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I had a friend was a big baseball player -- back in high school
He could throw that speedball by you, make you look like a fool boy
Saw him the other night at this roadside bar; I was walking in, he was walking out
We went back inside sat down had a few drinks
but all he kept talking about was
Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days

Question of the Day: What are your specific major league baseball (and other professional sports) memories of the year you graduated from high school? (If you did not attend or graduate from high school or live in a country where "high school" is not a relevant term, go with "the year you turned 18.")
Friday QOTD/MYOR: Glory Daze | 83 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Mick - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:07 AM EST (#3759) #
1984 was the year of the Detroit Tiger ... I was living 40 miles from Detroit, though not a Tiger fan per se, and it was hard not to get caught up in a team that started the year 35-5. "Bless You Boys!"

It was the year Michael Jordan was the third pick in the NBA draft, and the year my hometown put together an incredible ice rink triple crown, as Bowling Green State University won the NCAA Division I championship, Bowling Green High School (I did not go there, FWIW) won the Ohio state varsity hockey title, and Bowling Green native Scott Hamilton took home the gold medal in the '84 Winter Olympics for figure skating.

But for baseball, 1984 belonged to the Tigers. Jack Morris, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Kirk Gibson, Dan Petry, Willie Hernandez, Lance Parrish, even Rusty Kuntz, Johnny Grubb and Milt Wilcox. Probably the best team ever assembled to not get a single player in the Hall of Fame -- although it was managed by a Hall of Famer, Sparky Anderson.

It was also the year, apparently, that LeBron James was born, so excuse, I need to go find my Geritol.
_Erin - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:28 AM EST (#3760) #
Boston winning the World Series!
_Mick - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:40 AM EST (#3761) #
Erin, you're class of 2004? Maybe we should have a secondary QOTD to determine the freshest-faced Bauxites.
Gitz - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:44 AM EST (#3762) #
Pisser giving out my age, but oh well. 1987 was the year of the home run. Approximately 190 players hit 30, and Wade Boggs hit 24, which, when adjusted for the Boggs In No Other Season Had More Than 10 Factor, is actually 44 home runs.

It was also the year that, watching from my dorm room at USC, I urged Todd Worrell to throw Will Clark a 3-2 change-up. He did, and the Cardinals were on their way to World Series, where they would lose to the Twins.

Anything happen in Blue Jay land, like, say, losing every game the final week of the 1987 season?
_Cristian - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:53 AM EST (#3763) #
My graduating year wasn't that memorable. However the year before my graduation year was much more memorable. It was Canada's 125th anniversary and our school took advantage of free airline tickets that were being offered to high school students who organized exchanges with Canadians in different parts of the country. A bunch of other Edmontonians and I got to go to Windsor. It was my first time in Ontario. Of course, the educational exchange turned into a huge party week where most of us experimented with alcohol and other substances that shall remain unnamed. I took part in all of this but there was one day I made sure to stay clean and sober. That was Game 6 of the 1992 World Series. I and the few other diehard fans (most people in Windsor were Tiger fans) watched the game in the midst of the drunken debauchery of our high school peers. Of course once Timlin got the final out, the few of us who had put off underage substance abuse for the night had a greater reason to celebrate. As cheesy and as "afterschool special" as it may sound, the natural high of that night beats any chemically induced night I've ever had.
Leigh - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:44 AM EST (#3764) #
The Jays finished four games behind the Red Sox for the AL Wild Card in my graduation year, 1998.
_David A - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 03:04 AM EST (#3765) #
Christian as somebody who goes to university in Windsor (that's what you get for sleeping in class in high school) I hope you've had the privilege of experiencing other parts of Ontario since. In terms of the baseball fans I've met since moving here, it's 50-50 Jays/Tigers, but it really does come down to whether you're from the area, or just go to school here.
_Shrike - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:24 AM EST (#3766) #
Grad of 1992 here.

