
How about tie-dying the whole dome? Also, they need to add some throw cushions, and shag carpeting in the 500 level. That is how you create a distinctive baseball experience!

Only if they create a smoking area in full view of the field.
Joe - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#30843) #
http://me.woot.net
There was some confusion a while back about just what exactly J.P. said about Carlos.

J.P. was quoted as saying "We finished in last place with him, we can finish in last place without him." There seems to be confusion about which "him" J.P. was referring to, though. In September 8th's roundup thread, Thomas and Tyler had an exchange from which I infer that J.P. was talking about Lightenberg. However, the next day 6-4-3 said he was referring to Carlos, from which I assume MatO made his comment slightly earlier today that Carlos almost certainly won't be back.

However, I could be entirely wrong. Please correct me!
_A - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#30844) #
Only if they create a smoking area in full view of the field.

And refuse to descriminate based on the substance you choose to smoke.
...Higher railings may also be in order. That'd be one long trip to the field-level seats ;-)
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#30845) #
And refuse to descriminate based on the substance you choose to smoke.

Even my special blend of pencil shavings and oregano that I like to sell to naive Grade 10 students? :)
Named For Hank - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#30846) #
At least you could say it was for their own good, Moffatt.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#30847) #
At least you could say it was for their own good, Moffatt.

For some reason I have a tough time convincing people I'm a philanthropist.
_Jayson Werth - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#30848) #
Did Toronto give me away for too little? I wasn't liking the move to LA at first, as the other Jason was pitching well. But I think I'm now the better player in the deal. Thoughts?
_Tyler - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#30849) #
Man, with this topic of conversation, sounds like some of your belong in a Detox Mansion.
_Jonathan - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#30850) #
Werth is right. After some initial magic, JP's lost another acqusition involving a reliever.
_Tyler - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#30851) #
Rule 6 under Legal/Privacy there Mr. Werth. And shouldn't you be worried about pissing away your division lead?
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#30852) #
Since players/personnel occasionally post here, we discourage the use of posting under a player's name. In the future try something like:

not the real Jayson Werth
Craig Burley in a Jayson Werth costume (or whatever your name is)

etc.
Named For Hank - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#30853) #
I prefer "Jayson Werth's Christmas Lights".
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#30854) #
IMO, JP seems to have strikeoutaphobia when it comes to position players. I doubt he'd be too happy with someone who has 75K in 289AB.

That's one concern I have with the Jays hitting philosophy. They've managed to cut down on Hinske's strikeouts, but they've also cut down on everything else that made Hinske a good player. I'd gladly take the extra 35 strikeouts for an extra 10 homers, 20 walks, and 20 doubles.
_Jonny German - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#30855) #
Interesting coincidence, "Jayson Werth" and "Jonathan", the guy who agrees with him, have the same I.P. address.
_Jordan - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#30856) #
D'ya see, Jordan, what happens, when you start us off with guns, lawyers and money?

Indeed. Next time, I'll lead with Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#30857) #
Do I remember the Dodger/Marlins trade correctly? Was it Mota and LoDuca for Penny and Choi. Now with Penny gone, it was basically Mota and LoDuca for the second-string Choi? That trade keeps looking worse.
_Rob - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#30858) #
Oh no -- someone needs to call Jayson out on the West Coast and tell him someone has broken into his house and is using his computer to agree with him!

Was it Mota and LoDuca for Penny and Choi.

Mota, LoDuca, and Encarnacion for Penny, Choi, and "Bill Murphy." He must be a propsect.
_Jordan - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#30859) #
Regarding Werth ... back in May, many people thought the Jays had robbed the Dodgers on that deal. Today, it might look a little different. I will point out that Jayson is hitting .251/.330/.440 in 175 AB against righties and .298/.385/.655 in 84 AB against lefties, so I think the jury is still out on whether he's a full-timer. Frasor was brilliant early in the season and has still shown enough to be considered for next year's pen. Werth, meanwhile, was going to be redundant in a Wells-Rios-Gross-Sparky outfield rotation.

In any event, the point of a trade is not to beat the other guy, but to create a win-win situation. If the Dodgers did well in the transaction, so much the better. Let's take a look at the deal a year after its completion and see how it looks then.
Pistol - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#30861) #
Encarnacion was in the deal too, and I think the Dodgers flipped someone from Florida to Arizona for Finley (although that part is fuzzy and I'm too lazy to look it up right now).

