Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
John Sickels hosted the first ever community mock draft yesterday. The mock draft lasted for 5 rounds - a total of 170 picks.

Each of the 30 major league teams had a scouting director who was in charge of running the show - discussing pro and cons of players among the 'scouts', ranking players, and ultimately pulling the trigger on the picks.

I was the Blue Jay scouting director.

Predraft work:

Heading into the draft most of the discussion was focused on the first pick, mostly because the 2nd pick was so far away that it was really hard to guess who would be around. That and if you discussed who you liked with later picks there was a good chance you'd be pointing out to other teams who the good players were (or at least the players you wanted).

Part of the process of coming up with the list, at least in my mind in running the mock draft, was to be as realistic as possible. So because of that I felt that a HS player would only be taken by the Jays that high if he was a 'no-brainer' pick. I didn't feel that Maybin quite fit that, so I dropped him from consideration, although many 'scouts' thought Maybin should have been in the top 6. The other adjustment that was made was to move Romero up over Pelfrey based on signability - Pelfrey is a Boras client and we didn't want to deal with that hassle when the two pitchers were very similar.

After some discussion a top 6 list was finalized and looked like this heading into the mock draft:

1 Upton
2 Gordon
3 Zimmerman
4 Braun
5 Romero
6 Tulowitzki

The top 5 teams of the draft would decide who the Jays would take at the 6th pick.

For the final three selections (86, 116, 146) I focused solely on college players. To get a feel for what players might be available at that point I consulted with the Baseball America Top 200 prospects and the top 181 prospects over at Brewers Fan.net. While I used both lists I relied a little more on BA's list.

Any college players that were in the BA top 50 I assumed that I had no shot at drafting at #86. So from there I ended up with approximately 30 pitchers and approximately 20 hitters to focus on.

From there I went to my spreadsheet of college stats to find players I liked. I wrote about 7 pitchers I liked and 7 hitters that I liked in earlier draft threads. These 14 players would be among the players that I was going to target during the mock draft. My concern was that a lot of these players wouldn't even make it to the Jays third round pick. Chase Headley, for example, was #128 on BA's list, but from the chatter on Sickels' site it seemed like he might not even make it out of the sandwich picks.

Since my focus was entirely on college players I ended up with a draft board of 75 pitchers and 42 hitters for a total of 117 players. While HS players weren't on the draft board I did have a separate ranking ready in case there were any that dropped considerably - although I didn't anticipate that happening. I expected that at least 30 high school players would be taken prior to the third round pick.

As with most drafts, picks are made on a 'best available' basis. However, when going over the list of hitters and pitchers there were considerably more pitchers on the draft board (75 vs 42) and of those players I had 16 pitchers to just 6 hitters that I really liked. Given that, and the Jays need for hitting more than pitching at this point, I anticpated having to perhaps reach a little bit in the third round to land a hitter I liked. In the case that the first pick was Romero it would be almost certain that the 3rd round pick was a hitter - hopefully Eli Iorg the OF from Tennessee or Brian Pettway the 1B/OF from Mississippi. If I stuck to the draft board there was a possibility of ending up with 4 pitchers.

Draft Day

Barring an injury to the top 6 players the draft board wasn't going to change, so I checked on the college games in the College World Series to see how some pitchers fared. Nothing seemed unusual. Ricky Romero had one of his worst starts of the year against Arizona - 6 runs, 4 earned in 6 innings with 3 Ks, 2 BBs, and 2 HRs allowed. Kevin Slowey outpitched Mike Pelfrey on Friday night - there's no chance Slowey will make it to the third round now. Matt Maloney, a 4th round target, pitched decently against Oklahoma. One of my 5th round targets, John Meloan of Arizona, pitched pretty well against Missouri.

From there I ate breakfast (mmmm, blueberry pancakes), went to do some laundry (have to wash the softball uniform - game tomorrow!), and grabbed groceries in the middle of laundry (no cookies left??). This is normal for a scouting director on draft day, right?

The draft started at 1pm CST time. Sadly I had to double check to see that was indeed 2pm EST.