I hear the Blue Jays were good back then . . . something about winning the first of two consecutive World Series championships.
_JackFoley - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:35 AM EST (#3767) #
1999 is significant for me; it was the season where I rediscovered baseball after falling out of love with it in 94.
_mathesond - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:59 AM EST (#3768) #
Class of '88...Jack Buck could not believe what he just saw in Game 1...Sonic Youth released Daydream Nation...George Bell wouldn't DH, but he would hit 3 home runs on Opening Day...Wayne Gretzky got traded...Michael Dukakis was a nice guy that finished last...the hangover from the collapse of '87 landed the Jays in what, 4th place I believe?...Favourite memory: The Star doing a Blue Jays midseason review, and prominently displayed was a picture of Bell laughing in the dugout while smoking a cigarette
_Four Seamer - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 08:24 AM EST (#3769) #
1995, a (common sense) revolutionary year here in Ontario. Was that really ten years ago already? One of the worst years in Blue Jay history, although I was pretty excited about a rookie by the name of Shawn Green, who I thought might become one of the greatest Jays ever to don the blue and white. Dave Justice hitting that big home run off Jim Poole (!) to win Game 6 for the Braves. The Cowboys winning their third of three Super Bowls in the 1990s, despite a two-game losing streak mid-season that caused a lot of people to write them off.

I can't remember anything else, to be honest. Between graduating high school and starting university, I had other things on my mind in 1995. Luckily, 1996 came and I was able to get my priorities back in order!
_Daryn - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 08:48 AM EST (#3770) #
My Grad Year was 1984... the year BEFORE something interesting happened... I think the big deal that year was the infamous Bill Caudil signing...

but I have a 1995 story.. I was in Detriot watching the Jays, and some kid came out to pitch wearing a Jersey with 'Green' on it.. well according to the post game show, it was Huck Flener, and he was so excited when he got his call-up that he left all his gear behind... borrowed shoes from someone, a glove from another.

anyway, he arrives during the game, so no one sees him in the dressing room and when he came out onto the mound, according to "sources" Pat Borders came out to the mound and said,

"Hi, I'm Pat, what do you throw?"
Pistol - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 08:50 AM EST (#3771) #
I graduated HS in 1993, so the Jays won the WS in the fall of my senior year, and the fall of my freshman year of college.
Lucas - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:03 AM EST (#3772) #
1986... a while ago.

From my dorm room at the University of Texas with a bunch of Houston transplants, I watched the Astros lose two consecutive, agonizing extra-inning games to the Mets. "Game Six" entered the lexicon just over a week later, but Houston fans have their own Game Six.

My team of preference played its best baseball in ten years. 35-year-old rookie manager Bobby Valentine took a group of rookies (Bobby Witt, Jose Guzman, Ed Correa, Mitch Williams, Pete Incaviglia, Ruben Sierra) to within five games of a division title. A guy named Kevin Brown also got in five innings.
_Marc - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:10 AM EST (#3773) #
COMN for a great article about D-Rays former first round pick Josh Hamilton.

The year I graduated high school, the shine was starting to come off the Jays as they finished 74-88, only three years after winning their second consecutive World Series. The Jays were making opponents quake in their boots with a starting lineup that included Otis Nixon, Charlie O'Brien and Tomas Perez. Ed Sprague had a career year and some guy named Carlos Delgado played his first full season. Pat Hentgen won 20 games and the AL Cy Young Award. 1988 Cy Young Award winner Frank Viola finally realized his career was over. Juan Guzman looked like a pitcher who get help the Jays get back to the World Series.

Oh and the evil Yankees started their dominance of the American League East and baseball in general.
_Jim Acker - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:13 AM EST (#3774) #
1994...the strike..Vitalogy...Scotty Thurman...

Quick question, of the regualar bauxites, who's not from the T.O. area? Just curious
Pistol - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:17 AM EST (#3775) #
I'm originally from Western NY and now reside in JP's neighborhood.

Back in the pre cable days (up until about 1991 for me) I'd go up on the roof and adjust the TV antenna so I could see the Jays on CTV every Wednesday and Sunday.
_H winfield Teut - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:34 AM EST (#3776) #
Let's see, apparently by what I see, baseball was played with clubs and rocks comparitively to most posters. I had to cheat, but looking at an old media guide, of course written on the side of a cliff, I found really nothing noteable the Jays did. But if memory serves correct, Jim Gott did pitch to One Cal Ripken to start "the streak." Oh, but I am not quite old enough to have been in Highschool during a popular faze of another "streaking." But, I can only imagine, if they had built Skydome that year, the BeeGees and Village People singing the national anthems. Jays fans may have missed a game to watch the last episode of MASH. OK, nuff of that.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:37 AM EST (#3777) #
1989. Picture it. The Jays first game has a department store linescore:

WP: Montgomery (1-0)
LP: Ward (0-1)

The Jays stink the joint out for the first month or so, with the bullpen failing as completely and comprehensively as they did this year. Only McGriff, Gruber and Cerutti look like they're capable of doing anything right. Jimy Williams gets fired and Cito takes over.