Ironically, the Dodgers have a better bullpen ERA and more runs scored after the trade.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#30862) #
Bill Murphy is an excellent lefthanded pitching prospect who became the critical piece in the deal to get Steve Finley from Arizona.

Encarnacion's essentially a nothing piece; he functioned as a cash substitute for the Dodgers since he was still owed something around $1.5 million and was replaceable with players on hand.

So the deal worked out more like Penny, Choi and half of Finley for Lo Duca and Mota. Choi's got what, four years left cheap, or five? Of course, if he doesn't turn it around that won't matter...

I still think LA are winning the trade. Lo Duca has hit his predictable slide (though less sharply than usual). Still, Choi's flop so far in LA has made it much closer than I originally had it.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#30863) #
From Peter Gammons:

Teammate Dave Roberts says Orlando Cabrera is one of those players who is not particularly good playing on bad teams where the only things that count are sabermetrics, but is much better playing for a good team where little things can make the difference between winning and losing .... Roberts is right about Cabrera, and the same thing can be said about Derek Jeter -- who the stats Nazis will insist from their garages isn't an exceptional shortstop
_Rob - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#30864) #
Nazis? That's a new one. Isn't UZR better than remembering two or three plays over and over again and repeating them over and over again as proof of his terrific defense?
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#30865) #
Orlando Cabrera is one of those players who is not particularly good playing on bad teams where the only things that count are sabermetrics, but is much better playing for a good team where little things can make the difference between winning and losing

Saw this over at Primer. This translates into "Cabrera sucked in Montreal, but is hitting better in Boston". The "little things" talk is BS... what Cabrera's bringing to the table is his power.

If anything, the likeliest explanation for Cabrera's "improvement" is that he was dogging it in Montreal, and has now decided to turn it back on just in time for his new payday.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#30866) #
Isn't UZR better than remembering two or three plays over and over again and repeating them over and over again as proof of his terrific defense?

THAT'S NAZI TALK! GET 'IM, BOYS!

See? It works.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#30867) #
Also from Gammons, two of his four favourite books of the summer:

"And two original ideas that worked: Rob Bradford's 'Chasing Steinbrenner,' a look at Theo Epstein and J.P. Ricciardi, and Steve Kettman's 'One Day at Fenway,' a novel, creative approach to one game.

Kettman's book is the one that turned Neyer into a two-headed green (as in jealous) monster. It was supposedly the worst book Neyer had read, ever.
_Jordan - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#30868) #
The thing about Choi's implosion is that I don't think anyone could see it coming. He was having a breakout stretch with the Marlins, hitting .270/.388/.495 in 281 AB. With the Dodgers, he's hitting .158/.286/.228 in 57 AB. That small LA sample size indicates to me that the Dodgers should gave been more patient with him, but I suppose that in a pennant race, you can't always wait out a slump. In any event, though I'd happily pick up Choi were he available this off-season, I doubt Depodesta will give up on him this quickly.
robertdudek - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#30869) #
I said from day one and I'll reiterate - the Dodgers didn't do much to improve themselves this year with the Florida trade. The piece they've missed most is Mota - take a look at what Gagne has done since the trade (he's been worked extra hard).

Choi has probably two cheap years left: 2006 will be his first arbitration year (when a player is usually paid below market value). After that, he'll be paid more of less market value (year 5 and year 6).
_G.T. - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#30870) #
one of those players who is not particularly good playing on bad teams where the only things that count are sabermetrics, but is much better playing for a good team

I think it's ridiculous to call Cabrera "one of those players" based on a few weeks. (It's not like he didn't have a good year on a bad Expo team before).

Is there anyone, though, who doesn't immediately think of Robbie Alomar in reading such a characterization? (The playing well on good teams thing, that is, not the sabermetrics stuff)
robertdudek - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#30871) #
The thing about Choi's implosion is that I don't think anyone could see it coming.

True, I didn't see it coming (though 57 AB is a very small sample). However, I did say that Choi was unlikely to get a lot of playing time this year, because that would have meant Green would have to go back to the outfield (unlikely) or sit on the bench a lot (very unlikely).