And we're off! Not surprisingly, Upton and Gordon went 1-2 to the Snakes and Royals. The Mariners followed the game plan and took Troy Tulowitzki. The Nationals then took Jeff Clement in the first surprise of the draft. The Brewers followed up that pick with Mike Pelfrey.

The draft board told me to select Ryan Zimmerman, so I entered 'The Blue Jays select Ryan Zimmerman, 3B, Virginia' in the message field and hit submit. Sickels then confirmed the pick and pats on the back were made all around the room. A look at Zimmerman's stats:

Ryan Zimmerman, 3b, Virginia
6'3", 210 lbs, 9/28/84
Bats: R - Throws: R
Baseball America Rank: 9

Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg     BB   K
2005	228	0.399	0.474	0.592	29  13
2004	249	0.361	0.395	0.454   11  18
2003	221	0.308	0.340	0.376   11  28

Zimmerman really turned the corner last summer as he was the best hitter on Team USA, and then continued that this season. He also reportedly has gold glove level defense at 3B. And one thing I hadn't noticed until now was that he rarely strikes out. He's also one of the youngest college players in the draft.

Here's how the first round played out:

First Round
1. Diamondbacks  Justin Upton, SS, Great Bridge HS
2. Royals        Alex Gordon, 3B, Nebraska
3. Mariners      Troy Tulowitzki, SS, Long Beach St
4. Nationals     Jeff Clement, C, USC
5. Brewers       Mike Pelfrey, RHP, Wichita St
6. Blue Jays     Ryan Zimmerman, 3B, Virginia
7. Rockies       Luke Hochevar, RHP, Tennessee
8. Devil Rays    Ricky Romero, LHP, Cal St Fullerton
9. Mets          Cameron Maybin, OF, TC Roberson HS
10. Tigers       Craig Hansen, RHP, St John's
11. Pirates      Andrew McCutchen, OF, Fort Meade HS
12. Reds         Ryan Braun, 3B, Miami
13. Orioles      Mark Pawelek, LHP, Springville HS
14. Indians      C.J. Henry, ss, Putnam City HS
15. White Sox    Wade Townsend, RHP, Rice
16. Marlins      Cesar Carrillo, RHP, Miami
17. Yankees      Chris Volstad, RHP, PB Gardens HS
18. Padres       Brian Bogusevic, LHP/OF, Tulane
19. Rangers      Jay Bruce, OF, West Brook HS
20. Cubs         Jacoby Ellsbury, OF Oregon St
21. Athletics    John Drennen, Rancho Bernardo HS (Beane throws chair)
22. Marlins      Michael Bowden, RHP, Waubonsie Valley HS 
23. Red Sox      Trevor Crowe, OF, University of Arizona
24. Astros       Lance Broadway, RHP, TCU
25. Twins        Matt Torra, RHP, UMass
26. Red Sox      Colby Rasmus, OF, Phenix City, Alabama
27. Braves       Cliff Pennington, SS, Texas A&M
28. Cardinals    Tyler Greene, SS, Georgia Tech
29. Marlins      Taylor Teagarden, C, Texas  
30. Cardinals    Cesar Ramos, LHP, Long Beach St

The third round pick was at #86 so there was a lot of time on my hands after the Zimmerman pick.

As I mentioned earlier there were 14 players that I was focused on for the third round pick. I figured they were realistic options as the highest ranked player (using BA) was Eli Iorg at 75.

From pick 55 to 64 six of those fourteen players were taken (Iorg, Headley, Costanzo, Owings, Pettway, Slowey). I guess I'm not the only one looking at stats.

Midway through round 2 I wrote down about ten names that I was interested in for the pick at #86. For awhile none of those players were taken. Then at the end of the second round pitchers Chris Mason and Matt Garza, my two highest ranked pitchers, went off the board.

That left me with three players that I wanted with the third rounder (anyone else I would have considered a reach): Matt Green, the pitcher from LA-Monroe, Garrett Olson, the lefty from Cal Poly, and Clete Thomas the Auburn OF.