A young Matthew E and his brother are present for the final game in Exhibition Stadium, sitting in the most remote of nosebleed seats. George Bell hits a walkoff home run to send everyone home happy.

The Jays move into SkyDome, which is everything it was promised to be.

Meanwhile, the Orioles are surprising everyone by leading the division, despite the fact that they really don't have much talent. The Jays begin to rise in the standings and catch Baltimore in the waning days of the season, and pull ahead just enough so that two-out-of-three against Baltimore in the final three games will give Toronto their second AL East crown. They do it.

Standouts include rookie Junior Felix and fill-in starting pitcher Mauro 'Goose' Gozzo.

The playoffs against Oakland are anticlimactic. The Jays have no chance against the A's and everyone knows it. (A young Matthew E and his father are present at SkyDome for Game 4, an Oakland victory.) Still, the Jays do win one game, which is more than San Francisco manages in a World Series broken up by a terrible earthquake.

Apparently there was also something that year about the Cold War ending and the Berlin Wall coming down, but, you know, whatever.
_MatO - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:52 AM EST (#3778) #
1977. I was at the first Jays game. Also, Hector Torres hitting the first Jays grand slam off of Ron Guidry who had a no-hitter going but had walked the bases full. He wasn't quite RON GUIDRY yet.

Matthew I might have been sitting near you way out in centre field for that last game at the Ex. What really got me about the game was that people started leaving before the game was over. This was the last game at the Ex and it was a close game! This was so typical of Jays games when they were drawing a lot of fans. A lot of people were there for the event but weren't really baseball fans.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 09:57 AM EST (#3779) #
MatO: I wasn't in centre field; I was way way up in the extreme right field corner. I was looking down at the right field wall, and I was worried that if I leaned back I'd fall out of the stadium.
_Kieran - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:01 AM EST (#3780) #
Acker, make that two of us for '94.
_Mick - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:03 AM EST (#3781) #
who's not from the T.O. area?
The residences of all the Roster members are on the Roster page in the left navigation bar. I'm from the deep TO suburb of Dallas/Fort Worth, personally.

Speaking of Texas, did you all see that Doug Melvin has continued his quest to turn the Brewers into Texas Rangers North by signing former 20-game winner (no matter what you say, nobody can take that appellation away from him) Rick Helling? Of course, the impace is less dramatic with Scooter Podsednik and Danny Kolb no longer in the Ranger-Brewer pipeline fold.
_Donkit R.K. - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:04 AM EST (#3782) #
I'm living in Antigonish, Nova Scotia as we speak going to school but I still call Northern Cape Breton (aka *ahem*God's Country*ahem*) home. Time for Philosophy class...
_MatO - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:05 AM EST (#3783) #
Matthew, those were AWFUL seats, er.. benches. At least under the grandstand they were actual seats with backs, but in centre field the game was just a rumour.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:08 AM EST (#3784) #
MatO: do you still have your souvenir booklet from that game? Pastel drawings with a little short story about how the narrator grew up as a Jays fan? Good stuff.
Mike Green - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:10 AM EST (#3785) #
'76. The Big Red Machine Redux. 1975 and 1977 were so much more interesting. 1975 had Lynn and Rice bursting on the scene, and the best offence I've ever seen, capped off with a great World Series. Young fans are familiar with Fisk's homer off the foul pole, but the series had much more than that, great D, Bernie Carbo and Lynn. The punch line, a bloop single by Morgan to centerfield to score Rose to break a 3-3 tie late in the 7th game, will always be stuck in my memory. As for 1977, great things usually have inauspicious beginnings...