There were some in the online community who pointed to Choi's good first half and thought this was the real Choi; I thought it important to remember that to look at last year and the year before and thus temper our enthusiasm.
Mike D - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#30872) #
I have serious Josh Phelps Memorial Can't-Catch-Up-To-Quality-Heat concerns with Choi.

I do think he'd do a lot better in a more homer-friendly hitters' park, both because of his flyball profile and because he'd take advantage of the nibbling of intimidated visiting pitchers.

But I'm not sure I'd bet the farm on it.
_6-4-3 - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#30873) #
There was some confusion a while back about just what exactly J.P. said about Carlos.

Joe:

That comment definately wasn't about Ligtenberg. For one thing, it doesn't make sense: of course the Jays can win the same amounts without him, and he's not going anywhere. So, yeah, that comment was about Carlos. But JP's also said things like "we want him back, but only at the right price"

Good news: we've gone from Stats Geeks to Stats Nazis living in our parents garages! We must be doing something right.
_6-4-3 - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#30874) #
And I almost broke the roundup. Whoops.
_BCMike - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#30875) #
because that would have meant Green would have to go back to the outfield (unlikely) or sit on the bench a lot (very unlikely).

Speaking of Green, why and when did LA move him to first base?
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#30876) #
It concerns me when JP says things like: "We finished in last with him, we can finish in last without him" about Carlos Delgado. Delgado is an exceptional person who has spent half of his life in the Blue Jays organization. Now this new, uppity GM comes and gives him a week to consider a trade, only to leak the request to the media three days later. There is a concerning lack of diplomacy in JP Ricciardi - he is in a people business.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#30877) #
Italics suspended for the rest of the season, and the post-season (if we make it)
Mike Green - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#30878) #
Boston and Oakland apparently have the most up-to-date statistical information on defence, much more than is available publicly. I'd love to have seen their numbers on Cabrera and Garciaparra.

To suggest that the Red Sox acquired Cabrera because they weren't being slaves to "Stat-Nazism" is kind of bizarre. I'd bet dollars to donuts that defensive stats had a lot to do with the acquisition; but we just don't have the particular stats that they do.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#30879) #
Whoa.... I missed something. I see Jeter dog plays up the middle every other night and consider him over rated and now I'm a Nazi? First I had old timey bike man chasing me because I didn't think Skydome could be forced into an old timey park and now the Allies are going to invade my garage because I think New York media over hypes Jeter. Great. What a friggen day so far....
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#30880) #
I'm with Jobu about the SkyDome. I don't think we need a Wrigley-clone with an obstacle course in the outfield. We have one of the best, modern sports facilities in the world, let's celebrate modernity with SkyDome. Why does everything have to look old? What was the great futuristic baseball game on the original Nintendo, by "Culture Brain"?
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#30881) #
Could you be thinking of "BaseWars"? One of the greatest videogames I have ever played.
_The Original Ry - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#30882) #
I've never been in the seating area of the ACC. What elements of it could the Skydome benefit from? I agree that anything consistent with what it is would work better.

It would be a combination of aesthetics and presentation. Air Canada Centre has a bright, clean, modern look and feel to it from the minute you walk through the doors. There's lots of colour and a number of things to catch your eye, both in the concourses and seating areas. I've only been to the ACC for Raptors games, but they also put on a real good show with the technology they have.

I think SkyDome has that potential. All it needs is a facelift. It already sounds like the Blue Jays plan to improve upon the current technology that's installed. After that, the concourses could be re-done in a style similar to what we see in modern arenas, the seating areas could be brightened up (I'm opposed to going with baseball's standard dark green), and if the Argos moved into a new facility, some of the makeshift elements that come standard with a multi-purpose stadium could be eliminated (such as the 100 level outfield seats that don't quite fit the field's shape).

Even though SkyDome was the last in a generation of multi-purpose facilities, it has many of the elements seen in the newer ballparks. It has private boxes, club seating, modern amenities for players, etc. They're just packaged differently.