The third round began and as each pick was made I got a little more excited that I'd get one of those three. Finally the Brewers picked and I was left with all three players. I quickly wrote in Matt Green's name, hit submit and pumped my fist knowing I got a player I wanted. He's a little old, but he's certainly a power pitcher with ideal size and worth a shot in the third round. Check out the stats:

Matt Green, Lousiana-Monroe
RHP, 6'4", 185 lbs, 1/5/82
Baseball America Rank:  81

Year	 Inn	ERA	K/9	BB/9	HR/9
2005	105.1	2.65	12.1	2.2	0.3
2004	 72.0	5.25	 9.0	5.1	0.9
2003	 48.0	5.25	 8.3	6.4	0.6

On an unadjusted basis Green had the second best fielding independent numbers in the draft (behind Matt Torra who went in round 1).

I had now selected one hitter and one pitcher so there wasn't a big need to go in one direction or another. At this point I liked pitchers Lewis and Nicoll, OF Thomas and C Bell, both from Auburn. I was also toying around with taking Auburn's closer Michael Nix as the Jays have a history of taking closers and converting them to starters.

As soon as I write that and check back at the draft Lewis and Bell were both taken at 99 and 100. The Jays pick is at 116. Then Clete Thomas went at 103.

That leaves me with Nicoll, and possibly Nix, so I had to dig up some more names. There were a number of hitters after that to look at. Mike Campell and Steven Tolleson of South Carolina, Ben Copeland of Pitt, and Mark Wagner of UC Irvine.

The fourth round starts and Nicoll makes it down to the 6th pick and I quickly make the selection. A look at Nicoll, who reminds me a bit of Casey Janssen, taken in the 4th round last year:

Chris Nicoll, UC Irvine
RHP, 6'3", 190 lbs, 10/30/83
Baseball America Rank:  121

Year	 Inn	ERA	K/9	BB/9	HR/9
2005	111.2	2.50	9.1	1.9	0.4
2004	 80.0	3.49	8.0	2.7	0.7
2003	 38.0	4.03	8.8	4.3	0.5

Three picks down, one to go. So far we have a stud 3B and two starting righthanders. The players at the top of my draft board at this point are the same ones I had prior to the Nicoll pick. Right now Ben Copeland, the Pitt OF is at the top of the board.

I also had a bunch of 5th round picks ready prior to the draft, but there's enough players falling that I might not have to use any. Anyway, here they are - they might be interesting to follow on draft day:

Danny Powers, RHP, Cent Missouri St
John Meloan, RHP, Arizona
DJ Wabick, 1B/OF, College of Charleston
Steve Pearce, 3B, South Carolina
Karl Amonite, 1B, Auburn
Brad Corley, OF, Miss St

As I wait for the final pick I'm thinking that Corley is the player to go with. He's struggled this year with a bad thumb, but hit 2 HRs in a game this weekend, and was tremendous last year. Prior to this year's college season he was a possible first round choice. Brewersfan.net had this to say:

Corley is a prototypical right fielder with his power at the plate and his powerful arm from the outfield.

Ok, we have a new leader on the draft board.

John Meloan went with the second pick of round 5 and Ben Copeland went to the Nationals two picks ahead of me in the 5th, but Brad Corley was available and I happily take his big upside - he led the SEC in OPS last year. Corley's numbers (he plays in an extreme pitcher's park):

Brad Corley, OF, Mississippi St.
6'1", 198 lbs, 12/28/83
Hits: R – Throws: R
Baseball America Rank: Not in top 200

Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg     BB   K
2005	247	0.312	0.363	0.441	 9   42
2004	245	0.380	0.442	0.678   17   44
2003	224	0.321	0.377	0.402   16   44

Wrap Up:

I was going to get a player I liked with the first pick regardless of how it played out, but to end up with Zimmerman was about as good as I could have expected.

The 3rd and 4th round picks were a pair of RH pitchers that I had focused on in the pitcher draft preview thread a couple weeks ago so I was excited to get those two. While Green and Mason were picked right around their BA ranking I liked them more than that.