And if anyone has any interest in high school in North America in 1976, check out the Richard Linklater movie Dazed and Confused. He captures brilliantly the clothing, the language and the attitude of the time.
_Tassle - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:20 AM EST (#3786) #
BoSox win the World Series...Jays have ridiculously disappointing year...Raptors trade Vince..Leafs fall in second round, extending drought to 37 years...but at least they beta the Sens...NHL lockout begins...Ron Artest goes completely insane...Giambi admits to using steroids

All things considered, it looks like I picked a pretty shitty year to graduate.
_MatO - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:23 AM EST (#3787) #
No, I don't think I have it the book. Don't remember it even. I had the ticket stub from the first Jays game in 1977 but can't seem to find it after marriage and several moves.
_Frank Markotich - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:26 AM EST (#3788) #
Way, way back in 1967 - there were no Blue Jays and Toronto's triple A team was in the process of dying off and being moved to Louisville (the next year?). The Red Sox won an unexpected AL pennant in a close 4-team race.

The main highlight of the year for me was the Leafs winning their last Stanley Cup. At the time, it was their fourth Cup in six years - if I'd known about the drought to come I would have appreciated it more.

Oh yeah, there was that Centennial thing too.
_Jordan - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:26 AM EST (#3789) #
The summer I graduated from high school in 1985 was exhilirating. In late September, George Bell caught Ron Hassey's weak liner to left field, fell to his knees and pumped his arms as the Jays captured the American League East (Phil Niekro won his 300th game for the Yanks the next day, essentially against the Syracuse Skychiefs).

I watched Dave Stieb deliver one of the greatest playoff performances ever in Game 1 of the ALCS against the Royals, and I listened on the radio in mounting frustration as the Jays couldn't put the series away in Game 5 against Danny Jackson. I came to fear George Brett and to hate Jim Sundberg. And in the dying moments of Game 7, for some odd reason, I still remember the drunk who fell out of the right-field stands and delayed the game, and Tony Kubek assuring NBC viewers that the Jays had a young stud in Syl Campusano who had a chance to be one of the greatest of all time.

The next day, in my History 1000 classroom, someone had scribbled on the blackboard:

Blue Jays

My Edmonton Oilers won their second Stanley Cup in the spring of '85, and my sad-sack New England Patriots, led by Tony Eason of all people, were working their way to their very first Super Bowl appearance. So what if the Jays lost to the Royals, the Patriots were buried 46-10 by the Bears, and Steve Smith would accidentally finish the Oilers' 1985-86 season in ignominy? It was still a year for the ages.
_Cristian - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:36 AM EST (#3790) #
Jordan, my teams are also the Jays, Oilers, and Patriots. Eerie, huh? Whatís your favorite basketball team?
_Daryn - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:41 AM EST (#3791) #
Matthew I might have been sitting near you way out in centre field for that last game at the Ex. What really got me about the game was that people started leaving before the game was over. This was the last game at the Ex and it was a close game! This was so typical of Jays games when they were drawing a lot of fans. A lot of people were there for the event but weren't really baseball fans.

I was at that game, Bell hit it, Thigpen threw it.. it landed about 4 seats in front of me and 6 seats over...

one of the things I found remarkable was that the concessions were all closed by the 7th, and by the end of the game were cleaned completely out, including the lightbulbs..

guess they figured on a riot.
_Daryn - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:47 AM EST (#3792) #
Well, I had to look it up too...nothing remarkable in team play in 1984 but Willie Hernandez won the 1984 MVP

as a PITCHER, with the line,
80 games played (no starts)
140 Innings
30 ER,
1.92 ERA.
32 Saves....

that IS remarkable.
average appearance more than 5 outs,
and 48 non-save games at LEAST 20 of which were scoreless..
_Scully - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:00 AM EST (#3793) #
The year was 1988, and I'm an Orioles fan.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:05 AM EST (#3794) #
The year was 1988, and I'm an Orioles fan.

Man. That was a dark time for the rebellion, indeed.
_Scully - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:09 AM EST (#3795) #
1989 was a lot more fun -- up until the last couple of days, at least. It was a good year for Jays fans, though, and the beginning of a pretty nice run.
_Grand Funk Rail - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:24 AM EST (#3796) #
(Phil Niekro won his 300th game for the Yanks the next day, essentially against the Syracuse Skychiefs).

They were just known as the Syracuse Chiefs back then.
Ahhhh, the halcyon days, before all these left-wing pinkos up on their PC soapboxes guilted teams into changing their names.