I personally hope the Blue Jays aren't going to try to turn SkyDome into Camden Yards. For what it would take to do that successfully, they'd be better off building Camden Yards from scratch. If the Blue Jays do indend to update SkyDome, they should play the cards they were dealt and work within the framework of what the stadium was originally intended to me: a modern showpiece for stadium design.
_Prisoner of Ham - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#30883) #
Paint it, that's all I'm saying.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#30884) #
I didn't think this was possible, but McCowan is even more annoying when you can see his face while he does his show. And what is going on with the sunglasses indoors!?
_Tyler - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#30885) #
http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp;jsessionid=KLOJFDHNEEJM?content=20040927_173219_5332
York is reporting that the Jays are going to offer Delgado 21 over 3 years...COMN.
_Tyler - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#30886) #
http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp;jsessionid=KLOJFDHNEEJM?content=20040927_173219_5332
York is reporting that the Jays are going to offer Delgado 21 over 3 years...COMN.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#30887) #
If Delgado takes that deal, he's giving the Jays an absolutely huge hometown discount.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#30888) #
Not only is that huge, that's almost a 40% paycut. Will the union even allow him to take such a hometown discount?
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#30889) #
I don't see what the union could do to stop him, other than frown at him and exclude him from all their Reindeer Games.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some team willing to pay Delgado $14mil per year for the next 3 years, so Carlos would be giving up half his salary to stay in Toronto. It'd be awesome if that happened, but I'd file this one under "Very Unlikely".
robertdudek - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#30890) #
I'd say that deal is about what Delgado is worth on the open market. Maybe he's worth a bit more - say 24 million over three years. You have to take his age, as well as his ordinary/below-average defensive play into account. BUT, I also have no doubt that several teams will offer him more than that.

What am I trying to say? Only that Delgado and his fans ought not to be insulted by that kind of offer - it's a fair one.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#30891) #
The Blue Jays would like to re-sign Delgado next week

Does this mean during the first week of the post-season? Is that even allowed?
_Tyler - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#30892) #
There was something I read about that I think I've mentioned here before; I believe it was called the winner's curse. Someone will overestimate what Delgado can do for their club, and pay way too much. As for the union bullying him-I'm not one that thinks it takes great courage to oppose the war-in Canada it's less popular to say you're for it (I am!), but I think he's shown he does/thinks what he wants to do. Delgado will make the decision about what's most important to him, I just think it'll be hard to turn down 10-12 mil for 7 mil in Toronto.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#30893) #
Keep in mind, the way York has described the contract that only the first two years are guaranteed.

Can anyone honestly see Delgado signing a $14mil - 2 year deal? He could probably sign a one year deal and make $14 mil next season.

RE: Winner's Curse. You've got it right, Tyler. David Marasco wrote a great piece about the Winner's Curse which he allowed me to reprint on my site. See "The Winner's Curse - Oil Field Economics and Baseball".
robertdudek - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#30894) #
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some team willing to pay Delgado $14mil per year for the next 3 years, so Carlos would be giving up half his salary to stay in Toronto.

I would.

The list of teams that might offer Delgado that kind of money is very short - perhaps a null list. Consider:

Yankees - can afford that. But they're commited to Giambi and I see them trying to spend money on pitching.

Boston - not much room at the corner infield/DH with Ortiz around. They seem to be following the Oakland model and emphasising defence, so I doubt they'll go for a below average defender.

Anaheim - the most likely team (IMO) to offer a big contract. That's predicated on Erstad moving back to the outfield when Guillen is shipped off or released. Kotchman is on the scene but if Moreno really wants Carlos he'll get him. I don't think he'll have to offer as much as 14 million a year.

LA - DePodesta doesn't seem the sort to throw big money at an aging 1B. Plus he's got Choi who he likes.

Baltimore - Won't offer 42 mill (more like 35 mil) because of the threat of a Washington team cutting into their revenues.

Cubs- No way. Derrek Lee is arguably a better all-around player than Carlos.

Houston - Bagwell; no money.

Mets - Desperation may make them bid aggressively, but I just don't see them going that high.

Seattle - Money coming off the books, but a lot of holes to fill. They'll pursue him, but not at the cost of 14 mill a year.

In sum, Carlos just doesn't have the market value Vlad and Sheffield did in the last off-season, so I don't see him approaching their contracts.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#30895) #
I admit, $42 mil is pretty much an upper bound. But it's a lot closer to reality than $21 mil (or $14 for 2). Like most of Marty York's rumours, this one is safe to ignore.
_Rob - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#30896) #
The Blue Jays would like to re-sign Delgado next week

Does this mean during the first week of the post-season? Is that even allowed?


Good point. They signed Cat a few weeks ago, but that was the season (obviously). Can a club sign players to extensions during postseason play?
_Rob - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#30897) #
And yes, it is Marty York. Ignore it, people. ;)
_Magpie - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#30898) #
anyone else wish that they trimmed the outfield fence off a foot or so.