With the final pick I went for a player having a down year due to injury, but with a lot of upside in Brad Corley.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased with how the draft went. I ended up with better players than I expected going into the draft, but I'm not sure Jon Lalonde has to worry about me taking his job yet.

I'd like to thank John Sickels for organizing and running the draft yesterday. It was certainly a fun event that I'd be more than willing to participate in again.

Community Mock Draft | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Craig B - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#118718) #
GREAT draft, Pistol! Corley's a stud with the bat who will come back from the thumb, Zimmerman's a terrific pick (as is Nicoll) and I'm intrigued by Green... he has a pretty good ceiling, throws hard and looks to be improving his control. Best thing about Green might be his size and athleticism - he's highly thought of.
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#118719) #
Thanks Craig.

I should have mentioned it earlier, but all of the rounds are up at Sickels' site if you want to see who went where after the first round.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/
Mike Green - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#118720) #
Well done, Pistol. We'll see how it goes tomorrow, and compare.
Craig B - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#118722) #
Corley was on my Pre-Season All-America team that I named over at The Hardball Times:

Outfield - Brad Corley, Mississippi State

Corley, who is an outfielder, team captain, and occasional pitcher for the Bulldogs, raked his way to a .380/.442/.678 season in 2004 (and made seven scoreless appearances on the mound for good measure). Corley is not a particularly patient hitter; his 17 walks and 44 strikeouts indicate a swing-first mentality, but it's impossible to argue with the results as he finished at #12 in the 2004 THT Hitters Ranking, cranking 19 homers despite a big pitcher's park (Noble Field is a very tough home run park) and a tough SEC schedule. Corley plays right field and he's no speed merchant; his value lies in the lightning bat. He was named First Team All-America last year by Baseball America and I would expect that to continue.

as was (in a bit of special pleading) Ryan Zimmerman:

Special Honorable Mention - Ryan Zimmerman, Third Base, Virginia

It's a tough crowd when you had the best summer season of any player in the country and you can't crack the All-America squad. But Virginia's Ryan Zimmerman plays the same position as our Preseason Player of the Year, Nebraska's Alex Gordon, and so Zimmerman is relegated to an honorable mention. For Team USA this summer, both in the warmup games and at the FISU World Championships in Taiwan, Zimmerman was simply unstoppable with the bat. He hit an incredible .468 for the National Team, but what's more impressive was that almost half of those hits went for extra bases, for final numbers of .468/.517/.805.

Zimmerman is also such a good defender that he beat out Alex Gordon for the third base job, despite the fact that Gordon is widely viewed as a good defensive pro prospect at third. Zimmerman accomplished this despite not playing particularly well for Virginia; while he hit .361, it was largely an empty average and his .630 adjusted offensive winning percentage was unremarkable. Zimmerman failed to crack the top 500 hitters in the THT Hitters Ranking. But all that changed in the summer, and Zimmerman was MVP of the FISU Championships and USA Baseball's Athlete of the Year. Look for him to build on that success and display added power to go with his golden glove in 2005.
Marc Hulet - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#118723) #
I participated in the draft as the Marlins scouting director and I had an absolute blast doing it, with 10 picks in five rounds.

I was able to get the top nine players I identified that I wanted, with Mike Costanzo being the only player that got away from me when the Reds overdrafted him.

16 Marlins Cesar Carillo RHP Miami-Florida
Very good stuff, great numbers, knows how to win, has excellent makeup, wants to play pro ball, played college ball in Florida

22 Marlins Michael Bowden RHP Aurora, IL
Great stuff, eye-popping numbers

29 Marlins Taylor Teagarden C University of Texas
Best defensive catcher in the draft, but will he hit enough to start?

34 Marlins Daniel Carte, OF, Winthrop
2004 Cape Cod MVP battled non-serious injuries this year, which depressed his numbers.