Grand Funk out.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:41 AM EST (#3797) #
Phil Niekro won his 300th game for the Yanks the next day, essentially against the Syracuse Skychiefs

With John Cerutti making his first major league start for the Jays.
_GregH - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:44 AM EST (#3798) #
Maybe we should have a secondary QOTD to determine the freshest-faced Bauxites.

Or maybe one to determine the oldest-faced!!

1969 - The Amazin' Mets - You Gotta Believe!
_Jordan - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:46 AM EST (#3799) #
Cristian, I never actually got that much into roundball. I suppose I followed the Celtics originally because (a) that was my high school team's name, (b) we got the Boston sports coverage in our cable feed from Bangor, Maine (does anyone else remember Eddie Driscoll?) and (c) as Spike Lee wisely noted, Larry Bird was the default basketball hero for unathletic white teens. But the sport never really stuck with me.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 11:54 AM EST (#3800) #
does anyone else remember Eddie Driscoll?

I lived in Dalhousie, NB from '80 to '84, so I remember him well. I used to watch 'The Great Money Movie', where they'd pretend that old episodes of 'Battlestar Galactica' and the live-action Spider-Man show were movies. And when he'd do the community announcements he'd finish off by inviting people to send in any community announcements they wanted read, and "we'll put it on for you", which he'd always try to say in a more bizarre manner than the last time.

That, too, was a dark time for the rebellion.
_Blue in SK - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:07 PM EST (#3801) #
Thanks GregH, I was gonna post about my graduating class of '82 from Moose Jaw, SK but was worried about being the oldest to participate. I'm pretty sure the Jays caravan came through around the same time and played against the NBI at Taylor Field in Regina. The left field porch was an inviting 250ft or so, to compensate they put up a 20ft mesh fence.
_csimon - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:28 PM EST (#3802) #
1963--Dodgers swept the Yankees. Gosh--it's getting tough to remember back that far
_Fozzy - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 12:57 PM EST (#3803) #
I posted this in yesterday's thread by mistake, so here it is again:

According to Rotoworld, the Dodgers waived former outfielder prospect Chin-Feng Chen for assignment. A righty, he hit .289/.359/.584 in AAA last year. Might be an interesting pick-up if the Jays can slip him into AAA.
_Cristian - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 01:11 PM EST (#3804) #
Jordan, this is amazing! My basketball inquiry was a trick question. I canít stand basketball and have no favorite team myself. Although, if I was forced to pick a team at gunpoint it would have to be the Celtics. The Bruins are my second favorite NHL team and I was always curious about all the Celtic banners in the old Boston Garden.
_Tassle - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 01:18 PM EST (#3805) #
Then I guess you two have to be bestest best friends forever!
_Marc - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 01:35 PM EST (#3806) #
I agree, Fozzy. Chen would be an interesting pickup, but he is out of options so the Jays would have to knock him from their 40 man roster to send him to the minors, at which time another team might grab him. I doubt the Jays have room for him on their roster to start the season given that he is a corner outfield guy who could play a little 1B and they will likely carry seven bullpen guys.
Gitz - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 01:58 PM EST (#3807) #
For those of you with ESPN Insider -- I get it for free, yippee! -- Rob Neyer's column today deals with the clash of scouting and sabermetrics. His conclusion is not altogether surprising: that the two sides will never really co-exist together, because, well ... they can't.

Scouts simply won't believe there's nothing special about high-school pitchers, because if they believe that -- along with a host of other chestnuts -- then they have to re-evaluate their own worth in the world, since so much of their value resides in the supposed ability to predict what a 17-year-old pitcher will be doing in six or eight years. And re-evaluating your worth -- in this case, downward -- isn't fun for anybody. So scouts cling to their beliefs; they overvalue the information that reinforces them, and undervalue the information that undermines them.

That entire quote is compelling, but I'm going to pass up the chance to comment on re-evaluating one's worth in the world and head to the last sentence. Neyer admits that sabermetricians are guilty of the same "psychological foibles" but, unlike the scouts, they are balanced by "the data." Only, what constitutes "data"? Is a player's disposition, his "intangibles," data? OK, so we can't measure those things, at least not with numbers, etc. etc. etc. Must something be measured to be considered "data"? It seems to me that "subjective" data is a kind of data, albeit an imperfect one, but even objective data is imperfect, as everyone knows. This wraps us back to the quote above, and how we all overvalue information that reinforces our beliefs and undervalue that which does the opposite. Incidentally, I put "subjective" in quotes, because "character," while in theory subjective, concretizes when a player is found to be smoking marijuana or taking banned substances. What's subjective, of course, is the overall effect of, for lack of a better word, a "clubhouse cancer" on a baseball team. As with most things in this debate, it's not as irrelevant as the sabermetricians make it out to be, but nor is it as important as the "traditionalists" feel. The question, and Neyer mentions this, is what's more important, objective data or subjective data? Neyer obviously, believes that sabermetrics carries more weight than scouting, though he doesn't admit it.