Yes! Yes!

"Quite honestly," Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said, "we're in last place with him."

Why, that devious man. Trying to drive Delgado's market value down...
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#30899) #
one more thing...anyone else wish that they trimmed the outfield fence off a foot or so.

I didn't see this until Magpie quoted it.

I'd love to see them move the fences back about 15-20 feet and take a chance on a flyball prone pitcher or two. The Jays have outfielders who can cover a whole lot of ground, and they could make teams like the Red Sox look really foolish while playing in the Dome.
Mike Green - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#30900) #
Move the fences back 15-20 feet, check.
Delgado's market value $10-$12 million per annum, check.
Marvin Gaye, check.

Moffatt, you're on a roll.
_Magpie - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#30901) #
the Jays are going to offer Delgado 21 over 3 years...

That's better than David Ortiz. Ortiz is at 4.5 this year, and he signed an extension for two more years for 12.5.

I'm sure Delgado recognizes that the market has changed, he's coming off a sub-par year, and he's not going to get Jim Thome money.

I would think he's looking for something in between David Ortiz and Vladimir Guerrero. Obviously, the closer to Vlad the better, and that deal works out to 14 million a year. But I really can't see anyone giving Delgado that much - I can't see Anaheim giving him as much money as they're giving Vlad... I can sure see someone giving him 10 or 12 million on a three year deal.

I think a very big issue down the road is going to be how much of the contract is guaranteed. All of it? Or perhaps a deal that can be guaranteed by meeting certain objectives (probably games played).

Anyway, if this information is correct (True, that's one big if. Take it from me, Marty York - Rich Harden will be the Oakland closer by the ASB) - the Blue Jays are opening the bidding closer to the David Ortiz level.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#30902) #
Moffatt, you're on a roll.

I'm going to quit while I'm ahead, then. See you all tomorrow!
_G.T. - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#30903) #
I didn't think this was possible, but McCowan is even more annoying when you can see his face while he does his show.

Whose brilliant idea was this show?

In HD, no less?!

If Sportsnet can broadcast this nonsense in HD, what's TSN's excuse for not getting HD games on the air? Oh, I forgot... they're fulfilling their HD mandate with "Scooter Trash"...

And what is going on with the sunglasses indoors!?

If you have to ask, you couldn't possibly understand. :)

When I saw J.P. making a beeline north from Skydome after the "blackout game" against the Yankees, he was wearing his shades, despite that day's downpour and complete lack of sun...
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#30904) #
And what is going on with the sunglasses indoors!?

I don' know McCown, so I ca't say, but could it be that he has an eye condition where he can't see in bright light? (This is very common) TV studios have very bright lights and if he couldn't read the cards/teleprompt, or see cues, it would hurt him a fair bit. The shades may be to compensate for that, I don't know.

No one on earth could possibly do that because it looks cool, is all I'm saying, because nobody is that stupid.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#30905) #
Somehow JP's and Cory Hart's love of sunglasses don't strike me as nearly as annoying as McCowan's indoor shades and 3 day beard.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#30906) #
Okay, I lied. One more post.

I just found this on Snopes. It debunks the myth around Wally Pipp's "headache": Wally Pipp.

I always thought that story was true. This is the first I've heard otherwise.
_Magpie - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#30907) #
I'd love to see them move the fences back about 15-20 feet

Wait a second... I can feel his spirit... is it going to speak through me.... it will... what do you want to say Mr Towers?

PLEASE! PLEASE ! PLEASE ! Move them back....

Thank you Josh. I'd like to see the fences lowered. What's the point of a 12 foot outfield fence?

For years now, STATS has kept track of outfielders stealing HRs by climbing the wall. (God only knows what they do with the actual data, but we track it!) Its an automatic prompt in the software whenever an OF catches a fly at a distance greater than the shortest fence.

Just once I'd like to be able to click YES - he did steal a HR. :-)

Derrek Lee is arguably a better all-around player than Carlos.

That's interesting - he is a more complete player than Delgado (does Lee have any weaknesses? he's about as complete a player as you could want), and he's three years younger. He's a very good hitter, whereas Delgado (normally) is a great hitter. I thought Lee might emerge this year as a great hitter (just getting out of South Florida and moving into Wrigley figured to do the trick.) It hasn't quite happened, but he's still been awfully good.