44 Marlins P.J. Phillips, SS, St. Mountain HS
Brandon's brother is bigger and stronger, very athletic.

64 Marlins Nick Weglarz, 1B, Lakeshore Catholic HS
I overdrafted this Canadian as a signability issue, although I really, really like his power and makeup.

79 Marlins Kevin Whelan, RHP, Texas A&M
Coverted from catcher recently and has made huge strides. Mid-90s fastball, slider.

96 Marlins Mike Bell, 3B, Grayson CC TX
I would likely follow him through the Cape and at the latest sign him next spring, depending on funds. Has drawn Aaron Hill comparisons.

126 Marlins Wade Miley, LHP, Lovenger HS
Hope he agrees to go to a junior college, but has signed letter of intent to play at Louisiana university.

156 Marlins James Avery, RHP, Niagara
A Canadian who has been called a smaller version of Roger Clemens by MLB scouting bureau. Nasty splitter is out-pitch

I figure with five picks in the first round (including supplemental round) the Marlins would be in tought to sign everyone.

I was impressed with Pistol's draft, especially when he got Corely in the fifth, which could have been the best pick that round.

I am really curious to compare this draft with what happens on Tuesday/Wednesday when the big boys get to play!

Gerry - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#118724) #
I was looking at past drafts, especially the JP years, looking for players who we expect to contribute at the major league level.

We have:

2002 - #1 Adams; #2 Bush
2003 - #1 Hill; #2 Banks; #3 Marcum; #9 Vermilyea; maybe #18 Roberts
2004 - #1 Purcey; #1 Jackson; #2 Thigpen; #3 Hill; #3 Lind; #4 Janssen

It looks like the Jays have a pretty good success rate with the top picks, but once you get past the top 4 the chances of success are very limited. when you select college players you know what you are getting at #1, but you also know what you are getting at #10, and that might not be so good.

Could the Jays take more high school players with the lower picks, or will those guys just go to school rather than turn pro?
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#118726) #
Gerry - I took a quick look through the BA database from last year and in rounds 5-10 there were only 6 HS players that were drafted and didn't sign (and 2 of those were from Puerto Rico, although I'm not sure if that means anything).

In 2003 there were only 7 HS players drafted and not signed in rounds 5-10 (and three were in round 10).

And interestingly, there were more college players in those rounds that didn't sign.

So if you draft a HS player in the early part of the draft chances are pretty good that you'll sign him. I believe most teams know which players will sign and which players will go to college prior to the draft, so those going to college aren't selected. And the ones that are selected and not signed are likely teams taking a flyer on a player that later in the draft because they were going to college and teams were hoping they could give them enough money to turn pro (although that's purely speculation on my part).
Mike Green - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#118727) #
Isenberg, 2003's #4 pick, has, in my view, a better chance ot make it than Danny Hill. Chip Cannon in round 8 may end up as 2004's sleeper.

I felt that the 2003 draft was a superb one at the time, and nothing that has happened since has changed that view. Tingler and Big Vito also have outside chances to make it to the Show.

Dean - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#118728) #
Great job Pistol, I too like your 5th pick, not thrilled with Nicoll and I think it would be a great pick to get Green @ #86. Zimmerman over Maybin is a tough call, I don't think you can go wrong with either guy.

Gerry, I almost fell off my chair reading your thoughts on draft strategy:)

Mike Green - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#118729) #
Dean, just to show that the tools vs. performance debate admits shades of gray, my reaction to the Zimmermann vs. Maybin question was exactly the same as yours. I would be delighted with either player, and it is a tough call. There would be nothing wrong at all with selecting Maybin.
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#118730) #
Here's Sickels' commentary on my draft

http://www.minorleagueball.com/

COMMENT: This certainly looks like a Blue Jays draft. Some teams regard Zimmerman as the second-best college hitter in the draft behind Alex Gordon, so having him fall to sixth could be a major coup for the Jays. Green is a solid pick in the third round, and given the stathead nature of most draft participants I'm surprised he fell that far. Nicoll is a solid college pitcher with mediocre stuff. Corley had injuries this year and could be a steal in the fifth round. A safe draft, with less upside than some of the others but with guys who should advance quickly up the ladder.
R Billie - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#118731) #
Gerry, I agree completely. There is value to knowing what you're getting in the first 4 or 5 rounds of the draft but thereafter the chances of finding a good player (i.e. a player that can make an actual impact in the majors) is so slim in both college and high school that it makes more sense to me to go with the best raw talent.