Anyway, Neyer's article is the same road others have gone down, but that doesn't make it any less interesting, and if you've got the access to Insider, it's worth the read.
_Lee - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:00 PM EST (#3808) #
Anything happen in Blue Jay land, like, say, losing every game the final week of the 1987 season?

Oh, the horror...
Gitz - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:07 PM EST (#3809) #
Oh, fiddly-dee. I just re-hashed what those guys said in the BA round-table discussion with Alan Schwartz, which is now being offered on ESPN. My bad.
_Ryan C - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:14 PM EST (#3810) #
Good point Gitz, and it's an interesting discussion. Stats minded people tend to put alot of value in stats that they understand and that re-inforce their own opinions, however those opinions happened to be formed. I think the sabr community is much better at evaluating and challenging it's own ideas than the scouting community, but if we focus on stats alone then we ignore the parts of the game that are difficult to measure or that cannot be measured currently. And just because something cannot be measured doesnt mean it doesnt exist or have an impact on the game.
_Mick - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:26 PM EST (#3811) #
Anxiously awaiting the new forthcoming book, "GizziBall" (by Billy Beane).

Chen can't be signed -- he has no proven ability to play 3B, so it'd go against the off-season direction.
_Jordan - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:34 PM EST (#3812) #
The Bruins are my second favorite NHL team and I was always curious about all the Celtic banners in the old Boston Garden.

Ah, now there we part company; the Bruins never did much for me. They were always the team that the Canadiens knocked out of the playoffs like clockwork every year -- the Washington Generals of The Forum.
Gerry - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:49 PM EST (#3813) #
Another ESPN note is they are dropping John Sickels. John can now join the ex-ESPN club that many posters here are members of. ESPN are said to be concentrating more on their relationship with Baseball America.
_Ryan B. - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:51 PM EST (#3814) #
- Boston wins the world series :)
- Randy Johnson pitches a perfect game :)
- Barry Bonds hits #600 :)
- Carlos Beltran breaks post season HR record and the bank :)
- Carlos Delgado plays last game as Jay :(
- Free Agent market price Toronto out of the world, settleing for second rate free agents, thus ruining the chances of J.P being remembered as a great G.M. :(
_Rich - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 02:58 PM EST (#3815) #
Rob's notion of statistical analysis as objective isn't altogether fair. We've spent the past two days arguing largely about what set of statistical measures best define our new DH's worth as a ballplayer:

OPS? OPS+? VORP? ISO? RAR? WinShares? OBP?

Every single one of these has been mentioned. Every statistical measure has it's own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to player evaluation, and in even then they tend to do a better job of describing past performance than they do in predicting future performance. There is also more to a player than his raw numbers, and if there weren't than JP would be willing to give Gabe Gross a job north of the border.
_percussionist - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 03:18 PM EST (#3816) #
Class of 2006...I'll get back to you.
Mike Green - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 03:28 PM EST (#3817) #
Another ESPN note is they are dropping John Sickels.

All I can say is that I hope somebody else picks him up. Sickels' prospect analysis combines tools and performance evaluation in an agreeable mix.
_dp - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 03:53 PM EST (#3818) #
Feng would be a great pickup- precisely the type of guy the Jays should be using at DH/corner OF/1B.
_Jordan - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#3819) #
Sickels, I think, is proof that scouting and sabrmetrics can co-exist, extremely successfully; I'm not sure what ESPN is thinking here. Hey John, would you like a gig north of the border? :-)
Named For Hank - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#3820) #
the Washington Generals of The Forum.

I've always wanted to get a Washington Generals jersey. Maybe I should demand that from Dudek when Hillenbrand exceeds all expectations.
_Speedy Creek - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:39 PM EST (#3821) #
For me this is weird Blue in SK. I thought I would be the only one that visits this site that new about the games at Taylor Field. It was always cool to see Sask version of the Green Monster. The games were fun to goto because there were alot of local SK boys playing against the Jays bench players and some from the minors.