Lee's deal is $22.5 over three years. Delagdo's reps can certainly point to the hitting numbers and say Delgado is worth more than that.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#30908) #
Oh Moffatt...... you got greedy.

Someone already posted an entire thread on that article a week or two ago. You couldnt just walk away with the perfect roll?
_Scott Levy - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#30909) #
It would be a great story. A man who is finishing a $68 million deal over four years, one of the top contracts is baseball history, will sign with the only team he has been with for a more economically feasible $21 million over 3 years.

It won't happen though.

This is just the starting offer. Delgado and his agent will come back with something like $33 million over 3 years, and away Carlos goes in what will be called "Escobar Part II".

I'm already prepared for life without Carlos. Let's hope Ricciardi can snag some good talent with the extra money. I hope the Dodgers don't sign him, since I want to stay far away from Hee Seop Phelps.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#30910) #
Oh Moffatt...... you got greedy.

Someone already posted an entire thread on that article a week or two ago. You couldnt just walk away with the perfect roll?


D'oh!

I must have missed it. Sorry earlier poster.
_Magpie - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#30911) #
could it be that he has an eye condition where he can't see in bright light?

That would be news to me, he hasn't done it before.

Two possible excuses: a) he might have a temporary problem with his eyes. Maybe he just had laser surgery or something. Who knows? b) he could have hay fever. Its that time of year, and my own eyes are red and watering with alarming and annoying frequency. And sometimes I even wear my sunglasses at night.
Thomas - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:06 PM EDT (#30913) #
J.P. was quoted as saying "We finished in last place with him, we can finish in last place without him." There seems to be confusion about which "him" J.P. was referring to, though. In September 8th's roundup thread, Thomas and Tyler had an exchange from which I infer that J.P. was talking about Lightenberg. However, the next day 6-4-3 said he was referring to Carlos, from which I assume MatO made his comment slightly earlier today that Carlos almost certainly won't be back.

Joe, the "him" in that question about last place was always Delgado. There was a question about Kerry which JP answered "very honestly" on the prior week's radio show which a caller referred to when asking about Delgado. I was trying to figure out what that question was, and hence, that maybe the confusion.

The "We're going to finish in last place with him" comment refers to Delgado.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#30914) #
Cory Hart's Christmas Lights

Now *that's* a handle.
Craig B - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:25 PM EDT (#30915) #
We're going to finish in last place with him

This was about to get me off on a rant. Then I thought "Save it, Craig, save it. There's no point in kicking a man when he's down."

Comments like this don't make me happy.
_Jobu - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:25 PM EDT (#30916) #
If only we'd ever get to know who really is the man behind those shades.... I mean handle.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#30917) #
Comments like this don't make me happy.

The really strange this is that I had made the same comment just two days earlier in reference to a Bob Elliott column. I'm sure it was just a coincidence, but it did make me do a double take when JP said it.

So much for staying away. :)
_6-4-3 - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#30918) #
Could you be thinking of "BaseWars"? One of the greatest videogames I have ever played.

I am quite serious when I say that we *need* more robotic baseball games. Why has this market dissapeared? On the NES, there was Base Wars. On the SNES, there was Super Baseball 2020 (no fighting, better ideas). Since then, there's been nothing. I miss the crazy games like that, where close plays were decided by fights (base wars), there was no foul territory, and most of the foul + outfield bleachers were covered in glass (Super Baseball 2020), or where your pitcher could stop a pitch in midair / throw a 200 MPH fastball (Baseball Simulator 1.000) Now those were the glory days of baseball games. Not that the current ones are bad, but the closest baseball game to that is MLB Slugfest.

Back to the Jays: If the deal is 2 years, 7 million per year, some team will beat it. It might not make sense, but I'd have to imagine that there's a team that's willing to spend 10 million per season for Delgado. Not necessarily because it's a smart thing to do, but because bidding wars always tend to happen when there's a marquee player avaliable.
_Keith Talent - Monday, September 27 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#30919) #
Baseball Simulator 1.000 - that's it! From "Culture Brain".

About those green seats: see the crowd at Baltimore tonight - it's probably about 15,000 but the stadium looks far less barren than in SkyDome, where those blue seats really show you who's not there.
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