I'd rather spend my 10th round pick on a guy like Josh Phelps whose potential as a power hitter was unknown than perhaps a guy like Jayce Tingler, who don't get me wrong I like a lot, but has potential as a utility outfielder. Ideally you want your system to produce quality regulars, not extras. You should be able to find the extras readily enough on the free market.

But what it really comes down to again is whether you have the scouting budget and the quality coaching in the low minors to support worthy coverage of second and third tier high school talent and the time and resources to develop them. There isn't much in the way of impact high school talent that will move fast in later rounds unless you're talking about a guy like LaRoche who fell to the Dodgers for signability reasons.
Craig B - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#118734) #
Personally, if I'd been in Pistol's shoes I would have picked Cameron Maybin - sometimes a guy just has too much potential to ignore. That said, as Dean mentioned you can't go wrong either way.

Put another way, Zimmerman gives me Corey Koskie vibes, Maybin gives me Ken Griffey vibes. Zimmerman's a fine all-around player, and far closer to the majors at this point, but the chance of getting a guy with Griffey-like power would make me lean Maybin.
MatO - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#118736) #
Scanning over rounds 6-10 in the 1997 and 1998 drafts, by far the best pick was Tim Hudson in the 6th round of the 1997 draft. College players, up to now, were far more likely to reach the majors but we're not talking amy major talents here other than Hudson. In general, these rounds are a wasteland if you're looking for upside, whether the pick is from highschool or college and not much should be expected.
Thomas - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#118737) #
I agree with Craig and Mike. I'd have taken Maybin at #6. The chance for a high-impact bat like that is hard to ignore, and top-notch HS hitting prospects don't have nearly the flameout rate that HS pitchers do. It may take him a little longer to move through the system, but the Jays sorely need some hitting in the minors and a guy with the potential of Maybin would give them just that.

I really like Corley, too. I was going to commend you on that pick and state that I read a very positive report of him somewhere, and then I realised that was Craig's. If he falls a couple of rounds like he did here I hope the Jays take him, the injury doesn't sound serious but does appear to be the sort of thing that could have hampered him this year.
3RunHomer - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#118739) #
As an '84 grad of UVA, I only have this to say ... Wahoo Wa!
Maldoff - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#118743) #
Who jumped into the top 5 to allow both Zimmerman and Maybin to fall that far?

Honestly, I would love for either Zimmerman or Maybin, but would actually be upset with Romero, as the Jays already have a fair amount of left-handed pitching prospects, and Romero seems closer to the Banks/Marcum type, than the League/McGowan type.
Skills - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#118748) #
I agree with those on the Maybin bandwagon. Though Zimmerman would be a fine choice, the Jays farm system has largely been criticized (and rightly so) for a lack of high ceiling prospects or stars. While the system has good depth and several potential MLB regulars, few Jays prospects jump out at you, except maybe the injured McGowan and the struggling League. Moreover, the high ceiling guys are all pre-Ricciardi era, including the Jays best players right now, Halladay, Wells, Hudson, and Rios. I think now is the time to take some chances.
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#118750) #
I'm not sure I'd consider Hudson a high ceiling player now. He certainly wasn't when he was drafted late in the second day.