I graduated in Moose Jaw (south hill) as well but it was in 89. Good to know I am not the only one freezing today.
Gitz - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 04:58 PM EST (#3822) #
I doubt Sickels will have a difficult time finding more work. And he wasn't really doing much work for them, anyway. Of course, we don't know the whole story. Maybe Sickels himself wanted out, to devote himself more to his own projects, spend more time with his family, take up scrimshaw, etc. Whatever the case, got a bit dimmer.
_Vernons Biggest - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:03 PM EST (#3823) #
New article on SkyDome improvements. Not much anyone doesn't already know. COMN.
Also, the countdown is on until Spring Training.
_John Northey - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:17 PM EST (#3824) #
Left high school in '88, then watched the Dodgers and Kirk Gibson on my dad's old b&w 3 inch tv that I took to university. Also saw Ben Johnson run into history, once with his legs and once with his urine test. Free Trade was the big political issue up here while George the first won in the states. The Jays were good, but not good enough.

University ended in '92 with the Jays finally winning it all.
Dave Till - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:24 PM EST (#3825) #
I graduated high school in 1979. I don't have that many baseball memories of 1979, as I didn't really become a serious baseball fan until 1983 (when I discovered the Baseball Abstract and the Jays started to contend).

I remember that the Expos narrowly missed out on a division title, and I remember sitting in the north grandstand at Exhibition Stadium on CHUM Teen Nights. Admission was $1, and there was much youthful obnoxiousness on display. :-)
_Magpie - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:49 PM EST (#3826) #
Pisser giving out my age, but oh well.

You think you've got problems?

Uh... let me put it this way. Reggie Jackson made the Dodgers cry....
_actionjackson - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 06:54 PM EST (#3827) #
Turned 18 in Sept, 1987, graduated in '88. I'm going to claim these 2 years. IIRC, 36 players hit 30 or more homers in '87 and only 5, including Fred McGriff did so in '88. Uh, what happened? Anyone have any explanations or theories regarding this huge shift?

Of course, right around my birthday there was all kinds of exciting baseball being played. Then Madlock broke Fernandez' elbow with a vicious slide well outside of the baseline. How do I know this? His elbow broke because it landed on the seam between dirt and rug, which was an extra hard surface. F***'n Mad Dog! Then Whitt broke his ribs and we were truly toast, losing the last seven straight, including the clinching 1-0 loss at Tiger Stadium, with Frank Tanana beating our world beater, Jimmy Key, and Garth Iorg grounding out meekly in his final MLB at bat to seal the deal. I think it was more painful than the '85 collapse against George Brett and the 24 players he was piggy-backing to a World Series.

1988, enter the DH controversy and Bell hitting 3 HRs off Saberhagen on opening day, (and going 5-for-5 on day 2), and just 18 HRs thereafter as the Jays stumbled in a daze through another Jimy Williams 'led' season. The only job in baseball that man should ever hold again is as Bobby Cox' 3rd base coach, yet they keep hiring him. New blood please!
_Wes - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 07:07 PM EST (#3828) #
I grew up in St.Catharines and in the summer of my final year of High School, 1997, Vernon Wells, who was born in the same year as me, patrolled Center Field for the Jays Short Season Class A team.

Home plate in the Stompers home ballpark, (they were known as the St.Catharines Blue Jays when I was a kid) was not more than 30 yards from the back door of my high school.

I actually went to check out a few games by myself to see what all the fuss was about.

I believe he led the NY Penn League in HR that year.

_actionjackson - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 07:09 PM EST (#3829) #
Correction to my previous post. 'Only' 28 players hit 30 or more homers in '87, while 5 reached this number in '88. Trivia time, the prize is just the enjoyment of sifting through yesteryear's numbers. Name the 3 players who hit 30 or more homers in 1987 and 1988.
Pistol - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 07:17 PM EST (#3830) #
Of course, we don't know the whole story. Maybe Sickels himself wanted out

Given that ESPN paired up with Baseball America not too long ago this isn't all that surprising.

Hopefully it doesn't change his own work. I always look forward to his Prospect Book (which coincidentally I ordered this week).
_Erin - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#3831) #
Mick, yeah, I'm class of 2004. I'm majoring in sport management in college now, and it's my dream to work for the Blue Jays.
_Tanner - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 07:49 PM EST (#3832) #
I graduated in '94, which was painful enough for the cancelled WS, which was made worse by the fact that my two favourite teams (Yankees and Expos) were on track to meet in the Series. I was looking forward to seeing the Yankees there after they had sucked for most of my life as a Yankees fan (since 1986).

That year I also remember walking into my girlfriend's place to pick her up for the prom and seeing a police chase featuring a white Bronco on TV.

IIRC, 94 was also the year that the PEI Senators started in PEI, and the year I started following the Sens.
_Hartman - Friday, January 14 2005 @ 10:51 PM EST (#3833) #
Well AJ

1.Daryl Strawberry (39 & 39)
2.Mark McGwire (49 & 32)
3.Jose Canseco (31 & 42)

What do I win?
_actionjackson - Saturday, January 15 2005 @ 12:28 AM EST (#3834) #
Hartman, as I stated in the post, the prize is the enjoyment of sifting through the numbers of yesteryear. Also, to reflect on what might have been in the case of Strawberry and Canseco and what was in the case of McGwire. At one point, all three appeared to be solid locks for Cooperstown, but I guess we can never predict these things. I wonder what kind of numbers they would have put up with 2005 rules. We now know that McGwire and Canseco were juicing, and Strawberry seemed to be ingesting every other kind of substance, so why not those of the performance enhancing variety? Any idea why the huge offensive spike of '87 and the sudden drop-off of '88? I'd love to hear some theories, but this thread looks dead.
_AWeb - Saturday, January 15 2005 @ 01:06 AM EST (#3835) #
I've always heard the 1987 spike in offense was due to a change in the baseballs, which made sense to me as it's something that could change one year and then back again the next. Must've made them harder that year. I do remember that year was freaky. I think runs dropped by 15% or so in 1988.
_Dunny - Saturday, January 15 2005 @ 01:09 AM EST (#3836) #
All-Ontario hockey, broads, and Labatt Crystal

Life is/was simple in Grey-Bruce
_AWeb - Saturday, January 15 2005 @ 01:22 AM EST (#3837) #
As for memories, I specifically remember Colorado winning the Stanley cup after I had cheered for the nordiques for years. Although Patrick Roy made it tough..always hated him before.

Baseball in 1996...pretty dim year. I do remember Hentgen in his last start (I think it was his last start...) winning and getting the Cy Young that year. The announcers kept repeating all game how he needed to win his 20th to get it. Of course, Juan Guzman was about the best Blue Jays starter I could remember seeing, ever, at that point (Clemens showed up soon after). He was almost unhittable so often, I was sure he'd throw a no-hitter that year. Jays go 74-88 with the top two ERA+ guys in the league. But when Otis nixon leads the team in BA....
_Fozzy - Saturday, January 15 2005 @ 02:18 AM EST (#3838) #
Patrick Roy made it tough

Damn him; he was my childhood idol. Unfortunately, after he was traded, he was also the first player that made me wonder whether I really loved the team, or its star player.
_Blue in SK - Sunday, January 16 2005 @ 07:03 PM EST (#3839) #
Speedy Creek ... heh ... I reckon' most on the site have no idea of that reference. Well, that's 2 from the Saskatchewan.

Freezing...whaddya talking about. It warmed up to -47 (with the wind chill yesterday) :)

Nothing like dreaming of Spring Training starting in a month or so, especially when you it will be May before we can even think about softball season.
_Mick - Sunday, January 16 2005 @ 07:22 PM EST (#3840) #
Whattaya talkin' about? We play softball close to year round here in DFW. Painr the ball orange and suck it up!
_Blue in SK - Monday, January 17 2005 @ 12:35 AM EST (#3841) #
Mick - we do have the occassional winter snow-pitch tourney, and on those occassions when we do have an orange ball so you can find it in a snowbank.

The only problems is the snowshoes get in the way when you're trying to steal a base or track down a flyball. (Just kidding about the snowshoes, but the tournament is coming up).

I just had a buddy down to Houston for the holidays, says it was a blistering 25 degrees celsius (or 80 degrees to you southeners). How do you cope? (I need a green envy emoticon)
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