The first round of the mock draft is above, but Zimmerman fell because the Nationals took Clement and the Brewers took Pelfrey.
MatO - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#118752) #
Is Hill a high ceiling player? Is Purcey a high ceiling player?
Skills - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#118753) #
Well Hudson was never considered a high ceiling player, but he has clearly turned out to be an average (or if his defense is properly valued) or above average MLB regular. As for Hill, I really had not heard people talk much about his star potential until the last few months or maybe even weeks. You got me on Purcey though.
Skills - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#118754) #
Hudson was included mainly because he is a product of the Ash era.
Mike Forbes - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#118756) #
I've been on the Cameron Maybin bandwagon since last year. I'm very worried about tomorrows draft though. Ricky Romero is a solid prospect but he doesn't have the top end potential that we need. Plus we already have a logjam of potential back end starters. The pick would be better off used on someone like Maybin (If he's available) who has the potential to be a hall of famer if he realizes it. Hopefully all this Romero talk is just a smoke screen of some sorts and the Jays take quality and not just add on to a quanity.
Mike Green - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#118759) #
I considered Aaron Hill to be a high-ceiling player from the day he was drafted, and said so. It was clear that he could be a fine-fielding third baseman who might reasonably hit .300 with 20 homers, 80 walks and good speed. Carney Lansford, George Kell, Gregg Jefferies kind of player. Maybe a little more power. He's not there yet, obviously, but he just turned 23 in March.
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#118760) #
At BA there's talk that the Royals might take Maybin at #2 which would push Gordon to #3. It appears that the Nats are locked in on Zimmerman, and the Brewers appear to be a mystery, so it's possible that Tulowitzki falls down the board. And JP likes shortstops as he's gone with them 2 of 3 times in the first round. Could be interesting.

As for smokescreens, I'm not sure that it matters this year. I doubt that a team at the top of the draft, like the Brewers or Mariners, would take a player just because the Jays, or anyone else, were interested in them. If that's the case why even bother have scouts if you don't trust them at all. (It'd be a much different story if draft picks were tradable and someone could leapfrog you).

Now if you have a pick in the middle of the first round and there's team(s) with multiple first round picks on each side of you perhaps there's more to worry about.
MatO - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#118767) #
Purcey is a big lefty who can touch 95 and with a big curve. He was considered to be a high risk/high reward pick in that he had excellent stuff but mediocre control. It was definately an out of character pick for the control concious JP Jays.

To look at Hill another way, would anyone be surprised if Hill turns out to be a better player than either Wells or Rios?(not saying he will be). I think that sometimes the press gives us the impression that the Jays are drafting these slow lugs and it's a big surprise to see what terrific athletes Hill and even Adams are.
Pistol - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#118768) #
Here's a mock draft at MLB.com. They have the Jays with Romero, but throw in a line in the comment section that Tulowitzki won't make it past the Jays if he's at 6.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050606&content_id=1077784&vkey=draft2005&fext=.jsp
Paul D - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#118770) #
I'm curious, but why does everyone assume that Maybin has a higher upside than Zimmerman?

Is it just because he's a high schooler and Zimmerman is a college player, or is there more to it than that?

Sometimes I think people get too hung up on the high school = high upside, college = polished idea. I'm sure there are lots of high upside college players. (Although there are probably fewer polished high schoolers)
R Billie - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#118775) #
A lot of the upside from high school players is projection. Assumption that the player will develop a certain way physically because of his dimensions and a certain way mentally depending upon how advanced his feel for the game is already.

From college you generally have players who have played for three years and have had college level coaching and competition and some of their prime physical and mental development under their belts. You have a better idea about what they will look like but the perceived margin for improvement is smaller.

In scouting circles though, most of it is physical projection. This pitcher in 3 years will be 6'6" and 240 lbs and throw mid-90s on a downhill angle with good mechanics. This hitter will fill out his strong and wiry frame to become a real 40-homerun threat in addition to his already present extra base power and pure hitting skills.

You have a little more room to dream with high school players but there's just as much margin for error as there is for improvement. You can project a teenager to be a star based on his advanced tools but then end up with Raul Mondesi who never quite lives up to them.
Nick - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#118787) #
In regards to the Jays' possible draft strategy, I believe that JP has stated several times that they are looking for someone who can help soon. That would lead one to believe that Maybin would not be the right fit for what the Jays are looking for. However, I would think a major league GM would probably just be spouting cliches when asked about his draft strategy. So I'm not sure what to believe. I think the Jays will take who they feel is the best player whether it be a high schooler, collegian, pitcher, outfielder, infielder, catcher, whatever. With the #6 pick in the draft, drafting for a perceived need or ignoring a player because you "already have enough LHP prospects" is an absolutely terrible idea. Injuries, trades, and unexpected performances by prospects can change a team's perceived needs almost overnight. Get the best player - period.
HippyGilmore - Monday, June 06 2005 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#118789) #
I would personally be rather disappointed if J.P. didn't jump on Maybin if he's available with the 6th pick. His M.O. at the beginning of his tenure was to fill the farm system from top to bottom with prospects, something he's obviously accomplished. Now is the time to take some chances with some possible high impact talent. Looking purely at potential, Maybin obviously outclasses Romero and almost everyone else in this draft save Upton and Gordon. Romero will probably be good, but Maybin has a chance to be special, and I'd like to see that J.P. is willing to be flexible in his draft plan when the right talent falls into his lap.
Pistol - Tuesday, June 07 2005 @ 12:30 AM EDT (#118801) #

Not that I would really object to Maybin (and I think he'll go at #2 or #5 so it might not even matter), but I guess I'm missing where Romero doesn't have high upside. He's one of the best college pitchers on one of the best college teams, and he's still only 20 years old - he's the youngest college player in the draft (at least among BA's top 200 prospects)

As someone mentioned earlier I think too often everyone reflexively thinks of HS players as having high upside and college players being safe picks.

Going back to a thread I did a few months ago there wasn't any more success taking HS hitters over college pitchers in terms of top quality players (looking at players picked from 6-15 from 1990-1999). In that pool the top HS hitters were Jeter, Manny Ramirez, and Eric Chavez. The top college pitchers were Sheets, Zito, and Wagner. (And the top college hitters were Nomar and Helton).

In that pool of 100 players here's the breakdown of All Star quality players - players that might be deemed to have had upside in retrospect:

Draft	CP	CH     HSP     HSH    Total
> AS	 3	 2	 0	 3	  8
Total	28	22	23	27	100
% AS	11%	9%	0%	11%	 8%

CP= College pitchers
CH = College hitters
HSP = High School hitters
HSH = High School hitters
> AS = At least All Star level

People can talk about upside all they want, but if it the high upside high school hitters don't materialize into All Stars at a rate higher than college hitters or college pitchers it's just a label that doesn't mean anything isn't it? (Note that I'm focusing that comment on picks 6-15 - high draft picks, but not the highest ones.)

HippyGilmore - Tuesday, June 07 2005 @ 12:42 AM EDT (#118805) #
I'm basing my opinions on Maybin's potential more on Baseball America and the general consensus that he is much more projectable rather than any college/high school bias. While I certainly don't mind J.P.'s draft philosophy, and think it has been very successful so far, I still trust BA in terms of showing me who has the highest upside as far as draft eligible players, disregarding any high school/college distinctions.
R Billie - Tuesday, June 07 2005 @ 12:51 AM EDT (#118806) #
Taking into account sample sizes, with an approximately even distribution of college hitters/pitcher and highschool hitters/pitchers taken between 6 and 15 in the 90s, you got nearly twice as many allstars from hitters (whether college or high school) than you did from pitchers.

I don't know if that means anything but it seems to me that taking hitting regardless of age tends to be safer than pitching. That might be the only reason I would be leary of Romero over a hitter like Maybin, Bruce (considered by Arizona to be the best talent after Upton), or Clement.

But I have to agree I don't see a lack of upside in a lefty that has Chacin's repetoire (fastball/cutter/curve/change), command, makeup, and better stuff.
Pistol - Tuesday, June 07 2005 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#119004) #
A final tally of the mock draft vs. where the players were actually taken:

#6 Ryan Zimmerman, Virginia (#4 to Nationals)
#86 Mike Green, LA-Monroe (#49 to Diamondbacks)
#116 Chris Nicoll, UC Irvine (#82 to Royals)
#146 Brad Corley, Miss St (#59 to Pirates)
Community Mock Draft | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.